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Social Networks

Decentralized Social Networking App Damus To Be Removed From App Store (techcrunch.com) 30

Posted by msmash from the how-about-that dept.
Damus, a decentralized social networking app backed by Twitter co-founder Jack Dorsey, will be removed from the App Store due to Apple's strict payment rules. From a report: Apple had threatened to remove Damus earlier this month over the app's tips feature, claiming that it could be used by content creators to sell digital content on the platform. The tech giant has a long history of prohibiting developers from selling additional in-app content unless the transactions go through Apple, which takes a 30% cut. To avoid a ban, the team behind Damus had to tweak the app's tipping feature, which is made possible by way of Bitcoin's Lightning Network. The company previously explained in a tweet that it had to remove the tips button from posts and was only allowed to permit tips on profiles.
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Decentralized Social Networking App Damus To Be Removed From App Store More

Decentralized Social Networking App Damus To Be Removed From App Store

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  • I am glad Apple keeps pushing it.

    If they won't stop they'll be stopped.

    • This policy is egregious on their part. They provided a great service keeping all the bullshit off the platform, but at this cost, they will get regulated, and the experience will degrade. Malware is coming for our phones, like it or not.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Teckla ( 630646 )

        They provided a great service keeping all the bullshit off the platform, but at this cost, they will get regulated, and the experience will degrade. Malware is coming for our phones, like it or not.

        Do you think it's possible for Apple's UI to make using third party apps stores sufficiently scary and/or difficult that the vast majority of users will continue to only use the primary Apple App Store with all its protections?

  • Iâ(TM)ll say it again ⦠(Score:4, Insightful)

    by seth_hartbecke ( 27500 ) on Tuesday June 27, 2023 @04:44PM (#63637802) Homepage

    Itâ(TM)s MY computer apple. I paid a very large amount of money for it. I âoeget toâ run the programs I want to run on it.

    If you want to toss in a bunch of warning dialogues that I have to tap through, fine.

    But past that, let me run the apps I want to run.

    • You didn't read it the licenses at all... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by franzrogar ( 3986783 ) on Tuesday June 27, 2023 @05:09PM (#63637886)

      None of the Apple products are "yours".

      You're just a lesee, not a proprietor. The hardware belongs to Apple, not to you.

      • Because you think any Android device is yours? Unless you rooted it and remove Gapps, your cellphone or tablet a Google surveillance device that you paid for.

        It's not limited to computer stuff either. Just ask any farmer with a modern John Deere tractor or combine. Or any driver of a modern car that you can't service yourself anymore, or you need to pay a subscription to unlock certain features that you paid for but are artificially disabled. Or any drone owner who's artificially restricted from flying in c

        • The phone is yours, but the software is not. You can write your own software if you know how. Until then, the OS is subject to a license agreement. Before you accept the license, you are free to return the hardware it came with if you disagree with it.

          I have no idea why on /. seemingly intelligent people can't seem to get the idea that just because you spend money on something doesn't mean you have absolute right to everything included. Just because you buy a car does not give you the right to all the pr

          • Itâ(TM)s yours much in the same way a car refusing to go to certain places at the makersâ(TM) will would.

            • No, it will go anywhere. It is just like you wanting to add a feature to the radio and demanding access to the source code or freedom to load your own apps on the center display of your car. You'll be told to go fuck off if you call GM and ask them to let you do it. You could replace your head unit, but thats on you.
        • Whataboutism is strong with you, "You're a murder" "So are other people so that makes it OK", sounds kind of silly.

  • Is their a lawyer in da house /s (Score:3)

    by takionya ( 7833802 ) on Tuesday June 27, 2023 @04:50PM (#63637826)
    Apple: Agreements and Guidelines for Apple Developers

    Apple: Apple Media Services Terms and Conditions

    Apple: Legal - Minimum Terms of Developer's End-User License ...

    Apple: Developer Program License Agreement

    Apple: Paid Applications Agreement (Schedules 2 and 3 of the Apple Developer Program License Agreement)

    Apple: Developer Enterprise Program License Agreement

    Apple: iOS Developer University Program License Agreement

    Apple: Apple Developer Agreement

    Apple: App Store Connect Terms of Service

    Apple: TestFlight Terms and Conditions

    Apple: Developer Forums Agreement
    • It would cost you more than the retainer for a lawyer to just read all of that, never mind actually apply your specific rights and contention to the situation that those documents all govern.

  • If I were them I'd leave off the Bitcoin Cash tipping (just for the iOS app, leave it in place elsewhere), and allow users to tip using IAP - explaining that 80% will go to the person you are tipping, 15% to Apple (no way is that app making over $1m/year anytime soon, so Apple would take 15%, not 30%) and 5% to the app developers to pay for moving the money to the people you are tipping from the Apple payments.

    Why not err on the side of at least having some path that gets money to the content creators?

    • Not feasible since it's a client on the open-source nostr network, and nostr has bitcoin lightning tips natively implemented (as satoshis). There'd have to be some mechanism in the app to purchase and manage bitcoin to send as nostr tips, and no one is going to pay a 15% or higher premium to purchase bitcoin.

      • There'd have to be some mechanism in the app to purchase and manage bitcoin to send as nostr tips, and no one is going to pay a 15% or higher premium to purchase bitcoin.

        The idea is you'd hide that part from the user, letting them tip a specific amount, then the company that writes the app would send that amount minus the commission as a tip as a nostr tip from their servers. So the person getting tipped would get less, but at least they'd get something. If I were the company I'd wait for a week or so to

        • So, you're charging a 15% premium on bitcoin without telling the user? Do you think that is ethical?

          Damus will remain available with lightning tips on Mac without the restriction because there is no walled garden there. No one wants to pay Apple a 15% premium for tips that exist without the premium for dollars.

          • So, you're charging a 15% premium on bitcoin without telling the user? Do you think that is ethical?

            No. The user is saying "tip $1". Which you are also clearly saying, 80% of will go to the person they are tipping.

            The user always knows what they are paying; tat's how iAP works. You cannot mislead the user because the system clearly says how much they will be paying, it's up to you to explain what that money will buy.

            The whole point is any tips from apps, even at a 15% reduction, is better than $0 because

        • BTW, we are talking satoshis here, so these are micropayments that are substantially smaller than the minimum IAP value. Think tips on the order of 10 satoshis (common values are 1, 21, and 69). Satoshis currently go for about 3300/dollar.

          And just to emphasize an important point: nostr exists entirely independent of Damus and Apple. There are dozens of web, Android, and other clients. No one is going to consider using a client that demands a 15% or higher premium for the ecosystem.

          • BTW, we are talking satoshis here, so these are micropayments that are substantially smaller than the minimum IAP value. Think tips on the order of 10 satoshis (common values are 1, 21, and 69)

            No, we are not, we are obviously only talking about values possible to be paid through IAP. which is at minimum $1 (maybe $0.50 is possible now, I forget).

            The whole point is that the original tipping system and the iAP tipping system are completely disconnected, so you can manage actually distributing the IAP funds ho

            • No, we are not, we are obviously only talking about values possible to be paid through IAP. which is at minimum $1 (maybe $0.50 is possible now, I forget).

              You can pretend not to understand or whatever it is you're doing here, but the ecosystem of nostr doesn't support values in those amounts. There's no sensible business model for developing an client for nostr that has these ridiculously high minimum payments.

  • Web browsers (all Safari under the hood) and remote-desktop apps inherently allows payments that bypass Apple.

    Same goes for just about any app that allows 2-way communication that's not restricted by content.

    Yes, Phone app and SMS-text app, I'm looking at you.

  • So decentralized that it's only available from the app store

  • I don't get the need for an app to wrap every little thing. What's wrong with a mobile-friendly web app? That's beyond the control of Apple or Google and only needs to be written once instead of once for each mobile platform.

    • I imagine WASM and WebGL/WebGPU combined with a responsive mobile design could replace a large percentage of what is locked into each ecosystems app store. The ultra-intrusive ad frameworks baked into most popular *.apks are probably too tempting for developers to just drop though.

  • Socialising should not be about making money and there really is no need for blockchains, cryptocurrencies or any other planet-destroying mechanisms of decentralisation. Plus, in real life, tipping is a disgusting practice and it should not be a part of our online experiences either.

    It is time we started saying no to nonsense like this and started socialising with one another in an ad-free environment without any profit motives involved. Whether that is using truly free, truly serverless SNS services lik
  • Fuck them up the ass with a rusty tire iron. - Sent on my iPhone
  • It has nothing to do with Bitcoin. Also, it's a complete failure
  • Say it with me, loudly, for the people in the back...

    FUCK APPLE.

    Nothing they have ever done, are doing, or ever will do is for the "benefit of their customer". It's for the benefit of them, their bottom line, and their shareholders. Full stop. They give zero fucks about you, overcharge you for everything they make, are anti-consumer at every turn, and you fucking idiots gobble it up.

    Apple has zero right to demand a cut of a tip or donation, regardless of its intended purpose. FTC step the fuck up a

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