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Invasion of Ukraine Continues As Russia Begins Nuclear Weapons Sabre Rattling 789

Posted by Soulskill
from the in-case-you-were-feeling-optimistic-today dept.
cold fjord writes Russian President has issued a stark indication of Russia's military capabilities: "I want to remind you that Russia is one of the most powerful nuclear nations. This is a reality, not just words." According to News.com.au, "It's the first time in more than 25 years that Moscow has raised the spectre of nuclear war. The difference this time is that its tanks are already pouring over its western borders." To put numbers behind that, "Russia has moved 4,000 to 5,000 military personnel — a figure far higher than one U.S. official's earlier claim of 1,000 troops. The soldiers are aligned in 'formed units' and fighting around Luhansk and Donetsk.... And they may soon have company: Some 20,000 troops are on border and 'more may be on the way.'" On top of that, the Ukraine Defence Minister claims Russia has made threats that they're prepared to use tactical nuclear weapons to stop further resistance.
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Invasion of Ukraine Continues As Russia Begins Nuclear Weapons Sabre Rattling

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  • Sigh... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by mythosaz (572040) on Tuesday September 02, 2014 @05:36PM (#47811107)

    I guess I lose my bet that the end of humanity would come from war in the Middle East.

    • by mark-t (151149)

      It won't be the end of humanity... There's no chance that this will ever develop to that scale.

      But for what it's worth, if they go through with this, then I'll be losing a bet as well. I've been figuring for the last 15 years or so that the next nation to use a nuke as a wartime act of agression would be North Korea.

      • Re:Sigh... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by ultranova (717540) on Tuesday September 02, 2014 @05:54PM (#47811297)

        It won't be the end of humanity... There's no chance that this will ever develop to that scale.

        War is an archetypal situation. Once the possibility of one starting develops, it has "suction": people react to the archetype, and that threatens to overwhem rational thought. The archetype was worshipped as a divinity in many cultures precisely because war behaves as if it was a living thing seeking to devour people - or, in this case, the entire world.

        So yes, there's every chance this will develop into World War III: Last Dance.

        • Re:Sigh... (Score:4, Insightful)

          by theshowmecanuck (703852) on Tuesday September 02, 2014 @06:02PM (#47811421) Journal
          And just because you can lead a country doesn't mean you are rational. Putin: q.e.d.
          • Re:Sigh... (Score:4, Insightful)

            by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 02, 2014 @06:10PM (#47811501)

            And just because you can lead a country doesn't mean you are rational. Putin: q.e.d.

            You are dangerously underestimating Putin if you believe he is irrational. Better to go with Machiavellian.

            Perhaps you can cite all those examples of "irrationality" you perceive in Putin and the rest of us can judge for ourselves.

            • Re:Sigh... (Score:5, Interesting)

              by theshowmecanuck (703852) on Tuesday September 02, 2014 @06:38PM (#47811787) Journal
              Only one needed: that the Soviet Union (in whatever name you want to give it) deserves to be reinstated against the will of the majority of the people in the countries involved. But for kicks, that he deserves to be able to be president for life, that he looks cool riding around on a horse with no shirt, that he thinks being called short is unfair (he's practically a midget), that he thinks people believe he actually shot a {insert type of wild animal here}. Add whatever other Kim Jong Un/Il super dictator fake achievement cult of personality bullshit you want. Fuck, even his wife had enough of him and left.
            • Re:Sigh... (Score:5, Interesting)

              by Kelbear (870538) on Tuesday September 02, 2014 @06:59PM (#47812015)

              I think Putin is crafty and Machiavellian is a great way to describe his choices.

              But with that said, we don't have to assume Putin to be insane or foolish to concern ourselves with nuclear escalation. His gradual conquest of the Ukraine is a calculated risk that essentially says to NATO, "I bet you haven't got the balls to stop me, I can take what I want."

              He's moving slowly and boiling the frog in the water slowly so that he can get what he wants with slower and safer escalation...but it's still escalation. He's planning to push until he himself is convinced that NATO is actually willing to go to war to stop him.

              Basically, he's started a nuclear game of chicken, and the worst part about nuclear war is that the best outcome goes to the one who issues the first strike since it's hoped to at least partially blunt a portion of the counter-strike. In a nuclear missile crisis, you can't know when the point of no return is crossed because at that point, there's no response to the opponent's latest gesture of escalation, at that point the missiles are simply fired without notice to reduce the enemy's response time as much as possible.

              I don't expect nuclear war to be imminent right now, but with the trajectory Putin is taking, I expect that he won't stop until he's pushed us all to the very brink of nuclear war, and the risk is that Putin may accidentally push us just a hair too far and find us in a situation that even he cannot de-escalate from since he won't know when he's overshot his limits.

              • Re:Sigh... (Score:5, Interesting)

                by amiga3D (567632) on Tuesday September 02, 2014 @08:42PM (#47812947)

                No chance of Nuclear war. Who's going to call his bluff? President Obama? Not likely. Germany? They like sucking his dick too much. France? Don't make me laugh. Poland has the balls but not the muscle. Nope, Putin can goble Ukraine a little at a time until it's all gone. Of course, when it's done what does he have? A lot of pissed off Ukranians to try to keep his boot on. Just what Russia needs, more indigestion.

            • Re:Sigh... (Score:5, Insightful)

              by scubamage (727538) on Tuesday September 02, 2014 @07:32PM (#47812309)
              This is very much true. He's intelligent enough to work not only as a highly decorated KGB serviceman, but also to quickly climb the rungs of power in what is most certainly a very corrupt country. Don't underestimate the gamesmanship involved with either one of those achievements. That alone should give you pause before calling him irrational. He is likely very rational - and cold, and calculating, and ruthless.
      • Re:Sigh... (Score:4, Insightful)

        by mythosaz (572040) on Tuesday September 02, 2014 @06:05PM (#47811455)

        It won't be the end of humanity... There's no chance that this will ever develop to that scale.

        But for what it's worth, if they go through with this, then I'll be losing a bet as well. I've been figuring for the last 15 years or so that the next nation to use a nuke as a wartime act of agression would be North Korea.

        While I think the actual outright end of humanity is slim, should anyone go any sort of nuclear - artillery or otherwise - there's going to be a pretty epic international shitstorm. There's no telling what some Ukrainian/Crimean commander will do if he actually has the power to retaliate in kind, and where that leads, or who rolls in tanks or planes to support.... ....someone.

        I think it's probably going to end in UN finger-wagging and "peacekeepers" on the ground for 50 years, but what do I know...

        • by roc97007 (608802)

          > I think it's probably going to end in UN finger-wagging and "peacekeepers" on the ground for 50 years, but what do I know...

          History, I'd say.

        • Re:Sigh... (Score:5, Interesting)

          by Zocalo (252965) on Tuesday September 02, 2014 @07:39PM (#47812379) Homepage
          Well, the like-for-like retaliation from Ukraine won't happen. One of the terms of Ukraine's independance was that they give up the nukes they had left over from the break up of the USSR, but their supposed pay back from that would be protection from NATO if Russia were to invade. Now that a full scale invasion of Eastern Ukraine is clearly underway that comment was almost certainly aimed at NATO in an attempt to give them pause while the Russians consolidate their position and get dug-in.

          At this point in time, with almost no response by NATO/the West other than some obviously ineffectual sanctions, my money is on Russia successfully annexing enough of Eastern Ukraine and the Crimea (albeit as an "independant" state with its capital in Donetsk or Sevastopol) that it can resupply the Crimea via land from mainland Russia.
        • by J'raxis (248192)

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

          Ukraine removed all their nukes in 1994, three years after independence. No Ukrainian commander has the power to retaliate to a nuclear strike in kind. According to the article, they're regretting that decision right about now.

          • Russia just shot their wad on cold dirt. Let's just say Putin takes Ukraine; fine, now what? The whole post Cold War was proven to be bullshit. Not just perceived BS, but the genuine best-of-the-best BS the world has ever known in international politics. Which means a few things.

            1. All other nations will never give up their nuclear weapons; not at the request of the US or NATO. Never going to happen again after this.
            2. Russia as a culture can't never be trusted. They will be isolated to the ends of the Eart

            • Re: Sigh... (Score:3, Funny)

              by Anonymous Coward

              The West needs them, not the other way around. Sanctioning Russia is right now proving a disaster for the EU, which cannot afford it. Germany is understanding it and if Germany fails, the whole of the EU sinks with it.

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by chris_mahan (256577)

          if they do that, every single country out there will go out and develop nuclear weapons deterrents. Ukraine specifically received guarantees from Russia for its protection when it gained independence, 20--25 years ago. Russia's word is so easily broken? Sad, dangerous and sad.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      While this sort of news is important, without a doubt, I just don't see why it's on Slashdot's front page. This submission contains nothing but political news.

      There are thousands upon thousands of news and discussion web sites that focus on politics and current events of this sort. We can go there if we want to read and discuss news such as that in this submission.

      There are comparatively fewer web sites focusing on technology, mathematics, science, and computing. Slashdot was such a site. We'd be able to co

      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        I'm not sure why you're modded at zero points. I'd mod you up if I could.
      • by Anubis IV (1279820) on Tuesday September 02, 2014 @06:01PM (#47811401)

        Repeat after me: "News for nerds. Stuff that matters."

        When one of the world's superpowers is threatening to make use of their nuclear arsenal, it is, most certainly, "stuff that matters".

      • by metlin (258108) on Tuesday September 02, 2014 @06:07PM (#47811467) Journal

        I come to Slashdot for a certain type of view point, and sometimes, I am indeed interested in what Slashdotters have to say on topics of political and economic interest.

        In that sense, I am often delighted when Slashdot carries such articles because it gives me an opportunity to understand a particular issue in a new light.

        The signal to noise ratio here is significantly better than, say, CNN (i.e., imagine siphoning through thousands of comments on R vs. D debates). In contrast, I find that there is more rational discussion, and new insights here on Slashdot than elsewhere. Obviously, YMMV.

        • Agreed (Score:4, Insightful)

          by AnontheDestroyer (3500983) on Tuesday September 02, 2014 @06:57PM (#47811977)

          Geeks are thinkers, by nature. We'll all think off in a nutty direction sometimes, but it's always good to see what's on a few peoples minds.

          Slashdot is somewhat international, and we get to moderate posts. It's like reading through the comments portions of an article without all nonsense drowning out the relevant viewpoints.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by kencurry (471519)
        Nuclear weapons are serious technology; maybe the most serious tech that we possess. I do believe that this story belongs on slashdot for that reason alone.
      • by PopeRatzo (965947) on Tuesday September 02, 2014 @07:11PM (#47812137) Homepage Journal

        There are comparatively fewer web sites focusing on technology, mathematics, science, and computing. Slashdot was such a site. We'd be able to come here to find articles and dicussion that wouldn't be readily available from other sources or venues.

        Next article up: "Ask Slashdot: Will nuclear winter usher in the year of Linux on the desktop?"

    • by Etherwalk (681268) on Tuesday September 02, 2014 @05:57PM (#47811339)

      1) Putin is just posturing re: tactical nukes.

      2) If Russia used tactical nukes, at least against NATO troops, it would go *very* badly for Russia. We're talking collapse-their-economy bad at the absolute minimum.

  • Put it this way (Score:4, Interesting)

    by alphatel (1450715) * on Tuesday September 02, 2014 @05:37PM (#47811121)
    Forget about MAD [wikipedia.org] or Deterrence. The only MADness here is Putin. If he does what he says what he will do (and he seems to rarely back down from anything due to his massive ego), most of the First World countries are going to immediately join forces to invade and permanently occupy Russia. This is obviously much harder than it sounds, and with lots of radioactive fallout there will be far more civilian causalities than in any other war ever imagined. The only question is - can Putin visualize the worst case scenario at all or has he completely lost his mind?
    • Re:Put it this way (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Dins (2538550) on Tuesday September 02, 2014 @05:40PM (#47811141)

      The only question is - can Putin visualize the worst case scenario at all or has he completely lost his mind?

      He's just confident that the west will let him have Ukraine. Unfortunately, I don't think he's wrong. Will be interesting to see if we ever draw a line somewhere and then what we do when he crosses it...

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward

        I'm reminded of the CDT from the Keith Laumer "Retief" series on how the US and EU are conducting business.

        Right now, they are in full, "peace at any cost" Chamberlain mode, willing to accept any concession. However, we all know how well that went.

        With the way things are, I fear the line will be when Russia decides not to heed the '90s treaty that settled Germany, but goes back to the one from '45... and takes back their chunk. Hope Bonn can serve as a capital again. Same with the US. I wonder if the CI

      • Re:Put it this way (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Intrepid imaginaut (1970940) on Tuesday September 02, 2014 @06:04PM (#47811445)

        If he does back down he risks losing a lot more than the next election.

    • most of the First World countries are going to immediately join forces to invade and permanently occupy Russia

      Why do you think that? I have the strong feeling most of the first world looks at this like a bag of poo that's on fire. No one really wants to do anything with it but pretend it's not there.

    • by SuperKendall (25149) on Tuesday September 02, 2014 @05:47PM (#47811221)

      Putin has a massive ego, yes. But he's also a realist.

      He knows that no other superpower will do anything no matter what he does. Certainly not the U.S. No-one has or will do anything about a whole jetliner of people shot out of the sky with citizens from around the world, why would they about a war in the Ukraine?

      Your notion anyone would join forces to invade Russia is the real madness...

      So he does whatever he wants because he can. And people are surprised about that?

      • Invasion (Score:4, Interesting)

        by DarthVain (724186) on Wednesday September 03, 2014 @10:16AM (#47816269)

        Except, this is how World Wars get started. There is a Treaty in play. One that says, we Ukraine will disarm all our nuclear weapons if you the USA will come to our aid should we ever be invaded. Which is why I suspect there is all this word play as to if Russia has indeed "Invaded" Ukraine or not. If indeed Russia has invaded Ukraine, then the USA would be obligated to come to their aid significantly, as would any others that signed the treaty. Not only that, you would get allies that have signed pacts with the involved countries for mutual military actions, then so on and repeat until everyone is involved and you get a World War. Combine that with the fact that the two major combatants would be the largest nuclear weapons owners, is cause for concern, particularly if one is currently rattling that saber.

        However even if it came to conventional war, using nuclear weapons would be insane. The one and only time it was considered and used, was because the potential casualty rate was expected to be well over 1 million troops for a conventional invasion of Japan to force capitulation. The largest war in recent history lasted nearly 10 years, yet less than 5,000 US troops were killed. Think about how far those two numbers are apart. Even then the two devices were in the kiloton range not the megaton. The US isn't going to invade Russia, and Russia isn't going to invade the US.

        Anyway if the US doesn't honor the Treaty it brings into question all their previous treaties, pacts, alliances, etc... as being worthless and subject to political whim.

        • No, the US didn't agree to defend Ukraine. The US and Russia both agreed not to invade Ukraine, but there's no stipulation that if one invades the other will defend.

          The real aftermath of this will be that no nation will ever voluntarily give up their nukes again.

    • by Ravaldy (2621787)

      Although I don't want to find out the hard way, it would be interesting to know if the US successfully developed nuclear counter measures. I know they had a few prototypes years ago but I imagine with the advancements in technology that it would be much more effective now than ever.

    • by Monty845 (739787)
      There is no way the West would attempt to invade Russia after it had already demonstrated willingness to use Nuclear weapons. That is the surest way to nuclear apocalypse. The west would be forced to abandon the Ukraine, and limit its response to sanctions and digging in along the NATO border. Every nation with the means to develop nuclear weapons would look at what happened to the Ukraine, look at what happened to the NATO countries protected by US nuclear arms, and start crash programs to develop or exten
    • Re:Put it this way (Score:4, Interesting)

      by rasmusbr (2186518) on Tuesday September 02, 2014 @06:10PM (#47811505)

      He's decidedly not mad in the sense of being irrational. Everything he does adds up towards his goal of strengthening the Russian state and the Russian military industrial complex. (Someone ought to investigate on Putin's and his family and friends stock ownership).

      Russia has a strong hand the next 20-30 years, as the western world runs out of petroleum and has yet to create a replacement. Russia has huge untapped petroleum resources, which it can use as a bargaining chip. A country of merely 140 million, this may well be Russia's last chance to expand its borders until the end of history, so if that is Putin's goal then now is the time to play his hand as hard as he possibly dares to.

      I would say that Putin might be a megalomaniac psychopath, but those are not irrational if they actually have great power. The time from now until he dies will be interesting.

    • by Kjella (173770)

      Sure he can. He just assumes that the West will never call him on it, or that if they do it'll be a very, very clear line like the Cuban missile crisis or when Hitler invaded Poland. He could probably nuke Kiev and occupy Ukraine and I still don't think NATO would come out and declare war on their own against the second biggest nuclear force on the planet. Don't forget that it's only a defense alliance, you can't invoke it unless a member state is under attack so there'd have to be a long and ugly political

  • Wow (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Intrepid imaginaut (1970940) on Tuesday September 02, 2014 @05:42PM (#47811157)

    I thought we were through with all this by the turn of the century. And I mean you can say that he's bluffing but really, Putin's a psychopath. If you corner a genuine bona fide psycho they'll take you down with them if they can, and they don't need any 72 virgins as an excuse either. Even if he's not, he'll have to act like one - to lose face in his position would represent a fundamental weakening of power, he'd lose support overnight, be deposed and likely disposed of.

    It would seem to me that western leaders have been caught with their pants well and truly around their ankles in this situation, I doubt they were expecting this kind of heavy handedness, er, ever again. So my guess is they'll back out and leet him have his way.

    • ... western leaders... I doubt they were expecting this kind of heavy handedness, er, ever again.

      At least, coming from someone else, and directed at them.

      Heavy-handedness is their tool to use on the proles, after all.

    • by Ravaldy (2621787)

      Lose today and prepare for tomorrow. You may be correct but no matter what happens none of this will rest easy in the long run. Russia be will be handled like a bully from here on out.

      I think in today's age you would be quick to see the Russian army dissolve should all world leaders embark against them. Back in WW2 the communication highway didn't exist and if the Germans knew how much they were outnumbered and how quickly they were losing ground, they would have crumbled much earlier. In the face of defeat

  • Unreal... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by xfizik (3491039) on Tuesday September 02, 2014 @05:49PM (#47811249)
    Regardless of political preferences... I simply can't imagine in what form those threats could have been made. Phone call? Letter? Email? How can anyone be so [IMHO, unrealistically] stupid to mention using nuclear weapons knowing that every word in today's communications is being recorded and would be published by the opposite side?

    P.S. Thank you Slashdot for posting at least 2-3 stories about Ukraine every day. I guess this is really the stuff that matters to nerds that much.
    • Re:Unreal... (Score:5, Informative)

      by IamTheRealMike (537420) <mike@plan99.net> on Tuesday September 02, 2014 @06:01PM (#47811399) Homepage

      Regardless of political preferences... I simply can't imagine in what form those threats could have been made. Phone call? Letter? Email? How can anyone be so [IMHO, unrealistically] stupid to mention using nuclear weapons knowing that every word in today's communications is being recorded and would be published by the opposite side?

      It was made during a verbal question and answer session some days ago. You can read a transcript of the full thing, without western media's blatantly selective quoting and bias, right here [kremlin.ru]. Do go read it for yourself. The press has been having a field day with taking individual sentences out of context, in many cases not even mentioning that Putin was responding to questions from Russian citizens, to make it look like he's issuing press releases about Ukraine specifically. It's the most amazingly dangerous set of selective quotations I've ever seen. In this case Putin wasn't even talking about Ukraine!

      I copy/pasted the full question and answer in a post below. But you can easily find it in that page. It's a long answer to a relatively vague question that asks (amongst other things) about how Russia can avoid being drawn into large scale conflicts. So right at the start he says he doesn't want to be drawn into any large conflicts, he doesn't think it's going to happen and that he thinks nobody has any intention of starting a large scale conflict (er, he might want to re-evaluate that given the noise coming out of NATO). Then he goes on to point out that Russia can defend itself, and talks about the "nuclear deterrent" (same language as the UK uses), and then states again that it's for defence.

      You can choose not to believe him if you like. But the USA and UK also have "nuclear deterrents" and their so-called Departments of Defence routinely engage in offence at the drop of a hat. We routinely see far more aggressive language coming out of the White House. So I don't think anything Putin is saying here is particularly unique or unusual.

  • Actual full quote (Score:5, Informative)

    by IamTheRealMike (537420) <mike@plan99.net> on Tuesday September 02, 2014 @05:54PM (#47811303) Homepage

    Full transcript of this youth camp Q and A session is available here [kremlin.ru].

    ROMAN SMAGIN: Good afternoon, Mr President.

    I am Roman Smagin from Novosibirsk Teacher Training University.

    It’s no secret to anyone that history tends to repeat itself. Historical events seem to unfold according to a cyclical theory. Over these last two years we have remembered and celebrated the historic choices that Russia made at important moments for our country’s destiny, such as in 1612, 1812, and 1914.

    In this context, I want to ask you what view you take of the cyclical nature of history as we can see it in Russia. Also, I want to ask you about your view of historical memory, how it helps us, how it can help to preserve Russia’s political influence on the international stage, contribute to our society’s development, and not let Russia be drawn into a new open global conflict.

    Thank you.

    VLADIMIR PUTIN: Historical memory is a very important part of our culture, history and present. Of course, we must draw on our historical experience and historical memory as we look towards the future. I can therefore say straight away that Russia is certainly not about to let itself be drawn into any large-scale conflicts. We do not want this and will not let this happen.

    Naturally, we need to be ready to respond to any aggression against Russia. Our partners, no matter what the situation in their countries and the foreign policy ideas they follow, always need to be aware that it is better not to enter into any potential armed conflict against us. Fortunately though, I don’t think anyone has the intention today of trying to start a large-scale conflict against Russia.

    Let me remind you that Russia is one of the world’s biggest nuclear powers. These are not just words – this is the reality. What’s more, we are strengthening our nuclear deterrent capability and developing our armed forces. They have become more compact and effective and are becoming more modern in terms of the weapons at their disposal. We are continuing this work to build up our potential and will keep doing so, not in order to threaten anyone, but so as to be able to feel safe, ensure our security and be able to carry out our economic and social development plans.

    As far as cycles are concerned, yes, I think that the world’s development does go in cycles. This has pretty much been proven as far as the economy is concerned. There are economists here and they can no doubt explain it better than I can, but there are various cycles in the economy, small waves, large waves and so on, and any country’s development depends on the state of the economy. This is why economic growth and the transition from one technological level to another always have an impact on people’s lives and prosperity and on the social and political situation.

    Just look, for example, at the way demand is growing in the European countries, and how hard it is to keep up with this constantly growing demand even at today’s level of technological development. This is a sign that there is a need for something else, that we must compensate somewhere for what we are not managing to achieve with the help of foreign policy and defence policy.

    I hope very much that not just Russia’s historical memory but that all of humanity will prompt us to search for peaceful solutions to the various conflicts that are currently unfolding and that will arise in the future. We support political dialogue and the search for compromise.

  • by SpankiMonki (3493987) on Tuesday September 02, 2014 @05:56PM (#47811327)

    OK, I guess this "story" qualifies as "stuff that matters", but can we at least get something more than a smattering of links to stories that are yesterday's news? Putin made his comment 4 days ago, and damn near every think in the summary points to stories that are three days old (and contain more than their share of unsubstantiated speculation).

    I'm not normally one to make "why is this on slashdot?" posts. But taking into account the predilections of the submitter, I gotta say this comes off as a troll submission.

  • Seriously? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by gerddie (173963) on Tuesday September 02, 2014 @06:01PM (#47811407)
    From TFA:

    Kiev has received threats of nuclear retaliation from Russia through unofficial channels if it continues to fight pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine, the Ukrainian Minister of Defence, Valeriy Heletey, announced on his Facebook page on Monday.

    This is news for nerds, for people who are supposed to love science. Science is, when you can prove things, reproduce them. An announcement from someone on the losing side who has an interest in dragging NATO into this is not a statement that can be relied on. It is not even mentioned what the unofficial channel, is, nor was any kind of prove provided, like with all the rest of the anti-Russian propaganda, btw.

    I expect tomorrow news on ./ to be: The pope said that God is real.

  • Really? (Score:5, Informative)

    by mbone (558574) on Tuesday September 02, 2014 @06:20PM (#47811595)

    This sounds like real news. You would think it would be on the front page of the world's news sites. However...

    Isn't on the BBC
    Isn't on the Guardian
    Isn't on the Washington Post
    Isn't on the New York Times*
    Isn't on the LA Times

    I detect a pattern here.

    * The NYT does have on its home page a story entitled "Putin’s War of Words: A Roundup." I guess saying that "thousands of words are already pouring over its western borders" doesn't have quite the same pizazz.

    • The stories linked to were at:

      News.com.au [news.com.au]
      CNN [cnn.com]
      Newsweek [newsweek.com]

      Those are hardly obscure names in the world of journalism.

      The pattern I see is that that you won't go to where the stories are posted and try to manufacture a controversy from it.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 02, 2014 @06:23PM (#47811625)

    There are no formed Russian military units pouring over the border. There are some Russian soldiers who are on leave and using their personal time to help the separatist movement in Ukraine, but there is absolutely NO ORGANIZED RUSSIAN EFFORT here.

    I have a lot of family in Donetsk and Luhansk and it is BUSINESS AS USUAL there. The territory is now and has been operating as if it were part of Russia for MANY MANY YEARS. Nothing has changed except the installation of a westernist puppet as President who is now trying to re-integrate separatist regions under threat of force.

    Nobody in eastern Ukraine considers themselves Ukrainian, including my Family who has lived there for generations. Eastern Ukraine has always been and will continue to be Russian.

    • by jopsen (885607)

      There are some Russian soldiers who are on leave and using their personal time to help the separatist movement in Ukraine

      Documentation please... It's naive to think that Russia isn't hiring people to spread disinformation all over the internet.

  • by Required Snark (1702878) on Tuesday September 02, 2014 @06:43PM (#47811835)
    of a major world power since George Bush.

    Anyone remember that itty-bitty little mistake of invading the wrong country after 9/11 based on falsified intellegence?

    On a scale of 0 to Iraq, how does Putin invading Ukraine rate?

  • by sgage (109086) on Tuesday September 02, 2014 @07:15PM (#47812175)

    This whole Ukraine 'crisis' is made in the USA. Most of the 'news' you hear about it is disinformation, and patent bullshit. Putin was saying, look, we don't want Kiev - if we did, we could take it, but we don't. Meanwhile the US (NATO) is making all kinds of threatening and provocative noises. So Putin was just reminding folks that look, we are not just some other shit country you can make roll over for the Empire.

    Of course. this can not stand, according to the idiots that spout foreign policy in Washington. But it will.

    • by LordLimecat (1103839) on Tuesday September 02, 2014 @08:05PM (#47812653)

      I guess you're right. But somehow, Invading / providing substantial material support for an insurrection in another country, and then annexing it-- followed by reminding everyone "if you screw with us, things will get real" doesnt exactly sound as reasonable as the way you put it-- it somehow seems more aggressive.

  • by Dereck1701 (1922824) on Tuesday September 02, 2014 @07:49PM (#47812487)

    Oh my, a member of a recently created government (appointed by coup), who is facing unrest from their own citizens, and is upset about outside assistance by another power (And US, Europe, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Israel don't?) is posting to his Facebook page that said outside force is planning mass murder. Stop the presses! This "story" has all of the validity of a small time drug dealer scrawling a message on a bathroom wall about the cities drug kingpin planning to release a plague in the city because..... well..... he can?

  • by Chelloveck (14643) on Wednesday September 03, 2014 @04:07PM (#47819821) Homepage
    It's clear that Russia has weapons of mass destruction. The US has no choice but to invade and force a regime change before Putin can totally destabilize an already volatile region. Who's with me?

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