Google Found Guilty of "Abusing Dominant Market Position" In Russia 126
An anonymous reader writes: Russia's anti-monopoly regulator has ruled that Google has violated Russian antitrust laws by requiring that manufacturers pre-install its services on their devices. Stock in Russian search firm Yandex has soared since the ruling. Cnet reports: "The agency, Russia's Federal Antimonopoly Service, has 10 days to issue a full ruling. In the ruling, Russia can outline adjustments to Google's agreements with mobile device manufacturers, according to the translated statement. But while Google was found guilty of market abuses, a Russian antitrust regulator told The Wall Street Journal the Mountain View, California-based company wasn't found guilty of 'unfair competition practices.' 'We haven't yet received the ruling,' a Google spokeswoman said in an emailed statement. 'When we do, we will study it and determine our next steps.'"
Three guesses... (Score:5, Insightful)
...who the owner of "Yandex" is closely affiliated with, and the first two don't count.
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I think that Google just needs to withdraw their services from countries who pull this crap.
*Oh! The vodka!* What's this "crap" are you talking about? You know, the computers and secretaries write all the "complaints" and do all the paperwork. What's being discussed on the phone are dinner/concert/movie dates and somewhere to hook up.
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That would mean google would have to withdraw everywhere except US and some third world countries that don't yet have anti-trust legislation.
Which would basically destroy google, while letting numerous competitors take the void it leaves behind.
Re: Three guesses... (Score:5, Informative)
Yes they are more popular and they have special connections in the Kremlin which is where this decision comes from. What they want is for the government to force Goolge to let them install some of Google's applications that they don't have equivalents for while allowing them to replace what they can. I would suggest Google tell them to go fuck themselves and in the process Android disappears from Russia and Yandex is destroyed.
See that's the kicker in this whole thing, Yandex is entirely dependent on Google to provide the OS, update it and provide the store. They want to replace certain parts with their apps. But Google does not allow their software to be loaded unless ALL of it is loaded and frankly there isn't a thing wrong with that. Android is free to use and Yandex can take it and do whatever they want with it. But that would mean hiring developers and engineers and doing the real heavy lifting that Google does and it would mean forgoing the Google servers entirely, including Google play.
Yandex wants the best of both worlds. One where they can utilize Googles software but replace all the profitable bits with their own. Basically a world where Google subsidizes them. Good luck with that. I doubt Russia is even a top 10 market for Google and they'd rather walk away from the market than empower a competitor. Then all the Russians will have left is Apple and Blackberry and Yandex will be proper fucked. I suspect this will work out as well as it did for the Spanish news publishers when Google just pulled out of the market rather than support their competitors.
All these companies just keep trying to slay the golden goose.
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The "kicker" is that Yandex is already the market leader for searches in Russia, but they have hilariously dismal smartphone market penetration due to Google Search being the default engine bundled with Android. Rather than simply forking Android to change the defaults and providing their own equivalent applications, and then paying Russian OEMs to use their distro instead of Google's so as to shut Google out of the Russian market almost-entirely, Yandex wants to piggyback off of Google's hard work.
So yes,
Broke the law of bribery (Score:4, Informative)
1) Micky Mouse
2) your mom
3) Someone from Russia. (The country whose laws Google broke.)
You're assuming they broke the law. It's antitrust, which means there's so much wiggle room in it the judges can decide whatever they want. And it's Russia, so everything is about who bribed whom.
There's a lot of competition in the Smartphone O/S space. While every operator builds something of its own structural monopoly, you can still pick a windows phone or an apple phone or even a blackberry.
So antitrust complaints against google are pretty much bullshit.
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The hypocrisy is astounding. You think that somehow the US kangaroo courts are any more just? Microsoft was even convicted of crimes and after much political pressure and bribes escaped with slap on the wrist. Probably also bullshit verdict, since it was under antitrust laws that have so much wiggle room? You really think there is any justice in US courts? Think again.
Re:Broke the law of bribery (Score:4, Insightful)
You think that somehow the US kangaroo courts are any more just?
Exactly. The kangaroo courts in Russia are definitely less just than US kangaroo courts. Just like how we have corruption in the US, and it is that much less than the corruption in Russia.
The difference between the corruption of the USA and Russia is like the difference in the destructive power of a tomahawk missile and a nuclear bomb. Yes they are both very destructive, but one is many orders of magnitude more destructive.
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You think that somehow the US kangaroo courts are any more just?
Exactly. The kangaroo courts in Russia are definitely less just than US kangaroo courts. Just like how we have corruption in the US, and it is that much less than the corruption in Russia.
The difference between the corruption of the USA and Russia is like the difference in the destructive power of a tomahawk missile and a nuclear bomb. Yes they are both very destructive, but one is many orders of magnitude more destructive.
That's a pretty good analogy. Someone who gets screwed over by the courts in the US might think they're irredeemably unjust, in the same way that to someone killed by a tomahawk missile they're quite dead, but that a particular individual is 100% affected doesn't mean there isn't a difference in scale.
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A kangaroo court is inherently unjust. There isn't one that is any less than the other, unless you're willing to say that some types of unfairness in the court are okay but others are not. Arguably, due to the way the corruption is open to the general public and not just the wealthy (as is the case in the US), the russian courts are more fair since everyone legitimately has the option to pay their way out. This is not condoning bribery, but we shouldn't point to someone else's shit to cover up the stink of
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There's a scale of how blatant the bribery is.
At one extreme there is a truly corrupt system where you just hand the prosecution or judge a wad of cash under the table to get off.
America's courts are corruptable, but in a different manner: They are complex and multi-layered to the extent that a case can be dragged out for years easily. Look at the Mount Soledad cross case for an example - it's been lost, appealed, switched in jurisdiction, lost, appealed, switched again, lost, and delayed for more than a ye
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No, they are not complex. They are in their essence very simple. They use just a handful of very easily explainable rules: ... so...
1) Everyone is guilty of something.
2) DA decides who to prosecute or not.
3) Jury verdict is random, anything can happen, even to innocent people.
4) Even smallest non violent victimless crimes carry huge minimum penalties the judge has to impose.
5) 95% of cases are plea bargained
6) United States jails more people than the rest of the world combined.
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A kangaroo court is inherently unjust. There isn't one that is any less than the other, unless you're willing to say that some types of unfairness in the court are okay but others are not.
Saying A is worse than B, is not the same as saying B is OK.
Saying the holocaust was worse than the murder of a random person on a subway, does not mean that murdering people randomly on the subway is OK.
Arguably, due to the way the corruption is open to the general public and not just the wealthy (as is the case in the US), the russian courts are more fair since everyone legitimately has the option to pay their way out.
Yeah everyone has the option to pay their way out, including the thugs who murdered your whole family. Allowing everyone to avoid justice through bribery is simply evidence of a complete lack of a justice system. It is simply a system of extortion masquerading as a justice system.
And yes we have corruptio
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So let me stop you right there. US justice system isn't just imperfect. It is ... among the civilized nations... including Russia.... the most unjust system of them all. That is right. The most unjust. You still live under the impression of American Exceptionalism which blinds you to seeing what is plain in front of your face. I know they taught you in school that it is the best system in the world. They lied. It is not. It is, in fact, the worst.
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You still live under the impression of American Exceptionalism
You apparently can't read.
I'm not sure how being 17th counts as exceptionalism. We are terrible. This doesn't change the fact that Russia is *worse* in this regard.
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I rate myself as the 17th smartest person in this discussion and you the 136th out of 175. It is terrible I am 17th, I really should be first. But that does not change the fact that you are worse than me. ... at least as long as I am the one doing the rating :)
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I so wish that your education system would improve at least to the level of successfully teaching basic reading comprehension :)
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Another way to put it... If we find an instance of a kangaroo court that occurred in Denmark's history, can we as the US claim to have a justice system of equal fairness to Denmark? If you really believe that justice is binary (a system is either just or unjust/ there is not spectrum of Justice), then what you are saying is that Somalia is as just as Denmark (i.e. equally imperfect and unjust).
Mob (Score:2)
The hypocrisy is astounding. You think that somehow the US kangaroo courts are any more just? Microsoft was even convicted of crimes and after much political pressure and bribes escaped with slap on the wrist. Probably also bullshit verdict, since it was under antitrust laws that have so much wiggle room? You really think there is any justice in US courts? Think again.
I assume that bribery is less common in US Federal Courts than in Russian Courts, for a variety of reasons. For example, organized crime is a law firm in one soviet states, and the head of state of another soviet state personally tortures people on his exercise equipment but is protected by Putin. The US federal system leaves something to be desired--its judges are about 50/50 really bright jurists from the best schools in the country on the one hand and sometimes thick politically successful figures in l
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It is only less common because in US nothing is decided by the courts. They are there just to rubber-stamp whatever the DA decides. All the bribery is moved to the DA office and is done largely through political contributions to a super pac. You just have no idea, how the US justice system actually works.
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Oh wow, a message from the 1980ies.
Okay, "Soviet" isn't the right term. :) But nevertheless accurate today.
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Not at all. I've been to Soviet Russia two times, in the mid 1980ies, as it is. It was a completely different country.
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It is simply not accurate. The parent was right. You are being lied to by people who claim that Russia is the same country as Soviet Union was. Putin's part "United Russia" is a right wing party, did you know that? You know who is the opposition party? The communists. But for people in US, they are just all communists, because they never bother to learn.
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You're assuming they broke the law. It's antitrust, which means there's so much wiggle room in it the judges can decide whatever they want. And it's Russia, so everything is about who bribed whom.
Whereas in America they just call a bribe a "campaign donation" and it's all legal.
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You're assuming they broke the law. It's antitrust,
This is Russia. It's not antitrust, it's a shakedown. They didn't pay the right people the right amount of money. So now they go back and sponsor various sports teams and federations run by Russian moguls with political connections to the tune of a few million dollars (a standard way of handling bribes in Russia) and suddenly that nasty antitrust investigation goes away again.
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From TFA:
'When we do, we will study it and determine our next steps."
My guess would be that something like the Russian Volleyball or Backetball federations are going to see a sudden injection of, uh, sponsorship money as Google's next step.
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Google preloads their devices with some apps, no big deal.
But they also prohibit preloading of competing apps, which is worse. That's what they've been accused of.
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...who the owner of "Yandex" is closely affiliated with, and the first two don't count.
Yahoo! RU
Microsoft
Microsoft RU
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Let's see. Rootin'... Tootin'... Uh, nah; can't think of no one.
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Let's see. Rootin'... Tootin'... Uh, nah; can't think of no one.
rootin-tootin? isn't he married to queen hotsie-totsie?
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We wish it were only in Soviet Russia.
Mockery of a trial... (Score:1, Troll)
That being said, it's weird that nobody has yet targeted Apple, who is certainly an order of magnitude more restrictive than Google, and is as much, or more loaded than Google...
Re:Mockery of a trial... (Score:5, Insightful)
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I don't know what happened, but every time I read an illiterate comment, I look at the poster expecting to see that joe_dragon guy.
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That being said, it's weird that nobody has yet targeted Apple, who is certainly an order of magnitude more restrictive than Google, and is as much, or more loaded than Google...
Maybe because Apple isn't forcing a hardware vendor to put their apps on the iPhone against the vendor's wishes. Apple controls both the hardware and the software, and as such by the arguments in this decision, they can dictate what apps are preinstalled. Another possible issue is Android accounts for 65% of the Russian mobile phone market (all phones including dumb ones), while iOS is only 24%.
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Russia's policy to bash western companies
Starting from last year it is Russian policy to do exactly that, from targeted inspections to import restrictions to arbitrary policy changes to arbitrary land lease term changes.
it's a reaction to USA lead sanctions against Russia. everything from banning imports(as reaction to eu banning exports) to banning "unwanted" personnel from entering(mostly businessmen, not politicians, businessmen working with western establishments and not with the good inner circle, some companies board members for example have
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That being said, it's weird that nobody has yet targeted Apple, who is certainly an order of magnitude more restrictive than Google, and is as much, or more loaded than Google...
Why is it weird? In what market are they the dominant position?
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In loving memory of Yahkov Smirnov (Score:1, Troll)
In Soviet Russia market dominate YOU
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org].
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Apple makes it a point to stick to the high end where they can dominate profits without dominating markets (and all the regulations that comes with that).
While I'm sure this case was purely political, the verdict is arguably valid. Microsoft got in far more trouble over IE, which was nothing compared to the level of Google bundling in stock Android.
Of course, a lot has changed since 2001 and it's hard to imagine unbundling Google services from popular Android devices. Amazon is the only company I can think
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The simple solution... (Score:3)
Speaking hypothetically; how many here believe that the Russian Federal Antimonopoly Service would have taken a similar action if a Russian company with ties to the Russian oligarchs did the same thing that Google is accused of? Anyone?
This is just one more step in the Russian regimes current plan to control what Russians can do and see on the decadent Western Internet. It's no secret that Putin and his cohort is afraid to loose the ability to control the flow of information in Russia, and thus control what the average Russian believe. The Kremlin fears a possible colour revolution, and a bit of digging shows that they blame Internet sites (easily available on cheap android phones) outside of Russia for kindling that kind of unrest.
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Speaking hypothetically; how many here believe that the Russian Federal Antimonopoly Service would have taken a similar action if a Russian company with ties to the Russian oligarchs did the same thing that Google is accused of? Anyone?
Once you realize how corrupt Russia is, then the answer is obvious: Yes, they would if someone paid off the right people, which is probably what happened here - that and Putin's current NIHIR (Not-Invented-Here-In-Russia) policies...
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Once you realize how corrupt Russia is
you realize that humans are pretty much the same wherever you go
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Once you realize how corrupt Russia is
you realize that humans are pretty much the same wherever you go
Yes, but some countries make it easier than others.
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Google Found Guilty of Being an American Company (Score:5, Funny)
There, I fixed the headline to be more accurate.
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Actually you're wrong. You always had an option to use a different OS. You could even purchase a computer that didn't run Windows.
The courts decided that, since Microsoft had an overwhelming majority share of the desktop market, they should be considered a monopoly. They abused their monopoly by not only preinstalling internet explorer and making it an part of the OS but also by restricting the OEMs ability to preinstall a competing browser as a condition to receive heavily discounted licenses per machine
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pretty much still can not choose whether or not you want Microsoft products (and associated costs) when you buy a new machine.
I've literally never purchased a computer that came with a windows license. And I've purchased maybe 25 or so in my life. I probably will at some point. I am not morally opposed to it. But it is certainly possible.
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They should be glad not to be convicted of telemetry/data analytics, or as the common man calls it, espionage.
Anti-corruption for the corruption. (Score:2)
"Russia's anti-monopoly regulator..."
Errr, hold up a sec...one of the world's most corrupt countries has a what again?
(Ironically, I say this as America's anti-monopoly stance couldn't be any more of a joke)
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Errr, hold up a sec...one of the world's most corrupt countries
Are you talking about the USA? Here is a CLASSIC case of the pot calling the kettle black.
Maybe you can tell us about Comcast and Verizon...
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A make-sure-the-oligarchs-have-all-the-profitable-bits regulator. They call it an anti-monopoly regulator 'cause that fits on the stationery.
Looks like somebody forgot to budget... (Score:2, Informative)
An huge opening for Win10 phones in Russia? (Score:1)
Install Win10 mobile, on any Snapdragon Mobile (Score:2)
All MS has to do, is port win10 mobile to more common android devices.
You can already install win8 mobile to android snapdragon samsung devices.
Imagine if you could install Win 10 mobile, on ANY android phone, MS could kill all the crap android devices without making any hardware, they just have to port it with a team of 1000 engineers to the top 25 brands, and make it easy to install like windows to desktops.
So, what's the fine? (Score:1)
They have to pay for dinner at Buono
Hand it off to cronies (Score:1)
I find this claim clownish given what Putin has done, taking over all major media that criticises him, and any challengers to his political power through the election process suddenly have legal problems.
What about Apple then? (Score:2)
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running over tons of cheese with a tank to make a political statement, rather than distributing it to the needy.
Dial back the political hysteria, and consider this as application of standard import substitution policy. If Russia gave it away free to "the needy", Russian producers' sales would be reduced, sales which are needed to justify investments in local production. The EU and US use similar practices themselves, between actual destruction and paying farmers to keep lands fallow.
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what's that about cheese?
and, more importantly, was any bacon harmed during the incident??
Re:Russia is dumb (Score:4, Informative)
Russia has banned food imports from the EU. They siezed a load a few months ago and put on a big public show on national TV of destroying it as an illegal import. The official line is that they couldn't trust in the safety of the illegally imported cheese because smugglers might not refrigerate it properly or keep the correct paperwork to track origin, but no-one buys that excuse, so there are some level of quiet muttering in Russia about the incident - mostly because, thanks to the food import ban, food prices have shot up at a time when their economy is already seriously struggling.