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Yahoo! Java The Internet

The Next Java Update Could Make Yahoo Your Default Search Provider 328

Posted by samzenpus from the feature-not-a-bug dept.
itwbennett writes: At the company's shareholder meeting on Wednesday, Yahoo CEO Marissa Mayer announced a partnership with Oracle that could result in Yahoo becoming your default search provider in your browser. Starting this month, when users are prompted to update to the next version of Java, they'll be asked to make Yahoo their default search engine on Chrome (and Internet Explorer, for what it's worth). And, according to a Wall Street Journal report, the button will be checked by default, so if you aren't looking out for it, you might unwittingly find yourself a Yahoo user.
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The Next Java Update Could Make Yahoo Your Default Search Provider More

The Next Java Update Could Make Yahoo Your Default Search Provider

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  • This will do WONDERS for Yahoo's image! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by kelarius ( 947816 ) on Thursday June 25, 2015 @07:16AM (#49984227)
    Seems to me like this will lump them in with Ask.com and other bullshit sites that drive traffic through mostly shady means. Giving up Marissa?

    • Re:This will do WONDERS for Yahoo's image! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by pla ( 258480 ) on Thursday June 25, 2015 @07:30AM (#49984329) Journal
      This. People just looove it when their homepage or search provider changes. Why, just the other day, a coworker told me how much he loved Bing coming back after every round of Windows updates.

      Oh, no, wait, he switched to Chrome because he hated it so much. Take the hint, Marissa.

      As an aside, though - Does anyone actually allow Java to update itself? Of all the common self-updating software out there, Java easily wins as the single most obnoxious. Aside from hijacking the top result when I type "update" in the start menu's search bar... Aside from running all the fucking time rather than just when Java starts... Aside from nagging the user more relentlessly than even the far more legitimate Windows update (Bing aside) - It actively breaks shit every time it updates. You had one job, Larry...
      • Only on a very short lease, and only because the alternatives are even worse.

        The fact that you have to slog through the Java Platform, Standard Edition: MSI Enterprise JRE Installer Guide for Windows [oracle.com] to neuter the worst of its behavior is pretty damned annoying, however. Just a few last legacy uses and I can finally pull the plug...

        And, for the few bastard applications that break on remotely modern JREs, it's fun with 'static installations' and breaking out the Deployment Rule Set [oracle.com].

        Recitation of the

      • Re:This will do WONDERS for Yahoo's image! (Score:5, Insightful)

        by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Thursday June 25, 2015 @08:18AM (#49984665) Homepage Journal

        Why, just the other day, a coworker told me how much he loved Bing coming back after every round of Windows updates.

        Windows Update doesn't do that. Microsoft's anti-malware tools sometimes do, if they detect that your default search provider or homepage have been changed to malware sites. Both Windows Defender and the Malicious Software Removal Tool get updated with Windows Update every month, so maybe that's why his settings kept being reset.

      • Re:This will do WONDERS for Yahoo's image! (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Xest ( 935314 ) on Thursday June 25, 2015 @08:44AM (#49984851)

        As a professional developer who has led a number of fairly large scale Java projects I've always just accepted the existence of Java on my computer, it's a thing I've worked with so it's a thing I need. Or so my default thinking always went.

        But the last time Java asked for permission to update on my computer at home there appeared to no longer be an obvious way of avoiding the Ask toolbar install. I had a choice of next, or cancel which cancelled the whole installation. I was getting fed up of it anyway, given that it seemed to be persistently asking to update every time I went to my computer anyway.

        Java, therefore is gone from my home computer and I will no longer consider it for any spare time projects. This has the knock on effect that it's reduced in desirability for me as an option when determining what technology to use for new commercial projects at work too. If I have a choice between Java + Ask, or no Java, it's not really a difficult choice for me.

        So for me, Yahoo can stick whatever they want on it, but under Oracle's stewardship it's going to end up a dying product. For some reason, Yahoo seems incredibly intent on consistently tying itself up with losers. Instead of continuously wasting money backing losers, they should probably just spend what needs to be spent on backing a winner for once.

        I like Java as a technology, and a language - hell, I've posted enough times here defending it, but when the client distribution forces the installation of malware like Ask, it's pretty much a dead end for anything desktop based. You can't as a professional insist your clients install something that tries to bundle malware to use your product with a serious face, it's just not tenable. It'd be one thing if it was just a one off question you could say no to on initial installation, but the frequent updates often mean it can be an attempt to force it on you multiple times a week in some cases. It hopes that in just one of those cases, you'll forget to untick the checkbox and accidentally install, well, obviously that hoping was fruitless, because now there just is no checkbox to untick.

        I understand that with command line switches you can tell Java to skip that crap, and that there are options to automate installation without it in corporate environments but frankly in the end it's just easier to not install Java in the first place unless you simply have no choice.

        I can't say I've missed it one bit, I can't remember the last time I needed it for anything at home. So my "I need that because I work with it" attitude has changed to "Why did I ever put up with all those incessant update nag screens for years". I've got better things to do than play the "try and remember to avoid installing malware because Java wants to update" game every time I sit down at my computer.

        • Re:This will do WONDERS for Yahoo's image! (Score:5, Insightful)

          by ADRA ( 37398 ) on Thursday June 25, 2015 @10:56AM (#49985895)

          As a professional java developer who's 'led a number or fairly large scale Java projects', you never realized the JDK includes a fully functional JRE without ad-crap installed? Color me suspicious.

          • Re: (Score:3)

            by Xest ( 935314 )

            Of course I do, but I don't have any control over client deployments, and I never really saw any point going out of my way to explicitly install it on my home computer when it's already long had the consumer auto-updating version of the JRE on it.

            Just because it's there, hidden out the way, doesn't mean it's guaranteed to be the one everyone will use.

      • Re:This will do WONDERS for Yahoo's image! (Score:4, Informative)

        by PincushionMan ( 1312913 ) on Thursday June 25, 2015 @02:57PM (#49988917)
        I do. But I went to the Java control panel applet, advanced, and checked that very last option "Suppress Sponsor Offers when Installing or Updating Java". I'd love to know how to do this in the registry.

    • Re:This will do WONDERS for Yahoo's image! (Score:5, Interesting)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Thursday June 25, 2015 @07:52AM (#49984471) Homepage Journal

      Microsoft started flagging the Ask toolbar as malware recently in Windows Defender, and automatically removing it. They did so because the Ask toolbar changes your default search provider without asking. Seems like if they made the Java installer do that too, the entire installer would be flagged as malware by Microsoft.

      Could be interesting.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Mashiki ( 184564 )

      Adobe just did this for mcafee [imgur.com] so yeah, it seems to me that all the companies seem to think this is just an awesome idea. I know, we'll change shit for people then laugh when this backfires or something! Though I'm pretty sure that this stuff is illegal here in Canada now.

    • Changing the user search is bad, but not nearly as bad as installing a crappy browser addon that hijacks your search.
      I think the former is a bothersome, but tolerable advertising practice (all advertising is bothersome in a way). The latter should be a criminal offence.

    • This is sad. Yahoo has been in a gradual decline for years, but this just seems like throwing in the towel. They're now officially malware.

  • Assholes ... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by gstoddart ( 321705 ) on Thursday June 25, 2015 @07:16AM (#49984231) Homepage

    Gee, I'm awful glad I don't have Java on my personal machine any more.

    Because the sleazy bastards running it are mostly interested in their ad revenue.

    Here's a thought, guys ... how about you stop trying to change our browsers for your own benefit?

    Java is dying under the stewardship of Oracle. The sooner the better.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Nadir ( 805 )
      Oracle is actually doing very well with Java on the server. Java on the client, otoh, is a different matter.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Java was dying under the stewardship of Sun. Sun were the ones who installed the ask.com toolbar. Oracle got Java 7 out in 18 months after it having been stalled for six years. Stop FUDing. They also got out Java 8, which is the most vibrant and advanced Java release ever.

  • since that insures greater penetration. Th next step is for other software companies that cut deals with search engines to then push an update of their product with their provider as the default choice. I could see some releasing an update that does little more than update the search engine default.
  • This is not significantly different than the current behavior of asking to install Chrome. It could be much worse, and want to install some adware toolbar. Is it really so hard, if you don't uncheck the box, to reset the search provider to the one you want?

    • Re:This is not news... (Score:4, Informative)

      by ihtoit ( 3393327 ) on Thursday June 25, 2015 @07:22AM (#49984283)

      That's not the point, there's a legal issue here. Actually, it's settled case law: opt outs are illegal. End of argument. The checkbox should default to clear (ie the default search engine should NOT be changed because someone forgot to uncheck the box).

      • Actually, it's settled case law: opt outs are illegal. End of argument.

        What if your source for this claim? Searching for "opt out illegal" doesn't seem to turn up anything relavent.

        • Re: This is not news... (Score:3, Funny)

          by Anonymous Coward

          You're probably searching on Yahoo.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by msauve ( 701917 )
          He's got a whole piece of cloth he cut it from.

          Oracle can package Java any way they want, including with "opt-outs." Downloading/installing Java is a voluntary choice the user makes.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by thaylin ( 555395 )

            It depends on where you are from and the content. In the US op-outs are generally legal, but not so much for other countries.

          • Re:This is not news... (Score:5, Insightful)

            by fnj ( 64210 ) on Thursday June 25, 2015 @08:01AM (#49984551)

            Oracle can package Java any way they want, including with "opt-outs." Downloading/installing Java is a voluntary choice the user makes.

            Apologist alert. So if you "voluntarily" choose to engage me to mount new tires on your car, does that mean you don't mind if I install a tracking device in cooperation with the NSA, if you fail to spot the tiny pre-checked box on page 678 of the paperwork? Because everyone should EXPECT tracker installation when they "voluntarily" choose to install new tires, right?

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by DarkOx ( 621550 )

              I agree with the parent they *can* do these things, and nobody ought should stop them. I hope the reaction from users is "Fuck you I am going to avoid using your products and those of the people you are advertising for like Yahoo whenever possible in the future."

              Bad business practices should be rewarded with less business. People need to stop being sheep and just accepting it.

        • Re:This is not news... (Score:5, Informative)

          by ihtoit ( 3393327 ) on Thursday June 25, 2015 @08:22AM (#49984681)

          EU Directive 2002/58 on Privacy and Electronic Communications deals with this, as does the maxim "Silence or lack of objection does not imply informed consent", to paraphrase Munby LJ in G (R on the application of) v Nottingham City Council [2008] EWHC 400 (Admin), para. 56.

    • How about I come by your home and leave a brick on the floor, is it really so hard to just put it in the trash if you don't want it? The point is, it is a theft of your time and effort.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by msauve ( 701917 )
        Whoosh. Oracle isn't leaving anything on your floor, unless you invite them to.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by fnj ( 64210 )

          Oracle isn't leaving anything on your floor, unless you invite them to.

          Then obviously, since you are so intellectually honest, if you call me to come and repair your water pipe, you won't mind if I leave a heap of steaming shit on your nice tile floor.

        • Let's say you've moved into an apartment because it was close to your work. Every time they come over for quarterly inspections or to fix an issue you've reported, they mess up your toilet so it'll overflow next time you use it - unless you remember to specifically opt-out by asking them not to do that.

        • No, they're having the box checked by default - you have to absolutely ask them to not shit on your floor.

          • No, they're having the box checked by default - you have to absolutely ask them to not shit on your floor.

            And they're a lot like my dog - you might ask them not to, but they'll probably do it anyway.

  • Opt out sneakware crap and Oracle suck. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ITRambo ( 1467509 ) on Thursday June 25, 2015 @07:20AM (#49984261)
    Oracle, and other company's, opt out crapware installs is one reason that we install Unchecky on all customer's PC's that we service since almost everyone had Ask toolbars, but had no idea how it got installed. This will help the less aware customers avoid crud buildup in their systems, no thanks to a-hole companies like Oracle.

  • I'd like to see innovation rather than degeneration.

    It sucks that Oracle owns Java and is really in one market (not Java).

    Yahoo is just trying to stay relevant. I do still use them for email, have been since around 1997.

  • Next they will try to install the Ask toolbar. Sun did this bullshit back in the early 2000's. I am surprised it has taken this long for Oracle to take this step to try to ruin Java.

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward

      You obviously have not had to install Java recently. They have been bundling the Ask Toolbar (checked by default, and also making Ask your default search provider) for the last few years.

      Honestly, bundling Yahoo is a step up - or at worst sideways. But, it is still criminal that this kind of crapware is enabled by default, preying on the novice users who are not savvy enough to un-check it.

      • You obviously have not had to install Java recently. They have been bundling the Ask Toolbar (checked by default, and also making Ask your default search provider) for the last few years.

        Honestly, bundling Yahoo is a step up - or at worst sideways. But, it is still criminal that this kind of crapware is enabled by default, preying on the novice users who are not savvy enough to un-check it.

        AC is right - if this is a change from Ask.com to Yahoo, it is an improvement. If the Ask-bar still gets installed - fuck you Oracle.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by in10se ( 472253 )

      They've been bundling the Ask toolbar with the Java installer for years now. It sounds like they are just switching to Yahoo instead - or maybe both. The article doesn't say.

  • is a practice that needs to be outright BANNED.

  • Then, I change it back to whatever. It's obnoxious behavior, but hardly the end of civilization as we know it. Move along, there are bigger fish to fry.
  • Woo hoo!

  • I'm not worried. (Score:5, Funny)

    by Comboman ( 895500 ) on Thursday June 25, 2015 @07:33AM (#49984353)
    If Java tries to change by default search engine to Yahoo, one of my 27 toolbars will quickly change it back to Ask.com

  • What's the point? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by skovnymfe ( 1671822 ) on Thursday June 25, 2015 @07:40AM (#49984393)

    Chrome won't run Java anymore. Soon IE won't either.

    What exactly are they trying to accomplish here?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gtall ( 79522 )

      Marissa to become another VP in Uncle Larry's Stable of Executives from Other Companies?

  • Better than Ask. That's All i'm sayin'...

  • I wonder why Oracle are doing this (Score:3)

    by DrXym ( 126579 ) on Thursday June 25, 2015 @07:52AM (#49984473)
    The first contact many have with a new product is the installer. So what are companies doing to make a good first impression? Conning them into installing adware / crapware or changing their browser settings. It's insulting, it undermines trust and it cheapens the product by association.

    I got so fed up of Adobe loading their updates will crapware like McAfee that I stopped installing it altogether. Likewise I've avoided other products which have started bundling stuff in their installers. I'm sure Oracle are compensated for promoting Yahoo from their installer but the reputational damage will suffer could be immense.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Luthair ( 847766 )

      Because you aren't actually a customer of Oracle. You aren't paying them money and most likely you're using Java to run 3rd party software.

      Just download the JDK it isn't bundled with crapware, or at least hasn't been.

  • Firefox cut a deal with Yahoo too, not because Yahoo is a better search engine for their users, either because Yahoo gave Firefox money or, well, why else would they do it? http://www.dispatch.com/conten... [dispatch.com]

    What sucks is Yahoo sucks. I didn't even notice the browser change by the logo, but I did notice it when it gave bad search results. Changed back to Google, and results were accurate again.

    Yahoo, you are the RealPlayer of the search world. File Chapter 5.
  • How is this worthy of a /. post?
  • 1. Ask.com has always been included in Java installations. 2. Yahoo isn't the first to sneak themselves as a replacement search engine. 3. Proper browsers will stop this unless user approves. 4. I can always switch back.
    • Umm, because it is news.

      How long have you known about Yahoo's deal with Oracle. Forever? Or is this recent? If it's recent, it is news by definition.

      But more likely, you just consider that you are above accidentally installing a toolbar. That's good, but not everyone is. I've had computers to "fix" when people couldn't access their "Facebook" (their name for the entire internet and their browser). Fire up IE, and the screen is toolbars from top to bottom.

      In an effort to help them, it's really nice to

  • Sleazy as fuck (Score:4, Insightful)

    by flopsquad ( 3518045 ) on Thursday June 25, 2015 @08:31AM (#49984757)
    Of course I want to use a search provider that has to hijack my browser to gain any significant marketshare. Why would I want to use the search engine that works best for me, when Oracle can choose a shittier one for me?

  • And (Score:5, Informative)

    by Ol Olsoc ( 1175323 ) on Thursday June 25, 2015 @08:36AM (#49984809)
    Adobe tries to slip in MacAfee on you when you download their pdf reader.

  • Not just Java installers... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by QuietLagoon ( 813062 ) on Thursday June 25, 2015 @08:54AM (#49984931)
    I always check the "custom install" option whenever I install any software, and I adjust all the options to do what I want the installer to do.

    .
    imo, anyone who blindly accepts the default installer options gets the malware they deserve.

    • Agreed! If you have used a windows PC to install more than 5 programs, you have learned to *ALWAYS* choose custom install. I don't know if I would say that anyone *DESERVES* malware, but choosing to custom install your program will make you better at managing your own computer, and the world needs more of those people.

  • To the poster (Score:4, Funny)

    by fulldecent ( 598482 ) on Thursday June 25, 2015 @09:03AM (#49984995) Homepage

    If you're going to include an obscure technology like Java in the article. Could you please explain what it is?

  • Hopefully, the old pre-opt-out will work (Score:5, Informative)

    by idontgno ( 624372 ) on Thursday June 25, 2015 @09:12AM (#49985077) Journal

    In Windows, use the Java Control Panel and select the "Advanced" tab.

    At the very bottom of the list, completely out-of-sight unless you scroll aaaaaaal the way down, in a category called "Beware of the Leopard"... no, sorry, I meant "Miscellaneous"... there's a checkbox labeled "Suppress sponsor offers when installing or updating Java".

    Of course, by default it's not checked. Because money.

    But check it and apply or "OK" the settings change. In the current implementation, this prevents bundling the Ask.com malware with Java upgrades -- it's a pre-opt-out, and you never have to think of it again. (At least, until Oracle decides the option should auto-magically unset itself when the user's not looking. Because money.)

    Assuming this option continues to exist in future Oracle Java versions and is honored for the Yahoo tie-in, this would alleviate the pre-opt-in crapware issue. Big assumptions, of course, because Oracle.

    (Or alternately, don't install Java [betanews.com] if you don't actually need it. Or install OpenJava rather than Oracle's.)

  • Another Yahoo goodie! (Score:4, Interesting)

    by no-body ( 127863 ) on Thursday June 25, 2015 @09:14AM (#49985099)

    On Yahoo Email, there are mandatory ad emails showing on top and one cannot delete those.
    If you click on one under Firefox, a link opens but is blocked.
    Looks the more BS they produce the more desperate they get and produce even more crap.
    Digging their own grave it seems.
    Maybe it has to do with the "upper crust people" beeing control freaks and out of touch with reality when things don't go like they should in their minds.

  • Java non-NPAPI plugin??? (Score:3)

    by myowntrueself ( 607117 ) on Thursday June 25, 2015 @09:25AM (#49985177)

    Does this mean that Oracle will be producing a Java plugin thats compatible with Chrome???

    Aside from the issues of self-signed certificates and strict requirements on whitelisting this might actually make it possible for me to use Chrome to do my job (which involves connecting to remote KVM/iDRAC/ILO systems which require a Java client).

    Otherwise, yeah no way Oracle, no one is going to install Java any more if they are using Chrome and don't really REALLY need Java (in which case they'll use a different browser).

    In other words, if Oracle doesn't produce a non-NPAPI plugin, then client side Java will be in the wastebasket of history soon; its only a matter of time before its no longer supported in other browsers than Chrome.

  • Idiots. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by prisoner-of-enigma ( 535770 ) on Thursday June 25, 2015 @09:32AM (#49985223) Homepage

    Yes, because tricking people and manipulating their settings without their full acknowledgement is a sure fire way to gain brand loyalty. Idiots.

  • Friendly OpenJDK Upstream? (Score:3)

    by allquixotic ( 1659805 ) on Thursday June 25, 2015 @09:38AM (#49985269)

    Does anyone know if there exists, or can we start, a project like this:

    (1) They distribute binaries for Windows (32-bit and 64-bit). Other platforms would be awesome, too, but Linux already has great OpenJDK support in package managers, so that may not even be necessary. Windows is the platform where it really sucks.

    (2) They have a custom-designed updater that schedules itself to run every so often (say, every 2 weeks); launches; checks for an update; and then *EXITS* if it doesn't find one. If it does find one, it gives the user a simple "Yes/No/Ask Later" prompt: if they pick Yes, it'll silently remove the old OpenJDK version and install the new one; if they pick "No" it'll skip that version and only remind them when the next update comes out; and it'll bug them next week if they click "Ask Later". Once it finishes whatever it has to do, it EXITS, rather than remaining in virtual memory forever like the Oracle Java updater.

    (3) No adware. All components free and open source software. Installer should only depend on FOSS (no InstallShield, etc.).

    (4) Gives user the option to enable/disable Java plugins for each browser detected to be installed on the system, at install-time, and can be configured after install via a config GUI. Default should be to NOT install the Java plugins, since they have had a history of severe vulnerabilities, but users are free to request their installation anyway.

    (5) Installer should come in two forms: a "net installer" that has a tiny size (1 MB or less) and only downloads the requested components at runtime (allowing user to select whether they want the source code, the JDK or just the JRE, etc.), and an "offline installer" that contains the entire kitchen sink and does not need Internet connectivity (for environments behind a restrictive proxy, or no network connection).

    (6) User should have the option to install OpenJDK without admin rights! If they don't have admin rights, stick it in AppData\Local and put the plugins in a similarly user-scoped folder (not possible with IE as far as I know, but should work with Chrome and Firefox). Auto-detect whether the user can be an admin, and only give the UAC prompt if the user's account can actually accept the prompt; otherwise, fall back to "non-admin" install.

    Gee, sounds like if nothing like this exists, I have the requirements / design doc in my head...

    If I disappear in my room for a week and don't emerge until this thing is on github, tell my family and my cat that I love them.

  • When people ask me to help them get java working I say no bloody way. My simple theory is that Java in the enterprise might be a good thing but java on the home machine is just asking for trouble. To me Java has a perfect storm of people not wanting it. First is that Java must be regularly updated to keep it safe. But I don't trust these updates to not screw me over in some fashion, either through malware such as this or simply popping up at an inconvenient time. For instance I am often recording video tutorials. There is nothing worse than some software update popup showing up in the middle. Especially if it is one of these focus grabbing popups. But the java update is a total bastard as it keeps turning itself back on after I keep turning it off.

    So I basically danced around my office when I read that chrome and firefox were pretty much killing Java as an extension/addon.

    But adding malware to their install just makes me laugh at how stupid these MBAs are. Yes in the next few quarters they will make lots of money. But how many quarters before people will have significantly reduced their downloads?

    Also for Yahoo, I hate Ask.com for their trashy approach to getting users. Make a great product and then people might come. Fooling them into coming is just scummy. So now people will lump Yahoo in with the various sites that over the years have tried to use deception as their marketing tool.

    For those of you out there all touchy about Java, my comments are not about the Java language, but the java product.

  • This is really big news (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Minwee ( 522556 ) <dcr@neverwhen.org> on Thursday June 25, 2015 @09:45AM (#49985327) Homepage

    I think we're missing the real story here.

    The article is suggesting that Java update _actually works_ and is capable of _updating Java_.

    I can't remember the last time that was true.

  • Turning off Java's add-on crapware (Score:5, Interesting)

    by taustin ( 171655 ) on Thursday June 25, 2015 @10:44AM (#49985813) Homepage Journal

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\JavaSoft]
    "SPONSORS"="DISABLE"

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\JavaSoft]
    "SPONSORS"="DISABLE"

    The screen with the checkboxes does not even appear.

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