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Microsoft The Military Technology

Microsoft's Army Goggles Left US Soldiers With Nausea, Headaches in Test (bloomberg.com) 68

Posted by msmash from the closer-look dept.
US soldiers using Microsoft's new goggles in their latest field test suffered "mission-affecting physical impairments" including headaches, eyestrain and nausea, according to a summary of the exercise compiled by the Pentagon's testing office. From a report: More than 80% of those who experienced discomfort had symptoms after less than three hours using the customized version of Microsoft's HoloLens goggles, Nickolas Guertin, director of Operation Test and Evaluation, said in a summary for Army and Defense Department officials. He said the system also is still experiencing too many failures of essential functions. The problems found in the testing in May and June were outlined in a 79-page report this month. The Army marked it "Controlled Unclassified Information" to prevent public distribution, but Bloomberg News obtained a summary. Despite the device's flaws, Guertin doesn't deem it a lost cause. He recommended that the Army "prioritize improvements" before widespread deployment to reduce the "physical discomfort of users." He said improvements are also needed to the goggle's low-light sensors, display clarity, field of vision and poor reliability of some essential functions.
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Microsoft's Army Goggles Left US Soldiers With Nausea, Headaches in Test More

Microsoft's Army Goggles Left US Soldiers With Nausea, Headaches in Test

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  • No need for needles or knives anymore. Just slap a HoloLens on 'em, and they'll be talking in no time!

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gweihir ( 88907 )

      I see the torturers are at it again. Something this vile will not go unpunished though.

  • VR Is Stupid (Score:4, Interesting)

    by rudy_wayne ( 414635 ) on Thursday October 13, 2022 @01:34PM (#62963283)
    Wearing gigantic goggles is stupid. Also, extra bonus stupidity:

    "The device's glow from the display was visible from hundreds of meters away, which could give away the position of the wearer."

    An excerpt of a US Army report on a recent field test included a soldier who tested the tech saying, "The devices would have gotten us killed."
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

      • Because AR is soooo much different.

        • In this case, yes. Hololens is like a pair of glasses, it doesn't enclose your head like VR goggles. The op posted:

          Wearing gigantic goggles is stupid.

          which is not the case for this device, as there are no gigantic goggles being tested.

          • I suppose I should have clicked through to the article...these devices are goggles....which makes me wonder where the glow was coming from.

            • I suppose I should have clicked through to the article...these devices are goggles....which makes me wonder where the glow was coming from.

              The glow comes from the projected light reflecting off of the user's face. They're not enclosed, so the user retains their peripheral vision unobstructed, but this leaves a big gap for light to exit after bouncing off of the user. Considering that a candle flame is visible to the unaided human eye a mile and a half away (outside of a city of course), the reflected glow off of the user's face is more than enough to be dangerous at sniper ranges and it's visible at 10 miles to someone with binoculars and a

          • In this case, yes. Hololens is like a pair of glasses, it doesn't enclose your head like VR goggles. The op posted:

            Wearing gigantic goggles is stupid.

            which is not the case for this device, as there are no gigantic goggles being tested.

            https://static.techspot.com/im... [techspot.com]

            I think anyone seeing that would call them googles.

            • I guess you missed my reply to my own comment that happened 50 minutes before your post saying the same thing?

              https://slashdot.org/comments.... [slashdot.org]

            • Because what I see in the picture implies that this is an AR system, which overlays metadata and such over what the soldier is looking at through the glasses. VR is typically a full 3D rendered world using opaque googles.

                So were they doing a full FOV render of a VR world in what is supposed to be an AR system?

              • Because what I see in the picture implies that this is an AR system, which overlays metadata and such over what the soldier is looking at through the glasses. VR is typically a full 3D rendered world using opaque googles.

                So were they doing a full FOV render of a VR world in what is supposed to be an AR system?

                Damned if I know - but they surely do look like Goggles.

              • So were they doing a full FOV render of a VR world in what is supposed to be an AR system?

                No. Hololens isn't capable of rendering a VR world and this project wasn't attempting it anyway. It's supposed to be useful overlays like a compass. The headache and eyestrain comes from trying to focus on extremely close images being presented to each eye just slightly wrongly vs what the brain expects.

                I can't guess why anyone would be nauseated wearing them.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Tablizer ( 95088 )

        > This is not VR stupid.

        No, it's Stupid VR.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by HiThere ( 15173 )

        Sloppy English strikes again.
        That is a stupid use of VR.
        Also the VR isn't ready for that kind of use, even if it were a good application.

        There's plenty of stupidity in using current VR in that application, though as this was a test, one can say that doing the test wasn't stupid.

    • Nothing stupid about that. This is how we here in America do "socialism". Instead of direct programs to citizens we do military contracts to large corporations and hope they hire enough people to keep the economy going.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by gtall ( 79522 )

        Yeah, that's like programs for vaccines to keep enough Americans from dying so they support the economy. Or like mandating enough safety features in automobiles so not too many Americans die so the rest keep the country going. Or like making sure food companies don't kill too many of us.

        Jesus you are an idiot.

    • Wearing gigantic goggles is stupid.

      Are you aware how important night vision goggles are? Wearing googles can certainly be justified if the payoff is there.

      • I was in the Army and later the National Guard spanning the late 90s to the late 00s, and I can vouch for the effectiveness of a force equipped with bulky night vision devices (googles/monocular) over a force without them. They're a significant force multiplier.

        That being said, the analog AN/PVS7s and AN/PVS14s I used have negligible latency, so you dont get the headaches that occur when your brain is not accustomed to higher latency systems. Depth perception sucks though.

    • Re:VR Is Stupid (Score:4, Insightful)

      by azcoyote ( 1101073 ) on Thursday October 13, 2022 @06:50PM (#62964579)

      An excerpt of a US Army report on a recent field test included a soldier who tested the tech saying, "The devices would have gotten us killed."

      In other words, Microsoft is bringing new meaaning to the Blue Screen of Death.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      Nightvision googles seem to work okay. I don't know how relatively bulky they are compared to Microsoft's product.

  • A certain percentage of the population get vertigo with VR immediately. This has been known for decades.

    This just adds another data point.

    • I'm just imagining them doing these test trying and carry around Virtual Boys for "science" or something bulky and silly. Head cannon is a lot more entertaining than reality.

      • I'm just imagining them doing these test trying and carry around Virtual Boys for "science" or something bulky and silly. Head cannon is a lot more entertaining than reality.

        Have you seen the photo from the article? In this case, head cannon = reality.

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Thud457 ( 234763 )
          There is no integrated canon in the device. This is just and AR battlespace awareness display. Stop muddying the waters.


          Also, Microsoft has a long history of products that leave users with nausea and headaches.
          • I suppose its not much different than having to carry night vision around with you, I was just expecting something more streamlined than what the picture showed.

          • I'm thinking that there is lag in the AR elements that are supposed to match up with what the soldier is seeing through the glasses, causing the headaches and vertigo.

            The light leakage problem might be from the brightness of the AR elements being turned up too high, but more likely leakage from the backlight of the LCD that is projecting onto the glasses (this was a problem with another HUD/AR system.)

            But the AR elements should never be much brighter than the surroundings at night, just enough to be

            • The problem is focal length, Hololens solves the prism problem with getting light into your eye without obscuring your vision but it doesn't solve the projector-in-your-eye problem. And this is a problem that all current VR solutions have, and people tolerate it to differing degrees. And it's independent of the lag problem, to which people also have a variety of responses. At a guess, the former is responsible for the [bulk of the] headaches, and the latter the nausea...

              These guys claim to have solved the f [mixed-news.com]

    • There is also a certain percentage of people who get motion sickness, which sounds like what the solders were experiencing, just mildly, as likely people who get car/boat sick aren't selected for the military too often.

      • TFS says 80% of users. I'm pretty sure 80% of people in a car don't get car sick.

        • There is a bit of difference between hours worth of usage and a few minutes from car sickness as well.
          There is a certain percentage that don't get motion sickness, but from hours of VR (or AR in this case) start to get nausea from the slight mismatch between movement induced by the processing requirements and draw speed.

        • Ah, so you fell for the tricky wording in the summary? Read the sentence again more slowly.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Tablizer ( 95088 )

        Beggars can't be choosers. Military recruitment is way down. They'll have to borrow a page from Russia and let Grandma and Grandpa join.

      • When I first started playing 3D games (way back in the Doom era), I suffered this problem a lot. But after a while I stopped feeling it, no matter how laggy or how fast the game is. Of course, YMMV, but for me it was simply a case of getting used to it.

        • I started in the Wolf 3d era, so around the same time. VR is different, though there are very few games that cause me issues, one of which is a roller coaster simulator, the up and down, and I take off the headset.

          Most games I have no issue with at all, but I will start having a bit of an issue when the movement in the headset is a bit slower than my physical movement. With AR, it would likely be even worse, since the rendered object movement wouldn't match the physical object movement, which could cause

    • A certain percentage of the population get vertigo with VR immediately. This has been known for decades.

      ...and was even on /. a few weeks ago: https://science.slashdot.org/s... [slashdot.org]
      The fact that this is an overlay won't change the VR sickness, I expect.

      • The biggest cause I think is when the AR (or VR) does not match up completely to the person's movement due to lag. It could be a shortcoming with the speed of processing, but it could also be due to the sensor array, or a number of other things. I am by no means an expert on AR, but AR lag will most likely be a problem that won't be completely eliminated despite the best efforts of the engineers designing the system. That it works at all is nothing short of amazing, but the flaws will be there (hopefully ma

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gtall ( 79522 )

      I get vertigo just using any MS gui, 'tis nothing but rat droppings.

  • Assuming those goggles are connected via the Internet, it's only a matter of time before soldiers start experiencing trouble with goggles that have been hacked. Some form of security will be in place and it will fail at some point.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by gweihir ( 88907 )

      With Microsoft? More like security will fail immediately when a competent attacker tries to get in. The only thing you can reliably secure MS crap when connected to the Internet is by switching it off. Or physical destruction if the power-off is software controlled. At least that part of MS "system administration" should be easily doable for the military.

      MS is not lacking ambition and money. What they lack is _skill_. Recently they have even started to hire failed Linux wannabe system designers (Poettering)

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by HiThere ( 15173 )

        I'm not sure they lack skill. But they don't have much motivation to fix security. It lets them keep demanding more money for new versions.

    • Not too much internet access in the field. It is highly unlikely that these are designed to just poll wifi APs.

  • I feel the very same nausea during a windows update and reboot cycle.

  • Just thinking about Microsoft making VR goggles gives me nausea and a headache.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Tablizer ( 95088 )

      > Just thinking about Microsoft making VR goggles gives me nausea and a headache.

      Just thinking about Microsoft gives me nausea and a headache.

      FTFY (They really need some business-land competition. They are making some really convoluted shit of late, even by MS's non-standards.)

  • .. when they get an update you cannot refuse. Not ideal for a battlefield.

    • "He pulled the trigger on his smart rifle and a screen lit up. 'We have some updates ready for you. This weapon will be rebooted in 5... 4... 3...' He was promptly vaporized by the alien combatant."

      LOL That sounds like it's straight out of a military sci-fi comedy like Bill, the Galactic Hero or Undying Mercenaries.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by gweihir ( 88907 )

        It does, doesn't it? But this is exactly the unprofessional crap MS inflicts even on "pro" version users of its ersatz OS.

  • I have a Navy Seal friend. He said the bigger problem is you have to reboot these things all the time, and when you do, it plays a little startup chime.

    LOL just kidding. Just because they emit visible light to the enemy, you shouldn't jump to conclusions that it would also emit noise, heat, or radio waves. It would be silly to design a headset that would be easy to target with a homing projectile, wouldn't it? Silly to anybody who wasn't making money selling homing projectiles or headsets...

  • Windows and other Microsoft products have been making users nauseous since 1980.

  • ...by the use of a VR device, or of a Microsoft product ?

  • This looks like another attack on MS. Where are the numbers? I see a prominent 80% figure near talk about bad outcomes. Do they want us to believe that 80% are having these troubles? There is nothing to indicate that ANY user found the product beneficial.

    I understand that it's fashionable to hate MS, Google, Apple, FB etc. But this isn't FB or Twitter. I expect better from Slashdot.

    • This is not new and not surprising. In fact, /. had an article about it just last month: https://science.slashdot.org/s... [slashdot.org]

      • A lot of people had vertigo with the computer game Descent. I think it had to do with how proficient you were with the controls. I noticed when I got 'good' I was actually leaning with the joystick. I experienced no vertigo with that game, when others had considerable vertigo. Which doesn't make sense as I get car sick very easy and motion sickness in general. This article thought it might have something to do with a slight lag in the display
        -begin quoted text-
        Visually induced motion sickness is a syndrome

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by SendBot ( 29932 )

      I understand that it's fashionable to hate MS, Google, Apple, FB etc. But this isn't FB or Twitter. I expect better from Slashdot.

      Ah yes, the /. community is famous for its sympathy and support for MS. How rude to suggest they forced (ahem, "negotiated") a poorly executed idea onto a captive audience just to chase market share and profit! /s

    • There is nothing to indicate that ANY user found the product beneficial.

      Slashdot uncritical thinking at it's finest.

      The people using aren't even told what the benefits are. They're not the ones who weigh them. This is a military device. They're ordered to do various things while wearing it, and they're also given a questionnaire.

      And even with the questionnaire, the raw numbers don't mean anything. The poll results on any such military questionnaire are sarcastic and whiny. They'll compare the results to what soldiers say about equipment before they decide what the results mean.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by HiThere ( 15173 )

        One can hope that they don't follow the old British doctrine of desiring a certain percentage of deaths.

  • This might be added to the "things that look good in movies but suck in real life" list.

    I'm thinking of those space helmets that were in some movies that had lights all around the edge. It looked good in the movies because it accented the helmet and illuminated the actor's face. Actors are used to bright lights. They just need to deliver their lines. Real astronauts need to use tools and stuff. They can't be annoyed by lights in their face. Real space helmets don't have lights next to the wearer's fac

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