Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
Networking Verizon Science

Groundwork Laid For Superfast Broadband Over Copper 93

Posted by Soulskill
from the now-your-plumbing-can-double-as-ethernet-wiring dept.
itwbennett writes: Telecom equipment vendor Adtran has developed a technology that will make it easier for operators to roll out broadband speeds close to 500Mbps over copper lines. Adtran's FDV (Frequency Division Vectoring), enhances the capabilities of two technologies — VDSL2 with vectoring and G.fast — by enabling them to better coexist over a single subscriber line, the company said. VDSL2 with vectoring, which improves speeds by reducing noise and can deliver up to 150Mbps, is currently being rolled out by operators, while G.fast, which is capable of 500Mbps, is still under development, with the first deployments coming in mid-2015. FDV will make it easier for operators to roll out G.fast once it's ready and expand where it can be used, according to Adtran. Meanwhile, Ars Technica has an article about how Verizon is letting its copper network rot in order to passively encourage customers to switch to fiber.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Groundwork Laid For Superfast Broadband Over Copper

Comments Filter:
  • by Anonymous Coward

    JC Penny has announced that they intend to start selling reversible underwear in an attempt win back customers who have converted to yoga pants.

  • In other news (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ArcadeMan (2766669) on Friday August 15, 2014 @06:19PM (#47681831)

    Users can now go through their monthly cap in under ten minutes.

    • by sgt scrub (869860)

      Nah. AT&T will have customers so over billed and locked down, until the pay for U-Verse too, they'll never a full speed connection.

  • Why bother (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 15, 2014 @06:22PM (#47681851)

    They keep coming up with faster and faster methods to deliver data and the ISPs keep artificially lowering speeds and data limits. As long as Comcast and the like run the show none of this will go to use for the end consumer.

  • by Anonymous Coward

    Why are we still flogging the dead horse?

    FTTH will always outperform copper, without exception, and it's gaining traction quicker than the telco would embrace G.Fast

    • by Anonymous Coward on Friday August 15, 2014 @06:30PM (#47681899)

      Because copper is already ubiquitous. It's literally deployed to every home in America. And outside of dense large municipalities (think small to mid-size towns), comprehensive FTTH deployment is not financially feasible. A copper-based broadband solution is the only short-term means to bring universal broadband to most places, and it shouldn't be overlooked.

      • by Bengie (1121981)
        But to get those speeds, they need to install a lawn wart, which costs more than just installing fiber. $200 of equipment can send 1gb/1gb over 80km of fiber. But instead we talk about $10k of equipment to send 500mb over 100m of copper. It's faster to deploy and a more familiar tech, but it's slower and more expensive.
    • Yeah well, let's see if fiber doesn't develop a serious case of cataract in 20 or 30 years. The stuff is still too sensitive. What was good enough for grandpa, and when you need robust.. and, when you want to transmit power over the same line, you have a hard time beating copper.

      • by dbIII (701233)
        It was good enough for grandpa but that was before those same wires that have been there too fucking long corroded. Nearly every time it rains I lose voice and dial tone and have a lot of ADSL dropouts.
    • by sjames (1099) on Friday August 15, 2014 @08:13PM (#47682403) Homepage

      Because for many, fiber is like hot fusion. It's been right around the corner for decades now.

      • by Sarius64 (880298)
        As long as the local governments continue to allow legal bribing from cable companies the consumer will continue to suffer.
    • What world do you live in? I want some of what you're smoking. Fiber isn't "gaining traction"; major players in the fiber market, such as Verizon, are sitting on their hands, intentionally stopping their deployments. If you don't have Fiber today where you live, don't hold your breath for getting it any time in the future, unless there is a major regulatory upheaval that ousts the lobbyists from having a stranglehold over the organizations in government that are supposed to be regulating them.

      Assholes. Veri

    • by Cyberdyne (104305) *

      Why are we still flogging the dead horse?
      FTTH will always outperform copper, without exception, and it's gaining traction quicker than the telco would embrace G.Fast

      In the long term yes - but the economics are very different short term. A couple of telco engineers could install VDSL2 (or, presumably, G.fast) for a whole wiring cabinet - a hundred or more households - in the time it would take to run fiber to a single one of those premises. Apart from anything else, it seems right now all the engineers a

  • distance, please (Score:5, Interesting)

    by swschrad (312009) on Friday August 15, 2014 @06:47PM (#47681989) Homepage Journal

    ALU's "10 gig copper" technology is something like 10 meters length. that's way out on the tail of the straight line of speed vs distance that's been pretty much unchanged since the days of ADSL 7 meg. if you can't get out of the shadow of the field cabinet, what good is it?

    show me 150 mbps at 7000 wire feet, and I will pester my engineers to buy a trainload of it. it's got to be pretty clever to beat what appear to be the laws of physics.

    • by TeknoHog (164938)
      This. Here, 100 Mbps VDSL2 has been a reality for a few years, but only for the lucky buildings that have fiber to the basement.
  • by raymorris (2726007) on Friday August 15, 2014 @06:51PM (#47682015)

    I learned on Slashdot that Verizon is evil for not investing billions in upgrading their network to fiber. Now you tell me they've already upgraded half of their customers to fiber. Since they ARE upgrading their network to fiber, that's now evil. I'm confused.
    I'm sure Verizon is evil of course, but are they evil for upgrading to fiber or for not upgrading to fiber?

    • by Solandri (704621) on Friday August 15, 2014 @08:10PM (#47682395)

      I'm sure Verizon is evil of course, but are they evil for upgrading to fiber or for not upgrading to fiber?

      Both. Their evil-ness doesn't stem from whether or not hey've upgraded to fiber. It stems from abusing their monopoly position to slow down upgrades (both fiber and copper) as a cost-cutting measure. If there were a competitor in the market offering DSL/FO/cable service and Verizon dragged their feet on upgrading to fiber or neglecting to maintain their copper, they would hemorrhage customers and lose a lot of money. But in most areas they have a (government-granted) monopoly. They can take their sweet time upgrading to fiber, and there's nothing their customers can do about it. They can let areas with older copper lines rot, and there's nothing their customers can do about it.

      Case in point, the city I live in was one of the first which contracted for Verizon to provide FIOS. They rolled it out to half the city, then got into some sort of disagreement with the city and stopped. If there had been a competing cable/fiber service, they would've had a huge incentive to resolve the dispute as quickly as possible and get back to work. But they were the only game in town so they dragged it out. For six years, the houses two blocks down the street had FIOS and I didn't. Then after an election, the city council changed, Verizon got what they wanted, and resumed rolling out FIOS.

      Meanwhile, the city I work in has Verizon DSL as the only provider of business Internet. Cable companies provide cable internet to residences, but apparently they're prohibited from providing it to business. So again, Verizon is the only game in town. They have absolutely refused to upgrade or maintain their copper lines. The fastest DSL speed we can get is 3 Mbps down / 768 kbps up. For this "privilege" we pay $100/mo. Most of the phone lines are of such poor quality they can't even get you that speed, and 1.5/512 or 1.5/256 is the best they can do ($50/mo). The service is such a poor value that most companies in the area just get the lowest-tier 1.0/128 service for $40/mo to minimize how much they have to pay for any Internet. Others have signed on to cellular companies' 4G data services and willingly pay per GB for overages - because it beats having to get reamed in the rear by Verizon.

      Both are evil.

    • by sjames (1099)

      Mostly because it's a decade overdue and they seem to be doing their damndest to make sure the fiber doesn't actually benefit the customer.

    • by rahvin112 (446269)

      Well that's your problem right there, you're a moron. No one learns anything on slashdot, people just come here to make stupid arguments and pretend this is a source of information instead of a chance to pretend you know more than someone else.

    • by evilviper (135110)

      Since they ARE upgrading their network to fiber, that's now evil. I'm confused.

      Verizon is evil for lobbying to make their FIOS service excluded from the regulations that covered their POTS lines. Trying desperately to force people onto the unregulated FIOS is just the cherry on-top.

  • by rogoshen1 (2922505) on Friday August 15, 2014 @06:54PM (#47682031)

    Interesting, the VOIP service is not regulated as a utility, and consumers have a bit more rights/protections with the copper service.

    Thanks Verizon! Attempting to kill off POTS is showing dedication and appreciation for your loyal customers.

    How much public money went into wiring up the country with copper anyhow? It's almost as if the telco's will take every single government handout they can get and will revel in their natural monopoly status. But when it comes to providing a basic service that they can't turn quite as much of a profit on? Drop it asap.

    • by turp182 (1020263)

      Verizon has a straight path to less regulation. Of course they are going to take it. Less regulation = less overhead, lower legal costs, lower operating costs, etc.

      The solution, in this case, appears to be additional regulation, regardless of how the service is provided. Require them to provide a minimum of 14 days guaranteed service during a power outage, if the wire is intact, regardless of how service is provided (this would of course include VOIP modems in homes, a reasonably sized battery could hand

  • It's all about wanting to get out of the local communications office (CO) business. It's a lot more efficient for them to dump those COs and all the maintenance headaches that go along with it including very expensive lead acid batteries and all the associated real estate that goes along with it. There's also maintaining the phone lines inside your house which can be problematic with rodent damage or house settling. With FIOS based services they drop it off at the house and your wiring inside the house i

    • by cdrudge (68377)

      Rot? Copper doesn't rot. It corrodes.

      From Merriam-Webster:
      1a : to undergo decomposition from the action of bacteria or fungi
        b : to become unsound or weak (as from use or chemical action)
      2a : to go to ruin : deteriorate
      b : to become morally corrupt : degenerate

      1b and 2a sound like they fit perfectly what Verizon is doing to their copper infrastructure.

      • by Virtucon (127420)

        Same source. More accurate term would be deprecation. 1b, 3a and b seem appropriate.

        deprecate
        verb \de-pri-kt\

        : to criticize or express disapproval of (someone or something)
        deprecateddeprecating
        Full Definition of DEPRECATE
        transitive verb
        1
        a archaic : to pray against (as an evil)
        b : to seek to avert
        2
        : to express disapproval of
        3
        a : play down : make little of
        b : belittle, disparage
        — deprecatingly adverb
        — deprecation noun

      • by sjames (1099)

        Meanwhile, 2b describes the company itself.

    • by Smerta (1855348)
      I always thought "CO" was Central Office, not Communications Office.
  • by clonehappy (655530) on Friday August 15, 2014 @06:57PM (#47682059)

    I'd gladly take fiber, if it were available.

    The problem is, it isn't for the vast majority of the population.

    Verizon and others are just letting the copper rot. There is no alternative. If you're lucky, you have a cableco co come in and provide a usable service. Luckily, I live in a Comcast territory and have had exactly zero service issues in the last 8 years and a speed increase every other year. Copper? Verizon sold this area to Frontier and you're still lucky if you can break one megabit on their DSL. Please, you wouldn't have to passively encourage me to get fiber if it were available. I'd already be on it.

    If the telcos weren't so busy spending every last dime on C-level executives, lawsuits, advertising, and slithering out from underneath their commitments, even good old Verizon could have rolled fiber to everyone in their footprint. Even the ex-GTE areas like mine that had a stellar copper network before Verizon consumed them and left them for dead.

    • by SeaFox (739806)

      Luckily, I live in a Comcast territory...

      I had to do a double-take at that point.

  • ... what about distance? I can't get DSL due to 20+K ft. distance with COs. Also, the copper phone systems suck even for dial-up (can never get to close to 53K speeds). :(

  • While I'll be the first to complain that FIOS has a hidden 15W+ tax (could be more than $20/year), which Verizon could easily have solved, the Ars Technica rant seems to be almost entirely about their 8 hour backup being insufficient and nobody having a clue how to deal with it.

    Verizon's FIOS ONTs operate on 12V batteries for backup, and even HAVE A JACK ON THE SIDE LABELED FOR 12V AUX POWER.

    A $25 (5W) solar panel, a diode, some wire and a few brain cells are the ONLY thing you need to give your FIOS servic

    • by evilviper (135110)

      Slashcode decided the first non-ascii character must be where the hyperlink should end. Bah!

      http://www.amazon.com/Instapar... [amazon.com]

    • by swb (14022)

      The cheap 5 watt panels barely maintain an unloaded battery charge. In most common angles and lighting you're gonna get maybe 2w.

      I use an only slight more expensive 15w panel and over a week it will bring my boat battery up from a mildly discharged state to fully charged. Worth the extra $75.

      • by evilviper (135110)

        The cheap 5 watt panels barely maintain an unloaded battery charge.

        That's nonsense. I've got a 1.5W panel quite effectively maintaining and even slowly charging a disused car's battery.

        I suppose in the depths of winter, far north, that might have some truth.

        • I'm way, WAY far north. I'm in Australia.

          • by evilviper (135110)

            I'm way, WAY far north. I'm in Australia.

            And? I'd bet that solar panels work just fine for you.

            Most of the southern hemisphere gets pretty good solar insolation, with only very few extreme exceptions, like Cape Horn and Antarctica. This is unlike the north, where large swaths of heavily populated land-area are sun-poor, like the top-half of North America, and nearly all of Europe.

      • by evilviper (135110)

        Also, for an extra $75, you should be getting at least a 50W panel:

        http://www.amazon.com/ALEKO-50... [amazon.com]

        Or maybe even 75W:

        http://www.amazon.com/ALEKO-75... [amazon.com]

  • I don't get the point in these super-super-fast speeds over copper. In the UK right now we're aiming for FTTC which leads to speeds of 20Mbps - 50Mbps. 50Mbps should be enough for anyone. :-)

  • by Jaysyn (203771)

    I'm currently working on a project for Cox Communications in which they are chemically dissolving the foam inside of the coaxial cable conduit & then air blowing fiber through the newly created space inside the conduit. Pretty cool stuff. This avoids the costs associated with permitting, digging new trench & burying separate fiber conduit & they can use the DWDM hardware they already have on hand instead of buying new systems like this.

    • Interesting, do you have a link or search term that goes into detail about the process? Thanks.

      • by Jaysyn (203771)

        Oddly enough I wasn't given an actual name for the process & this (Arizona) is apparently the 1st system in the US to try this out on a large scale basis.

    • by Cyberdyne (104305) *

      I'm currently working on a project for Cox Communications in which they are chemically dissolving the foam inside of the coaxial cable conduit & then air blowing fiber through the newly created space inside the conduit. Pretty cool stuff. This avoids the costs associated with permitting, digging new trench & burying separate fiber conduit & they can use the DWDM hardware they already have on hand instead of buying new systems like this.

      Wow, that is neat. (At first, I misinterpreted that as dis

      • by Jaysyn (203771)

        It's for both, the distribution to the cabinets will be fiber as well, but not necessarily using existing coax.

  • That would be great if they actually offered Fibre in allot of areas where they only offer copper line service. The fact that they refused to roll out fibre 15 years ago when it became feasible and put the breaks of the monopoly of the cable companies being just about the only credible broadband providers. I call broadband at least 10Mb/sec down. xDSL for the boast part is not really broadband when most of the time you are lucky to get in the range of only 3-4Mb/sec or at best a single HD stream with lit

The clearest way into the Universe is through a forest wilderness. -- John Muir

Working...