Getting Afghanistan Online 182
Velcroman1 writes "Imagine living in a country where only 3.5 percent of the population use the Internet. When you ask a neighbor about Facebook, they give you a confused look. Posting a status update on Twitter is a foreign concept, and most citizens still rely on printed newspapers and radio reports. That's life in Afghanistan today, where only 1.5 million people (out of 30M) have Internet access. A new National Social Media Summit intends to change that trend. To be held September 22 to 23 in Kabul, and featuring some 200 speakers, the event will promote the use of social media as a way to not only discuss current news, but to make news. The summit, called Paiwand (or Unity), aims to boost Net use further. It will break out into several themes including social media and government transparency, new media trends and emerging tech."
Tempting (Score:5, Funny)
When you ask a neighbor about Facebook, they give you a confused look. Posting a status update on Twitter is a foreign concept, and most citizens still rely on printed newspapers and radio reports.
Almost makes it sound worth the constant threat of bombings, shootings, and oppression by the Taliban.
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If most Americans were to get their news from what passes as newspaper or radio these days, we would probably be in an even sorrier state.
Internet journalism isn't a whole lot better, but there's not a limited amount of it, so at least there's no editorial staff to completely suppress a story. And it's more of a dialogue, so at least there's a potential for bullshit to be outed as such.
Again, I'm not saying the internet magica
Re:Tempting (Score:5, Insightful)
well the local newspaper is as good as the local tribal leader lets it to be.
in other words it's pure shit. that's why getting them online matters. that's why getting everyone online matters.
because that's the a way to get them out of their highly localized dictatorship dystopias. now their life is just what the local guy with most guns and dope for his gunmen wants it to be(and unfortunately those guys aren't very industrious - and making things better for their community would make them have less power...).
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well the local newspaper is as good as the local tribal leader lets it to be.
This is true. Whether the local tribal leader is named Jamaludin Badr or Rupert Murdoch.
Re:Tempting (Score:5, Insightful)
Except Ropert Murdoch has no means to compel you to stay away from competing publishers — neither by banning the competitors nor by prohibiting you to buy their wares.
And that is the key difference between a government-provided service (whether it is news, education, health care, food, shelter, or entertainment) and a privately-provided one.
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He can simply buy them all, or collude with them.
For what I see BBC which is the government option, is actually better than the private sources. This odd state of affairs occurs too regularly for my like.
In theory you would be right, but reality and theory rarely line up.
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And that is fine — as long as the competition remains possible to both produce and consume.
Though BBC is the government option, they do have competition, which forces them to stay on their toes.
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Do you know what a monopoly is?
I highly doubt that is what keeps the BBC being the BBC. I am sure NPR is not doing this for competition either. You are projecting. Competition and the quest for the almighty dollar forces you to stay on your toes, not everyone is motivated by the same forces.
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Both the BBC and NPR have had recent scandals. Someone needs to watch the watchers.
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Indeed, but the private media is more interested in twerking than doing that. The dailymail which has admitted to making up stories is now the most visited internet site for news. Do you expect them to be able to watch the other news sources, if they can't even be expected to only report things that actually happened?
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Then that is exactly, what their consumers want. You — as most other fans of big government — seem to hold this arrogant opinion, that you "know better" than the little men. While this may very well be, in fact, true, you should not allow yourself (nor the government) to force things upon these contemptible doofusen.
All you can (morally) do, is try to ensure, those among the subjects (yourself
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People want made up news? Are you even reading what you are typing?
Fraud is what you think people want? Then why do they even claim to be a newspaper? Why not just publish fiction as fiction?
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People want entertainment. "Made up news" certainly fits. Michael Moore's "documentaries" were anything but, for another example. Though his international awards were in the "fiction" categories, he got rave reviews — and millions of viewers — anyway.
They seem to be doing fine whatever label you put on them.
I wish, you did — and concentrated on the point I'm making, which is, once a
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Whatever label? Are you aware of what fraud even is?
I disagree, I think the public has a right to news from a source that might even try to print news. If we followed your thinking we would soon be in a corporate feudal state.
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MSNBC/ABC/NBC/CBS/Fox/NPR still has viewers/listeners; so yes people want made up news.
Most people don't want their bubble burst. Political affiliation doesn't matter.
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"Fiction" vs. "non-fiction".
Yes, I am very well aware, what "fraud" is. "Made up" news can be called that in anger, but it really is not — it is not any more illegal for the newspapers to lie, than it is for politicians or, indeed, you and me. (Except under oath, of course.)
Really? A right? Is there an article in the Constitution (or whatever the supreme law is i
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So then claiming it is news and printing fiction is not fraud? Lying is saying the sky is red, Fraud is claiming that this is news.
Yes, a right. As in the public should be allowed to fund a news source that might print news.
You need to read more fiction it looks like, if you did you might know what a corporate feudal state would be. You might also realize we are running headlong towards that end.
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"fraud -- (intentional deception resulting in injury to another person)". The second somebody comes out with evidence of having been injured by the deception, the news outlet in question will be in serious trouble...
There is no ban keeping you from funding whatever your heart desires to fund. But you aren't satisfied with that, are you? You want others — to who
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How would you suggest taxes be collected?
A tribal leader? Like an elected representative?
I read lots of non-fiction. That is how I know where we are headed.
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My objection is not to how they are collected, but to how they are spent. Functioning government, defending the country from the foreign enemies and local criminals are the only morally-allowed expenditures of any funds collected through coercion.
People wishing for anything else to be available — be it for themselves or for somebody else — ought to pay on their own. Those unable to afford it (whatever "it" is) may politely ask others of charity, but non
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I disagree. The people can decide by voting and if need be moving to do what they will with tax money. We tried it your way once upon a time, we had a poorly educated society and rampant corruption. Limiting government to that degree is simply not feasible. Read "The Jungle" to learn more.
I was not aware the USA had a government controlled news-source. Other than the private companies choosing to be government controlled in exchange for access to those government figures.
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And just why would the same people, who wouldn't — much to your anguish — punish a news-paper for fraud, be willing to punish anyone else for same?
Even where voting is meaningful (and plenty of cynics would have you believe, it is a charade), commercial competition is far more effective. If I decide, I don't like Pepsi-Cola, I don't need to wait until the next vote to have the recipe change — I can
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The book was the about that time in history.
Yeah, why bother reading and critiquing when you can just fight straw men. Russia was a hellhole before the communists and after. Even today it has many of the same problems, they seem to love strongmen and dictators. Mind you they were communists, not socialists. Not sure why you mix those together. Must be easier for your little though experiment.
What do socialists have to offer? Look at Germany. Look at the nordic countries.
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Except Ropert Murdoch has no means to compel you to stay away from competing publishers - neither by banning the competitors nor by prohibiting you to buy their wares.
And that is the key difference between a government-provided service (whether it is news, education, health care, food, shelter, or entertainment) and a privately-provided one.
The first paragraph is true. The second implies that all monopolies are created by the government, and that all government services are monopolies. Which is obviously horseshit.
Also, the US government might suck at providing education, food or shelter, but it does a fine job of providing entertainment.
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(Watch your language, sir... ) Anti-trust laws in America are over 100 years old. I wish, they were applied more vigorously.
I can't think of a government-provided service, a competition for which is not strongly discouraged where not outright legally banned:
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Incredible as it may seem, the USA is only a tiny fraction of the world!
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This is an article about Afghanistan. Get used to it. Sorry.
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And Rupert Murdoch owns a very high proportion of the media in Australia - where i am. And we extradited him to you in the first place.
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The second implies that all monopolies are created by the government, and that all government services are monopolies. Which is obviously horseshit.
Almost all government services are monopolies. In fact it would be hardly fair for the government (with unlimited taxpayer funding) to compete in providing a service with a private business. Almost all monopolies are created by the government. It is very hard to find examples of true monopolies that arose in a fairly free market that lasted for any leng
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I have just realised that the average Afghani is of a higher intellect that the average westerner...
paging JonKatz! (Score:2)
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So smart that you are stupid. If you were to stop and think you would know that realised is correct, just not in your little corner of the world. An Afghani can be a unit of currency or a person from Afghanistan [wikipedia.org]. As for westerner, you might know of this great country but I do not so I do not capitalise it even though I do accept that [thefreedictionary.com] it is OK for you to do so.
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BTW, get your politics right, the Afghanis do not exclude girls, the Taliban do. You know, those guys that the US wants to help turn Syria into a Sharia state.
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I take it that you do not follow what is happening on this world. The US wants to support the rebels in Syria. That consists of the Taliban and Al Qaida. That is this planet. The Taliban is not a phenomena of one area. It has a much wider appeal. I am wasting my time trying to talk logically to some AC school kid who thinks he has an IQ.
IN the land of the blind (Score:2)
the man with AOL is king.
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Almost makes it sound worth the constant threat of bombings, shootings, and oppression by the Taliban.
Sorry to disillusion you, but i started using Facebook while i was living in Kabul in 06!
ORLY? (Score:1)
"When you ask a neighbor about Facebook, they give you a confused look. Posting a status update on Twitter is a foreign concept"
To be honest I'd like to live in a world which you describe...
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I don't use facebook, and posting a status update on Twitter is certainly a foreign concept to me too.
If that's what people think of as Internet, things have gone from bad to worse. If the trend continues, I imagine that taking a bus ride in the future means people randomly standing up and announcing things like "Fluffy had her ear wax removed" and "I bought new shoes". And the rest will applaud and pat their backs.
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Prime Directive (Score:5, Insightful)
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You know, after 25 years of using the internet ... some days I'm not sure I'm ready for all of it.
There's some strange stuff out there.
Re:Prime Directive (Score:5, Funny)
Citation needed... And maybe some example links.
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LOL ... my citation is Rule 34 [urbandictionary.com].
As far as example links ... I'm sure Google can help you with that.
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Yes, yes it is. :-P
Though, I'm sure if you're really jonesing you can probably track it down with Google.
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They use little boys as sex slaves over there, and they're no stranger to gory deaths. You can find videos of what the Taliban does with their goats on LiveLeak. They'll probably think the web is mild and prudish.
"What's this, tentacle rape? Ah so this Internet thing has some balls after all."
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But maybe many there are not ready for *all* the stuff on the net just yet..
I'm sure they will get their "O-Bay" up and running in no time. This will be their real time selling and buying of opium and heroin online. With the majority of buyers being CIA.
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You are right. We need someone to put together a list of sites that they can and cannot go to. I suggest putting the Taliban in charge of that.
Oh the humanity! (Score:5, Insightful)
Posting a status update on Twitter is a foreign concept
(silently wipes a tear away from his eye)
Also, twitter being an American company, is foreign to damn near ALL countries. As a concept, it's still weird to most Americans even.
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So when Angela Merkel or Vladimir Putin post on Twitter, you think they're doing it for Americans?
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They're life depends on people knowing they exist and lying to them.
Man, that sentence was easy to mis-parse. I read it as:
Their life depends on people knowing they exist and knowing that they are lying to them
not what you probably intended:
Their life depends on people knowing they exist, and on lying to the people.
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Get off my lawn! (Score:5, Informative)
Imagine living in a country where only 3.5 percent of the population use the Internet.
That's not hard for anyone who is old enough to remember the 1980s. The internet as we know it today is a pretty recent development for most of the population. Before 1990 or so pretty much no one outside of academia had internet access.
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How to end all terrorism (Score:3)
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Nice (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Nice (Score:5, Insightful)
Giving people the ability to connect to world and understand people from other parts of it is key to peace just about anywhere? When you understand that people are people everywhere, it's far more difficult to get the general populace revved up against some great enemy. People fear the unknown and in the absence of contrary evidence, anything can be said. Now granted, it may have a more limited impact since the Internet itself is perceived as Western, but having people be able to communicate more freely is rarely a bad thing when it comes to trying to prevent popular support for attacking others.
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No, there are a whole bunch of people who, when exposed to "the world" and cultures that do things differently, want to destroy them and smash them, not understand them. They are seen as an immediate threat to their way of life. You've forgotten the Buddah statue in Afghanistan? How about all the other "World Heritage" sites that have been defaced or destroyed? How long do you think it would take for the internet to be blamed as the "root of all evil" and its users persecuted and beheaded? Hell there are so
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I never said it would fix everything, I said it would help reduce fear and reduce conflict, not stop it. There are and will always be people who don't like anyone being different from them. As you even pointed out, we have that in the US just as much as anywhere else, but fundamentally, that is based on fear of the impact of others. Communication and relationships are what make it so that other people aren't monsters and aren't unknown.
Yes, there will still be problems, yes, there will ALWAYS be people w
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Only liberals think that some diseases can be "cured" with a healthy dose of education and horizon broadening.
Nah, it's a subset of liberals, mostly the ones young enough to have not had their ideals squashed by reality over-and-over -- it's just that when the Boomers were that age, they garnered so much press with their antics that the whole Left was painted with the reputation long-term. Now the vast majority of liberals know better; we still want to help people, but very few over age 30 still think it's just a matter of setting people straight.
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Precisely how many wars have we had directly between nations that have cheap, easily available international calling in the last 50 years? Also, international calling failed to connect people internationally en masse. It may have allowed for it, but it was too difficult and expensive to meet and socialize with people from other parts of the world. That isn't the case with the Internet. I have friends throughout the world in just about any area that has Internet access. I have access to information abou
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Also, don't get me wrong, I still think war will exist. Governments will do what is in their interest to get power and wealth, but they will do it more against the will of informed people. Just look at the number of wars that America has been involved in that had little to no popular support. It also won't stop some people from being insurrectionists, but removing the fear of unknown and the ability to spread uncheckable propaganda is certainly a significant benefit in limiting it.
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Actually, it could be the answer to violence. How many militants go off to fight for the lack of a keyboard to sit in front of and be a tough guy on the internet? How many bombs will sit, half built, while the builder deftly slays the infidels on the internet with his clever trolling? How many will lose the will to fight today when they rail over injustice only to find themselves pointed at snopes?
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Well yes, exactly, and I guess what I would say is, they are absolutely right. While exposure to the internet doesn't make everyone lazy, doesn't diffuse all disagreements and redirect all anger, and certainly, not by any means, does it correct all ignorance.... but exposure to it does increase the likelyhood of spending more time in front of the glowing nipple and less down at their cut rate magic show (seriously, most of those guys don't even bother to learn any tricks anymore, they just claim some other
No problem (Score:2)
A conference about web-driven technologies, held in a country where they shoot girls for daring to leave the house or go to school - no way that'll be a target for the Taliban...
God help them. (Score:3)
"Imagine living in a country where only 3.5 percent of the population use the Internet. When you ask a neighbor about Facebook, they give you a confused look. Posting a status update on Twitter is a foreign concept, and most citizens still rely on printed newspapers and radio reports." ... And life is good.
Seriously, if bringing the internet to Afghanistan requires telling people about how hard life must be without twitter or facebook then you fail. The internet is more about breaking borders and giving people access to information they otherwise could not get locally. Not endless self serving and attention whoring status updates.
Airdrop a Sat Com station?? (Score:2)
What kind of range could you get from airdropping a shipping container with half sat com and half "civilian contractors"?
is Power and Water a more or less solved problem (for areas with a decent number of folks) and how much of your time would be spent TroubleShooting the locals as apposed to the local network?
Junis emailed to say hello (Score:2)
Those of us who have been here for twelve years have fond memories of JonKatz posting about Junis [slashdot.org], who hid his "ancient Commodore" (one of four in the village) under the boards of a chicken coop. And of course he was obsessed with Linux, mesmerized by open source and Slashdot, and all of that was totally plausible.
Shine on, Junis and the Slashdot of yesteryear. Shine on.
Afghanistan so far removed from China? (Score:2)
When you ask a neighbor about Facebook, they give you a confused look. Posting a status update on Twitter is a foreign concept, and most citizens still rely on printed newspapers and radio reports.
This could also be said about China, although they do have their own in country Twitter knock off that does get used and is subjected to heavy government censorship. About all a Chinese person can tell you about Facebook, if they've heard of it at all, is that they are officially blocked from using it.
Are the Afhans better at math? (Score:3)
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To do what? (Score:2)
56.9 % of the male population are illiterate and 87.4 of the female population.
They can't just watch cat videos all day.
Message from Kabul (Score:3)
From 12 years ago
http://www.tech.slashdot.org/story/01/11/17/204207/Message-from-Kabul [slashdot.org]
An open information society is inevitable. I was a little surprised last week to receive a forwarded e-mail from Junis, who lives in a small town 35 miles southwest of Kabul. This weekend, a movie theater and video store opened up again in Kabul (rentingIndependence Day), Afghan TV cranked up, and so did the Net. Americans understand all too well that our techno-driven culture produces wonders and dangers, but it's one of the most popular social and political forces in the world. Passion for pop culture relentlessly undermined repressive governments like Poland, East Germany and the former Soviet Union. The world, it turns out, really is porous now. Technology and information will squeeze through every closed nook and crevice. The Taliban never made a dent in the attachment this Afghan programmer and his friends had for it.
When his message came, the Taliban had just fled, Northern Alliance soldiers had taken over his village, and everybody rushed to barbers to cut off their beards and to nearby holes and hiding spots to dig up their Walkmen, VCRs, TVs, CD players, and -- in Junis's case -- his ancient Commodore, one of four in the village. Cafes had popped up all over, with impromptu dances and parties everywhere.
Junis's e-mail -- routed to Kabul, then Islamabad, then London -- was a reminder that there are civil liberties, and then there are civil liberties. Computers had been banned under penalty of death by the Taliban (except for the Taliban themselves), along with music and TV. Junis, a computer geek obsessed with Linux, had first e-mailed me years ago while I was writing for Hotwired. He was genial and obsessed with American culture. He loved martial arts movies, anything to do with Star Wars, and rap. He was perhaps the Taliban's prime kind of target. (Now he's furiously trying to download movies he's missed and is mesmerized by open source and Slashdot.)
"I could still see the dust of the pick-up trucks carrying the Taliban out of my village," he wrote, "and some friends and I went and dug up the boards of a chicken coop where I had hid the computer. They might have beaten or killed us if they'd found it. It was forbidden, although they used computers all of the time." He claims American commandos are skulking around dressed as Northern Alliance tribesmen.
Junis describes life under the Taliban as brutal, terrifying and profoundly boring. What the people in his town -- especially the kids -- missed most was music, posters of Indian and American movie stars (he'd kept his own decaying poster of Madonna), and American TV. Junis missed the fast-changing Web and sees, he says, that he has fallen "forever behind," and that programming is more complex than ever. But at least "Baywatch," which everyone in his town acutely missed, is back, and there's already a lot of talk about "Survivor." Junis predicts "Temptation Island" will be the number one show in Afghanistan within a month.
If the world needed another demonstration of America's most powerful weapon -- not bombs or special forces but pop culture -- it got it again this week. People all over the planet fuss about whether this healthy and democratic or corrupting and dehumanizing, but people's love for American techno-toys, TV shows, music and movies is breathaking. Watching TV pictures of tribesman on horseback, it's easy to forget that technology reached deep into this culture as well. Junis says phone service around Kabul remains spotty, but reporters, U.N. workers and foreign soldiers are wiring up. He's already made his way to some sex sites, and wishes he had a printer.
There are many computers in Afghanistan, Junis said, many in clusters in cities like Kabul and Kandahar (news reports have frequently mentioned that Bin-Laden's organization used both e-mail and encrypted files to communicate). Computer geeks are already hooking up with one anot
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Sounds great, but give it 20 years and see how it looks =)
Technology is a double edge sword. Right now its in the hands of the oppressed good villagers. When their governments and corporations or businesses get their hands on the same technology. People will wonder at the change in landscape.
Well this allegedly happened 12 years ago.
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The most recent news I read about Internet connectivity in Afghanistan was that it was still a grass roots movement done by amatuers and not corporate yet. Many Taliban recruits (young teens) basically sending messages back to their families and other random users throughout the countryside. Have not read to many positive stories. Than again I do not pay particular interest to the state of affairs in Afghanistan. I'm sure the same story from above still rings true in some cases. Someones got their secret or buried computer. I wonder if the U.S. has taken to searching everyones computers for "encryption" or "taliban social media?" who knows.
Well I've just ordered a 10mbit fibre to be installed in one of my Kabul offices, replacing the existing sat connection. If it goes well, will order another 1 or 2.
Of course Kabul is not Afghanistan. But it's not Somalia either, computers are available, mobile phones are available, the internet is there.
And do they care? (Score:2)
Since Afghanistan's literacy rate was 43.1% among men in 2000, I wonder if they could care much at all.
And if you're wondering why I don't mention the literacy rate among women, you know so little about Afghanistan that you should be reading XKCD instead, where your ignorance is anticipated.
No, the Afghans don't much care about the Internet. Those who do are either the problem, or will be disposed of if the Taliban regain control.
Good OLPC territory (Score:2)
This sounds like excellent territory for the Linux based, programmer friendly, free software "One Laptop Per Child" project. The lack of expensive computing power and Windows integration reduces its usefulness for games and expensive or pirated software, they're surprisingly robust, their power consumption is minimal, and their brilliant use of LCD technology makes the batteries last far longer and be far easier to recharge in what is effectively a third world nation.
Quoting from the website for OLPC: "Th
Re:Priorities? (Score:5, Funny)
In a country, where people are dying like flies from all sorts of preventable causes, and where illiteracy, ignorance and fanaticism are rife, will they REALLY welcome this?
I thought we did?
Oh, you're not talking about the US?
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In a country, where people are dying like flies from all sorts of preventable causes, and where illiteracy, ignorance and fanaticism are rife, will they REALLY welcome this?
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. And that's all they've got right now, because they were seized by a theocracy and went from the center of learning and knowledge to... well, take a look.
Oh -- and pearls before swine, and all that.
You can at least water the horses that will drink.
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The internet can tell you how to grow food or clean water. It can also help you find like minded individuals so you can stand up to those who want to shoot you in the face.
That sort of post is the utter ignorance that might be why some groups want to blow us up.
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People have been dying of dysentery for even longer.
The internet is one way to cure ignorance, try reading something informative. If you have no one to teach you about clean water and electricity production then the internet would be a great place to look.
Get off the internet if you find it so detestable.
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I think the idea is that if you give people first world problems, they won't have third world ones.
It think there is a step about underpants and profit in there too, but I could be mistaken.
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Who said getting them online was to help them? Facebook demands more users! More cheap page hits for the empire!
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Like not being able to read or write, for a start. Nearly 90% of women and well over 50% of men can't read or write. The internet's not going to be much use to them!
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I'm just guessing here, but there's probably some education broadcasts on the internet somewhere...
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The vast majority of the country is illiterate, so how will they find the educational broadcasts? Their main educational need at this point is to ensure they're allowed to teach one another regardless of gender, and when it comes to basic literacy, being IRL tends to work a whole lot better.
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He's posted a lot of Fox News links recently but they're a small percentage of his submissions overall.
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Just ignore facebook. Instant 99% reduction of noise on the net. Just like AOL of old.
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AfghanistanOnLine? Then again, the people everywhere else using the same languages (there are quite a few [wikipedia.org]) might not be terribly thrilled at a Westerner inflicting the equivalent of Eternal September on them.
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