Microsoft Edge On Windows 10: the Browser That Will Finally Kill IE 255
An anonymous reader writes: Windows 10 launches today and with it comes a whole new browser, Microsoft Edge. You can still use Internet Explorer if you want, but it's not the default. IE turns 20 in less than a month, which is ancient in internet years, so it's not surprising that Microsoft is shoving it aside. Still, leaving behind IE and launching a new browser built from the ground up marks the end of an era for Microsoft. “Knowing that browsing is still one of the very top activities that people do on a PC, we knew there was an opportunity, and really an obligation, to push the web browsing experience and so that’s what we’ve done with Microsoft Edge," Drew DeBruyne, director of program management at Microsoft told VentureBeat.
Is it still integrated with the shell? (Score:5, Insightful)
Because if so, it'll be just as dangerous as it ever was.
Re: Is it still integrated with the shell? (Score:2)
Edge is ie with all the crusty code needed for old version compatibility/quirks mode removed, or it started off as that at least
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Clearly that's not the case now: It has integrated Flash support.
There you go. Microsoft wouldn't stand still by letting some other manufacturer make a Flash plugin with vulnerabilities: they decided they could make all those vulnerabilities in-house.
Re:Is it still integrated with the shell? (Score:5, Informative)
IE hasn't been integrated with the shell for a decade. If you type a URL into an Explorer window in Win7 or 8, it just launches your default browser, which may not be IE.
Re:Is it still integrated with the shell? (Score:5, Informative)
No it's written in WinRT which is to say it's sandboxed from the rest of the operating system using the WinRT app model. One of the annoying things about developing for WinRT is just how low privileged an application in WinRT is without any means to escalate except by explicit user permission. Shell access is impossible. COM is nearly non-existent. The only way to get data to and from the application in the WinRT framework is through a specific API contract that makes Soviet Russia look like a libertarian paradise by comparison.
In short, by writing Edge in WinRT they automatically picked up a lot of security features automatically. I would be really surprised if in its current state it could be used to modify system files.
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You're correct that they could theoretically do anything they want, however when Edge was first released to Insiders you couldn't access LocalHost files (aka .html files on your desktop or a local Apache server). The Public APIs have a checkbox for "local host" so I took that to mean that they were working from the public developer defaults in their compiler options.
Also since Edge is intended to run on all universal windows platforms I assume they're going to avoid API hooks which might not be available
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Native messaging support is on Microsoft's radar. If they don't do something like that, IE is likely to be around for a very long time. Or companies will just Chrome instead.
https://twitter.com/shimonamit... [twitter.com]
https://developer.chrome.com/e... [chrome.com]
Um... (Score:4, Insightful)
I think Firefox dealt it the mortal blow, and then Chrome finished the job.
Re:Um... (Score:5, Informative)
And then Chrome turned around and finished Firefox.
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Yes, well, we often hurt the ones we love.
About the only place I still see IE is on some web-based applications from the late 90s thru the mid-00s that were built using IE 5 and 6's very insecure ActiveX architecture. Up until last year, we were forced to use such software on one of our government contracts, and it literally meant viewing the site in Compatibility Mode with security settings cranked down to nothing. They finally updated the underlying Siebel engine to the HTML5 version, and after that every
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Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
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This. The only reason I dropped Firefox was because of changes the Firefox team made (and the attitude they had when making those changes), not because of features other browsers introduced before Firefox.
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I know that Chrome is the 45% usage king, but it's not like Firefox (~15%) is dead by any stretch.
No it's not perfect, but Firefox is good enough for me - Sync, AdBlock Plus, Firebug, etc. And I'm not interested in giving Google every piece of info about my browsing habits.
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Now would that be Chrome on Android vs FireFox on Android or Chrome on Windows vs FireFox on Windows or Chrome on Linux vs FireFox on Linux or just all jammed together. A lot of Chrome numbers come from Android and FireFox not being the default loses out in a big way on the mobile phone platform, especially when a lot of the default actions on a mobile phone reach out to the internet to do local use stuff.
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And then Chrome turned around and finished Firefox.
I think Mozilla is doing that themselves. With each FF upgrade, I seem to loose more and more functionality and it gets slower and slower. I find I'm starting use Chrome more and more lately, even though I know I'm loosing some privacy in doing so.
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Chrome didn't kill Firefix. Mozilla's UX team killed Firefox.
Don't forget the LGBT mafia who chased out one of the founders because he donated a small amount on his own money on his own time several years ago for a cause they disagreed with.
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We are primarily a government contractor, and our main contract had a Siebel-based client management system (only a government would have the combination of money and stupidity to invest in an ancient technology like that, but oh well), and up until late last year, we had to run IE in the lowest security mode and IE7 compatibility mode just to make the ActiveX components function. The new version is by and large HTML5 compatible, and though they recommend Firefox, we've had only a few bumps running Chrome.
It's like winning the lottery! (Score:5, Funny)
New Browser code from Microsoft written from the ground up? Time to go look up details on Microsoft's Bug Bounty program.
Re:It's like winning the lottery! (Score:5, Informative)
The browser UI is new, but the rendering engine is still based on Trident. They just removed all the legacy stuff, and focused on clean implementations of the standards without worrying so much about backward compatibility. Edge will puke about as badly as Chrome or Firefox will if fed code and markup intended for IE7, instead of falling back to IE7's rendering style.
Which isn't to say there aren't going to be security bugs, of course. But then, the same is true of all the big browser vendors.
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So Microsoft Edge will finally kill Windows, eh? (Score:2)
The only things holding back people to Windows, I thought - IE and VB style client server apps. There are still ao many websites, specially banking and so-called inhouse web apps that rely on ActiveX and Craptive things on the Windows Ecosystem. So with Edge, the intrwebs will be forced to support a standards-compliant browser on the Windows desktop. Very good.
Once that is complete, the only reason for Windows on the desktop will be gone, and browsers like Firefox, Chrome and Opera - which are all standards
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New Browser code from Microsoft written from the ground up? Time to go look up details on Microsoft's Bug Bounty program.
From what I'm gathering, you may need to wait a while. Its still so raw that a lot of it is Not Even Wrong yet.
I found this bit quite funny (Score:5, Interesting)
You might be wondering, why didn’t Microsoft put Cortana in a different place in Edge; why the address bar? DeBruyne spelled it out for us: “Second to the start menu, it’s probably the most trafficked place in the Windows user interface.”
So why did you remove the start menu in windows 8?
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Because it's better to use the search functions than the start menu.
Please explain why.
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Speed. You can dig through the start menu or tap the first two letters of the program's name.
Presuming that the first two letters correctly identify the program you want to run. And then there are the dead ends when you mistype a letter....
.
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Speed. You can dig through the start menu or tap the first two letters of the program's name.
Presuming that the first two letters correctly identify the program you want to run. And then there are the dead ends when you mistype a letter....
.
While we can all argue about the milliseconds saved by.......
The right way to open programs
What Winws 8 got so wrong was that people wanted to open their programs the way that wanted to open programs. And a lot of people like shortcuts on the desktop One of the biggest complaints I got was that some of the programs (desktop apps) coulld be placed on the desktop, many couldn't (metro apps)
Not everyone is a fine typist, and we look pretty stupid trying to explain why the customer cannot have what t
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Honestly, search has been here since Vista and was refined in Windows 7. The only time in the past 7 years I've actually dug through a menu was when I forgot what a program was called but I could remember what the icon looked like.
Want to start Handbrake? Tap start > Type "han" > Hit enter.
Want to start Word? Tap start > type "wo" > hit enter.
I can do most of these faster than anyone can even take their hand off the keyboard and move it to the mouse.
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The GP asked why it was better, I told him, speed and efficiency. Use it or don't use it. I couldn't give a shit. You're acting like me answering someone else's question hurt your feelings. Jesus get over yourself man.
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Jesus get over yourself man.
I can't, because the search panel program starters have made me feel inadequate and robbed me of my self esteem.
We have a real old fashioned donnybrook going on here where peopel are asserting superiority over how thy start programs. I got involved, because it's a riot as well as ridiculous. And yeah, your's is one of the funny ones.
Tell ya what sparky, Get a sense of humor, and I promise to get over myself.
Kiss kiss, and you can have the last post to call me an asshole. It's the least I can do.
Re:I found this bit quite funny (Score:5, Insightful)
The fastest way to launch a program is to click on a shortcut. The start menu is for discovering what programs are on the computer. Searching is useless if you don't know what is installed.
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The fastest way to launch a program is to click on a shortcut. The start menu is for discovering what programs are on the computer. Searching is useless if you don't know what is installed.
I'm sure you can come up with a contrived scenario but are you really just exploring a computer and looking for a program to run without knowing what you want to do that often that using the start screen rather than the start menu was that much of an inconvenience? Even if you have a file and you don't know what program you want to open it with the "Open with..." menu generally lists all the appropriate programs, again you can come up with a scenario where this doesn't happen but it's far from typical.
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The fastest way to launch a program is to click on a shortcut.
That's what the "metro screen" gave us. It can definitely fit more shortcuts on the screen than win7's little "All Programs" scrolly section where you can hunt for the one you want.
I have to assume you are being sarcastic since it is pretty clearly impossible that the screen could fit more of the gigantic icons that constituted metro, than to fit a couple of words in standard font and which also allows nesting of structures.
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Essentially, they redesigned that bit of the interface around the only part of it that was still useful in the modern age: the program search feature..
Re:I found this bit quite funny (Score:5, Interesting)
So why did you remove the start menu in windows 8?
Lol, well said.
However, to be fair to MS, they didn't "remove it" they revamped it. They rightfully identified that there was a ton of functionality jammed into it, and that it was a shitty UI for most of it, while simultaneously its primary design driver was a vestigial hierarchical folder structure from Windows 95 that really was quite hideous and unusable, and rarely used.
Every one used the start menu to shutdown, to get to control panels etc, to access frequently used and pinned apps, and to search.
shutdown? because that's where it was. No real need for it to be there relative to anywhere else.
control panels same thing. So they moved them (and also added them to right click start menu).
pinned apps... you can still create taskbar menus and pin apps etc in win8.
search -- there's two types of search: ... "power user quick launch" . For example type cmd to launch command or pow to launch powershell, etc etc... the win7 start menu worked well for this
-- type one
-- type two -- actual search. Where you want to find something that you don't know what its called, or to find a document. Having your whole search interface in a small popup in the corner that was liable to disappear on you at random was silly and useless. The win7 start menu sucks for real search.
Finally... heirarchical start menu browsing... was clumsy in Windows 95 and all but useless in a modern PC. Nobody used it unless they had to, and browsing multiple levels of nested folders was clumsy.
The start screen in windows 8 ... was better for search. And the other commands were relocated. The problem with windows 8 was simply that the new locations were non-obvious. (how do I shutdown?) And the "type one" quick search-launch functionality was now really clutzy switching to a full screen app for quick launch makes no sense. (And really the whole 'go full screen' was a mistake. The old start menu was broken... but the new one was also broken, better in some ways, but worse in most.
But they were looking for a solution to a definite problem. Anyone who honestly looks at the windows 7 start menu has to acknowledge that it does too much, and does MUCH of it poorly. It needed attention.
Unfortunately windows 8 was a step in mostly the wrong directions. Too touch centric. Too much key functionality hidden off screen. Charms bar was just bad. Not having window border controls for mouse users was just bad. Defaulting to using 'modern ui' for viewing pictures etc was just bad. 8.1 cleaned up a lot of that, but it was still not ideal. Too much was driven by the tablet/mobile design rather than really trying to solve the problem for desktop users in a way that made sense for desktop users.
Windows 10 (build 10240) seems like a pretty good compromise so far. There's still plenty I don't like, but I think its a genuine step forward from 7 rather than a step sideways.
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Am I the only one who thinks that the removal of the pop-out start menu with Windows Vista was a step in the wrong direction
It was terrible before too, if you wiggled the mouse too much and you were 7 layers deep into the heirarchy the start menu would close or flip over to another folder, and you'd have to start all over...it was usability garbage.
The replacement in vista was still tedious, but the previous incarnation was gouge-your-eyes-out-bad if you had to navigate to something that was deep.
I don't want to 'feel' it, I want it to be real (Score:5, Insightful)
"He then laid out Microsoft’s three goals with Edge:"
1) Build a browser that feels “responsive, fast, and lightweight” but that is also “clean, doesn’t get in your way, and also works great with the modern web.”
No, idiot, build a browser that IS responsive, fast, and lightweight. I don't care how it makes me 'feel'.
2) Build a browser that is trusted and lets people feel safe.
Again, no, I want the browser to BE safe, and don't care how it makes me 'feel'. All this touchy feely crap you can leave to the hippies. Also if you want me to trust your browser, then make the code open-source and the software FREE (as in speech, not beer)
3) Build a browser that is “personal and productive,” fitting in with what Microsoft is trying to do overall as a company.
No, I don't want a personal browser, I want a simple browser that answers 1 and 2 without the bloat that is IE (or worse Office)
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'feel' is being use as an emotive marketing term to engage the buyer more.
If they're being truthful then the way they'll make it 'feel' responsive, fast, and lightweight is by *being* responsive, fast, and lightweight, but enough so that you actually notice the difference to before and to competitors. So fingers crossed.
Trust and safe though are more about brand. Doing away with the IE brand and calling it edge rather than IE12 is dumping their old baggage - the history of bugs (ActiveX etc) and the fact it
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Also if you want me to trust your browser, then make the code open-source and the software FREE (as in speech, not beer)
Looks like you're not the target audience......
Early results... (Score:3)
...still needs work. Here's what I saw this morning on twitter [twitter.com] from Jeff Atwood (of CodingHorror / StackExchange fame)
errr.. is there any way to use MS Edge browser in fullscreen mode on tablet? I see a lot of wasted toolbar space here.
Richard Gregg @odgregg 10h10 hours ago
@codinghorror No. And even F11 doesn't go fullscreen
Jeff Atwood @codinghorror 10h10 hours ago
@odgregg :( so much screen space wasted, toolbar at bottom, 2 toolbars at top. Bad regression now I see what @drpizza was on about
Richard Gregg @odgregg 10h10 hours ago @codinghorror @drpizza Yeah, edge definitely seems only 2/3rds there so far. Web notes should have been lower priority
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I have yet to figure out this obsession some people have with screen space. Bitching about three friggin' toolbars?
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I don't know what size tablet he was trying to use, but I do know that when your screen space is really limited, having a huge percentage of it taken up with interface elements is beyond annoying.
On my home desktop at 1280x1024x3, yeah its no big deal.
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I have yet to figure out this obsession some people have with screen space. Bitching about three friggin' toolbars?
Tablets have insufficient screen space. Wasting any of it is sacrilege. I would complain about three toolbars, too. I have zero toolbars on firefox, That seems to be about the correct number.
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I have yet to figure out this obsession some people have with screen space. Bitching about three friggin' toolbars?
On a smaller tablet that screen space does come at a premium, but if that's the biggest complaint then it's pretty impressive.
Ageism for the next generation (Score:2, Insightful)
"IE turns 20 in less than a month, which is ancient in internet years , so it's not surprising that Microsoft is shoving it aside."
Hard to get into the article when the summary is already so full of B.S.
Let's see now, the internet itself is over 25 years old; guess it's got to go. Linux is also nearly 25 years old; what a fossil. Heck, Windows is nearly 30 years old; how can Microsoft justify selling such an outdated P.O.S?
The reason I.E needs to go has little to do with it's age and more to do with it's d
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Microsoft, yes Windows no. I can remember using McAffee anti-virus on MS-DOS long before I started using Windows.
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Agreed -- the grand parent is pretty ignorant of the history about viruses.
https://nakedsecurity.sophos.c... [sophos.com]
i.e.
* 1982 - Prehistory: Elk Cloner
* 1987 - nVIR
* 1988 - HyperCard
* 1990 - MDEF -- (Windows 3.0 released)
* 1991 - German folk tunes
* 1995 - Word macro viruses (Window 95 released)
Familiar Character (Score:4, Funny)
"Edge" will not kill IE any more than it is (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't see why people think IE can be "killed." Until you convince curmudgeony old people (like governments) whose web-based tools break on anything other than IE to pay green money to update their websites, IE will stick around. And, since some people (mostly governments) will never be willing to pay money to fix something that "isn't broken" (as long as you use it on IE), IE will never, ever be completely dispensable.
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Mainstream (Score:2, Insightful)
IE turns 20 in less than a month, which is ancient in internet years
Look, the Internet has been around more than 25yrs. Can we stop this internet speed "really moves fast" thing. Really. Facebook has been around since 2008 and Google since 1998. And look at their progress. Not much since 2006-2008. If you want beta, crappy apps and ideas, and stupid trends, yes, the Internet "moves fast" in that context. If you want services & products that you incorporate into your life, aka the real "Internet" (ignor
Still missing lots of niceties (Score:2)
The core browser functionality is there and working, but there is still a lot missing. For example, the right-clicking on a hyperlink only has options for opening in a new tab or new window. All the other options (Copy Shortcut, Properties, Save Target As..., etc.) are missing. As previously mentioned, F11 doesn't do anything and there doesn't seem to be any way to run full-screen at all (just maximized, which leave the title bar). Also, when first launched, the address bar is not shown - this feels very st
Any ad blockers for it yet? (Score:5, Interesting)
Hey Cortana, how can I block ads when I'm using Edge?
changing the name? (Score:2)
MS can call it whatever they like... the chances that at its core this thing isn't going to be IE are small.
Trust. (Score:2)
So IE is old and badly maintained, so just "trust us" that our new Edge browser will get better maintenance and support after it replaces IE. Never mind that it will be the same pile of schlubs maintaining the thing as were maintaining IE. It will be different this time, just "trust us".
If MS ever officially apologizes for the Ribbon interface and throws it into the same burn pile as Clippy, then I might start trusting them a little more. So far they have a nasty habit of shoving garbage down their custo
We Must Save Internet Explorer 6!!! (Score:2, Funny)
Everyone join
http://www.saveie6.com/ [saveie6.com]
The best browser ever! Don't submit to a post Gates Microsoft!
on again with the fishy practices (Score:3, Interesting)
I just installed windows 10 yesterday as an upgrade to windows 8.1.
it kept all my settings, in a very accurate way except for one : it replaced my browser with edge. So at the first reboot I launched chrome, and it whined about not being my defaut browser, so I clicked the "make chrome my defaut browser" button, and a window came, recapitulating my prefered apps for music / videos / etc, I thought to myself that it was thoughtful to show me all those settings, but I had other things to do, so I closed that window.
Well, next reboot, same problem : chrome wasn't my default browser, you actually have to go to the bottom of the window that pops up, and the deselect edge for your prefered browser at the bottom of the window. So I finally did it.
I thought about the same thing : " ... browsing is still one of the very top activities that people do on a PC" yes, so why the hell don't they change the browser as chrome requested, and why the hell do they put this option on the bottom of the window, which is not visible unless I scrolled down (I have a 1920x1080 screen) ?
well I think I know why, I'll be sure to check edge's market share in the next months.
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YEAAAAAAAAAHHHHH
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I tried Edge on my Windows tablet and wasn't impressed. The controls were smaller and harder to manipulate. My IE shortcuts were not imported to Edge, so I would have had to start all over.
I installed Windows 10 on my tablet, tried Edge, then uninstalled Windows 10 from my tablet.
The changes in Windows 10 make it more of a desktop OS, but make it much harder, imo, to start the programs you want on a tablet. The large buttons on the Metro 'Start' menu are gone. Apps open in floating windows. Essentiall
Re:Will Edge be ported to Windows 7? (Score:5, Interesting)
I guess you haven't found the "tablet mode [theverge.com]" feature.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
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My IE shortcuts were not imported to Edge, so I would have had to start all over.
You are aware that importing your favorites from other browsers into edge is about three clicks away?
Re:Will Edge be ported to Windows 7? (Score:4, Insightful)
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What does Slashdot charge for such an infraction?
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I did not expect to come here and fine someone complaining about how great Windows 8 is.
Whenever a new version of Windows comes out, the previous version is ALWAYS better, no matter how crappy the previous version was.
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Re:Will Edge be ported to Windows 7? (Score:4, Insightful)
Who the hell modded this clown up?
There is a tablet mode, which you failed to figure out!
What! Windows 10 isn't sophisticated enough to figure out if it is running on a tablet?
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What! Windows 10 isn't sophisticated enough to figure out if it is running on a tablet?
It's less a "tablet mode" and more a "touchscreen mode", and no, Windows 10 isn't sophisticated enough to figure out if you're going to use your mouse or your touchscreen to interact with your computer before you do.
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What! Windows 10 isn't sophisticated enough to figure out if it is running on a tablet?
It's less a "tablet mode" and more a "touchscreen mode", and no, Windows 10 isn't sophisticated enough to figure out if you're going to use your mouse or your touchscreen to interact with your computer before you do.
Well, that is something else entirely, then. They should call it touchscreen mode. Tablet mode sounds like you would want to use it on a tablet.
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Well, that is something else entirely, then. They should call it touchscreen mode.
It's hardly entirely different, if you want to be pedantic they should probably call it "Finger Touchscreen Interaction Mode", because you might not necessarily use your finger on the touchscreen, you might use a stylus which is more precise and doesn't need control resizing. But tablet mode is probably enough of a generalization.
Tablet mode sounds like you would want to use it on a tablet.
You probably would want to use it on a tablet.
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But its a tablet.
And the only way to interact with a tablet is using your finger on a touchscreen? I think not.
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What! Windows 10 isn't sophisticated enough to figure out if it is running on a tablet?
It's smart enough that when I detach my keyboard from my Surface it switches to tablet mode. But it's not smart enough to know whether I want to be using keyboard and mouse or I want to be touching the screen. It used to be far more aggressive but that annoyed users when it tried to be 'smart' and switched when people didn't want it to.
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No. Windows 7 fell out of mainstream support January 13, 2015. That means no new features. It's currently in extended support, which runs out January 14, 2020, at which point there will be no more security updates, either.
Windows 8 will probably get it as it should be in mainstream support still.
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Re:Will Edge be ported to Windows 7? (Score:4, Insightful)
Windows 7 fell out of mainstream support January 13, 2015. That means no new features.
It's a shame that Microsoft is unable to develop a browser that is not part of the operating system, as it results in disappointed customers who want to try the new version of the browser app.
.
Oddly, both Mozilla and Google seem to have the technical wherewithal to develop browsers that are not part of the operating system. I wonder why Microsoft is so incapable of such a technical accomplishment.
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Microsoft Developed the Browser using WinRT which doesn't exist in Windows 7. Both Mozilla and Google had to rewrite their browsers to support Android and iOS. That didn't just magically happen they had to devote a lot of resources to using the Android and iOS APIs. This is no different. Microsoft is moving away from Win32. Win32 had a good 20+ year run but WinRT should eventually displace it. If they didn't write Edge for WinRT developers would cry foul and say "If WinRT isn't good enough for you
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Microsoft Developed the Browser using WinRT which doesn't exist in Windows 7
So you agree that Microsoft does not have the technical ability to develop the Edge browser to run on Windows 7. It's quite interesting that Microsoft seems to be the only browser developer that has such difficulty with Windows 7.
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So you agree that Microsoft does not have the technical ability to develop the Edge browser to run on Windows 7.
No. I very clearly stated that they technically can but they evidently chose not to write their new application for a product that has reached END OF LIFE and whose successor is FREE. That's a perfectly sane decision. "hey bob should we backport our new free product to people who refuse to accept our free upgrade?" "Fuck no!" "Yeah I didn't think we should either just checking."
It's as easy to backport Edge as it is to port Chrome from Linux to OSX. You don't see Apple releasing Safari for OS 9. Sa
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Oddly, both Mozilla and Google seem to have the technical wherewithal to develop browsers that are not part of the operating system. I wonder why Microsoft is so incapable of such a technical accomplishment.
I'm certain it is our fault.
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by 2020 windows 15 should be out and i will think about updating to it then.
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Probably won't be. It's written currently for WinRT which obviously Windows 7 doesn't support and the reason Microsoft is giving you a *free* upgrade to Windows 10. So it would be a pretty radically different web browser, comparable to writing Safari for iOS vs OSX.
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Re:Windows, IE and Lifecycles (Score:4, Informative)
I still run the Zune software and have a Zune Subscription. I don't know what you're talking about, because I'm still enjoying my 10 free songs per month!
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Less than 3 1/2 years later, no more iOS updates were available on it (5.1.1 was the last version) and over time apps stopped supporting this version of the OS.
That's about the same time as there was between buying our XP netbook and Microsoft dropping support for XP.
(Not that it mattered, as I stuck an SSD in there and installed Linux soon after buying it)
Re:Another browser (Score:5, Insightful)
Nope, we just keep supporting the standards, and Edge will work just fine. If all goes well, we'll actually be able to DROP support for more older browsers as more people migrate off XP & Vista.
That's the dream, anyway. :)
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It's great when you can get away with that, but all too many companies (like where I work) have to deal with our customers as they are, not how we would wish them to be.
Re:Another browser (Score:4, Insightful)
It's great when you can get away with that, but all too many companies (like where I work) have to deal with our customers as they are, not how we would wish them to be.
It's all the people like you who are the problem. If "use something standards-compliant or have a bad experience" were the universal norm, we wouldn't have these problems.
You say that like you think it's my decision to do this. I assure you, it is not.
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pretty good...only filed about 450 bugs
Only Microsoft can lower expectations so much that 450 bugs is considered "pretty good."
Re:Quick question (Score:5, Funny)
Other than superficial UI bullshit, does Windows 10 have any features? Was there any kernel development? If so, what was produced?
Yes, they've now added an "Ex" suffix to every system call. You now have to specify an average of 17 flag constants each with a name that averages of 30 upper-case characters, as well as initialize and provide "long pointers" to an average of five large C structures for each request you make to the OS.
Re: Quick question (Score:2)
Http2 support in IIS is only available on windows 10
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I know this is completely anecdotal and very short-term data, but for the three developers we upgraded to 10 last night they haven't had a crash yet or even had to reboot because Windows becomes too slow to use. We typically reboot three times a day, so assuming they can make it another couple hours before they reboot tonight, that means they will have cut the number of reboots per day by a third! That is signification since it usually takes us almost an hour to get VisualStudio, SQL server, IIS, etc. back up and running. For our typical ten hour work day, that's three hours per day wasted! If we can cut that to one hour, we've saved ten hours per week. I'm hoping 10 remains working as well as it has so far!
That's pretty bad. If I have to reboot at all during the day I assume something is seriously wrong with the computer. I am on Windows 7, which is fairly stable. At home, I don't ever reboot Windows 7. It runs until the stupid updates makes it reboot. It literally never gets slow or crashes.
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Not true. Around 2000-ish, your only options were IE (crap), Netscape (at the end of its life it was a crashy, bloated warthog), and Opera (yay, ads). Of those three, IE was the most palatable (I'm not going to pay for a browser). Even open-source Mozilla, when it first came out, was unbearably huge. Now, when Firefox née Phoenix came out, I was done with IE forever and ever, amen. But before that it was the best of the bunch, for better or worse.
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Thank you for that insightful and informative comment which has added so much to the discussion.
Oh, wait, no it didn't, you just wanted to remind everyone that you don't own a television [theonion.com].