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The Internet

SmartThings Starts Saying Goodbye To Its Hardware (staceyoniot.com) 77

Posted by msmash from the internet-of-things dept.
Stacey Higginbotham: If you own a 2013 SmartThings hub (that's the original) or a SmartThings Link for the Nvidia Shield TV, your hardware will stop working on June 30 of this year. The device depreciation is part of the announced exodus from manufacturing and supporting its own hardware and the Groovy IDE that Samsung Smartthings announced last summer. SmartThings has set up a support page for customers still using those devices to help those users transition to newer hubs. That transition will also include a discount for users of the affected devices if they want to purchase the latest Aeotec version of the SmartThings hub. If you're still using either of the older devices you should expect an email that will provide a discount code to buy the Aeotec hub through TheSmartestHouse.com. That discount will be available until April 15.
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SmartThings Starts Saying Goodbye To Its Hardware More

SmartThings Starts Saying Goodbye To Its Hardware

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  • MQTT (Score:4, Interesting)

    by schweini ( 607711 ) on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @01:30PM (#61116426)
    There should be a required minimum functionality that all IoT systems expose over some standard protocol. E.g. MQTT, or at least some HTTP API.

    • Re:MQTT (Score:4, Insightful)

      by crow ( 16139 ) on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @01:50PM (#61116552) Homepage Journal

      At a minimum, they should push a final firmware update that changes the server hostname to something reserved, and switches from https to http so that there are no certificate errors. And release some API documentation. It won't take long for someone to write a home server to control the devices, and then you have smart devices without cloud privacy issues.

      Yeah, we really need something for all these smart cloud devices so that they don't cease to function when the provider shuts down their servers.

    • Tasmota ftw! I have smart plugs from cloudfree.shop; they run tasmota out of the box and will continue to function until HTTP over TCP/IP is deprecated.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by slaker ( 53818 )

      SmartThings are either Zigbee or Zwave devices. That Samsung is deprecating its support isn't terribly relevant; you can buy a Hubitat Elevation or just use one of the more expensive Echo devices to control whatever Smartthings you might have. Zigbee-only hubs can be found for as little as $30.

      Zigbee and Zwave are in fact standard protocols with broad support.

      • In fact you can build your own zwave hub. [z-wave.me] The only thing that doesn’t support zwave is DC ceiling fans which is really annoying.

      • The problem is that while zigbee lamps work (for certain values of work) with other zigbee hubs, other devices like switches usually don't.
        Honestly, reading this I am happy I've stayed with the philips stuff even though several slashdotters recommended smartthings.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

      I wonder if there's a market in providing a retrofit for some of these devices. ESP8266 modules are cheap and MQTT firmware is free. This isn't the first time this has happened either. There are a lot of Wink devices out there that don't work ever since Wink decided spying on their users wasn't good enough and started charging too.

  • If they are fucking over their old customers (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @01:31PM (#61116428)
    Why in the Wide Wide World of Sports would any rational person accept a discount code to buy something else that they suggest?

    • Indeed!
      Way back in the DOS times, I had a Gravis Ultrasound card. It was great at the time, but they didn't have working, stable drivers for Windows. Asked their support about this and they said that the card did not support Windows but I could buy a new card that did. So I did, but of another brand.

  • Smart way to spend money, bet it feels smart right now.

  • depreciation vs. deprecation. Well, I guess so. (Score:4, Informative)

    by ItsJustAPseudonym ( 1259172 ) on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @01:36PM (#61116478)
    I think the word that we're looking for here is "deprecation". As in deprecate [wordnik.com], to make obsolete, which is the main action being taken by this vendor.

    "Depreciation" is something that they will also accomplish indirectly, too, after the devices no longer work and become crappy e-waste. But the monetary effect is secondary.
    • Depreciation is a steady decrease is value. This is planned obsolescence. It would be fairly simple for the mfr to provide a boot unlocker that would allow owners to create their own firmware, but that would not ensure a continued revenue stream from locked-in customers.

    • Has this argument with a colleague all the damn time. We finally agreed depreciate and deprecate are almost interchangeable. Deprecate sounds like defecate so i prefer to use depreciate. They are depreciating the asset off the books, as in sunsetting it. Just think of it as depreciating it to zero.

      Both can be used when it comes to technology, is the bottom line.

  • I can see a reasonable case for stopping support for old devices. I've been in a situation where my company insisted on staying on an ancient version of a calendar app so long that the company rep admitted to me they no longer had any devs who knew the language it was written in much less how their old code worked. We were on version 6.x. The GA was 9.x.

    But simply turning off perfectly functional devices without *free* upgrade is horrible and a company I'd never buy from again.

    • I doubt there is any language obsolescence issue here though, nor any memory or hardware issue.

      Plenty of languages have endured for decades and have libraries that do the latest greatest things. Strangely enough the major software the world uses are in those languages too.

      • Yeah I know, I'm not saying this was a language problem for these smart device guys. They're just being greedy. In the case of our calendar app it was officially not supported about ten years earlier. The calendar app company literally had no one left who knew anything about it but senior management refused to budge until 2 years after we got to the point that any data corruption or other issues which were frequent required a restore to previous backup. That's pretty extreme and I have no issue with them

    • Don't buy hardware that depends on the cloud... Ever... Pretty much everything these things do can be done on your own hardware... OpenHab + a raspberry pi and you're no longer at the mercy of these people.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by cusco ( 717999 )

        For various values of "everything".

        Face it, you and I could cobble together something that worked from various pieces of hardware/software, but the great unwashed masses that make up the vast majority of consumers have no clue that it even can be done much less how nor why. They need to take something out of the box, follow a half page of instructions, and from then on it "just works". My niece can take a scrawl on a cocktail napkin scribbled by her boss during a 3-martini lunch with a client and make it

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

      The problem is that a company has to keep their servers and software up and running in order for your light switch to work in the first place.

      Stop supporting old hardware, no problem. Make your hardware dependent on your cloud server, problem.

  • and lightswitches in my house that work fine.

    I recently replaced what appears to be an original early 80s thermostat which also worked fine, just didn't have a programmable timer.

    Wtf would I replace these things with something that is exposed to the internet, requires software support, might not work next year if the manufacturer decides that it's a day ending in a y, so y not deprecate, and requires the added cognitive load of replacing it if it does get deprecated or accidentally bricked?

    What's the actual

    • Re:There are 30 year old outlets (Score:5, Funny)

      by rogoshen1 ( 2922505 ) on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @02:13PM (#61116690)

      imagine being forced to get up and a flip a light switch manually -- like some kind of filthy Luddite peasant. If you can't turn off a light or change the temperature from your smart phone while sitting on your couch watching rick and morty; you just aren't living life to its fullest.

      • Takes longer to unlock my device, start the app, login to the app, and then make the app function than it does to just get up and walk to the switch.

        • Add to that the amount of time you would spend setting up and troubleshooting issues that inevitably pop up will far exceed any time you save with a smart device like this.
          • I have my entire house wired with zwave switches, thermo stats, fan controllers, my garage door opener, blinds, locks. I have spent exactly zero time trouble shooting anything because it literally just works.
        • You know what takes less time for me? Having my z-wave dimmers automatically turn on my lights when it sees an alarm disarm event and it’s after dark. Or automatically turn on my mudroom light when it receives a door open event at night then turn it off a minute later. Or open and close my blinds at sunrise and sunset. Or turn on my porch light at night and off in the morning. No phone or app needed.

          • There is no cost and little effort/time involved in using my fingers to manipulate switches. My failure rate is near zero. And I'm not dependent on any cloud provider or network or signal - just the basic flow of electrons. I don't need an app for that.

            Let me guess, you configured your z-wave dimmers via mental telepathy? It was zero config, you just had to think it, right?

            • There is no cost and little effort/time involved in using my fingers to manipulate switches.

              To open and close my blinds on the second floor of my two story foyer. I have to, get my tallest ladder, extend it, position it, climb up the ladder, open/close the blinds, climb down the ladder, then put the ladder back in my garage. I would need todo that at least twice a day.

              Or I can take one minute and click some menus once and never have todo anything ever again. And it doesn’t rely on any cloud provider todo this.

              Which seems like less effort?

              • Sounds like a personal problem. If I had high windows I probably wouldn't cover them like that, making your strawman a non-issue.

                • If I had high windows I probably wouldn't cover them like that

                  Which would allow everyone to see into your house at night.

      • Re:There are 30 year old outlets (Score:4, Funny)

        by uncqual ( 836337 ) on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @04:07PM (#61117154)

        Some of us old farts actually remember when you had to get up and walk to the television set to change the channel or volume (and horizontal hold etc...). Although if you had kids you could use them to do it once you had trained them and threatened them enough so they would follow orders promptly and correctly - sort of a biological remote control.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by cusco ( 717999 )

          We learned how to "accidentally" bump the rabbit ears when requested to change the channel to something we didn't want to watch. Unfortunately that foolishness didn't last long and they mounted a good antenna when they put the new roof on.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by hawk ( 1151 )

          What was that old movie? "I Was a Teenage Remote Control" ?

          And be sue to call it a "clicker" when you ask the kids to pass it; it drives them *nuts*.

          And the expression on their face when you explain the audio clicking from it that caused the tuner to make a loud chunking noise as it rotated through the channels . . .

      • imagine being forced to get up and a flip a light switch manually -- like some kind of filthy Luddite peasant.

        I bet you say that while using your TV remote without the slightest sense of irony.

    • For a serious answer... I played with Wink for a while. I bought a Schlage wink-connected smart deadbolt with a number pad on it shortly before I had surgery, which I knew was going to make it excruciatingly painful to be up and about for a while. I was living alone at the time, and that made it so when someone came to visit I could keep my ass sitting on the couch or in bed or wherever I happened to be, and unlock the door for said visitor, and then lock it again when they left.

      It also allowed me to set

    • Silly fun, added complexity, added vulns, dependence on yet more shit which won't work in a grid outage without backup, and the dopamine hit of buying replacements as smartphones conditioned us to do.

      Everyone but myself should buy them.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

      I'd like my blinds to open in the morning when it's time to wake up. A gentle alarm clock. You can buy the things, but they're stupid expensive. Hundreds of dollars per window, and cloud spyware galore. Or you can take a $1 wifi module, $5 battery, $20 stepper motor and $10 or so of 3d printed chassis and make one.

      The only real reason I've ever seen for actual cloud access is so you can do things like turn on your AC remotely so it's cool when you get home.

    • and fireplace in my house that work fine.

      I recently replaced what appears to be an original early franklin which also worked fine, just didn't have a oven.

      Wtf would I replace these things with something that is exposed to natural gas supply, requires electricity, might not work next year if the manufacturer decides that it's a day ending in a y, so y not deprecate, and requires the added cognitive load of replacing it if it does get deprecated or accidentally bricked?

      What's the actual value proposition?

      Fixed that for you.

      • I get the joke, but the gas and electricity supplies are public utilities and cannot just be "deprecated" like the IoT crap in this article.

        • the gas and electricity supplies are public utilities and cannot just be "deprecated"

          You might want to ask Texas about that. And honestly, with climate change it’s only a matter of time before your natural gas service becomes deprecated.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by cusco ( 717999 )

      I can say, "Alexa, set the thermostat at the cottage to Occupied" before we leave and know that the place will be warm enough that our breath doesn't steam when we arrive. I don't have to move the pile of dogs sleeping on me to turn the reading light on in the living room. The antique lamp in our bedroom with the really stupid switch makes a really nice light with a smart plug lets me turn it on without climbing behind the dresser or ruining the value by rewiring it. I can turn the fishpond on for an hou

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by hawk ( 1151 )

        >I can say, "Alexa, set the thermostat at the cottage to Occupied" before we leave

        I prefer, "Natasha, give me a list of the people who had Alexa preheat their vacation homes."

        "Yes, Boris," she replies. "Shall I alert the usual second floor crew?"

        "Of course. And activate the moose traps while you're at it."

        ***

        OK, maybe amazon's security isn't that bad, but they *do* know.

        And I bought a Honeywell thermostat a few months ago that could be controlled by wifi.

        Well, not really, it turned out when I opened it

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by cusco ( 717999 )

          OK, maybe amazon's security isn't that bad, but they *do* know.

          Sure, but so what? The neighbors know when they see me loading the bins of food and clean laundry into the truckette that we're going away for a few days too, and if they miss that then my truck isn't in the driveway at night so it's kind of obvious anyway. They also know when we turn the plug labeled Bedroom on or off, or the plug labeled Fishpond. Not really sure where the value to them would be to analyze that, but it's not going to cost me anything either way so I don't really care.

    • These are the two words that people need to remember with anything, especially something that will be running your home. You want something that is local control, in your hands, and not reliant on an external cloud or service to function. If and when that external service stops functioning, you want to still have something that continues to work.

      This is why so many people recommend Home Advisor (which is open source automation), and more people are looking into Hubitat (not open source, but rules/automatio
      • You are so very correct!.
        Also, unlike what someone else stated smartthings is NOT all z-wave and zigbee, most devices we've found that work are wifi.
        Particularly locks, we've tried eight different z-wave smart locks from various vendors (kwikset, schlague, etc) and none would work for more than a few days before requiring removal from the door and bringing them in next to the hub for reprogramming.
        This was a failure mode unique to all of the locks, no issues with z-wave (or zigbee) devices that were adja

  • From Internet of Things... (Score:5, Funny)

    by LordHighExecutioner ( 4245243 ) on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @01:50PM (#61116558)
    ...to Internet off Things!

  • Smart Junk Creation. (Score:3)

    by swschrad ( 312009 ) on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @02:22PM (#61116750) Homepage Journal

    they're all doing it. are you really into tossing all your tech every few years? this "smart stuff" with no security, no upgrades, mystery abandonment schedules, and random inability to interconnect is dumber than a box of rocks. end the charade. it's a toy.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by sjames ( 1099 )

      With good aim, a box of rocks can turn the light on (or at least off), and doesn't depend on the cloud to work.

  • Incentivizing the customers... (Score:3)

    by DigitAl56K ( 805623 ) on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @02:22PM (#61116760)

    ... by shutting off their hardware.

    https://blog.smartthings.com/n... [smartthings.com]

    Beginning in Q1 2021, SmartThings and Aeotec will conduct joint activities to incentivize upgrades

    What does this mean for customers? SmartThings will continue to provide lasting support to current device and platform users.

    Apparently that isn't quite true.

    • This really should be a death sentence for any company. How they do something like this and get away with it is mind boggling.. Whats to keep them from doing that annually now to keep their pockets lined? Even if their stuff was totally amazing, how people are lulled into such complacency that they would do it again is kinda nuts to me. Its also why in don't really want cloud connected crap at home. And what I do have will either work without internet or I'm fine to lose

  • I make IoT devices (Score:3)

    by FeelGood314 ( 2516288 ) on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @02:29PM (#61116800)
    I also contribute to the various standards. This shouldn't be allowed. We need government regulation to ensure companies have a plan if they want to turn off their cloud connection. This would be good for companies like the one I work for because it would reduce the fear people have in investing in smart appliances.

    There needs to be a transition that is painless and easy for the existing customers. Yes, companies put all kinds of custom stuff in their IoT but there is a base functionality that everyone supports. Even if your IoT devices are zigbee or z-wave moving to a new hub is a pain. If your devices are WiFi then you are screwed because everyone has their own way of sending an on/off to a light bulb in WiFi. Maybe it will kill IoT over WiFi, or it might force companies to put actual functionality in the hubs so that they can work without a cloud connection. I don't know, I don't care what the solution is but we need one. Right now this is a mess and actions of Samsung just hurt my company.

    • No, we need a law to ban cloud-connected crap. Even worse, we need to eliminate the bait-and-switch of no-cloud -> cloud-optional -> cloud-mandatory transition that some manufacturers are doing (for no good reason). Ubiquiti and their Protect video line come to mind... although Tesla seems to be going down this rabbit hole as well.

      I have a few smart home devices that are all cloud-optional which is ok... but forcing a migration to the cloud is just stupid. The only device I can live with being clou

      • No, we need a law to ban cloud-connected crap.

        No. We need to fix the underlying causes which created cloud-connected crap in the first place, namely the loss of end-to-end connectivity of the internet. Get rid of IPv4, get rid of NAT, and actually go back to empowering people to connect to their devices without requiring a broker as a middleman.

        The cloud exists in part because there's no other user friendly way to enable smart devices to extend the reach beyond their home network, because we fucked up the network.

        • You are confusing a feature and a bug. I don’t want my IoT phoning home. If I want remote access I will set up my own VPN to protect myself from you.

          • No I'm conflating a core function. If you want a home appliance then get a home appliance. The I in IoT stands for something implying the ability to do something clever beyond the confines of your own mini world.

            Also nice work with VPN. Which cloud provider will serve as a VPN middle manager behind your broken CG-NAT'd internet connection? Why do I mention CG-NAT? Well if you have to ask I suggest you re-read my post above, god knows you spectacularly missed the point.

  • Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

  • So I started off my smart home journey with Lowe's Iris, which shutdown. I really can't complain because when Iris shutdown they paid everyone full retail price for any device connected to your hub. I bought plenty of things from eBay etc. So I moved most of those devices actually over to Smart Things, and replaced some of the ones that weren't compatible. Smart Things has not been an equivalent. There are plenty of things it just won't do. Every time the app updates it breaks something, or I have to figur
    • SmartThings is in the process of making more of the devices and automations work "offline", not be cloud dependant. That's the transition that is happening and began with the change from the old app to the new one, the discontinuation of the older API. However, the original hub, the one being discontinued, just isn't able to do the offline tasks, it doesn't have the necessary hardware. The second and third generation hubs are much more robust and can handle the offline tasks.

  • It's the smart thing to do (Score:3)

    by nospam007 ( 722110 ) * on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @04:45PM (#61117294)

    Really!

  • The only way to win is not to play.

  • At least in the Auto world manufacturers need to provide spare parts for 10 years after the last date of manufacture. My whole house is hooked up with smartthings devices, alarms, etc. I smell a class action suit coming.
    • The ADT hub/panel is also being discontinued on June 1st. Unfortunately the ADT connected sensors; contact, motion, smoke, CO, water will also no longer function and will also be discontinued. From SmartThings: “We wanted to let you know that we will be discontinuing support of your ADT SmartThings Home Security and Safety system effective June 1, 2021. Your ADT SmartThings Home Security and Safety devices (including the Security Hub, Detectors and Alarms) along with the optional 24/7 professional mo
      • That's because the ADT hub was based on the first generation SmartThings hub. As I noted in another reply, the first gen hub doesn't have the necessary hardware to operate offline as the new direction of SmartThings is going. SmartThings is making most of the devices and automations work "offline", not dependant upon the cloud. As to the ADT sensors and such, that was ADTs doing because they made those sensors proprietary, operating on a 900MHz band with a proprietary protocol. They aren't standard Zigb

  • The automotive industry is highly interested in this technology! :)

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