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The Internet

Internet 'is Not Working For Women and Girls', Says Sir Tim Berners-Lee (theguardian.com) 377

Posted by msmash from the closer-look dept.
An anonymous reader writes: Women and girls face a "growing crisis" of online harms, with sexual harassment, threatening messages and discrimination making the web an unsafe place to be, Sir Tim Berners-Lee has warned. The inventor of the world wide web said the "dangerous trend" in online abuse was forcing women out of jobs, causing girls to skip school, damaging relationships and silencing female opinions, prompting him to conclude that "the web is not working for women and girls." "The world has made important progress on gender equality thanks to the unceasing drive of committed champions everywhere," Berners-Lee wrote in an open letter to mark the web's 31st birthday on Thursday. "But I am seriously concerned that online harms facing women and girls -- especially those of colour, from LGBTQ+ communities and other marginalised groups -- threaten that progress."
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Internet 'is Not Working For Women and Girls', Says Sir Tim Berners-Lee More

Internet 'is Not Working For Women and Girls', Says Sir Tim Berners-Lee

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  • Looks like he's about to get sued! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by CajunArson ( 465943 ) on Thursday March 12, 2020 @10:43AM (#59821548) Journal

    I know how this game works. He comes out with a nicely pre-packaged virtue-signal that ticks all the right boxes. Perfect defensive measure.

    We'll be hearing about the 20 year old accusations really soon now.

    Incidentally, if "net neutrality" is your religion, how do you square it with wanting mass censorship because "strong" Womyns apparently can't handle the Internet?

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      If you read what he is saying carefully you will note that he isn't calling for censorship. He's calling for better spam filtering, essentially.

      Email would have died if it wasn't for spam filtering. At one point the vast majority of email was spam. Fortunately effective filters were developed and it remained usable.

      If you want a shitpost filter too they should be able to get one. It's not censorship if they just don't want to listen to that crap. It's exercising their right to choose what they read.

      Twitter

      • Re:Looks like he's about to get sued! (Score:4, Insightful)

        by laxguy ( 1179231 ) on Thursday March 12, 2020 @11:48AM (#59821974)
        you know whats easier and requires no development and infringes on no ones freedoms..? not clicking the link, not reading the article, not reading the comments, not posting your thoughts, etc etc if you cant handle the heat, stay out of the kitchen. pretending like this only happens to women is not helping anyone. if it hurts your feelies, don't take part.

        • Well yeah, here's an actual balanced article for a change:
          https://www.theguardian.com/me... [theguardian.com]

          It points out that men are actually more likely to face online abuse, but they're less likely to report it. Also have a higher suicide rate. Those are things to consider.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          Let's take the example of not reading the comments. YouTube lets you disable comments on your videos, and actually forces them to be disabled on certain content like video with children (they were getting a lot of comments for paedophiles).

          But if you choose to disable the comments it ensures that your video will be less popular due to scoring lower on engagement metrics. What people want is a way to filter out the comments they don't want.

          It's not censorship, it's not taking away your freedom. YouTube is a

      • Content filtering is a-okay SO LONG AS THE USER HAS COMPLETE CONTROL OF THE FILTER. Otoh mass censorship in the name of protecting damsels in emotional distress is just the same old totalitarian evil, dressed up in fashionable new clothes.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          Does every service have to offer that though? Isn't it enough that Disney exists for people who want extremely bland and inoffensive content, and that 4chan exists, and that there are a whole spectrum of sites in-between?

          Isn't that controlling the filter by selecting the site you want?

      • Re:Looks like he's about to get sued! (Score:4, Insightful)

        by sinij ( 911942 ) on Thursday March 12, 2020 @01:49PM (#59822586)

        If you read what he is saying carefully you will note that he isn't calling for censorship. He's calling for better spam filtering, essentially.

        From the article (you made me read that junk, just to see if maybe you are right): "Finally, he urged governments to strengthen laws that hold online abusers to account, and the public to speak up whenever they witnessed abuse online." He is calling for censorship, more so, he is calling for government to censor you by passing laws targeted at ill-defined "online abuse".

        You know what, I feel really abused by your post. My feeling were seriously hurt. Please report yourself to the nearest detention center, you online-violent brute.

      • If you read what he is saying carefully you will note that he isn't calling for censorship. He's calling for better spam filtering, essentially.

        If that is what he is saying, then why is he so inarticulate that only you can understand him?

        Also, how exactly would a spam filter work on the Internet as a whole? Would it be a packet-level protocol?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by taustin ( 171655 )

      Everyone approves of censorship, as long as they get to be the censor.

    • This is why you can't get a date. Have you tried not being creepy?

  • There aren't any girls on the internet (Score:5, Funny)

    by DarkRookie2 ( 5551422 ) on Thursday March 12, 2020 @10:47AM (#59821572)
    We all know this.
    They are all dudes pretending.

    And if she underage, that is a FBI agent.

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by PhrostyMcByte ( 589271 )
      For years the FBI has been super progressive hiring all these underage girls, but I wish they'd let them at least finish school before recruiting them as agents.

  • Don't announce that you are male or female (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 12, 2020 @10:54AM (#59821628)

    Don't announce that you are male or female, and you will be guaranteed equal treatment.

    If you want special treatment, I can't help you.

    • If only Facebook, etc allowed you to not announce if you are male or female. But they require you to use your real name.

      • If only Facebook, etc allowed you to not announce if you are male or female. But they require you to use your real name.

        I've never used Facebook, so could you explain how they force you to use your real name? If I wanted to call myself Caroline Johnson, as opposed to Charles Johnson (or vice versa), how would they know I was using a false name?

    • That works up until the point where you do something which is connected to your real life name, which many things require. Or until the point where you have to do something else that makes it clear whether one is a man or woman. Talk to some women sometime who are gamers and what happens the first few times they use a mic.
  • The age old of question of censorship. When does criticism cross from being constructive to being troll-ish? Whose rights reign supreme--the speaker or the listener?

    The main problem, IMHO, is that anonymity (which is an important component for free speech) sets up a positive feedback loop that escalates trollish behavior. Many internet based companies either won't, can't, or are unable to prune content that are contrarian to the population they intend to serve. Add those two together and you get content

    • Without anonymity you have enforcement of cancel culture. Yet there are many opinions short of full-throated Hitler support that should not be surpressed by fear of social sanction. Which really is corporate embarrassment leading to firing.

  • It is my sincere belief... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Kokuyo ( 549451 ) on Thursday March 12, 2020 @10:54AM (#59821634) Journal

    ...that most of the vitriol a woman faces online comes from other women telling her that she's doing being a woman wrong.

    The same goes for the lgbtdurbv+!&xyz group.

    I further think that there's a similar percentage of people just wanting to be asshats in anonymity as there was in the 90s and this people use against you whatever you show a weakness to. We call them trolls.

    How is it that this wasn't a problem of existential proportion back then but it is now?

    • The complexity and price of the technology required to access the Internet provides a continually lowering bar (lowered at $20 unlimited dial-up, lowered at broadband, lowered at useful accessibility on phones, etc). Someone who had to figure out their sound card had spontaneously changed IRQs and was keeping the modem from working, and corrected it, was less interested in shitting all over what they had worked to connect to.

      Also, a lot of the knee jerk SJW culture hadn't developed yet. (I wish to emphasize

  • This shit again (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Iamthecheese ( 1264298 ) on Thursday March 12, 2020 @10:54AM (#59821636)
    "Harassment" happens to everyone online, much more against men than women. Fuck your narrative, Slashdot.

    • I'm 6' and 250 lbs (Score:3, Insightful)

      by rsilvergun ( 571051 )
      Nobody's looking to fuck with me or to just plain fuck me. As a result I don't worry about online harassment spilling over to the real world because, well, I can beat the ever loving shit out of most of the kiddies that might try and dox me.

      Now, put yourself in the shoes of somebody who's 5'1", 100lbs and has on average 26lbs less muscle then a man. Sure, you can buy a gun, but maybe you don't want to (you're more likely to shoot yourself if you don't get training).

  • Who hasn't been stalked, badgered and harassed.??

  • Internet not working for women? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 12, 2020 @10:55AM (#59821642)
    Can they not get a WiFi signal in the kitchen?

  • It's about time we fork the Internet (Score:3)

    by jfdavis668 ( 1414919 ) on Thursday March 12, 2020 @10:59AM (#59821668)
    We need to develop one universal standard that covers everyone's use cases.

    • We need to develop one universal standard that covers everyone's use cases.

      You speak of a "universal standard" as if we humans didn't create this massive network that runs on a single communications standard, operates globally, is filled with everything from Alphabets to Zombie porn, and is available to anyone who can connect to it.

      Let's just do the logical thing here and recognize Lee's observation for what it is; Yet again, women find something not good enough.

      Shocking.

  • Internet pioneer. Virtue signaler.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by mi ( 197448 )

      Indeed...

      "But I am seriously concerned that online harms facing women and girls -- especially those of colour, from LGBTQ+ communities and other marginalised groups -- threaten that progress."

      What does the Internet know about your sex, or skin color, or even species [wikipedia.org]? Nothing other than what you tell everybody. In fact, it is easier to be a transgender online, because you don't even need to dress up (much less disfigure yourself) to "be" whoever you want to identify as.

      To pretend, that the soulless cables an

  • I haven't a clue who has and who has not got a dick on this forum. Some names might seem to give a clue but could be misleading. I have even less idea what colour they are.

    Of course he has shitstorm sites like Facebook in mind, and they are not "working" for anybody anyway, so removing "discrimination" there would effect zero improvement.

  • Relevence (Score:3)

    by Jarwulf ( 530523 ) on Thursday March 12, 2020 @11:03AM (#59821696)
    This guy invented one big thing and ever since he's been trying to stay relevant by jumping on to every fad that passes by. Its actually kinda said witnessing this.

  • Two internets (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward

    How about to solve the problem we set up another internet, and then make one of them exclusively for straight, white, cis-gendered men, and make the other exclusively for everyone else, and see how that goes?

    • I'd definitely hang out on the female internet. You can keep enjoying your sausage fest.

    • How about to solve the problem we set up another internet, and then make one of them exclusively for straight, white, cis-gendered men, and make the other exclusively for everyone else, and see how that goes?

      That's idiotic. The obvious solution is to make women wear burkas whenever using software that connects to the internet in some way.

  • online versus real life (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Wycliffe ( 116160 ) on Thursday March 12, 2020 @11:07AM (#59821728) Homepage

    In real life you could argue that women are physically weaker and can't defend themselves but online
    they have all the same options as everyone else. Also, online, if they don't like something they can
    just disconnect. Also, online you don't even have to tell people your gender.

    Equality is about equality of opportunity not necessarily equality of outcome.
    I don't see how the internet doesn't already offer that and you can't increase equality of opportunity past parity.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Bert64 ( 520050 )

      Exactly this...
      Your gender online is exactly what you claim it to be and everyone is equal. If you think being a minority transgender will cause you unnecessary hassle then just pretend to be a white male online.

  • Provide evidence. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday March 12, 2020 @11:09AM (#59821738)
    Enough of the posturing and virtue signalling without any evidence to back it up. If you're going to make a claim, substantiate it. If you're going to claim women receive disproportionate abuse on the internet, define what you mean by abuse and in what ways it is being applied, then provide evidence to back up your assertion that said abuse disproportionately effects women. You might even want to go so far as to further study whether this particular kind of abuse you're studying has a significant impact on the psyche.

    I'm not claiming any of this is false. I'm saying that a claim in the absence of evidence is meaningless, regardless of who makes it. Claiming that a statement is true because it was uttered by an expert is the definition of appeal to authority. I don't care who makes the claim. Back it up.
    • Well the numbers are out there, but they don't fit the popular narrative so you won't see them very often:
      Pew: [pewresearch.org]
      Overall, men are somewhat more likely to experience any form of harassing behavior online: 44% of men and 37% of women have experienced at least one of the six behaviors this study uses to define online harassment.
      Daily Beast [thedailybeast.com]
      On the whole, 2.5 percent of the tweets sent to the men but fewer than 1 percent of those sent to women were classified as abusive. Male politicians fared especially badly,

  • ya, I've got a crisis, too (Score:4, Interesting)

    by jm007 ( 746228 ) on Thursday March 12, 2020 @11:19AM (#59821790)
    .... I am not female and yet the internet, in fact the whole world, doesn't work they way I want it to

    wish I had some built in excuse for someone else to champion my cause; instead I have to deal with it and work around the fact that nobody gives a shit about me except me; indifference from the the world doesn't indicate a conspiracy to keep me down

    like others have mentioned and continuing with the established pattern, there's likely more to this than we're told
  • The 90% eyeballs that land on top 5 is presumably what he talks about. It's interesting that this outcome was one of the main criticism of the web in the early 90s (think violawww era usenet discussions). That unlike irc, usenet or email that were specifically designed to fragment power so one could avoid abuse easily, the web would turn the internet into another CompuServe. And sure it did.

    Now the guy who invented CompuServe2 is chastising us for each not being nice to another on there. Without ever men
  • Have they tried unplugging and then re-plugging in their router? I know that usually works for me, though I am a man (last time I checked anyways).

  • What? (Score:3)

    by Dunbal ( 464142 ) * on Thursday March 12, 2020 @11:38AM (#59821912)
    I don't know. With the amount of time my daughters spend on their phones I'd say it's working pretty well, Sir Tim.

  • On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog [wikipedia.org]

    As others have mentioned, all you have to do is not disclose details of your identity. Many of us have multiple handles that we use. You can choose what information you reveal about yourself, and where you reveal it. As an example: many people's slashdot handles give no indication of gender or identity.

    Some parts of the Internet have always been toxic. Some forums and chatrooms appear to be populated primarily by foul-mouthed 13-year-olds. Everyone who goes there wi

  • For the most part they have better things to do.

  • The problem is that people today are using their real identities online, 20 years ago we were advised to go online under an alias and not give away personal information.

    The Internet is all about equality, your alias can be anyone you want it to be and noone knows what (if any) relationship it has to your true identity. There's no such thing as a minority, and the fact that minority views can gain such traction online proves this.

    And people had thicker skins... There were trolls who would come and spew rando

  • If the internet knows your gender then you're doing it wrong and you deserve to be harassed for your rampant narcacism.
    Social media ruined the web
  • Is rare for me to experience coming to /.
    The privilege and fragility expressed by a majority is formidable.

  • Social media has ruined the Internet for everyone, not just women. Have you read the comments on any site anywhere in the last 5 years? It makes you want to burn the whole thing down and start over.

  • He says:
    “The world has made important progress on gender equality thanks to the unceasing drive of committed champions everywhere,” Berners-Lee wrote in an open letter to mark the web’s 31st birthday on Thursday. “But I am seriously concerned that online harms facing women and girls – especially those of colour, from LGBTQ+ communities and other marginalised groups – threaten that progress.”

    He proposes:
    - Better access to the Internet
    - Better AI to combat discriminat

  • "Sir"? (Score:2)

    by mi ( 197448 )

    Sir Tim Berners-Lee has warned

    I struggle to find a mention of Mr. Bernes-Lee, that wouldn't refer to him as "Sir" — because he was knighted, you know, by The Queen [w3.org].

    But so were other people, such as Rudy Guliani [latimes.com] — and yet, no one refers to him as "Sir". And hasn't even when Trump was still a Democrat, and Guliani was not working for him...

  • Stupid article (Score:3)

    by CQDX ( 2720013 ) on Thursday March 12, 2020 @12:31PM (#59822224)

    The Internet is just a pipe, it doesn't "do" anything. What he's complaining about is the bad behavior of people, bad behavior that has existed since the beginning of time. You'll never fix that because it's part of our DNA.

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