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Transportation United States

Mississippi Passes Bill To Stop EV Dealers (electrek.co) 154

Posted by BeauHD from the 50th-place-in-everything dept.
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Electrek: The Mississippi Senate has passed a bill that will stop electric car companies from opening their own dealerships in the state [...]. The bill started as House Bill 401, which you can see on the Mississippi Legislature's website. It amends Mississippi law related to car dealerships, clarifying that EV manufacturers can't get around the state's dealership laws, an exception that has been used by some manufacturers who have never opened a licensed dealer before. This will stop EV manufacturers from opening any physical locations in Mississippi. There is an exception in the law carved out for Tesla, which currently operates a single location in Brandon, Mississippi. "Mississippi has no statewide electric vehicle purchase incentive but does impose an annual $150 tax on electric vehicles, far above the amount of taxation that a hypothetical similarly efficient gas vehicle would have to pay," notes Electrek. "This charge is approximately equivalent to the amount of gas taxes a similarly efficient gas vehicle would pay if it drove 100,000 miles in a year."
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Mississippi Passes Bill To Stop EV Dealers More

Mississippi Passes Bill To Stop EV Dealers

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  • Capitalism (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ceoyoyo ( 59147 ) on Friday March 03, 2023 @08:06PM (#63340633)

    Ah, good clean capitalism at work, comrade.

    • Re: Capitalism (Score:3, Interesting)

      by ArmoredDragon ( 3450605 )

      That's not capitalism dude... If that was capitalism, it would resemble a free market principle in at least some way, but it very much does the opposite by dictating who can even participate in the market at all. If we put free market vs planned economy on a spectrum though, I'd argue this sits closer to the planned economy (i.e. socialism) side.

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by blackomegax ( 807080 )
        You're confused.

        The Free Market(tm) and Capitalism(tm) are different things. Any economic system can have a The Free Market(tm) within it. Capitalism, at least as we colloquially refer to it, is just Oligarchy.



        Ironically, there has never BEEN a truly Free Market(tm) in existence, thus it is hard to say rather one would actually work, or not. Similar to how no truly Communist(tm) economy has ever existed (per the requirement to be both moneyless, and stateless), thus no real data exists on rather true

        • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

          by KiloByte ( 825081 )

          The concept of "capitalism" is a strawman by communist theoretists, which means: every economic system since the invention of money except communism itself, including those that don't use money (such as early kibbutzim), which is an insane grouping that includes diametrally opposed economies.

          Ironically, there has never BEEN a truly Free Market(tm) in existence,

          You forgot the US in late 19th century? It hasn't fared that well, considering that free market fails to cope with monopolies. You need a government that actively disrupts those -- but you need a government anyway, as

          • The concept of "capitalism" is a strawman by communist theoretists, which means: every economic system since the invention of money except communism itself

            No. Having a currency system doesn't mean you permit it to control the means of production. You can put all kinds of other controls on that. Capitalism doesn't mean anything else.

        • Re: (Score:3)

          by jythie ( 914043 )
          There can never be a true Free Market anyway. Free Markets are an ideal, an abstract, a toy. They can only exist when you remove ALL other methods of influencing the market. Free Markets are kind like anarchy, they crumble into other system at even the slightest concentration of any kind of power.

      • This is the party of small government using the government to interfere with business.

        • guns, babies, jesus

          these nuts just want to wallow in their own stupidity.

          well, let them have it. I never plan to ever see that state and for reasons not dissimilar to this.

          • No one here has yet fished their pocket calculator out from their shirt pocket?

            The gas tax levied by Mississippi is 18 cents/gallon.

            I rented a Hyundai Elantra with a 2 litre direct-injection engine and a CVT. I drove it for 150 miles with long lines of cars on my back bumper along the Front Range in the greater Denver area -- boy this car was dog slow and could barely climb a hill, but I filled 3 gallons at the Phillips station just before the rental return.

            A $150 level pays the gas tax for 42,000 m

      • Re: Capitalism (Score:4, Funny)

        by ceoyoyo ( 59147 ) on Friday March 03, 2023 @08:59PM (#63340761)

        You don't say!

        I really thought the addition of "comrade" was making the irony a bit obvious, but apparently I was wrong.

      • That's not capitalism dude... If that was capitalism, it would resemble a free market principle in at least some way, but it very much does the opposite by dictating who can even participate in the market at all. If we put free market vs planned economy on a spectrum though, I'd argue this sits closer to the planned economy (i.e. socialism) side.

        In no way is this laissez faire, far from it. I suppose one could label this as democratic capitalism, where market forces are either shaped or dictated by the government that is ostensibly elected by the people. However, government is almost always nonuniform in its representation of interests across the population (or even the voting population). In this particular case, such anti-EV rules are usually motivated by a combination of economic interests (those who benefit from the gas economy), ideological

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Z80a ( 971949 )

      The best era we had was when we had capitalism but the government constantly breaking the corporations.
      Socialism fucking sucks because it's a monopoly, megacorporations fucking suck because they're monopolies.
      It's like, letting one retard command the entire sector with no repercussions for his stupid ideas is not very productive.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )

        "The best era we had was when we had capitalism but the government constantly breaking the corporations."

        That's called capitalism. Capitalism requires regulation to avoid various degenerate states that purely free market systems tend towards. The modern pundit uses "free market" and "capitalism" interchangeably, and regards any regulation as bad (except in Mississippi I guess), but if you don't have enough regulation you end up with feudalism.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by jythie ( 914043 )
      Sad thing is, these laws started as a way of leveling the playing field. Due to the massive power imbalance between global car companies that can shift around costs, and local businesses with little warchest, local dealerships could be put out of business pretty much any time a manufacturer wanted. It is kinda like the old Standard Oil problem with gas stations. Big producer could wipe out local competition then bring their prices back up. Since consumers have the time horizon of gold fish they will hap

  • This author [chuckthompson.com] was prescient.

    The Red states in the South are a disgrace.

    • States are as their public choose them to be through action or inaction. My action is not to live there.

      BTW no matter who governed MS if they were locals it would still suck and outsiders would fail due to local indifference. There's no good guy/bad guy dichotomy, just dumb and dumber. You don't get to be that poor being intelligent.

  • Killing themselves just to own the libs (Score:5, Insightful)

    by BishopBerkeley ( 734647 ) on Friday March 03, 2023 @08:09PM (#63340647) Journal
    Very few Republicans seem to grow up enough to understand that it's wrong to do things out of spite. The entire GOP apparatus exists to spite "the libs", a straw man, an entirely fictitious construct. It's incredibly sad. There are real crises to deal with, including the global warming crisis, and all these guys can do is pass laws to appease the ignoramuses groomed by conservative media.

    • Very few Republicans seem to grow up enough to understand that it's wrong to do things out of spite.

      Florida did exactly that with gas stoves. At the mere mention of a potential ban, DeSantis announced a desire to make gas stoves a tax-exempt purchase. [wfla.com]

    • Re:Killing themselves just to own the libs (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Darinbob ( 1142669 ) on Friday March 03, 2023 @09:06PM (#63340789)

      It's about what's good for us and bad for them. So, be all for the free market when it's for us or if your opponents are doing things that have regulation or safety nets. But throw out the free market if it benefits your opponents. Or in simpler terms; if your voters like it then you're for it, if you're voters aren't likely for it then you're probably against it. Ideology has nothing to do with this, it's just pandering.

      Ie EVs have been typecast as liberal, anti-coal (which many of our voters have as jobs), anti-oil (where they get their campaign donations), and not necessarily popular with the older crowd (their voters) therefore they are against it.

      To be fair though, there were some reasons for the original distinction between auto makers and auto dealerships, and keeping them separate for anti trust issues. The snag is that if the company wants to sell their vehicles in a non-traditional way (dealership with sales guys in plaid suits giving you the hard sale and calling you "missy" and asking where your husband is, etc).

      I don't think Mississippi is explicitly taking the anti-trust route here, it's more likely they're just anti-EV or else the auto dealerships had lobbyists with deeper pockets (never underestimate the capability of southern lawmakers to be bought and sold).

      • Re:Killing themselves just to own the libs (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Registered Coward v2 ( 447531 ) on Friday March 03, 2023 @11:15PM (#63341053)

        auto dealerships had lobbyists with deeper pockets (never underestimate the capability of southern lawmakers to be bought and sold).

        That about sums it up. Car dealerships, especially the chain ones, have a lot of cash to spread around to protect their franchise model. They are no doubt worried that the major manufacturers may decide they they don't need the dealer infrastructure for EVs and will follow Tesla's model with separate EV lines.

    • I dont expect much from the non-thinking class. I used to think a certain min would be there, but not anymore. I've seen a lot over just the past 4 or 6 years and I've seen all I need to see.

      they exist to 'other' people. its a primitive feeling but its who they are. its just who they *are*.

      they wont change. they are forever children, mentally. sorry if that offends but just LOOK at who they like and admire and for what reasons.

      look at their leader and how he writes. presidential? ever? not once. n

    • Very few Republicans seem to grow up enough to understand that it's wrong to do things out of spite. The entire GOP apparatus exists to spite "the libs", a straw man, an entirely fictitious construct. It's incredibly sad. There are real crises to deal with, including the global warming crisis, and all these guys can do is pass laws to appease the ignoramuses groomed by conservative media.

      My party is good and the other party is bad. I know this because I read a misleading headline and believed it to be true without bothering to read the readily available underlying material.

      • Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)

        by imgod2u ( 812837 )

        How is this headline misleading? Is Mississippi really not trying to ban company-owned dealerships which are exclusively aimed at upstart EV companies? The fact that there's a specific carveout for Tesla (who's owner happens to politically align with the State's party) has to have any remaining "free market, get government out of the way" Republicans gasping into their monocals.

        Sadly the Republican party of today no longer holds principles anymore. It's "own the libs" regardless of what it takes. I remember

    • Ya, it's exactly the same as when the Democrats shout "Trump!" to get their base riled up.

    • Or it could be that it's a poor rural state that doesn't want to be on the hook for Federal funds to build and maintain a charger infrastructure when they already have millions of gas burners on the roads with plenty of gas stations.

      Sucks for anyone there that wants an EV though.

      • That's not the reasoning the legislators are offering. It's not as if they will be spared the effects of global warming.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by imgod2u ( 812837 )

        Because the rural states pay the federal funds? No they don't. The rural States take in more tax $$ than they give. And that money is already appropriated by Congress anyway. So I don't exactly see the win here except as a symbolic "f u" win.

        Which may feel good if you're cheering for a sports team. But utterly idiotic as public policy.

    • Like the Brits say, cutting off their noses to spite their faces. Or, like they say in Spanish, sarna con gusto no pica.
  • I don't think they are intelligent to know how stupid that appears. Even Elon Musk, a Republican, must be confused.

    • I don't think they are intelligent to know how stupid that is. Even Elon Musk, a Republican, must be confused.

      Fixed that for ya!

    • Even Elon Musk, a Republican, must be confused.

      Musk is a liberal when it involves policies which directly benefit him, and a libertarian the remainder of the time.

  • Mississippi isn't banning EV Dealers (Score:3, Informative)

    by hudsucker ( 676767 ) on Friday March 03, 2023 @08:16PM (#63340669)

    The summary is misleading. What they are banning is any car sales that do not go through a dealership. It just happens that EV companies would prefer to sell direct from the manufacturer.

    Texas is the same way. The reason for the law is that car dealerships have a lot of clout, because in rural areas they may be the biggest business. So they can put a lot of pressure on the state lawmakers to make rules that car manufacturers must go through a non-company owned dealership.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Anonymous Coward

      The summary is misleading. What they are banning is any car sales that do not go through a dealership.

      No, you're being misleading. Almost certainly an outright lie.

      They already banned car sales that don't go through dealers, that was around a decade ago.
      NOW they are banning EV companies from opening dealerships.

      It just happens that EV companies would prefer to sell direct from the manufacturer.

      You are again being misleading.
      "Prefer" means a choice. We never use "prefer" to describe something you are FORCED into doing.
      Please try to English.

      As they are barred from opening dealerships in the state, they are FORCED to sell direct.
      Not preferred. Forced.

      • They already banned car sales that don't go through dealers, that was around a decade ago.

        EVs are only referenced once in the entire text of the bill. That text is part of an exception item grandfathering Tesla. It's not punishing EVs it's exempting a subset of them.

        NOW they are banning EV companies from opening dealerships.

        Manufacturer owned dealerships are an oxymoron.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by XXongo ( 3986865 )

      The summary is misleading. What they are banning is any car sales that do not go through a dealership.

      Correct, if you continue that sentence to add the important part: "...that is not owned by the car manufacturer."

      It just happens that EV companies would prefer to sell direct from the manufacturer.

      One specific EV company, anyway: Tesla.

      Texas is the same way. The reason for the law is that car dealerships have a lot of clout, because in rural areas they may be the biggest business. So they can put a lot of pressure on the state lawmakers to make rules that car manufacturers must go through a non-company owned dealership.

      Yep.

  • On the one side are Republicans, who will do most anything out of spite they can get away with. On the other side are EV owners, who whine about states trying to cover the cost of maintaining roads which traditionally are paid for via gasoline taxes - no matter how high or low the new taxes are.

    I suspect both sides are being somewhat disingenuous here. I'm sure many Republicans hate EVs on principle, and I'm sure many EV owners would prefer we ignore that their cars weigh much more than "hypothetical simila

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by imgod2u ( 812837 )

      That kinda points to how silly it is to pay for roads with gas taxes rather than simply out of a "general funds". But yes, EV's do take a higher toll on roads and that money must come from somewhere.

      But then again, if we're going to quibble about "who uses more resources should pay more" then there's a whole swath of people out there who aren't pulling their weight.

      • Yup and this is already a solved problem as many states already charge EVs an extra fee at registration to make up for the gas tax.

        https://www.myev.com/research/... [myev.com]

        I imagine the gas tax sticks around since it's a case of people not as keen to notice a small tax on a frequent purchase but would notice that their yearly registration is double the price potentially.

  • This is so cartoonishly villainous that sounds like they're trying to lure captain planet to capture him or something.

  • ...they're expecting GM, Ford, Tesla and Stellantis to close their dealerships? Or did this not get thought through because the only way fossil fuel is sticking around as the default consumer energy source is in the imagination of someone suffering from late-stage lead poisoning?

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by bigwill666 ( 708480 )
      Ford and GM do not operate their own dealerships. They are all owned and operated by a third party, which is how the country has worked for a very long time. EV manufacturers tried selling direct to consumers, but were not allowed in many states. SO, they started opening their own dealerships owned by the manufacturer which pissed off the third party dealerships. The dealerships lobbied to get this law to protect the way things have been working.

      • Re:So effecitvely... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by bugs2squash ( 1132591 ) on Friday March 03, 2023 @09:19PM (#63340813)
        to ensure buying a car is such a shitty experience

        • We bought our last car through CarMax. I can't imagine ever going through a traditional dealership again - the experience was so much better.

          • CarMax doesn't sell new cars. I'm glad you had a great experience. But it should be possible to buy a new car with similarly good experience. However, the way cars are sold inhibits that. Hence why car manufacturers without a history of dealerships want to sell direct.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by cstacy ( 534252 )

              CarMax doesn't sell new cars.

              Yes, they do.

              I bought a brand new Altima from CarMax a while back. I was looking for a good used car at the time, but for just a couple thousand more dollars, I got this current-year brand-new one. And I knew what the VIN was on my car, and the total price, before I went to the place. Drove it home after a quick test drive. No fucking around.

              My previous new-car experience some years back was at a mega dealer Toyota place. That took about four times longer to do and I had to negotiate. But it wasn't especial

              • A while back, CarMax sold new cars. Today, CarMax does not sell new cars. You won't be able to repeat that experience.

            • Maybe try your local credit union. Mine has a car-buying service that I used for my last new car purchase. You tell them what you want and they handle the legwork of finding it and negotiating the price. Then they ship it to a branch of the CU, and you sign the papers there. I was in and out with my keys in about 30 minutes and paid less than invoice.

              • That sounds pretty nice. My plan for car buying right now is to simply drive the ones I own indefinitely. My wife has never bought a brand new one, so we might make that purchase. However, after that, there's nothing short of failure beyond repair that would make me deal with the car buying process.

  • Mississippi taxes gasoline at $0.18/gal [igentax.com]. $150 works out to about 833 gallons, or 120 MPG.

    I mean that's fair math, but it's the 100K miles per year feels excessive... especially when the state average is 19,966 miles per year [thezebra.com]
    =Smidge=

  • Just let this one play out (Score:5, Insightful)

    by hdyoung ( 5182939 ) on Friday March 03, 2023 @09:01PM (#63340765)
    No need to do anything, get outraged, or even think about em any further. Literally, f&*k em. Mississippi is straight-up the poorest state in the US, in terms of gdp per capita. Mississippi has literally the LEAST productive citizens in the US. If they insist on sticking with last centuries technology, the impact on the rest of the US won't even be a whisper. It's not a civil rights or a human rights issue. Anyone unhappy with being literally THE POOREST can hitchhike across the state border and instantly get a better life.

    This problem will resolve itself. Move along citizen.

    • The culture of a state is the collective expression of its people.
      If they wanted things to be different they would take action.

      Not my state, not my people, not my problem and none of my business,

    • Literally, f&*k em

      Do I have to? Literally? Disgusting. Can I use your dick, instead? I don't wanna put my dick in Mississippi.

  • Nice car tax bill, I should move there (Score:3)

    by leonbev ( 111395 ) on Friday March 03, 2023 @09:08PM (#63340791) Journal

    I wish that I only paid $150 a year in taxes for my car in Connecticut. For your average $40,000 new car, the typical annual property tax bill is around $600 to $900 a year, and that's on top of the normal vehicle registration fees.

  • $150 is a bargain. (Score:3)

    by Mspangler ( 770054 ) on Friday March 03, 2023 @09:49PM (#63340889)

    "annual $150 tax on electric vehicles, far above the amount of taxation that a hypothetical similarly efficient gas vehicle would have to pay,""

    Gas tax here is 49 cents a gallon. So that $150 is 306 gallons. In the Chevy Aveo that would get me 9800 miles, and I typically drove it about 11,000 miles a year.

    Highway wear and tear is proportional to vehicle weight, not mpg. The Aveo was a 2500 lb car. How much does an EV weigh? Here there is an extra "fee" for weight, all vehicles less than 4000 lb have to pay $25 above base registration, including my 550 lb motorcycle.

    The next step up in weight fees is $45 up to 6000 lb.

    • Highway wear and tear is proportional to vehicle weight, not mpg. The Aveo was a 2500 lb car. How much does an EV weigh? Here there is an extra "fee" for weight, all vehicles less than 4000 lb have to pay $25 above base registration, including my 550 lb motorcycle.

      A 2500lb car and a 5000lb car do virtually identical amounts of road damage, which is to say, jack diddly shit. Trucks (not pickups) and Buses do orders of magnitude more damage, they should be paying basically all of the road taxes if the idea is that whoever damages it pays for it.

      Of course, that is actually a dumb idea. Not because the principle is unfair, but because not all of the road damage is done by vehicles. Some of it is done by weather, or by sinkholes, etc.

    • Tennessee implemented something similar a few years ago. I pay an additional $100 every year for my EV. Itâ(TM)s still less than Iâ(TM)d pay in gas taxes given how much I drive if I had an ICE vehicle in the same price range as my EV.

  • Misleading Summary (and Article) (Score:4, Interesting)

    by quantaman ( 517394 ) on Saturday March 04, 2023 @01:14AM (#63341241)

    The summary and article do everything they can to make it sound like Mississippi is trying to prevent the sale of EVs in their state.

    This article is a bit clearer [usatoday.com]:

    House Bill 401, which had both bipartisan support and opposition, would clarify the state's franchise laws to say that car companies cannot operate their own dealerships and must instead work with franchisees. That would directly conflict with the business model used by electric car companies like Tesla and Rivian.

    [...]

    The bill's supporters, like Sen. Daniel Sparks, R-Belmont, say it is intended to ensure legacy car manufacturers and electric manufacturers play by the same rules. Sparks also said the bill would preserve more than 50 years of precedent, under which car dealerships operated as franchises not as direct assets of the car manufacturers.

    [...]

    Sparks said the public should know that the bill would not restrict individuals from purchasing electric cars online directly from manufacturers,

    Basically, car companies aren't allowed to own their own dealerships, instead, they need to franchise (allowing 3rd parties to own and operate the dealerships). The law change is clarifying that EVs need to follow the same rule as traditional car companies.

    It's a bit of an antiquated law though I'm not certain I understand why franchising dealerships is so bad for Tesla and Rivian's business models.

    • So far, for ICE car manufacturers that started making EVs, dealerships have been pushing hard against having to sell them because they're much simpler and require fewer repairs.

      As far as pure EV manufacturers are concerned, Rivian and Lucid have one model each, Tesla current has four.
      What exactly is a dealership going to do, guide a potential buyer to the company website where they can see all the prices, help them pick from a handful of options and then charge a middleman fee for the privilege?

      So far Tesla

    • I'm not certain I understand why franchising dealerships is so bad for Tesla and Rivian's business models.

      People hate dealers and dealerships, and they should. The dealers offer literally nothing you couldn't get better somewhere else. Before the internets and being able to order parts maybe they had a use, but now all they do is make buying a vehicle more expensive and more annoying.

      There's good reason for used car dealers to exist, but literally the only value of the dealer to a customer is test drives, which could easily be managed in some other way.

    • I donâ(TM)t see franchises providing much value for any car company. Iâ(TM)ve seen arguments for and against but have not seen anything that proves dealerships are a net-positive for consumers.

  • Stupid headline (Score:3)

    by flyingfsck ( 986395 ) on Saturday March 04, 2023 @05:48AM (#63341463)
    Mississippi bans direct factory sellers. They only allow independent dealers. Thus is an anti-trust measure to prevent monopolies.

  • How about lowering the cost of EVs to the point where they can afford them in MS?

    Hyundai was set to be able to do that when the incentives were allowed. Instead, those incentives apply only to American made EVsâ¦Tesla and Ford. And, Tesla, anyway, raised the price after briefly lowering it with the incentives.

    Get the price for a decent EV like the IQ6 down to low to mid 30K range and I bet Mississippians will clamber for them. But, they wonâ(TM)t be able to buy them if the bill becomes law.

  • I'd think they could get around this by having 'online' dealerships and using a service like Carvana to deliver them to the buyers. Of course the next step for a braindead state like Mississippi will be to ban EV charging stations, likely even installation of them at private residences.

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