Google Buys Home Automation Company Nest 257
JDG1980 writes "Google just announced that they will be purchasing Nest, a company best known for their 'smart' thermostats and smoke detectors, for $3.2 billion in cash. What will this mean for Nest devices going forward — greater integration with Android, perhaps?"
Track your every move (Score:5, Insightful)
What they'll do is track when you're home, what temperature you like your house, whether you're cold at night, etc, and then use it to advertise at you. Isn't that what Google does with everything?
Re:Track your every move (Score:5, Funny)
Google Buys Clippy:
"I see you are using your heater often. Would you like to purchase soft wool blankets from one of our highly-rated sponsors?"
Re:Track your every move (Score:5, Insightful)
Remember when it wasn't Google's fault that their street view cars intercepted your emails?
Nest uses your home network.
now it won't matter if you're on gmail or not.
Re:Track your every move (Score:4, Interesting)
CENTRAL SERVICES!
We do the work, You do the pleasure!
Google resents NSA intrusion, because it horns in on their turf...
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Stay cynical about google, yes, definitely, but don't bring up bullshit like the street view thing.
Re:Track your every move (Score:5, Funny)
http://i.imgur.com/xmBV4n0.jpg [imgur.com]
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Re:Track your every move (Score:5, Insightful)
You forgot "requiring Google+ integration for managing your NEST".
Re:Track your every move (Score:5, Informative)
Slashdot 2015: Google announces end of life for Nest products, citing low advertising revenue from the platform.
Oh, well, one gone, but three more will pop up hoping for that multi-billion buyout.
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I've been avoiding buying a Nest because of reports of sensitivity to RFI, RF, and ESD, and reports of really unfriendly failure modes: failure to heat when really cold; failure to shut off heating when away; these seem very serious to me. I really like the idea, but it seems the execution might leave a bit to be desired as yet.
I don't put ultimate faith in Amazon reviewers by any means (tho I r one, lol), but this is worth looking over [amazon.com]
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From comparative reading, it appears the HP one has the upper hand. It's still a bit rich for my blood but I may bite at some point.
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Honeywell.
Who have a lot of thermostat experience so makes sense.
Re:Track your every move (Score:5, Insightful)
Nor would the under $20 fully programmable, been around since dirt, standard as the day is long, conventional wall thermostat [amazon.com].
Come on for pete sake, turning on the heat when its cold is the job of a thermostat. They've been doing it since the 30s, and became programmable since the late 70s. Don't act so impressed that your thermostat actually worked.
You've paid in excess of 15 times what you needed to pay for program-ability, only to have it be totally dependent on the internet!
There's one born every minute.
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I think Nests are ridiculously overpriced too... But one cool thing is being able to turn on/off via phone app.. Can any of the cheap ones do that? I admittedly don't even program mine, I just literally turn it on and off.. (first winter in my new house, getting used to how often I turn it on and how high.. USUALLY I turn it off entirely at night..)
Re:Track your every move (Score:4, Informative)
Any thermostat can have a remote on/off feature.
Phone -> Web server CGI -> soft-relay on PCI card (or use an Arduino board) -> higher voltage relay wired to make/break certain wires between the t-stat and the air handler (usually a "split system" or a "fan powered box").
Wire colors:
Black is ground.
Green is fan on/off.
Red is electric heat on/off. Second stage is usually orange, also on/off.
Yellow is gas heat, can be on/off or analog (4-20mA, 0-10V, or 2-10V).
White is DX (direct expansion) cooling on/off. ("Direct expansion" means that the cooling effect is due to the expansion of compressed liquid refrigerant into gas in the evaporator coil directly mounted in the airflow without any heat exchanger mechanism in between. If you're not running a "chiller" and/or don't know what a chiller is, you probably have DX cooling. This includes pretty much all home air conditioners.)
DX cooling and electric heat should both have an internal interlock (in the unit, not the t-stat) preventing them from running if the fan isn't running. But be careful with cheap residential-grade units, the manufacturer may cut that corner to save money.
You'll probably need a 24VAC transformer (yes, AC, not a DC power supply) to drive the whole thing, which allows you to buy a cheaper t-stat. A small (small is good enough for a home system) 24VAC transformer should run somewhere in the $10-ish range at a supplier like Kele [kele.com]. I also recommend their line of IDEC pluggable relays. They mount nicely to DIN rail.
Re:Track your every move (Score:5, Funny)
See? It's easy! Anybody with an electrical engineering degree can do it!
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Quite the nice piece of adaptable hardware which has seen our energy usage drop ~15%. Of course it's impossible to say that was all Nest that can take the credit for that.
The Thermostat by H.L. Mencken, 1931 (Score:5, Interesting)
THE THERMOSTAT
Of all the great inventions of modern times the one that has given me most comfort and joy is one that is seldom heard of, to wit, the thermostat. I was amazed, some time ago, to hear that it was invented at least a generation ago. I first heard of it during the War of 1914-18, when some kind friend suggested that I throw out the coal furnace that was making steam in my house and put in a gas furnace. Naturally enough, I hesitated, for the human mind is so constituted. But the day I finally succumbed must remain ever memorable in my annals, for it saw me move at one leap from an inferno into a sort of paradise. Everyone will recall how bad the coal was in those heroic days. The patriotic anthracite men loaded their culm-piles on cars, and sold them to householders all over the East. Not a furnaceman was in practise in my neighborhood: all of them were working in the shipyards at $15 a day. So I had to shovel coal myself, and not only shovel coal, but sift ashes. It was a truly dreadful experience. Worse, my house was always either too hot or too cold. When a few pieces of actual coal appeared in the mass of slate the temperature leaped up to 85 degrees, but most of the time it was between 45 and 50.
The thermostat changed all that, and in an instant. I simply set it at 68 degrees, and then went about my business. Whenever the temperature in the house went up to 70 it automatically turned off the gas under the furnace in the cellar, and there was an immediate return to 68. And if the mercury, keeping on, dropped to 66, then the gas went on again, and the temperature was soon 68 once more. I began to feel like a man liberated from the death-house. I was never too hot or too cold. I had no coal to heave, no ashes to sift. My house became so clean that I could wear a shirt five days. I began to feel like work, and rapidly turned out a series of imperishable contributions to the national letters. My temper improved so vastly that my family began to suspect senile changes. Moreover, my cellar became as clean as the rest of the house, and as roomy as a barn. I enlarged my wine-room by 1000 cubic metres. I put in a cedar closet big enough to hold my whole wardrobe. I added a vault for papers, a carpenter shop, and a praying chamber.
H.L. Mencken
The Boons of Civilization
From the American Mercury, Jan., 1931, pp. 33-35
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When you're away from home for the weekend, and you didn't know when you'd get back. You can turn on the AC/Heat a couple hours before you get home. That way, you could go without paying for heating/cooling the entire time you're gone.
You could also do what most people have done forever - turn on the heat / AC when you get home and grab a blanket / fan while you're waiting for the house to heat up / cool down. Neat features, yes, but wholly unnecessary.
Re:Track your every move (Score:5, Insightful)
We have a Nest and love it.
I would buy one if there was a mode to "ignore any adjustment by 15 year old daughter."
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We have a Nest and love it.
I would buy one if there was a mode to "ignore any adjustment by 15 year old daughter."
lock the thermostat and adjust it via your phone or computer. Then she can't do a thing.
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lock the thermostat and adjust it via your phone or computer. Then she can't do a thing.
LOL keep dreaming.
Re:Track your every move (Score:5, Insightful)
I would buy one if there was a mode to "ignore any adjustment by 15 year old daughter."
lock the thermostat and adjust it via your phone or computer. Then she can't do a thing.
She probably has a key logger on my computer. But if not, she will just tape an ice pack to the thermostat.
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You'll be interested in upcoming Google+ features (Score:3)
We have a Nest and love it.
I would buy one if there was a mode to "ignore any adjustment by 15 year old daughter."
Now it might just be possible - with Google+ integration and the upcoming eyeNest (including a camera for user identification), you should be able to require face-unlock on the device. Just make sure your daughter isn't on your "Nest" circle.
Oh, and did I tell you about how the Nest circle works? Your Nest will cooperate with other Nest devices whose owners are in your Nest circle and vice-versa, and engage "social temperatures" suitable for the climate of your conversations will be automatically set. Sh
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Don't act like everyone's sensitive. Give it a few generations and the few of you there are will be bred out of existence. Please don't have any children.
Re:Track your every move (Score:5, Insightful)
And yet, Nest has a nice screen on it (not touch). Which can display ads while the thermostat is otherwise idle... what possible use could the homeover have to seeing the set temperature all day? Why not just use that idle screen space to display ads?
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No, we decide to whore out our homes with an indoor larger format billboard. Usually in the 40-60" range but sometimes smaller or even larger. Many people even pay a chunk of change for the opportunity to pay for the ads on said billboard.
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There's a strong possibility you (and others) think you're joking.
Many a true word spoken in jest.
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What they'll do is track when you're home, what temperature you like your house, whether you're cold at night, etc, and then use it to advertise at you. Isn't that what Google does with everything?
"???" "The toast is always burnt, stove/oven rarely used, but microwave runs for 10 minutes every day about 9 PM and all wash loads are done in Whites Cycle" "???"
"Bachelor - send him a bunch of singles site link ads."
Re:Track your every move (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Track your every move (Score:5, Informative)
Pretty much. [techcrunch.com] To quote the relevant part:
Will Nest customer data be shared with Google?
Our privacy policy clearly limits the use of customer information to providing and improving Nest’s products and services. We’ve always taken privacy seriously and this will not change.
If they had plans to keep Nest's data away from Google after the acquisition, they'd have said it plainly as they have with everything else they say. The fact that they aren't doing that here makes it pretty clear what their intent is.
I have a Nest thermostat and have loved it, but I'm actually kinda glad I ran into some financial issues that led to my cancelling my pre-order for Protect smoke/CO detector for my entire house. I definitely won't be buying them now, and I'll be seriously considering whether or not I keep my thermostat.
Re:Track your every move (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, all it takes is for Google to "unify" the privacy policy of Nest with the rest of the Google privacy policy.
And yes, they probably give you an opt-out, in which case your Nest becomes a dumb thermostat because access via the (now-defunct iOS version) smartphone apps and web access require accepting G+ and the new privacy policy.
(And note to Apple, Google and Microsoft - please, can you stop buying up companies that make apps and discontinuing the competing versions? I know it's probably good for business, but c'mon now. There's nothing wrong with seeing Google and Microsoft in the Apple App Store, Apple and Microsoft in Google Play and Apple and Google in Microsoft Store...).
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Wait, do you mean "defunct iOS version" because of your theoretical opt out or because of Android?
If the latter, Google still does tons of iOS apps, and IIRC, there were news articles showing that Google itself makes more money from its iOS apps than its own Android apps/system (yes, I know it's not entirely free.. if companies want to use the Google store, etc., they have to pay).
...about that... (Score:2)
I wonder what that means for their unholy pact with Intellectual Ventures that Nest made not that long ago. I swore off ever buying one of their products because of that, and will continue as long as that deal remains in force.
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I wonder what that means for their unholy pact with Intellectual Ventures that Nest made not that long ago. I swore off ever buying one of their products because of that, and will continue as long as that deal remains in force.
You'll cave in when your house tells you what's good for you and like it!
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When a structure starts talking to me in a literal voice telling me about what is good for >me is about the time I visit a doctor about needing some strong anti-crazy medication.... and a realty agent to get rid of the house.
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You'll cave in when your house tells you what's good for you and g+ it!
FTFY.
Now I need a new thermostat... (Score:2)
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Unless Google WONT be using the temperature I set it at for marketing purposes. I get enough robo-calls about solar, heating, etc as it is.
Really? I added myself to the do not call registry and no longer get any.
In addition, I mostly use google voice - which means that a lot of political calls go straight to spam instead of connecting to me, too. Thank you, google, for plugging the political loophole on the registry...
Kurt
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Google voice sticks me with two entry points, my GV number and my "real" number. Twice the opportunity to get spammed -- although, yes, the Google entry point gets very little.
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In Soviet Googlestan--- (Score:3, Insightful)
TV watches itself for YOU!
it also orders stuff on line you might like.
More targeted ads? (Score:3, Informative)
"We've noticed that you've been running your furnace a lot recently. Here's a list of insulation installers in your area that you might be interested in."
Have had a Nest for about two years (Score:2)
If you are worried about privacy, turn off your cell phones and computers. You've already been pwned.
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It is a great device and I know it has saved me money during long hot summers. If you are worried about privacy, turn off your cell phones and computers. You've already been pwned.
Just because you've been pwned, doesn't mean you can't get pwned even more. Like how losing your virginity doesn't mean you can't get screwed again.
Wait, a car analogy would be more appropriate (and relevant): Just because you've already had a flat tire doesn't mean you can't get another.
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Your argument would be more effective as a horse/buggy/whip analogy.
Whatever you're into, man. As long as it's two consenting adults ain't none of my business.
google + posts when your smoke detectors goes off (Score:2)
google + posts when your smoke detectors goes off just hope that it does not need to be on line to work.
$3.2B (Score:5, Insightful)
Ridiculous sum of money for Nest. Google is starting to look like a has been trying to buy their way to relevance like Microsoft.
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Given the market for Nest Protect is about 150 million times x3 (or more) in the US alone (and unlike thermostats, there is really currently nothing like it), it may not be that out of line. Especially since they need to be replaced every 10 years. And Nest now has a track record for fantastic products (who knows what they are working on next?)
Valuations are based more on predicted future revenue than current. Otherwise none of these recent IPOs or acquisitions would be worth *anything*.
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some of us aren't dumb enough to spend all that money for a thermostat. just weatherproof your home to keep the hot and cold air in depending on the season and don't worry about the avalanche of data or running your heater or AC before you get home
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Why do they need to be replaced every 10 years? Do you just mean "planned obsolescence", or something actually breaking/wearing out that that needs replacing?
Even if Google stops putting out software/fixes for it, I can't imagine a current one just stops working (as well as it currently does) in 10 years.
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Thermostat, not thermometer. DUH.
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Neither does Google. Paying this much money for such a small young company is pure speculation. Kindda reminds me of their YouTube purchase. Even though YouTube is quite popular, it hasn't been a big financial success for them, last I heard.
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Sorry, I'd like to help you but I prefer not to sully unsubstantiated claims with mere facts and figures.
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Thing is, occasionally the stars line up just right, and the Guys smart enough to charge anybody fifty thousand million dollars in one year's billings turn out to be right.
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Maybe they're just trying to ruin their return on equity (ROE), which currently is an unspectacular 16% [yahoo.com].
If they were following Microsoft's playbook, they might be trying to avoid expensive acquisitions so that their highly profitable company could achieve a very respectable ROE of 30% [yahoo.com]. Most of Microsoft's bad investments are organic, not acquisitions, e.g. Bing. In fact, I can't remember the last time Microsoft shelled out even a measly billion dollars for an acquisition. Losing money organically is real
How about a smart toilet? (Score:2)
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I mean, they already own the sewer treatment plants.
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Considering they already did measurements in some sewer systems to estimate that's city's cocaine consumption...
What would Google suggestion to you be: "buy bitcoin mining hardware / visit Silk Roak", or get "discount lawyers"
Smart Toilets are so 2005 (Score:2)
I'll be keeping mine (Score:3)
I'm willing to give Nest and Google the benefit of the doubt. Supposedly Nest has claimed in interviews after the news broke that their privacy policy is very strict and limits the info Nest gathers to Nest products only. If that is the case, and more importantly, their privacy policy doesn't change in the future, I'll stay a happy customer.
If there is evidence of Google doing evil, then it's easy to create an eBay listing.
Re:I'll be keeping mine (Score:4, Insightful)
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All EULA also contains clauses like "We can change the terms of this agreement at will." And once it got enough penetration, a letter/email looking a like a junk will be sent to you inbox/mailbox with a lengthy legal statement of the changes and guaranteed 99% will not ever read and remaining 99% will not care a damn thing.
In this country, we cook you like frog in slow cooker powered by fine prints.
Chromecast it (Score:5, Interesting)
If you lose your internet connection... (Score:2)
and Google can't grab information from your Nest, the unit will shutdown your furnace until you get that connection back up.
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It's no coincidence they're going to rename it the Chrometer
What's with the Doom and Gloom? (Score:5, Insightful)
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I own a warehouse and have to pay a security firm to receive emergency signals for freezing (pipes!) and smoke or overheating. I'd like to be able to monitor it myself.
That will require a Google+ account.
I think $3.2B is too much (Score:4, Interesting)
I own a Nest thermostat and while it's a great and innovative device I don't see the company being worth $3.2B. There are also a lot of other new Internet enabled smoke detectors coming out. I looked at their smoke detectors but in many jurisdictions they can't be legally installed since smoke detectors are required to have a hard-wire connection such that if one goes off they all go off. Since Nest does this wirelessly it's not allowed. They're also incompatible with all the other smoke detectors and alarm systems and are quite expensive for what they are. I looked into this since I just wired in a bunch of 2-wire (12v) smoke detectors into my alarm system. I picked up a combination smoke/CO detector with heat sensor that integrates into my alarm system for $80.
Now what would be cool is for someone to integrate a good wireless AP with a smoke detector though I think the smoke detector signalling should remain separate (at least here in California they require using special fire alarm wire for hooking up fire related stuff).
Re:I think $3.2B is too much (Score:4, Funny)
With the way valuations seem to be done nowadays, a bloody lemonade stand made from a sheet of plywood and a few 2x4s is probably going to be worth a few million bucks.
Re:I think $3.2B is too much (Score:5, Funny)
Only of you draw a cloud on it
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I don't care how you make your non-skeuomorphic ice cubes, they're worth another $7M because it's cool.
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There's always money in the banana stand.
Nest Smoke Detectors are Useless (Score:3)
Many areas of the country, i.e. California, require that for new installations that all of the smoke detectors be wired together using special wire. In my case I just installed a bunch of 2-wire smoke detectors that tie into my monitored alarm system. I had to use special fire alarm wire and the 2 and 4-wire smoke detector hookups are at least somewhat standardized (you don't want to mix brands though) as are the hard-wired AC smoke detectors. Nest wireless smoke detectors can't interface with other smoke detectors or alarm systems and they don't meet the hard-wire connection requirement between detectors. Many people in the Nest forums have complained about this. While it's cool it will help the Nest thermostat keep track of if the house is occupied or not until they provide the proper hard-wired hookups they're not even legal for new installations or even replacing smoke detectors in existing installations.
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Many areas of the country, i.e. California, require that for new installations that all of the smoke detectors be wired together using special wire. In my case I just installed a bunch of 2-wire smoke detectors that tie into my monitored alarm system. I had to use special fire alarm wire and the 2 and 4-wire smoke detector hookups are at least somewhat standardized (you don't want to mix brands though) as are the hard-wired AC smoke detectors. Nest wireless smoke detectors can't interface with other smoke detectors or alarm systems and they don't meet the hard-wire connection requirement between detectors. Many people in the Nest forums have complained about this. While it's cool it will help the Nest thermostat keep track of if the house is occupied or not until they provide the proper hard-wired hookups they're not even legal for new installations or even replacing smoke detectors in existing installations.
That's not exactly true. The law says that they need to be interconnected, and Nest Protects do amongst themselves using 802.11, or falling back to 802.15.4. The requirement that they be hard-wired was dropped a few years back. In essence, if you replace one wired detector with a Nest your should replace all of them...which gets Quite Damn Expensive since they can't interconnect with any wired device.
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I live in California, and I will do whatever I want. I just bought a nest protect because it looks cool, and want to try it out. It will be an improvement over my last smoke detector system (i.e. a baseplate with nothing in it). Even if the previous owner left the smoke detector, there would only be one of them.
The way I see it, my new smoke detector will be hard wired to all the other smoke detectors in the house (i.e. all zero of them), just like how the previous owners had it.
I'm really not sure if ha
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As I said they use special wire for fire alarms. Also, by law it is now required that every bedroom must have a working smoke detector. The last time I had a building inspector come around to inspect having my main electrical panel replaced he had to verify that there were adequate smoke detectors and that there was also a CO detector installed.
You also can't just use any old wire for the signalling for smoke detectors. At least with the two wire smoke detector setup like I use the central alarm will detect
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Perhaps even only Android (Score:2)
It will probably mean the lack of integration with any non-Android device.
Following Apple, again (Score:3)
Embrace, Extend, Extinguish (Score:2)
Now applies to Google.
Except, instead of buying competition, Google buys innovative companies with paradigm-shifting products, neglects them, and then kills them for lack of revenue.
Google is not evil, just negligent.
I'm torn (Score:2)
between spending those modpoints,
and saying the inevitable 'all your temperatures are belong to us'
dang!
Patent portfolio ? (Score:2)
Compressor destroyed, heat exchgr rusted + cracked (Score:2)
At least that built in microphone will be put to good use.
sign of the end of social networking hype.... (Score:2)
Is it me or did Google just kick off the Internet of Things [wikipedia.org] as the next big thing after social networking...with all these automation acquisitions in the last couple of months?
I'm beginning ... (Score:2)
I for one welcome... (Score:2)
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Obviously it means that the thermostats will be discontinued in a few years.
Your home will call you to let you know that it is burning down. It might go so far as to ask you if you wish to make a quick hotel reservation.
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You jest, but that would be a great feature. House burning down, auto call fire department, and also send you info to reserve a hotel room.
Re:It's a Google aquisition (Score:4, Interesting)
That would beat how long it took them to discontinue selling SageTV by "a few years".
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When the toilet is bricked, it's called "logged", or "backlogged". Wait long enough and it will be bricks, though.
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From Nest, Goolgle will diversify further into a likely burgeoning home automation craze.
Wi-fi-enabled-cellphone remote-controlled homes are the homeowner-have-to-have home improvement upgrade of the next few years.
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