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Transportation

VW and Renault End Talks To Develop Affordable EV (reuters.com) 35

Posted by msmash from the tough-luck dept.
Volkswagen has walked away from talks with Renault to jointly develop an affordable electric version of the Twingo car, Reuters reported Friday, citing sources familiar with the situation, in a setback for the EU carmakers' efforts to fend off Chinese rivals. From the report: The collapse of negotiations could mean the German carmaker may have to go it alone in developing its own affordable electric vehicle (EV). Renault will continue designing its electric Twingo, scheduled to hit the market in 2026. Both had hoped that sharing the work would cut costs that represent a key hurdle for European carmakers in the face of cheaper cars from China.

Volkswagen broke off discussions mainly because Renault had wanted to build the car in one of its plants at a time when VW is seeking to fully utilise its European production network, one of the sources said.
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VW and Renault End Talks To Develop Affordable EV More

VW and Renault End Talks To Develop Affordable EV

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  • Hilarious Europe, where people buy cars called "Twingo."

    • Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)

      by VeryFluffyBunny ( 5037285 )
      What about 'Muricans buying "trucks" called... whatsisname? Ah, yes. "Dodgy" or something like that. ...or what about naming a car after a notorious security agency, the Chevy "SS." & Ford "Probe" seriously?

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by shmlco ( 594907 )

        Or the Dodge RAM. Which I frequently need to do because their drivers seem intent on treating its name as operating instructions...

        • My neighbor used to own a humvee. I lived in a historical city with pretty narrow roads back in that time. You always noticed when his wife took it out for shopping. Bumping on the curbs, nervous jerks at the steering wheel when she had to pass another car. It was sad but funny.
          • Oh, you'd love to have seen former boxer Chris Eubanks driving his American truck -- you know, the type that haul trailers around on big fat 'Murican roads -- down the south lanes of Brighton (think sea side fishing village that pre-dates cars by centuries street layout) & getting stuck. I've no idea how they managed to get it out. Maybe cut the thing up & remove it piece by piece? Anyway, he was famous for not being the sharpest tool in the box.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by hawk ( 1151 )

        > Ford "Probe"

        c'mon, now.

        Those didn't sell domestically.

        We exported them all to the Lizard People, of course.

        (but the *real* oddity of that vehicle was that they somehow thought they were developing the new Mustang. After the previews got laughed off the stage, it was repurposed).

        hawk

    • Both companies will re-brand a lesser-known Chinese model, similar to low-end GM owned Daewoo being branded Chevy in USA (buy Murican!).

      Remember the Honda-Rover tie-up?

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        Renault has a long history of making very low cost cars, and actually selling them. Including EVs. That's likely why VW went to them.

        • Renault owns Dacia which has the cheapest EV right now, the Srping. Based on some upgraded Chinese car, I think.

          VW used to make the e-Up! which they seem to have killed off for some reason. They should just make those again.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Hilarious Europe, where people buy cars called "Twingo."

      This from the USA, the country that brought us such automotive classics as the Gaylord Gladiator, Dodge Dart Swinger, Studebaker Dictator and Ford Probe.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by mjwx ( 966435 )

      Hilarious Europe, where people buy cars called "Twingo."

      I don't think Americans can talk when you can use the name "Randy Bottom" entirely without irony.

      However the Renault have form with oddly named cars, the predecessor to the Twingo was called the Twizzy.

      The Japanese take the cake though, Pajero (a Nissan 4x4) means "wanker" in Spanish though it was called the Montaro in Europe and the Americas and MR2 (Toyota Roadster) comes out as "shit 2" in French (merde duex).

      • MR2 sounds like Merdeux meaning shitty, or vulgar for kids. The first gen Twingo was released in the early 90's, way before the Twizzy, but was obviously ICE. Current gen has an electric version, next gen will be full electric like most of the range at Renault in the coming years
  • VW...think about doing something with your heritage...

    How about an electric Karmann Ghia?

    Or resurrect the old VW "Thing"...?

    I know the bug seems obvious....but I was thinking right now in the EV market...there's nothing but fscking "family trucksters"....4+ seaters that make sense for a family.

    Put out at least ONE EV that is fun...a 2 seater sports car, that is affordable.

    I still can't figure out why Tesla won't put out the roadster again....

    But really if VW could do something on the Karmann idea..

    • TBH I'd be happy if they brought back the classic bug with the alcohol engines that were made until 2000-ish in S. America

      But if you really want an electric Karmann Ghia (or VW bug, bus, thing, Porsche 356, 912, 914 or early enough 911) then you just need a donor vehicle and throw $60k at Z-Electric. They'll get a Tesla, rip out battery system and drive train and do a one-off install for you.

    • I still can't figure out why Tesla won't put out the roadster again....

      As I understand things, it's because the advertised specs are a complete fantasy, e.g., the weight of the battery alone required to achieve the advertised range would weigh as much as an SUV.

      • I imagine he was talking about the original roadster with the chassis done by lotus. For once he has a point.

        That car sold like hotcakes and there is probably enough demand to do another run.

        • Recently the CFO of a greenfield EV manufacturer said that a new model only needs around 6000 sales to be in the black. Presumably a lot more for a traditional car company.

        • I imagine he was talking about the original roadster with the chassis done by lotus.

          Yup...that's the one!!

  • France wants everything to be done in France. And Renault wanted to convert a SINGLE facility over to electric? That’s ok in the pilot stage, but EVs are rapidly getting to the point where you need to go big or go home.

  • The Twingo is presumably just the R5 E-Tech with different bodywork and a smaller LFP battery. Whatever it is, it won't be much different next year if it has to go into mass production then, VW could not usefully contribute if they joined now.

    The negotiation was probably for VW to produce the Renault/Ampere platform in license for their own cars, with some face saving talk of joint development tacked on.

    • Make a standard well designed battery spec. open it. Then, have China make them like crazy... maybe attempt to make quality ones yourself to compete as the premium reliable brand. If you can.

      Go with 48V where you can and make it electrically safe as possible so everybody doesn't fear the things.

      This will allow used, repair, and create an aftermarket ... a market solving the most difficult aspects of EVs: heavily proprietary with huge lock-in and the fear of electricity.

      An affordable car is a USED car. perio

  • This is basically the same arrangement that Renault had with Smart from like 2014-2020, until Smart partnered with Geely. Smart 453s were built at Renault factories, sharing parts with the Twingo, with Smart's badge and chassis.

    I didn't realize Renault started looking for a new partner to continue this. Are they just trying all of the German car companies? Are we going to get tiny two-seater BMWs next? Electric Isetta reboot?
  • It's fucking VW and Renault.

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