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Microsoft Technology IT

Fed-up Managers Declare Work From Home is Over (fortune.com) 289

OneHundredAndTen writes: It would seem that a majority of managers have decided to launch a campaign of threats to force people back into the office. From the report: About 77% of managers said they'd be willing to implement "severe consequences" -- including firing workers or cutting pay and benefits -- on those who refuse to return to the office, according to a recent survey by employment background check company GoodHire of 3,500 American managers.
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Fed-up Managers Declare Work From Home is Over

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 08, 2022 @03:31PM (#62429684)
    The managers realize they have become irrelevant as employees become more productive without managers' constant meddling.
    • by Viol8 ( 599362 ) on Friday April 08, 2022 @03:37PM (#62429734) Homepage

      Good managers dont meddle. However the BS that is known as Agile is geared up for them to do just that in the form of micro management. No team of functiong adults working on long term projects needs a meeting every day, much less being made to stand up like naughty children at school. But hey, buzzword bingo! Scrum, story, epic etc etc. Its a pointy hairs wet dream.

      • by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ) on Friday April 08, 2022 @03:47PM (#62429802)

        No team of functioning adults working on long term projects needs a meeting every day, much less being made to stand up like naughty children at school.

        Our scrums were done via conference call, but they made us stand up anyway. :-)

        • Our scrums were done via conference call, but they made us stand up anyway. :-)

          You know what, that's a great idea. I may implement it for my team, because our meetings are tending to last too long.

        • by sconeu ( 64226 )

          Our scrums were done via conference call, but they made us stand up anyway. :-)

          There's actually a point to that. It keeps people from getting into long-winded digressions.

          Granted, a good scrum master should keep things on track, but when someone from higher management shows up an starts talking, it's sometimes hard to derail them.

          Yeah, yeah, I know, they shouldn't even be at the daily standup.

        • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

          Brogrammers love scrums, though. Taking those away would be akin to staining their white baseball hat & white sunglasses with dog poop. C'mon you wanna code or stand around and bullshit with your frat buddies about the game? Hehe, hope your scrums are better than some I've been forced into.
      • by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 08, 2022 @03:47PM (#62429804)
        people don't leave jobs, they leave bad bosses.
      • I find that as long as the agility is lead by someone who is still a developer, it works great: it's nice having a feature that we're aiming for that is part of an epic... it gives me stuff to brainstorm off of when I've got some downtime to come up with neat small tweaks that all work together. When the agility is driven by managers at increasing distance from the code, there's an exponential badness to it... the process dominates the product.

      • by gink1 ( 1654993 ) on Friday April 08, 2022 @04:04PM (#62429912)

        Agile meetings work perfectly well as virtual meetings. The reason to eliminate work from home is to reinsert middle management back into each worker's life and enable micro-management again. Not to mention they have to justify their expensive offices and office leasing agreements.

        When they see how much lower the productivity is in the office they will think that more micro-management is the solution not realizing the work from home was lean and efficient in ways that the office grind can never be.

        Glad my company went to remote work and is sticking with it!

      • by hey! ( 33014 ) on Friday April 08, 2022 @04:17PM (#62429988) Homepage Journal

        Every methodology I've ever seen works for some but not others. The underlying reason is that many managers don't like the actual work of managing people -- at least the whole mix of tasks that need to get done.

        A manager has, broadly speaking, two functions with respect to subordinates. First, he has to provide them with direction. Second, he has to remove impediments to their getting their assignments done. The problem is lots of people like telling subordinates to do stuff but don't much care for solving other peoples' problems.

        Workers don't need new objectives every day. The *do* need problems solved every day. That means a daily meeting can be either very productive or very unproductive. Productive meetings tend to create work for the boss. Unproductive meetings tend to create work for the subordinates.

      • Micro-management was an issue long before Agile was invented, and is also a problem at shops that don't use Agile.

      • One more thing to add. Those daily meetings are often book at times which are only convenient to the aforementioned managers and seem to completely disregard core hours, if a company implements such a scheme.

        • by nasch ( 598556 )

          Which is utterly missing the point, because the manager isn't even required at such a meeting. Any org scheduling stand ups around the manager has clearly not understood the methodology they're claiming to implement.

      • However the BS that is known as Agile is geared up for them to do just that in the form of micro management. No team of functiong adults working on long term projects needs a meeting every day, much less being made to stand up like naughty children at school.

        Sorry to piss on your ignorant rant, but Agile has nothing to do with micromanaging. Hell my manager doesn't even attend our daily standup meetings because he treats us like adults who can figure our own day out.

      • by Rhys ( 96510 ) on Friday April 08, 2022 @06:10PM (#62430432)

        Bad micro managers gonna micro no matter what you're doing.

        I've had one boss run actually useful standups. It was amazing. Of course, they weren't "status-ups" like most standups are. Answer three questions: 1) is your (jira) board up to date (and nothing about the status or movement of those tickets!) 2) is anything blocking you 3) any topics for a brief group discussion? We'd be done with the board in a minute or two tops, and then talk about anything in our way, or anything we needed clarification or to hammer out between the BE/FE folks. If nobody had much of any discussion we'd be done in 5 tops.

        For that team, one month in we had a functional prototype (with full continuous delivery). In three months it was real, rather than a prototype. In six months, other teams were finally catching up to us and we had to quit chewing down features planned for future quarters and integrate with the incoming data stream. A few weeks later it was back to chewing down features.

        It is really amazing what you can get done with a small team and a great manager.

      • by alvinrod ( 889928 ) on Friday April 08, 2022 @07:20PM (#62430602)
        The whole point of the stand-up meeting in Scrum was that doing it for more than 15 minutes would be uncomfortable and that it shouldn't last longer than a brief status update with important conversations taking place afterwards between relevant parties who would know they needed to meet because of the quick morning meeting (the so-called daily scrum).

        These were envisioned to replace the hour long (or more!) sit down meetings that waste even more time. Of course middle management lives for that so I can see them fucking up Agile for everyone else as well. But it doesn't matter what you do or what you call it because they'll fuck it up no matter what.
      • No team of functiong adults working on long term projects needs a meeting every day, much less being made to stand up like naughty children at school. But hey, buzzword bingo! Scrum, story, epic etc etc. Its a pointy hairs wet dream.

        I've been on many teams with scrum and without. The ones who do it properly have much better results. You're standing to remind people to keep things short. The more comfortable they are, the longer they're likely to talk. Also, a team needs status updates so members know what everyone else is working on and how to help.

        If you can go without knowing what your team members are working on, you're in too large of a team or really shouldn't be in a team at all.

        It's cool you're the awesome lone wolf

    • by Jodka ( 520060 ) on Friday April 08, 2022 @04:22PM (#62430024)

      The managers realize they have become irrelevant as employees become more productive without managers' constant meddling.

      Largest most successful software project on Earth: Linux Kernel
      Number of managers: 0

      Linux kernel development has no mangers, only workers. Even Linus. For those who insist on calling the people at the top of the merge hierarchy "managers", then let's say that "managers" are correctly simply the best workers.

      You never want a software development team manager. You do want a lead developer.

      Those who are only managers are parasites. Every single time in my career when I have had a manger that person has either:
      1. Obstructed or reversed progress by making idiotic decisions.
      2. Engaged in misconduct; misdirecting funding, violating mandated policies.
      3. Taken credit for the work of others.
      4. Lied and blamed others to evade discipline for the above.

      I work for a company where, no matter what your job title, you were a worker. Everyone had to be producing work, setting up servers, writing code, something. By objective standards, that proved to be a super successful formula. Employee satisfaction and return on investments we were extreme positive outliers.

      Then because we went public someone decided to hire professional managers. They do not know anything, they have no skills, the do not understand anything, and make harmful decisions, they lie. And what is their roll? To assess and make decisions.

      It is fundamentally idiotic to selectively grant authority to people with no domain knowledge or skill. Yet almost all private and public institutions do that deliberately.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        I have been both a manager and a software lead. I think either breaks down when you have rotten team members, above, below or alongside you. And it's not cut and dry, that managers are/aren't useful/needed.

        As a manager, I had our sole sysadmin that flat refused to do the weekly backups (so I did it myself every week), and elsewhere had a QA team member lie and not do the full weekly tests they were assigned, just faked results. And I wasn't allowed to fire or discipline either of them, I had to "guide"

    • I'm not sure what fantasy world you live in, if anything the useless middle managers pester even more when everyone is remote. It's just easier to ignore them.
    • Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Friday April 08, 2022 @04:58PM (#62430188)
      Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by Joe_Dragon ( 2206452 ) on Friday April 08, 2022 @03:31PM (#62429686)

    then give out gas cards or other stuff to cover the cost vs work at home.

    • How about a tax rebate for companies doing WFH? This would reduce CO2 and gas usage more than anything.
      • Re: (Score:2, Troll)

        While they're at it how about a tax break for us who choose not to shit out kids.

        • Offensively put, but on the money.

          Our tax structure should incentivize each joint taxpayer having 1/2 a child or each taxpayer filing individually having one child, and massively disincentive anything more.

          The problem is that that will ultimately raise wages, and that's bad for the people the country is designed to work for.

          • Why? In the USA, population growth as nearly flatlined [brookings.edu]. It seems we are in no danger at all of having too many babies.

            In fact, if Japan is any indicator of our future, we may be looking at serious economic problems from having too few babies.

      • by torkus ( 1133985 )

        How about a tax rebate for companies doing WFH? This would reduce CO2 and gas usage more than anything.

        Corporate america gets enough tax breaks IMO. Maybe we start to think of employees as actual, worthwhile human beings that deserve more than to just survive and generate profit?

      • Gas usage, certainly. CO2, not so fast. Consider that when an office building is full of people, only one building needs HVAC; the workers can use the setback on their home thermostats. When everyone is WFH, everyone has to manage their own HVAC, and you can't use a setback if you're in the house all day. This likely represents an INCREASE in energy costs, thus an increase in emissions.

        And the company won't pay those increased energy costs for you either.

    • Gas cards don't compensate for hours spent in traffic... Also, they don't pay for 75% of a car's other costs. (Depreciation and maintenance.)

  • Nope. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by MachineShedFred ( 621896 ) on Friday April 08, 2022 @03:32PM (#62429696) Journal

    I'm still working from home, and will continue to. My company is built to work properly with remote workers anyway - we have offices in Grand Cayman and New York, engineers in UK, Portugal, New York, California, Oregon, Colorado, etc. and we have C-level execs that are remote.

    As it turns out, if you work for reasonable organizations, you get reasonable work conditions.

    • by Xenx ( 2211586 )
      It's almost as if not every person, or every company, is the same. What works for one does not work for all. I do believe that working from home is viable for a lot of jobs, but it's not a universal truth that it's easier or better.
      • Glad you agree that working in the office is not for everyone.
      • Well, sometimes the job finds that paying silicon valley salaries is too much, so the attrition starts. Then they find that the jobs in Alabama cost too much, so attrition starts there. Then pretty soon anyone doing actual work is overseas, including half of the management. Now if everyone insists that they must stay at home, and be paid the same as they used to when they were in the office, upper management might start considering ramping up the outsourcing plan...

        If someone is in a job that can be done

    • I'm still working from home, and will continue to. My company is built to work properly with remote workers anyway - we have offices in Grand Cayman and New York, engineers in UK, Portugal, New York, California, Oregon, Colorado, etc. and we have C-level execs that are remote.

      Certainly, but a lot depends on the company and type of work. As a consultant, I have no worked in office for over 20+ years; I am either at home or when needed at the client. OTOH, when I worked at power plants, it's real tough to operate a control room or fix a pump from home.

      As it turns out, if you work for reasonable organizations, you get reasonable work conditions.

      I suspect many companies will wind up with a blended model. Jobs that are more independent where all you are doing is designing something to a specific spec and using a computer are ripe for that; both in terms of favorable workin

  • by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Friday April 08, 2022 @03:37PM (#62429728)

    But how will you manage if you have no people working for you any longer, Mr Anderson?

  • by ranton ( 36917 ) on Friday April 08, 2022 @03:38PM (#62429746)

    From a selfish perspective, I hope managers do start forcing workers back into the office so hiring will become much easier for me over the next few years. Being able to offer workers the ability to work fully remote or hybrid will be a very cheap benefit to lure employees for a while.

    • 100%. Other companies making stupid decisions just makes a larger talent pool available to companies making decisions that are employee-friendly. I can't wait to hire a couple more engineers that get burned out on their current shitty employer forcing them to sit in traffic for several hours per week for less money.

  • by raymorris ( 2726007 ) on Friday April 08, 2022 @03:41PM (#62429758) Journal

    The actual survey shows a small majority of managers think remote work has gone well.

    So what's with this "77% willing to threaten" thing?
    They asked managers about *if and when* your company mandates return to the office, would you be willing to implement consequences for those who refuse?

    The headline and summary try to make it sound like they want to mandate return to office. That's not what the survey found. The survey found that **IF** and when the company says it's time to go back to the office, only 23% of managers would look past people flat out refusing (potentially putting their own jobs at risk by doing so).

    • Thanks for RTFA...I should have known better. New headline:

      "If your boss forces you to do something will you do it? 77% said Yes"

  • Bullshit (Score:4, Informative)

    by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Friday April 08, 2022 @03:41PM (#62429760)
    this is just there to get us fighting with our managers. Managers could give a fuck if you work from home. The ones that do real work are happy they can focus on it and the ones that goof can goof off more.

    The people who care are the ones that own real estate. The don't want to see the value of it plummet as people move out of big cities and office buildings are converted into apartments.
    • Re:Bullshit (Score:5, Insightful)

      by spun ( 1352 ) <loverevolutionary@@@yahoo...com> on Friday April 08, 2022 @04:05PM (#62429916) Journal

      I hoped someone would point this out. It's real estate investors that are pushing this the hardest. So much big money is invested into huge office buildings. So many of our lawmakers are heavily invested in real estate.

      I haven't specifically heard it but I'm guessing the oil companies are pressing pretty hard for a return to the office too.

      • It's also the mayors of big cities and people in the service industries that are pushing the return.

        MONEY.

        • by spun ( 1352 )

          "I can't believe you like money too. We should hang out." --Frito Pendejo

  • Hahaha (Score:4, Insightful)

    by boulat ( 216724 ) on Friday April 08, 2022 @03:43PM (#62429774)

    I fired my manager and started my own company.

    Always remember - engineers create value, not managers.

    • by mmell ( 832646 )
      I don't know - unplanned pregnancies being what they were back in the day - I may have created a manager or two when I was younger.
  • Fed-up Managers Declare Work From Home is Over

    Actually thought it said "Fed-Ex Managers" -- glad I was wrong, their drivers would be *really* upset ...

  • Now don't get me wrong, I have no issues with people working from home but how is some one getting fired for not going into the office severe? If I'm not where my job needs me to be (and without a good excuse) I'd get fired and that was true during covid as well. It's a pretty normal thing.

  • Workers are just exercising what the state of the market is.
    Funny how it sucks when it goes the other way, eh?

  • by SocietyoftheFist ( 316444 ) on Friday April 08, 2022 @03:54PM (#62429846)

    I personally know of a few places playing hardball and they are hemorrhaging like mad.

  • Funny that my management was expecting people to return to the office, but as a consulting company, we're already remote from all of out customers. Plus, most of our customers themselves are working from home. Silly to require us to commute to an office to participate in a Zoom call where all of the customers are joining the call from home (and they work for a Fortune 500 company). I'm far more productive without a wasted 40 minute commute each way.
  • I've had gastric bypass surgery, and my remaining bowels have become a miasmal generator of cthonian proportions.

    Between the friable glubberings and the unholy stench, I should be able to convince management that working from home is in all of our best interests.

  • Eric Schmidt (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Sebby ( 238625 ) on Friday April 08, 2022 @04:05PM (#62429914)

    Former Google CEO and chairman Eric Schmidt even recently weighed in about the return-to-work debate, saying that it's important people be at the office and he's happy the remote era seems to be ending.

    Riiiight, because we should trust someone that, given how Google treats its customers/developers/users now and how he was 'adult supervision' while Google was 'growing up', was clearly a shitty 'parent'.

  • We just poured a few million into a complete infrastructure overhaul including -- and spotlighting -- VDI expressly for remote work.

    Always ask yourself, with these articles:

    1. Which magazine / website? What is that publications usual tilt / agenda / spin?

    2. With "studies" and "surveys" -- who paid for them? What is their vested interest? This one was ran by a background-check firm, that ostensibly has an interest in screening slaves for employment suitability. Of course they want workers back at the of

  • should read "useless managers"

  • by nospam007 ( 722110 ) * on Friday April 08, 2022 @04:16PM (#62429978)

    the managers are not needed anymore.

  • success! (Score:4, Funny)

    by 0vi_king ( 514106 ) on Friday April 08, 2022 @04:20PM (#62430014) Homepage

    Because I am an incompetent manager and can't adapt with the times...

    I think ALL of you should have to come back to the office so I can show up to your cubicle and ask you stupid questions.

    I only GET CREDIT for management if I have people around me so I can hinder project progress in "real time".

    I can't CONTROL people properly when they are at home.

    We even tried monitoring their web cams....but they didn't like that either...

    I just don't understand these modern workers who want to "finish" and get back to their families and personal interests.

    Won't someone PLEASE think of the shareholders!

  • While I wish my employer would allow a full-time WFH solution, I'm grateful they've moved to a partial-WFH solution that is flexible. Each division's manager is able to set their own policy, and mine had stipulated 2 days per week in the office. 3 days WFH is nice enough and seems a good compromise. I can definitely tell that I'm more interrupted and therefore less personally productive when in the office. Whereas at home I'm only interrupted when it is work-related and typically for as short a time as

  • Figure out how many employees WANT to come back to the office, and then consolidate your real-estate footprint accordingly. If you have 10 buildings and only enough people to fill 6 of them want to come back to the office, then you can let go of at least 3 buildings to keep a little excess capacity. Beancounters are happy as you're paying less in leases/property taxes, employees are happy, and everyone can STFU and focus on their jobs.

  • by Tavor ( 845700 ) on Friday April 08, 2022 @04:29PM (#62430048)
    Have to protect the value of all that (currently) valuable Commercial Real Estate. No workers in the office means no need for large fancy office towers. There's lots at play here, this is just merely the one angle that stands out to me.
  • The seat fillers are currently available, but you might have to remember their names before you ask them to make your coffee. Points are awarded if you remember their dog's name as well.

  • In the past it could be really hard to spot them from just a couple interviews. Now if I don't see 'remote' on the job req, I know. What a wonderous new age this is.
  • by clambake ( 37702 ) on Friday April 08, 2022 @07:53PM (#62430674) Homepage

    Nobody's going back as long as your competitors want your employees.

  • by MoeDrippins ( 769977 ) on Sunday April 10, 2022 @10:38AM (#62433982)

    People whose jobs depend on meeting targets will probably meet targets; even if they have to destroy the enterprise to do it.
    -- Deming

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