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The Internet News

Internet Archive Adds Fact Checks To Explain Web Page Takedowns (engadget.com) 115

AmiMoJo writes: Fact checking is increasingly a mainstay of the modern internet, and that now includes "dead" web pages. The Internet Archive has started adding fact checks and context to Wayback Machine pages to explain just why they were removed. If a page was part of a disinformation campaign or pulled due to a policy violation, a conspicuous yellow banner will explain as much. The checks come from a variety of well-established outlets, including FactCheck.org, Politifact, the AP and the Washington Post.

The archivists saw the fact checks as striking a balance between historical preservation and acknowledging the problems with resurfacing false info. It hoped users would "better understand what they are reading" in the archives. It's also striving for neutrality -- one banner for context explained that including a page in the Wayback Machine "should not be seen" as endorsing the content.

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Internet Archive Adds Fact Checks To Explain Web Page Takedowns

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  • Well.... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jawtheshark ( 198669 ) * <{moc.krahsehtwaj} {ta} {todhsals}> on Tuesday November 03, 2020 @06:03AM (#60679068) Homepage Journal
    "Those who control the past control the future". -- George Orwell'
    • But they can't take the sky from me ðY

    • by dbialac ( 320955 )
      Yep. What happens when facts come forward that your political movement doesn't like?
  • Bugger (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I guess a bunch of MSDN documentation will disappear now because those docs were always full of errors.
    • As opposed to the Apple information that disappeared because Apple didn't want it lurking around making them look bad? Like their response to the B&W G3 data corruption problems, which was "spend more money"? When they put the TIL articles into the KB they deleted that one so that people couldn't reference it any more. Microsoft has at least kept their content around so you could still see it, all the way back to the DOS 5 stuff.

    • It's a full time job to fact check Microsoft!

  • I can imagine the future textbooks: "In the first decade of the 2020, there were massive 'fake-news' attacks BUT we cannot prove that affirmation because pages were removed even from cache and backups... So we can only state that without any proof".

    • by Gravis Zero ( 934156 ) on Tuesday November 03, 2020 @07:10AM (#60679156)

      we cannot prove that affirmation because pages were removed even from cache and backups... So we can only state that without any proof".

      Who said they were removed? You clearly didn't actually read the post about it as the post shows examples of what they are doing. [archive.org]

      Nothing is removed from the archive.

    • Today, in the year 2525, we call that era in the early twenty first century the dim ages. Not because of the darkening of the sun, but because of the stupidity of the people. Now remember, you must be 18 years or older or have a signed permissions slip from your parents to go on our field trip to the Trump Presidential Library.

  • Useless Opinions (Score:4, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 03, 2020 @07:01AM (#60679142)

    The fact checkers are described as "well-established outlets", but not "neutral". So they've been around...around long enough for others to know which way they lean.

    • > but not "neutral"

      Anyone describing themselves as neutral is a liar and not to be trusted.

      The best anyone can do is try to be neutral and accept criticism as to why they have failed.

  • Why aren't they relocating to another country where they can host what their users want? If they don't another service will be started pretty soon.
  • by Gravis Zero ( 934156 ) on Tuesday November 03, 2020 @07:16AM (#60679162)

    The summary doesn't make it explicit, so I will: there is nothing being removed from archive.org. What they are doing is adding a little yellow warning banner to some pages [archive.org] that link to fact checking sites. The purpose of these banners may help people understand why the content was deleted from the "live" internet in the first place.

    I suspect this is the result of disinformation campaigns and qanon types from using archive.org to bypass takedowns that were intended to prevent the spread of disinformation.

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Tuesday November 03, 2020 @08:58AM (#60679320) Homepage Journal

      A common tactic with fake news is to link to archive.org instead of the original site. That adds some credibility to it by making it look like archive.org is preserving it for some presumably important reason, and by implying that it has already been censored by People Who Don't Want You To Know The Truth.

      • Is that even true? I don't follow any conspiracy theory types or go into any depth with that kind of nutty stuff outside of the casual surface glances to have a good chuckle, but the only person I've seen who would link to an archive said they were expressly doing so in order to deprive the original author of ad revenue from any clicks that might be sent their way.

        I don't think adding in a banner with a link to fact checkers is going to change anything since the conspiracy minded individuals don't trust
      • A common tactic with fake news is to link to archive.org instead of the original site. That adds some credibility to it by making it look like archive.org is preserving it for some presumably important reason, and by implying that it has already been censored by People Who Don't Want You To Know The Truth.

        The intersection of people who fall for 'fake news' and understand what archive.org is must be quite small. You need to provide some evidence for your conspiracy.

    • Well for one, there's a real question as to whether they should be adding content. I guess it could be handled in a safe and neutral way that could be quite handy if you want to "watch the watchers". Something like, "posted by X, removed by Y after review by Z", might be both objective and useful.

      But that's not the real issue. The real issue is that NOBODY has the authority or legitimate role to "prevent the spread of disinformation". There is only the individual duty to share and consume information

      • The real issue is that NOBODY has the authority or legitimate role to "prevent the spread of disinformation". There is only the individual duty to share and consume information in order to determine and share the truth.

        Nobody has the authority, but EVERYBODY has a legitimate role, and maybe a duty, in preventing the spread of disinformation.

    • by PPH ( 736903 )

      there is nothing being removed from archive.org

      Fine. Will they state which fact checking organization they used?

      Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

  • slippery slope (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 03, 2020 @07:25AM (#60679170)

    See? The pages are still there - we're just truthifying the pages to tell you they're BAD by the Ministry of Truth. The web pages are still there - 2020

    See? This information is dangerous and we have to protect people from it. The pages are still there but you have to request permission to see them and the yellow banners stay, explaining why the pages were removed for your own safety. This is to strike a fair balance of maintaining the archive while stopping the spread of misinformation - 2025

    Those pages never existed and any pages that are deemed to be spreading wrongthink have been removed automatically by the ministry of truth. We're here to protect you - 2030

    • Re: (Score:2, Troll)

      by quonset ( 4839537 )

      we're just truthifying the pages to tell you they're BAD by the Ministry of Truth

      I didn't know the Internet Archive was a government entity. You know, unlike the con artist and his cabal who tell you they're not lies, they're alternative facts. Without providing any evidence for the lies.

      But do go on about how making sure people understand the facts of a situation is a bad thing.

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Sorry to fact check your bullshit.

        I KnOw ThEyRe LiEs BeCaUsE FaCtChEcK.OrG SaId So. YoUr LiNks ArE PrOpAgAnDa AnD LiEs AnD NeEd To Be AfFixEd WiTh A YeLlOw StAr tO ShOw ThEy'Re QuEsTiOnAbLe.

        Like I said - it starts like Reddit did - just putting up a questionable banner. It starts like Twitter and Facebook and Google did by just adding a comment to the post with a link to the "correct side". Then the information got removed.

        But that's ok - right? It's just PrIvAtE InFoRmAtIoN. Have to protect people fro

    • by Reziac ( 43301 ) *

      Today, a yellow star, er, banner.
      Tomorrow, the bit bucket.

  • Winston Smith will always have a job.

  • Thanks for sharing great post
  • AP (Score:5, Insightful)

    by bill_mcgonigle ( 4333 ) * on Tuesday November 03, 2020 @08:48AM (#60679300) Homepage Journal

    Recent AP tweet:

    "Why does France incite anger in the Muslim world? Its brutal colonial past, staunch secular policies and tough-talking president who is seen as insensitive toward the Muslim faith all play a role."

    Of course you'll have to read about that on other news sites because AP has hidden the evidence of their ideological bias by deleting the tweet after outcry.

    That's not what a real news organization does - those ADD corrections or editors' notes. Like the Intercept should have when Greenwald went after the guy who coordinated the manhunt for Edward Snowden, instead of censoring him into quitting the paper he founded.

    It used to be that the news told me what happened and I had to figure out how to feel. Now they tell me how to feel and I have to figure out what happened.

    • Mod parent up

    • It used to be that the news told me what happened and I had to figure out how to feel.

      No, it wasn't. Articles were always written in leading ways which revealed bias, based on factors like word choice.

      Now they tell me how to feel and I have to figure out what happened.

      In your AP tweet example, you learn what [many] Muslims feel about France. I'm not seeing the problem here. If you want more information, it's only a web search away.

      • by Shotgun ( 30919 )

        In your AP tweet example, you learn what [many] Muslims feel about France. I'm not seeing the problem here. If you want more information, it's only a web search away.

        The twit at AP claims, without evidence, that France has:
        A) a brutal colonial past
        B) staunch secular policies
        C) a tough-talking president

        No where does it indicate how Muslims feel about France. It is a factual claim about France.

        • "The twit at AP claims, without evidence, that France has:
          A) a brutal colonial past
          B) staunch secular policies
          C) a tough-talking president"

          There is ample evidence for anyone paying attention that all those things are true. If you aren't paying attention, who is telling you to be outraged?

  • that gave up on truth and honesty and need a new gig where ethics and morals don't matter.
  • Once upon a time, there was a dead civilization.

    It lived on as a mediocre shadow of itself. Most people wanted it to simply continue on that path, although it involved a great deal of further social decay. Others resisted, seeing no point in decaying further, and hoping to someday resurrect the dead civilization and give it new life.

    All of the denialists -- those who wanted to continue dying -- united together to remove any mention of any alternative to continuing to die. They claimed that this was in defen

  • Fact check = censorship. That's all you need to know.

  • A F-ing crime against humanity and the future - you slimy evil horrors!

    It Just - Wrong but Just - to use pliers to rip your tongue out then drive the pliers through your eye to brain, and kill you vile evil horrors,..
    Then all the older women in your families. .. “we've been erasing history and allowing our Witch family Minions of Satan to direct us in redefining it, under the pretense of 'fact checking'.”

    God Demands Love, not Death, so when trying to find something important they took down to h

  • Is what we say it is. Carry on.
  • In the walls of the cubicle there were three orifices. To the right of the speakwrite, a small pneumatic tube for written messages, to the left, a larger one for newspapers; and in the side wall, within easy reach of Winston's arm, a large oblong slit protected by a wire grating. This last was for the disposal of waste paper. Similar slits existed in thousands or tens of thousands throughout the building, not only in every room but at short intervals in every corridor. For some reason they were nicknamed me

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