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Cell Phone Companies To Release Radiation Data 322
digitalfrustration writes: "The U.S. cellular telephone industry will start publishing information on the amount of radiation that enters users' heads when they use various wireless phones." Story by CNN. By the way, on the off-chance that the data says the equivalent of 'For The Love Of God, Stop Using This Device, We're Surprised You're Not Dead Yet,' does anyone think that people would stop using them?
Re:I won't stop using my cel phone for sure (Score:1)
Oh yeah, science-boy. Have you ever read the transcripts of the tobacco liti cases? If you had, you'd know that the evidence on those eeeeevvvilllll cigarettes causing cancer is much less strong than you think. Let me put it this way:
If you read the transcripts (including the sidebars and expert witnesses), you'll see that this is actually the state of scientific opinion. The fact is, however, that if the real cause of cancer (stress) were to be recognised, then all the big capitalist industries which work their employees to within an inch of their life would be in the firing line. Instead, capital decided to throw the (largely agricultural, poor) tobacco growers to the wolves.
Re:Amusing products advertised on Discovery (Score:1)
Re:UM I AM NOT A TROLL! (Score:1)
I have been reading this page for about 2-3 months, although I just created this account a few days ago. Still, the idea is that people can discuss news and post their opinions and share them, not that the most common opinion be repeated and glorified while legitimate arguments to the contrary are censored. It doesn't happen that way all the time, but I'm idealistic enough to think that it can work.
Umm, I think the insults were based on the fact that your opinions were stupid, and you spelled things wrongly. Of course thats just speculation on my part.
Stupid is in the eye of beholder. Nothing can objectively be stupid, although maybe your definition of stupid means "something that contradicts your opinion." And a post shouldnt be marked down because I'm not the best speller. Even the writers here cant spell. Negative moderation is for spam, offtopic posts, or obscene posts, not posts you disagree with.
Hmm, thats rather a strong statement to make, Since you know so much about us all, whats my real name? Which country do I live in? What did I do last Friday?
It was an insult in response to an insult against me. I know that it is just as illogical and rude as saying someones opinion is stupid because you disagree with it and then providing no means to support yourself.
So what if you feel that? Others might disagree with you. Have you taken a driving test, or did you just decide that you know how to drive well enough?
Uh yes I took a test, thats how I got my license, smart guy! I'm not saying that I am the best driver, but I did get near perfect on the driving test, all my friends and my brother and sister and my parents say I'm one of the safest drivers they know, and unlike all of my friends I haven't been in any accidents, even minor ones. Of course I had my license for only a year or so, but for now I am a good driver and that is what counts.
Tell that to someone you crash into.
I haven't had one, and I don't plan on getting in one
Re:People Are Funny (Score:2)
Well yes, the media *always* has a field day. never let the facts get in the way of a circulation-boosting story
a couple of groups of "concerned citizens" will call for a ban
Sounds good - not for health reasons, but because they are *irritating* in cinemas, churches, anywhere really....
What I would *like* to see happen is that phone companies are forced to give free "hands free" sets with their phones; they aren't that expensive, and the number of idiots that currently would be driving at ($SPEEDLIMIT+5) with one hand attached to an ear and a piece of plastic might reduce (well, I *suppose* they are reducing now, but autodarwination doesn't really count)
and mobile phone companies will have a new number to differentiate their products with.
Saves them making something up. in any case, we will end up with some figure that is meaningless but has a very low value (like Peak Music Power but in reverse)
The funniest thing will be seeing whether lower radiation phones give poorer reception.
They will probably work around it - whenever there is a technical constraint, engineers find a way to make it work anyhow.
In a few years the media will have a new bogie man and no-one will care less.
Well, the "quality sunday broadsheets" will probably drag it back out every few years when things are slow, with a "still nothing has been done about it" piece.
--
Hot spots... (Score:1)
Re:UM I AM NOT A TROLL! (Score:1)
Re:Radiation effect / proximity (Score:1)
ObMandyRiceDavies:-
They would say that, wouldn't they...
Re:Cellphones are wretched artifacts of Lucifer! (Score:3)
I was thinking like that as well before my employer provided me with a cell phone and I got used to using it. The point is that a cell phone provides you more freedom: you can be easily reached by phone, but you can also screen what calls (caller id) to take and when to take them.
You see, if you don't want to be disturbed, switch the damn thing to silent mode or off. When you feel like it, switch the phone back to normal mode again.
Then of course there are all these young dumbass punks who have them because they think it is "cool" and who think they're impressing people when they're talking on them.
This phase is fortunately already over in Europe where it looks like everybody from kids to grandparents have cell phones. Claiming that people try to impress other people by carrying a cell phone is rather ridiculous in this situation. It's almost like saying that people who own a PC are just trying to impress their friends.
Re:You should all be ashamed. (Score:1)
Malda, Bates et al. really ought to do more to try to encourage useful, polite discourse. A simple profanity filter would probably be easy to circumvent, but it would send a message.
--streetlawyer
The science behind it (Score:2)
To date there is no evidence that cell phones have any serious adverse health effects (beyond being distracting while driving). There have been studies, most recently by Hardell et al this spring, which have shown a trend towards an increased risk, in that case of brain tumor, but the study had some weaknesses which would have made that fairly weak evidence, even had it been statistically significant.
The case which is often made by anti-cell-phone debaters is that "the industry" should somehow be responsible for "proving" that cell phones are "safe". Anyone who's worked with statistics or epidemiology knows that that's not what statistics do. The studies done so far haven't shown any statistically significant increased health risks, so in the statistical sense of the word, they've helped "prove" cell-phones are "safe".
The technically inclined know that the proposed biological ground for the danger of cell phones is shaky at best. RF "radiation", aka microwaves, is not ionizing, and so won't cause cancer by the mechanism that, for example, X-rays and atom bombs will. Cell phones do output a few watts of energy through the antenna, and some of this will be absorbed by the person holding the phone, causing their scalp to warm up one or two degrees. That regional temperature differences in the scalp or even brain could cause cancer is a claim that has yet gone unproved.
Some good reading for those of you genuinely curious about the phones, radiation, and power lines:
Linet et al, Residential Exposure to Magnetic Fields and Acute Lymphoblastic Leukemia in Children; NEJM 1997, 337.1
Hardell et al, Case control study...risk factors for brain tumour; Medscape Gen Med, May 4, 2000. http://www.medscape.com/Medscape/GeneralMedicine/j ournal/2000/v02.n03/mgm0504.hard/mgm0504 .hard.html requires login
Hardell et al, Use of cellular phones and the risk of brain tumours, a case-control study; Int J Oncol, 1999. Jul 15.
But go ahead and check out PubMed for more articles, there's been quite a lot of research done.
Re:UM I AM NOT A TROLL! (Score:1)
Moderate this post -1: Arrogant Chauvinist Pig
Re:People Are Funny (Score:1)
now thats scary!!
"The importance of using technology in the right way has never been more clear." [microsoft.com]
No way I stop using them! (Score:1)
More seriously, if their is a problem with radiation they will say that their was a problem with the precedent generation but the new generation is safe and when the next generation comes we will know that the old generation was indeed dangerous (I never trusted Kirk ;)).
I don't (Score:1)
It's like smoking, anyway. I don't smoke, but I'm forced to smoke by people surrounding me. I don't use mobile phones, but people around me do all the time. So, you want it or not, we're all getting the crappy radiations in our brains and the stupid smoke in my (ill) lungs.
Re:UM I AM NOT A TROLL! (Score:1)
Uh, I thought "Risking your life and that of others for no particularly good reason" was a fairly good indicator, actually.
> -1: Arrogant Chauvinist Pig
Have you ever noticed how that phrase is only ever used by women who are generalising about those evil nasty males? Funny, that.
Re:You should all be ashamed. (Score:1)
sound like "leet Warez").
You have to admit, that (original) post did look like a troll. It was full of strong opinions that weren't backed up by any facts, and then that "I can drive safely while using a cell phone" hook was thrown in at the end.
hey.... (Score:1)
hey, i still smoke cigarettes.
Re:Cellphones are wretched artifacts of Lucifer! (Score:1)
Why would I want to travel more than 15 km from home, when there's everything I want less than 10km from home!!! Cars are diabolical because they cause you to spend time and money traveling to nowhere.
Then of course there are those dumbass punks who have them because they think it's "cool". Yeah, you're impressing me with your stupidity by paying lots of money when you have a perfectly good pair of feet. Get a bicycle if you want to move around.
(The above poster forgot to mention radiation risks with cellphones, but here's the matching paragraph anyway...) And of course using a car increase your risk of dying due to severe body trauma. Doesn't anybody realize this? Sure, the car companies try to conceal the effects, but <conspiracy>I've seen</conspiracy> what a car can do to you, and you'll never catch me in one.
[mods: this is ironic, not fbait, mod accordingly]
People smoke, don't they? (Score:4)
And they certainly won't stop using them while driving.
Cell Phones (may) have positive effects (Score:2)
See FDA Consumer Update on Mobile Phones [fda.gov] (October 1999).
San Jose Mercury News has a story [sjmercury.com]
My personal observation is that mobile-phone-dependent people tend to have a very short attention span. I don't know which causes which, though. Maybe the FDA will test that in lab.
No way will people stop (Score:2)
I can just see it now... "That's not a tumor growing out of my head. It's a genetically enhanced cellular phone holder!".
Radiation Risk? (Score:2)
Suckers... (Score:3)
And they laughed at my tinfoil hat! Let's see whose brain the cell-phones take over now!
A scene: (Score:3)
-Antipop
Slashdot always ignores obvious questions (Score:2)
Re:People Are Funny (Score:2)
My operating philosophy is that people should balance the need to stay away from EM fields and environmental toxins with the convenience of products which expose them to these things. With cell phones the balance is easy, just use a headset! With electric blankets the balance is just don't bother because they are frivolous. With TV's, it only makes sense for the population to move towards LCD. With powerlines, provably harmful or not, why choose to live near them if you have a choice?
Consumers should be informed! (Score:2)
Re:Sexist abuse? More like honest truth (Score:2)
Not that I intend to drag myself into the gender debate, but the way Patricia and Lita being treated is quite uncalled for. It's also sad that any woman with intelligence who is not passive is considered a feminist.
Grow up majority-of-men, this is not the 1950s. It's time you stop feeling threatened by intelligent women. You can handle being beat by a man, but can you handle being beat for by a woman? The mentality in play here is quite sad.
Regards,
Matt Heckaman
PS: I'm not a troll, though I'm sure I'll be moderated down for my non-conformist view.
Re:UM I AM NOT A TROLL! (Score:2)
By posting here I'm losing my ability to moderate in this discussion, so don't blame me for the "Troll" on the post at the top of the thread, it's not me.
In all honesty I find it hard to believe that you think it sensible to drive and speak on the phone at the same time. Admittedly there are a lot of people that do it, there are also many cases of car accidents caused by people driving and talking on the phone at the same time. A number of studies have been carried out and they indicate that even if you have a hands free kit, the attention you have to pay to the conversation you're having has a very detrimental effect on your reaction times.
So without wanting to use words like "Stupid", I still have to say that I find your point of view irresponsible - but that's just an opinion too.
Finally - being able to install Linux hardly makes you a rocket scientist, after all, even I managed to do it.
Re:I've Already Stopped Using Mine (Score:2)
Ah, but do get into cars? Your risk of injury from an auto accident is tremendous compared to the chance of cancer from a cell phone.
The fact is that people are scared of technology because they don't understand it and they don't feel like they have control. And there's no consistency here, either. Other people have mentioned electric blankets. Electric razors for men have got to be just shooting radiation right at a very important set of glands, but no one is whining on the evening news about them.
So, there are two options: actually learn enough science to make an informed decision on your very own, or keep running around like Chicken Little. Personally, I'll take the science.
-jon
Re:I've had this happen! (Score:2)
If the data can be manipulated and interpreted in such a way as to find the tiniest glimmer of a possibility of a health hazard resulting from cell-phone use, then this is the argument that will be used by the scaremongers to legislate their demise.
Not Magic! (Score:3)
Scam idea: Charge $100+ for a "modification" which "reduces radiation exposure by 99%"... and just swap out the speaker. Use the above mentioned "monitor shake" test as your proof
It's amazing to me how much power people give away because they don't understand science. I think Arthur C. Clark was right when he said "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". [infowar.com] It's not magic... but I could certainly treat it as such, and get quite a few people to believe me. (In this case, at least)
--Mike--
Re:But the Question Will Be: How Long Have They Kn (Score:2)
Well, I can't speak authoritatively on this, of course, but I used to work at the George Washington University Medical Center's Animal Research Lab (and before anyone jumps on my case, it was a very humane lab, and it was a work study position. I don't want to hear it.)
Well, I will jump on it.
Actually, this is the kind of thing that animal research should do. I'd much rather have some dogs, monkeys or mice die than watch my son or mother slowly die of cancer. (Look at the word humane versus inhumane, and pick - a pig dying in a clean lab, or a loved one dying in a hospital unable to help).
Realistically, there is no way I can glean any information from the slip of paper that comes with my new cell phone that tells me that I'm going to get 1500 bogorads of radiation across these nine spectra.
If, however, I hear that every mouse exposed to a PCS phone developed a three-ton tumor on their nads after two months, I think I might look at getting a different phone.
Oh, and didn't the research already occur in europe regarding this issue? (Good Science requires checking the study elsewhere, so it's not a useless study). I seem to remember reading about it, but a minute of browsing didn't find it. (Although there are some good scare pages on Anglefire about radiation).
--
Evan
Re:People smoke, don't they? (Score:2)
Cigarettes were initially the target of a small but noisy group of people who didn't like them. It's true that the things kill you, but so do a myriad of other products that people use. Once that weirdo surgeon general Dr. Everett Kook got onto the anti-smoking bandwagon and conviced Ronnie Raygun to do the same the level of Government supported FUD exploded (along with the inherent hypocrasy of supporting the habit by way of benefitting from the taxation of the product.) Doesn't this situation strike anyone as being completely assbackwards? Shouldn't the government be funding anti-smoking campaigns with their tobacco derived revenues to try to prevent having to treat the goddamn associated disease in the first place?
So what's this got to do with the price of tea in china? Well, consider that it took nearly 100 years of the cigarette industry to be villified for their product. Christ, the American (and every other country) used to send smokes to the boys overseas in the first and second world wars. Perhaps that should make them culpable for the pain and suffering of the soldiers who became addicted and ended up dying from the effects of lung cancer, some as old as 90 years old!! (not to mention the effect of having their legs blown off).
Now imagine, since society is equally addicted to the use of cell phones (which I detest BTW), that they do in fact cause some minor cellular damage but only over the course of a lifetime so that the cancer of the skin or brain or hair or whatever of the user does not show up until they've used the product for 25 or 30 years. Sound familiar? Sure, but we have to wait 25 or 30 years to find out whether they really are "killers" and by then everyone will be so used to wearing one on their head that it will take another 25 or 30 or 50 years to convice civilization that maybe they shouldn't be doing this anymore.
Oh fuck I don't know. Time for a smoke maybe.
Pfttt, ahhhhhh.
You should all be ashamed. (Score:4)
I haven't posted to Slashdot for a while because I was getting sick of this kind of sexist abuse. I tried to share my insight with Slashdot (and I was mostly successful - I achieved a +1 bonus within a couple of weeks), and yet I was still greeted with ignorant comments like "You're just a girl, what do you know?". Some people obviously found it too challenging to see past my sex and read what I was actually saying. I'm a big girl and at first I didn't take much notice of this sort of small-minded abuse, but after a while I decided it was no longer worth the hassle to post to Slashdot. Does Slashdot really want to drive insightful posters away?
The way that Patricia has been treated today is disgusting, and I hope you're all ashamed of yourselves. She implies that she's 16, so of course she's going to make a few naive comments. But this is hardly an excuse for the sort of hostility she has received. Maybe people should have politely corrected her, rather than resorting to flames. We should be trying to nurture and encourage young female geeks, rather than treating them so badly.
Patricia: keep posting to Slashdot, and try your best to ignore the comments of some of these cavemen. The majority of Slashdot readers and moderators are decent people, but there are a few sexist neanderthals who try to spoil it for everyone.
More head protection (Score:3)
The Real Reason this data is being released. (Score:2)
The reason cell phone companies are releasing this data is to try and convince us all to get head sets for our phones. This isn't about health, there is, as has been pointed out, a very low risk from cancer from these things. This is about selling accessories.
"A fool and his money ..." (Score:2)
Some people would scoff at a product like that then go out and put magnets in their shoes to relieve pain. It is like that joke saying: "My numerologist told me that only fools believe in astrology."
Re:People smoke, don't they? (Score:2)
Australia (Score:3)
Why? Because it's DANGEROUS. You're concentrating on who someone was seen with at someone's party? While you're in control of a 1 ton vehicle doing 55 miles an hour?
Oh, and in case anyone says "ooh, Australia. Backwards. Censorship. Evil. Nasty" - Australia has the third highest uptake in the world of mobile phones, second only to two Scandinavian countries.
They're too widespread, too convient (Score:4)
Summary of rambelings:
It'll cause changes, but cell phones are here to stay. But who doesn't know that?
bash: ispell: command not found
Not that you're much more reasonable.... (Score:2)
If not:
What's the difference between talking on the phone and talking to someone sitting next to you?
First, if you don't have a hands-free set, you've got your hand by your ear the whole time. You're obstructing your vision and giving yourself one fewer hand to keep control with.
If you do have a hands free set, your attention is diverted from your immediate surroundings. Someone else in the car is responding to the same visual cues as you are, and you are free to break off any moment with no explanation. You can also do this on the cellphone, of course, but there's pressure not to.
These are small factors that don't matter most of the time, but are crucial if you need fast reactions.
Also, I hope you don't check directions on the map on a busy freeway at 60mph or check your blind spot every 10 seconds for the duration of a typical phone call (or when the road's not safe for at least a fraction of a second into the foreseeable future). You have far less control over the timing of a phone conversation than most things you do in the car. People can call you, and people hate being ignored or hung up on. It would be nice if the social pressure against that didn't exist, but it's not going away anytime soon.
Check http://www.onhea lth.com/conditions/in-depth/item/item,2350_1_1.as
It's government, trying to protect it's citizens from anything potentially harmful; and this is wrong!
They ban drunk driving, too. What's your point? They may be different quantitatively (I'm not sure), but you're making a qualitative point here.
What's the next step? Legislation requiring homes to be one level only, so no one can hurt themselves by falling down stairs? Federally mandated safety-scissors? Restricted, liquid-only diet to reduce risk of choking?
Yeah, where do they get off requiring drivers to get licensed? Or not letting you drive without insurance?
I note your point, but then again, when you're driving, you can hurt a lot of people besides yourself very, VERY easily.
Banning a single technology or behaviour is sheer ignorance.
That's an awfully ignorant statement. Everything in moderation.
This cellphone ban may be the wrong idea, but it may not be. Is it considerably more or less dangerous than drunk driving? Than checking a map? Than talking to your friend? And then the decision needs to be made on those grounds.
Laptops as birth control (Score:2)
No joke -- the ideal temperature for sperm is actually several degrees cooler then the 98.6 F that most of the body runs at. That's why the testicles are swinging in the breeze, instead of tucked inside the body for protection.
I've heard it told of a primitive tribe in Africa that employed a method of birth control where the males would soak their testicles in hot water for several minutes before engaging in sexual intercourse. No word on how well it worked.
I wonder if the heat effects on balls are more than just temporary.
As long as you're not actually burning yourself (and if you keep something that hot on your balls, you don't deserve to reproduce
and now for something completely different ... (Score:2)
It sounds like a real trade-off:
signal strength vs. possible health effects.
Filters, or filterless? Chooose yer poison.
My guess is this: adaptations will be made.
Take for instance the earpiece/microphone attachments. These put the base unit in your pocket. Those components could be made wireless, only having to transmit a strong enough signal to be picked up by the base unit and amplified to hit a tower/satellite.
I'll bet that the 1st generation of TVs would cook a TV dinner in under an hour
Re:People Are Funny (Score:2)
Attention! A Warning from the Surgeon General:
Excessive use of Slashdot may cause dizziness, eyestrain, headaches, hypertension, reduced brain function, loss of memory, brain tumours, cancer, spontaneous combustion, and the urge to GPL any and all code.
Re:I've Already Stopped Using Mine (Score:2)
Amusing products advertised on Discovery (Score:5)
These people are serious! They actually think a patch the size of an elongated quarter placed over the earpiece of a cel phone will save you. They had it all. Everything from a generic American mother saying, in a deadpan face and a concerned voice "I'd never let my teenager use an unprotected celluar phone!" to a really scientific test where they held a cel phone up to a monitor and showed how it made the monitor shake. Then they put one of their magical filters on the phone, and showed how the monitor didn't shake anymore. Riiiiiiight. They must have that special Gauss-model phone that wasn't available when I went shopping for my PCS phone (Which doesn't, for the record, make my monitor shake)
I certainly hope nobody is taking that product seriously. As if the only radiation in a phone comes directly out the earpiece in a unidirectional fashion. They even suggested you can use their filters on standard wireless phones.
I suppose they're just feeding on the classic fear (And in many cases, paranoia) of the unknown that seems to be an all-too-constant aspect of humanity. Even if cel phones are harmful, these filter-making folks definitely don't have the solution.
Alternatives (Score:2)
But, on the off chance that it is, there are a number of viable alternatives. You could keep the antenna on a belt unit the size of a pager, and have an IR, wire, or weak radio connecting it to a corresponding handset. Of course, I still think subdermal microphones and earphones are the best idea, with a wire running under the skin to flat antennas implanted on the shoulder blades.
Re:Amusing products advertised on Discovery (Score:2)
One good reason (Score:2)
In my case, it's because my employer pays me to.
Would I do so otherwise? Unlikely. Nobody I know needs to get in touch with me that badly. I've got an answering machine.
I did carry an unactivated cell phone in my glove compartment before I got this job, though. (You can still use an unactivated phone to make emergency calls).
I've had this happen! (Score:2)
He realized, of course, of the pot and the kettle situation. But still, it happened.
Re:People Are Funny (Score:2)
They do make announcements. Those silly little fake-trailers you watch before the movie always say "Enjoy our popcorn - please silence pagers and phones."
As for I need to get a call, well, don't go to a movie then. It's that simple.
By far the most annoying place for mobile phones is the restaurant though. I find it incredibly rude to sit at a table and eat while someone else at the table yaks on the phone. At least get up and go outside, damnit.
Re:Amusing products advertised on Discovery (Score:2)
--
I didn't work in the smoking industry. (Score:2)
Re:People Are Funny (Score:2)
I wish more places would install Cellular Firewalls [netline.co.il] like this one. I think every theatre should have one - if you want to make a call, go outside dammit.
Re:Not Magic! (Score:3)
Your theory of it being the speaker is further contradicted by the fact that these emmissions are strongest before the phone rings on an incomming call. You've seen this yourself, likely. You know how you can always tell a second before the phone rings 'cause your car radio (if you keep your phone in the unused ash-tray like I tend to) starts acting up.
So I suspect you are seeing many high-frequency packets. Mind you, we'll see more of this if the spread-spectrum pulse technology comes around.
People Are Funny (Score:5)
I work for an electricity distributor, and we used to have a lot of complaints from people about the "radiation" from power lines. This was, of course, due to media attention and it seemed no amount of scientific facts can appease them once it's been mentioned on the nightly news. However, as the most recent such report was a few years ago most people don't actually bring it up anymore.
The funny thing is, the same people who are concerned about power lines and mobile phones have no qualms about sitting in front of a TV or computer for hours each day being bombarded with X-rays, or being subjected to large EM fields by electric blankets, hair dryers, etc. They just saw some reporter claiming an small, unsupported study found an extremely weak link between power lines and some disease.
Unlike power lines, mobile phones may actually damage cells due to the high frequencies used, but I doubt it will be significant. I predict the media will have a field day, a couple of groups of "concerned citizens" will call for a ban and mobile phone companies will have a new number to differentiate their products with. The funniest thing will be seeing whether lower radiation phones give poorer reception. In a few years the media will have a new bogie man and no-one will care less.
If any harmful effects do exists, they will only show up as statistical deviations in cancer rates many years hence. This will be explained by the medical community as "possibly due to mobile phone usage, but could have many other causes."
It's a cruel world.
Power Lines and Cancer (Score:2)
On the other hand I do wish they would put up devices in movies etc so that they would block cell phones (Mine gets turned off) as its just annoying when you are in the middle of a film and someone's phone goes off
The Cure of the ills of Democracy is more Democracy.
Re:Amusing products advertised on Discovery (Score:2)
Bummer.
Cellphones, the new cigarettes... (Score:2)
Hell, using the cell can be just as rude as smoking cigarettes, and cellphone use is higher in Europe than the US (by roughly the same percentages even?
Your Working Boy,
Re:But the Question Will Be: How Long Have They Kn (Score:4)
Well, I can't speak authoritatively on this, of course, but I used to work at the George Washington University Medical Center's Animal Research Lab (and before anyone jumps on my case, it was a very humane lab, and it was a work study position. I don't want to hear it.) doing administrative computer stuff that included a bit of data entry for a study on the effects of cell phone radiation on mice. IIRC, this was one of the larger such stdies, and it was a multi-year project.
Since I was working there in '95 and '96, that probably would have put the project completion around '98. Give another year for chewing on the data, internal meetings and such, and you'll prolly find that they only really completed things last year. However, I also remember that the study results, to that point, were mostly inconclusive. There really wasn't a higher incidence of tumors, malignant or otherwise, in the test groups as compared to the control groups.
-Todd
---
Are you freakin kidding?? (Score:2)
Oh, wait... This is America after all, and people get an extra large burger, and a Diet Coke to go with it! This is where people eat exorbitant amounts of beef and chicken fat, because they know that they can always have it violently vacuumed (liposuctioned) out of their ass by a surgeon. And if they're too poor for that, they can use a drug to reduce their cholesterol - hell, we can transplant a new liver for you after the drugs fry the original. This is where people buy a Ford Excursion (14MPG) to go to the grocery store; and drive the beast at 90MPH in the right lane. This is where people will buy sour-cream labelled as 'lite' to counter-act the burger (since the Coke didn't do it); and where the marketter can label a product as 'lite' because it's brighter in colour than the "leading national brand". This is where people move to the 'big city' for the higher paying job, and spend twice as much as they should for rent; where they ride a stationary bike (that doesn't go anywhere), so they can look good while baking in the sun.
Convenience-lemmings will, of course, keep on using cell-phones; even if the price is a guaranteed brain tumour by the age of 80... After all, most will die of emphysema, skin cancer, colon cancer, car accident or heart attack long before that.
And the remaining rich have good insurance.
This is a disposable society, using disposable goods, disposable resources and disposable organs. There are disposable people living in the streets. Disposable kids, the products of disposable marriages, let themselves into their empty disposable homes after school and get baby-sat by an idiot-box whose only purpose is to reinforce this mentality. They hope that, their disposable dad doesn't get disposed of by his employer and doesn't dispose of their step-mom whose disposable T&A are starting to sag again.
But hey, it's all good.
What about laptops? (Score:2)
What about putting a laptop right on top of the family jewells?!
A laptop is certainly using more power than a cell phone (unless it's using transmeta, hehehe) and while it does offer more shielding, it usually sits there for a lot longer I would guess.
Also, I hope they show comparisons to normal 900MHz/2.4GHz phones.
But the Question Will Be: How Long Have They Known (Score:5)
But seriously, I doubt that cell phones cause cancer any more than everything else around us does these days. Face it: life causes cancer. Most modern tech increases health risks. Six inches away from a small 15" CRT that I am, I am undoubtedly increasing my risks for cancer somewhat. Sitting a couple feet from a 19" CRT probably contributes just as much. Running your computer caseless probably contributes a tiny little bit to cancer risks, as probably does using cellphones, preservatives, cultured cheese products, soy products (recent studies suggest soy is a carcinogen in mice), diet soda, and just about anything useful. Personally, I'm fed-up with the overly-health-consciousness which causes us to put so many constraints on life that it isn't as fun as it should be. Plus, most of it is bullshit--fat and cholesterol are supposedly bad for you, yet the French practically have IVs of pure butter hooked into their veins and yet they're healthier than and live longer than Americans. To hell with no drinking, no smoking, no eating greasy pork products, and no enjoying buttery sugary eggy confections. It's time we just started enjoying life and not being so concerned with radiation, dietary intake, and how many hormones are in milk: who cares if we live to a hundred carefully if we could just have sixty five really fun years? Just my opinion.
Shaking monitors / FCC Rules (Score:3)
It would be interesting to get its radiation signature, if for no other reason than to understand and compensate for these annoying "features."
But I wonder: What happened to the FCC rule that said that an item "must not cause interference, and must accept interference from other items"? Last time I checked, all electronic equipment had to be tested to meet this rule. What changed?
sulli
Possible positive outcome (Score:3)
- lower radiation exposure (which lowers a persons IQ without actually imposing a true evolutionary penalty through hereditary defects).
and
- Lower fatalities resulting from cell-phone use while driving.
Here's to hoping for the best!
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This will create competition among manufacturers (Score:2)
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Magnets, EnerX, Viagra, Valium, Ritalin rant (Score:2)
EnerX, an 'all natural' alternative to Viagra, which is most likely just a 'secret' blend of Ginseng, Ginko and St. John's Wort; sold at 10x the price of the ingredients.
Viagra, and the whole slew of 'lifestyle' drugs - while there are valid medical reasons for a few individuals, people are popping these things like M&M's. Just wait until we get to see the long-term effects of that one... Ritalin, given to every child who doesn't pay attention in class (like any of us did, right?) is the new Valium...
I suspect that mothers who took Valium while pregnant, brought forth kids who now NEED Ritalin. These same mothers are much more likely to cure their kids' problems with pills than with proper upbringing... And these are the same mothers who defer parental responsibility to the TV set and school system.
Curious... (Score:2)
What 'radiation' do people think comes out of cellular phones?
I mean, are they worried about the 800Mhz -> 5 Ghz range?
The thing is, when Joe American (or any other Joe..) thinks Radiation, he thinks like 'nuclear bomb' and 'radioactive isotope'.)
Are we talking alpha, beta, gamma. or.. ????
No.. we aren't. We're talking about a couple of watts of 900Mhz (or perhaps 2.4Ghz or somewhere in there). It's *NOT* ionizing radiation. As far as we know, it can't break down molecular bonds.
2.4Ghz is used in microwave ovens, to shake polarized molecules (chiefly water) , but that takes a reflecting cavity to keep the microwaves in, and a 600 watt microwave emitter! And that's just to heat food up! (really.. if you stuck your hand in a microwave oven for like 3 seconds, it probably wouldn't do any permanent damage to you. Might hurt though...)
I'm not denying that cellular phones may pose some kind of health risk to do the RF.... but if they do, this wouldn't be just about cellular phones, it would be a study into the effects of RF from *all* sources. Something we keep using more and more of, and still consider harmless.
I've Already Stopped Using Mine (Score:3)
When people ask you if there's a cell phone number you can be reached at, you just say "nope" and they'll give you a quizzical look- like you just fell off the turnip truck- but nothing really bad has ever happened to be because I didn't have one.
There's a chance that I'm hamstrining my career by not making myself availible like that, but I bet that career advancement looks pretty short-sighted when you're sitting on the terminal end of a brain tumor.
I hope that didn't sound like a flame. Those are just the honest reasons why I stopped. And no, I'm not saying that I think these phones necessarily cause cancer, I'm just saying that in my opinion, some things just aren't worth risking.
Different types of risk (Score:3)
There is a possibility that the risk of cell phones is more than just background noise. We should wait and see. We we shouldn't just ignore it if the results are bad.
Re:People Are Funny (Score:2)
They just saw some reporter claiming an small, unsupported study found an extremely weak link between power lines and some disease.
I think you should take a look at the most recent issue of IEEE Spectrum magazine [ieee.org]. The "Speakout" section for July 2000 [ieee.org] contains an article on exactly this subject.
Unfortunately, the online version is restricted to IEEE members, but here's a quick synopsis:
So this guy recommends looking at peak E fields outside homes near HV power lines, and also looking at areas near lower-voltage (66kV to 230kV) lines that interconnect US substations. He also recommends trying to recreate E-field data from the Denver and LA studies using power company records.
Interesting stuff, and certainly not to be brushed off without a modicum of thought.
(BTW, you'll note that nowhere above do I say that HV lines cause cancer, merely that there's an interesting statistical link. Ashley is careful to do the same in his article, pointing out simply that we really don't know what, if any, causative process is going on -- we just don't have enough knowledge to answer the question yet.)
Re:But the Question Will Be: How Long Have They Kn (Score:2)
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Re:People smoke, don't they? (Score:2)
Re:I won't stop using my cel phone for sure (Score:2)
Well, this kind of thinking worries me. Why?
There are plenty of products out on the open market that are unsafe. You see, companies work to create the highest profits. If a company can save a few dollars, or even a few cents, per product, that translates to millions of dollars if they sell enough product. And if they determine that by excluding x safety feature from y product saves them a amount of money, if a amount of money is more than it takes to deal with b amount of isolated lawsuits, guess what -- the safety feature will be left out. It's happened time and time again.
Doesn't that just give you the warm fuzzies?
Paranoia? (Score:2)
Re:Ignorance! (Score:2)
Cellphones are dangerous - proof (Score:2)
I won't stop using my cel phone for sure (Score:4)
I don't see why everyone here is so uptight about cel phones. I read the article, and looks to me like it's just trying to stir up controversy about cel phones. I firmly believe that if they were truly unsafe, the big companies would not have released cel phones to the market.
You know, I've been using my cel all the time for almost a year, and guess what? I haven't died of radiation poisoning, ok! Besides, why worry yourselves with this POTENTIAL radiation damage and POSSIBLE side effects? You're forgetting how advanced and quickly moving our technology is anyway. And even if some minor radiation issue is discovered, I am fully confident that businesses will honestly address it and that medical science will immedietally find a cure for any illnesses or symptoms caused by cel phone usage.
And one more thing I want to know is why do people make such a big deal about using cel phones while driving? I never saw any huge complaints about carphones before, but when they come with cel phones it's all "OH MY GOD YOUR GOING TO CRASH IF YOU USE A CEL PHONE." Well I've been only driving for less than a year, and I can handle driving my Chevy Tahoe while talking on the cel phone quite well. If a 16 year old girl can handle it, I think the people in general are intelligent enough to be able to drive while on the phone. I know a few rare accidents occur because people drive while talking on cel phones, but I'd rather take that risk than risk missing an important call from one of my girlfriends.
I really wonder why the slashdot community has it in for cel phone users and why they're falling for all this muckracking press. Maybe some of you guys just need a life so you can see how important a cel phone actually is
Re:Actually, what we REALLY need... (Score:2)
I think the real question here is, will my kids be able to control the weather by mind control or shoot laser beams out from their eyes if I continue to use a cell phone? And will society fear them?
Attack of the Killer Phones (Score:3)
Actually, this won't happen because these numbers won't mean shit to people.
"Buy our phone, it only has an SAR of 11.53, the competitor's phone is at 12.92 - it'll give you cancer 14% faster!"
We won't know whether the phones are actually killing us until the following has happened:
Headsets don't help! (Score:2)
There's soon going to be a big outcry about second-hand cell phone radiation from people who wouldn't understand the inverse-square law if it bit them in the ass. This is the problem with having a general public that doesn't understand anything more complex than a channel changer (I'm probably giving too much credit--I'd bet the majority of people don't know how to use their VCR remote to get rid of the flashing 12:00). These are the people I'm going to chase down the street with my cell phone
what i would be a good bit more interested in (Score:2)
there was some study or other in canada a few years ago that wound up with data suggesting that the increase in probability of accident caused by using a cell phone was equal to the increase in probability of accident caused by being drunk. I don't remember who held this survey, so i can't testify as to its validity, but if it's real that's pretty damn scary. We were handed a copy of a summary in drivers ed, and it's buried somewhere in the piles of paper in my room. During drivers ed we spent several days doing nothing but watching videos talking about how if we are caught drinking while driving, our liscences are taken away forever and we have trouble getting jobs. That piece of paper was the only thing they gave us telling us not to talk on cell phones while driving, and i was given no indication that the law would be particularly harsh on me were i to cause an accident through careless driving because i was busy with a cell phone, or that the law was taking any steps whatsoever to prevent cell phone usage from causing accidents.
I believe some federal agency recently held a study of cell phone accident statistics that indicated cell phones or other driver-distracting electronics were a factor in 25% of all automobile accidents, or some such horrifying number. I would like to request that anyone who has some actual real information on this post it.
[insert unfocused, offtopic rant here about how last time i checked Houston had the highest auto accident death rate in america, and how the bit of the 610 loop between I-10 and I-59 is pure hell and i have to drive it every day and i'm constantly having my life put in danger by people talking on cell phones who fail to notice even the most basic of things about the very dangerous environment they are in blah blah blah]
The major difference between this kind of thing and cancer from cell phone overuse is that with cell phone cancer, you the user are the only person likely to die as a result..
Anyone with any kind of further information more real than my vague recollections of statistics, please reply.
Re:What about laptops? (Score:2)
No that you mention this there are some problems here. I'm not too worried about the radiation but with the amount of heat this thing is giving off I think I have just fried a few gazillion sperm.
I wonder if the heat effects on balls are more than just temporary.
Radiation effect / proximity (Score:2)
Regardless, everyone can use a headset.
Here's a good summary (with more links) on mobile phone safety [nokia.com]
__________________________________________
Re:It's the number of users (Score:2)
Re:You should all be ashamed. (Score:3)
Lita, no one is being sexist towards Patricia. Rather they have figured out that patricia, whose initals are PMS, is someone's idea of a joke. She is not a 16 year old girl driving a pickup truck and talking on her cellphone, who in her spare time installs debian linux. "She" is someone who messes with linux, reads slashdot a lot, and has decided to come up with a character to annoy people with. No, I am not a sexist who thinks that girls can't hack. Rather there are some (painfully obvious) clues in "her" argument. Take the following quote by "her":
Besides, why worry yourselves with this POTENTIAL radiation damage and POSSIBLE side effects? You're forgetting how advanced and quickly moving our technology is anyway.
No one actually thinks this way, it is a charicature of what we'd like to think the average "stupid american" thinks.
And even if some minor radiation issue is discovered, I am fully confident that businesses will honestly address it and that medical science will immedietally find a cure for any illnesses or symptoms caused by cel phone usage.
This mix of intelligent word use, perfect sentence structure, and totally unbelieveable faith in corporate america to find a cure for cancer is an attempt to create a stereotype character to piss people off. Whoever is writing for patricia is extremely intelligent and has probably fooled a lot of people, including yourself. If patricia really didn't care about potential radiation and side affects, she wouldn't go to so much detail to spell out the threat and then find a stupid way to ignore it. She'd just say "who cares about all that stuff anyway".
Don't feel bad - but be careful being self-righteous.
Patricia- hats off, and keep up the good work. slashdot needs more people with your sense of scale.
Re:Amusing products advertised on Discovery (Score:2)
There ARE effective radation deflection devices sold:
http://www.goaegis.com/
The question is whether the radiation they're deflecting is actually harmful or not.
What we need is... (Score:2)
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Re:Radiation effect / proximity (Score:2)
old mobile bricks, 3 W max @ 900MHz
little phones 0.6 W max @ 900 MHz and 1.9GHz
Both types use lower power levels when near a tower (to conserve batteries). I might be wrong about the power levels for the new pcs phones. They're almost certainly under 1 W to conserve batts.
Ryan
Old and new devices (Score:2)
What about the old cell phones? What about pagers? What about those new Palm VII (which ever one buildin a phone)? What about those 900 MHz home use cordless phone?
Here are some links to related materials found on the web...
Cellular Phone Antennas and Human Health [mcw.edu] by Medical Collage of Wisconsin [mcw.edu]
How a Cell Phone Works [howstuffworks.com] by How Stuff Works [howstuffworks.com].
How a Digital Cell Phone Works [howstuffworks.com] by How Stuff Works [howstuffworks.com].
Is your cell phone killing you? [zdnet.com] from ZDNet [zdnet.com] November 30, 1999.
Cell Phone Antennas & Health FAQs [cs.ruu.nl] from Institute of Information and Computing Sciences [cs.ruu.nl].
Re:But the Question Will Be: How Long Have They Kn (Score:2)
That to me seems the key - it's kind of a Uncertainty Principle of life. You can't live without being affected by the world. If you are affected by the world, your chances of getting cancer increase, because there is some probabiliy, however slight, that just about anything can disrupt a little genetic code here or there.
The real question is, what ARE the probabilities, and who's lying to who about it?
We're all going to die of cancer anyway, AARGH! (Score:4)
Tecno-AO (Score:2)
First of all, they don't claim to block radiation. It would be impossible for a one inch patch to block a signal with a wavelength of about 1ft. What this device claims to do is generate low frequency magnetic fields that somehow reduce the damage to biological systems. They have some research done on chicken embryos to back this up.
Proceedings of first World Congress on the Bioeffects of Electricity and Magnetism. [demon.co.uk] (note that it's sponsored by Tecno-AO)
Tecno-AO "science" [ecolabs.co.uk]
See also here [tecnosphere.co.uk] and here. [tecnosphere.co.uk]
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Oh my god! My laptop is in my lap!!! (Score:2)
Kate
Re:I'll give up my Cel Phone... (Score:2)
Some of us like it that way. I'll get a mobile phone when they cram one in my cold, dead fingers.
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Re: (Score:2)
Free copies (Score:3)
Well, yes, if they want to be seen as a professional scientist and not a greedy bastard.
I mail free copies of my publications to anyone who asks (and people ask) and wouldn't even consider charging anything for it. A few times I've also asked for a copy and every time people have been happy to oblige.
Personally, I'd consider charging money for a copy of your article extremely rude and unprofessional.
Re:Actually, what we REALLY need... (Score:2)
Nowadays, everyone is so worried about these fancy schmancy cell phones causing a little problem in their head when they should be thankful that cell phones are so damn small and efficient.
When I was younger, cell phones were huge, heavy, and lasted about 5 minutes before the batteries needed charging. Each month the phone company didn't need to keep track of our minutes, they just measured how much the tumor on the side of our head grew since the previous month. My friend Eddy 'Lumpy' talked on his cell phone so much that he didn't need a pillow at night, he just slept on the side with his tumor. His tumor was huge and squishy, all the pillow that anyone needs.
Re:But the Question Will Be: How Long Have They Kn (Score:2)
You are talking utter crap.
If you check out the following link: Olive Oil and the Mediterranean Diet [chd-taskforce.de] at the International Taskforce for Prevention of Coronary Heart Disease, then you might learn something. Consensus of opinion is now
"that there is strong evidence that a Mediterranean-style diet, in which olive oil is the principal source of fat, contributes to the prevention of cardio-vascular risk factors"
Try doing some googling before spouting off.