Sony Decides Its Waterproof Xperia Phones Are Not Actually Waterproof 136
Mark Wilson writes: Sony seems determined on confusing its customers by giving very conflicting advice about its Xperia smartphones. If you're familiar with the range, you'll no doubt be aware of the advertising material that appears to show users taking photos in the rain and even (seemingly) underwater at the pool. Take a look at the picture above and you'd probably assume that a) it depicts someone shooting a video or taking a photo in a swimming pool, and b) you can do the same with your phone. But you'd be wrong (at least on b) because Sony has changed its mind about what waterproof means. Or it doesn't know. It really depends on where you look on the Sony website.
legally, it's "puffery" (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
and legal.
The real problem is the utter idiocy of the "IP" standards. They're just not meaningful for consumers.
In fact, real waterproof dive watches are not even covered under this bullshit standard. The scale pretty much stops beyond 1.5M water pressure.
I'm not sure exactly what body makes up the "IP" standards board, but what does seem apparent is that the standard scales have been designed such that the industry can claim things to be "waterproof" without having to actually be waterproof by any standard the
Re: (Score:2)
You are mistaken. IP standards aren't idiotic, but they never were meant for the consumers. It is a protection standard for industrial electric stuff, like the consoles of heavy machinery, light switches in swimming pools, on-board computers of trucks and so on.
Re: (Score:2)
You are mistaken.
If I am mistaken, them I am only slightly so. It may be that the standards weren't meant for consumers, but then it's idiotic to use them as consumer standards.
That's basically what I meant: for the most part it makes little sense to use it for consumer products.
Re: (Score:2)
Well, this rating is more for the industry so the consumer grade products can be used in certain industrial settings.
Like, for example, consumer grade phones for vehicle tracking. An IP67 phone is what some companies use for that, although for certain use cases the hardware has to have an ATEX certification (say vehicle tracking for fuel trucks), but there are manufacturers that, in fact, repackage consumer phones and tablets into ATEX compliant casing.
My Xperia Z2 is waterproof without question (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:1, Interesting)
If the warranty doesn't cover it, it shouldn't appear in advertising materials. Overclocking processors generally voids the warranty and in general overclocking isn't something that appears in marketing materials for most or all processors. There may be a mention of the processor being unlocked, but they don't usually mention that it can be overclocked to whatever level.
In this case, they shouldn't be advertising the phone as being waterproof if they're not going to cover damage that results. Same goes for
Re:My Xperia Z2 is waterproof without question (Score:4, Interesting)
Overclocking processors generally voids the warranty and in general overclocking isn't something that appears in marketing materials for most or all processors.
Actually the box of my AMD FX-8320 reads:
The joke is when you read the included papers inside of the box:
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Those processors are likely designed to safely shutdown before any damage happens. And the company is cool with collecting premium for unlocked devices and paying for replacement in rare cases the chip is fried.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
This is warranty semantics, nothing more or less.
Doesn't that worry you? Say one of the seals fails under water and your phone dies. Seems like Sony will try to wriggle out of honouring the warranty, otherwise why include this language at all?
Re: (Score:2)
This is warranty semantics, nothing more or less.
Doesn't that worry you? Say one of the seals fails under water and your phone dies. Seems like Sony will try to wriggle out of honouring the warranty, otherwise why include this language at all?
They can't wriggle out of legally required minimum warranties. That is why we have them here. The text can usually be ignored. Apple got fined in several countries when their sales and support people quoted their warranty text as that was deliberately misleading customers to believe they have less warranty than the EU minimum.
Of course if the warranty is not requied, well - then the company can drop for any stupid reason they see fit.
Re: (Score:2)
I agree, it won't hold up in court, but the fact that it is there suggests that Sony are trying to get out of warranty repairs and will offer resistance when you try to claim. I'd rather buy from someone else who will be reasonable about it.
Re: (Score:2)
I know because I've used it underwater multiple times without the slightest ill effect. This is warranty semantics, nothing more or less.
Warranty semantics are important if you're trying to get service under warranty.
It's not officially supported (Score:5, Funny)
you need to root the phone to make it waterproof.
Re: (Score:2)
It's iOS 8 you need to install to make it waterproof.
Truck Commercials (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
What is a warranty voiding activity on a truck? Mine has been off road a bit (camping mostly, not 4 wheeling) and I have never heard once about there being any issues with off road usage of a truck.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm afraid to try (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Honestly, I wish I dunked my Z2 the day it came in the mail. This way, if there was a problem, I could just chargeback. (I bought it straight from Sony.) Otherwise, the wettest I've gotten it is to dip a corner.
A chargeback doesn't get you off the hook from paying - it only returns the money to your credit card if the credit card company decides in your favor (they usually do, because why not? They just take the money from the merchant's holdback, and it's not like the merchant can go elsewhere, he has to accept major credit cards).
However, the merchant is free to pursue you through legal means to collect the debt.
Re: (Score:2)
I don't think it would have come to that. The chargeback is just final recourse if Sony didn't honor their warranty.
Re: (Score:2)
Used my Z2 in swimming pools extensively several times. Still works fine. Just make sure the flaps are snug.
Re: (Score:2)
The USB port and SD card port have plastic flaps to keep the water out. The phone has a proprietary magnetic connector that doesn't need a flap for charging, though. Fortunately, there's plenty of knock-off connectors on Amazon for a few bucks.
It's actually pretty cool, I picked up a cheap stand that I use to charge the phone at night, and I have a Sony car stereo that holds the phone in its magnetic connector.
Re: (Score:2)
I don't recommend shooting your servers (Score:2)
It appears that it does meet the long-established standard, and Sony explains what the standard requires. The ad showing the person in the swimming pool may be a bit questionable , though. On that note ...
We offer an inexpensive hot spare service, so that if anything happens to your server, our copy takes over. Right at the top of the order form, it says clearly that this is designed to be an inexpensive service, to provide great value. Everything is therefore fully automated and nobody has tested it
Lol nothing new here. (Score:2)
These is what should be used. (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Why doesn't anyone make a completely sealed phone? (Score:2)
Between wireless charging and bluetooth there is no need for ports or air spaces inside the device. Customers get a cool scuba diving phone and manufacturers end up with much better reputation and lower repair costs for water/sand/dust damage. Win-win!
Re: (Score:2)
A sealed phone as you describe means a battery that is not user serviceable. I am strongly in the "a device's battery should be user serviceable" camp.
Re: (Score:2)
I don't see how that's relevant. Not everybody wants a user serviceable battery, and many phones don't have that, so it isn't a need.
My experience with the xperia z3 compact (Score:1)
I took the phone into a 45 min cenote swim trip in cancun and it's still working (I'm typing on it now). I took pictures and video but the touchscreen was flaky when wet. It mostly sat in my pocket under water.
However I did develop corrosion in the headphone jack within a week. This made the jack useless until I tried lemon juice (fail) and later vinegar (ftw) to fix it.
Before my purchase, advertising said you could take video underwater. Photos showed a guy underwater with it. But Sony's later backpedaling
My Xperia Z1 woes (Score:2)
I bought an Xperia Z1 from swappa for $150 (to replace my aging Samsung Galaxy S) and it was a pretty good phone. Now I can barely use the thing without bluetooth as the microphones are wonky and 50% of the time I use the damn thing to call someone they can't hear me. I did put it under running water a couple of times (made sure all the little rubber gaskets were secure and rinsed it for 2 seconds in tape water). I'm not sure if that borked up the 2 microphones or not.
Le sigh.
Dunk safety (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't want a phone I can use underwater. I want a phone that will be fine if I accidentally drop it in water, get pushed into a swimming pool or get drenched in a rainstorm. As long as the common accidents are survivable, I'll be happy.
Re: (Score:2)
I use the Kyocera Brigadier. I previously used the Moto Razr M. The Razr worked great when wet, though I did lose the speakerphone mic when it was soaking wet in the rain once, but it came back after drying out a bit.
Both of those phones are advertised as waterproof, and both still work (my son is using my old Razr after breaking his Moto X's screen). There are phones out there that actually are waterproof, it is just that Sony is an asshole I guess.
More like splash proof (Score:1)
A friend had older model and got somehow tricked by advertising, decided to dive to sea with it.
They restored the SD card, it actually has video of fish checking it out.
I own one and it is indeed waterproof (Score:2)
I've owned a Z3 compact for a year. Best phone I've ever had. Not because of the waterproofing but due to the awesome battery life and small (in today's terms) size. But that's just by my criteria.
As other owners of the line have noted above: yes I do use it while having a bath, and I casually wash it off under tap water. Never taken it to a pool, though it has been submerged in the bathtub (though the depth would be something like 10cm). Would I try to take an underwater photo? Yes, I wouldn't think twic
No phones are waterproof (Score:2)
I had a Galaxy XCover 2 that got water damaged after filming underwater.
I brought it to the service center and they basically told me that waterproof phones are actually not meant to be used underwater, that they get them regularly and they are often not covered by warranty. I think they even said "false advertizing" explicitly.
They sent my phone back to Samsung and I got a replacement for free so I guess I was lucky.
"Waterproof" is a relative safety feature but don't expect more.
Re:Mountains and Mole Hills... (Score:5, Insightful)
"Fluff" and "Puffery" are one thing. Explicitly showing people doing things the device can not do is plain false advertising.
Re: (Score:3)
Been going on since advertising was invented. And if you honestly looked at this phone and said "now I can take my phone snorkling", well, that's a problem at your end.
Doesn't make it legal or okay. It turns out false advertising is a thing society does a little bit to punish.
Of course, the practical result is more puffery. Advertising has evolved over the last century to present as little information as possible so that none of it is false.
Re: (Score:2)
As an owner of this phone says below, it's warranty semantics:
gweilo8888: I know because I've used it underwater multiple times without the slightest ill effect. This is warranty semantics, nothing more or less.
...and...
willworkforbeer: Ads for trucks often show warranty-voiding off road activities. It's not CGI, the trucks will DO the stuff in the ad, but you're probably SOT (Spot Outta Truck) when you break it that way.
Nothing to see here.
Re: (Score:3)
willworkforbeer: Ads for trucks often show warranty-voiding off road activities. It's not CGI, the trucks will DO the stuff in the ad, but you're probably SOT (Spot Outta Truck) when you break it that way.
Nothing to see here.
And what, exactly, are they showing trucks doing that voids their warranties?
If I break a tie-rod end off-road they'll replace it. If I snap a ball joint they'll replace it and will probably fix the bent wheel opening molding and fender that resulted. If the steering gearbox or rack-and-pinion fail they'll replace those unless they failed as a direct result of striking a rock with the housing itself.
Same goes for axle shafts, axle housings, springs, even driveshafts, depending on the cause. Most tr
Re: (Score:3)
Unless you lift it. Than you're on your own.
But don't kid yourself, very few new trucks on the trails. Paint is too shiny.
Re: (Score:2)
But you're certainly correct, very few new trucks and SUVs are out on the trails, and very few new vehicles are heavily modified. I'm mulling getting a 2000 or so Cherokee and putting a bit of work into it; I've seen very nice 4x4 examples with low miles and not for as expensive as one might dread. Throw a m
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Lockers on an independent suspension truck are pretty much guaranteed to break something. Plan on swapping in a real front axle.
Re: (Score:2)
willworkforbeer: Ads for trucks often show warranty-voiding off road activities. It's not CGI, the trucks will DO the stuff in the ad, but you're probably SOT (Spot Outta Truck) when you break it that way.
Nothing to see here.
And what, exactly, are they showing trucks doing that voids their warranties? If I break a tie-rod end off-road they'll replace it. If I snap a ball joint they'll replace it and will probably fix the bent wheel opening molding and fender that resulted. If the steering gearbox or rack-and-pinion fail they'll replace those unless they failed as a direct result of striking a rock with the housing itself. Same goes for axle shafts, axle housings, springs, even driveshafts, depending on the cause. Most truck and true-SUV manufacturers also have either options for underbody skid protection or OEM-aftermarket skid plates specifically for these applications. Obviously if I sideswipe a tree they're not going to repair and repaint the side of the truck or replace the glass, that's a given. If the truck is sold as a serious off-road vehicle then there's an expectation that it'll do the job that it's marketed for and that the manufacturer will, to at least an extent, stand behind it.
Sure they'll fit it, but it won't likely be covered by the warranty - it'll likely be at your cost. Why? At a minimum, normal wear and tear is not covered by warranty. No different than my Mazda3 which, despite Mazda having a program for racers, explicitly states that racing will void the warranty. The Mazda3 is a popular vehicle for Rally Racing, and it will certainly do it. They also have had a bunch of ads - including some you find at the dealer - showing it doing stuff that they don't generally recommen
Re: (Score:2)
That kind of treatment isn't the same as someone out on the rocky trail or in the dry riverbed that has slowed down to match the terrain they're crossing.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: Mountains and Mole Hills... (Score:1)
Re:Mountains and Mole Hills... (Score:4, Insightful)
Do you know what false advertising is in fact? "A reasonable person must believe it." Catch 22; no reasonable person would believe any advertising so it is hard to get a conviction. Here it might be more cut and dry because they claim an IP68 standard which does mean something. Either way I'd rather have a phone that tries to IP68 than one that doesn't. I've had a S3 Active and I took a lot of underwater video with it but I seated my cover correctly every time. The new Sony have a open USB port that is IP68 or was obviously until a rational engineer told the marketing folks that that they cannot claim X. I honestly have NO IDEA why we need any ports on any phone at all. Sure I love me some 2 batteries but with Qi, NFC, Wifi, Cloud Sync, Chromecast et al. I would be happy having all those things like USB, SIM, SD, and whatever under screw down o-ring bezels.
Re: (Score:3)
IP68 is itself quite vague. It's rated for continuous submersion, but that could mean 10cm of clean water for 5 minutes or it could mean 30m in the sea indefinitely. The worry for consumers is that if the phone dies due to a poor seal Sony can claim that the water was too acidic, had chlorine or salt in it, submersion was below 1.5m etc.
Re:Mountains and Mole Hills... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
There are plenty of places in the U.K. where you can go wind surfing on FRESH WATER. It quite clearly states in all the materials for all the waterproof Z series that it *EXCLUDES* salt water. For some you can dung it in chlorinated water, but that comes with a warning to rinse thoroughly in fresh water, and that the seals may become corroded over time if you do it a lot.
Note that the as time has progressed the Z series phones have become more waterproof than before. So the upcoming Z5 is a lot more waterp
Re: (Score:1, Insightful)
Been going on since advertising was invented. And if you honestly looked at this phone and said "now I can take my phone snorkling", well, that's a problem at your end.
Actually the problem isn't on my end.
If I pay for of full tank of gas I expect to get a full tank of gas. If I buy a pound of meat then I expect it to be a full pound. If the seller fails to deliver then there is a problem and it is the sellers responsibility to correct that problem.
If I buy a waterproof phone and a non-waterproof phone is delivered then that is no different from me buying a 1TB harddrive and getting a 100GB one.
It could be an honest mistake by the seller and I will be fine with them correc
Re:Mountains and Mole Hills... (Score:5, Informative)
IP68 is...
6 Dust tight No ingress of dust; complete protection against contact (dust tight)
8 Immersion beyond 1 m The equipment is suitable for continuous immersion in water under conditions which shall be specified by the manufacturer. However, with certain types of equipment, it can mean that water can enter but only in such a manner that it produces no harmful effects.
No mention of salt so fuck snorkling. If it is not made out of a sealed portless glass block. marine grade stainless or brass it is not going in the ocean. But i've dropped more than one phone out of a chest pocket into a stream pong or river. It if makes it through that it is better than the alternative.
Re: (Score:2)
I took a Fujifilm Finepix XP series camera scuba diving in the ocean, are you saying that the plastic used in that isn't waterproof in saltwater? I was actually quite impressed, it survived much deeper than I expected it to, and still functions now.
I am not sure the exact model I have, but this is much the same:
http://www.fujifilm.com/produc... [fujifilm.com]
Things don't have to be stainless, glass or brass to survive salt water, you just have to be sure to rinse it off afterwards.
Re: (Score:2)
As long as you drop it "gently"...
From Xperia blog:
Sony devices that are tested for their waterproof abilities are placed gently inside a container filled with tap water and lowered to a depth of 1.5 metres.After 30 minutes in the container, the device is gently taken out and its functions and features are tested.
Re: (Score:2)
Luckily there are laws that protect consumers from people like you.
They show someone taking a photo with it underwater in a pool and it really cant? Absolutely liable for damages under the letter of the law.
Re:Mountains and Mole Hills... (Score:4, Informative)
You can. If you make sure every plug is in place.
The kicker is that water inside is used as evidence that you had a plug out.
Re: (Score:2)
Indeed. I have an Xperia Z2. Great phone, I love it (although definitely get a protector! The glass never ever scratches but it will break if you drop it too much/too hard/sit on it at a bad angle/whatnot). But the waterproofness is conditional on the plug over the USB port being in. But the plug likes to come out sometimes. So, you're probably fine if you check the plug and make sure it's fully secure before you get in the water, and don't fiddle too much with it. But it's certainly possible to screw up.
Th
Re: (Score:2)
I agree
They could make a completely sealed phone. No need for any plugs of any type. Wireless charging plus all of the communications protocols means you never have to plug anything into the phone. Just seal it up tight.
I don't think I've plugged my Nexus 5 phone into anything for more than a year.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Z1 is also plugless for the headphones.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
If I could change one thing about the phone, I'd gladly give up the USB port and just use inductive charging in order to have the waterproofing be more reliable. I never transfer data over USB.
No need. For example, the new Moto G (2015 model) that was just released has some water resistant features (1 meter/3ft for 30 minutes) as well. Only, it has no plug for the USB as it uses a new method to allow the USB to be exposed even during immersion.
Now their purpose if more for those who accidentally drop the phone in water; but I doubt that would really change anything related to the USB port.
Also, the lack of a USB port would be a problem as you wouldn't be able to diagnose a faulty device wit
Re:Mountains and Mole Hills... (Score:5, Interesting)
The kicker is that water inside is used as evidence that you had a plug out.
Indeed. My experience with the equally waterproof-but-oh-not-actually Galaxy S6 Active:
...
Me: I've had it underwater for a few minutes total, to a depth of a foot at most. It flipped its shit, the screen bugs out and it thinks a Galaxy Gear is plugged into it.
Customer Service Rep: OK. Take the SIM tray out. Is the ring white or red?
Me: Red.
CSR: Well that's proof that water has gotten into the phone, so unfortunately there's nothing we can do for you.
Me: The red ring is proof you've sold me a defective product. You advertise it as able to withstand water under the conditions in which I've used it. Your own commercial has this device getting doused in ketchup, dropped hard, and then dunked into a bowl of milk. Water getting in means it didn't function as advertised.
CSR: You must've used it wrong.
Me: Everything was perfectly secured and I used it in a way supported by the manual and your advertising materials. You even have an "Aqua Mode" explicitly for taking pictures underwater.
CSR:
Me: If you don't make this right, I'm just going to dispute the charge on this defective product.
CSR: Unfortunately there's nothing I can do.
They ended up with their defective phone back and I ended up with my money back. PITA, though.
Re: (Score:1)
They show someone taking a photo with it underwater in a pool and it really cant?
They never said it can't, they said you shouldn't. Big difference.
Again, refer to truck commercials.
Re:Mountains and Mole Hills... (Score:5, Interesting)
The really funny commercials are for cars. It shows a car driving calmly down the road, and the small print says: "Professional driver on a closed course. Do not attempt."
Don't attempt what? Driving down the road? Isn't that what the car is for?
Maybe the Sony phone thing is the same level of CYA boilerplate from lawyers.
Re: (Score:2)
Sony has at one point sued its **fucking self** take that in to account.
Re: (Score:2)
The only truck commercial I can think of that was literally impossible was the Toyota (can't remember which) getting his by a meteor and coming out of the crater. What truck commercials show trucks doing things that are clearly not supposed to be done?
Re: (Score:2)
Been going on since advertising was invented. And if you honestly looked at this phone and said "now I can take my phone snorkeling", well, that's a problem at your end.
If there were no mention beyond what was normally expected from a cellphone, I would say yes. However, the pics and the marketing materials expressly suggest that it is possible to "now I can take my phone snorkeling". Sony is still weak from the hack (that was far overdue and well deserved). Their Legal department fears people who take their phone snorkeling and it dies on them because it was inappropriately sealed, and then sue. So they backpedaled.
However, that shows a) they lied on the marketing which
Re: (Score:2)
"now I can take my phone snorkeling"
While most snorkeling is close to the surface, it's extremely easy to go beyond 1 meter, especially when entering the water from a boat (as is often the case, especially for those doing so on vacation and guided tours). You're also very likely to forget, and dive a little further (2-3 meters is easy to do) to look at rocks, marine life, etc too.
One reason why sports watches typically are 100 meter water resistant, and dive watches even more so.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
"Fluff" and "Puffery" are one thing. Explicitly showing people doing things the device can not do is plain false advertising.
Isn't a large amount of advertisements out there patently false? Look at the claims made by supplement vendors and diet pill pushers. How do you know a marketing guy is lying? His lips are moving ...
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
"Fluff" and "Puffery" are one thing. Explicitly showing people doing things the device can not do is plain false advertising.
Isn't a large amount of advertisements out there patently false? Look at the claims made by supplement vendors and diet pill pushers. How do you know a marketing guy is lying? His lips are moving ...
As noted by http://tech.slashdot.org/comme... [slashdot.org], the USA has truth in advertising laws - both at the Federal and State levels for most States.
That said, advertisers can get around it somewhat by disclosures in the ads, which are typically in fine print shown for the duration of the activity that they are not recommending, advising, etc. Same with the diet stuff where they disclose that results may vary, etc. However, they usually have to also have stuff that backs up the general case - IOW, they can't use
Re:Mountains and Mole Hills... (Score:4, Funny)
Maybe it's like one of those commercials where beer doesn't taste like piss and void the warranty on your liver, and instead is a delicious and refreshing beverage that causes hot chix to like you.
Re: (Score:1)
Look, we all know that marketing materials are fluff, and should not be relied upon when buying or using a piece of equipment.
The problem is that "we all" don't know that; in fact there are so many millions of people who don't know that, we have a Federal Trade Commission with the authority to regulate marketing materials. Sony's advertising explicitly infers using this phone to take photos of someone underwater in a swimming pool. If the phone is not intended or designed to be used that way, then depicting that exact activity in marketing materials is not okay.
It seems fairly obvious to me that by "water proof" they mean "water resistant" and they make it clear that it is not designed for dedicated underwater use such as a GoPro-like device. But you can probably still drop it in your toilet and it will work after being fished out.
It was obvious to me that those Enzyte pills with "Smiling Bob" were s
Re: (Score:2)
Thousands of consumer complaints were made to the Better Business Bureau about the company's business practices, especially the "autoship" program that repeatedly charged customers' credit cards for refills even after they canceled their orders.
Re: (Score:2)
Um, the picture is in TFA, the first one. That is the Sony advertising showing the phone being used in a FREAKING POOL.
Re: (Score:2)
7
Immersion up to 1 m
Ingress of water in harmful quantity shall not be possible when the enclosure is immersed in water under defined conditions of pressure and time (up to 1 m of submersion). Test duration: 30 minutes
Tested with the lowest point of the enclosure 1000 mm below the surface of the water, or the highest point 150 mm below the surface, whichever is deeper.
Re:Mountains and Mole Hills... (Score:5, Informative)
Look, we all know that marketing materials are fluff, and should not be relied upon when buying or using a piece of equipment. It seems fairly obvious to me that by "water proof" they mean "water resistant" and they make it clear that it is not designed for dedicated underwater use such as a GoPro-like device. But you can probably still drop it in your toilet and it will work after being fished out.
They make it clear that the phone can be taken underwater up to 1.5m deep and up to 30 minutes. Why would someone read this and assume that the phone is only waterproof enough for use in the rain?
http://www.sonymobile.com/in/p... [sonymobile.com]
The Xperia Z3 is waterproof and protected against dust as long as you follow a few simple instructions: all ports and attached covers are firmly closed; you can’t take the phone deeper than 1.5 m of water and for longer than 30 minutes; and the water should be fresh water. Casual use in chlorinated pools is permitted provided the phone is rinsed in fresh water afterwards. No seawater and no salt water pools.
Re: (Score:2)
"More importantly, the M4 passes The Reg’s IP-booze test, which mandates immersion in two pints of lager for one hour, then being left to dry while said lager is drunk and then dropped onto the toilet floor after being used singlehandedly as the aforementioned alcoholic beverage is disposed of."
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2... [theregister.co.uk]
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Sure there is: http://www.whoi.edu/main/hov-a... [whoi.edu]