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Microsoft Wants To Do Away With Windows 10 Local Accounts (bleepingcomputer.com) 277

Posted by BeauHD from the juicy-data dept.
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Bleeping Computer: As time goes on, it is becoming increasingly clear that Microsoft is trying to make local accounts a thing of the past and push all new Windows 10 users to a Microsoft account. Since Windows 10 1903, Microsoft quietly changed the Windows Out-of-box Experience (OOBE) or setup experience so that many users are no longer able to create a local account during set up as they could previously. Recently, this change also expanded to international users in India and Germany.

For those affected, the only way to create a local account during setup is to disconnect the computer from the Internet. Yes, that's right, Microsoft now makes you disconnect the computer from the Internet to create a local account during setup! If you don't want to disconnect your network, then you need to first set up Windows with a Microsoft Account and then when done with setup go into the Windows 10 'Family & other users' settings and create a local account. Even that is a bit convoluted as you have to first start the process of creating a Microsoft account and finally on the second screen, be given the option that you wish to create a local account. Once a local account has been created, you can delete the original Microsoft account you created during setup.
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Microsoft Wants To Do Away With Windows 10 Local Accounts More

Microsoft Wants To Do Away With Windows 10 Local Accounts

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  • Eventually they'll replace the user (Score:5, Funny)

    by weilawei ( 897823 ) on Tuesday February 25, 2020 @07:48PM (#59766690)

    No more user, and they can charge businesses for an AI and the OS for the AI to use. Microsoft gets paid twice, business owners save the cost of employees.

    A win all around!

    • Re:Eventually they'll replace the user (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Tough Love ( 215404 ) on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @01:40AM (#59767614)

      Do I even need to point out that Linux lets you create all the user accounts you want with nobody interfering?

                      sudo adduser windowsrefugee

      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        by vbdasc ( 146051 )

        Please keep quiet! Don't let Lennard Poetering hear that, for God's sake!

      • Re:Eventually they'll replace the user (Score:4, Funny)

        by Cederic ( 9623 ) on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @07:58AM (#59768080) Journal

        Thanks, but when I tried to log into my Windows 10 PC it said "User 'windowsrefugee' not found."

        Do I even need to point out that what an operating system incapable of running the software I use can do is utterly fucking irrelevant?

        • Do I even need to point out that what an operating system incapable of running the software I use can do is utterly fucking irrelevant?

          No you don't, but thanks for letting us know anyway.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by Shaitan ( 22585 )

        I love Linux but lets not pretend that ecosystem is free from BS. Sure you are fine on your unpopular, poorly supported, and in relative terms completely unpolished linux desktop where some sort of bug being encountered at some point in the week is typical. But that system could be easily polished if it wasn't so contentious and fragmented spreading its vastly greater resources too thin instead of focusing on making the best choices amazing. All that beautiful unpolished but polishable free code is a big pa

    • If you are a diplomat or businessman, every time you log in, you give up your location, and a known predictable string that the host country can use/attack what might have been secure. Repeat for telemetry. One suspects there is no one time pad you can set up for 2 factor authentication. What a clumsy harebrained security downgrade.

    • Re:Eventually they'll replace the user (Score:5, Funny)

      by clovis ( 4684 ) on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @09:15AM (#59768178)

      I tried doing a clean install to see what the fuss was about. The biggest surprise to me happened when a small needle suddenly popped out of the keyboard and stabbed my hand. It took a blood sample and then disappeared back into the keyboard.
      I have lots of blood, so it's not that big a deal. But still, I wonder if it is somehow associated with refusing to take the Microsoft account option.

  • Just to funny add (Score:5, Informative)

    by oldgraybeard ( 2939809 ) on Tuesday February 25, 2020 @07:49PM (#59766696)
    Even another reason to discard Windows 10

    Just my 2 cents ;)

    • Re:Just to funny add (Score:5, Insightful)

      by sycodon ( 149926 ) on Tuesday February 25, 2020 @07:58PM (#59766738)

      My Win 7 is doing just fine.

    • I personally like Fedora, and also the KDE desktop environment. I don't understand all the hate that KDE gets.

      And I am ok with systemd. Even if it violates the Unix philosophy, it is still better than the disobedient pile of spyware that Microsoft offers. I wouldn't use Windows 10 if Microsoft paid me to do so.

      • And I am ok with systemd. Even if it violates the Unix philosophy,

        It doesn't, really. It's a little more integrated and opaque than other init systems, sure, but those other init systems had also become clumsy Rube Goldberg parodies of the Unix philosophy, tossing performance under the bus and leading to a system of startup scripts that amount to a carefully maintained mountain of hacks. Users and even most admins could remain blissfully unaware of this but it was in developers' faces all day every day. Compromising just a hair on a development philosophy from the age of

    • It should read: "Microsoft Wants To Do Away With Windows 10"

  • Not only during install. (Score:5, Informative)

    by jawtheshark ( 198669 ) * <{moc.krahsehtwaj} {ta} {todhsals}> on Tuesday February 25, 2020 @07:49PM (#59766698) Homepage Journal
    Not only during install. Do anything on Windows 10, and it will try to push you towards a Microsoft account. The tactic works: people who do not understand what they are doing, will create an account and it will sit there. I just removed a Microsoft account from my brothers Windows 10. He didn't actually use the features and he complained about wallpapers changing between computers without him setting them. Yeah, that's a feature of Microsoft Accounts. His OneDrive was activated, and empty, and I am positively sure I disabled that stuff when I installed is machine.

    I tried telling him: if you do not know what it is, you do not need it and if you want to know what it is, call me first.

    Luckily I only support close family with their Windows machines. I'm fully Linux, and so are my parents... Just those pesky siblings and their gaming machines ;-)

    • "their gaming machine" Hey gaming is now a career choice and a business!! Charge Them! ;) lol

      Just my 2 cents ;)
      • At least that is what my grand kids tell me ;) work work work train train train ;) lol

        Just my 2 cents ;)
      • ... and to be entirely complete. I actually do have a SteamBox. Self built: Ryzen 3 2200G / 32GB RAM / 256GB PCIe nmve / Steam Controller running on Debian GNU/LInux, with a bare bones LXDE, autostarting in Big Picture mode.

        It actually works lovely. Sure, I can't play Windows games (perhaps I could if I bothered with Proton), but I don't *need* Windows to get my computer game fix.

    • Conspiracy theory (plausible but no proof): MS probably wants this so they can be sure to have admin access to your computer, which is the only way that you can set up with the MS Acct OOB.

      However, if you force the initial account to be a local admin (turn off that wireless and pull that network cable), then set up limited-user day to day use, one of those limited user accounts can in fact be linked to the MS Account without being an admin. Key indicator: when something wants to install, UAC asks you for an

      • Re:Not only during install. (Score:5, Informative)

        by Retired ICS ( 6159680 ) on Tuesday February 25, 2020 @09:06PM (#59766966)

        All versions of Windows do "group policy". Network originated policies, however, are "stamped" by Netlogon, and non-domain registered machines cannot run Netlogon to accept policy stamping (well, they can, just not in a fashion that is convenient for Home Lusers). Local Policy is supported by all versions of Windows (including the Home Luser version) and is based on simple registry entries. The only thing that the Home Luser version does not have is a policy editor. You have to make the registry entries "by hand". However, once the policies exist, they will be enforced no matter what the version restrictions say because policies are not version restricted -- only the policy editor is version restricted.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by AK Marc ( 707885 )
        Also gives a better experience because a lost user password can be remotely reset/recovered when you have an MS account. A local admin password lost is a harder fix for a home user.

        • I put an admin password on my mothers computer to stop her from downloading and installing stuff, usually from scammers. Every so often she'll ask me for the password with something like "I was told that I should have the password for safety reasons", and when I ask her for details it turns out that "someone" told her this over the phone. I dread upgrading her to Windows 10; I might go for Linux as it would be more familiar to her and she'll be less likely to ask me where I moved her buttons to.

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by Rhipf ( 525263 )

          I would have to disagree with this. It is much easier to recover a local account with a forgotten password than a Microsoft account with a forgotten password. If you haven't set up your Microsoft account with an alternative method of contact you are screwed. It is very easy to wipe the password of a local account so you can access the account if you forgot the password.
          I realize you qualified your statement with "for a home user" but again if the home user didn't have an alternative contact in their Microso

  • Another reason not to go with Windows (Score:4, Interesting)

    by quonset ( 4839537 ) on Tuesday February 25, 2020 @07:56PM (#59766724)

    I'm still on W7, but have decided I will have to make the jump to Linux when I can no longer support this machine. Apple is prohibitively expensive, not to mention underpowered for the price and you only get three years out of the hardware which you can't upgrade, for someone who does basic operations.

    The hard part will be transitioning to photo editing software for the little bit of photography I do (no, I do not use anything from Adobe). While the quality of open source software for photo editing is getting better, it is still behind major producers.

    But that is a small price to pay for not having shit shoved down my throat. I can only hope if my parents W10 machine needs reimaged I'll still be able to create local accounts.

    • Re:Another reason not to go with Windows (Score:5, Interesting)

      by oldgraybeard ( 2939809 ) on Tuesday February 25, 2020 @08:08PM (#59766778)
      I am just waiting for Ubuntu 20.04 LTS to build my next workstations.

      Windows 7 is the end of windows for me, except VMs for testing

      Just my 2 cents ;)

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Bert64 ( 520050 )

      Why only 3 years?
      Typing this on a 2015 macbook pro thats still just fine running the latest osx...

    • Re:Another reason not to go with Windows (Score:4, Informative)

      by JustAnotherOldGuy ( 4145623 ) on Tuesday February 25, 2020 @08:38PM (#59766876) Journal

      I'm still on W7, but have decided I will have to make the jump to Linux when I can no longer support this machine.

      I did the same thing just over a year ago and it's been great. I decided on Linux Mint and to borrow a phrase, "it just works".

      It picked up all my peripherals, mouse, scanner, etc etc without any issue. Now, I'm not a gamer so that might be an issue, but if not then I highly recommend switching. The only sticky part for me was finding some applications to replace some of my niche stuff (a card file app, a good FTP program, etc) but it wasn't hard, just a bit time-consuming to decide which ones would work for me.

      So yeah, I'm never going back to Windows. (I do have a Win10 box that runs some security camera software but all the update junk is turned off and it's been debloated as well. I don't use it for anything but security camera software so I think it's probably fairly safe.)

      With that said I say go for it, and I'd also say don't wait until Win7 crashes...start looking around now. Maybe get a cheap box to fiddle around with and install a flavor of Linux that looks right to you. I recommend Mint, but that's just because it works well for me.

      If you want a list of replacement apps for some of the typical stuff you might use everyday, let me know and I'll be glad to post 'em.

    • The problem is that there's always a few applications that requires windows, sometimes latest version.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by samdu ( 114873 )

      I tend to get many more than three years out of Mac hardware. My last machine, a lowly MacBook served me well for ten years before it started to feel long in the tooth. II ditched it when it finally wasn't supported by OS upgrades. My current machine is a late 2013 MacBook Pro and it feels fast and smooth still. Unless Apple changes CPUs again, I suspect it will continue to be supported by OS upgrades for at least the next few years.

      • I wonder to what degree this is still the case for laptops, as soldering everything to the MB is really the thing these days. My ThinkPad has soldered RAM; a conscious choice on my part to get something non-upgradeable in return for thin and light, but it is well-specced and well-supported under Linux if I ever get to where I don't need a Windows machine at all.

        For desktops, my wife's iMac (mid 2012) has a spinning rust drive; I looked into upgrading to an SSD, and while I certainly could do it, it looks

    • I use GIMP to edit my photos under whatever Windows happens to be installed... it's also available everywhere else, including Linux. It probably will do most of what you want, and the price is right.... free! 8)

  • Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Tuesday February 25, 2020 @07:58PM (#59766736)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Re:Fuck that noise. (Score:5, Interesting)

      by freeze128 ( 544774 ) on Tuesday February 25, 2020 @08:08PM (#59766774)
      That's *NOT* what is happening here! They *MOVED* the option to create a local account. That's it.

      It's annoying, yes. Most users who don't know better will create an on-line account just to get past it. But I would hope that visitors here *DO* know better, and keep using a local account. There are still PLENTY of places that don't have ubiquitous broadband internet, and those places STILL need a local operating system to run Microsoft office 2010. Yes, I know your linux distro doesn't have any of these shortcomings. Many people still need to use MS Windows. Get over it.

      Or do you want to provide linux tech support for my Grandma?

      • I think the point is that they're being shady about it, and essentially forcing most users to create a Microsoft account.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by sjames ( 1099 )

        I guess it must be in the "display department" [goodreads.com].

      • Re:Fuck that noise. (Score:4, Informative)

        by fgouget ( 925644 ) on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @01:43PM (#59769322)

        That's *NOT* what is happening here! They *MOVED* the option to create a local account. That's it.

        You obviously have not tried installing Windows lately. I had to reinstall Windows on a friend's laptop this january and there was absolutely no option to do so without creating a Microsoft account: there was absolutely no clickable text hidden at the bottom like there was in past versions. See this video here to see what I mean [youtu.be].

        The only way to bypass that was to DISCONNECT FROM THE INTERNET. Only then was there an option to not create a Microsoft account. That's not what I call "*MOVED* the option".

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

      • It was deliberately hidden in Windows 8.0 also, and you could only get to it in a way that is not obvious. You instead click the button to either login or create an account. Then instead of creating the account you click on the text at the bottom to "sign in without a Microsoft account".

        (Also confusing because for those upgrading from earlier Windows or who have used other operating systems, it is not obvious that you don't have to click on buttons but can click on plain unhighlighted text like it was a w

    • Yea it is completely out of the questions because anyone who knows anything about windows knows that local accounts are baked into the operating system. The entire file system, the registry, services, all the security on a Windows Operating system relies on local user accounts. They'd need a complete re-write of the OS to do away with it.

      Having said all that we'll see what they come up with in Windows 10X which essentially is a complete re-write of the OS, I'd be surprised if doesn't use all the same cons

  • Installed about 2 weeks ago, did not..... (Score:3)

    by rahvin112 ( 446269 ) on Tuesday February 25, 2020 @08:01PM (#59766754)

    I installed a new copy of Windows 10 about 2 weeks ago, I did not have to turn internet off to create a local account. They do a damn good job hiding the local account option and you have to go page through several warnings to create local but you can still create local accounts. Honestly if you aren't an experience user I doubt you could install windows with a local account at this point because they've hidden it so well.

    Unless Microsoft goes full monopoly (at severe risk in the EU to do so) they will keep the option available. Given the backlash against them for converting everyone to windows10 without permission I doubt the final version will hide this any further than it currently is. MS has a tendency to put stuff like this this in Beta's to test public reaction often without any intent of having it make it to the final version.

    • Re:Installed about 2 weeks ago, did not..... (Score:5, Informative)

      by WaffleMonster ( 969671 ) on Tuesday February 25, 2020 @08:31PM (#59766844)

      I installed a new copy of Windows 10 about 2 weeks ago, I did not have to turn internet off to create a local account. They do a damn good job hiding the local account option and you have to go page through several warnings to create local but you can still create local accounts. Honestly if you aren't an experience user I doubt you could install windows with a local account at this point because they've hidden it so well.

      Disconnect trick is only required for home users. If you installed professional edition option for local accounts is still there.

    • I installed a new copy of Windows 10 about 2 weeks ago, I did not have to turn internet off to create a local account. They do a damn good job hiding the local account option and you have to go page through several warnings to create local but you can still create local accounts. Honestly if you aren't an experience user I doubt you could install windows with a local account at this point because they've hidden it so well.

      Unless Microsoft goes full monopoly (at severe risk in the EU to do so) they will keep the option available. Given the backlash against them for converting everyone to windows10 without permission I doubt the final version will hide this any further than it currently is. MS has a tendency to put stuff like this this in Beta's to test public reaction often without any intent of having it make it to the final version.

      I did the same. Then I downloaded Revo Uninstaller free trial (to get all the goodies) and pulled the bullshit software out by the roots.

  • ... connecting your Windows 10 computer to the internet. That was the first mistake...

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by PPH ( 736903 )

      Out Of Box Experience. Just don't take the computer out of the box.

    • ... connecting your Windows 10 computer to the internet. That was the first mistake...

      Second mistake. Determining the first mistake is left as an exercise for the reader.

  • I'm calling BS (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Darkling-MHCN ( 222524 ) on Tuesday February 25, 2020 @08:07PM (#59766772)

    The consumer version of the OS... maybe, but the corporate version never !

    They'll always support windows domain or some variant of it such as Azure Active Directory Services. Corporates have way too much security in place in their networks that relies on DACLs, active directory accounts, local groups and local user accounts. Plus corporates will always want to have a private directory of employees and will not be pushed into sharing that information outside of their local fire-walled environment.

    • Not so fast, there are companies out there that are trying to enforce protocols that eliminate local accounts on systems for use.

      Stand-a-lone system deployments that are placed in DMZ and not domain or directory joined will obviously need changing first, but there is definitely some movement towards total elimination of local accounts because MS wants to own 100% of your interaction with their operating systems. Eventually, the OS itself will no longer be licensed... you access to it and the amount of reso

  • When I had to do a full reset I was surprised to see local option gone from the user setup. It did not happen with new installs at that time, however after you updated to the latest build, a system reset had that behavior.

    It is easy to see them moving OS as a platform to sell their online services. Either thru Office 365 kind of subscription, or ads inserted into the start menu and other surfaces. They no longer want to earn $100/seat one time during sale (even probably much less for OEMs), but rather have

    • Re:They have been doing this for a while (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Falos ( 2905315 ) on Tuesday February 25, 2020 @08:35PM (#59766858)

      Thank you. The problem is bigger than windows. Yes, it's wrong, screw win10, etc, but it's a symptom of a wider cancer where everything wants to inject itself into the loop. Which used to just be you and your purchase.

      Dependency, control, phoning home, "authenticating" your coffee and juicero and fridge, a requisite app (and login :D) not just for your pet feeder but every product possible.

      Unauthorized Bread was always relevant but I feel like the incident rate climbed after. Maybe it's just confirmation bias.
      https://news.slashdot.org/stor... [slashdot.org]

      • Yes, it's wrong, screw win10, etc, but it's a symptom of a wider cancer where everything wants to inject itself into the loop. Which used to just be you and your purchase.

        Everything's fine here in Linux land. Been happy and productive for 20 years now.

  • It is sad that the Industry is hooked on Windows. The government need to provide rehab. Oh Damm, the Government is hooked too.

    Forget the war on Drugs, It's time for the War on Windows. Start by locking up the pushers, You know the hardware sellers that sell the Window Crack.

    • How many people are actually buying new computers these days? Phones, yes, and MS is making a strong push into the Android market - though so far at least there area still alternatives (from Google and Apple, at least). But ultimately, if the only ones buying are businesses, MS will shrink down to something like IBM and everybody will just use their phones (and how many of THOSE can be rooted these days?).

      I fully expect, one of these updates, to be unable to get one from MS any more for my old beasts. Frank

  • Beware of your hotmail/outlook username (Score:5, Informative)

    by williamyf ( 227051 ) on Tuesday February 25, 2020 @08:33PM (#59766846)

    If you have a Hotmail/Outlook/Skype username that you use on a regular basis, beware of using it to activate a net account for Windows 10 and then erasing siad account. In certain versions of windows10, once you dleete the net account you used to create the local account, the system erases the hotmail/outlook/skype account as well.

    If you intend to install windows10 with a net acocunt to latter create a local account and erase the net account, play it safe (better safe than sorry) and use a throwaway hotmail account.

    Best luck.

  • I've disabled updates (and Candy Crush, Cortana, Minecraft, OneDrive, etc.) but eventually something terrible will happen to my installation and that will be the end of my relationship with Windows. Out of 3.1, 95, XP, 7, 8 & 10 I think XP was probably my favorite - it was just so beautiful compared to what I had before. 7 was pretty good. 8 clearly wasn't meant for me or my computer. In 10 Microsoft has tried to exert an unprecedented level of control over my system - to the point of ignoring me -
  • If you want as little cloud as possible in your OS, don't connect it to the internet during the initial setup/OOBE process.

  • ... and it was freaky.

    I didn't want to start off with a Microsoft account and went online with another computer to figure out how to avoid that.

    We're being boxed in and it doesn't smell legal.

    • It's legal. We let our politicians make it legal.

      Be proud. We've got the best government money can buy!

  • Even since Win7 "support" ended, I've been wondering how long until my collection of games starts to break as game updates roll out, and new games just refuse to install at all, and every so often find myself thinking, "Well, is Windows 10 really that bad...?"

    And today I discover -- once again -- Yes. Yes it is. So thank you, Microsoft, for the reminder.

  • I refurbish laptops for poor kids in local schools, and my cousin mentioned that she'd like some for her 4 kids. So for Christmas I bought some used Thinkpad T430's and refurbished them with 8 GB ram, SSD, new battery/bios battery, power supply. Basically a new computer as far as a bunch of 4-12 year old kids care. And then I tried installing Windows 10, and almost pulled my hair out.

    If anyone at Microsoft is reading, let me be as crystal clear as I can: If you ever remove the option for local account

  • Android (at least, Google's version) does the same. Iphones too. Samsung devices do this and ALSO create a Samsung account.

    This is happening because we are losing the fight that started 10 years ago, with devices and software requiring accounts for no good reason. TVs, Doorbells, etc. We have to educate people!

  • enterprise use will not like this or systems that to not go line / have very limited out side network usage.

  • I do not want a uniform experience (Score:3)

    by joe_frisch ( 1366229 ) on Tuesday February 25, 2020 @11:56PM (#59767424)

    I have different computers that I use for different purposes. I don't want the same desktop setup on my laptop as on my business computer as on my gaming computer. I don't want the same files stored locally. I don't want the same account because I treat security differently on different computers.

  • Far More Serious Issues (Score:4, Interesting)

    by ytene ( 4376651 ) on Wednesday February 26, 2020 @01:51AM (#59767634)
    In addition to the issues discussed in the OP, Microsoft have:-

    1. Tied disclosure of a public account to updates for other Windows Products - for example Office 2019

    2. Configured the Operating System to invisibly log users in to other Microsoft services - such as Skype - whether they like it or not, and then hidden the "do not do this" features to make it hard to disable


    For example, if you have purchased a copy of Office 2019 from the Microsoft store, you will now get a message from time to time to tell you that "updates are pending" - but nothing will download. Unless you "log in" using your Microsoft account. Let's make it very clear what Microsoft are doing here - they are tying the security of your PC and all *your* digital data, your digital life... and making it conditional upon you disclosing your identity to them.

    Just as governments around the world are waking up to the dangers of allowing companies to track citizens on line through cookies, fingerprinting, web beacons and the like, so Microsoft are pushing in to new ways of tracking you and identifying you that the regulators haven't yet realised.

    This is not by accident. This is more than mere greed on their part.

    This is malicious. It might well be illegal. Hopefully the EU will push back.
  • I switched to Linux almost 10 years ago and at this point, you can do just about anything that you can do on windows on Linux. The only place I still pine for windows software is with QuickBooks, other than that there isn't really a noticeable degradation in UX.

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