Google Hit With Antitrust Lawsuit Over Default Search on Android Phones 221
itwbennett writes: "A class-action lawsuit filed Thursday (PDF) accuses Google of strong-arming device manufacturers into making its search engine the default on Android devices, driving up the cost of those devices and hurting consumers. The suit does not argue that device manufacturers entered Mobile Application Distribution Agreements involuntarily, but that the market power of Google compels them to. 'Because consumers want access to Google's products, and due to Google's power in the U.S. market for general handheld search, Google has unrivaled market power over smartphone and tablet manufacturers,' says the suit."
and yet... (Score:2)
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Installing this piece of software will remove it: http://software.opensuse.org/131/en
Did you mean in a VM or on the metal? (Score:4, Insightful)
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If I install GNU/Linux in a virtual machine, I still get Bing when I tab back to Windows.
Solution: Don't tab back to Windows.
If I install GNU/Linux on the bare hardware, I lose access to applications on which I depend that aren't usable in Wine.
Solution: Install GNU/Linux on the bare hardware, and then run Windows in a VM.
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Re: and yet... (Score:2)
What is Microsoft's market share in multi-window? (Score:2)
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What irks me is how hiding the Bing shit from Windows Update is never permanent.
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This is a class action lawsuit, filed by a couple lawyers from Iowa. It's not clear to me who is actually behind it.
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I'm reminded of the old "Company Computer Guy" skit that Jimmy Fallon used to do on SNL.
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Which is why I am nothing like that character. I actually explain most of what I have to do, in terms they can actually understand. I show them some of the things they can do so they won't have to call me for the simplest stuff (desktop changes or finding files they lost). Then I let them know that I realize they won't remember most of it, but the part they do remember will be beneficial.
I still don't let my customers have a dozen toolbars installed, coupon and save-a-dime search crap, or even WeatherBug.
Th
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I have worked with that guy.
We were working on something in a room full of execs and he says to me "I hope you don't screw like you type." to which I replied "I hope you don't dress up like Angelina Jolie."
One of the execs caught that he quoted Angelina's character in Hackers and busted out laughing.
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I also don't let them play with loaded guns, or drink bleach, or swim in the swamp out back.
Sorry if my level of concern for my customers' computers isn't in line with your personal beliefs. Actually, no, I'm not sorry at all.
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Did I say I have a problem with Bing. Bing isn't spyware. I prefer Google for myself, but to each his own.
I would ask the customer if they wanted to switch, and I recommend Firefox over IE. But if the customer is knowledgeable on the subject, I don't force my opinion on them. I simply explain why I prefer something else, and leave the decision to them.
As for Firefox, the only addon I always recommend is Adblock, with the Popup addition. I then show the difference between viewing imdb.com with Adblock under
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No. What I said was:
I also don't let them keep their favorite spyware and trojan horse programs.
You may read that "I also" to mean "Everything someone else said they do, I also do", but that isn't what I said.
In addition -- or if you prefer, also -- slashmydots never says he does this against his customers' wishes. He could very well mean they specifically ask him to remove Bing because they think it's a steaming pile of crap, and he valiantly toils away at fullfilling his customers' requests. Also, their search provider could already be set to Google or Yahoo or Ask, before they g
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OK. That's cool. Sorry if I sounded like an ass.
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You know, in Windows it doesn't matter what I set the default search to in IE, because MS soon changes it back to Bing somehow never having figured out how to retain a setting like that when they do an update to their browser. Also if i want to use google, then select the option use search suggestions in my results, then that search and those results are sent to ms and used to collect data about me and to improve their search results.
My only option is to refuse to use IE until they can learn how not to be h
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It wouldn't be relevant. Windows had a monopoly. Windows phone doesn't.
I don't think Android is big enough to be deemed a monopoly yet, but it's heading that way.
Windows Phone on the other hand is barely surviving, so doesn't need to worry about breaching any monopoly rules.
law is "Every person who shall monopolize ..." (Score:2)
Probably bbecause the Sherman Antitrust Act begins its primary list of prohibitions with ..." can't do the following things.
"Every person who shall monopolize
Section 1 has some restraint of trade stuff, but mostly it is about a) abusing monopoly power and b) improper actions in pursuit of monopoly power.
You might wish the law were different, but the law is in fact "every person who shall monopolize ...".
Oh the humanity! (Score:5, Insightful)
Because there is demand for a thing, business are forced to deliver it. Quick, someone stop it!
Re:Oh the humanity! (Score:5, Informative)
They already have done this. There were Android phones where Verizon was paid to have Bing as the default.
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" 'Because consumers want access to Google's products, and due to Google's power in the U.S. market for general handheld search, Google has unrivaled market power over smartphone and tablet manufacturers,' says the suit."
Businesses are giving consumers something they are demanding... so... what's the problem? Should we force businesses to give consumers something they don't want?
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The power of Google compels you!
The power of Google compels you!
The power of Google compels you!
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Re:Oh the humanity! (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:Oh the humanity! (Score:4, Informative)
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a requirement for joining the OHA is that a manufacturer can't make any non-OHA phones. lawsuit is arguing that manufacturers can't choose whether to join the OHA or not, because if they don't join they'll go out of business.
Can you clarify this for me? A quick google of htc and samsung show that they also make phones with Microsoft s phone operating systems. I expect there are more manufacturers who are not exclusively android when it comes to smart phones.
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that's the whole point. does sammy make a cyanogen phone? nope. Does HTC? Does Moto? nope. because according to the google agreement the manufacturers can't build any non-google android phones. similarly, they can't explore new phone strategies, like a phone that was partly subsidized by the carrier or ad supported. they can only do the one thing that google tells them to do, and that's monopolistic.
No, they cannot develop a phone based on Android and call it Android without passing certain criteria, of which the Google tools are one. They can develop and product based on Android and load it with whatever they want - Windows Store, Ovi Store, etc - and call it anything but Android and Google won't care - even if they also develop products based on Android that are fully Android certified which they do call Android.
And, that is perfectly legal as Google owns the Android trademarks and can license the
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Or Safari and all the other Apple apps on a Mac or iPad. In the 90's MS got bitch-slapped for doing something that's absolutely standard practice today. A consumer would probably be pissed if you installed an OS today and it DIDN'T come with some sort of standard browser and default search engine.
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I agree on IE, and would add Safari (Apple's default) to that too. I would love to see PC vendors and Apple be required to at least offer first-time users an option to install better browsers like Chrome or Firefox as their default.
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Apple owns both the hardware and the operating system. No one would complain if Google ships Nexus devices any way they see fit. The issue is forcing third party vendors who license Android and want Google's othe
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Big difference... first, of course is that Android is opensource. Don't like it, go make your own distro.
It is only in your dream. The version of Android sold on 98% of all phones worldwide is well locked and closed, thankyouverymuch.
Re:Oh the humanity! (Score:4, Insightful)
The version of Android sold on those phones is only locked by the phone manufacturer, not Google.
This is more like the car companies suing because they had to make cars that run on gasoline because gas stations primarily sell gasoline.
Lawyers looking for a payout (Score:5, Insightful)
Note that the plaintiffs are not the manufacturers, but two random owners of Android phones. This is nothing but lawyers abusing the U.S. legal system, trying to extort a settlement out of a big company.
When is the U.S. going to get around to tort reform?
Righthaven, for example (Score:4, Insightful)
Note that the plaintiffs are not the manufacturers, but two random owners of Android phones.
The legal system requires the plaintiff to be the party who has been harmed. If something mostly harms end users, then end users need to be named as plaintiffs. This is why Righthaven's lawsuits failed: the company refused to add the actual copyright owner to the lawsuit.
How is this anti-trust? (Score:3)
I am really asking.
Class action suit admits that customers only want google for search and would not be willing to buy a phone that searched with Bing. How is following consumer demand anti-trust?
There is a reason that everyone uses google and only google. Yes I know there are a couple people out there who use something else, but you are a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of the user base.
Also, I am not sure these guys know it, but Android is free to install.
Should google be forced to let you use their product to make money without getting anything in return?
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There is a reason that everyone uses google and only google.
The main reason is that that is the default search on virtually all computer and mobile browsers.
Of course it got to be the default search rather than earlier market leaders such as Webcrawler, Lycos and Altavista through quality innovations. But it retains it now through inertia, and because whilst other search engines are as good, none are a generation ahead. And that's what's needed to change an established monopoly.
Also, I am not sure these guys know it, but Android is free to install.
It's not really of interest to users, as they pay for a mobile phone - the BOM is not the
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
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For fuck's sake.... (Score:2)
It's just a friggen *DEFAULT*... unless the consumer can do nothing to change it, there should be absolutely nothing wrong with google being a default for search.
Apple has *WAY* more lock-in than this, and they aren't being sued (or at least anytime anyone's ever tried, Apple never seems to lose).
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Go ask Microsoft how that defense works out...
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Microsoft also had much more than just the default setting, including a history of abuse that Google's worst behavior is nothing like, and control of about 95% of the consumer and business computer market.
This case is nothing like Microsoft's case other than a company producing an operating system which defaults to their own products.
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They own a lot of others things from the ad platform to the maps applications, iTunes store, etc.
I was surprised they did not sue their pants off because of the iTunes store monopoly at the time.
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iOS was never a monopoly. Neither was iTunes store.
For sure you can only get apps for iOS on the iTunes store. But a monopoly is within a market, and a company's own platform does not constitute a market. For example there is no problem with HP enforcing use of their own ink cartridges, or Nintendo only allowing console games that have been published through them.
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Good! (Score:2, Insightful)
Good! I'm generally a Google fan, but the default Google search on my phone that I can't remove is annoying to say the least. The voice search garbage that nobody uses makes it even worse. I don't think I'd mind if I could just remove it... but the fact that its locked onto my screen top center and I have no way to ever remove it makes it seem an awful lot like IE was in XP.
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There are scores of free alternative launchers, all available in the market [google.com].
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You can "remove" it by installing an aftermarket launcher screen like Nova.
Just about every "default" app and function can be overridden with aftermarket apps.
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I agree, I used to press the stupid voice search button by accident all the time when trying to open the notifications area. I actually managed to remove it, but I had to root the device and find the right service to disable. The search bar is gone now but the space it used to occupy is still there, but empty now.
Rooting my device voided my warranty. This kind of crap is the same as what microsoft used to do with IE and windows.
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The voice search garbage that nobody uses makes it even worse.
Eh? Voice search is pretty much worthless, but the other stuff that comes with it is pretty nice. "Make an appointment for next thursday at 3pm: doctors appointment" is a lot easier than opening the calendar app and creating one by hand. If I have complaints with it, it's that it doesn't do enough thing (Why oh why can't I say: "call X on speakerphone"?).
And that's why a GNU/Linux phone needs to happen (Score:3)
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Which I solved by creating a new gmail account on the phone, and never using it.
Note that if you should ever feel the urge to email to plokjuy.gmail (I think that's how I spelled the account name), you won't get a response. Ever.
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Still, it's nice that you know the name of the account under which Google is storing all the information it's spied from your searches, browsing and physical movements.
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Why should I care about Google spying on me? If they don't get the info direct, they can get it from the NSA, after all.
Or GCHQ, I suppose....
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There are at least two AOSP flavours that offer nightly updates, Cyanogenmod and Omnirom. The slow updates on android are usually because the carriers want to lock you in to their set of apps/restrictions/spyware and insist on vetting updates. My t-Mobile Galaxy Note 2 has been running KitKat 4.4.2 for months, no thanks to T-Mobile. I would love to see a good GNU/Linux phone option. Maybe OpenBSD, where you make calls with a CLI...
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I really don't understand why they even bother. Approximately NO ONE EVER has said "Oh, I'm going to get a samsung phone, because touchwiz is so much better than regular android!" People who know one custom OS from another generally seem to rip it out as soon as possible and put in a different system, and the vast majority of customers only know it's not
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Also, the Android phone howls for a gmail account or it gets very moody
I've made hundreds of gmail accounts to deal with this problem. Every time a new phone comes in, new account with random letters.
Not all (Score:2)
"It argues device manufacturers enter such secret pacts with Google, called Mobile Application Distribution Agreements (MADA), because they know consumers expect to see a full suite of Google apps when they buy a device.
The suit does not argue that device manufacturers entered MADAs involuntarily, but that the market power of Google compels them to."
I've seen several Android devices without the play store. So obviously some manufacturers choose not to enter the agreement.
Well.... yeah? (Score:5, Insightful)
So... you buy an GOOGLE Android phone. You buy one that has GOOGLE apps preloaded, because you wanted them. But then you're upset that GOOGLE search is the default, and it requires effort to change that? .....what?
Nah, it's ok that Google is strongarming manufacturers to not include 3rd party apps that compete with Google's.
It's perfectly acceptable that Google is stripping away privacy features from their phones.
BUT DAMN IT I WANT MY CHOICE OF INTERNET SEARCH!!111eleventy!
*facepalm*
The stupid... it burns!
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Google is not as good as it was. I'm obliged to ask verbatim nearly every search, when it was the default.
Unfortunately, DuckDuckGo has stopped. (Score:2)
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Re:flame on! (Score:4, Interesting)
Also, the fact that it gives a different set of results to everyone based on what information they've spied about you is a big problem. No longer can you give a search term to someone else with the knowledge that if they do the search they will get pretty much the same results.
Duck Duck Go is useful for that reason too.
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Is there a better search engine than Google?
That depends on what your goals are. If you find anonimity important at all, then the answer is "all of them"
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Re:flame on! (Score:4, Informative)
I don't know about Bing. But duckduckgo is very anonymous.
https://duckduckgo.com/ [duckduckgo.com]
If you follow the links on the right side of the screen, they'll show you the many ways in which Google breach your privacy and they don't.
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Not only can you go to Duck Duck Go's website, they also host a hidden service on the tor network. So, if you want to search the internet without big business looking over your shoulder, they're a great choice... I like startpage.com, too.
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Re: flame on! (Score:2)
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Bing! [youtube.com]
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Lawsuit requests paid placement (Score:5, Interesting)
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Good luck doing that on iOS. Apple decides who gets bundled as default.
Re: Lawsuit requests paid placement (Score:3)
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So, like the "HTC First"?
Makers and carriers are fundamentally mercenaries. They'll do what will make them money. I suspect the real problem that Microsoft (who I assume is funding this lawsuit) has is that aren't able or willing to pay what it'd take to sufficiently compensate a phone maker to produce and market to c
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There have been multiple Android phones released with alternate search providers, both Yahoo and Bing. How many iPhones have been released with alternate/paid search providers? How many Windows phones have been released with an alternate paid search provider? It is trivial to change and the OS is open source. the same apps can and will work if they set up their own application store.
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If there's a condition in the OHA contract that all devices that ship with Google Play Store and Google Play Services must also murder nuns, Google would be doing something illegal too.
But they aren't doing that.
Making up something that might possibly be in a contract doesn't make it so and doesn't add anything useful to the conversation. Save that shit for your favorite conspiracy theory site.
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Anyone who is willing to outbid Google for being the default search engine for iOS devices is probably welcomed to do so.
http://appleinsider.com/articl... [appleinsider.com]
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How do you change the default search functionality in Android?
There is a google search bar in my phone (Android 4.4.2), which, if i tap, long tap, tap and tap menu button, and any other combos, won't offer me an option to change it.
There is also the Android browser, which defaults to google search AND google.com as the home, for which you have to go into "advanced settings" to change the default search provider (IE will ask you on first run).
There is also Google Hangouts now wanting to be the default SMS ap
Maybe... (Score:3, Insightful)
You should install Bing, Yahoo or other search apps?
I seriously doubt you are going to change the *GOOGLE* Search bar away from Google... But I bet you that the other apps have Widgets for their search services.
Re:I remember this with M$ (Score:5, Funny)
How do you change the default search functionality in Android?
Have you tried Googling for that information? :)
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How do you change the default search functionality in Android?
There is a google search bar in my phone (Android 4.4.2), which, if i tap, long tap, tap and tap menu button, and any other combos, won't offer me an option to change it.
I have a Google search bar on my phone too. It is a gizmo/widget app, and I can delete it if I want to. In fact, I just checked, and can slide to another page, and add a second one there. Then I can delete it. Because it is just another app.
Go find an app for your favorite search engine, install it, and put that gizmo on your phone's desktop. If such an app doesn't exist, that is not Google's fault.
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Yeah same here. Just because it is bundled by default it doesn't mean it cannot be removed from the desktop.
Re:I remember this with M$ (Score:4, Interesting)
All-or-nothing clause in OHA contract (Score:2)
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All they have to do is split their manufacturing division from their devices division.
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Is it easier or harder to find an OEM to make an iOS device for them? Is it easier or harder for them to reskin and rebrand windows phone 8 under their own name?
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And when you have Chicken stock on your phone, you are a messy cook.
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The "added cost" is bullshit. What they mean is they couldn't milk revenue from the search provider. But the thing is Google is banking on the OS development which is certainly not cheap. If it was the smartphone vendors would have forked it by now.
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Was it Apple, Microsoft, Yahoo, or one of the device manufactures operating the hidden hand behind the two people who filed the lawsuit?
The fact that the law company is based in Seattle should be grist for conspiracy theorists. On the other hand, as a law firm they do specialise in class actions suits against large corporations on a national basis, and most of them aren't Microsoft (or Apple or Yahoo) competitors, so maybe not.