Adblock Plus Comes (Somewhat) Clean About How Acceptable Ads Work (betanews.com) 218
Mark Wilson writes: The Acceptable Ads program from Adblock Plus has proven slightly controversial. The company behind the ad blocking tool, Eyeo, has already revealed a little about how it makes money from the program - despite the fact that no money changes hands in most whitelisting cases - and today it has opened up further about how is makes its money.
Whilst recognizing that people do want to block ads, Eyeo is also aware that sites do need to benefit from ad revenue - hence Acceptable Ads, non-intrusive ads that it is hoped are less irritating and therefore easier to stomach. But Eyeo itself also wants to make money. How does it decide which company to charge to Acceptable Ads whitelisting, and which to charge? If you're expecting full transparency, you might be disappointed, but we are given a glimpse into how the financial side of things works.
Whilst recognizing that people do want to block ads, Eyeo is also aware that sites do need to benefit from ad revenue - hence Acceptable Ads, non-intrusive ads that it is hoped are less irritating and therefore easier to stomach. But Eyeo itself also wants to make money. How does it decide which company to charge to Acceptable Ads whitelisting, and which to charge? If you're expecting full transparency, you might be disappointed, but we are given a glimpse into how the financial side of things works.
Um... is this story itself an advert (Score:5, Interesting)
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I know it's popular to hate on advertisers but I'm kinda with them on this. You know. Nice web site ya got heres. Be a shame if anything happened to it...
That's why a lot of people, myself included, don't use ABP. Their business model will collapse when they lose market share, no one will pay them to whitelist an ad for 25% of people using ad blockers.
Re:Why are people still installing ABP (Score:5, Informative)
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But the white listing has done nothing. I still have seen no ads with ABP even with the white listing. Maybe I'm just careful about where I visit, but I wouldn't drop it until I start finding it to be ineffective.
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I would. Just because something works doesn't mean we shouldn't investigate alternatives. I found ublock to be quite a bit less resource intensive. Not relevant on a computer but critical on cheap tablets and outdated hardware.
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What happened to "If its not broke, don't fix it" mentality?
While I agree with knowing alternatives, I'm sure ad blocking software would be LOW priority on my list to just know about.
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> What happened to "If its not broke, don't fix it" mentality?
Not everyone has that mentality. I usually find that's held by systems administrators. The rest of 'em are saying, "If it ain't broke, tweak it."
It's what we do. I've been breaking stuff in new and interesting ways for a long time.
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What happened to "If its not broke, don't fix it" mentality?
While I agree with knowing alternatives, I'm sure ad blocking software would be LOW priority on my list to just know about.
The mentality died when people realised the car was faster than the horse.
It was a stupid mentality anyway accepted by people who don't think for themselves. Do your self a favour and dump that mentality in favour of continuous improvement. You'll find a lot of things weren't broken but were holding you back.
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Actually, 90% or more of new things are gone within a year. Trying all of them is a terrible waste of time!
I didn't say jump. I said "continuous improvement". The underlying concept doesn't include jumping on every new thing that comes up, but rather starts with a question of "what can I improve". In my case it was adblock plus hogging resources combined with a bit of controversy about it accepting donations from advert sites.
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I rarely get ads on my phone becuase I don't use apps that are serving up ads. I do get ads inserted by youtube on my television though, can't use adblock or ublock for that. I did put a "lite" ad filter on my router but it's not blocking youtube ads so it's no help unless I can figure out the relevant addresses.
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Same here. I am using uBlock origin as a NoScript substitute on my chrome-based browser, and decided to add ABP's acceptable ad list to it. I can never tell if it actually does anything because I still pretty much never see any adverts. Odd.
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uBlock is excellent. As is uMatrix. With uMatrix, you can do a whole lot of fun stuff. It's a veritable old-school software firewall for your browser. There's even a version for Firefox now. It's like NoScript on steroids. Once you figure it out, you're all set. There's a slight learning curve but it's not bad. It's just a whitelist approach. If you want, you can lock everything down and have nothing but text, nothing from third parties, and not even images or scripts on the page. It works at wildcard, doma
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I like uBlock, but it doesn't play well with Ghostery. I haven't decided which is better, and so I run both and let them battle it out.
The "White List" thing sounds like a cool idea in theory, but in practice, I find a "black list" thing is more desirable, particularly when you block javascript.
Most sites require javascript. But some sites do obnoxious stuff like preventing printing or stop you from trying to copy text. That's where I want to block Javascript.
Javascript blocking should at this point be
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Does ClarityRay block APK spam? If not, can you please add that feature?
I want to de-escalate the advertising war. (Score:3, Interesting)
We're now getting into a war similar to the spam war. The advertisers are going to shout louder and louder. The technical experts are going to block harder and harder. We're already at the stage of having adblock-block-blockers. The advertisers will soon try to get laws to make these illegal, if they haven't already. This will get nasty for the normal users and cause a collapse similar to the collapse of News Net. We will be able to use the internet but new users will be stuck on particular closed sit
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meh. no. really there needs to be a technical solution.
and that is no more crosssite simple to add spam ad networks. back to selling space on site by site basis.
Re:I want to de-escalate the advertising war. (Score:4, Insightful)
What it needs is for the Advertising Standards Authority, and other regulatory bodies, to be more forceful in policing internet advertising. At one time their remit only included TV, Radio, Print and poster advertising, but it now also includes internet advertising.
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We already have a full scale war. And because advertisers have destroyed each medium where they get a hold on - the main reason more and more people don't watch TV anymore - the users need to make a stand. NO ADS! NONE. The only acceptable ad is a blocked ad.
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The only acceptable ad is a blocked ad.
Ever wondered how many sites would disappear without advertising revenue to fund them (hosting and bandwidth has to be paid for somehow)? Or are you prepared to pay a subscription or fee for every website that you use?
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Poor horse carriage drivers. We need to stop those auto-mobiles, they are putting them out of business!
Other business models exist, and the very reason we don't see them is because the advertisement model has crowded them all out.
It's the same reason normal people couldn't get a reasonable credit or financing for half a decade - the banks were busy playing casino. That market crashed. It's time the advertisement market bubble bursts.
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I pay a subscription fee to my ISP to access websites.
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SoylentNews [soylentnews.org] subscriber here. I also pay to host my own stuff on Linode [linode.com] and use Namecheap [namecheap.com] as my registrar. In addition, internet routable IPv6 at home.
Frankly, websites that exist solely because of advertising can die in a fire. Nothing of value will be lost.
All that needs to happen is some serious momentum towards IPv6 adoption and federated protocols such as XMPP. DNS might remain a bugbear, but it would be neat if an ISP wanted to offer either 6RD or native IPv6 and also allow me to set up say vel-ex-
In principle vs in practice (Score:2)
Frankly, websites that exist solely because of advertising can die in a fire. Nothing of value will be lost.
You mean like Google? You think Google provides nothing of value to anyone? I think many would disagree with you. Their offerings might not be valuable to you specifically but clearly many others are ok with them as a company that exists solely because of advertising.
In principle some advertising is fine. The problem is that advertising companies can't seem to help themselves in abusing that relationship. Unfortunately the advertising companies have done so much damage that no one with a brain trusts t
Bad business models aren't my problem (Score:3)
Ever wondered how many sites would disappear without advertising revenue to fund them (hosting and bandwidth has to be paid for somehow)?
Not really, no. Their bad business model is not my problem.
Or are you prepared to pay a subscription or fee for every website that you use?
I'm prepared to pay a subscription to every website that provides me adequate value to justify a subscription. I already do this for several. Most don't provide much value and I wouldn't mourn their loss. Very few provide enough value that I would willingly sacrifice my privacy and web browsing habits to an advertising company.
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Yes. But why do you try to make that sound as a bad thing ?
Horse-whip and -carriage makers have all but disappeared, no matter how hard they fought to keep their jobs (even going so far as try to forbid the automobile). As a result the world simply exploded and human kind ceased to exist.
Change is inevitable. Fighting it is human. The end result stays the same. Adapt or perish.
You make it to appear as a two-possibility thing, with the choice laying with the visitors.
It isn't and it doesn't.
OK, so what is a third possibility?
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Sounds like a great idea!
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Sigh. Hosting is cheap as dirt. If you have that many users where you need a lot of bandwidth then you can monetize using a subscription model. Ads aren't the answer.
But the AC (who may or may not be you) made it sound like subscriptions were also a bad thing
Besides websites were around before the MBAs and marketers got to the net. Once we let them in, it's been downhill since.
The amount of bandwidth a site has to give out given its content/userbase is also a lot higher (and therefor cost is higher) than "before the MBAs and marketers got onto the net"
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the biggest problems i have are
1 pages that are 95% ads and sidebars and 5% content
2 multiple videos on a page (hint if i go to a page to see a video I DO NOT WANT SOME OTHER RANDOM VIDEO PLAYING ON THAT PAGE ALSO)
3 ads that look like system dialogs
4 ads that have exe payloads (drive by malware)
5 ad networks that will not filter ads for content (hints here i have exactly ZERO desire to see half naked people , i do not have either a house or car and im offended by most pc utility ads)
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It can't be done by people like the IAB or government advertising agencies who are in the pockets of the worst elements of the advertising industry.
It has to be done by them, because they are really the only people who can enforce it. They must police their own industry, or the private sector is going to block them. Their words and actions are the only ones that really matter in this "debate", and until they start saying and doing the right things they will continue to be blocked.
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I'm frankly surprised that Slashdot hasn't done something to prevent all of the free advertising APK gets here.
I haven't seen an APK post in ages. I know, one more mention and he'll appear, but even so. Perhaps they HAVE. Or did you actually mean ABP? If so, hilarity.
Whoops, just saw one. I guess he's not putting his name on them any more. Surprised he didn't do that sooner since his name is so bad.
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Not interested. (Score:4, Interesting)
Let's chat about this after ad revenue has dropped far enough for the advertising networks to fully understand how much our satisfaction is a factor in their success.
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Erm... Wasn't expecting to get modded down, curious as to why?
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A mod of -1 Overrated can generally be translated into "I disagree with what you're saying and wish to silence you like the little dictator I wish I could be in real life." So, either someone who works in the online advertising industry or who earns money thanks to online advertising, most likely.
Or someone is jealous of your butt-licking savvy. It's tough to call.
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So, either someone who works in the online advertising industry or who earns money thanks to online advertising, most likely.
If it's the latter then I'd really love to have a chat with that individual. Not hearing what I have to say is dangerous to his livelihood.
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If it's the latter then I'd really love to have a chat with that individual. Not hearing what I have to say is dangerous to his livelihood.
Good luck on that. People who have a stick up their ass and mod stuff down because it hurts their feelings, or because of xyz ideological reasons generally refuse to comment on stuff.
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I think Noah Haders must not be the only one who has an issue with you. The response to him got modded off-topic so I think you pissed some people off somewhere along the line.
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Just an FYI. If you post in the thread, after making a bad mod, it removes that mod. It also removes all the other mods you've made in that thread but it's possible to at least correct a mistaken mod. It's also important to note that it *only* sacrifices the mods you made in that thread. So, if you ever make an error, you can always opt to submit a reply anywhere in the thread and it will undo the moderation.
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I like your style. Me? I don't get 'em often but I kind of like it when I get down-mods. Sometimes it was, indeed, me being a dick intentionally. Other times, it's usually something that they're just too pissed off to accept. The ego is a frail thing. If I get a down-mod on an otherwise normal comment, I'm not displeased - it means I left an impression. That means that I've impressed them and that's a good thing - even if they believe it's an impression that they'd rather not have.
If I'm just repeating what
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It's already happened. E.g. Google(AdX/Doubleclick) and company are trying to police hard. The problem is a typical "tragedy of the commons case". Publishers like Forbes and Conde Nast (Wired) get more money and lose very little by trying to force aggressive tracking and advertising on their users. N.B. there is plenty more technology coming online where this will get worse, e.g. advertising will be mixed in directly with content and appear to be served from the same domains.
Only if there's a clear bene
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I'm sick and tired of your bs and i'm calling you out right here right now. Here is your comment #32700246 [slashdot.org] that you like to quote in your tagline. different than how you quote it. I'm calling you out!
Are you the guy that had the butt he refused to lick?
Awesome, just awesome (Score:3)
There are a few new snippets of information, sure, but there's hardly full transparency; ... We are instead treated to a short blog post littered with links to other pages on the Adblock Plus site, forums pages, and so on.
TFA (as per quote above) is a vague blog post that attempts to describe another vague blog post. Most of TFA is spent admitting that there is very little content to talk about.
I run a website I pay for (Score:1)
I do not charge for the site, I do not advertise to make money for my site, I have lots of folks visit and post on my site.
It's my hobby. I'm ok with paying a few hundred dollars a year for it.
Years back there was a proposal to make a new internet that was "better" and I was enthusiastic about it because I hoped that all of the people looking to monetize the internet would go to the new internet, and be banned from coming back to the old internet.
Sorry. I'm not on the web to make your site money. Share the
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i weep for what was. (Score:1)
I weep for the internet as it was before the first advertising appeared. (I was on it then, for more than a decade before Canter and Siegel [wikipedia.org]), and the Eternal September.
"But content! You didn't have 20 pages of You'll Never Believe What Happened Next! Quality clickbait! You didn't have popunders and web bugs and profiling of your every move! How did you manage? That internet was useless compared to what we have today! You'll never get that kind of high quality content without ads!"
The internet: 1969-1
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The "Internet" was not created in 1969. By most counts you could probably trace it to 1983, when TCP/IP was officially made the protocol for all routing on ARPANET.
And seriously, calling the Internet dead in 1993? If that's true, why are you still posting on /. instead of living offline in your cave?
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Obviously. I know the history as well as anyone. But ARPANET != Internet. The whole point of the Internet is that every node is globally addressable from any other node. That wasn't true until TCP/IP was made the (sole) standard.
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Your post makes zero sense... neither of those have anything to do with the Internet, they are just applications/features that may use it.
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What, you didn't enjoy having to script your SLIP connection and hoping that the terminal server login hadn't changed? For the longest time, the only mail access I had was through my local BBS that supported SMTP, but Fido was still the go-to solution if you wanted to talk to people outside of your area. Of course, back then we dreamed of having our own T1 too. And if you wanted porn, yo
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Ok, I'm officially getting old.
FIDOnet and BBS times were actually pretty cool, and for every disadvantage there was also some advantage. Getting mail at specific times of day, for example, was much more relaxing than the constantly-connected shit where every three minutes you get distracted from whatever you're doing.
Transparency? Who cares? (Score:1)
If they won't open up, it makes no sense to use their product. I hope such a concept is not too difficult to comprehend.
If you *read* the policy it's clear how they do it (Score:5, Insightful)
Any entity that implements an acceptable advertising policy as is specified on the Adblock Plus web site can request to get added to the Adblock Plus white list. The caveat is that if you are a large commercial entity not only do you have to follow the acceptable adds policy, but you also have to pay for the privilege. Paying alone is not sufficient to get white listed if your a large company. Smaller companies and projects don't have to pay to get white listed- they merely need to comply with the acceptable adds policy and request to get white listed.
This is actually the free market at work here and a totally reason solution. There are some companies that may choose not to pay up and some may even block Adblock Plus users in turn. That is the choice of these web sites and it's my choice whether or not I want to utilize these sites on those terms. Adblock Plus gives me the choice to decline to utilize web sites with poor privacy, security, and add policies. I'll continue to decline to utilize sites that implement a policy of blocking Adblock Plus users rather than implement a reasonable adds policy.
I am also an advertiser on the Linux Mint web site. I own a small company that pays Linux Mint directly to have an advertisement on the site. I also use Adblock Plus. I wish Clem (lead developer) would implement the acceptable adds policy as 60% of the visitors don't see our advertisement. I *still* support Adblock's policy and have encouraged Clem numerous times to stop with the flashy advertising so that we can request to have the site white listed. Unfortunately due to one advertiser we lose 60% of the eyeballs visiting the site. I have recently cancelled our advertising for other reasons, but pointed out this issue, alongside a note saying we'd probably return and that the cancellation (many years we've advertised with them) had nothing to do with this. None-the-less I encouraged him to implement the policy.
Editing (Score:3)
How does it decide which company to charge to Acceptable Ads whitelisting, and which to charge?
If the owners don't fix errors in the summaries, how can we expect the editors to?
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How would they decide which errors to fix, and which mistakes to correct?
How 'acceptable ads' work (Score:2)
Adblock Plus; "Nice ad revenue model you got here. Be a shame if it got broke."
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An application named "AdBlock" should... (Score:1)
...do just that, block ads, and be even better at doing so if it is named "AdBlock Plus". There is nothing wrong with offering the user the opportunity to view "acceptable" ads if they wish, but it should be the users choice to choose what is acceptable, not the applications.
Disable Advertising.... (Score:5, Insightful)
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I agree - on the desktop site. Have you seen the mobile site though? Mobile app ads that fill the screen - with four icons. Makes iPhone browsing painful.
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Which is why everything that throws and obnoxious, interruptive or distracting ad at me gets immediately deleted from my phone. Doesn't matter how good it is or how much I need it. I will find something else that doesn't.
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>"This is what AdBlock is for, to get rid of these crappy fear-ware ads. I honestly don't mind seeing ads that don't get in my face."
And that is fine for you, but for me, "in my face" means something very different. I actually agree 100% with Adblock's definition of acceptable ads... and the ones Slashdot run don't adhere to it. The biggest for me are:
No animation or motion, ever
No mouse-overs
No video or audio unless specifically clicked on
No pop-ups/unders,or timebombs
And I would guess that about 98%
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I'd rather the subscriptions were fixed and I could send money directly. The perk of being able to see stories early is nice too.
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What I don't understand is that this checkbox is not always visible for me.
When it appears it's always checked, but a lot of times (like today) I don't even see the option, and I see the ads.
Is it a bug?
Since I often browse Slashdot at work (shh!! don't tell the boss!) I don't want those shiny ads on my screen. The boring green & white screen looks like our internal document format from afar...
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I leave the checkbox unchecked too, because
1) It unchecks itself after a few days anyway
2) Slashdot ads have gotten more and more intrusive
3) I never see them any more because of AdBlock Plus!
Right now it's telling me that it blocked 8 ads on this page alone. That's not what I call "acceptable" advertising.
Ouroboros (Score:3)
This revenue allows us to hire employees to do the hard work providing that service demands. Software engineers have to maintain the whitelist, monitor it and provide customer service to each whitelisted site, whether payment is involved or not.
So they need to charge to pay for the manpower and infrastructure needed to be able to charge. A bit of a circular argument. The Easylist block list [adblockplus.org] is over six times longer than the acceptable ads whitelist [adblockplus.org], yet is maintained by volunteers. I'm sure the community could maintain a whitelist if salespeople were no longer required.
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Perhaps - but where to find a volunteer to fill an "acceptable ad list"? I would report an ad slipping through the block for free, but I certainly would not work on the second (unless they paid me so much I'd forget my concience).
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Yes, you'd likely only give your time to maintain an acceptable ads whitelist if you believe that visibility of less aggressive advertising makes the world a better place. This is a common view on Slashdot, but probably not as common as the view that all advertising shoved in other media is intrinsically bad. AdBlock Plus' rationale for introducing the acceptable ads system was that the majority of respondents to their survey wanted it.
My main point was that most of the work and expense is in the selling
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
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Then you... turn off acceptable ads. Done.
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A lot of people would prefer an ad filter. I only block abusive ads: malware, popups, flashy crap, plugin-ads(flash), script ads because they are just too abusive.*
The only ones that prefer adblockers are old, dated, paranoid people that think their little precious snowflake life is of interest to someone that already isn't reading about you because it is entirely automated most of the time.
And the times where it isn't, they already don't care about you anyway.
Even when websites are giving out a premium o
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The World Wide Web existed long before there was any ad and paywalls.
It was much smaller, but still was very fun to use because it was full of fun pages maintained by hobbyists, for free.
So yes we were a bunch of freeloaders, using pages set up by freegivers (is that a word?)
Now 99% of the web is boring blogs, advertising, and other boring content (like movie tie-ins) that everyone tries to monetize.
I hate that word: monetize
It sums up everything that's wrong with the Internet today.
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That is where uBlock Origin [github.com] comes in. ;) I wonder how long that will last until we move to the next ad blocker!
Shitmoderation (Score:4, Insightful)
How in shit did you get modded up for your bitchwhining? You can turn off acceptable ads with one checkbox which is respected by the addon. It's not broken, you just don't know how to use it.
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You could argue this should be opt-in instead of opt-out, but this is a browser plugin we're talking about, not deeply troubling shenanigans being played with core features of your OS (like Microsoft's recent stunts.) If they ever remove the option to opt-out of the whitelist, you can just use one of their many competitors but in the meantime
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By your definition, ad blockers don't exist, because nothing is perfect.
The question here is.. (Score:3)
Can you pay a large sum to allow ads with viruses to get whitelisted?
Acceptable Ads? No such thing (Score:2)
The very term "acceptable ad" sounds a bit underhanded to me; or perhaps it is just that we have already lost all trust in the advertising industry and through them, in the companies that advertising in that way. They should rethink they whole ambition and the strategy that follows from it: the term should be "Wanted Ads": advertising that people actually want - like when you go online and search for "where can I buy X within 10 miles of Y?" That's when you want to find adverts, but only if they are genuine
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Actually, even then I don't want to see ads. I'm not interested in seing the trailer or poster or reading how great X is - I've already decided to buy it. Give me a list of shops with distance and price.
Ego.setBoosted(true); (Score:2)
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no "acceptable" ads (Score:2)
There is no such thing as acceptable ads. The advertisement industry has ruined the whole thing, and I feel no pity whatsoever for them.
There used to be a time when a little bit of advertisement was acceptable. But once you've pissed all over your host, you can't come to the next party, even if you promise you won't do it again. Not anymore. Not after you've promised it twenty times, and twenty times pissed all over the host, his guests, the food and the neighbours dog.
There's a point where you are just not
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Well... I mean... There are parties like that... Maybe it'd be okay...
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Yes, they are called the marketing department. Where pissing people off is considered "engagement".
How I determine acceptable ads (Score:2)
Is this ad acceptable?
*grumpy cat macro*: NO
Determination made. That was easy.
ABP Gone (Score:2)
I've been using ABP for years now on my machines and those I admin for friends/family/clients. It was, as we all know, a good solution for a number for reasons: Using less bandwidth, limiting infection vectors, and of course removing annoying ads.
However I've recently switched to UBlock because it simply runs better...and it does not have any sort of "acceptable whitelisting". Now I actually still pretty much trust ABP as I'd used it a fair amount since they have allowed what they deemed as acceptable ad
Is it still considered an ad blocker... (Score:2)
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They already do, and this is the unintended consequences of blocking ads, that those who block ads become second-tier citizens and have to resort to piracy to get the content that was previously ad-supported.
I think you're confusing who's the second-class citizen here. If I wanted to, I could (*shudder*) disable adblock, but I wouldn't want to risk that on a hostile site. There's also the option to use and adblock-blocker-blocker, to automatically nuke the script that detects adblock. Or I could set my useragent to Googlebot, let them go ahead and block Google if they don't like it. And anything they could do like sponsored shilling, would affect non-adblock users as well.
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Lucky Patcher uses a combination: hosts file and it can disable the advertising services in Google Play Services. You can do that also with tools like https://play.google.com/store/... [google.com] , I used that to disable the analytics spying service too.
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I assume you are paying for Slashdot and not using this service for free?
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Hey, look, the fucking moron that claimed he was done psting here.
Since we can't trust you at your word, your HOSTs engine is very obviously not trustworthy either, you lying sack of shit.
Not like it matters beause every program coming out now days is hardcoded to bypass your HOSTs bullshit.
Meanwhile, they can't bypass my router block.
Dedicated hardware = 1. HOSTs = -1,000,000
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Don't ask APK to live up to his word or be honest. Everyone knows that the first rule when dealing with a spammer is that spammers lie. APK is no exception. If he wanted to be honest then he would have made an account and used that to post instead of making a bunch of AC posts that try to pass themselves off as someone other than him.