A Naysayer's Take On Windows 10: Potential Privacy Mess, and Worse 485
Lauren Weinstein writes: I had originally been considering accepting Microsoft's offer of a free upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10. After all, reports have suggested that it's a much more usable system than Windows 8/8.1 — but of course in keeping with the 'every other MS release of Windows is a dog' history, that's a pretty low bar. However, it appears that MS has significantly botched their deployment of Windows 10. I suppose we shouldn't be surprised, even though hope springs eternal. Since there are so many issues involved, and MS is very aggressively pushing this upgrade, I'm going to run through key points here quickly, and reference other sites' pages that can give you more information right now. But here's my executive summary: You may want to think twice, or three times, or many more times, about whether or not you wish to accept the Windows 10 free upgrade on your existing Windows 7 or 8/8.1 system.
Now that we're into the first week of widespread availability for the new version, if you're a Windows user and upgrader, has your experience been good, horrible, or someplace between?
Jumping the Sharknado! (Score:2)
Re:Jumping the Sharknado! (Score:5, Funny)
Solitaire was originally put in Windows to train users how to use a mouse.
It now functions to train users on how to find free alternatives to the software they want.
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Windows 10 released.
Solitaire is freemium
so something happened. [1]
[1] Something happened
Re:Jumping the Sharknado! (Score:5, Funny)
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freecell.exe and cards.dll FTW!
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I'm still mad they moved HOVER! [wikipedia.org] to be just a web extension... bastards.
Was there ever Windows 3.1 on CD? (Score:3)
you'll need [...] a PC emulator with a copy of Windows 3.1.
Just get Dos box
Exactly. Here's a guide to getting it working [sierrahelp.com]. But you still have to buy a genuine copy of Windows 3.1 and a USB floppy drive to read it into your DOSBox. I don't think Windows came on CD until Windows 95.
I'm surprised they missed "Wi-Fi Sense." (Score:5, Informative)
It's also enabled by default if you don't customize your installation settings and in a nutshell, does the following:
- uploads a supposedly-encrypted form of your wireless AP's password to a Microsoft server for safe-keeping
- when enabled, shares your wireless password with anyone on your Facebook, Outlook or Skype contact lists who also has it enabled
- also automatically joins you onto hotspots that your contacts share, regardless of how they are secured.
I'm beginning to understand how Microsoft can afford to offer the "new and improved" Windows as a free upgrade for a year, I'm guessing the military and surveillance agency contracts have more than paid the bill.
Re:I'm surprised they missed "Wi-Fi Sense." (Score:5, Interesting)
It'll give loads of people a way to try to get out of copyright infringement lawsuits... "Windows 10" shared my Wifi password"
Re:I'm surprised they missed "Wi-Fi Sense." (Score:4, Informative)
It shares a *hash* of your password (Slashdot of old would know the difference) with first-level friends (not friends of friends) for networks where you actively choose to. It's like given them the password, except better, because you don't.
How does that work?
Suppose the password for my wireless network is BillGates. You're saying Wi-Fi Sense stores some hash of this, let's say 510ae47865e94f0e2165, and shares that with my friend. My friend comes over to my house. How does his computer sign on to my wireless network knowing only the hash, 510ae47865e94f0e2165? That isn't the password for my network, the router isn't going to accept it.
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Re:I'm surprised they missed "Wi-Fi Sense." (Score:4, Informative)
How does his computer sign on to my wireless network knowing only the hash, 510ae47865e94f0e2165? That isn't the password for my network, the router isn't going to accept it.
In addition to my other post, to be absolutely clear your router will accept that hash*. It doesn't accept passwords, only hashes for WPA2 enabled networks. If implemented properly the router should not even store your password, only the hash of it.
That's the normal way passwords are handled - hashed and the hash used for comparison and storage. I'm kinda sad that Slashdot seems to have forgotten this and modded you up... It's basic computer security stuff. You never store or use the plaintext password.
* Okay, with WPA it actually accepts a hash of the hash, but anyway... You need the hash, not the password.
Re:I'm surprised they missed "Wi-Fi Sense." (Score:5, Informative)
> It is only enabled when you optionally check it for a specific Wi-Fi network.
True.
> It shares a *hash* of your password
False.
> (Slashdot of old would know the difference)
Depends. If you were on it, at least you wouldn't know the difference.
It shares an ENCRYPTED version. Not a hash. If it shared a hash, it wouldn't let them access it, now would it?
Hashes normally throw away data. So if you have a local /etc/shadow file with hashed passwords, you can't unscramble / unhash / decrypt them, because there's a many-to-one mapping involved. The encrypted data, on the other hand, is one to one. This is because the people you share it with have to decrypt it locally and use it. This means that it is available in plaintext on their boxes (and how that key is managed I don't know- if they screwed up anything about that, it could be decryptable in transit too).
There's a lot to complain about in Windows 10. Enough that I will never use it personally, and I was planning on upgrading to Pro before I read their absolute nightmare combo of dick-kicking bullshit.
Here's the scoop:
1) By default, this OS will leak your local data. You can opt out of this, but good luck constantly finding that setting, and having one more horrendous weight to lug around every time you have to reinstall, or use a new machine. This goes up to some microsoft account, and it includes all your favorites, any active websites at any time, etc. Again, you can opt out of this crap, but why on earth would you need to opt out of this?
2) It mentions giving law enforcement all your data if asked, which, I mean, we JUST saw that exact thing become both automated, and globally used against all Americans. Like JUST saw it. Importantly, even if somehow this isn't used for massive and warrantless data collection the next time anything bad happens anywhere, it still means that whatever this back-orifice negafeature is, will be installed in all Windows 10 systems by default, with no opt out (only a bad guy would opt out, right?), and that it will sit there waiting patiently for some black hat to hack it. Even if you are still ok with this massive overreach, just ask yourself- wouldn't it be smarter to use a product that doesn't have this built in?
3)- Many new features require you to opt in to wholesale uploading of your activities. Cortana is a huge feature of this OS, but everything from your location to *lists of played media files* is uploaded when you use this feature. You can opt out, but this disables Cortana.
4)- You can't turn off a lot of the telemetry.
The only safe way to use Windows 10 is on a fully airgapped machine. If you are interested in turning off Windows Update, auto-telemetry, and whatever that amazing law enforcement backdoor is, you'll need some rather intelligent application firewall to make that happen.
Windows 10 will be an absolute nightmare. This should have been obvious the moment that they told you that you can't turn off Windows Update- that means that they will use Windows update to turn your destkop into an X-Box load screen, with everything full of advertisements and assorted diseases. Taking out your opt-out from that was never about security, it's about ensuring that the coming advertisements hit as many eyes as possible. You'll be downloading AdBlock Desktop soon enough.
Oh, and most of this shit (especially the wholesale user monitoring) isn't enabled on the corporate boxes. Businesses, after all, have a right to privacy. Because they are more human than human, now?
It seemed too good to be true... (Score:2)
Re:It seemed too good to be true... (Score:5, Funny)
The OS farms your information? That's it, I'm going back to my Chromebook and Android tablet.
Re:It seemed too good to be true... (Score:5, Funny)
The OS farms your information? That's it, I'm going back to my Chromebook and Android tablet.
Google thanks you for your personal data and promises it will not be evil, perhaps just naughty.
Re:It seemed too good to be true... (Score:5, Funny)
That "naughty" comment has me imagining the different OS makers as hollywood highschool boyfriends now.
Microsoft: Football jock from a rich family. Has problems playing nice with those outside his little world and expects periodic gifts from you. But he does have a nice car and all the cool toys, plus his family just invited you to the bahamas for vacation.
Apple: Eccentric artist. Cute, paints, writes poetry, and can act. But has a HUGE ego due to loyal groupies. Expects you to pay for everything on dates.
Google: Reporter for the school newspaper. Nice guy, gets on well with others. Gives you lots of gifts, though some are not very well thought out. Constantly taking pictures of you, including some you really shouldn't have agreed to.
Re:It seemed too good to be true... (Score:5, Funny)
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Neither of those OS's, by default, farm you for information. Google does offer you lots of services you really want in exchange for letting them farm you... But there are alternatives and you're free to chose them.
It sounds like here, Microsoft is doing the farming at the OS level. I don't know if that's true or not, I'll wait to hear more. But if it's true, this version of Windows is DOA. It could have been the one toehold MSFT could have had to fend off Google and they're throwing it all away.
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Neither of those OS's, by default, farm you for information.
That's not possible for a Google product. The point of all Google products is to farm information from you. That's why they create the products. The default settings will always be "Upload everything to Googles server for purposes of turning you into a product to be sold".
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Re:It seemed too good to be true... (Score:4, Interesting)
The UI in 10 does look nice
That just goes to show that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. As far as I can tell, EVERYTHING has become a monochrome "white-on-dark" or "black-on-white" mid-90's style WordArt icon, to the point where you can't tell some of them apart. They look butt ugly. Why UX people these days think that removing colour from the icons/glyphs, an important visual clue as to the icon's meaning, is beyond me. I'll keep my colourful Windiows 7, thanks. It doesn't run on a mobile phone, but I don't need or want it to.
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I'm sure it's to push their integrated store on more users - while Windows 8 users already had it, Windows 7 users didn't and Microsoft wants those users to upgrade most. Now they really need to fix the store so it doesn't prioritize pay-crapware over stuff you can get completely free. 7zip is a really good example - all of the top options in the store cost money and there isn't a free option even though the Windows 7 downloadable equivalent is free. I'm sorry, but adding a touch interface to it for $25 is
stupid article (Score:2, Informative)
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Ok, I have actual hard data from my Window Update history. (Note that the upgrade was available on July 28)
Upgrade to Windows 10 Pro
Installation date: 7/28/2015 3:16 AM
Installation status: Failed
Error details: Code C1900208
Update type: Important
Install the next version of Windows.
Upgrade to Windows 10 Pro
Installation date: 7/28/2015 7:10 PM
Installation status: Failed
Error details: Code 80240020
Update type: Important
Upgrade to Windows 10 Pro
Installation date: 7/28/2015 8:07 PM
Installation status: Failed
Error
Re:stupid article (Score:5, Informative)
Had this problem on a laptop. There is a relatively simple fix. Basically, something was corrupted in the download for one reason or another. The fix is dead simple.
1) Delete all the files at C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution\Download /updatenow"
2) open cmd.exe as admin
3) run "wuauclt.exe
4) Open windows update. You'll see windows 10 downloading.
It will download the patch again.
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What did you read? (Score:5, Informative)
It could not have been TFA because there are only 2 mentions of Google in the whole post. One of those is a disclaimer that the person has consulted for Google but is not doing so presently. The other is: Being careful with your data isn't just a Microsoft thing. My views of Microsoft and Google are pretty much diametrically opposed -- I have enormous faith in Google and Googlers doing the right thing with respect to protecting the data I share with them, but even in the case of Google -- with whom I share a great deal of data -- I'm selective about what I do share.
I put the parts you didn't read or didn't pay attention to in bold so that even a moron can find them.
You would have been okay if you had said she favored Google in the article, but to claim it's a shill is completely dishonest.
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"Fools rush in where angels fear to tread." - Pope (Score:4, Insightful)
Light on details (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe it was just poorly written, but it doesn't seem like she has any specific complaints.
Then there was the odd bit about how she trusts Google, so it's okay for them to collect vast amounts of information about her.
Why is this here?
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Just ducky (Score:2)
I disapprove of the forced updates but I find having all update generally does more good than harm. I've seen updates break computers but I've seen missed updates cause more problems
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Clean installed Windows 10 Home on a new SSD which worked but I couldn't activate it. Upgraded my Windows 7 installation and activated Windows 10 on that. Went back to my new SSD and reinstalled Windows 10. It then activated. No problems with installing things on it, including the latest nVIDIA drivers (353.60).
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Go back further. Windows 95 had good reason for OSR2, and Windows 3.0 was pretty much unusable until 3.1.
Operating systems are major projects - usually the largest and most complicated piece of software on any computer. The first major version is always deeply flawed. The are just too big to get everything right first time.
Reading... how does it work? (Score:4, Informative)
So far, I have no complaints about 10. It looks nice and seems to run as smoothly as the Win7 Ultimate it replaced. Previously installed apps and games all seem to work, although I certainly haven't tried them all yet. The only stand out annoyance was that all my media file associations were reset to use stock MS applications.
you mileage may vary...
Re:Reading... how does it work? (Score:4, Insightful)
So, basically, it only sends all your stuff to Microsoft if you don't turn off that 'feature'?
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Anyway, MS certainly isn't the only one doing this data gathering these days. Opt-in by default is the way it's going to work from now on and you can't put that horse back in the barn. If people aren't reading what they are getting and choosing to opt-out then they have themselves to
The Privacy Mess is because of? (Score:4, Insightful)
Anti-Microsoft, pro-Google, and no stated reason for faith in one "doing the right thing with respect to protecting the data" while the other, apparently, will not.
Except for this:
How this suffices for posting on Slashdot with the headline tease "Privacy Mess" eludes me. Google = Bing. Google Drive = OneDrive. Chrome = Win 8+ windows-account-synced favorites and settings. Pot and Kettle both the same color, black or otherwise.
Re:The Privacy Mess is because of? (Score:5, Interesting)
I own my own domain and I give each service I sign up for a unique contact email alias, which forwards to my real email address (currently I have just shy of 500 aliases). I have never received spam at google@mydomain.com. In fact the vast majority of my email aliases receive no spam, indicating the vast majority of online companies are in fact keeping your private info private (at least not without anonymizing it). Contrary to what seems to be the general belief here.
The two major exceptions have been microsoft@mydomain.com and adobe@mydomain.com. Those two companies clearly sold my email address to marketers and spammers.
Re:The Privacy Mess is because of? (Score:4, Interesting)
The two major exceptions have been microsoft@mydomain.com and adobe@mydomain.com. Those two companies clearly sold my email address to marketers and spammers.
Can you be sure? Every now and then, I'll open up the floodgates and alias all of @domain to an account just to see what comes in. At one point I noticed a ton of spam to netflix@, and got pissed until I remembered that the email on my Netflix account isn't netflix@. That's never been a legit alias, so it's probably a dictionary style attack. Spammers are blasting shit out to netflix@<everywhere> much like the ssh bots try logging in as alice, bob, and a few thousand other users that have never existed on most systems.
Oh, editors! (Or lack thereof...) (Score:2)
Now that we're into the first week of widespread availability for the new version [...]
Didn't Windows 10 came out like yesterday (Wednesday, 7/29/2015)?
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Planned FUD post was supposed to be scheduled for next Tuesday but the author doesn't know how to use Buffer App or WordPress. :D
It's fine... from the ISO. (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't try to upgrade from Windows Update. Just don't. It'll fail. Something is borked with the download process. It'll probably be fixed in a week (or even today, maybe), but for now, to be on the safe side, just go to this link - https://www.microsoft.com/en-u... [microsoft.com] and download the ISO. Then burn it to a DVD or install it onto a USB drive of sufficient capacity, and away you go. Not sure if it would work if you mounted it to a virtual drive, but worth a try.
I updated 3 systems (a 3 year old desktop, a 2 year old laptop with hybrid graphics, and a virtual machine in VMware on a 4 year old craptop) and did not have any upgrade issues. The only problem I had was on my desktop, where I would occasionally get a MEMORY_MANAGEMENT BSOD when viewing the start menu, until I updated my AMD Catalyst drivers to the latest on the AMD site.
Some more pitfalls:
- If you have exotic or rare network cards, graphics cards or printers, you may want to hold off to see if people with your hardware have similar problems. .NET framework, kernel, or other things like that? You should probably not attempt an upgrade, especially if the vendor/developer of these changes is not a well-known commercial entity with an established footprint.
- Is your GPU (graphics card, whether it's on the CPU, on the motherboard, or an expansion card) *more than* 4 years old? If so, you may have some problems, especially if it's by Intel.
- Do you have any programs installed which install custom software into the OS kernel ("kernel modules" / "drivers")? Things like: virtualization software (VMware, Virtual Box), VPN software (OpenVPN, SSL VPN clients, etc.), certain audio / video production software, etc? If you see anything in Device Manager that isn't actually a piece of hardware and sounds like it's associated with a program you have, chances are good that the answer is "yes". You should really consider uninstalling these programs before you upgrade to reduce the potential for incompatibility in the kernel. Then you can try to install them after the upgrade is complete, where the driver will hopefully fail to load "gracefully" and error out of the installer if it turns out to be incompatible.
- Is your system *extremely* "hacked up", with extensive deep-running customizations to the UI,
Summary: If you have a computer that was purchased new with current-gen hardware within the past 4 years, and you don't have anything more than web browsers, office programs, and games installed, you should have no problems upgrading. If you have a much older computer, your risk of breakage is higher. If you have deep customizations to the OS, your risk of breakage is higher. If you're in doubt, hold off until others with similar configurations try it first and report their results. But for the love of God, use the ISO, not Windows Update, to upgrade.
Re:It's fine... from the ISO. (Score:5, Insightful)
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1. Upgrading the current PC now, or
2. Download the ISO to burn and install on another PC.
I selected option 1, let it download everything, then clicked yes when it asked to continue upgrade. It took a bit longer than I expected, but I didn't run into anything fatal. The only weird thing I ran into was when it installed the Razer Synapse app and drivers for my mouse. At th
Re:It's fine... from the ISO. (Score:4, Funny)
Don't try to upgrade from Windows Update. Just don't. It'll fail. Something is borked with the download process. It'll probably be fixed in a week (or even today, maybe), but for now, to be on the safe side,
...don't bother, unless your time is worthless to you.
just go to this link - https://www.microsoft.com/en-u [microsoft.com]... [microsoft.com] and download the ISO. Then burn it to a DVD or install it onto a USB drive of sufficient capacity, and away you go. Not sure if it would work if you mounted it to a virtual drive, but worth a try.
If you do that, the first thing it does is ask for an activation key. Your windows activation key from your original Windows media is likely to not be accepted. My 8.0 key wasn't.
Although, there is one really interesting thing you can do. Instead of creating an install ISO, take the option to just upgrade straight. Do this from a non-admin account (you know, the way you are supposed to run things for system safety). This will produce what is being argued to be the most amusing error dialog [wired.co.uk] in human history, which reads in big letters "Something Happened", and then under that in smaller letters the clarification: "Something Happened". Years from now, you can tell your grandchildren you personally got this dialog.
But if you aren't aching to participate in the meme, save yourself some aggravation and wait until MS gets their act together.
Bullshit because ... (Score:3)
... what experiments were performed and what data points gathered, and where are the conclusions based on the study?
I am not implementing Windows 10 because it is a security bitch and I'm not interested in fucking with the drivers that run my peripherals.
I will wait until the early adopters send in their reports.
There.
I just wrote the same goddam article.
yw
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I am not implementing Windows 10 because it is a security bitch
What's wrong with Windows 10 and security?
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"free" != free (Score:2)
That alone
Synching (Score:3)
From this article [thenextweb.com];
You can deactivate that by hopping into settings, but I’d argue that it should be opt-in rather than on by default. Many users won’t get round to turning it off, even though they would probably want to.
I would argue that most of the people who have an issue with the default sync option are the ones that would know how to turn it off and would do it. Conversely, most of the people that would benefit from the sync, that being most of the users of Windows 10, would not know it exists and/or how to turn it on.
Microsoft had to choose whether to cater to the average user or the security conscious user that does not trust Microsoft. Microsoft chose the former.
Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal! (Score:2)
I successfully and easily installed 10 on two machines (HP Envy laptop and a home built core2duo box) with only the slightest of hiccups. Th home home built box had a brief vid driver issue but it resolved itself within minutes.
Using TFA method, I declare Windows 10 a massive success and a beacon of hope for all computer-kind.
Bottom Line (Score:2)
Lateral move maybe? (Score:2)
Error at the start (Score:2)
I tried to use Windows 10's Media Creator to create a .iso I could burn to upgrade multiple computers. It threw the trending "Something happened" [hindustantimes.com] error message. Great start.
I later figured out that this error is thrown if you try to save the .iso to a directory junction. It's probably not the only cause, since directory junctions that aren't preinstalled are rare, but it is one of them.
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Considering an upgrade, but need more information (Score:3)
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Needs to be downloaded from the windows store as a Metro App. It's annoying as shit. The new minesweeper is more annoying than the metro menu.
Early(ish) adopter (Score:5, Interesting)
I have been running Windows 10 on my desktop for the last couple of months and it has been an interesting experience.
I am a WoW player and will sometimes jump into Dragon Age. I also played the SWBF Alpha which ran just fine. My system is an 8 core AMD CPU with a Radeon HD 7900 on an Asus ROG motherboard. There have been definite issues with system stability related to graphics drivers even though the performance has not been noticeably slower.
I was running Windows 7 before and attempted to do an in-place upgrade initially but it failed despite trying many different things. I ended up installing clean from an ISO and have been on the fast ring ever since.
I have enjoyed seeing the evolution of the desktop and the changes to the UI over the last couple of months and I am really happy with the smooth transition from insider to "RTM" bits.
I like Edge even though I will stick with Firefox until there are some key extensions available for it.
I kind of liked the "modern" version of Skype that they then took away.
I am not really sure that I like Cortana integration.... I just am not really sure how to utilize it fully.
I do REALLY like the MSA authentication and Azure cloud services integration though... It is really neat to have seamless integration between my Nokia windows phone and my desktop without having to install any 3rd party stuff.
I used to be like most /.ers and hate MS and Windows, but over the years I have changed my tune. I spent many years running a Gentoo desktop and working through all kinds of problems, but I have sort of come full circle now. My first OS was DOS 6 + Win 3.1... I bought Windows 95 on 20+ floppies then 98 then moved on to Slackware 3 and stayed in the Linux world for several years before returning to Windows 7 on my desktop.
This is the first time I have ever been a beta user of Windows and I have to say it was a fun experience.
My experience after several months... (Score:2)
I am very pleased with Windows 10. I am mainly a OS X user, since the first Mac 128. However, I have had to use Windows on occasion professionally and I play several games that require it. I do not claim that I am a good example for others, I run fairly new equipment, with lots of ram (for me, 16GB) and lots of disks (10TB total). I run multi boot, OS X 10.11, OS X 10.10, Debian, SuSE and Ubuntu, Windows 7, Windows 8.1 (couldn't stand 8) and Windows 10. I always apply all upgrades/updates I can find - I lov
Privacy (Score:3)
I read through some of the privacy documentation. Buried in the mass is basically, MS reserves the right to share your information with whomever they deem necessary. But they want to assure you they won't be abusing that right. And they want you to feel rest assured that opting to give up your privacy will give you a more pleasant experience using your computer.
Badly written blog post is bad (Score:5, Insightful)
The level of data collection and sharing enabled by default in Windows 10 is truly scary, as I mentioned in a comment yesterday (http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=7759605&cid=50205063). But that blog post is snarky and awful. There is a decent article about it, which belongs in the summary, ironically one she linked herself: http://thenextweb.com/microsof... [thenextweb.com]
There may be a valid point or two in that blog, but the Google drool all over it makes it truly terrible.
"I have enormous faith in Google and Googlers doing the right thing with respect to protecting the data I share with them"
Umm yeah...
"Users with Home versions of Win10 will be required to accept automatic updates, including drivers.
And here's a biggy. If you don't want Microsoft installing updates automatically -- if you're a user who has chosen to take control of this process up to now -- you probably will hate Win10.
In some environments, this is unacceptable from a support and security standpoint, and reports are already coming in regarding driver related issues."
The cesspool that is the average Windows Home machine can only be improved by automatic updates. Just heard from someone a couple of days ago that they disabled Windows Update completely because it made their computer slow.
Many users -- especially on somewhat under-powered systems -- may find Win10 to be a painfully slow experience compared with Win7, irrespective of MS' claims.
Weasel worded nonsense - most factual reports suggest the opposite.
First things first. It's obvious from my email today that this icon and MS pitch alone are confusing many users. They've never seen anything like this appear before and many think it's a virus or that their system has been otherwise compromised.
Ah I wish the average user was that suspicious about actual threats. That corner on the average Windows machine is taken up by about twenty background apps.
The privacy issues in Windows 10 are quite fucking terrifying, and matter far more than one more icon hidden in a corner.
The issue for me is that I use Windows because I have to, Android / iPhone / GMail / Siri / Google Now etc. are a choice. And if I am not wrong, these are all opt in, you get notices when you first start up your phone / iDevice. Also a quick read suggest Microsoft's data collection goes far beyond anything I have seen even from Google.
"Windows 10 generates a unique advertising ID for each user on each device. "
"We will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary to protect our customers or enforce the terms governing the use of the services."
tl;dr Windows 10 privacy issues are scary, but that blog post is garbage, try here: http://thenextweb.com/microsof... [thenextweb.com]
One Ring 0 to rule them all... (Score:2, Insightful)
One Ring 0 to rule them all. One ring to wiretap them.
One Ring 0 to spy on them all and in adware f... them.
Unique ad ID for every user, forced updates, harvesting and sharing our data. Come on guys, you must know where this is going. IMHO it is all targeted at future advertising and monetising us. They might have finally realised that there are tools like adblock that won't go away easily and the only sure way to present us with crap is to firstly deprive us of ways of fighting back (eg. uninstalling unwan
It's shocking- read it (Score:5, Informative)
I RTFA and read the links. They're shocking and I don't use that word casually. I am posting the direct links here with the excerpts from the license agreement.
No human being who had these explained to them in an ordinary setting by someone they knew and trusted would knowingly agree to them.
Here goes:
From:
Sign into Windows with your Microsoft account and the operating system immediately syncs settings and data to the companyâ(TM)s servers. That includes your browser history, favorites and the websites you currently have open as well as saved app, website and mobile hotspot passwords and Wi-Fi network names and passwords.
To enable Cortana to provide personalized experiences and relevant suggestions, Microsoft collects and uses various types of data, such as your device location, data from your calendar, the apps you use, data from your emails and text messages, who you call, your contacts and how often you interact with them on your device. ...
Microsoft can disclose your data when it feels like it
This is the part you should be most concerned about: Microsoftâ(TM)s new privacy policy assigns is very loose when it comes to when it will or wonâ(TM)t access and disclose your personal data:
We will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary to protect our customers or enforce the terms governing the use of the services. ....
Cortana also learns about you by collecting data about how you use your device and other Microsoft services, such as your music, alarm settings, whether the lock screen is on, what you view and purchase, your browse and Bing search history, and more.â
The author goes on to note:
Lots of things can live in those two words âoeand more.â Also note that because Cortana analyzes speech data, Microsoft collects âoeyour voice input, as well as your name and nickname, your recent calendar events and the names of people in your appointments, and information about your contacts including names and nicknames.â ....
The updated terms also state that Microsoft will collect information âoefrom you and your devices, including for example âapp use data for apps that run on Windowsâ(TM) and âdata about the networks you connect to.'â ...
Windows 10 generates a unique advertising ID for each user on each device. That can be used by developers and ad networks to profile you. ...
They intend to completely remove the notion of privacy from the tools we use to create share and store the most private thoughts we have.
This is Linux's Big Chance. People will reject this massive barefisted amoral invasion of privacy and flee- if they can get a decent computing experience out of some UNIX clone.
Not to turon this into a "What['s wrong with Linux" discussion but I have sincerely tried to move to Linux repeatedly and just found the experience awful. I am nto interested in learning a CLI to get normal stuff done-at all. The performance compared to Windows has always been terrible, my software is slow, the drivers are missing etc etc.
Perosnally I feel like Ubuntu is somehow in the thrall of a culutre of devs who are not interested in accomodating the masses and take it as a point of pride that finding getting installing and using applications still requires exiting to a CLI, which knowledge they love. Yes, many of them do want to share the love with you, but many people wanted me to share their love the Grateful Dead's music with me too and the thing is, I just don't like it.
Seems like a good OS, but requires you to give up (Score:4, Interesting)
your constitutional right to a trial. They make you agree to binding arbitration instead. (Section 10 of the EULA).
That one really burns me. It's pretty unAmerican to say "Give up a constitutional right or you can't use our product." (Was that there before?)
How can this be legal? There's got to be a way around that. I have no intentions of ever suing Microsoft, but this rubs me the wrong way. What's next, you have to give up your right to freedom of speech?
So far (Score:3)
and......
so far......
I'm not hating it. Holy shit - I'm not hating it! I have been able to find my way around, the whack-a-mole Windows 8 system controls are gone, and I haven't had to go to the internet once to find out how to do something, also a W8 SOP.
But I set up and used some programs I expected might have trouble, and did a remote cotrol session across the country training a person, and it all worked. I'll note that there are a few things yet I'm really concerned about, like the update process, and Wi-fi sense.
And lest anyone call me a shill, I'm an old school Microsoft basher.
But I could actually use this damn thing. sheesh, I need a beer now, I'm all shook up....
Re:Really? (Score:4, Insightful)
This is Slashdot. Don't expect anything sensible or even half reasonable about Microsoft here.
Re: (Score:3)
An invitation to bash Microsoft -- looks like Dice finally found out what topics their readership enjoys hearing about. However, it only gets 4.5 stars because they forgot to replace the S with a $.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I've been running Windows 10 on a couple of systems that are six years old. Boot and shutdown times markedly better than Windows 7.
As I understand it, that's because Window 8 and above don't actually shut down, they do some weird partial hibernate thing.
Besides, my Windows 7 box boots in under ten seconds anyway. Most of that is in the BIOS.
Re: (Score:3)
No, he understands correctly, at least for some systems.
I ran into this, in the form of what looked like a fairly serious battery self-discharge problem on a low-end Windows 8 (upgraded IMMEDIATELY to 8.1) laptop.
I queried the vendor about it. They checked into it, and came back with "That's by design. The computer never actually really shuts off, so it is ALWAYS sucking at least a small amount of current, either out of the wall or out of the battery."
HORRIBLE design on SOMEBODY'S part.
Re:Really? (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, lets run down the arguments in the article:
"It's obvious from my email today that this icon and MS pitch alone are confusing many users."
Ok, this actually has nothing to do with Windows 10 itself. It's a valid point as far as it goes, but how exactly was MS supposed to inform the affected users that the Windows 10 update was available?
"If you decide you do not wish to upgrade to Win10 now, you may want to get rid of that notification. MS doesn't tell you how (surprise!) and the procedure can range from relatively simple to "a real mess" "
Again, not actually about Windows 10. In fact it's about how to avoid Windows 10, which MS wants people to see as simply another update a la "Update Tuesday", though granted a major one.
"Many users -- especially on somewhat under-powered systems -- may find Win10 to be a painfully slow experience compared with Win7, irrespective of MS' claims."
Big citation needed. There's no evidence that Windows 10 performs worse on low power systems and there's significant evidence that it performs better.
"Worse, some functionalities important to many users are missing. If you use Windows Media Center -- that's gone from Win10. DVD playback is currently problematic."
I guess I don't know about this one. I do know I was able to play DVD's on the technical previews without issue.
"And here's a biggy. If you don't want Microsoft installing updates automatically -- if you're a user who has chosen to take control of this process up to now -- you probably will hate Win10."
Ok, here we have arguably the first real problem. MS has botched Windows updates in the past. Being able to block them and roll them back is how those situations have been limited and fixed. Lumping drivers into this forced upgrade schedule... as a laptop user this makes me nervous. Laptop drivers can be quite finicky and I don't always blindly trust newer versions when they land.
"In some environments, this is unacceptable from a support and security standpoint, and reports are already coming in regarding driver related issues."
Going back to FUD again... the automatic, unblockable upgrades only applies to Home users. If you're using Home editions in a corporate environment you're gonna have a bad time. It's also probably against your license agreement and can land you in trouble (right or not) with the licensing boards.
"The details are buried down in the new Win10 privacy policy/user agreement, but the bottom line is that by default Win10 will be sending a lot of your data from your computer to Microsoft that they never had access to before." (Data syncing by default)
We're back on track! This is a real issue potentially. I'd prefer this were more explicitly spelled out during install and the user given more fine grained control over things. Sending all your docs and data to a 3rd party by default without informed consent should be illegal IMO. The fact that you can turn the features off mitigates things, but doesn't really solve them.
Re: (Score:3)
It should be noted that no updates will go out to regular users until they have been vetted through several rings of testing, including over a million people in the Insider Program. Not quite a guarantee that there won't be any problems, but it's not quite so reckless as it's often made to sound.
I was in the Insiders Program since last October. It was fun testing the new builds as they came out, but... I'm sticking with Windows 7. No doubt I'll get 10 on my next computer, and I know how to make it work the
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Really? (Score:5, Insightful)
And thus does opt-out rear its ugly head, yet again. Not only that, if what you write is true the average user won't even know that it's happening, that they can stop it or that they have any control whatsoever over what gets sent to the cloud. Now, consider what happens when you're on limited bandwidth and you get a bill for far more traffic than you can account for. If I ran Windows (I don't.) this would be one more reason for me to avoid Windows 10 like the plague.
Re:Really? (Score:5, Informative)
Just a small part of the EULA (there's lots of other juicy parts):
Usage and connectivity data. Microsoft regularly collects basic information about your Windows device including usage data, app compatibility data, and network and connectivity information. This data is transmitted to Microsoft and stored with one or more unique identifiers that can help us recognize an individual user on an individual device and understand the device's service issues and use patterns.
The data we collect includes:
The software (including drivers and firmware supplied by device manufacturers), installed on the device.
App use data for apps that run on Windows (including Microsoft and third party apps), such as how frequently and for how long you use apps, which app features you use most often, how often you use Windows Help and Support, which services you use to sign into apps, and how many folders you typically create on your desktop.
Network and connection data, such as the device's IP address, number of network connections in use, and data about the networks you connect to, such as mobile networks, Bluetooth, and identifiers (BSSID and SSID), connection requirements and speed of Wi-Fi networks you connect to.
Other hardware devices connected to the device.
Some diagnostic data is vital to the operation of Windows and cannot be turned off if you use Windows.
That's at least as bad as Google/Facebook. Thankfully other operating systems respect your privacy at least a little bit...
Re: (Score:3)
Unless you have a cable card that needs the DRM in WMC go and have a look at KODI. Chances are it even natively supports your remote, given that for a while there Microsoft made by far the best remote and receiver combo. I currently run Kodi on linux machines using microsoft MCE remotes and IR receivers.
Re:Really? (Score:5, Informative)
Okay look, a lot of this is bullshit.
Account Info privacy setting is staying disabled. It hasn't turned it back on.
Windows Defender can't be disabled because it DISABLES ITSELF when you install another antivirus. The exact same way it worked in Windows 8.
You CAN disable automatic updates for drivers.
Actually, let me repeat that in all caps.
YOU CAN DISABLE AUTOMATIC UPDATES FOR DRIVERS.
The control just isn't under updates. It's actually in the same place it is in Windows 7 - open the Devices and Printers control panel, right-click the icon for your computer, select Device Installation Settings, choose 'No, let me choose what to do' and 'Never install driver software from Windows Update'.
Granted, this does mean it doesn't even offer you the updates, but if you don't want drivers from Windows Update, you don't have to get them.
You can turn off the ads in the start menu.
You can turn off sharing your wifi password with people. (Though it's still bad - if you give your password to someone, they might share it.)
The 'keylogger' in that imgur pic's toggle is ghosted not because you can't turn it off, but because that service is entirely disabled by some other setting the guy's made. Probably the one that turns off Cortana.
There's plenty to dislike about Windows 10 without making up crap. Me, I hate the lack of subfolders in the Start menu. (My gog.com games folder has about 25 entries for 'Manual.pdf' because the menu ignores the per-game subfolders. Augh.)
Re:Really? (Score:4, Insightful)
My views of Microsoft and Google are pretty much diametrically opposed -- I have enormous faith in Google and Googlers doing the right thing with respect to protecting the data I share with them
Right. Of those two companies, only one has pretty much built their entire business model around harvesting your data 6 ways from Sunday, and the other one hasn't.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
Harvesting data and not misusing the data are two different concepts.
Google have harvested more data on users than any other company in history, but I have far more faith that my data is in good hands with them than a company that is actively hostile towards users. One company is at the forefront of encryption and protecting the chanel between you and them, the other has released the single buggiest and most heavily exploited software in history.
Re:Really? (Score:5, Funny)
2 seconds?! Utter rubbish. My Linux machine boots 10 seconds BEFORE I press the power button.
WWBD? (Score:2)
This.
Unless the article is quite lengthy and repetitively redundant and a shameless presentation of self-promotion, and authored by Bennett Haselton, it has to be pure bullshit.
Re:Really? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
The page states that when only a metered connection is available, "Windows Update will only download priority updates."
Yes, but what happens when Microsoft decides that skype is a "priority update" ?
Re: (Score:3)
Having to jump through hoops to try to trick the OS into not running updates when you dont want them to run is asinine.
I don't see how telling the operating system which connections are unsuitable for bulk downloads is "tricking" the operating system.
Re:Really? (Score:4, Insightful)
Apparently this also applies to driver updates, which have a much greater chance to brick your system, or at least prevent games you played yesterday from running today.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
That is all they had to do, make security updates required, the others user selectable. Could make them level 1=security, 2=bugfixes, 3=features, 4=drivers, etc. They could look at the Linux Mint updater for ideas.
Sooo easy even a megalomanic CEO could understand.
Re: (Score:3)
Suddenly Pro isn't good enough to allow me to control MY computer?
Who says it's YOUR computer? Just because you paid for it, you think it's YOUR computer? It's no more YOUR computer than your smartphone is YOUR phone.
It's Microsoft's (or Apple's) computer. It's the cellphone carrier's phone. They are nice enough to allow you to pay for it, and allow you to use it --- but in return for those privileges, you've got to toe the line and follow the rules.
YOUR computer, indeed. The CEOS are laughing at you at this very moment, patting themselves on the back because they've allo
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I had a similar issue on one of my systems. Windows 10 had a built-in driver for the Intel ICH series controller on the motherboard but not the Intel SAS controller I had. I simply installed the same driver that I
Re: (Score:2)
Even the article doesn't mention the "privacy mess" too much. It mentions the "Wi-Fi Password Sharing" non-issue, says "by default Win10 will be sending a lot of your data from your computer to Microsoft that they never had access to before", and then references ANOTHER article that details what settings Windows 10 has that might be used for privacy invasions (but might also be used for feature enhancements). If you're going to claim that there's a privacy issue, at least give more of a summary instead of
Re: (Score:3)
A link in the article linked lists the problematical parts of the Microsoft privacy policy and user agreement:
http://thenextweb.com/microsof... [thenextweb.com]
"The Privacy Statement and Services Agreements combined come to 45 pages. Microsoft’s deputy general counsel, Horacio Gutierrez wrote that they are'“straightforward terms and polices that people can clearly understand'.”
Re: (Score:2)
I initially read that as
I have erroneous faith in Google and Googlers doing the right thing with respect to protecting the data I share with them
Heh.
Re:She's a little crazy (Score:4, Informative)
She says she doesn't trust Microsoft with her information, but Google? She approves of them faithfully
Why didn't you include the whole quote from the post:
My views of Microsoft and Google are pretty much diametrically opposed -- I have enormous faith in Google and Googlers doing the right thing with respect to protecting the data I share with them,
But I guess all you really wanted to do, was to spin it so she looked foolish (just look what you used as a title for your post) -- which tells me you aren't here to have a constructive discussion and I cannot fathom why ANYONE would mod your post as insightful.
Re: (Score:2)
he's been shilling for Microsoft ever since his account was created.
I'm a shill for Microsoft? Thanks for the best laugh I've had all day, man.
Re: (Score:2)
tldr; Dont trust Microsoft, Trust Google!
No kidding. He lost me with that one!
Re: (Score:2)
Perhaps there will be some report on Linux with a positive spin on it.