Build Your Own 10Mbps Microwave Data Link 151
Rob writes: "I found this site called The Microwave Data Link Project where a guy is attempting to link 2 LANs (2 miles apart) by a 10Mbps Microwave Data Link. I've seen the plans for these links, but never wanted to learn all that amateur radio stuff, but this guy is going to lead people step by step how to build it, including how to get your FCC License, and more. Should be interesting to follow the progress!"
it's illegal (Score:1)
-Craig
KC5UMA
Another one to look at... (Score:2)
http://www.technocrat.net/937014982/index_html
--Kevin
=-=-=
Re:Not bad... (Score:1)
Of course, you have the commercial and no-encryption rules to contend with as well.
Re:Cheap, Short Range Wireless Ethernet (Score:1)
I was thinking of that too, but I was just going to stick the RJ-45 on the back bumper. Little flip-open connector covers specifically designed for vehicle use are readily available for hiding trailer harness wires.
OTOH, your later reply about driving in and having the car pop up onto the home LAN is really cool.
But what about issues of powering it? You're not going to want to leave the computer on all the time because your car battery won't live long (days, probably, and car batteries aren't meant for deep discharge cycles); wake-on-LAN features might work. But, at least if it's wired, you can make your own little custom plug including network connection and a separate power circuit to run the computer.
Re:Equivalent License in Canada (Score:1)
Some moderators are power freaks.
`k
Re:Kudos to the ISP hosting this site (Score:1)
A hypocrat would therefore be a person in a position of power in a hypocritial organization. Like a high-level Microsoft manager.
Re:Cheap, Short Range Wireless Ethernet (Score:1)
I use them to surf on my laptop while downstairs and away from my DSL connected upstairs bedroom computer. They still worked when I took my laptop out to my car (about 150') to test range (and to start planning to do pretty much what you have in mind, a car mp3 player with connectivity so I don't have to remove the laptop to refresh the music).
They even came with a 2 user licence for wingate, which my be helpfull if your linux box (like mine) doesn't have any free isa slots but your winblows gamer box does.
Email me if you need more info.
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Re:How secure? (Score:2)
You are NOT allowed to encrypt any of your data, unless you are controlling a space based transmitter (that is, a satellite).
If you are needing to encrypt, try something like the Apple Airport thingy.
Home made microwave links... (Score:3)
At the time, the equipment was expensive, but still financially viable over a year or two compared to dedicated T1 lines. I believe in 1997 I was getting quotes of around $10,000 for a single 2 mbps link (anyone, which is it, Mbps or mbps?). The price of the link did not increase significantly as the speed went up. For instance, I belive it was only a couple of grand more for the 10 mbps link. The large initial cost was for the antenna systems and the radios. For instance, 10 mbps data and 2 mbps data traveled over the same frequency, but the 10 mbps equipment had tighter tolerences and was slightly more expensive.
Anyhow, the biggest problem with a system like this is security. To really secure a link like this, one will need a spread spectrum modem. Those aren't cheap. Spread spectrum "spreads" a data signal out over a wide band of frequency. If done correctly, the signal is difficult to detect apart from normal background noise. Also, to eavesdrop on the signal, one would need the right codes that the modem uses to spread the signal out and then put it back together.
For instance, with spread spectrum, one could transmit two different signals on (nearly) the same frequency, but because 2 different codes are used to split up the signals, they could be decoded at the distant end without interfering with each other.
Other advantages to spread spectrum include resistance to jamming and low succeptibility to background noise. One would be less likely to lose a signal due to rain or snow or some jerk with a 300 watt CB radio in his car.
I believe this microwave project will meet with success, but it won't be anywhere near what I would call reliable enough to use in a business environment.
Obsolete project... (Score:1)
Re:I do it all the time - My cost (Score:4)
2 lucent wavelan cards: $150 ea
2 24db grid dish antennas: $150ea
2 40' cables $50ea.
Total $700
I could save money here on the antenna's, get a couple 10dbi antenna's for $70ea, and still get 10 miles.
Figure the time going into making the stuff, and licensing (this is unlicensed stuff I use), the excellent software, stability, etc, not to mention the range and that $200 difference goes away really fast. Not to mention we'll have to see if he make it at $500.
Amateur Radio *NOT* for commercial use! (Score:4)
Here's an excerpt of the relevant federal regulation:
(a) No amateur station shall transmit:
(1) Communications specifically prohibited elsewhere in this Part;
(2) Communications for hire or for material compensation, direct or indirect, paid or promised, except as otherwise provided in these rules;
(3) Communications in which the station licensee or control operator has a pecuniary interest, including communications on behalf of an employer. Amateur operators may, however, notify other amateur operators of the availability for sale or trade of apparatus normally used in an amateur station, provided that such activity is not conducted on a regular basis;
(4) Music using a phone emission except as specifically provided elsewhere in this Section; communications intended to facilitate a criminal act; messages in codes or ciphers intended to obscure the meaning thereof, except as otherwise provided herein; obscene or indecent words or language; or false or deceptive messages, signals or identification;
(5) Communications, on a regular basis, which could reasonably be furnished alternatively through other radio services.
The full regulation can be found here. [arrl.org]
Chuck Milam, KF9FR
I've got it working 45km!!! (Score:1)
I was working for a school district in northern Canada and we got three towns connected via 10MBit wireless. The towns are 60km apart. We have one central mountain station to actually interconnect them. In a place where where you _can't_ get DSL, Cable, T1, etc., it works pretty damn good.
Already exists...with Linux drivers (Score:3)
Two I am familiar with are Breezecom [breezecom.com] and Aironet [aironet.com], just bought by Cisco. If you poke around, you'll find many of these products have Linux drivers [ucsc.edu].
Re:doesn't sound like he'll get real far (Score:2)
Yes, exactly. The low-cost Gunn-diode units being used couldn't be modulated much faster than about 2 Mbps.
Second, the statement about "not much operating at 2Mbps" as a reason for trying for 10Mbps makes it sound like he really doesn't understand the way asynchronous networks function. At least with tcp...
It has nothing to do with protocols. The problem is finding something that pumps data in a useful manner at 2 Mbps. A 10-Mbps Ethernet card can be had for next to nothing. But what card do you use if you need to slow down to 2 Mbps? Thus the desire to increase the project's speed to 10 Mbps.
Of course, as other people have pointed out, the legality of a 2Mbps HAM link, let alone 10Mbps, is quite suspect. Someone with access to recent FCC rulings should comment on it. A licensed amateur may design and build their own device to transmit legally in the HAM bands, and it seems from the rules most people know about that the 10ghz HAM band is limited to 56kbps.
Not so. On any frequency above 450 MHz, US hams can use any digital bandwidth that will fit inside the band. See the FCC Rules at 97.305(c) [arrl.org] (and 97.307(f)).
Re:Ham Radio use restrictions (Score:1)
Tristan
Call sign: KF6MUY
Re:Ham Radio use restrictions (Score:1)
what about cabs? Don't they use those radios all the time?
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Fun project (Score:1)
Off-topic, but WOW (Score:1)
Of course, that could be because all the AP's are too busy with first posts to bother reading.
How directed is a microwave signal (Score:1)
I'm sure there are lots of other applications around for connecting houses, stuff like that too.
Re:Ham Radio use restrictions (Score:1)
Spending the time to get a ham radio license has been very rewarding for me, especially HF contesting, which uses 2.4 KHz of bandwidth!
p.s. If I want encryption, I'll use my ISP which I pay for.
I do it all the time (Score:1)
Not much to learn, just a lot of climbing 200' towers.
Ummm (Score:1)
Convergence of technology (Score:1)
--
Wanna hook MAPI clients to your Tru64/AIX/Linux server?
such a ripoff (Score:1)
Equivalent License in Canada (Score:2)
Re:I do it all the time - My cost (Score:2)
73
KK5WA
Re:Drawbacks to Wireless (Score:1)
Easily expandable (Score:1)
Re:Wow! (Score:1)
T3's are (contrary to apparently popular belief) not 3 T1s, but actually 28 T1s, or 672 channels each running at 64Kbits. They are correspondingly a buttload more money. I can't find a price quoted *anywhere*, it appears to be one of those "call us" things
alt3r3go
Re:How secure? (Score:1)
Which brings up another issue -- what the hell is the point? Since the purpose is to connect two LANs, imagine you accidently fire up SSH to log into a machine on the other LAN. Three key strokes and you're a criminal. Or if you're sharing an internet connection your browser can (and probably will) get redirected to an SSL site. The idea is cool, but in the long run you're probably better off using equipment that isn't licensed under the amateur radio rules.
Re:Drawbacks to Wireless (Score:3)
Shorter wavelengths are better than longer for travelling through objects and over long distances (line of sight). Remember your 900Mhz cordless phone, now pushing up to the 2.4 Ghz range? The reason behind that is farther transmission with less interference.
As to the ISP you mentioned, did they use directional (parabolic) antennas? All microwave transmission is line of sight. You need really low frequencys, like AM to be able to go over the horizon. Unless of course, you've got a couple of thousand watts of transmitting power, and then you can do something called troposcatter. Ranges of over 100 miles are available in that situation.
Without anything blocking your view, you can easily get 30 miles by line of sight. Also consider all of the microwave links you will see the phone companies have connecting small villages and cities out in the boonies. They are much cheaper than stringing enough copper that far.
If you live in a downtown area, if you look to the tops of buildings, you'll see many antenna horns and dishes (look like dinner plates almost) littering the top of the skyline. All of those are high freq microwave links.
Ok, But Not If It May Fry An Owl Or Two. (Score:1)
[If you can not [geeklife.com] say it in 1 or 2 [geeklife.com] or 3, why say it at all?] [geeklife.com]
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Re:Don't try this at home (Score:1)
Using amateur radio for this application (Score:1)
1. You have to identify the stations at both ends of the link every 10 minutes, and at the end of the transmission (when you go off the air).
2. No profanity or other "obscene" things can go over the air. Since those "obscene" things would be encapsulated within TCP/IP, I'm not sure if this applies, but it may.
3. The operator of the link cannot profit financially from the operation of the link. In other words, it could be done for fun or to contact friends, (QUAKE DEATHMATCH!) but it could not be used to connect two offices of a business that employs the operator. FCC regulations are pretty hard and fast about this. It used to be that you could not do any business transactions on the radio, but this was recently amended to simply disallow profitmaking.
Rather than use amateur radio, I'd try the unlicensed 802.11B radio gear. I've successfully hooked up two offices with WaveLAN equipment for around $800, over a 2 mile path.
I'm the author of the original 10-mbps project... (Score:5)
Amusingly, I submitted the project page to Slashdot myself about a year ago, when I first got the link working. When the submission was rejected, I wrote to one of the well-known admins at Slashdot asking what I needed to do to make it
I just didn't think it was interesting enough.
Sorry.
--
| (admin name omitted) | Just want to be misunderstood,
| (admin name omitted) | I wanna be feared in my neighborhood.
| http://slashdot.org/ | Just want to be a moody man,
| codejockey*gangstero | say things that nobody can understand.
| flove*lovemachine*wr | --Pete Townshend, Misunderstood
Dejected, I was forced to admit that my news-for-nerds quotient just couldn't compete with the guy who built a PC case out of Zebrano wood, or whatever the story-of-the-day was at the time. Consequently, Rob gets major props from me for doing a better job writing up the submission than I did.
Now for the bad news: out of many thousands of hits my site's received over the past year, only one guy, an EE professor at a local university, has successfully duplicated my efforts. In my mind, that somewhat validates the unnamed Slashdot admin's decision not to publicize the project in the first place. People, this is not a project for beginners or casual electronics buffs! In the year since I finished the project, a couple of excellent alternative solutions for RF data links that make good use of off-the-shelf hardware and homemade antennas have come to light. For instance, there's a good page on the topic of modifying Proxim Symphony cards for long-range service at Low-Cost Wireless Network How-To [gbonline.com]. I would have to say that this is a better approach for 99% of the people who have looked at my microwave link page and thought about building it. Heck, in retrospect this is what I should have done, instead of putting in all that engineering time on a 100%-custom solution.
My own 10-megabit link has been running great since last June with only a couple of hours' downtime for maintenance and tweaks, and it's easily the most 'educational' project I've ever tackled. But I think it's important to temper peoples' expectations. If you are an experienced electronics hacker with access to a very well-equipped RF test bench or a university EE lab, and you just want to spend a lot of time and money building something something cool, then I highly recommend my microwave link project. If not, do yourself a BIG favor and check out the various wireless-Ethernet card tweaks that have been springing up on the Web.
-- John Miles, KE5FX
No. (Score:3)
I'm the author of the original 10-mbps project... (Score:3)
Amusingly, I submitted the project page to Slashdot myself about a year ago, when I first got the link working. When the submission was rejected, I wrote to one of the well-known admins at Slashdot asking what I needed to do to make it
I just didn't think it was interesting enough.
Sorry.
--
| (admin name omitted) | Just want to be misunderstood,
| (admin name omitted) | I wanna be feared in my neighborhood.
| http://slashdot.org/ | Just want to be a moody man,
| codejockey*gangstero | say things that nobody can understand.
| flove*lovemachine*wr | --Pete Townshend, Misunderstood
Dejected, I was forced to admit that my news-for-nerds quotient just couldn't compete with the guy who built a PC case out of Zebrano wood, or whatever the story-of-the-day was at the time. Consequently, Rob gets major props from me for doing a better job writing up the submission than I did.
Now for the bad news: out of many thousands of hits my site's received over the past year, only one guy, an EE professor at a local university, has successfully duplicated my efforts. In my mind, that somewhat validates the unnamed Slashdot admin's decision not to publicize the project in the first place. People, this is not a project for beginners or casual electronics buffs! In the year since I finished the project, a couple of excellent alternative solutions for RF data links that make good use of off-the-shelf hardware and homemade antennas have come to light. For instance, there's a good page on the topic of modifying Proxim Symphony cards for long-range service at Low-Cost Wireless Network How-To [gbonline.com]. I would have to say that this is a better approach for 99% of the people who have looked at my microwave link page and thought about building it. Heck, in retrospect this is what I should have done, instead of putting in all that engineering time on a 100%-custom solution.
My own 10-megabit link has been running great since last June with only a couple of hours' downtime for maintenance and tweaks, and it's easily the most 'educational' project I've ever tackled. But I think it's important to temper peoples' expectations. If you are an experienced electronics hacker with access to a very well-equipped RF test bench or a university EE lab, and you just want to spend a lot of time and money building something something cool, then I highly recommend my microwave link project. If not, do yourself a BIG favor and check out the various wireless-Ethernet card tweaks that have been springing up on the Web.
-- John Miles, KE5FX
Re:Awesome idea (Score:1)
As others have noted.... (Score:1)
Also, commercial usage rules have been substantially relaxed lately. You should not try to sell ISP services over a link like this. OTOH, using it to order stuff over the 'net is fine.
Re:doesn't sound like he'll get real far (Score:1)
Re:the l0pht has been there, done that (Score:1)
If the L0pht guys have actually built one of these puppies I'd love to hear from them -- AFAIK there has been only one successful duplication of my results so far.
/. Effect Tracking log... (Score:1)
Re:Wow! (Score:1)
Re:Wow! (Score:1)
Re:Amateur Radio *NOT* for commercial use! (Score:3)
Optics? (Score:2)
Ahhh memories... (Score:1)
Re:Drawbacks to Wireless (Score:1)
At the conference I was at, they were pushing Microwave for ~2Mbps at up to 5 or 6 miles when direct line of sight was available, and some kind of infrared for when direct line of sight wasn't (i.e. the infrared transmitters could go through buildings).
Shorter wavelengths are better than longer for travelling through objects and over long distances (line of sight). Remember your 900Mhz cordless phone, now pushing up to the 2.4 Ghz range? The reason behind that is farther transmission with less interference.
Perhaps my understanding of this whole concept is fundamentally flawed? High frequency=short wavelength, I'm positive of that. Low frequency waves are more of the type to pierce solid objects, I ?think. Any input anyone?
As to the ISP you mentioned, did they use directional (parabolic) antennas?
They used directional (parabolic) antennas, and had direct line of sight, i.e. they didn't go over the horizon. One of the owners of the ISP was lucky enough to own some property on the right side of a large hill just on one side of the border, I believe we set the other dish up on the roof of the building a mile or two away.
alt3r3go
10Mogobip/10MbpsT (Score:1)
L0pht Heavy Industries [l0pht.com] has been working on a 10Mogobip wireless network for two years now, they've gotten nodes in Boston, Derry New Hampshire, Cambridge Massachusetts, and Somerville Massachusetts.
Apparently, they have gone beyond simply using microwave, they are also using radio (which is a staple to the guerrilla.net system)...and the security breach he was worried about has been solved...by (1) an NSA approved encryption system, and (2) (which hasn't been implemented) another encryption system "to keep the spooks out".
Ugh...this looks bad, pardon my poor grammar, as I've not completely woken up. For more information, please click the link above.
$20 for 10Kbs, 100MHz (Score:1)
I notice thay also have a site in USA
with details of electronics.
THESE PEOPLE ARE VERY GOOD AND VERY OPEN SOURCE
about their ideas: e.g. how to transmit 800metres in a built up area at 100Mhz with only a few milliwatts...!
The transmitters are designed for Audio
so we can use the Amateur radio linux drivers
with the transmitter plugged into the soundcard.
I have not done this yet.
Theoretically, we can boost the bandwidth to 1Mbs.(1% of the frequency).
Re:How secure? (Score:3)
So generally speaking every signal you send over amateur frequencies must be things that a) you're perfectly comfortable sharing with the rest of the amateur radio community (thus the rest of the world); and b) aren't things that should probably be sent via some existing, equivalent (probably commercialized) route.
In this case, the guy's having fun trying to learn how microwave transmissions work, and what better way to learn how to do these things than to get an amateur license and actually build the darn thing? But the regulations say if he wants to use this link for anything but completely open, completely personal use, he needs to pursue a commercial license (or use a non-amateur product).
For this reason you will not find amateur digital links directly connected to the Internet for any Joe Schmoe to (perhaps inadvertantly) send anything violating FCC regulations over amateur radio frequencies. Things like porn, advertisements and commercial activities do not belong on amateur radio frequencies, and nowadays the web is full of it. In a way, this also hinders a lot of amateur radio digital activities, since we're effectively limited to e-mails and other communications between HAMs.
But this is just one area of digital amateur radio. We've got several satellites in orbit, some capable of doing digital work, and we have new cool things like APRS for instant world-wide messaging (even via satellite if you're in the boonies) and GPS positioning [findu.com]. You could build a home-made LoJack out of something like this.
Dave, WL7RO
Re:How secure? (Score:1)
That reminds me of an engineer at a Denver TV station. He said the engineers who ran the mobile trucks carried maps with the best path for selected areas. Many of them bounced signals off the skyscrapers downtown!
I always thought the microwave transmitters they use would make excelent data transmitters (at the time, VBI was the fastest game in town). You'd need a license, but I don't think they are very expensive.
*Important!* Please note... (Score:1)
The correct link to the project site's front page is http://www.qsl.net/ke5fx [qsl.net]. Sorry for any confusion.
RF propogation (Score:3)
All microwave transmission bit error rates can be improved using standard diversity techniques. Time diversity, sending the same data twice. Accomplished through forward error correction and literally using two transmitters/ receiver pairs with lag placed on the second transmission. Space diversity, using two transmitter/receiver pairs separated laterally relative to the transmission path (a Flock of birds flies across one transmission path but does not affect the other) Frequency diversity, again two transmitters or a single frequency hopping transmitter (ala CDMA cell phones).
Using two transmitters does not mean having to use more frequencies. Using the same frequencies but changing the polarization of your antenna provides 83 dB of attenuation between transmission paths. Ideally you would use several of these diversity methods to give you the most paths possible. your modem also must be smart enough not only to handle multiple redundant paths it must also decide what the "best" data bit is if two bits in the same frame from different paths are interpreted differently by the receivers.
My eyes gloss over when hackers discuss the linux kernel in minutiae. I'm sure you are all there now.
Re:I do it all the time - My cost (Score:1)
As you clearly have some experience doing this, perhaps you could suggest a way to accomplish this? I'm sure others who have similar situations would also be interested in any information you can provide.
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This is neat, but not new info (Score:1)
All you really need is good soddering skills and basic electronics knowledge (more than you need for your ham license)
Possibly the largest problem with this is the FCC's rules on "codes and cyphers" which strictly disallows using them in anyfassion exect to control remotecontroled hobby craft (yeah you should hear the rule on transmitting music if you thought that was silly). I don't know about you but setting this up would be oh so much more uber elite using IPSec on both ends.
as for EPA problems...microwave is directional and so long as there isn't anything in the way...I wouldn't suggest looking into while transmitting if you like seeing...
Getting the ham license is a joke, anyone who has any electronics knowledge and a handful of brain cells can pass it. I did mine in under a 3/2 mins (35 questions or so) and got one wrong.
but hey if anyone of you lives in Grand Rapid MI, letme know..I've been looking for someone to go in on a project like this but the only guy I know lives 7 miles away in a ditch (seriously)
-RijilV
Cell Phone FAQ (Re:Dangers of Microwave radiation) (Score:1)
For more info, try Cellular Phone Antennas and Human Health [mcw.edu], a FAQ page by John E. Moulder, Prof of Radiation Oncology. He even has a section on the Israeli low-level RF health claims.
Dr. Moulder maintains several other radiation-related FAQs, for all your EMF FAQ needs. 8-)
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Re:Ok, But Not If It May Fry An Owl Or Two. (Score:2)
Re:Off-topic, but WOW (Score:2)
Re:Drawbacks to Wireless (Score:2)
Low freqs work well in a more densely packed media, such as water. Sonar and underwater communications devices use low frequencys. Those signals carry over long distances because of the media they are travelling through, rather than because the signals themselves.
Sound Frequency != EM Frequency (Score:2)
First off, sound frequency is the frequency of vibration in a medium. Examples are voice in air and sonar in water.
Electromagnetic Frequency [nasa.gov] is the frequency of the EM wave. Examples are UV (suntan), Infrared (remote control), regular light, AM, and FM.
they are totally different!
Cheap, Short Range Wireless Ethernet (Score:2)
Nearly OT but, on the topic of wireless transmission.... I've been searching around for a way to add ethernet connectivity to the computer that's going in my car (mp3s, gps, etc...). This microwave thing peaked my interest briefly, but I don't think it's what I need. I just need a range of about 10 feet and would settle for 1.5 Mbps. The only commercial solutions I've come across are >$200. Does anyone know of a cheap package for these slow, short range applications. Right now, I'm planning on going with my back-up plan: RJ45 in the grill.
Re:How directed is a microwave signal (Score:2)
So it's not a 2 mile radius.. it's a 2 mile point-point link.
Re:it's illegal (Score:2)
TAPR is in the process of building a Spread Spectrum radio that will be faster than 56k.
http://www.tapr.org/tapr/html/Ftaprfhss.html for details on this project
Re:it's illegal (Score:2)
Re:Drawbacks to Wireless (Score:2)
Also, as the freq goes up the signals start acting more like light than fields, and things start wanting to work more point-to-point. That's one of the reasons I doubt you'll ever see cell phones at 26GHz: the directionality of the signals would be too great to allow you to just whip out your phone: you'd have to point it at the cell tower.
Types of spread spectrum (Score:2)
Data rate limits (Score:2)
Now, why did I keep italicizing baud? Because baud ain't bits per second! It one of my pet peeves when I hear somebody talking about his 33.6kbaud modem, or 56kbaud modem. There ain't such a thing! You have either a 3 kBaud modem or an 8 kBaud modem. A baud is a symbol transition per second, not a bit per second. In the old 300 baud days each symbol was worth 1 bit, so 300baud == 300 bits/second. However, in a 33.6kbit/sescond modem, the baud rate is 3 kbaud, with each symbol worth 11 bits. A 56kbps modem uses 8 kBaud, with 8 bits/symbol (with 1 bit robbed for line signaling).
On 2 meters, I could modulate a signal with C4FM (FM signal, but with 4 levels rather than 2) and get 2 bits/symbol, or 19200bps. If I went to 256QAM, I could get 8 bits per symbol, and still be perfectly legal. Why don't hams do this? Because you cannot hook an external TNC (terminal node controller, the radio equivelent of a modem+network interface) to a standard narrowband FM tranceiver and have it make those kinds of signals - you need a special data radio. Also, 256QAM has far less signal to noise ratio than does BFSK. Hence, the amateur community doesn't avail themselves of the bandwidth they have.
One final point: signal bandwidth does not directly control data bandwidth: as Shannon proved, it's all about signal to noise ratio. The only thing signal bandwidth does is give you a better S/N ratio.
Re:I do it all the time - My cost (Score:4)
The driver support under Linux for the WaveLAN card is fantastic, and the driver is even included with Linux-Mandrake 7.1 -- no special configuration required other than to make sure pcmcia inits before network.
The downside? It's not a 10-Mbps connection, it's only 2-Mbps. However, I routinely run X connections over SSH from a dedicated ssh gateway at my business. The link has fantastic uptime, the signal-noise ratio is almost as good as it gets with a 24dB antenna, and I'm completely undisturbed by power outages (UPS here), snow, rain, etc. High winds (60 m.p.h. + gusts outside right now) do take a toll, though. A 1 watt amplifier allows my 24dB antenna to punch right through the walls of my attic and lets me forget about the many trees, houses, and other obstructions between me and my ISP, 3 miles away.
The WaveLAN card with a pair of antennas and amps would be a much easier, more convenient option for most home users trying to set up this type of connection, IMHO. The amps are pretty expensive (a couple hundred dollars) but do wonders to ensure connection integrity.
Here's what my S/N ratio looks like, catting
Very directional in this case. (Score:3)
The second is that developing high power in the microwave regions is very difficult. Note the quote of a 100 mW diode costing $45 in addition to the $90 cost of the rest of the unit. 100 mW isn't much power.
Fortunately, for link builders, the antenna size to achieve a given gain is proportional to the wavelength of the signal. In the case of this link, extremely high frequency means a very short wavelength and very high gain with not much of an antenna. A 1-2 foot dish will give incredible gain, but reduce your beamwidth to 5 degrees. (I don't have my ARRL Handbook with the exact quotes handy...)
Dear Slashdot (Score:5)
p.s. Do you have any information where I can get a free counter for my website?
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None (Score:2)
Compare this to the 500-1000 watts used by microwave ovens. Also, microwave ovens are specifically tuned to be absorbed at maximum efficiency by water.
The Hot Part: Cooking Things (Score:2)
Expectations were that this could, quite quickly, result in a hot and tasty bird, even in the cool temperatures of Ottawa autumn.
I suspect the station manager nixed the idea; if it interrupted Max Keeping doing the news, there would doubtless be thousands of complaints...
Re:How directed is a microwave signal (Score:3)
Only if the water was very calm, the ship wasn't vibrating much, and the antennas were being kept in line with each other by tracking systems.
It's really amazing just how directional radio waves become as you get into the microwave range. The best analogy would be light: imagine, x miles apart, trying to point two searchlights at each other and keep them properly aimed.
Now, if you mount one of them on a moving target, both of them have to be able to track each other. Very expensive to buy, very time-consuming to build or troubleshoot.
If you want comms to a boat, use lower-frequency RF. The problems you'll have there - ie. availability of frequencies to use, lower bandwidth, etc. will be easier to overcome than the directional properties of microwaves.
Re:Drawbacks to Wireless (Score:2)
doesn't sound like he'll get real far (Score:3)
Second, the statement about "not much operating at 2Mbps" as a reason for trying for 10Mbps makes it sound like he really doesn't understand the way asynchronous networks function.
At least with tcp, you simply transmit more and more (use larger and larger windows) until you start to experience transmission errors, or it just isn't getting you any better throughput, and then step one back from the last increase (well, you're supposed to) and call that your transmission rate.
Basically, the device on the other end ACK's every once in a while to let you know your packet got through. If the device on the other end didn't understand the data, or wasn't ready to recieve it, it can't ACK it. If you don't get your ACK in time, you retransmit. If you're having to retransmit too often, your transmission rate is obviously too high, so you back off your window size and slow down.
It's a cheezy form of bandwidth controll, but it works, sortof. It's the electronic equivalent of not reading a signifigant portion of your email in hopes that people will stop sending so much of it. Except that the protocol is designed such that a correctly written application *will* stop sending so much.
Yes, speed is nice. but relatively low-speed long haul links are the way the world goes round at this point. "T1" is only a 1.4Mbps link and it's more than enough for most corporate internet connections, even if the internal lan is 100Mbps.
The trick is, you have to remember that long haul links, no matter how fast, make really crappy bridges between homogenous networks. The segment length limitations are there for a reason. The speed of light is not just a plot complication in a larry niven novel.
The best way to handle a long haul link is to put a router on each end and let the routers deal with the general bullshit inherent in a really distant bridge.
Better yet, employ some form of traffic shaping (The buzzword is "QOS" but most people don't actually need or want guaranteed quality of service) in order to make sure that the pipe gets used to it's fullest capability rather than let applications choose their own window size and thus often cause the network to behave in a "bursty" manner, where a rude application or server occasionally kicks all other connections off the link for a few miliseconds so it can send it's data in first-class, and then let all the polite apps try and figure out if they can use a large window again.
The traffic controller code in recent 2.2 kernels is great for that kind of thing, btw.
Of course, as other people have pointed out, the legality of a 2Mbps HAM link, let alone 10Mbps, is quite suspect. Someone with access to recent FCC rulings should comment on it.
A licensed amateur may design and build their own device to transmit legally in the HAM bands, and it seems from the rules most people know about that the 10ghz HAM band is limited to 56kbps.
Consumer devices can use unlicensed frequencies such as the 900mhz range used by cordless phones and cellular devices, and the 2.4ghz range that's starting to be used by cordless and cellular devices, but this requires that the design of the device be FCC approved, not an easy thing for joe solderingiron to acheive.
It's posible to use a licensed frequency for high speed data transmission of just about anything you like, but this also requires an FCC approved design.
Is there anyone here who's recently researched FCC rules regarding packet data rates?
Great idea... (Score:2)
http://www.qsl.net/ke5fx/uwave.html [qsl.net]
Definately something to watch, though. Maybe I can get my neighbor to get DSL and then beam it over microwave to me (I'm a little too far...)
dc
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Re:Types of spread spectrum (Score:2)
Also difficult to jam as the ss modem is built to detect the signal in exactly the right spots.
BTW, thanks for clarifying the freq hopping and direct sequence thing!
Not hard at all. (Score:2)
Project hasn't even gotten off the ground yet (Score:2)
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Care to give more data? (Score:2)
I do recall that 56k was the limit in the 440 band, but I haven't head of 56k limits in higher bands. (I think most of them have some limit, but higher than 56k once you get above 1 GHz.)
Re:Sound Frequency != EM Frequency (Score:2)
Electromagnetic Wave [colorado.edu]
It's the same one. (Score:2)
Re:How secure? (Score:2)
Sure. But you really won't need to get into things like IP encryption or scrambling the signal at an analog level.
The limitation of using microwaves turns into a terrific advantage: line of sight is required.
I mean, this thing is almost as much of a line-of-sight system as pointing a laser pointer at the side of a building. The path has to be clear, and the two transceivers will have to be pointed at each other.
It depends on the antennas, but to get any range with the power levels discussed, you're going to need something with a fairly good reflector, preferably parabolic. (Hacking a DirecTV antenna comes immediately to mind.) These are incredibly directional; being off by a degree could lose 3dB of signal strength (half your signal) or more.
This means that someone who wishes to intercept your communications has to be directly in line of sight with your existing equipment. If he's behind one antenna or the other, he'll only be able to receive packets from the more distant antenna, since the closer antenna will be transmitting away from him.
Placing anything in the line of sight - let's say a reflector going to a receive-only rig - will attentuate the signal available for communications to a point where your users will notice it.
In fact, I used to work, on a freelance basis, for a TV station in Ottawa. CJOH-TV is located at Clyde and Merivale, and has a microwave uplink to their transmitter at Camp Fortune, Quebec.
One year, the technicians went out on strike, and it was starting to get pretty nasty.
You know those little plastic-foil balloons? Someone from the NABET union went out and bought thousands of these, along with enough helium to fill them. Somehow, the station management found out and immediately gave in to the demands of the union.
It is speculated, and is the subject of great water cooler and craft services table lore in Ottawa's TV community, that the plan was to inflate the balloons and tether them with strings from some location where they'd be blocking the microwave link. Foil balloons would very nicely have scattered CJOH's uplink and taken the station off the air.
That's to illustrate how much line-of-sight issues will be relevant. Line-of-sight usually implies height (to get above trees and buildings and things), which usually makes things pretty difficult to intercept. In CJOH's case, their uplink was only about 30-50 feet above ground level, and would have been fairly easy to stop with balloons but not practical to eavesdrop (not that you'd want to eavesdrop the microwave when you could just have tuned your TV set to channel 13). Eavesdropping this would have required being in the line of sight and actually placing a receiver high enough to be in the beam - which would have to be a fairly permanent installation, you couldn't do it with a balloon or a kite because it would sway too much to keep the antenna aimed.
Now, that's not to say that there isn't some risk of reflection from buildings and things that will be scattering the beam a bit. But the scattered signal reflected off objects will be very tough to receive with any degree of reliability.
I think the point is, if someone really wants to intercept your communications, they will. Take reasonable precautions to prevent it. How reasonable the precautions are will therefore be dictated by how sensitive the information is. I'd suggest that the difficulty in piecing together such a system, as well as the line-of-sight issues involved, will probably be sufficient security for even fairly sensitive data.
Re:Microwaves vs the Weather? (Score:2)
Amateur Radio license required, the rules apply (Score:2)
When trying to determine if a license is necessary for transmitting on any given frequency, you have to look at the FCC regulations for that part of the radio spectrum. In general, there is nowhere that you have free reign to transmit anything you want. This is a very old problem whose solution is well known. They tried the free-for-all thing 100 years ago when radio was new and found that everyone just interferes with each other and can't do anything, unless they group similar users in certain bands (frequency ranges) of the radio spectrum. So there's a reason why they do that.
On Amateur Radio frequencies, you need an Amateur Radio license. They're not hard to get. Dave lists a good start on his web page on how to study to get one.
On 802.11 Wireless Ethernet, you have to stay on low power to avoid interfering with the licensed users of those frequencies. So even though you don't have a license, that's the condition under which you may transmit. Other commercial uses require commercial licenses that you probably can't afford for a hobby project.
Don't just flaunt the rules. You'll undoubtedly end up interfering with someone who belongs there, which just isn't nice. It may take them a lot of work to find you and they won't be happy when they do because of all the work you caused them. And the FCC started doing enforcement again last year after neglecting it since 1993. Some people are still of the attitude that there's no enforcement. They won't accept ignorance as a defense.
Re:Equivalent License in Canada (Score:2)
Re:How directed is a microwave signal (Score:2)
Re:Wow! (Score:2)
-Spazimodo
Fsck the millennium, we want it now.
Re:Ham Radio use restrictions (Score:2)
why can't you crypt it? Say you use this for email, do you want the entire world "packet sniffing" on your converastions?
Given the insecure nature of shooting you data out into waves avaiable for anyone to listen to, there should be some legal way to secure this...
Maybe "incode" all your senastive information into "quake3 packets"?
Re:it's illegal (Score:2)
-Craig
Re:How secure? (Score:2)
In order to reach that goal, though, he heard about and began investigating amateur radio as a means to that goal, which isn't quite appropriate, but isn't a bad thing at all if he doesn't mind using it strictly in a hobby capacity (not using it with live, potentially regulation-breaking content).
Don't try this at home (Score:2)
I don't know how many of you have been shocked by 110v, but I can attest to the fact that I would rather spend an hour with 110 going through my body than even spending a single second getting a burn from RF.
So, please know what you are doing before you attempt to build something like this. Even standing in the wrong place with relation to the feedhorn is enough to make you sterile in nothing flat, if not cook you from the inside out.
Re:Drawbacks to Wireless (Score:2)
the infrared transmitters could go through buildings
Infrared can't penetrate several pieces of paper, let alone buildings. Infrared is just below visible light in the frequency spectrum, at about 70 terahertz.
The higher you go with frequencies, the more bandwidth you can easily get. (Exceptions are TV broadcasters, who somehow managed to swindle the FCC out of 6mhz per channel in the 55 through 800mhz range). The more bandwidth, the more clarity (perhaps what you meant by "less interference") you can encode in whatever digital encoding scheme you're using. However, the signal also gets more directional and starts to not penetrate things (like raindrops and trees). HF (signals below about 30mhz, this includes shortwave) can be reflected by the atmosphere and travel around the world (depending on conditions and the specific band you're using). VHF/UHF (30mhz to about 1ghz) will go through hills/concrete structures/etc usually, but there's not much bandwidth left in the VHF/UHF range for people wanting to set up 2mbps links to their friends. Microwave (1GHz on up) has plenty of room, but the signals can't penetrate much.
Robert Woodcock, KC7WOZ
Re:Home made microwave links... (Score:2)
As to modem, I mean the RF side of the equation. The modem that converts the data traffic from digital to an analog signal that can be transmitted inside an RF freq. Fer instance, equipment I've worked with in the past would be converted by the modem to a 70Mhz-ish signal to dump into the...ohhh, what was it called....it went: channels -> mux -> modem -> freq converter? -> transmitter and vice-versa.
The ss modems were a little different though. I can't even remember if it was really a modem, or they just called it that (sorry, 8 years of drunken stupor have separated my experience with this stuff from the present) for snicks. I do remember having to program the altitude of the satellite into the ss modem in order to get the timing down. It needed to calculate the propogation delay to the satellite in order to synch up. You'd think that
What's really cool... (Score:2)
Ham Radio use restrictions (Score:5)
- No profanity
- No music
- Nothing remotely commercial
- No encryption
After all, it's a privilege to generate an electromagnetic field...Re:How secure? (Score:2)
Drawbacks to Wireless (Score:3)
One of the unfortunate drawbacks to high-speed wireless data transmission, especially in the 10mbps range, is the tradeoff of frequency vs. transmission range. (I'm pulling this all from memory of a conference I attended on wireless data transmission, please correct me if I'm wrong). The problem is that high bandwidth wireless pipes (microwave) require very high transmission frequencies, typically in the 2.x GHz range IIRC. Waveforms with high frequencies have short wavelength, and therefore do not travel far, or through objects (in the same way that you can hear the bass from your neighbor's stereo, but not the treble).
Unless this technology has advanced substantially in recent years, most microwave transmitters require line-of-sight, and rarely transmit more than a few miles. An ISP I used to work for purchased a set of microwave transmitters to allow them to expand their business into a neighboring state without paying taxes and tarrifs on a leased line crossing state borders. The band these microwave transmitters use isn't retulated by the FCC, so transmission at those frequencies is open game. We had to set up the transmitters on opposite sides of the border (a few miles apart), and align them for line of sight. Even at a short range, we still only got E1 speeds (which I understand to be ~2mpbs).
alt3r3go