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Google The Almighty Buck News

Google Helps Homeless Street Vendors Get Paid By Cashless Consumers 142

Posted by samzenpus from the easy-pay dept.
An anonymous reader writes Starting today Seattle pedestrians can no longer pat their pockets and claim to have no cash when offered a copy of the ironically-named Real Change weekly newspaper by a homeless street vendor. Google has spent two years working with the Real Change organization to develop a barcode-scanning app which lets passers-by purchase a digital edition with their mobile phones. Google's Meghan Casserly believes the Real Change app — available on Android and iOs — represents the first of its kind in North America.
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Google Helps Homeless Street Vendors Get Paid By Cashless Consumers More

Google Helps Homeless Street Vendors Get Paid By Cashless Consumers

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  • This isn't from the Onion?

    • No. It is real. (Score:5, Interesting)

      by frovingslosh ( 582462 ) on Thursday April 16, 2015 @07:45PM (#49490387)
      No. It is real. And great news. I'm going to tell all of our local homeless beggars about it and suggest that they should go to Seattle.

    • This isn't from the Onion?

      Every work day, when I get off the Sounder train at King Street and am walking over towards the bus tunnel, there's a guy hawking those "Real Change" tabloids. I've never seen anyone actually take one, though - and I didn't realize they weren't free!

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by gl4ss ( 559668 )

        as free as books from hare krishnas I suppose?

        actually, real change has a price of 2$ printed on it, so it's less bullshit than hare krishnas "free books"(hare krishna books are "free" as in that they will not pay taxes on it but will insist on donation 1-5x the price of the book).

    • This isn't from the Onion?

      No it's a tell-all article announcing a PARADYNE shift.
      No silly, that's the trademarked name of a corporation. You mean PARADIGM shift.
      What a crappy deal. 'Paradigm' looks like it would rhyme with 'jism' or 'pigeon'.
      Whacha gonna do, it's Englitch. How do you pronounce GHOTI [wikipedia.org]?
      Okay so about the homeless people. What are they doing?
      They're throwing open their trench-coats to reveal... a unique, affiliate-tagged barcode.
      So no money actually changes hands, it winds up in an account somewhere.
      Precisely. And it is

  • Just say "No". (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    It's the easiest way to not get harassed by these guys.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by taustin ( 171655 )

      Or just ignore them and walk by without a word. That might piss them off enough to justify calling the cops on them, which at least gets them a warm night and a meal. It's for their own good.

      • Re:Just say "No". (Score:4, Interesting)

        by jblues ( 1703158 ) on Thursday April 16, 2015 @08:25PM (#49490549)

        Back in '99 I got tired of throwing together yet another web app on crazy schedules, and decided to go busking on the streets of San Francisco for a living. I was hanging out with a feller called Wil Jackson on the corner of Grant & Green. A lot of homeless folks there. I noticed a real sense of community between them - they tried to look out for each other.

        It was great fun to wind down and just play tunes for a living. The only problem was, folks in suits would walk past frowning at me (dumb street guy, get a job) A few months later I was back in London, wearing a fine suit and working in the financial district. Fun, challenging work. The only problem was street folks would see me walking past in business attire and frown at me (materialistic suit guy. Get a soul).

        • Re: (Score:1)

          by Anonymous Coward

          Usually the "dumb street guy" doesn't have a job. Not always of course, but usually. And usually, they don't have jobs because they are not competent enough to keep them. Sometimes that is from mental diseases, or sometimes sloth or what-have-you. And it isn't always the case.

          But it is usually the case.

          Lastly, these street guy's *usually* ask for free money. It is rude to go up to a stranger and say "please give me money for free."

          The guys in suits who frowned at you are so accustomed to this treatment

          • Re: (Score:1)

            by jblues ( 1703158 )

            Usually the "dumb street guy" doesn't have a job. Not always of course, but usually. And usually, they don't have jobs because they are not competent enough to keep them. Sometimes that is from mental diseases, or sometimes sloth or what-have-you. And it isn't always the case.

            But it is usually the case.

            Lastly, these street guy's *usually* ask for free money. It is rude to go up to a stranger and say "please give me money for free."

            The guys in suits who frowned at you are so accustomed to this treatment from these people that they automatically assume you will do the same. They can't help but frown at you, because, in their everyday experience, interacting with people like you is unpleasant.

            Homeless people frown at the men in suits because the men in suits won't give them free money.

            Ah, but that was the point of the story. I found myself in the amusing and enlightening situation where in a short span of time I experienced two sides of the coin, and both were fraught with prejudice.

            In the first case, folks seemed quick to draw conclusions about what they saw as someone asking for a free ride. In an ideal world it would've been fair to consider that I'd made plenty of contributions. Financially, I'd paid a good amount of tax in a few years (a few years worth, still young at the time). Me

      • It's a warped works we live in isn't it!

        I used to see the same guy selling The Big Issue (I guess it's the UK version of Real Change) when I walked into uni in Islington. Every day I would say "no thank you" and every day he would say "have a nice day mate".

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Or the Bum grabs your phone and runs off.

    • It's the easiest way to not get harassed by these guys.

      After you pay, the google maps locates the panhandlers location, and routes around it. They could charge for this service as a micro payment, and then give the money to the pan handler.

    • Re:Just say "No". (Score:5, Interesting)

      by mcubed ( 556032 ) on Thursday April 16, 2015 @07:23PM (#49490269) Homepage

      I haven't been to Seattle in a while and don't recall seeing a Real Change vendor there, but here in Portland vendors for our local street newspaper, Street Roots rarely harass or even engage passers-by, except for saying hello. They aren't anywhere near as aggressive as people trying to get you to contribute to some charitable org or trying to get you to sign some petition.

      I used to do proofreading for Street Roots. They have a really good vendor training and try hard to be ambassadors for people living in poverty or experiencing homelessness. (FYI, not all vendors for these papers are currently homeless, though the vast majority have personal experience with homelessness.) It doesn't do the paper or its constituency any good if people find the vendors annoying or irritating. The best vendors have a lot of repeat customers and cultivate a good relationship with them, just like any business people. Street Roots is also very responsive to problems if they arise.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by gl4ss ( 559668 )

        yeah the "facers" are the most annoying.

        especially after you realize that they're employed by greenpeace, unicef or whoever the fuck and don't even give a shit about whatever cause they're trying to raise money for.

        I used to be approached by such friggin daily walking in Helsinki. I mean, they speak that the roma beggars are a problem but you will encounter MORE "facers" for charities than those. they use same tactics to get your money as the roma too, moral blackmailing etc usual stuff. the only difference

      • I mostly see them in front of grocery stores, and at the drive-through exit of at least one Charbux. I've never perceived one to be under any influence, or to be pushy or rude. I suspect the RC folks police them strictly.
  • Now people will have to act like adults and simply say "no, thank you."

    • Now people will have to act like adults and simply say "no, thank you."

      Normally you simply don't engage. There is a little more engagement than in NYC, but also a higher homeless population per capita, I think.

      • Yeah, the NYC version of this app just blinks FUCK OFF on the screen and plays a Bronx cheer.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by msauve ( 701917 )
      My brother-in-law has the best line for dealing with them - "My mom told me not to talk to strangers."

  • So... (Score:2)

    by TWX ( 665546 )
    ...now we either have to come up with another excuse or else tell the person something along the lines of, "sorry, not interested"?

    No one is under any obligation to buy from or to give money to someone panhandling. Given that there are enough actors out there to make one question if any given pandhandler is actually hard-up or not, I don't tend to give out money like that.

  • Apparently it's trivial to make an upper middle class income doing that:

    http://www.straightdope.com/co... [straightdope.com]

    So I ask, why does anybody give to them anyways? Many of them make more money than the people who give them money.

    • Re:Why? (Score:5, Informative)

      by TWX ( 665546 ) on Thursday April 16, 2015 @06:51PM (#49490115)
      People are not smart.

      There are panhandlers at the freeway offramp lights around here, usually because they can stand on the left side of traffic near the driver's side. If you consider that your average light takes about 90 seconds to cycle, there are about forty times an hour when cars are sitting there. If one driver, every other light gives $2, then the panhandler can make $40/hr while sitting at the light. The advantage the panhandler has is that since the potential givers completely flush and replace every 90 seconds, there are new marks constantly, and it's unlikely that any would see anyone else giving money, so they may feel obligated to be the one to do so.

      I figured out it was a borderline scam when I saw the bicycle that the panhandler had sitting off in the bushes. It cost more than the car I was driving.
      • I wish there were a -1 Bullshit mod. We all love stories of panhandlers really being a scam, because it eases our conscience. I live in Florida and I can tell you that nobody would stand out in this sun if they had an alternative! That doesn't just include panhandlers. Probably landscapers as well. There may be *a* rich panhandler, somewhere. But chances are that the people at street lights really are in need. Directly giving money may not actually help as they often have substance abuse and mental he
        • Here they're often out in the rain as well. I was once told that it's most effective to support organizations that provide services, vs giving cash directly, so that's what I usually do, but there's one guy who sits with his dog in a parking lot island at a mall. I give him whatever change I have, figure it's for the dog. As for scamming, I dunno how prevalent that is. Many of the panhandlers I see here look to be a physical wreck and not living the good life. What *does* bug me though is when I see so

    • If that was true, they'd get a place to live.

      But because of people like you, and a political system that refuses to provide sufficient aid to those in need, they are unable to find indoor places to sleep much of the time.

  • Does it report seller's location and ID? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ciaran2014 ( 3815793 ) on Thursday April 16, 2015 @07:00PM (#49490157) Homepage

    If the seller is to get the money then the bar code must be unique to that seller, so it's not the general bar code of the magazine that's getting scanned.

    The phone then reports this seller's ID to some central server. Does it also report geolocation data? (Is there any non-free-software app nowadays that doesn't?) How many people get this data? Google and the magazine company (and any government agency that asks for it)?

    So smartphone users are being used to report homeless people's movements around the city. Or at the very least, it's open to that type of abuse.

    Am I wrong?

    • Am I wrong?

      No, you're just thinking too small-scale ;)

    • The phone then reports this seller's ID to some central server. Does it also report geolocation data?

      I seriously doubt it. I don't see how location reporting for a payment transaction in which location data is irrelevant could possibly pass Google's privacy policy review process. Collection of data not relevant to the transaction is not generally allowed[*], and if the data in question is personally identifiable (mappable to some specific individual), then a really compelling reason for collection is required, as well as tight internal controls on how the data is managed and who has access. I don't see wha

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by tlhIngan ( 30335 )

        I seriously doubt it. I don't see how location reporting for a payment transaction in which location data is irrelevant could possibly pass Google's privacy policy review process. Collection of data not relevant to the transaction is not generally allowed[*], and if the data in question is personally identifiable (mappable to some specific individual), then a really compelling reason for collection is required, as well as tight internal controls on how the data is managed and who has access. I don't see wha

      • I seriously doubt it. I don't see how location reporting for a payment transaction in which location data is irrelevant could possibly pass Google's privacy policy review process. Collection of data not relevant to the transaction is not generally allowed[*]

        Geo-location associated with transactions is one of the simplest, most effective fraud detection methods, AFAIK, used in traditional (Point-of-Sales, credit cards, smart card and pin - aka card-and-pin) and online transactions done by financial companies.

        For example: The Settle soccer mom who suddenly spends a few thousands dollars on jewellery in Nigera, without having a family member buying any airline tickets, generally sets off a red-flag that is verified or investigated.

        I believe all online payment sys

        • I seriously doubt it. I don't see how location reporting for a payment transaction in which location data is irrelevant could possibly pass Google's privacy policy review process. Collection of data not relevant to the transaction is not generally allowed[*]

          Geo-location associated with transactions is one of the simplest, most effective fraud detection methods, [...]

          Fine-grain, i.e. high precision, such as an actual raw GPS or Assisted-GPS reading for location, is not necessary for fraud detection to be effective, and is generally counter productive.

        • Sure, but that requires only very coarse -- city-level, at most -- geolocation. If I were reviewing this product for launch, I'd tell them that they can use location as a risk signal, but must coarsen it to avoid making it possible to use it for people-tracking.

    • If the seller is to get the money then the bar code must be unique to that seller, so it's not the general bar code of the magazine that's getting scanned.

      The phone then reports this seller's ID to some central server. Does it also report geolocation data? (Is there any non-free-software app nowadays that doesn't?) How many people get this data? Google and the magazine company (and any government agency that asks for it)?

      So smartphone users are being used to report homeless people's movements around the city. Or at the very least, it's open to that type of abuse.

      Am I wrong?

      Or maybe the government is exploiting homeless people to keep track of you??

    • If the seller is to get the money then the bar code must be unique to that seller, so it's not the general bar code of the magazine that's getting scanned.

      The phone then reports this seller's ID to some central server.

      This is a real issue as a notable percentage of long-term homeless tends to include individuals with mental illness, and in particular may be rationally or irrationally paranoid (from both previous experiences with government officials& law enforcement, and from the illness itself).

      So identity card programs can be a tough sell, even ones meant purely to benefit the homeless themselves.

      The reality of such a program unfortunately fits all too well into paranoid delusions that some homeless with mental ill

  • And figure out how to route the money directly to their drug/alcohol dealers.

  • I hereby declare this practice... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by QRDeNameland ( 873957 ) on Thursday April 16, 2015 @07:07PM (#49490201)
    ...scanhandling.
  • Who walks around without $2 in their pocket? What a tragic waste of time and effort.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      People who've been mugged for the change in their wallets?

    • Who walks around without $2 in their pocket?

      I keep an "emergency $20" in my phone's wallet case - but that's generally the only cash I have on me most of the time.

      On a side note - I wonder when I turned into that guy? I used to swear I would never, ever use a debit card. Now that's almost always how I buy stuff.

      • I keep an "emergency $20" in my phone's wallet case

        Look again. It's gone.
        Actually I did take it, then put it back.
        Truth is I was after your phone all along.
        Swapped it with mine. Look closely.
        Actually it wasn't mine, I'd already swapped phones with someone else.
        But it wasn't their phone, they had been phone-swapping too.
        There's lots of us out there swapping phones all the time.
        Tower of Hanoi [wikipedia.org] Gray's code variation.
        In place of disc size, we use criteria of how closely one phone resembled another.
        Towers are actually three logs of reversible permutations.
        It's co [wikipedia.org]

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Anonymous Coward

        I carry $1k in 100s (for a serious emergency; e.g. need to buy a bicycle in case of next 9/11 or something), $40 in 20s (for occasions), and credit card for everything else. The $20s get cycled in/out every few months or so. The $1k pretty much stationary in my wallet since I started carrying it.

      • I used to swear I would never, ever use a debit card. Now that's almost always how I buy stuff.

        Same here.
        I remember when card purchases were mostly "hell no!"
        Surcharge that was a percentage off sale price, several dollar minimum.
        Then flat $2.00 fees. Then $1.00. Then 50c.
        Hand over your card for ten minutes to a waitron,
        who dials a toll-free number (busy again!) and shouts digits into the phone.
        Then swipes it in a standalone modem dial-up widget (busy again!).
        Internet happened. Digital connectivity happened.
        Charges up the wazoo that vary from place to place, then NOTHING.
        On a clear day of Magick, assi

    • I carry small bills loose in my pocket whenever possible in large cities. If a homeless person gives me a bad vibe, I'd rather appease them and give a couple dollars and I like to be able to do it without pulling out my wallet in front of them or anyone else who may be watching. Standing there on the street looking down and fumbling in your wallet is a bad idea.

  • Yes.
    Can I have some?
    No.

  • No one's gonna use this for donating to panhandlers (just to bump into them at the store buying more alcohol...)

    The real use for this will be tip jars, purchasing products, mobile micropayments.

    You think business is gonna see this technology and just sit on their hands?

  • Sounds like a great way to make yourself a theft target -- who is going to take out their $700 phone and scan a paper held out by a by a guy begging for cash?

  • Cool (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Let's kill google maps, develop self driving cars. Let's kill reader, produce bastard google plus then abort it. Let's kill talk, and produce shitty buggy hangouts. Let's kill everything that once was for something new. We got money for space balloons, money for glassholes. No love for the user anymore. But damn, let's make it easier for bum ass panhandlers to suck money out of people trying to at least somewhat respect natural selection and do useful work. google utopia!!!!!

  • Google helps homeless street vendors get paid by cashless customers by bitcoins from a SilkRoad affiliated site. Stay tuned.

  • Google was supposed to "Do No Evil".

  • Save space for souvenirs though! Definitely invest in some high quality walking sneakers- by your first night in Prague you will realize that you actually can feel your pulse through your feet timberland Homme [linfrtn.com] You will probably wake up with blisters on top of blisters. Nights can be chilly, even in summer, so bring a light jacket no matter when you go. Since you do so much walking, it'd be wise to bring an umbrella to avoid the hairspray dripping in your eyes and preventing you from seeing the sites if i

  • > Google has spent two years working with the Real Change organization to develop a barcode-scanning app which lets passers-by purchase a digital edition with their mobile phones

    Srsly? Put it in the Guinness Book for the longest tech spike ever. Had Elon Musk adopted this ambitious pace, he'd still use a slingshot.

  • Starting today Seattle pedestrians can no longer pat their pockets and claim to have no cash when offered a copy of the ironically-named Real Change weekly newspaper by a homeless street vendor.

    Well, firstly, yes they can.

    Secondly, what's wrong with treating someone like a human being instead of a potential murderer and saying "no thanks"?

  • Starting today Seattle pedestrians can no longer pat their pockets and claim to have no cash

    So now they will have cash? MAGIC!

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