Mercedes-Benz Is the First German Automaker To Adopt Tesla's EV Charging Standard

Mercedes-Benz is the latest automaker to commit to adopting Tesla's electric vehicle charging connectors for its vehicles. The Verge reports: Starting in 2024, the German automaker will offer adapters to its customers so they can access Tesla Supercharger stations, which use the company's North American Charging Standard (NACS) plug and outlet. And in 2025, Mercedes will begin to manufacture EVs with Tesla's charging port, obviating the need for an adapter. The company joins Ford, GM, Volvo, Polestar, and Rivian in adopting Tesla's connector, which is rapidly becoming the de facto charging standard in North America and Europe. Mercedes is also the first German automaker to jump on the Tesla bandwagon, putting pressure on Volkswagen and BMW to follow suit. VW, along with Hyundai, Kia, and Stellantis, has previously confirmed it is in talks with Musk's company about adopting NACS.

Mercedes also announced it plans on expanding its network of EV charging stations in North America to 400 hubs with more than 2,500 "high-power chargers," which will also grow to include Tesla's NACS connector. The company plans on installing 2,000 hubs with 10,000 chargers worldwide. Mercedes announced earlier this year that it was working with ChargePoint and MN8, a solar company, to install chargers in key cities and along major highways. The first stations, which will be accessible to Mercedes and non-Mercedes EV owners, are scheduled to open in the fourth quarter of 2023.

Another One Joins The Masses

[NoWayNoShapeNoForm]

So what if there were previous standards for these plugs. Those standards are not worth anything if they do not gain support from a majority of auto manufacturers and hep bring about the required charging infrastructure.

Perhaps there is a much simpler reason for why the Tesla plug standard is being widely adopted...

Tesla started building out it's own network of charging stations...and kept on building out while other charging standards seemed to languish for lack of private funding. It was a classic "chicken & egg" conundrum for the non-Tesla standards.

Having the supporting infrastructure in place is just as important as building vehicles that will make use of it. And that combination will facilitate more people at least considered the change from an ICE to an EV vehicle. Who wants an EV when they can only charge it at their home? Assuming they can obtain the necessary permits (a US thing) to install it.

Now tackle the speed of charging. If EV charging takes much longer than the average stop at a gas station to fill your car's empty gas tank, you might not buy that EV. So 15 minutes to a full charge seems a reasonable target if automakers want to attract more customers to their EV vehicles.

Re:Another One Joins The Masses

[Joce640k]

We should all standardize on USB-C and be done with it. All this infighting helps nobody.

Re:

[Firethorn]

I can assure you that building permits are NOT just a "US thing". Matter of fact, the USA, outside of a few areas like NYC, require FEWER permits than most other locations.

Indeed, pulling a permit for installing an EV charger should be relatively easy in such areas if you're doing a professional install, as electricians will be used to pulling them. It's not much different than, say, installing an oven or welder outlet in the garage for whatever reason.

And even if not, I'm handy enough that I don't see mu

Re: Another One Joins The Masses

[e3m4n]

In many areas in the US, youre allowed to do your own electrical in residential buildings. Commercial buildings, OTOH, require licensed electricians. Some building owners seem to forget that, and later get slammed with fines if its obvious the work was not professional.

Re: Another One Joins The Masses

[e3m4n]

One step toward making the tesla charging port recognized as a standard is to stop calling it the tesla charging port and give it a new name. At one point ISL trunking was a cisco proprietary feature before ieee adopted and changed it slightly into what is now 802.1Q. ATT labs created an ISDN protocol that later became adopted as National-1. And im sure many still remember Rockwell/Lucent battling it out with US Robotics over k56flex vs X2; later standardized into the ITU standard V.92. This sort of univ

Re:

[nukenerd]

If EV charging takes much longer than the average stop at a gas station to fill your car's empty gas tank, you might not buy that EV. So 15 minutes to a full charge seems a reasonable target .....

Filling my gas tank takes me nowhere near 15 minutes.

Re:

[ukoda]

Getting off subject? NACS vs CCS2 does not affect the rapid DC charging speed. It only affects the level 2 charging speed, where the NACS single phase charging loses out to 3 phase CCS at 7kW vs 11kW. However, provided you can charge where you park, with both connectors charging typically takes the driver a few seconds vs a few minutes for gassing up.

While NACS is slower for street side charging it would allow the charging post to be sightly smaller and therefore more discrete in appearance.

What is

article is stupid

[redback]

This article is wrong. It says that NACS is becoming the standard in Europe. THIS IS ENTIRELY FALSE. This change is only happening in the US. Everyone INCLUDING TESLA uses CCS2 in the EU.

Re:

[whoever57]

It says that NACS is becoming the standard in Europe.

I don't think Teslas in Europe ever had NACS connectors. Wasn't it Mennekes before CCS2?

Re:article is stupid

[_merlin]

There's a helpful infographic with photos of the charging connectors on Tesla cars in major markets here [teslamotorsclub.com]. I believe they use the proprietary Tesla connector in Japan and Korea, too.

Re:

[_merlin]

I don't think Teslas in Europe ever had NACS connectors. Wasn't it Mennekes before CCS2?

To answer this directly, it was a proprietary connector that would accept a Mennekes plug for 1-phase or 3-phase AC charging, but could also accept a specially keyed plug for DC charging that would not mate with a standard Mennekes connector on a car. Older Tesla charging stations used this plug, while newer Tesla charging stations only have a CCS combo type 2 connector, requiring drivers of older Tesla vehicles to use

You're reading it wrong

[Firethorn]

Unless they updated the article, the article isn't wrong, it's just unclear. Mercedes-Benz IS a german automaker, true/false? They're adopting NACS in a market, true/false? Etc...

All that's missing is "in the USA", and I think that they just missed that somebody might think it applied to Europe.

FTA -

Unlike in Europe, Tesla Superchargers in the US use a proprietary connector — this was Tesla’s “competitive moat,” the thing that initially offered protection from other automakers. The NACS connector is smaller than CCS connectors, making it less likely to fail. In order to allow non-Tesla vehicles to access the chargers, the company installed a device called the “Magic Dock” in which a CCS adapter is applied to the connector.

Well, it is wrong in that the connector is no longer proprietary, and technically hasn't been for a while. That the car companies are negotiating with Tesla before adopting says that Tesla's "open sourcing"

Re:

[thegarbz]

It says that NACS is becoming the standard in Europe.

Where does it say this? Like quote me the exact line. I think you have a strange interpretation. Just because Mercedes is German doesn't mean that this article impacts Europe in any way. In fact the only mention of Europe points out that Tesla chargers in Europe don't have the NACS connector.

Re:

[redback]

start of the 3rd paragraph

"The company joins Ford, GM, Volvo, Polestar, and Rivian in adopting Tesla’s connector, which is rapidly becoming the de facto charging standard in North America and Europe. "

Re:

[ukoda]

Correct, same here in New Zealand. All Tesla's sold by Tesla here have the same CCS2 as Europe and all Tesla superchargers are CCS2.

People go on about the size but news flash, the non-USA Teslas have the same size charging port flap. The AC only CCS connector used at home is not much bigger than the NACS connector.

For some here changing from CCS to NACS would reduce the maximum charge rate from 11kW to 7kW as NACS is only single phase whereas CCS supports 3 phase giving a higher home charge rate for

Number 927

[quenda]

Number 927!
(Like the joke-tellers convention. I won't post the link, as you all know it. :-)

New Plug, Same Charger

[theweatherelectric]

The German automaker is the latest to adopt Tesla’s North American Charging Standard, bringing Elon Musk’s company one step closer to total charging dominance.

This is a pathetically narrow perspective. It's not a "charging standard", it's a plug on the end of a cable. That "total charging dominance" doesn't look so amazing when the plug will be used in three countries at best. And it's even funnier when most of the cars Tesla sells don't use the Tesla plug [cnn.com].

The reality is that all chargers in North America will be CCS chargers with Tesla's plug on the end. That's how they will work with all brands. The Combined Charging System [wikipedia.org] is what has won out in North America.

But if you want to see the world's best EV chargers deployed in the field, go to Europe. Europe does EV infrastructure better.

Re:

[whoever57]

It's not a "charging standard", it's a plug on the end of a cable.

It's a lot more than that. It's the protocols used to communicate between the car and the charging infrastructure for things like billing, AC/DC setup, etc..

So, yes, it is a charging standard.

Re:

[theweatherelectric]

It's the protocols used to communicate between the car and the charging infrastructure for things like billing, AC/DC setup, etc..

All of which will be the Combined Charging System [wikipedia.org] with Tesla's plug on the end.

You believe you're disagreeing with me but in reality you're agreeing with me.

Re:

[_merlin]

Tesla still hasn't opened their proprietary charging system to competitors. It will only be possible to charge these cars on third-generation Tesla "superchargers" that support CCS protocols. "NACS" as they're calling it is just CCS with Tesla's connectors rather than the "type 1" or "type 2" frankenconnectors. The only change the other manufacturers are making is to change the socket on the car.

Re:

[thegarbz]

It's the protocols used to communicate between the car and the charging infrastructure

Tesla uses CCS for that communication. It's why you can switch between Tesla chargers and non Tesla chargers with Tesla cars and non-Tesla cars with nothing more than a dumb adapter.

Re: New Plug, Same Charger

[e3m4n]

How small is the adapter? Are we talking a 5ft cable or just something the size of a fist? If its the latter it seems like a retrofit would be possible should we officially decide on a real SAE standard and not a gentlemen agreement. Give it its own new SAE name, and refit the older cars with new charging ports. Im sure it isnt, but should be, as simple as swapping out a video card. Typically automakers would rather sell you a new car and fill landfills with cars that could otherwise stay on the roads. Cub

Re:

[dgatwood]

How small is the adapter? Are we talking a 5ft cable or just something the size of a fist?

Closer to the latter than the former. CCS connectors are huge, so it's probably more like four to six fists.

Re:

[theweatherelectric]

How small is the adapter?

An example CCS adapter looks this big [youtube.com].

Re:

[e3m4n]

it doesnt seem as huge as they were making it out to be. I was imagining connectors the size of Doc Brown's cabling in Back To The Future. You should see the JP5 connectors on an aircraft carrier to fuel the planes :-), I think they use something similar in Formula-1 racers for faster fills.

Re:

[whoever57]

Tesla uses CCS for that communication. It's why you can switch between Tesla chargers and non Tesla chargers with Tesla cars and non-Tesla cars with nothing more than a dumb adapter.

Except, that's not true. CCS adapters don't work on older Teslas without a retrofit of the charge port.
https://www.notateslaapp.com/n... [notateslaapp.com]

Re:

[theweatherelectric]

So.. it is true, just not if you're stuck with an old Tesla.

Re:

[bgarcia]

It's a lot more than that. It's the protocols used to communicate between the car and the charging infrastructure for things like billing, AC/DC setup, etc.

While Tesla does have its own protocols that are used when charging Tesla vehicles, that is not what has been standardized here. They've only opened up the physical plug.

Tesla Superchargers are capable of talking CCS. This is how the Superchargers with MagicDock are able to charge non-Tesla vehicles. This is also how Superchargers in Europe are able

Re:

[crow]

While technically true, from a consumer standpoint, two things are clear:
  * Tesla Superchargers will be available to everyone
  * All cars will use the same connector

On the first point, it's not really true, as half the chargers are older ones that aren't compatible, but Tesla will either upgrade them or install newer ones nearby (which is what they're mostly doing now).

Re:

[dgatwood]

On the first point, it's not really true, as half the chargers are older ones that aren't compatible

By head count, I think there are only about 12,000 [tesla.com] V2 charging stations worldwide, out of about 45,000. So it's more like a quarter of the stalls.

Re:

[_merlin]

The V2 charging stations in the EU have already been retrofitted to support CCS anyway, so the actual number that don't support CCS is lower than that. But the distribution could be uneven - if most of those 12,000 V2 stations were in the US, they could have just added a lot of V3 stations outside the US.

The CCS connector

[MpVpRb]

... is gigantic and unwieldy, especially for smaller people
It reeks of design by committee

Re:

[serviscope_minor]

... is gigantic and unwieldy, especially for smaller people
It reeks of design by committee

Better design by committee than design by narrow interests.

The CCS connector supports higher power DC fast charging (400kW (700 demonstrated) vs 250kW (615 claimed but never seen)) and much MUCH faster AC charging (43kW max vs 11kW).

So yes, the Tesla plug is a bit smaller, but it's also much less capable. You also only need the full CCS plug if you want to fast charge. Most of the time people only use the upper part.

Re: The CCS connector

[e3m4n]

Can you explain that last paragraph to someone who isnt able to visualize what youre talking about?

Re:

[redback]

have a look at this image. https://thedriven.io/wp-conten... [thedriven.io]

the AC charging part is the top.

DC charging uses the comms pins from the AC connector and adds 2 big connectors for DC power

Re:

[serviscope_minor]

Sure. I've been weirdly down voted for stating an objective fact but here goes...

The connector is basically two stacked vertically. the medium power one with 7 pins: 2 data, 1 earth and 3 AC, one neutral or 4DC pubs and below an optional 2 very large DC pins. For most charging, under 70me or so, you use the 7 pin connector. For really fast charging, you use the additional 2 big DC pins.

Most people most of the time charge off AC, where the relatively small 7 pin connector does the job fine. Look up some pic

Re:

[Rei]

Given that the Tesla connector is smaller than the upper part as well, and does the job of both the upper and lower part, and does so at higher max powers, as well as being lighter, easier to insert, and not having a braindead locking mechanism design, exactly what is your argument?

Re:

[theweatherelectric]

and does so at higher max powers

It doesn't. The current revision of the CCS plugs and inlets rates them for 1,500 volts and 800 amps [wikipedia.org] for DC charging, a maximum 1.2 megawatts.

400 kW CCS chargers [wikipedia.org] are already deployed by charging networks. Tesla's fastest chargers are 250 kW.

as well as being lighter

The weight is less to do with the plug and more to do with the cable. Longer, thicker cables weigh more. To get high power charging with lighter cables the two choices are to run them at higher current than they're rated for or to use liquid cooled cabling.

Re:

[serviscope_minor]

How did you figure that? CCS supports AC charging at up to 43 kW and has deployed 400kW DC chargers, with working demos of 700kW. That's higher than Tesla on all counts.

Re:

[Rei]

Tesla NACS supports up to 1 MW.

In contrast...

[VeryFluffyBunny]

...Mercedes co-developed, backed, & adopted the EU Type 2 EV charging specification over a decade ago, which has since also been adopted by other countries around the world. C'mon 'Murica, keep up!