Volkswagen To Stop Selling Combustion Vehicles In Norway From 2024 (electrive.com) 82
The Norwegian Volkswagen importer Moller Mobility Group has confirmed that it will stop selling combustion vehicles in Norway from 2024. Electricdrive.com reports: The farewell to the combustion engine in Norway is only logical: already today, e-cars regularly account for more than 80 percent of new registrations in the Scandinavian country, and the government wants them to reach a full 100 per cent by 2025. "It may seem strange to celebrate the milestone by removing model icons from our portfolio, but this has been an ambitious and important initiative over time," says Ulf Tore Hekneby, managing director of Volkswagen importer Harald A. Moller AS. "The goal has been to drive change that we believe is of critical importance."
Harald A. Moller AS has been importing Volkswagens to Norway since 1948. According to the company, around 1.1 million VWs have been sold in the Scandinavian country during these 75 years. This includes a total of 102,000 electric cars in the past ten years. The sale of the last Golf in Norway this December marks the end of an era, but also the beginning of a new one, Hekneby emphasised. "We encourage everyone to consider an electric car in their next car purchase. Switching to an electric car is a crucial step in reducing an individual's carbon footprint and an important overall contribution to combating climate change," he said. The top-selling car in the country is the Tesla Model Y, "dominating more than 20% of the market share with 15,452 units sold in the first half of this year," reports Electrek. "Almost one in four new passenger car registrations so far this year was Tesla Model Y."
Harald A. Moller AS has been importing Volkswagens to Norway since 1948. According to the company, around 1.1 million VWs have been sold in the Scandinavian country during these 75 years. This includes a total of 102,000 electric cars in the past ten years. The sale of the last Golf in Norway this December marks the end of an era, but also the beginning of a new one, Hekneby emphasised. "We encourage everyone to consider an electric car in their next car purchase. Switching to an electric car is a crucial step in reducing an individual's carbon footprint and an important overall contribution to combating climate change," he said. The top-selling car in the country is the Tesla Model Y, "dominating more than 20% of the market share with 15,452 units sold in the first half of this year," reports Electrek. "Almost one in four new passenger car registrations so far this year was Tesla Model Y."
An excellent testing ground.. (Score:5, Interesting)
...for EV truth and fact to emerge regarding car fires, accidents, insurance and repair costs, autonomous claims and safety ratings.
Perhaps we might be able to collect unfucked statistics to formulate an actual cost, rather than allow competitive collusion to distort and short for profit.
(Don't own an EV. Not a cent of Elon investments.)
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"I want to know the stats for bloody noses when there are only a limited number of EV chargers,"
Most Nordic countries had millions of parking spaces for decades now, with an electric outlet to feed your oil heater in your ICE car, so that it would start at -30 degrees and reduce motor damage, most of them got converted to loading stations for e-cars.
Re: An excellent testing ground.. (Score:2)
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Re:An excellent testing ground.. (Score:5, Interesting)
Car fires are much less
Accidents are about the same, drivers are still drivers
Insurance is less
Most Repairs are less due to less moving parts
- autonomous is a separate issue - most EV's don't have it, many non-EV's have
Safety is about the same
Tesla is not the only player in the market by a long way, and WV is only slightly behind them in Norway
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There are some promising technologies like the recent demo of the injection of the cooled brine, and we'll probably need to mandate a standardized water input valve for firefighters that goes straight into the battery similar to what mining equipment has.
Here [youtube.com] is some information about it. There is also a picture of the water input on a mining equipment later on in the video.
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We don't actually have that many EVs. Mainly due to import rules and massive tax on new cars. Ours is one of the older car fleets in more developed parts of EU in part because of it. It's so bad that we had a recent case of automotive dealers just straight up bypassing distribution deals and importing "slightly used" EVs directly from Sweden, and betting they can arrange support either directly on their own dealership without manufacturer's assistance, or by sending them back to Sweden for repairs.
And we al
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Obviously. Not many cars in garages around here in the first plac, and. Tesla owners who are the most prevalent keep them overwhelmingly outdoors. Not going to mind read to say how much that is about the fire risk.
They do burn in underground garages in malls and such though. Recent one big enough to hit news cycle was a few months ago. That's when we had a short burst of news where fire chief in the area explained that they couldn't put it out and had to control the fire for many hours, and then get a speci
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I see we're going straight into gaslighting. Nice. Remember boys, Fremantle Highway is completely fine. Everything else is misinformation, fake news and probably Jewish propaganda.
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Have you tried attaching the rest of the chain and an anchor to that link yet? It may work!
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Safety is about the same
That is not clear. By all accounts EVs have a significant lower centre of gravity due to the added mass of the batteries low in the bottom of the chassis. The odds of rolling the car are significantly lower, and Tesla's registered results of various regulatory bodies show an incredibly good safety results compared to the competition for a similar sized car.
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...for EV truth and fact to emerge regarding car fires, accidents, insurance and repair costs, autonomous claims and safety ratings.
Perhaps we might be able to collect unfucked statistics to formulate an actual cost, rather than allow competitive collusion to distort and short for profit.
(Don't own an EV. Not a cent of Elon investments.)
Just look at the UK. Insurance costs are killing EV owners (who previously loved to crow about how "cheap" their EV was).
Granted its going to take a few years to determine the long term fire risks, but I suspect insurance costs will kill them before then.
An insurance company in the UK is required to guarantee that any car they return to the road is safe. The problem the battery packs, as it's a known issue that damaged lithium batteries are a fire hazard. Standard procedure with electronics in cars is
Let's back out some math here (Score:2)
If 15k model Ys were sold, and that's 20% of vehicle sales, then there are 75k vehicle sales per year.
In the US, there are roughly 15m sales per year, for about 200m registered cars, for an average life of about 15 years.
Norway has about 1/70th the population of the US, but about 1/200 the annual sales. That's a factor of 3.
So either they drive their cars into the ground (average vehicle life well over 30 years), or they all live nose-to-tail in Oslo and don't drive at all.
Or they ride polar bears to work.
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Tesla sold 15k cars in half a year, so Norwegians buy a third fewer cars per capita-year than Americans. And they ride reindeer, not polar bears. Mostly.
Re:Let's back out some math here (Score:5, Informative)
they all live nose-to-tail in Oslo
Population density in Oslo in 2016 was 3,700 pop/sq. mi. That puts it around Richmond, Virginia metro (that's not including the airport and surrounding area) density. So, no hardly the nose-to-tail.
and don't drive at all
It's quite snowy and roadways are prone to blockage in a lot of the rural areas. Additionally, many of the unique geographic elements of the country make things like boat and train a more attractive and cost-effective means of transport. Road transport isn't as popular there as it is in the US and highways are not as expansive as they are here in the US. This is why this claim by VW is pretty easy to believe. Norway has about 5m registered cars for the entire country and a good part of the country (in terms of land) is just not geared for road travel. Whereas a good part of the country (in terms of people) are well served by public transit.
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Re:Let's back out some math here (Score:5, Insightful)
So either they drive their cars into the ground
The conclusion when comparing any country to the USA isn't that the country drives its cars into the ground, it's that the USA has a hugely fucking larger number of vehicles per capita because of a general car addiction (FREEDOM!) and 100 years of government policy designing cities that absolutely essentially require owning and driving a car every day.
I live in a city in Europe. I drove 450km last year. In the future look a bit deeper than just the population.
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Not that there's anything wrong with that.....
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Comparing any country to the USA is bound to be a poor comparison. The US is just plain weird. A lot of that cames from long periods of time being isolationist and distrustful of any foreign ideas. It is almost intentional that the US does not resemble other countries. Where there is similarity it is usually because USA exports ideas and media rather than importing.
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Comparing any country to the USA is bound to be a poor comparison.
No you can most definitely compare weird and non-weird countries. That's how we know they are weird. The point is that you need to compare using the correct metrics so you don't end up coming up with an incorrect conclusion.
In this case a metric like vehicle miles driven per capita would show that people in Norway aren't "driving their vehicles into the ground", just that they aren't driving them as much and as such hold on to them in perfectly working condition longer.
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It's not just that. As I noted above, Norway is basically perfect geographic location for EVs in terms of power generation. Almost all of their power comes from hydro, which is near instantly adjustable. Their grid can take the intermittency from mass charging events easily. It's why their hydro is what keeps nearby Denmark's wind heavy grid up when it's not windy, and it still has capacity to spare to sell to others.
And yes, it is very heavily urbanized and a lot of intercity travel happens by train, not b
Stop selling?? (Score:2, Insightful)
This announcement just means they already "stopped selling". Involuntarily.
Now they're trying to spin it into some sort of planet-saving thing to save face.
Massive taxes and subsidization (Score:2)
I think that the reason is very simple: Norway is massively taxing combustion engines while subsidizing EVs.
The resulting massive price difference likely means that they can't sell IC vehicles at a high enough price in enough quantities to justify the expense of importing them into the country.
Consider dealer payments, advertising campaigns, translating model lines, regulatory approval, etc...
Re:Massive taxes and subsidization (Score:5, Interesting)
Why is Norway the leading country for electric cars? EV have received various subsidies:
1. No VAT and lower taxes for EV.
2. Until 2008 one could drive in the bus lane with a EV.
3. No toll for EV in certain areas until 2019, for example when commuting from suburbs to Oslo.
4. Free parking for EV i Oslo until 2020.
And one can add that the government has invested heavily in charging infrastructure.
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True, but we can still drive in the bus lane [elbil.no]. Tolls have been re-introduced, but are typically lower for EVs than ICEs (usually half, which used to be the legally mandated maximum - now it's 70% [elbil.no]).
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Re: Massive taxes and subsidization (Score:2)
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They have stopped selling cars nobody want's , they are still selling plenty of cars people do
They are number #2 in Norway behind Tesla by a small margin
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Norway has been mostly buying EVs for a while now anyway. I bet they don't sell a lot of fossils over there anyway, so it's probably not worth maintaining all the support infrastructure like servicing and training.
This is a good start (Score:2)
1)Norwayâ(TM)s government will decide to stop all imports of *ICE road-based vehicles at end of 2024. IOW, the citizens will still own their current H/LICE vehicles and can sell them to each other BUT no vehicle can be brought in newer than 2025.
2) Californiaâ(TM)s newsome will grow a pair and announce that they will do the same but starting sometime in 2026-2030.
The above would force all LICE makers off road-based *ICE.
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H/LICE vehicles
Huh? I assume "ICE" stands for "internal combustion engine" but what does "H/L" mean?
CaliforniaÃ(TM)s newsome will grow a pair and announce that they will do the same but starting sometime in 2026-2030.
There's already all kinds of demand for BEVs so added incentives in places like California isn't likely to incentivize production to increase any faster. There's all kinds of bottlenecks that put limits on increasing BEV production. There's problems getting raw materials like lithium, cobalt, and rare earth metals, problems that aren't likely to be resolved for years because it can take a decade to open up new mines and
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HICE => Hybrid ICE (these are NOT EVs).
There's already all kinds of demand for BEVs so added incentives in places like California isn't likely to incentivize production to increase any faster. There's all kinds of bottlenecks that put limits on increasing BEV production. There's problems getting raw materials like lithium, cobalt, and rare earth metals, problems that aren't likely to be resolved for years because it can take a decade to open up new mines and refineries. There's problems getting many commodities like microchips, copper wire, and so much else because of a series of events like COVID-19, trade wars, and union strikes, any resolutions to these shortages means the accumulated deficit needs to be filled in before any growth can happen. I could list more things that could hold up BEV production.
I am not suggesting incentives. I am saying that the time for incentives should be gone and instead, CA is large enough and important enough that if THEY were to stop new road-based H/LICE from being imported into the state, then it would force western LICE makers to move MUCH FASTER.
And no, there are no real bottlenecks on production, other than LICE makers purposely going slow. Covid was one, but strikes are hitting a few companies which ar
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LICE => Legacy ICE
HICE => Hybrid ICE (these are NOT EVs).
Who uses those acronyms? In what dictionary can I find these acronyms defined as you did?
I did some searching of the web on where else these might be used and found nothing about "LICE" but mentions of a certain kind of parasitic insect, and "HICE" gives me "hydrogen internal combustion engine". What you call a "HICE" is absolutely an EV, it is a vehicle with the ability to propel itself by electric power. It meets the generally recognized definition of an EV in spite of your protestations to the contrar
Hopefully, others join in (Score:3)
They are ready (Score:5, Informative)
Re: They are ready (Score:1)
Re: They are ready (Score:2)
Fuel shortages to come (Score:5, Informative)
With companies stopping selling ICE vehicles, and with an annual replacement rate of around 10%, it wonâ(TM)t be long before ICE vehicle owners start struggling to find fuel. Just this year Norway has seen a 9% decline in fossil fuel sales compared with last year and a number of sites are removing fossil fuel pumps and replacing them with fast chargers.
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Not shortages, just a lack of availability every 15km. A fuel shortage would mean a place that provides it normally can't provide it, not that there's a reduction in places providing it. It's a problem resolved by carrying a jerry can, or if you are really dependent on your ICE vehicle retrofitting a second fuel tank (which is common in countries where there isn't a fuel station every few minutes in your trip).
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Re:Hyundai Kona N (Score:5, Insightful)
Meanwhile, don't worry anyone, there's absolutely no reason to be worried that the ten warmest years on record all happened in the last 13 years. No reason to be worried that ocean acidification (which is an fundamental, direct consequence of CO2 emissions - there is zero margin to "dispute" it) is steadily creeping towards a "collapse the oceanic food chain" point. No reason to worry about accelerating clathrate decomposition, which in no way threatens to initiate a positive feedback loop. No reason to worry about the increasing slowdown of the AMOC, whose shutdown would render 2/3 of Europe virtually uninhabitable. No need to worry about heat events over Indian ocean coastal regions which are beginning to approach the limit of human survivability.
No, it's all just "alarmism." Keep calm and maintain consumption. Perpetual exponential economic growth is possible and real, not an insane delusion. Buy. Work. Produce.
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well, can you agree at least that inefficient petrol guzzing ICE vehicles should drastically decline in number and instead prefer fuel efficient ICE? In America the answer seems to be "no". People buy the biggest ass car they get until there's a spike in gas prices; but as soon as the price drops it's back to trucks, SUVs, and sports cars.If you're not getting 40+ MPG on the highway then it's time to get a better car. Sure, if you have an actual business, the truck is good, however a V8 engine for a comm
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It's still just convenience. Do you haul enough concrete blocks that you're spending an extra $5000 a year to do so? Why not rent a truck?
When I was a kid (oh no, here we go) we did that stuff with a fuel efficient Datsun pickup. We'd use it to get a full load of wood. These days you can't get a new pickup that small. A "compact truck" like a Chevy Colorado is massive in comparison to pickups. America has gone big, it's caught a virus from Texas and small is out. Also small gets laughed at, people get
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Subsidising (Score:3)
The thing is that Norway is subsidising electric vehicles.
It can do so because it is rich on the incomes from its oil industry.
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That doesn't explain the other counties adopting EV's en mass - Iceland, Sweden, Netherlands ..... and China
Re: Subsidising (Score:2)
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(Yes I know an army typically brings their own but that's for a limited time only.)
Re:Not great for wartime (Score:4, Insightful)
There's always a way, like having a petrolbased generator as a backup. And in wartime getting petrol won't be easy too. But you can charge your car using solarpanels, or windmil and if you're lucky to live near a river you can use hydrogenerators (which is how a big chunk of Norway's electricity is generated).
The advantage of EV in wartime is that they are also much more silent.
oil (Score:2)
Combustion Vehicles? (Score:2)
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Pinto lovers?
bizarrely, some folks now find them (and the bobcat) collectible.
I saw one go for something like $35k at an auction!
The writer probably thought "Pinto". (Score:2)
Norway punching down. (Score:2)
Norway is a great example of Leftist hypocrisy: while propping up their economy by selling North Sea oil and gas to other nations, they ban ICE cars in their own country. If every other country in the EU followed suit, Norwegians wouldn't be able to afford electric cars. They would, however, still have cheap oil and gas.
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Jealous, some?
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big deal (Score:2)
population of norway: 5 million.
reliability of VW cars: 0.005.