Marco Rubio and Other Senators Move To Block Municipal Broadband (theintercept.com) 352
New submitter h33t l4x0r writes: Presidential candidate Marco Rubio recently "fired off a letter (PDF) to the Federal Communications Commission asking the agency to allow states to block municipal broadband services." The municipal services offer cheaper, faster broadband alternatives to the large telecoms. Rubio's campaign has taken large donations from AT&T, and the article notes that other providers, "fearing competition, have used their influence in state government to make an end-run around local municipalities. Through surrogates like the American Legislative Exchange Council, the industry gets states to pass laws that ban municipal broadband networks, despite the obvious benefits to both the municipalities and their residents."
For someone who represents the people (Score:5, Insightful)
For someone who represents the people, how can they possibly justify being against municipal broadband? What is it going to take to get a by the people, for the people government? Torches & pitchforks?
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You added the smiley but this is exactly their reasoning. Municipal broadband would hurt the other ISPs because the competition might force prices down and might force the big ISPs to improve their service. All this would mean lower profits which "hurts" those companies. Instead, we've got to let the big ISPs grow bigger and get fatter and fatter with profits.
Remember, all people are equal, but some people (corporations and the rich) are more equal than others (nor
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I think you are over looking the potential for municipal broadband to choke change and growth. Say what you will about Comcast and friends but we have things like 100Mbps down 75Mpbs up links at affordable prices. Compare that to what you could get in your home a decade ago. Now think about how fast your local municipality does changes anything. Consider the article about Flit Michigan's water system the other day. The issue was really not the water source but the infrastructure. How many places have
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I think you are over looking the potential for municipal broadband to choke change and growth.
And other people may think you're not appreciating the potential for corporate entities to choke change and growth.
Say what you will about Comcast and friends but we have things like 100Mbps down 75Mpbs up links at affordable prices. Compare that to what you could get in your home a decade ago.
I'd rather compare it to what I could get in my home today. Gig Fiber. Which Comcast and friends opposed.
Now think about how fast your local municipality does changes anything. Consider the article about Flit Michigan's water system the other day. The issue was really not the water source but the infrastructure.
No, they had a decent water source, but the state controller made a change, for no good reason, and refused to make the necessary fixes.
That's a lesson in not letting a corrupt autocrat appointed by another corrupt autocrat control you.
So all you're saying is that Michigan needs a better f
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We can also talk about all the tax payer money going to these ISPs but then you'll look even more like an ass-hole.
Let the towns do what they want (Score:5, Insightful)
I think you are over looking the potential for municipal broadband to choke change and growth.
It is also able to drive change and growth. The notion that all government's do is stifle progress is demonstrably nonsense.
Say what you will about Comcast and friends but we have things like 100Mbps down 75Mpbs up links at affordable prices.
In some places you do. In others not so much. And you might consider picking an example of a company that is somewhat more beloved than Comcast. They are among the least liked companies in America for well deserved reasons. Monopolies don't do shit to improve service unless there is some form of competition. I guarantee that if AT&T or Verizon isn't there to compete that Comcast wouldn't improve their service very fast.
Consider the article about Flit Michigan's water system the other day. The issue was really not the water source but the infrastructure. How many places have over crowed schools, etc?
Do you have any concept of how hard it is to get taxpayers to fund upgrades to a water system even in a city without financial problems? Taxpayers routinely vote down school levies. This isn't government failing, it is the citizens saying they don't want to pay for any of this.
I am sure public broadband systems could deliver today's technology to consumers more cheaply and better serve under served areas, but the cost would likely be that the level of service rarely improves.
As long as the municipal system doesn't prohibit via laws private enterprise from competing, what is the problem? If the municipal system doesn't improve then private enterprise can fill in the gap. But if the citizens of a town collectively want to run their own broadband that should be their right to do so. If they end up paying more in the long run then that is their problem isn't it? Towns that consider municipal broadband probably aren't being well served now by the private companies so why should they expect that to change in the future?
If you allow municipal broad band it will choke out terrestrial ISPs. The broad band market is broken because there is to little competition, plan to effectively make it so the government is the only game in town isn't a solution to that.
Your argument makes no sense. Trading a public monopoly for a private one doesn't improve anything and it means the citizens have even less say in what they want. There is no reason to prohibit municipal broadband provided private companies are still legally allowed to build their own networks too.
Private enterprise is no cure all (Score:3)
People don't want to pay because they see the expensive, shit-quality job done by the govt' agencies and generally don't want that.
You mean like being able to send a letter anywhere in the US and have it arrive within a few days for $0.49? [/sarcasm] What a stupid generalization. Governments routinely provide all kinds of services with excellent efficiency and quality. Not everything but they are hardly these palaces of incompetence you claim. While the private sector is definitely better for some things the notion that government cannot do anything well is simply ridiculous nonsense.
You ever see 10 Cal-Trans (or local equivalent) workers all standing around one guy with a shovel? The populace doesn't hade infrastructure upgrades, but they do get frustrated after seeing that and then the projects go massively over budget. "Good enough for govt' work" is a saying for a reason.
I see plenty of private company construction wo
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A couple of points. How would overcapacity ever be a problem for a nonprofit? Sure, more money spent up front, which may be considered wasteful, but it sure beats the cost of having to add capacity later.
As to "the cost would likely be that the level of service rarely improves," I don't understand. Isn't it the mantra of capitalism that the private sector can always offer goods and services more cheaply and efficiently than the government? Yet how is it that Comcast and Verizon don't even offer 1-GB Interne
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Ever been Chattanooga lately?
Guessing not.
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How would it choke off growth? I don't know of any existing or proposed municipal broadband that forbids commercial competition (but I do know of more than one commercial entity that pays lots of money to get laws forbidding municipal broadband). If they are so incredibly competitive and so much more efficient, they can surely move in and compete. Perhaps even buy out the municipal system at a fair price once they prove how much better they are.
And about that growth, it seems that with newly imposed caps an
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Because corporations are people too? ;-)
I don't know, I think it's ideological nuttery to be honest, the same sort you see exhibited in the very first post to this article (which may or may not be a spoof, but it's a common viewpoint.) "The free market can always do better" they argue, even when presented with systems that exist purely because the free market isn't even bothering to participate.
The free market *can't* participate because of the presence of very heavy regulation.
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Poor regulation. Other countries with much better internet access have heavy regulation, but as the regulation is in the interests of the consumer, it ends up with great competition, and the ability for small ISPs to compete against the big players.
Saying "regulation" like it's all the same isn't a particularly intelligent or useful comment.
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Government gave a cheaper , faster solution? How could that happen? As a rule of thumb, if government can do anything much cheaper than Corporations, that tends to prove the Corporations are gouging or just plain doing it wrong.
Or the private corporations are not doing anything at all that that market.
Actually I work for a Fortune 500 & they make such wacky decisions they make government look good. I really don't know how they get away with it, but then I don't hold any of their stock.
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Two Words:
https://secure.berniesanders.c... [berniesanders.com]
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I grow weary of that excuse. "Hate the game, not the players." If the game is straight up evil then I can sure as hell hate the participants who are enabling by playing it.
How dare they (Score:5, Insightful)
How dare they try to provide a service that people want!
Next they'll have some kind of crazy thing called a "postal service" where people can send letters and packages to other people fairly inexpensively, and the government will operate it! After that they'll force everyone to use something called "public libraries" and "fire departments". Where will it end??
The end game will be complete when they institute the final piece of Satan's plan called "public schools", where every child will be able to be get an education. O The Horror!
Soon the Evil State will force people at gunpoint to use these municipal broadband services, and if you don't, it's off to the FEMA re-education camps with you, citizen! I swear it's true, Glenn Beck told me so!
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Re:How dare they (Score:4, Insightful)
The USPS delivers my mail every single weekday (and Saturday) without fail and at a consistent time. I can be assured that shipping something via the post office means it will get to its destination in a set time (depending on what level of service I pay for). I've had nothing but good service at the post office. Contrast this to UPS which drops packages off on my doorstep and never rings the doorbell. Even big, expensive looking packages. Someone could swipe the package off my front step and I'd never know it was ever there.
As for public libraries, how long until book publishers claim that libraries result in lost sales (because I'm borrowing the latest book instead of buying a copy) and must be shut down?
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they actually do make those claims against libraries from time to time.
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and most importantly, they will continue to exist even after the private corporations have decided those services are no longer profitable, and discontinue service.
yeah, how dare utilities JustWork(tm) (Score:5, Interesting)
CThe last thing I'd want is to get Internet access through the government. If you think service via private companies is bad, just wait until you try getting service via the government!
Power: Check.
Water: Check.
Gas: Check.
I fail to see how broadband would be any different. (And how it could possibly be worse than Comcast.. Three rate hikes this year alone, plus that "data threshold" bullshit which is really another $30/mo rate hike by another name)
By far the shittiest broadband ISPs I've encounteredwere the private ones set up by a HO or apartment complex. Talk about no incentive to improve.
Look, the problem here isn't that the local governments want to set up broadband. It's that ihey are prevented by law from doing so, even when no private organizations are willing.
Re:yeah, how dare utilities JustWork(tm) (Score:4, Interesting)
Comcast has different tiers depending on the competition in the area. I live in NJ where FIOS is big around here and I pay $50 a month for just internet service which gets me 150 Mbps / 50 Mbps up and no data cap. Which is hysterical as up to about 3 years ago I was lucky to get 25 Mbps / 3 Mbps with a 250 GB data cap, until FIOS stepped up their advertising.
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I'm game.
after all, it works for the rest of the world.
even though far too many people in the US refuse to copy what works and insist we are are somehow different and special, or just deny flat out deny that it does work.
Because Freedom? (Score:4, Interesting)
I live in a town with a gym that was paid for with tax dollars and a gym that was paid for privately. They compete. There are no problems. If you don't like one, go to the other. Same goes for education.
I don't see the problem, but then again, I don't have a problem competing with the government. Only a protectionist claiming to be a capitalist would.
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The big ISPs don't like competition. Competition means they need to lower prices and improve service. Compare the offerings of any of the big ISPs in a location with Google Fiber versus an area without Google Fiber. If the big ISPs remain as monopolies in their areas then they can charge as much as they want for horrible service and they can be assured that people will pay because they'll have no choice.
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I live in a town with a gym that was paid for with tax dollars and a gym that was paid for privately. They compete.
The customers of the private gym must also pay for the tax funded gym, yet you have declared that competition is happening....
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A good gym has pretty much become a staple to being part of healthcare. I pay taxes because this gym provides services to the community as giving courts for kids to play basketball or volleyball, a track for running, and wellness programs.
Paying taxes for a gym gives some access to resources to help them maintain happy and healthy lives. There are fees with membership to the gym, but they pale in comparison to the private gym. The private gym offers 24 hour access as well as some resources and less crowd
Re:Because Freedom? (Score:5, Insightful)
and if the private gym wants customers it has to provide more than the public gym.
yet it also must charge a fee, a fee that some folks maybe couldn't pay.
and so for them they use the free public gym.
and thus does society benefit, instead of segregating itself into the haves and have nots, where the haves are healthy because they can afford to be healthy, and the have nots cannot. this way the opportunity is there, and the only limiting factor is ones actual desire to be healthy, not ones pocketbook.
the same argument applies to healthcare, quite nicely.
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Which means there are less people at their gym, and everyone gets the benefit of having a more fit populace. The amount they pay for the other gym would be a tiny percent of their private membership, so I don't see your point. I have a sneaking suspicion you don't either.
Possible, potentially, and maybe are justification (Score:5, Insightful)
"“The FCC is promoting government-owned networks at the possible expense of private sector broadband providers..."
Boy, it's just been a week of "almosts" and "maybes", hasn't it. Started with the drone registration that was justified because of potentially unsafe incidents and now this bullshit.
What's next, mobilizing our military because of a rumor?
Oh and Rubio, this makes you look like a corporate shill whore that will gain you nothing. Enjoy your reputation. You've earned it.
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So what does it make Hillary who takes donations from Donald Trump?
And from the banks and other corporations?
https://www.opensecrets.org/po... [opensecrets.org]
http://www.truth-out.org/speak... [truth-out.org]
Taking money from corps doesn't distinguish good or bad from Rubio.
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Evacuating the school population of los angeles because of an email
Ah, yes. Forgot about that. Sad there's been so many examples within mere days we can't even keep track of them all.
Municipal ISP is un American. (Score:5, Informative)
Then came the railroads. The canal companies lobbied heavily to keep railroads out of the canal towns. Even today you can see quaint little towns along the Erie canal that successfully kept the railroads out. They, and their canals, went bust and economic growth by passed them. But municipalities courted the railroads like gangbusters. All levels of the government local, state and federal shoveled money to private companies to build railroads, large land grants. So much of land was given to railroads they actually acted as a catalyst to immigration and populating the Great Plains. They gave away 40 acres of land to immigrants from Europe if they would buy train tickets from New York to Nebraska! Well, history repeated. Railway towns like Altoona, PA actively fought to keep the Interstate high ways away from them!
So in the great American tradition, the municipalities should tax their local population, collect all the money and lay it at the feet of Internet barons in New York and beg them to build a fiber optic network for their poor little towns. These companies would spend a dime per dollar to build the network for the towns and skim off the rest. That is the American tradition.
Municipality building its own network! bah! What would happen next? Municipalities to have their own fleet of trucks to remove snow? Or do their own garbage collection fleets? Or run school districts? We need to put an end to all these un American activities. The only real role for municipalities, or any government, is to tax the population and give the money to private companies, with no bid contracts, and to beg them to provide basic services, after taking their cut of 40 to 60% for profits.
As bad as mediacom, at&t, verizon, Cox et al (Score:2)
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IMHO, the ideal model of this is the government bonding the municipal network construction (fiber, data center, etc) but giving contracting out management of the L1/2 infrastructure to someone who knows how to run a network like this.
Actual services delivered over this infrastructure would be provided by other third parties who buy access to the network, such as ISPs, video providers, telecom, and then resell their services to subscribers. I'd probably mandate that a service provider on the network would b
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So you've never been to Chattanooga then.
You would do well to read http://www.governmentisgood.co... [governmentisgood.com]
It would correct a significant portion of your ignorance.
Fuck Off Rubio (Score:4, Interesting)
Who's competing? (Score:2)
The argument that municipal broadband stifles competition in the private sector would be more convincing if it came with examples where municipal broadband was competing against the sector, instead of examples where the private sector refused to engage the market at all.
I don't like govt providing nonessential services (Score:2)
In my experience local, state and federal governments have a hard time providing essential services that they *should* provide. It's rare when that is done effectively and efficiently. Why do we want to grow our governments to start providing nonessential services?
Here's the other problem: it really, truly is unfair competition when the taxpayers will be on the hook for the capital investment of a municipally operated ISP. Private companies do not have that luxury of having someone else pay for the const
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The internet used to be a non-essential service. That time has long gone. Now the network is the new interstate, and we are behind the rest of the world because we insist that the free market will do a better job of providing universal internet infrastructure. This is demonstrably not true, the free market will provide excessive capacity where there is profit to be made, but no capacity where there is no profit to be made. This uneven coverage actually hurts the country. Just as uneven electrification, interstate system, or health coverage hurt the country.
I disagree. It's not essential. There are still communities in the US without telephone service. Why didn't the government intervene there? Because telephone service isn't essential either. I think you're not understanding the definition of the word essential. It means absolutely necessary.
We should create a government run high performance back bone that runs to every city in the US and town. Corporations could still compete on top of this system paying a rent for the maintenance and upgrades to the system similar to the rents they pay for air spectrum. Corporations would then not have to double build infrastructure so the overall cost would be lower. The reason that companies don't want this is that one of the ways that they keep their monopoly is that it is expensive to build network capability, so they can exclude competition from smaller companies that cannot afford to build infrastructure.
The government does not need to provide more nonessential services. Like I said in the OP, our governments can't even provide essential services properly. We don't need them overextending their incompetence to non
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Under the definition you're using, power, water, and sewer aren't "essential" either. Plenty of people in the U.S. live without them, after all. You can always dig a well or put in a septic system, right?
Like I
End run: Cities install bundles of conduit. (Score:3)
Here's an end run for such regulations:
- The municipalities install bundles of conduit, along with pull-boxes, manholed repeater vaults, and the like. Also install, or allow the user to install, per-house or per-apartment-complex conduit to the nearest valult. (Include this in the utility hookup zoning and permitting requirements on any new developments, too.)
- Then lease a conduit right-of-way and vault rack space to all comers on equal terms: AT&T and your local mom-and-POP can both string their cables, fibres, or what-not on equal terms, and NONE of them have to get their investors to pony up, up front, to dig up the whole city - separately. (With N conduits in each vault-to-vault hop the first N comers initially have a conduit to themselves, though they may have to share it eventually.)
- String fibre bundles through the first conduit, use some of the fibres for the municipal net, and (if the federal rules don't block it), lease a limited-number-per-customer to all comers, ditto (reserving a few for backups for failed fibres and for future expansion.)
As with "dark fibre", almost all the cost is digging up the countryside to install the conduits and fibre runs. Putting in more conduit, or using fibre cables with more fibres, vastly multiplies the capacity with a small percentage increment on the cost of the installation. This "future-proofs" it. With dense wavelength division a single pair of fibres can carry a major telecom's entire local traffic. Run a dozen four-inch pipes between each vault and you can expect it to serve all the city's communication requirements for far longer than the expected life of the other aspects of the city's infrastructure.
Re:Private sector will always do it better. (Score:5, Funny)
We need to be stopping the relentless growth of big government, not find more things for them to get their paws into.
Rand Paul, is that you?
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Is this how you regard everyone you disagree with? They should be voted out of office, not drawn and quartered or shot on sight. What the fuck is wrong with you.
Re:Private sector will always do it better. (Score:5, Insightful)
If we allow the government to socialize internet access, we'll wind up with a system that is constantly in need of repair, upgrades, and endless red tape to get even the slightest thing done, along with constant pressure to charge rich people more and give access away for free to poor people in the name of 'fairness...' We need to be stopping the relentless growth of big government, not find more things for them to get their paws into.
Oh, you mean unlike Comcast or any of the other quasi-monopolies we currently enjoy?
And yet, when the people want to band together and do something, you want to remove that freedom?
Re:Private sector will always do it better. (Score:5, Insightful)
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This. I'm very much a free market supporter, but in the cable internet areana it's anything but a free market in the US right now. Competition is great. We don't have that now, though.
I support the free market but recognize the need for some regulation in places where the free market fails, like here when it comes to natural monopolies.
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The free market didnt fail 'here'. It was monopolized by $$$ so that it stayed that way.
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Why would they each have to dig the streets up? Isn't the telephone infrastructure there already? In the UK, BT owns the copper in the ground and everybody competing in the pool coughs up a fair rental for using that copper, including us customers. On copper alone and with a distance of around 3 miles from the exchange we managed an easy 6+/2+ Mbit. Recently we started seeing fiber to cabinet which lowered costs in general so now I get phone, TV & 50+/14+ Mbit for about £45 a month (including c
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In the US, the telephone networks were forced open to be like what you describe under the FCC's "common carrier" rules. A particular company owns the wire, but other companies can lease circuits on them, allowing subscribers to get services from whomever they please.
Cable Television networks are not included in that. They are still very much privately owned by the descendant companies of whoever put that copper in the ground, and fight vigorously to defend that.
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Except that the 'free market' was never allowed to exist in this sector. It could be argued that establishing a muni broadband service would be the 'free market' expressing itself - an actual competitor to the entrenched government-granted telco monopolies of the 1970s.
But those monopolies are more than willing to spend money preventing it from happening through legal measures and campaign contributions, rather than spending to eliminate the need by improving their networks, lowering costs, or both.
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Thanks be to the local governments [wired.com].
Allowing the townhalls to run Internet-service will not improve things — it will kill off, what little competition there is.
Ah, and your online behavior will be subject to the town's laws — written by the same folks, who set up speed-limits and school lunches.
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Enjoy your shitty internet access, then. Every time you spout this nonsense argument you guarantee the US's internet access will remain cripplingly bad for the vast majority of people for a little bit longer.
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The solution is competition, not municipal broadband. Sure, municipal happens to be the only competition in some cases (and that's why is seems good). But it wouldn't be necessary if there was competition to begin with.
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So the one effective means available of providing desperately needed competition (a fact you acknowledge) should be prohibited because it seems good? Wow, what a devastating critique!
Re:Private sector will always do it better. (Score:5, Insightful)
Municipal broadband *IS* competition. The reason some people unrelated to cable companies hate this is because they see any and all government as evil because of a perverted ideology. So they ask the bigger state governments to trod on the smaller municipal governments all in the name of restricting government.
If municipal government is too big, and the voters in a municipality are unable to control that big government at the ballot box, then they're effectively claiming that the democratic experiment has failed utterly. But that's not true, democracy is still alive, the voters are able to direct their local governments, and it's just anti government hysteria that promotes this idea. They're so indoctrinated with this perverted logic that they would rather the worst internet in the world than to admit that they could be wrong, and they even violate their own ideals by appealing to big government in their battle against small government.
Oh my god, tax payer funds might be used, the horror, the horror! We must protect the voters from themselves by nullifying their votes!
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And don't you have laws guaranteeing net neutrality?
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You act as if the cable and broadband providers are chomping at the bit to do their own private buildout with no assurances of a captive market. They are not and they never have been.
In fact, even where it is permitted, Comcast and TWC made "gentleman's agreements" not to compete.
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Re:Private sector will always do it better. (Score:5, Insightful)
The real joke* in this is that many of these municipalities aren't being served at all by the big monopolies. They asked for service repeatedly only to be denied. But if they start a municipal broadband effort, they are suddenly criticized for "squashing competition." In other words, the big ISPs won't serve them but they don't want anyone else to serve them either so they won't have competition just in case they decide to serve them in the future.
* Unfortunately, the joke is on the public who just wants Internet access and is being told it's illegal for them to get it unless the big ISP monopolies deign to grant them access.
Re:Private sector will always do it better. (Score:4, Interesting)
What else would you expect from the Corporate Party?
While it's very true that the Republican party in its current incarnation is absolutely a corporate party it implies that other parties are not. The last 8 years could be dubbed the Goldman Sachs presidency as described here: http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITI... [cnn.com] or http://www.nationalreview.com/... [nationalreview.com]
Not convinced yet? How about Obama pushing TPP as hard as he can? That's as corporate as it gets. Hillary is bought and paid for which is why the media is working its level best to feed us only smiling pics of her. Only Bernie, an independent who seeks the Democratic party nomination, could be described as anti corporate.
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Municipalities acting in their own interests, the part of government that is closest to the people, is now big government? Big government is the fed telling local communities what they can and cannot do.
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If we allow the government to socialize internet access, we'll wind up with a system that is constantly in need of repair, upgrades, and endless red tape to get even the slightest thing done, along with constant pressure to charge rich people more and give access away for free to poor people in the name of 'fairness...' We need to be stopping the relentless growth of big government, not find more things for them to get their paws into.
New generation of Slashdot poster doesn't know what the internet actually is or what it represents. Never thought I'd see it here.
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No shit, sick pro-corporate brainwashed astro-turf drivel. Makes me sad, these are the kind of people selling out this country to the lowest bidder.
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In August, I drove from Chicago to New Haven, CT. The roads are beautiful. I'd like to see how Bain Capital would build an interstate highway system. Oh, and then there's this little government project: http://www.zastavki.com/pictur... [zastavki.com]
Call me when a private corporation can get a human into orbit without killing him.
You are an idiot.
Re: Municipal WiFi was such a success (Score:5, Insightful)
That is your fundamental assumption and worldview, but not actual fact. The government does many things better than the free markets. Pretty much in every area where the objective isnt to abuse and wring money out of people.
There is a reason why Telcos have a 30% net profit... it is because the free market doesnt work when there are extreme startup costs.
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And most of these large telcos were started with government support... The infrastructure they now make huge profits off was paid for by the tax payers originally.
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Whether that's true or not, it is not relevant. A child may be born with government support (such as when his mother is poor) — this does not mean, he owes anything to the taxpayers or is a slave of the state.
Citations? Please, give one or two examples of such companies listing the total cost of their infrastructure and the portion of it, that
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Considering, it is the local governments, who are impeding Internet-service provision competition to begin with, your stance is not just foolish, it even seems malign.
Wow, it's not the ISPs trying to buy out the local governments and having them put in higher costs, it's just the local governments, eh?
Fat fucking chance anyone actually believes you.
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Re:Municipal WiFi was such a success (Score:4, Insightful)
Oh my god, what are you, some kind of corporate astro-turfer?
Megacorps are the problem, government is the last defense of the people against the megacorps turning everything into virtual slaves.
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Once the government starts running its own ISP, the competition will vanish completely.
And in MANY places, once the government starts running its own ISP, people will have access to broadband for the first time because the 'free market' didn't give a shit.
And that is exactly what local government is for.
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So, you'd rather have the real monopoly of the townhall running Internet-services, than the quasi monopolies?
Let me introduce you to Chattanooga Gig [chattanoogagig.com].
You might want to check them out before you say something that might embarrass yourself.
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What crap are you babbling? Megacorps are destroying this company, yet you blame government? Drink some more koolaid you mindless moron.
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That should say "What crap are you babbling? Megacorps are destroying this COUNTRY, yet you blame government? Drink some more koolaid you mindless moron."
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And then, once you have accomplished your goal, what are you gonna do?
It is pretty much game over and reset.
Go watch the next Star Wars for Christmas.
Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Private sector will always do it better. (Score:5, Informative)
Socialize? I guess we should get rid of roads, police, military then... because by your definition, anything that the public requests of their government, and then pays for... is "socialist".
We need to be stopping the relentless growth of big corporations and monopolies, not giving them more power & money to control politics.
That's the whole point. Publicly funded "roads, police, military" are socialist and, even so, are perceived by many upstanding Americans to be good things.
In other words, using "socialism" and "socialist" as labels to demonize something or someone is mere rhetoric. A socialist approach to a problem should be evaluated on its merits against and in combination with other approaches.
The use of the word "socialism" as a label often stops thoughtful deliberation, and those who use such labels usually have something to lose if their listeners really think about the issues at hand. Better to stop further thinking by riling their emotions.
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And it's a rhetoric that is less and less effective as time goes on.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/125... [gallup.com]
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Very true, so glad there are other who think the same. Getting disheartened seeing the brainwashed spouting their free market bullshit.
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Political idealism aside, I actually can't think of any "obvious benefits". I mean, there aren't even any obvious benefits to government healthcare: it takes a good bit of analysis to figure out if state healthcare is more or less expensive, and then you have to figure out if it's *affordable* or if it inflicts crippling poverty on more individuals than it protects; that's not even considering the various *forms* of state healthcare (single-payer; state hospitals; hybrid systems like Canada; laws mandati
Re:Private sector will always do it better. (Score:5, Interesting)
Bullshit. There are a whole raft of studies which show that state-provided healthcare offers similar outcomes at a greatly reduced price. Strangely enough, when you remove money-sucking middlemen from the equation, healthcare becomes a lot cheaper. The single buyer gets a much better deal on medication and supplies, etc. which lowers the price for everyone. Hospitals aren't looking at their bottom lines to gouge patients, etc. If you really think there is any doubt in this, you really need to read more. The US spends a greater proportion of its GDP on its non-public healthcare than other countries with public healthcare. You'd save money, simplify everything, and whenever you went to the hospital, there would be no paperwork or money changing hands. Witchcraft!
Re:Private sector will always do it better. (Score:5, Insightful)
If we allow the government to socialize internet access, we'll wind up with a system that is constantly in need of repair, upgrades, and endless red tape to get even the slightest thing done, along with constant pressure to charge rich people more and give access away for free to poor people in the name of 'fairness...' We need to be stopping the relentless growth of big government, not find more things for them to get their paws into.
As a ranking independent libertarian I'd have to say this is some false indignation. The big monopoly providers we have now exist because of big government. And little government. Municipalities all over the country are already deep into this with their power to regulate and license the rights of way across their cities and towns. Often municipalities will create exclusive contracts with just one provider in order "to get the best deal". But the false libertarians are silent on the practice? How about the FCC ban exclusive agreements between municipalities and telecom providers to start?
It seems to me that if a town or city wants to provide assistance to set up a municipal telecom provider as a non-profit corporation, then they should be free to do so. They don't have to become telecoms themselves, just create a new entity like many municipal light and electric companies. State governments shouldn't stand in the way of small business even if, especially if, that business is set up as a non-profit for the public benefit.
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As a ranking independent libertarian...
This is entirely new to me. Libertarians have ranks? "Independent" ones at that! What is your rank? How did you acquire it? What are the other ranks? Inquiring minds want to know.
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If we allow the government to socialize internet access, we'll wind up with a system that is constantly in need of repair, upgrades, and endless red tape to get even the slightest thing done, along with constant pressure to charge rich people more and give access away for free to poor people in the name of 'fairness...' We need to be stopping the relentless growth of big government, not find more things for them to get their paws into.
So basically we'd end up with the same system corporations offer us, but (according to TFA) cheaper and faster. Sounds good.
Re:Private sector will always do it better. (Score:5, Insightful)
If we allow the government to socialize internet access, we'll wind up with a system that is constantly in need of repair, upgrades, and endless red tape to get even the slightest thing done,
[citation needed]
I come from a part of the country where the electrical utilities are publicly owned and operated, meaning that the entity is beholden to the voters/ratepayers. I now live in a part of the country where the electrical utilities are operated by for-profit companies, which are beholden first and foremost to their shareholders. The difference is like night and day. While I won't argue that there is not inefficiency in "the government", making a blanket statement that it is always so is patently absurd.
Re:Private sector will always do it better. (Score:4, Interesting)
Scratch one more candidate off my 2016 list.
This Republican sees nothing wrong with local government getting into the broadband business so long as it does not set up a monopoly. After all there is pressure from voters to "have the city do it" only when there is no, or one ready bad, private alternative. Broadband is a utility, and city involvement in it is developing along the same lines as city involvement in water and power systems.
Local voters are part of the market too.
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Banning municipal governments from providing broadband services that its citizens vote for is "small government"? In what alternate universe?
Re:Private sector will always do it better. (Score:4, Interesting)
I lived in a town with municipal internet. It was wonderful. My up/down speeds were synchronous, I didn't have to buy my own modem (or lease one for 10 bucks a month), and here comes the kicker: If I had a problem and had to call them, I talked to an actual person. No machine, no waiting on hold, just a person picked up on the other end of the line. A person who was even competent enough to perform basic tasks, like renewing my IP address.
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Nobody would be stopping you from hiring a privately-owned commercial ISP, if you prefer.
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we'll wind up with a system that is constantly in need of repair, upgrades, and endless red tape to get even the slightest thing done
We have that, even without government involvement...
The private sector only works when there's competition, and a lack of competition is precisely why government run systems usually don't work well either.
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Well I would say it is up to you to fix your corrupt state.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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The majority are not usually corrupt, in most cases they are either uninformed, apathetic, or sufficiently informed to realise that the only realistic alternative is even worse.
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Isn't that the whole point?
No.
If you expect the Federal government to fix your State government when you arent satisfied, who do you expect to fix your Federal government when you arent satisfied?
You think that you have more influence on the Federal government than you do on your State government?
You should get off your ass, stop being an arm-chair power-giver, and fix things at the most local level possible.