Army Exoskeleton Prototype Helps Soldiers Learn To Shoot 86
An anonymous reader writes: Infantrymen live by their shooting skills, but becoming an expert marksman can take a long time. U.S. Army researchers are working on a way to improve these skills with the help of the MAXFAS, an arm exoskeleton that uses arm braces to correct involuntary arm shakes. Designed At the U.S. Army Research Laboratory by Dan Baechle, the MAXFAS has been shown to improve aim even after users have taken it off. "Soldiers need to be able to aim and shoot accurately and quickly in the chaos of the battlefield," Baechle said. "Training with MAXFAS could improve Soldiers' accuracy, and reduce current time and ammunition requirements in basic training."
Re:They seem to need more help not raping people (Score:5, Funny)
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Yes, it's called a chastity belt. Old tech.
Maybe they should deploy some of those. It might help with suicide rates being higher than casualty rates.
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Two questions:
1) How do those numbers compare to the number of men and women in the military?
2) How do those results from 1) compare to national sexual assault rates?
Seems to work. (Score:2)
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> I guess they should just wear them in the field.
What? As soon as they see your AIMBOT the enemy cries "CHEATER!!!" and you get disqualified, worst idea ever.
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Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:What happened to basic training standards? (Score:4, Interesting)
The goal here is to finally have women serving as equal.
Marksmanship is an area where women tend to do well. They have a lower center of gravity, less fast-twitch muscle, and a weaker systolic heartbeat. For the opposite reasons, black men tend to be the worst marksmen. In general, if you are good at sports that require sprinting, fast reactions, and upper body strength, you will be bad at shooting.
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Marksmanship is an area where women tend to do well. They have a lower center of gravity,
not always :D
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In all my years of shooting training (non military, rather olympic rifle shooting and similar disciplines), there are women who do come in and do rather well, however most often it happens that way if there's someone to set everything up and all they have to do is put a round in and pull the trigger. Obviously there will be exceptions to this. Military trained shooters, at the ordinary level, are usually hopeless at disciplined target shooting. It's fair enough, they're two completely different things, but
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Can we please keep things on topic and not have every article turn into a gay marriage debate? No? Ok, Let's just get this exo-whatever thing built so we can have more time for our military to attend sensitivity training.
RE sensitivity training: People who are actually IN the military don't complain so much about who they are fighting next to, it's the people that are out or were never in, trust me.
This is extremely true. I was in the Marine Corps during DADT and the repeal. I heard maybe a couple of people complain at the repeal of DADT, and in execution I noticed a grand total of 0 changes, including no decrease in the rampant number of dick and gay jokes.
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We have become a nation accustomed to throw money at every problem. Looking back at the conflicts we have been involved since WWII, I guess we have also forgotten how to win wars. What is the end result? A very expensive and sophisticated army that can't win a war?
In the meantime, the Chinese and the Russians are threatening the sovereignty of their neighbours. Strange days indeed.
The USA has been at war for a lot more of its history than any other country, and thats with a very short history indeed.
The USA has a strong tendency to be more belligerent, more likely to go to war, more likely to fuck with its neighbours than China has ever been in its entire history (except when it was ruled by the Mongols but thats completely different).
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Shooting is hard for a lot of people and lots of training certainly does help. If you want to deploy technology that makes a big difference then I think there are better avenues to approach.
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If you can shoot at them, they can shoot at you. The longer you take to aim, the longer you are exposed and someone else can aim at you or as is more often the case, take a snap shot at someone a few metres away and hit you by accident as they spray out bullets. Somehow a exo-skeleton that makes me stick my gun up with my head exposed behind it while it demands I take aim, kind of seems wildly offensive. Reality if the people you are training are too incompetent to learn to shoot relatively accurately with
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Anonymity, pseudonym, it is the same thing: hiding that which could be used against you. Posting your real name and address certainly would be brave, but to call someone that chooses not to accept a risk unnecessary to take a coward is simply wrong. Cowardice is avoiding risks that ought to be taken. Posting as the pseudonym "adosch" instead of the pseudonym "Anonymous Coward" is not that.
Just because a particular individual is being an ass does not mean that it is okay to tarnish the reputation of everyone
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It's also a mistake to call this a training aid. Obviously if you need it to control involuntary shakes on the firing range you'll need it in the field.
Re: What happened to basic training standards? (Score:1)
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"I am sure it is a cool corrective tool to use, but its a crutch. "
From the summary that you could have read yourself: "the MAXFAS has been shown to improve aim even after users have taken it off. "
It is an actual training tool, not a crutch.
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Ah how the U.S. Military has softened up. I remember pushups, kick in the helmet, and more pushups, sweat in the eyes, drill sergeant fear and pushups to correct my shooting posture and shaking.
I am sure it is a cool corrective tool to use, but its a crutch. But we have been shooting guns for centuries and using less-than-accurate firearms than we have now, its a matter of attention, caring and wanting to be good with your firearm.
And icing on the cake: When I was in the 'motherland' for OIF, it was a great feeling to know I had good shooting mechanics and trusted my shot. I couldn't imagine being in the military and sucking at that.
Can't have people being afraid of joining the military because they are worried about the discipline!
BTW the USA has the lowest 'fit for military service' per head of population than any other country on Earth. They are desperate to get people in the military and desperate to get them fit for service. Why do you think the USA is so keen on drones, fighting robots etc?
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Actually, the US military has little trouble getting enough people physically fit for service. Physically fit, and sufficiently educated, and disciplined, and willing to risk your life for long hours, low pay, and little respect - those criteria are hard to meet. But still, we find a few million. More than all of Europe combined.
The main reasons for drones and robots are politics and money. The politicians are afraid they'll be blamed when even a single soldier dies, so they don't want to risk any. Als
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I haven't served, but I have a decent amount of experience with the military.
I've met and worked with soldiers in all of the US military branches. They're really good at what they do, but they're not perfect, and they know it. As you so bluntly pointed out, there is exceptional discipline, but you can only beat people so hard before they just stop improving. Humans have limits, and despite what your commanders convinced you to believe, technology is the best way to surpass them, not more pushups.
The soldier
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What can possibly be bad about using a device that helps you to learn to shoot better? Detailed feedback seems to be a more effective method than a scattershot approach of pushups and getting yelled at.
Basic marksmanship better than a exoskeleton (Score:1)
Mastery of basic marksmanship and body mechanics will go further than band aiding the problem with technology.
Alternatively... (Score:5, Interesting)
... a drill sergeant could just push your arm into the correct position and call you a grab-asstic piece of amphibian shit until you get it straight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
This reminds me of those tablets they were handing out to school children on the notion that it improves education... and isn't just a great way to play angry birds. Which is exactly what happened to the Los Angeles Unified version of that little genius ploy.
I don't know. I'm all for exoskeletons... in the military and otherwise. But telling me it teaches people how to shoot in the military seems like a solution to a problem that we already have a better solution for... no?
Re:Alternatively... (Score:4, Interesting)
According to the military, that isn't the problem. Apparently the current generation is more willing to kill than any prior generation that they kept records for... WW1's generation had a really hard time actually intentionally shooting someone.
Even up to Vietnam it was quite common for US soldiers to intentionally miss.
The military is saying the problem is not that people are sissies so much as they're fat and weak. So they've shifted a lot of the training from bits where they key up people's killer instincts and instead spend that time running laps and doing push ups.
I can send you reports from the marines and army. They're very happy with the "grit" of the men showing up to serve. They're just annoyed out how out of shape they are.
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According to the military, that isn't the problem. Apparently the current generation is more willing to kill than any prior generation that they kept records for... WW1's generation had a really hard time actually intentionally shooting someone.
Even up to Vietnam it was quite common for US soldiers to intentionally miss.
The military is saying the problem is not that people are sissies so much as they're fat and weak. So they've shifted a lot of the training from bits where they key up people's killer instincts and instead spend that time running laps and doing push ups.
I can send you reports from the marines and army. They're very happy with the "grit" of the men showing up to serve. They're just annoyed out how out of shape they are.
If the military requires drone pilots then the requirement for fitness in military service drops a lot. Which helps the USA a lot because the majority of 'Murcans are not fit for military service at all.
Just set the flabby fatty 'Murcan in the chair in front of the drone controls and let them murder as many people as they like cos they LOVE killing.
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The military doesn't take that view. The marines especially have the notion that EVERY member of the marines is a "rifleman" first... which means universal fitness is mandatory. Not only that but competence with their rifles is required... it doesn't matter what you actually do most of the time. You must master that first and maintain that skill. Look at them.
There are no fat marines.
The army a bit looser on that but for a lot of reasons I won't get into, they're not going to tolerate big fat dudes. It lite
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Fitness requirements stop at age 42.
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I'd like to see that, kinda disturbing.
Maybe they were right about video games and violence on TV, but violence rates are still going down so who knows.
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I didn't explain properly. The military is not saying the new recruits are psychos. They're saying they don't have to be conditioned to kill. The average US WW2 vet was not a psycho. But after the war, he was much more able to shoot someone than he was prior to going to war.
He had had the violence normalized in his mind to a certain extent. However, that didn't mean he was a murderer. The crime rates after wars don't spike up above what they were went vets come home. They might go up above what they were du
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Yeah sorry I put way too much "negativity" into that post it was before coffee. I also seem to remember seeing some quote by an SAS/SEAL/Delta/Some other special forces founder that said when they were starting out it was easy to find people who could handle the physical side of things but difficult to handle the mental, and it then reversed on them, mental was easy physical was hard.
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Yep... the mental aspects are underrated. When the lead is going on target you want people on your side to go for the kill. That's how modern militaries protect themselves on the battlefield. It isn't armor. Its about killing the enemy quickly... ideally before they even know you're there.
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... a drill sergeant could just push your arm into the correct position and call you a grab-asstic piece of amphibian shit until you get it straight.
Is that what made you the man you are today?
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It gives me a genuine thrill of pride that you would think so... Really.
Ever had someone try to insult you but they know so little about you that they accidentally complimented you? Always amusing.
Thanks. :)
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It gives me a genuine thrill of pride that you would think so... Really.
That's what I was trying to find out, more than whether you had been in. You confirmed my suspicions in every way. Thanks, I guess. Sorry about your life.
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Drill sergeants cost a significant amount of money to maintain, whereas if this technology is produced in large quantities it can become a valuable investment as a replacement for drill sergeants.
If they both accomplish the same thing, and one can be cheaper than the other, why would you not choose the cheaper one?
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Drill sergeants are a given so that's a zero sum game. The military is not replacing drill sergeants with anything.
They would sooner get rid of infantry than replace their non-coms.
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"we already have a better solution for"
By what criteria are you judging this to be worse that the current method?
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Cost, live human feedback, live adaptability, proven effectiveness of existing methods...
You know... just the really obvious things that anyone could cite if they thought about it for at least 2 full seconds.
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I don't know. I'm all for exoskeletons... in the military and otherwise. But telling me it teaches people how to shoot in the military seems like a solution to a problem that we already have a better solution for... no?
Well, that's the only question that matters - is the exoskeleton solution better than having a human train you?
That question can only be answered by building it and trying it out over a series of tests, comparing it against the baseline of having a human yell at you to stand up straight or whatever.
I have often wondered if something like this could exist for skiiing - I've been skiing maybe 5 times now and I'm starting to get the hang of it, but every time I get a lesson I'm frustrated by the instructor sa
The real reason...... (Score:1)
The bean counters have struck again!
Incorrect characterization (Score:2)
They aren't "improving skills". They are assisting the subject mechanically so he doesn't NEED as much skill.
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And the less skill a solder has the less of a threat they are to the politicians who sent them to war.
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It is subtle and immediate feedback, works wonders when learning a new skill.
It's for a pistol, only officers carry (Score:2)
Infantry uses rifles, can't see this helping anybody but the ones behind the line.
Do you want to get Borgs? (Score:2)
Because that's how you get Borgs.
RTFA (Score:2)
The reasons why are fairly obvious to me. Any teacher will tell you that more than half the job is teaching someone to STOP doing it the wrong way. This technique makes sure you never pick up bad habits.
Secondly, m
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ShanghaiBill mentioned earlier [slashdot.org] that it is because of a weaker systolic heartbeat, and during a biathlon the heart rate is going to be up quite a bit.
Biofeedback (Score:1)
After reading the article, I think I see what is happening.
The braces are touching the user's arm, in such a way that they provide feedback on how and when the arm is moving. The users become accustomed to holding their arm so that the touch is minimised. After some training the brace is no longer needed, although it might be useful for heavy firearms or when fatigue sets in.
This is called Biofeedback, it was a popular idea a few years back. And it does work.
I bet the Olympic Shooting Team is training with