Human ID Chip Implant Prototype Unveiling 301
techfreak writes: "Applied Digital Solutions is set to unveil a working prototype of "Digital Angel", a dime-sized implantable 'microchip' which is powered by muscle movement, this October at an invitation-only event in New York City, two months ahead of the original plan. ADS Chairman Richard Sullivan said the development of the technology has progressed well ahead of schedule. It is said to be the first-ever operational combination of bio-sensor technology and Web-enabled wireless telecommunications linked to global positioning satellite location-tracking systems. Concerns have been raised over personal privacy, but ADS claims that privacy concerns are misplaced, since the device can be turned off by the owner."
When it shouldN'T be turned off... (Score:1)
Then, I have the few other concerns. Since not everyone is tracked all the time (or else, I'd be REALLY mad), then it's a probability that someone could impersonate me. Now why someone would do that except for doing heavy criminal activities?
Also, I guess everyone will start to get the hype of that thing... so gov'ts will want to make this the official ID card (let's say 128 bytes inside the chip), medical insurance is very useful (32 bytes), driver license (32 bytes), employer infos (256 bytes let's be rude), a set of personal IDs (32 places * 32 bytes), and so on and so on and so on. My point being: What about upgrades when this thingie will be a "thing of the past"? I don't want any visible plug "à la" Dune after all... But I don't want to go for my annual upgrade either.
Blah!
Anoying (Score:1)
Re:As a mountaineer... (Score:1)
If you want to be a mountaineer, then get a portable tracking device. Those products are within consumer price range. I don't want to lose my freedom just because YOU want to be tracked.
As far as a baseball bat, it can be used in a bad way toward one person, but this technology is all encompassing. With this, a government could set up a control room and keep tabs on everyone.
Control sucks, especially when you're the white mice.
Re:What about... (Score:1)
Re:Whats the problem? (Score:5)
1. Social Security/Insurance numbers. I don't know about the US but in Canada when it was introduced it was stated that you would never have to give it to anyone except voluntarily. That included income tax and TD-1 (employment taxation form). Now it's mandatory on tax from and it is against the law to take a job and not give your SIN on your TD-1. Certainly it means you can't cheat on your taxes (I'm opposed to cheating on your taxes, btw) and that's good, but it does show that this idea was expanded to be more intrusive than originally devised.
2. Finger printing. I was finger printed as a child to "protect me from being abducted" (how that works I'm not sure, but that's the line they give...) 23 years later, I popped over to my friend's house with a 2 litre bottle of pop to watch movies. I left the empty bottle there. 2 days later he used the bottle to transport gasoline to a building which he burned to the ground. Smart guy he is, he wore gloves. Dumb ass he is, he left the cap there. Did he go to prison? Yes. Did I get arrested, lose my job and $4000 to lawyers first? Yes. Oh yes indeed.
The finger printing thing must work though. I never got abducted as a child....
There is prior art on this (Score:1)
I hope they don't go for a patent. The technology was concieved of and documented by John the Revalator (via divine inspiration) nearly 2000 years ago. Check it out:
He required everyone - great and small, rich and poor, slave and free - to be given a mark on the right hand or on the forehead. And no one could buy or sell anything without that mark, which was either the name of the beast or the number representing his name.
-Revelation 13:16-17
future implications? (Score:1)
-ParadoX-
Know only what I am, not what I may be.
Re:So this is with humanity shall be reduced to? (Score:1)
Re:This is not new (Score:1)
My Cat is more wired than Kevin Warwick [kevinwarwick.org.uk].
At least he can automatically open catflaps.
Re:biological side-effects (Score:1)
You know what they say about paranoia... (Score:1)
I think it's healthy, actually, that any mention of a device like this hurls up great visceral chunks of dislike from all and sundry. I don't generally like the amount of pure FUD that flies off of Slashdot these days, but it is heartening to see at least a few people willing to say that they'd fight something like this (Saying and doing are two different things- but it's a good start.)
Implanted trackers are a disturbing concept, no matter how they're presented.
--Perianwyr Stormcrow
Re:Wired had something about implants (Score:1)
Oh yes. Kevin Warwick. He's usually just a nutter, but in this case he did raise some concerns about privacy and civil liberties issues.
However, check out Kevin Warwick Watch [kevinwarwick.org.uk] as a guide to just how seriously you want to take what he says.
Re:A Dime? (Score:1)
Clarification: that was smallest, as in SIZE, as opposed to smallest, as in VALUE.
For those not in the USA: There are 100 cents in a dollar; a dime is worth 10 cents, a nickle is worth 5 cents, and a penny is worth 1 cent. But, a nickle or a penny is physically larger than a dime. Has to do with the fact that at one time, a dime was made of pure silver - to make these other coins out of silver would make a coin too small to be practical, so they were made of less-valuable metals (copper, zinc, and nickle).
Sorry for the confusion!
Re:not good (Score:1)
Those concerned about privacy should read this excellent book:
It's None of Your Business [amazon.com] by Larry Sontag
There is NO law that requires a person to be numbered, and it IS possible to live, work, drive, without being another numbered serf.
Re:not good (Score:1)
"It's not the apocalypse, it's just a pain in the arse!"
As for privacy issues raised elsewhere in this thread... the suggestion seems to be that the criminal version will not have an off-switch, the civilian version will have. For criminals, this is not much harder to circumvent than the current wristbands and such, but might provide more useful information.
For civilians, there are a few more questions: how can you tell the off-switch *really* works? Is someone keeping track of when and where you turn your implant off? What's being done with the other data gathered?
Never underestimate the value of lots of seemingly unimportant information - pattern analysis can give answers a single item will never tell you. Phone monitoring for instance - what do you think the resulting web would look like if you linked together all the callers who, during phone calls to each others, used phrases such as "not over the phone"?
Ramblings on the merging of man and machine... (Score:1)
Not too thrilled about the whole implanted GPS tracking thingy, but having an implanted chip powered by human muscle motion intrigues me a bit. Though it seems a bit low-tech to me; I mean we've already developed machines that can derive power from sugars, meats, and other foods; why not have implants use the same fuel we use?
How about going in the opposite direction, people that can live off electricity? Actually, that's somewhat descriptive of people with pacemakers...
Mankind has already been engineering, customizing, and "building" ourselves for years, it's just that so far it's been largely through biochemical (ie: vaccines, food additives) or mental (ie: schooling, mass media) methods. We may be more comfortable with those means, and they do have positive benefits, but they've proved throughout history that they can be just as harmful as whatever we can dream of for technological augmentation. Plagues, biochemical warfare, brainwashing, hate propaganda, etc. Nothing new, nothing new under the sun.
Nanotech blurs, and may even one day completely erase, any distinctions between technological and biochemical human augmentation. Many chemical processes are essentially just interactions between shell electrons; what of a nanobot that can simulate different configurations of electron shells? A multitude of them would be something like a multi-purpose chemical. And what is the difference between a virus and a nanobot other that whether it was designed by the whims of nature or man? After all, neither is considered to be alive.
In an effort to be natural, people act unnaturally. In acting unnaturally, people are natural.
Och, I still can't sleep. -_-
Professional opinion. (Score:1)
I work in the Biotechnology industry. There's no question that man and machine will fuse at some point, relatively soon in fact. I agree with the privacy issues - privacy is paramount and we should not allow new technologies, no matter how stunning, to interfere with it.
However, I have a big issue with your fear of integrating technology into human/other organisms. This has been happening for quite a while now, with Pacemakers, artificial limbs/plates for bone correction and assistance, hearing aids, etc. The fact is that with new technologies, such as electronic hearts, eyes, livers, etc, we will be able to boost the human lifespan by several decades. Lipespans of 160 will be common. As technology improves, 200 won't be unheard of.This isn't a new phenomenon though, it's been on the cards since the 1800s when machines started to assist humans with menial functions. In the 1950s Computers started taking over some of the "thinking" functions such as Intelligence/encryption/military and later business and of course number crunching, and now machines are going to be making their way into our bodies. This isn't an unusual leap and people in the Biotech industry have been predicting it for ages. Fact is, when people get to 130 and still have a good 40 years to live - with perfect vision, hearing, a perfect heart, etc - they probably won't be complaining. Well, maybe some of them will.
In conclusion, I don't think that people should be forced to implement technologies on themselves - and I don't think that any technologies that will be integrated so closely into our lives should we choose to implement them should invade our privacy in any way. But to bash such technologies for "de-humanizing" us is as stupid as bashing railroads and punchcard loomsRe:Main worry is totalitarian regimes, not compani (Score:5)
Sorry to burst your bubble, but misuse in the land of the free (as long as they pay) and home of the brave IS an issue. Some lobbygroup will get this signed into law, make it mandatory to chip your kids when they go to kindergarten ('they might get kidnapped, so now we can track them'), you insurance will mandate that you get one ('so the emergency service will be able to find you'), etc. Of course, the insurance company (part of a big megacorp) now knows where you are, and when, and starts selling 'anonimized' profiles to marketing firms ('we are concerned with your privacy, if you do not want this then please fill out this 10-page form in Assirian glyphs'). Your kids will get used to the idea that they have this chip inside them, they might even get some small benefits from it ('people with ID-chip through the fast lane, those without show your passports please'), so they probably will think it 'natural' that they can be tracked everywhere.
Meanwhile, in another part of town, J.Edgar Hoover's great-grandson has risen to the top of the F.B.I, and takes up where his predecessor left off. When later questioned by the Senate, he states that 'it was imperative for national security that these people were tracked down'. Although there was no conclusive evidence that those people ever did something wrong, they were put away anyhow, since national security is a serious matter, especially when your own position is at stake.
But no, this will never happen in the US of A. Right?
Re:So what's new? (Score:1)
So soon after the SETI Accelerator hoax? (Score:1)
Re:There is prior art on this (Score:1)
Re:A Dime? (Score:1)
Re:How to turn it off - X-Acto knife! (Score:2)
Oh, I see you've got a knife and I can only guess why you brought along your brain trust.
Got any anaesthesia?
Wack!
[fade to black, then our hero wakes up]
Officer, someone mugged me and cut out my chip!
No officer I didn't steal that mp3-- someone is framing me -- please don't put me in jail.
Re:Why an implant? (Score:1)
Bruce Willis did it in 12 Monkeys (a very good Terry Gilliam film) by pulling out his wisdom teeth where it was located.
The only time I'd see it used is on paroled criminals. Or, as a better way to enforce Megan's Law*, have alarms and sirens go off if a pædophile made his way into a community.
*-for our Non-US readers, Megan's Law requires paroled sex offenders to announce to their new neighbors of their past crimes. Or something like that.
Not for use in authentication (Score:2)
I heard an insightful comment at Rootfest last June. We were talking about biometric authentication methods. One of the attendees mentioned that it would be very very nasty if someone could steal the authentication token your biometric data generated. Unlike passwords, you cannot change your fingerprint every 3 months. I'd hate to see someone with a scanner steal your implant's code and then use it to authenticate him/herself.
-B
Not Quiet the End (Score:1)
Or so they say... (Score:1)
In actuality, I see a lot of uses for this product, but I rarely trust major corporations to be looking out for my interests when my interests are not in the best interest of that corporation's bottom line. This reminds me of an article a friend of mine wrote on the Technocracy [tripod.com].
The most amazing thing about this kind of technology is it is actually being pursued. While the benefits are reasonably obvious, the potential for misuse is extreme and a strong majority of dystopic novels begin with this kind of advance. I want to affirm that I am not saying this shouldn't be pursued. I like the idea of never being 'lost'.
I just can't wait for the first 'signal masks' to come out, which relay your signal to a different location. That way when someone goes out to rob a bank, they have an airtight alibi (my Angel location log clearly shows I was at home that night.)
Re:Whats the problem? (Score:1)
case 1: 35yo swm in Middle-of-nowhere, Kansas
case 2: 19yo swf in the Bronx, NY
which is why some people might actually want it... kinda like a home security system for yourself. Although I don't like the idea, it may be seen as beneficial to a large group of people.
_____
Re:seems iffy (Score:3)
GPS handheld units are cell phone size because most people like to have a screen of certain size to look at. GPS-on-a-chip systems are commercially available now and somebody (Casio?) already sells a consumer GPS watch. Power requirements -- I don't know. If you take away all the extras and leave just the basics -- signal receiving circuitry and minimal calculating capabilities -- the drain might be very small.
Why aren't there lots of simple implantable medical monitors that monitor on a much smaller scale?
"Simple" and "implantable" is a contradiction in terms. Implanting stuff is complicated, expensive and scary. Often not necessary, as well.
Why do this in humans first, when there are so many applications in animals and property tracking?
It is already being done on a wide scale for animal and property tracking. Not implant, though, because it's much simpler and cheaper to put a collar onto an animal than to perform a surgical procedure.
Even though devices are less regulated than drugs, what about human testing?
This IS human testing 8-)
In any case, given that it's very easy to block the GPS signal (e.g. go inside a building or under heavy tree cover), I doubt that this technology is useful for arbitraty tracking of people. I think that what they have in mind is more like tracking people inside highly classified buldings.
Although the day a government will insist on implanting a chip in me as a precondition for a job will be the day I move on to friendlier shores...
Kaa
Re:Whats the problem? (Score:1)
Yeah, right (Score:1)
-
Only those who need to hide something, are afraid of this technology. Honest law-abiding people do not need to hide anything from the police. Therefore, people who oppose this technology are mostly criminals.
Currently we have the technology to track cars. And what are they planning in UK? To make it mandatory to install tracking device in all new cars, to allow police to track traffic violations.If this people-tracking technology were to come public, there would soon be all kinds of "reasons" to force people to use them. For example:
Revelation (Score:1)
How soon before people start being killed for their digital IDs? Even for those who don't believe the bible, consider how lucrative a target for muggers this will be, if you can easily gain access to someone's money and possesions just by killing them and extracting a tiny piece of kit from their skull.
This is perhaps the worst idea I have heard in a long, long time.
Why an implant? (Score:2)
Re:Thank goodness it's patented! (Score:1)
"It will be readily apparent to one skilled in the art that various substitutions and modifications can be made without departing from the spirit of the invention."
Re:Did you ever consider... (Score:1)
Re:seems iffy (Score:1)
I wouldn't worry about animals being tested before humans, though - ADS is acquiring Destron Fearing [destronfearing.com], a company whose business is tracking and identification of pets and livestock.
This stuff is pretty scary, though; new moms - take your little ones home from the hospital as soon as you can! The suits will be tagging everybody they can find once these things are operable.
Re:Why an implant? (Score:1)
Seriously, they do have ankle (and other similar devices) now, but the problem is they have ot get caught to have it put on. It is not gaurenteed that the person will keep it on.
With this chip they can now implant all crimals. Turn it on when they need to. I noticed they were vague on who would be going to this invitation only event. I also have a major problem with it. It can be turn on externally by anyone else!!!! Notice how they phrased the the sentences saying it can by turned off by the user. They intentionally seperated that from the paragraph above where they said it can be turned o by a ground station or the user. They also didn't say how the user could turn it off. Would we have to buy a $2000 unit to turn it off? They would be bad for a lot of people!
There is too much I don't like about the chip. Big brother can now be watching when ever they want! Privacy just took a big step backwards!
Not Vague at all! (Score:2)
Anything that CAN be turned off CAN also be set so the "switch" is disabled. First prisoners, then parolees, then sex offenders, then members of militias, then dissidents, then anyone and everyone else.
Go NOW and rent the old James Coburn movie: The President's Analyst. Then get scared.
/(o\ I'm not a medievalist - I just play one on weekends!
Clarification and Information (Score:2)
1. This will eventually be mandatory and The Man will track us wherever we go!
This seems to be the chief conspiracy theory. Let's think about this for a moment. What percentage of the voting public would desire or permit the government to mandate implanted tracking devices? If somehow the evil government broke away from the people and started trying to force this upon its people, how many would take up arms against it? I WOULD. I may be trying to speak in defense of this project here (only because there's an overwhelmingly uninformed body against it at the moment), but I would certainly fight any attempt at mandating tracking devices in our bodies. This is just stupid to even consider.
2. The devices can communicate with satellites and track us all with GPS!
Another poster mentioned this, but he was quickly rebuffed by another uninformed poster, but do you really think we have the technology to shrink down a fully functional GPS receiver into a device the size of a grain of rice? The smallest GPS receiver I've ever seen was built into a wristwatch, and it was the bulkiest watch I've ever seen in my life. The best we can do is something the size of about 3 AA batteries, and you've still gotta have a good antenna and a clear view of the sky for it to work. What they're saying by linking the devices up to GPS technology is the same sort of "GPS tracking" they're planning on building into your phones: conventional base-station triangulation linked against known GPS information.
3. All of the RF radiation from these things will kill us, like our cell phones are!
Do you really think a rice-sized device is going to put out as much RF energy as your cell phone? This thing is powered off of what little energy it can get from muscle movement. Have you also noticed how HOT your cell phone gets pumping out all that energy? Putting out 750mw of power from a grain of rice will cook your flesh quite effectively. I'll talk more about this topic below.
4. Why do these tracking devices need to be implanted, anyway?
READ THE PAGE! The primary use for these things is for BIOMETRIC SENSING. Location is simply a side-effect and a nifty other purpose. They specifically say on their site that the biometric sensing devices are meant to be implanted or bonded close to the body SO THAT IT CAN COLLECT BIOMETRIC DATA. These things aren't about tracking the human population, they're about things that are legitimately useful. Do you really think a company is going to be very successful marketing an implanted people tracking device?
I seriously doubt there is going to be a significant "global network" capable of receiving transmissions from these devices such as what you're seeing with cell phones. The devices are small and extremely low-power, so they can't transmit far, and they were built for biometrics sensing. I don't have any more information from you, but calling on my meager yet sufficient store of COMMON SENSE, I can figure out that they are planning on using these things inside buildings, hospitals perhaps, or when out of doors, "base stations" would be located on mobile vehicles, which would drive around, listening for signals it's looking for and collecting the data/location.
This makes these devices quite useful for things like hospital patient monitoring, lost children, pets and endangered animals, since the base station is either positioned near the devices, or can be relocated in small area to search.
This does not make these devices useful for these stupid human implant tracking device conspiracy theories.
Can we please use a little more common sense and think through some of this stuff before we go frothing at the mouth about all of the phantom evils this new technology spawns?
Re:Not Vague at all! (Score:1)
/(o\ I'm not a medievalist - I just play one on weekends!
Re:Ramblings on the merging of man and machine... (Score:1)
How about going in the opposite direction, people that can live off electricity?
I've always considered the idea of putting chlorophyl (sp?) in skin a nice thought. Feeling hungry? Drink a glass of water and sunbathe for an hour :-)
Re:oh poor meeee!!im christian and oh so opressed! (Score:1)
this is an intelligent grounds for discussing FACTUAL information...and from experience, I'm learned that much of religion (not all) is neither factual nor very intelligent...most of it is ancient nonsensical beliefs that people cling to like a life preserver to keep from sinking in an ocean of reality (I'm mainly decrying christianity here, for I wouldn't be so arrogant as to decry all of religion, many of which I know nothing of)
Re:Calm down! (Score:2)
Try being yourself same average bloke in, for instance, an oppressive state like Burma, and see how much the government enjoy knowing what the "average bloke" is doing, and how much they relish the chance to know exacly what average things you're getting up to - so they can then make you their idea of average.
I say Burma but it could be any number of countries with oppresive regimes.
You're comments are dangerously naive.
If it... (Score:1)
http://wwww.worthynews.com/news-features/digita
Did you ever consider... (Score:1)
Track by GPS? Sure. Right. And your TV is watching *you*. GPS is just as one-way.
Web-enabled bio-electric-powered? Sure.
Show me a precedent. Show me a big, clunky prototype that does *any* of these things. New technologies do not start out as 'dime-sized' implants. They start out as a pile wires and an ATX case. But these guys go straight to the finished product with *noone* on slashdot having heard whispers?
This guy is trying to bilk law enforcement and govenment agencies of as much as he can.
BTW - This isn't the same guy who was selling the GPS-tracked bracelets a year or two ago, is it? Sure smells like the same vapourware...
Ok, now prove me wrong...
Cheers,
Jim in Tokyo
Re:Whats the problem? (Score:1)
Will this ID Chip be compatible with other types made by other companies? Will there be a monopoly on these chips? What is the failure rate? Will I have to sign a waver of liability if the chip causes me some harm?
I understand this chip is in the very early phases. I also understand there is a need to have a greater sense of security in financial transactions. But I'll tell you what the best security is...getting to know your bank personnel.
I don't need high technology to guarantee my security because I bank at such a small institution that I know all the tellers, the receptionist, the loan manager, and the office manager. If I call and want to do something irregular, I get passed to the receptionist who knows me and we gab for a little while.
Is it fool-proof. Nope. No security mechanism is, and that is another potential problem with this Digital Angel. It makes the wearer believe they are performing secure transactions when nothing is 100% secure.
The benefits don't outweigh the costs. Period. They've got to make it cure cancer before I'd go that route.
Re:A Dime? (Score:2)
I don't have a ruler, but here are some measurements comparing to a pin header I have on my desk. Accuracy +/- 5%
Quarter, $0.25, 0.95 inches, 24 mm
Dime, $0.10, 0.70 inches, 18mm
Nickel, $0.05, 0.85 inches, 22mm
Penny, %0.01, 0.75 inches, 19 mm
CDROM hole, 0.60 inches, 15 mm
Ryan
Leashes suck. (Score:1)
Re:biological side-effects (Score:1)
Briefly, in one study of 250000 cell phone subscribers they found no mortality difference between hand held cell phone use and automobile mounted cell phones (hand helds have the transmitter close to your head, car mounted have them further away). They went a bit further and looked for a correlation between duration of cell phone use and mortality and did find one: use of a cell phone while driving did result in more accidents.
Animal studies where they were subjected to radiation of the frequency and modulation of cell phone also yielded no correlation between cell phone usage and cancer.
Read the article though, its pretty good (as Spectrum usually is)
Re:not good (Score:2)
Yes indeed, but I fear that's only the tip of the iceberg. We should question new technology, first and foremost. Not accept it blindly, look at what the automobile running fossil fuels has done to our environment, now we are so dependent on it that change is hard to come by.
Just wait till the day you have an implant that tracks your location, monitors your health, keeps your medical, dental, financial and criminal records right on that chip! Pet animals like dogs already get ID implants in them in the area that I live in. Can anyone see it's apparent benefits? You go to a new doctor he scans your medical records right in from the implant or whatever.. He doesn't have to call anybody up and get a faxed copy of it. Or what about financial? Do away with cash and just have a balance on your implant. You walk up to the cash register and bingo you paid for your dinner. Oh and lets not forget you can't lose any money now, can't get robbed and the government doesn't have to worry about counterfeit. But that is scary part, because you and your past will go with you everywhere. Have some bad credit 20 years in the past, should be gone right? Nope it's still sitting on the little implant. But I think it will be so appealing to most people at first they will accept it without question, maybe even embrace it. Big brother will be watching.
I'm not afraid of technology, it has helped humans tremendously but this is one technology I'd rather pass on.
We are the Borg! (Score:1)
Repent! (Score:1)
What about... (Score:5)
--
The Market for the Implant... (Score:2)
The Government...
Now, if you can just turn the bloody thing off, what is the point of it as a tracking and identification device? I mean sure, they designed a switch in it to be able to turn it off, but in practice, will that switch be available? If the government decides to start using these for any purpose, you can expect that it will be implanted in criminals.
WOuldn't it be wonderful if every person who ever broke a law had an implant like this. I mean background checks would be simple, just wave a little wand in front of somebody and if it beeps you don't hire them because they are an ex-con. And of course you make it a heinous crime to remove the implant. Who can argue this logic, I mean criminals are bad and evil, right? And as we all know, all criminals are habitual offenders for life. No matter how much time they serve, are they really ever to be trusted again? Of course not!
*SIGH*
Why don't they just change the name from "Digital Angle" to "The Mark of the Beat" and be honest with us?
---
Technology is not the problem, people are (Score:3)
Carrying the kitchen sink while inching up a cliff face not only slows you down, it reduces your life expectancy. So, I don't want to lug around a cellphone, GPS, PDA, cash, credit cards, organ donor card, maps, compass, pen, torch, radio, or altimeter (:-).
Instead, I slap a couple of DataPatches on my arms and one on my forehead; they look kinda like bandaids. The one on my forehead provides most of the clever stuff: not only a useful amount of computing power, but also micropower transmissions to the dumb receptors I've had implanted in my retinal and ear nerve stems. Triggered by blink codes, I get all the info I need superimposed on my regular vision. I suppose this is a descendent of those crappy old head-up displays.
The DataPatches on my arms do the brute force work, as there's a large amount of excess energy on the surface of muscles that's easy to tap. Body data is gathered both locally and from the forehead patch transmissions, and external data is gathered from GPS and terrestrial radio transponders. This is all available to me on my A/V channels, but in addition, the arm patches store up power for occasional long-distance data bursts with the help of additional power-pump amplifiers in the heels of my shoes. As a result, I'm not only safer by being better informed, I'm also safer because my progress monitor a thousand miles away at home is keeping tabs on how I'm doing. And should something unfortunate happen, well, it knows what to do.
Now then, where is the "not good" in that scenario? There is none, because I'm in control of the technology, not somebody else. It's working for me, extending my control over the environment, helping me to survive and to have fun.
The problem isn't technology, but the people that might use it to gain power over you. That has always been the case and I guess it'll always be so, but that's not a reason for labelling technology as "bad". In that direction lies Luddism. Take it further and it's the end of Man's progress towards the stars.
Re:Clarification and Information (Score:2)
"What percentage of the voting public would desire or permit the government to mandate implanted tracking devices?"
What percentage of the voting public (now down to what? 30%?) has any say in what politicians do anyway, these days? Where have you been for the last 30 years? Politicians pass laws all the time that no one has had any significant control over...
It doesn't have to be mandatory: there's one idiot farther down the page who wants to put one in his 3 year-old kid! What does she have to say about it? What would you have to say about it if your surgeon implanted one while you were under anesthesia? It doesn't have to be mandatory to be bad, for those who like their privacy and their autonomy.
"Do you really think a rice-sized device is going to put out as much RF energy as your cell phone?"
Sheesh.. from the actual web page:
"All these components will be combined into a unit the size of a dime."
You continue:
"Location is simply a side-effect and a nifty other purpose.."
A side effect? If you consider being able to be tracked, real-time, via a radio-based network a "side effect" you're 'way more trusting than I am, or than the majority of posters here..
"I seriously doubt there is going to be a significant "global network" capable of receiving transmissions from these devices such as what you're seeing with cell phones."
Well, I seriously believe you'd buy into anything anyone wanted to put over on you...
Why, you probably even trust your government!
t_t_b
--
I think not; therefore I ain't®
Re:Technology is not the problem, people are (Score:2)
Cellphone, GPS, PDA, maps, compass, radio, and altimeter could all be one device you stick on your belt. Probably the cash and cards too. Probably would use an expansion card for the uber-PDA device for the GPS, compass and altimeter. This way this very expensive collection of devices doesn't peel off when you scratch an itch on your forehead, and it lets you loan it to others as well.
Haven't we heard that before? (Score:2)
Main worry is totalitarian regimes, not companies (Score:2)
The main worry is not misuse in the US, since there is enormous media/public scrutiny. Technology like this in the hands of China/Burma/N.Korea or any of America's puppet dictatorships is the dream-come-true of totalitarian regimes, who can do whatever they want. Today, dictators are having a difficult time controlling people yearning for greater freedom and able to evade their rulers. It will be more difficult to avoid being tracked if you are a human cursor wandering around a screen on a govt. computer.
Not sure what kind of business plan this company has. Will American companies - wary of lawsuits - really implant thousands of their employees with a chip? Who will buy this thing?
OTOH, think of how much trouble China or Saudi Arabia is having tracking dissidents or people released from prison. Pop one in, and you can say 'Come to pappa' anytime you like.
w/m
Re:yikes!!! (Score:2)
e-commerce security
Remember the Intel PIII ID number? Same thing, just now it identifies the person, not the computer. If they can identify both the orderer and his location via his implant, then they can't get many fake orders, can they?
The Power of Myth (Score:3)
Something like this might fly in Europe but not in the U.S. One of our deep seated myths(as has been posted many times in this discussion) is the 666/number of the beast myth. People have been saying for years how the antichrist will take over the government and force everyone to be branded with a number(barcode) - if you refuse the mark you will not be able to buy or sell anything and therefore will perish.
Regardless of any advantages a digital implant might bring, this prevalent myth will destroy its chances in the U.S. It will be interesting to see if it takes off in Europe while the U.S. denies this technology because of its superstition.
Personally, I side with the fundamentalists and zealots on this issue. A digital tracking device is just too much of an invasion of privacy and is subject to too much abuse to make it worthwhile.
Re:oh poor meeee!!im christian and oh so opressed! (Score:2)
Not true. Not true at all.
First off, I've read a couple of your other posts, and I do have to indicate that as far as Christians go, I have to commend you for being relatively unobjectionable.
Since you appear to be one of the few people I have ever encountered who identifies both as a Christian, and then actually appears to "live and let live", you are a special individual.
I must assure you, though, having a Baptist family living next door and a Catholic church across the street, Christianity is a family of religions that seems to promote even less tolerance and freedom of opinion than even Islam.
Well you know, back in the Roman Empire, we were rounded up and fed to lions. (Hey if everyone else is so focused on long past persecutions I'll join them)Don't even go there. More wars, violent deaths, and tortures have occurred on the basis of Christianity than all the other religions of the world have caused.
While a few thousand people were turned to Colisseum Cat Chow for the entertainment of the Romans, things did change shortly after that.
The fall of the Roman Empire gave rise to one even more dangerous and more powerful: The Roman Catholic Empire.
Throughout the middle ages, Jews, Wiccans and people of other religious denominations that have predated Christianity by millenia were persecuted, forced to convert, and if they didn't, were killed off by the thousands.
It continued for a long time after that: Ever hear of the Spanish Inquisition? The Salem Witch Trials? Hell, at Salem, you didn't even have to be a Wiccan to be burned as a witch.
And then, Christian vs. Christian bloodshed runs rampant in the world today. My own family is from Northern Ireland, and when I was a child, my own grandfather used to tell me stories about how he used to shoot Catholics for fun. How different are Catholics and Protestants? How different can they be? Don't they share the same god?
To this day, Christians are the most intolerant people in the world. Middle of the road average-Joe Christians are programmed by the church to think homosexuals are going to hell. There's enough evidence now that Helen Keller could see that gay people are a normal part of the population. And yet Christianity drives thousands of gay teenagers to kill themselves every year, because of their "abnormal lifestyle". I think every red-blooded man can agree that there is no lifestyle more abnormal than celibacy, and yet the Catholic Church demands that of their priests. Little hypocrisy, anyone?
Even more hypocrisy: Doesn't the bible tell us that God doesn't like it when we worship other deities? Isn't Christianity, which is basically the worship of a dead carpenter named Jesus Christ, completely ignoring that? Or, because it's His Son, does that make it okay? Add to that the Catholic affinity for the Virgin (ie. didn't get caught in the bushes with Joseph's brother) Mary and all the Saints just add to the mess? And when people bow to the Pope, aren't they worshipping him? Christianity seems to be, in reality, about as polythiestic as the Pagan religion of the Vikings, or as those of the ancient Greco-Roman peoples.
So, forgive me for calling you on your little blurb about how many Christians died during the Roman Empire. Perhaps if we finally threw off the shackles of organized religion and tried just being nice to each other, humanity could enjoy a far greater standard of living.
Come the afterlife, if there is one, I'm sure that I'll be okay. If God is rejecting people from Heaven because they're Jewish instead of Baptist or Hindu because instead of Catholic, the crapshoot is so great that you'd never know what religion to believe in order to be allowed in. In other words, ask to be buried in Bermuda shorts. Or, better still, get cremated to help acclimatize yourself. But, if there is a God, I have faith that He would be more concerned about what kind of life you led, not who/how you worshipped.
Re:So this is with humanity shall be reduced to? (Score:2)
Well, that's one more pacemaker for the rest of us.
Re:Main worry is totalitarian regimes, not compani (Score:2)
1) Similarly, no company can force employees to take a drug test. It's purely optional, but if you won't follow this simple request, you're obviously a troublemaker and (insert multimegacorp's name here) would just as soon not have you around
2) No website can force you to accept cookies, but if you turn cookies off, you lock yourself out of a good number of websites.
3) No check-cashing storefront, health club, or other membership-based enterprise can force you to surrender your state or federal government-issued identification, but is fully authorized to decline your business if you refuse to comply.
Useful Stuff you can do with impants. (Score:2)
Re:Clarification and Information (Score:2)
For the record, you're the one that started the personal attacks, not me.
What percentage of the voting public (now down to what? 30%?) has any say in what politicians do anyway, these days?
How many letters have you written to your congressmen? This attitude quite frankly sucks. The people you elected to those positions are there to be your voice in the government. If you're really buying into that whole "politicians are working for big companies against their constituents", perhaps you need to vote somebody better into office or write a letter or two.
Personally, I don't buy it. Every letter I've written to my congressmen has been replied to personally, with his own thoughts and information. Work WITH them, not AGAINST them.
Sheesh.. from the actual web page:
Stop nit-picking. If you disagree with something I've said, by all means present an argument. The size difference between a grain of rice and a dime makes no difference as far as my argument is concerned. From their press release [digitalangel.net]:
I'm sure different feature packages will result in a device that's a different size.
A side effect? If you consider being able to be tracked, real-time, via a radio-based network a "side effect" you're 'way more trusting than I am, or than the majority of posters here..
I can't tell if you really don't understand what I was saying or are deliberately trying to misunderstand.
All I was saying is that their research has been focused on providing biometric data to nearby base stations. The fact that they now have a small device capable of transmitting data now means that they can use it as a location device. They did not approach this research with a lets-track-the-public mind-set. That's what I meant by "side-effect". It was not the focus of their research, but it's certainly a marketable feature.
Well, I seriously believe you'd buy into anything anyone wanted to put over on you...
Again, if you want to refute my statement, by all means let's hear your argument. Remember that cell phones put out a rather large amount of RF energy and get very hot and use up a lot of electricity doing so. Scale that down to something the size of a dime or a grain of rice, and the number of required cell-phone-type towers goes up by at least 1 or 2 orders of magnitude. The costs involved would be prohibitive.
Altzheimer's. (Score:2)
for these devices.
The device... (Score:2)
By simply ceasing all electrical activity in the muscles, no doubt. No problem!
not good (Score:4)
The idea of it drawing it's power from it's host is probably the most interesting part of the article, but I think there would be a lot more beneficial uses for it (medical analysis for example) than creating a worldwide human tracking system.
--
Re:Clarification and Information (Score:2)
Your articles seem to focus around what could be done with this technology, not around what will be done. How many times in the last 50 years have we seen a new piece of technology that could be misused to destroy the lives and privacy of everyone in the country? How many times has that actually happened? Thanks, but if I read another article about how we should reject this technology because they will start carrying serial numbers with '666' in them, I'm going to vomit.
Stop judging things based on what COULD happen. If you're worried that your evil government is going to mandate that these things be implanted, perhaps it's time you moved to a new country or replaced the one you have.
Surreal (Score:2)
That's, like, the understatement of the century? Christ, this sounds like something out of 1984! This is the kind of news I would expect to read in the Onion!
"What a waste it is to lose one's mind. Or not to have a mind is being very wasteful. How true that is"
Re:The Power of Myth (Score:2)
Fer instance, you believe, as many others do, that there will be a 'one-world' government. But think about it. The 'mark of the beast' technology is already here, ready to be deployed. Do you really see the U.S. giving up its sovreignty in the next 10 or 20 years? I just don't see it happenning. Not to mention that the original prophets had never even heard of the western hemisphere. Their final government was really more a modern version of the Roman Empire(city with seven hills). I've seen a few end-of time interpretations that claim the antichrist govt. will form out of the European Union - a sort of Hitler or Napoleon on steroids.
The thing is, if you go by a strict interpretation, you are almost certainly going to be wrong and you are setting yourself up for disappointment when things don't go as you planned and you find out you are not the perfect Christian soldier you thought yourself to be.
Its your character and your faith that matter, not your interpretation of prophecy. Developing these will help you far more than trying to divine the future.
yikes!!! (Score:4)
"an array of beneficial potential applications: provide a tamper-proof means of locating and identifying individuals for e-business and e-commerce security"
what the FUCK does that mean? any way i interpret that, it sounds pretty freakin scary. are they talking about tagging employees or customers?
- isaac =)
biological side-effects (Score:2)
I don't want to nuke myself!
Disclaimer: I know that there aren't any proofen side effects of cell phone radiation (exept the minimal temperature increase of 0.1 deg C) - but, hey, there's also no proof that it is harmless!
Maori
Re:Why an implant? (Score:2)
This is not new (Score:3)
See the ZDNet article here [zdnet.co.uk] or Slashdot article here [slashdot.org] or the original academic text
here [rdg.ac.uk].
These first uses were to do with intelligent buildings though, for just positional and indentification info, rather than any form of biological monitoring.
beta test it on politicians (Score:2)
lame quickies... (Score:5)
Will people that work out a lot have Strong ARM chips?
Imagine if Microsoft wrote the firmware for these things?
"Hey man it's cool, I run windows! Oh crap, the left side of my body has just gone numb..."
It probably doesn't really work (Score:2)
If the body-powered generator thing really worked, it would be immediately useful for the pacemaker industry. But they don't mention that application.
Scary world Scenarios (Score:3)
Scenario one:
You post a piece of code on a crypto-enthusiast site. 30 minutes later your implant is turned on (remember the on you got for being busted for pot being in the car) and 30 minutes after that the happy little NSA black van picks you up.
Scenario two:
You're walking downtown, scratching the still stinging itch from your implant. You didn't want it, but it was required before would hire you. After all you are on the helpdesk staff, and you have to be reachable at all times. Yes, you have a pager, and a satellite phone, but this is just the next logical progression. Besides it's for your safety... at least that's what the company literature said...
Scenario Three:
You move into this lovely little gated community, it's like a little slice of heaven. You meet all the neighbors, and ask they how they be soon unconcerned about their children and they breezily reply that they're all 'chipped'. Traceable, watched and safe. You fret a little bit and finally decide to do it, after the HeavenGate (tm) community you live in is offering to help offset the cost, and nothing is more important then little Jimmy's safety. Then one day it happens, Jimmy doesn't come home. Frantic, you call the Gate Police, and they tell you not to worry, he's probably somewhere playing. They'll activate his chip and bring him home. Hours pass. There is a knock at the door. It's the gated police. But no Jimmy. Just a ziplock bag with the chip, and a ransom note. After all what good does the chip do the kidnapper after he's used it to locate your children?
Re:HOWTO: Jam GPS (Score:2)
The "harmonics" you're describing are less than a 10th of the wavelength of the GPS frequency you're naming, and the fact that they're only a few MHz apart tells me that they are not any appreciable fraction of the main frequency (+/- the intermediate(s)). Harmonics typically sit at nice friendly fractions of intermediate frequencies +/- the primary frequency. Things like 1/2, 1/4, 5/8, not 6/101.
The power output is another thing. I have never seen a receiver that was capable of broadcasting intermediate frequencies more than a few feet. To encompass a city block, you'd need to be transmitting with a walkie-talkie amount of power -on frequency-. If you're thinking harmonics and intermediate frequencies here, the power output has to go up exponentially. I can't imagine any receiver transmitting that kind of RF energy and passing FCC inspection.
Re:A Dime? (Score:2)
Mycroft
How to turn it off - X-Acto knife! (Score:4)
Hence, the criminal disappears.
Now as for other applications, like tracking livestock, lost pets, missing children, medical monitoring, yes, these have some potential societal benefits.
---
Re:Clarification and Information (Score:2)
I don't think that there's any sinister plans made for this technology; nor do I think that Social Security numbers are sinister. However, I think that the eventual abuse of biometric and positional tracking devices would be inevitable, even if the abusers had the best intentions.
As for the use of technology to destroy privacy...I submit to you wiretaps, corporate email monitoring, libel suits for messages intended to be private, and web sites set up to track the names and addresses of doctors who perform abortions. All of these, and many other applications of modern technology, have destroyed many lives, invaded the privacy of countless others, and generally reduced us to a state of either perpetual low-level paranoia or dumb acceptance.
It may be true that there is not a single piece of privacy-invading technology that we cannot live without. However, in this day and age, you leave a fingerprint of data in every action you take that utilizes anything more high-tech than a quarter.
fingerprinting children... (Score:2)
What's interesting about your situation is, you have proof that the fingerprints were actually collected and held by security forces. Hmm....
New Urban Legend (Score:3)
This guy I know, went to Vegas, and met this really hot babe. He takes her back to his room, thinking he's going to get lucky, but she slips a drug in his drink. The next morning he wakes up in a bathrub filled with ice. He feels like shit and his neck hurts. Then he notices a sign on his chest that says, "Don't call 911. You're fine." He doesn't, and just goes home. He didn't know it, but his wife had paid someone to implant a chip in his neck, and now she tracks his every move.
I don't see the security part... (Score:2)
In other words; measuring parameters which tend to change from time to time. Where is the security? I mean; I guess it could tranfer those parameters as well as the position of the owner but I don't think it will be using any encryption or something. So basicly I'd call it a nice tracking device but thats about it. IMHO its 'improving' "e business secutiry" simply because e-business is in the picture.
Re:seems iffy (Score:2)
As for GPS, the antennas themselves are fairly substantial. Even the GPS watch is a pretty big device. It can do 600 readings (10h at 1 reading per minute) with a CR2 lithium battery. And how well that thing works compared to a "real" GPS receiver remains to be seen.
Making a dime-size device capable of bidirectional communications even just with a cell site, incorporating GPS, performing body function monitoring, and in addition being powered by muscular energy still looks to me like it belongs in the realm of science fiction. The fact that the individual bits and pieces seem plausible ("I have heard..." and "people are doing something like that for...") is just the mark of a good tall story.
Re:How to turn it off - X-Acto knife! (Score:3)
--
Re:seems iffy (Score:2)
So what's new? (Score:3)
This is not a revolution, it's just an evolution of currently available technology.
If a government wants to track criminals, dissidents, journalists or whatever, the technology to do this has been developed a long time ago. You just need a bracelet with a radio transmitter, secured around the persons wrist or ankle. Hell, I bet half the bears here in Norway has got one of those...
The real obstacles to abusing this kind of technology are not the technological challenges in itself, but the social and political ramifications. We don't see personal radio beacons, even in the most oppressive states on earth. Why would it suddenly become more widespread, because it's implanted?
Erm.... (Score:2)
Do these guys consider that the mankind is a set of non-dangerous convicts ?
Last week we talked about Napster and about the coders' responsabilities in case their tools would be used for malicious purposes.
This week, we just (subliminally) suggest that according to the chaos theory (a butterfly wing's beat in Australia could cause a tornado in Arkansas three months later) we will just be trackable enough to get sentenced for such abuses (even if this is not obvious, this is gonna happen because these devices will show they full potential only when used alongside a lawyer).
When will the first humans pioneer another world?
I give you my part of this one.
--
Future Letter From The PTA (Score:2)
The PTA and the School Board has agreed to enact a new policy based on a promising new technology called 'Digital Angel Mark V'. This technology promises to enhance school saftey and the health of your child tremendously. All children will receive this added benefit at no extra cost to you -- it is being funded by President Bush's "Take Our Schools Back from the Bad Guys" program. The devices will be installed with all children on Tuesday, with absentees to be made up the following week.
Note: Cases of excessive absenteeism will be reported to the FBI.
From now on, you will never have to worry if your child falls ill while in class because physical abnormalities will be immediately detected and treated! Never will you have to worry about your child instigating fights or misbehaving, because Digital Angel Mk 5 detects biochemical and/or hormal changes as well! The school infirmiry will insure that all children are monitored closely and that proper psychiatric medication is applied to ensure a relaxing, pleasant, and disciplined learning environment.
Thank you for your continued support of the PTA and remember to invest in $schoolname stock options!
Sincerely,
Principal $principlename
P.S. Don't forget the upcoming Mind@Ease Mental Health Drug Expo in late September!
The Market Says *yawn* (Score:2)
Anyone remember that spoof site someone set up a while back saying they would pay volunteers some money if they would take an implant like this? They had a page buried in there somewhere with some jokes about the whole thing. Then someone claimed it was a psychology experiment. I wish I could remember that URL!
Anyway, maybe this is all hogwash to grab capital from people who listen to too much heavy metal music or are control freaks. Or maybe it is disinformation to desensitize us.
Re:Feh (Score:2)
They will stay totally voluntary. You won't have to get one, and if you do, you won't have to share your tracking number with anyone outside the issuing agency. Just like social security numbers. :-/
Feh (Score:2)
seems iffy (Score:3)
If all that is possible, why are our GPS receivers still cell phone sized and operate for only 18h on a bunch of standard batteries? Why aren't there lots of simple implantable medical monitors that monitor on a much smaller scale? Why do this in humans first, when there are so many applications in animals and property tracking? Even though devices are less regulated than drugs, what about human testing?
Take a look at the stock chart [yahoo.com] on Yahoo! and check out the associated news and insider stock activity, salaries of the CEO, etc. The whole thing seems pretty iffy to me.
Military!! New Service!! (Score:2)
Re:Imagine... (Score:2)
That has got to be the best beowulf cluster joke I've heard in a long time... honestly.
Personally, I'm gonna overclock mine... rig up a peletier cooler that can be worn under a suit jacket and I'm all set.
Re:The device... (Score:2)
Does anyone see a problem with this? One Possibility:
I'm going on a trip to another country. I arrive at the airport and check my bags and have my implant scanned. I proceed to board the plane and the airline (via a 'ground station' near the airport) deactivates my implant for the trip. This leaves two alternatives:
1) The plane crashes somewhere, but the device is totally worthless for finding us because it is off.
2) If we arrive on time, a ground station controlled by that country's government switches on so that they can watch everything we do.
Also, what is stopping them from giving businesses access to the ground stations?
Now they can log where we shop, and give us more targetted advertising...
"I never shopped their, but this 50% off offer looks good."
Then when the store you usually shop at sees that you aren't shopping their they send you their own coupons/advertising/other gimicks.
Anyone care to join me in founding a new civilization on the moon?