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Mozilla The Internet

Mozilla Theme Builder Released 93

Posted by CmdrTaco from the now-that's-a-cool-idea dept.
icqqm writes: "The people from AlphaNumerica have released their Mozilla theme builder which, of course, runs in Mozilla itself. Looks MUCH easier to use than the horribly complicated instructions fot XML files on Netscape's site" Note that it doesn't work with current builds, but it ought to once the dust settles a bit. I've been using Mozilla more than Navigator these days... Still want to get Galeon working since it looks to be a lot more slimmed down.
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Mozilla Theme Builder Released More

Mozilla Theme Builder Released

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  • if this is marketing speak, then use arguments to disprove mine.

    cylab
  • The Taco writes: I've been using Mozilla more then Navigator these days..

    I don't see how. I've been trying to use the latest (what are we up to now -- M17?), but it's not nearly up to snuff yet. Its worst problem is that it dumps core on a regular basis. It also has other nagging problems, but I could probably live with them if the app didn't die every ten minutes.

    On the other hand, I can say that Mozilla is clearly improving steadily; I've seen a marked increase in useability over each of the past three or four milestone releases. I like Mozilla and can't wait to try my hand at skinning it. But it's just not quite dogfood quality yet.

    --Jim
  • Fuck off, troll, or I'll rip your colon out through your mouth.
    Troll? I think you've got the wrong foot-fetishist. I happen to be a Karma Whore.
    --Shoeboy
  • No, the best way to read slashdot is with links. See http://links.sourceforge.net. It rocks, I could never go back to lynx again. Just make sure you know about the menu using escape ;)
  • True, too bad it uses the transfer manager though. I think it would have been better using a program not needing X11/GTK+/GNOME-libraries. Then all effort would be concentrated to one progam instead of two (we will always need the shell...) The transfer manager could then be used as a frontend to this shellprogram/server.

    The backend could still use CORBA though, but I also think the bonobo part should be abstracted from the GNOME project. That would make it even more usable for people not wanting to use either GNOME or KDE and probably form a standard for the unix-world! (not strictly to be used only for X).
  • a hardware accelerated Mozilla card, so that I can plug it in my computer and run Mozilla without wasting all my cpu time and memory?

    I think this is a big business opportunity! :)
  • But i betcha most of that is shared memory with other apps.

    Duh. When will people learn to read the output of top?


    --
  • The only good thing about the cromes released is that I can make mozilla look like the old netscape.

    But on another note: Why the hell does the windows binary of mozilla consume over 30Mb of mem while iexplorer takes 7,8Mb? The thing is fucking bloated if you ask me....The old netscape used only 10Mb. And there is no obvious difference in functionality...

    Ok...no need to call me a troll because of what I just said. Just frustrated that's all. (Cause I hate to see borg win)

    Lothar
  • I wasn't going to rant here, I wasn't. No, really!

    naden, you hit on a topic that's been scaring the heck out of me considering who is really running the Mozilla show. Yes, I have read many a lecture and been provided numbers of arguments that pointed out for me how Mozilla was not Netscape or AOL, but a truly independant entity. These were all good arguments mind you, but I still have my doubts.

    Clue #1: Netscape home page turned into pop up ad hell, designed to look like the Mozilla default skin.

    Clue #2: Why was theming so important all this time? As cool as this is the whole process of plugging it in and making it work (even with XUL in the play) could have waited until Moz 2.0. Unless a certain service provider needed a way to expand what platforms their software ran on. A simple browser couldn't do that.

    Clue #3: Moz is going to have a mail client. You can love it or hate it, it's in there. For folks, such as myself, it needed to be in order to fully replace NS 4.7. Thing is, somewhere along the line it was decided that they didn't have time to implement LDAP into the address book. This rather upset me, as I utilize this at my office where folks mostly use NS 4.x for mail. Even being upset I can appreciate time constraints. I'm just wondering why 3 months of development has instead been going into working on AOL's addressing schema. All the while, only one indvidual has been doing any work with the open standard LDAP.

    There's a good bit more that's still nagging at me about AOL's involvement with all this. I think I'll save some of that for the next milestone release of Mozilla.
  • Wow, this browser is awesome. It's like a text-based copy of Navigator. Cool!
  • I tried Galeon, and I think somebody read Icaza's headline and left out the "not". This thing sucks. First of all, the button I use *most* in a browser is "Back", so what does Galeon do but hide it down in a pull down menu! I cannot find a configuration menu to fix that. Secondly, like Mozilla, it doesn't handle relative links properly. Things like href="./abc.html" are just silently ignored, while things like href="/rfc/index.hmtl" bring up some god awful search engine thing. Relative links have been part of the web since the days of xmosaic, and indeed some of the ones on my home page have been there for 8+ years as my web pages have been tarred and moved off to new jobs, isps, and web servers without having to be changed.

    If this is the best the Open Sores Community can do, then sign me up to buy a copy of Windows, because we've lost.

    --
  • Ok, then, look at http://xcski.com/~ptomblin/. Validates as 4.0 Transitional except for one tiny little problem that's beyond my control. But Galeon can't handle the relative links in it (try clicking on the link to my Rochester Flying Club page, or the one to my Piseco trip page). Neither can Mozilla M17. Netscape can. IE can. Lynx can. xmosaic could handle them back in 1992. But Mozilla, the saviour of us all, can't.

    So much for standards compliance. So much for the quality of open source software. Maybe if they hadn't wasted the last two years on chrome and eye candy, they could have actually implemented something that has been an integral part of the web since its early days.

    --
  • KDE and GNOME have themes already.

    Why can't those themes be good enough or be extended with mozillaisms?

    If every application decides it needs it's own themes, that will be fun to configure won't it?
  • The lack of LDAP support is a crime, if only because just a couple years ago Netscape Communicator was supposed to be the client-side of Netscape's wonderful enterprise product line up.

    I know that if I was one of the suckers who is running iPlanet's mail/calendar/directory system, I'd be pretty pissed right now. If I wasn't too bogged down with the details of the Exchange/ActiveDirectory migration, that is.

    (As a side note, I'll point out that the 'theming' support has always been a pure play for the 'service providers' that abandoned Netscape for free IE a few years back. It is and always has been for adverts/portal/AOL poop.

    Outside of a handful of desktop customziation junkies, nobody else wants it at all, especially the last line of corporate MIS Netscape defenders. As soon as the native interfaces on Windows/Unix/Mac stablize, expect folks to forget the XUL chrome was ever put in there to begin with.)
    --
  • FYI, not everyone wants to install GNOME on their system. For example, I just installed FreeBSD for a friend on an old hard drive that was 440MB. There isn't really room for GNOME and friends. For those of us who don't use a desktop environment (GNOME or KDE) and prefer a simple window manager, Netscape continues to be the only decent browser.

    Having Galeon be a only frontend for Mozilla rather than a standalone browser is, uh, kinda lame. Kmeleon has done a great job taking the gecko engine and throwing out the rest of the Mozilla code to create a lightweight browser. It's too bad there isn't a version for unix.

  • Read Miguel de Icaza's article on Let's make Unix not suck. He talks about why Gnome is more than a desktop and discusses the idea of building applications from components rather than wasting time and effort to build huge mononoliths which all take up memory to implement their own versions of the same thing. So Galeon can just reuse Gnome components for the UI etc and Gecko for the rendering..

    I'm not saying create a monolith. Mozilla is already that. So why do I want to install it plus yet another front end (Galeon)? It would be much better to have gecko alone as a shared library with a lightweight gtk+ frontend, for example.

    Sure its possible to release code that includes all its own libraries its own UI, it's own widgets, its own version of printf and it will compile anywhere, but aren't you getting sick of them?

    Absolutely. All I want is a browser, like lynx is a browser, only I want to see pictures. Just a browser!

  • When I run it nothing happens. NOTHING. No diagnostic messages, no crash, no whirring of the hard drives - a silence as profound as when the whale swallowed Jonah.

    Everyone knows that when the whale swallowed Jonah there was the sound of a great big gulp.

  • Galeon utilises the GNOME CORBA architecture too provide integration with GNOME transfer Manager. The use of GNOME has enabled Galeon to provide more extensive features than it otherwise would. Why people can't see that re-implementing fuctionality is more stupid and space consuming than many apps sharing one or more libraries providing this functionality is beyond me.

    Yes, when are people going to get it into their heads that in order to have a browser they need CORBA, goddamnit! I mean, when will they learn that they need drag and drop and components and graphical mail clients and graphical ftp clients and graphical modem dialers and games to go along with the browsing experience? Some people are just beyond me.

  • jeah plain gtk rox hard!
    I use it with Blackbox for a wmanager.

    wtf does one need gnome for annyway?

  • Galeon really doesn't need Gnome (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I think you are mistaken. Galeon could just as well use plain old gtk+ and does not really need gnome. Currently Gnome doesn't add much overhead to Galeon, though. Gecko is the component - you can use many wrappers besides Gnome. It's been done over a year ago with Qt (flame on).

    Nautilus *does* use a whole lot more of Gnome and more fully explores Gnome components and bonobo than Galeon. And it is extremely bloated. Of course it's unstable as well being in early stages of development, but even when stability improves the bloat will remain. This will force hardware upgrades for many unix users who are doing quite well right now on mid-range pentiums with 32 - 64 megs of ram.

    I also would like to see a gui for Gecko which doesn't require either Gnome or Kde. The original Qt work is now out of date but could be revived, and/or a plain old gtk gui for Gecko would be nice.

    Not to just knock Gnome and Eazel, Kde's new Konqueror is also quite nice (roughly equivalent to Nautilus but available right now in a very usable and fairly stable form). However, becasue of all the component stuff it also is a little less responsive in some ways than the old kde kfm or than Netscape. Other things are faster and smoother, though.

    The "embedding" buzzword is not the solution to everything, and there is a tremendous tradeoff in slowdown and stability. Why stability? Because components added can destabilize the aggregate, especially those designed by third parties. There is no way to reliably predict how an unknown number and variety of components might interact, especially in situations where components are added and removed while an app is running.

    Use of components is just one of many kinds of code reuse. In many cases simply using what's in existing libraries is better - faster and more reliable.

  • It would be great if it worked. Actually I can't get anything based on the mozilla engine to render my site. That is if you go to the /
    Try http://www.solutionsfirst.net [solutionsfirst.net] to see for yaself.

    What could be wrong here?

    Dave
  • Galeon utilises the GNOME CORBA architecture too provide integration with GNOME transfer Manager. The use of GNOME has enabled Galeon to provide more extensive features than it otherwise would. Why people can't see that re-implementing fuctionality is more stupid and space consuming than many apps sharing one or more libraries providing this functionality is beyond me.

  • Re:browser speed (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Navigator 3.x eats about 5MB of memory initially and after few weeks of usage (still hasn't crashed!) it is below 20MB. Galeon initially eats over 20MB and you're telling that isn't bloated? Well, it is. Even navigator4 is smaller. I don't need the other gnome apps, in fact the only non-athena/motif app I use is the gimp (and I still prefer the old motif-gimp. Wish I could find it somewhere.)
  • no doubt it was submitted numerous times before it was posted on slashdot. I think slashdot should either rephrase the slogan "news for nerds, stuff that matters" to "news for nerds, stuff that mattered last week".

    This is a bit harsh perhaps but it captures my general impression that it takes longer and longer before things get posted on slashdot. This doesn't mean the discussions are less interestng (moderation brought back the fun for me), but it does mean that I no longer use slashdot as a prime source of news.

    I occasionally submit news to slashdot, often on days with very little postings (e.g. sunday). Invariably those submissions are rejected after 15 minutes or so. Only to be posted days later by someone else. I understand, slashdot people have to read through a lot of submissions but perhaps they could monitor some sites for new articles. E.g zdnet is a frequently referenced site on slashdot, yet it sometimes takes days before a post is made on a zdnet article.

    BTW, I have a slashbox for mozillazine, so I learned about the new tool within hours after it was posted.
  • I'm glad you had such luck.

    I've been trying to use Galeon for several months. Yesterday, I did exactly as you did: downloaded the M17 RPM an installed it, followed by the Galeon RPM.

    When I run it nothing happens. NOTHING. No diagnostic messages, no crash, no whirring of the hard drives - a silence as profound as when the whale swallowed Jonah.

    I'm presuming that this isn't what's supposed to happen, right?

    I'm running Sawfish 0.30 on Helix 1.2.1(?) on RH 6.2. If someone out there is using the same setup and has had success, I'd be interested in hearing how you managed it. Even more importantly, if someone experienced what I am experiencing and worked their way out of it, I'd LOVE to know your secret! I've heard a lot of good things about Galeon and I'd really like to try it!

    P.S. The same thing happens when I run M17 too.

  • If im not mistaken, the Gnome Transfer Manager is a frontend of sorts to wget.
  • I agree. I don't want GNOME or KDE installed on my machine. This is my choice. Don't flame me, but I am beginning to see Motif and GTK (standalone) as the lightweight alternatives.

    If I page cannot be viewed with lynx, it cannot be worth browsing.

    I personally use w3m-ssl on my FreeBSD box for any text testing.
  • The problem with your CSS [w3.org] is the "#664433". Get rid of those quotes and it renders fine for me in Mozilla.

    Always a good idea to check your pages [w3.org] for standards compliance.

    Not sure why the JavaScript doesn't work (although DOM layer support is rather dicey and browser specific).
  • Netscape 4 doesn't use Gnome, and it's nothing like 'monolithic'. I don't know what Galeon uses the transfer manager for exactly, but I doubt it's needed just to send out HTTP requests (I wrote a simple HTTP library recently, and it weighs in about 10kb).
  • Yes, I see - sorry 'bout that!

    (Guess I am making a fool of my self but:)
    Would it be good relying on CORBA as a standard instead of the usual pipes for the backend? (Which will only become true if separated from the GNOME project).

    You will then have a clean interface that leaves parsing out - "components" for shell level. Instead of relying on the pipes you would rely on the component interface.

    (Is it really an advantage or would you rather use libraries instead of "components" for the shell programs?)
  • The milestones have always seemed buggy crap to me, but the nightly builds are usually good. I'm running M18, and have been for a while, though some of the "add-ons" don't work. The only thing that pisses me off, is lack of Java support on Linux. I use applets on a daily basis, and Mozilla can't run 'em. At this stage in the game, why the hell not? I ask....

  • I'm sure everbody can do that!!

    Not quite as easy as that for me. Galleon doesn't have an rpm for alpha linux, so I have to compile it on my own. Not too bad until one realizes that it requires header files from mozilla, so the source for mozilla has to be downloaded (which is over 200MB unpacked). Now I see that all the header files aren't in the uncompiled source, so it looks like I'm going to have to compile mozilla. If the source is over 200MB, it's probably going to need several GB's to compile. So now I have to make room on a partition, and let it compile all day (it probably won't compile right either given my luck). Glad it's easy for some people, though.


  • You should try using the nightly builds.. you will be shocked. I must say that it's running amazingly better now than the M17 build.

    I don't know what bug(s) they fixed but I must say I am quite impressed with the nightly builds the past couple of days.

    They have also put a new skin on the distribution and it looks GREAT.




    --------------------
  • I think Mozilla not having its own jvm built in is one of the beast's best features. Now if they would do the same for mail and news clients...
  • Well, Microsoft *did* build IE into the OS. This makes the browser lighter at the expense of the OS.

    The end user never sees the difference, as the mem count is roughly the same. Windows shows only memory dedicated to the application, and I doubt it's showing *shared libraries* in that total.

    Put it another way, if you could force Windows to load Gecko as a shared library during boot, then you would have LESS ram after boot. Now make a "lightweight" browser that invokes Gecko. You now have a browser that's as small as you want to fake it.

    That said, the Mozilla interface is the real bloat. Galleon crashes a lot, and some of those crashes are obviously happening in the UI. I love Galleon but "random clicks" in the UI kill it - I hope they implement a stable/unstable tree.

    As for Taco "wanting" to install Galleon - heh - please, we know he's playing Diablo 2 in Windows 98 all day long. Heh.

  • "fot"...should be "for" i imagine.

    --

  • I haven't tried Galeon yet, so I can't comment on the back button, but I will say that becuase it uses Mozilla as the rendering engine OF COURSE the links will break in the same way. Once Mozilla is finished and bug free then Galeon will soon follow.
  • The interesting thing is that the relative links are handled *differently* than Mozilla, even though they still handle them wrong. With ./foo.html type relative links, Galeon just silently ignores them, and Mozilla says "Can't find host `.'" or something like that.

    --
  • Seems to me like there's potential for a problem here. If the theme builder runs in Mozilla, would it be possible to create a Mozilla theme sufficiently broken to make the theme builder unusable? ;-)

    "Whoops, I forgot the "OK button" widget... uh oh." <reinstalls Mozilla>
  • We need another themes.org

  • Whenever I try to install a *.xpi file with the current milestone release, it just times out while connecting to the server. I can download the XPI files no problem with another browser.

    There are already quite a few themes available already (see http://x.themes.org/viewresourc es.phtml?type=chrome [themes.org]). They ought to make the ones that exist installable first.

    -- Steve

  • Get to hacking, or quit bitching.
  • Theming is a nice idea, but if gecko is supposed to be so fast, I'd rather see it take advantage of that instead of bogging down with theming abilities. My last build of Mozilla, which was just after the last milestone came out, was nearly excruciatingly slow. Not in its ability to render html but in its user interface. Click on an icon, wait two or three seconds...finally up pops a menu. This should be instantaneous.

    Galeon seems like it may be a viable solution when it's more mature, but why must it rely on GNOME? That isn't going to fly either. We need a version that stands alone, without having to install Mozilla or GNOME first.

  • This was posted on mozillazine.org [mozillazine.org] 3 days ago.

    Anyways, I tested it with a nightly build and it brought my whole x down. I think they should make a version check and give you an error message if you try to run it with the wrong build.
    You might also want to check out the latest mozilla nighlty [mozilla.org] which has now the new modern 2.0 skin, which i, amongst many others think is looks cool. This has also been posted before, but just in case you dont know...
  • Um, maybe because
    1.) Mozilla isn't X11R6-specific?
    2.) Not everyone uses KDE and GNOME?
    3.) You should get the stick out of your ass?

    (Note to the humor-impaired: that last one was a joke, not intended entirely as an insult. Please go ahead and ruin my karma rating; it's already pretty low, because I express my opinion.)
  • So what's the big difference between HTTP requests & FTP requests? The point I'm trying to make is that it can hardly be such a problem to rewrite these parts to get rid of Gnome...
  • Did you try?

    http://mozilla.themes.org [themes.org]

    ;-)

  • I installed the Galeon rpm after I installed the Mozilla RPM from the Eazel site. Imported my Netscape bookmarks and it worked immediately! I'm sure everbody can do that!!
  • Yeh, Galeon is great....

    Pity it needs the Gnome libs... which I dont install.

    Is there a Galeon fork with removal of the Gnome crap? I want straight gtk people :)


    Simon

  • The app (Score:2)

    by 348 ( 124012 )
    Seems a little light on some of the basics, however all in all I think they have hit a home run with the "marketing" approach. Having reached a higher level of stability with 17 the timing is right to try to get non Mozilla folks to give it a try. Using the easy branding approach is a great way to gain some corporate support. Joe Lan admin could easilly become a hero when he ports the companies browsers to 17 with a custom corporate look and feel with logos etc.

    Very good tactic. Hats off to the Mozilla team for creativity in targeting and tracking to a valid marketing strategy rather than relying on just "Mozilla is cool man, It's open source."

  • With Mozilla having the ability for the entire user inteface itself to be defined externally, I wonder if we are seeing the beginnings of a possible future advertising hub. Whilst this is somewhat occuring with the ability to add buttons and toolbars to IE, XUL enables an unherelded array of customization possibilities.

    Could in the future, the entire web browser be a huge banner, with the theme being streamed via an All Advantage server in exchange for money.

    Similarly could porn sites trick you into using a porn theme complete with Forward and Back buttons that go off to other porn sites rather than the appropriate destinations.

    Also, how long before Netscape really does fulfil its goal of becoming the ultimate x-platform OS shell.

    Im just dreading the future of the net.

    Naden

    "Who do you want to geekbone today ?"
    - www.it-guys.com

  • Renders fine ... but if you mean the Javascript problems, I agree, there's still a lot of work in that area.

  • Re:browser speed (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    No particular reason why Galeon must rely on Gnome. It's just a matter of preference.

    I have also had performance issues with mozilla, including the M17 release. It's my understanding that mozilla requires at least 64 megs or ram and preferably 128 or more to run well in unix. Also a PIII class processor. Using Mozilla is not feasible for me becaue it takes pages so long to load. It's all due to the XUL gui. With Galeon on the same machine, performance is very good. Even with a high end machine those who say that performance is good with mozilla are fudging a great deal.

    Galeon has a way to go because so many features are missing like page scrolling and selecting images with the mouse. But what's there works well so far.

    If you don't want to use Gnome then Kde's Konqueror is the browser of choice. Even if you use Gnome. It has all the features and then some, and is fast - a lot faster than mozilla. The latest Beta of Kde 2 is very usable as a default desktop. Konqueror comes with it but can be run separately, with any wm.

    With either Galeon or Konqueror you still get themes but better ones. Whatever themes you are using with Gtk or Kde will also be applied to the browser. There is no additional overhead and there is a tremendous overhead with mozilla's XUL.

    Note: There are several pure Gtk browsers available but these are very simple and can't render complex pages to spec. Several more are in the works with other unix toolkits. But it takes a lot of work to develop a complete html engine with all the trimmings. For the forseeable future browsers that use the gecko engine, and Kde's Konqueror, will be the only acceptable choices and Netscape 4.x will gradually become less and less attractive.

  • Re:This could be nice but... (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Themes are a byproduct of making widgets the same on all platforms to conform to the new CSS specs. They would have had to write custom widgets on every platform anyways, so why not make a cross-platform, customizable GUI in the process?
  • The themes do install, and even on the nightly builds. They just don't install as advertised yet. For some reason the theme install seems to hang while trying to get back in contact with themes.org. What ya need to do is let the theme download, which will extract the files into their proper folders. When the dialog box showing the install goes away, pop into Mozilla's preferences and select the new theme manually.

    There's quite obviously more work needing to be done on the follow through on the install, but it is quite possible to get those themes down and switched. You should be aware up front that when switching themes it'll blank out whatever web page you happen to be looking at, so you'll have to re-load. Minor stuff, but a glitch never the less.
  • What I feel is much bigger news regarding Mozilla is the totally re-done Modern skin (the default one). This was quite possibly the worst problem with Mozilla because it made most people puke the first time they saw the app, which made for a pretty bad initial impression..

    The new skin is much, much, MUCH, *MUCH* cooler. Check it out at: http://www.mozillazine.org/jason/newmodern.gif

  • Re:How do you use Mozilla? (Score:3)

    by Metrol ( 147060 ) on Monday August 28, 2000 @01:56AM (#823780) Homepage
    A little factoid for those not following the Mozilla project quite THAT closely. The milestone releases stink. They always have, and probably will continue to do so right up until when they release Moz 1.0 some time 3rd quarter of 2005.

    If you're looking for a reasonable snapshot of where Mozilla is at, pop on over to Mozillazine and use the links at the top of their page for the latest nightly download that's functional. Unless you're a third party developer, such as Alphanumerica, the milestones are best forgotten. Pull down a nightly and see what ya think. Love it or hate it, it's generally a much better picture of where this project is actually at.
  • Excellent, I thought, I'll just grab the nightly and check it out, I'm about due for a new one (two weeks). Man, if this is your idea of an attractive GUI layout..... this looks like some gifs someone slapped together 'cos they ran out of time!

  • Re:Future Of Advertising (Score:4)

    by Greyfox ( 87712 ) on Monday August 28, 2000 @03:50AM (#823782) Homepage Journal
    Also, how long before Netscape really does fulfil its goal of becoming the ultimate x-platform OS shell.

    Kind of like Emacs?

    Funny thing is since they've ported Xemacs to gtk and are working on integrating it with bonobo and they're working on integrating Mozilla with bonobo, you're going to have two applications that think they're operating systems that can communicate with each other via CORBA. Why don't they just add E-Lisp bindings to Mozilla now and be done with it?

  • Huh? Did you reply to the wrong post? I didn't say anything bad about Mozilla and I have indeed tried nightly builds - just downloaded one yesterday. This is what I was talking about. The new skin - Modern 2 - looks great. Modern 1 that is now known as "blue" sucked big time tho. I'm talking SKINS - not the browser on a whole.

    The browser on a whole is getting better every day and especially with Classic and Modern 2, it's very promising indeed.
  • Why the hell does the windows binary of mozilla consume over 30Mb of mem while iexplorer takes 7,8Mb?

    I'd like to know why Mozilla is a 7meg download while IE is something like 40-50meg?

    To more directly answer your question, the Mozilla development has shifted gears away from functionality at this point towards memory and performance issues. At the moment on NT Mozilla is taking up about 30meg of memory. After a while this number will just continue to grow. The problem at this point is that they are just now addressing memory clean up details, which weren't getting the same level of attention as functions earlier. I would suspect that by the next milestone we'll be seeing memory usage that is far more in line with what you'd expect to see in a browser.
  • Duh - its for downloads (ie ftp) The word transfer is a clue
  • I got Galeon working w/ only one problem... the damn arrow keys wont scroll the page up and down. I have to use the mouse.
    --

    A mind is a terrible thing to taste.

  • You *did* export your MOZILLA_FIVE_HOME variable right?
    --

    A mind is a terrible thing to taste.

  • I just tested it. The proble doesn,t see to be javascript but java.

    I turned off java and it cae straight up

    think java is still a problem in mozilla

  • Have you tried typing galeon from a terminal and see what output you get
  • Wrong.

    Sure, galeon _COULD_ remove Gnome dependencies and use just gtk+, but as the previous poster (the one you replied to) noted, it wouldn't be taking advantage of what's out there -- especially considering that Galeon has always intended to be a Gnome web browser.

    But you said Gnome isn't a big part of Galeon (sorta), which isn't true. Galeon uses lots of Gnome widgets (the modified gtk+ ones with all the standard pixmaps, the toolbar, customized menus), gnome-libs are used a lot (for configuration, quick dialogs) -- CORBA is used, and we also use standard Gnome libraries like libxml and libglade.
    How much would we really gain by removing the libgnome dependency? Not a whole lot, as it would only cause pain and wouldn't play as nicely with other Gnome apps.

    This comes up on galeon-devel more and more frequently, I'm thinking of adding it to the FAQ
  • Great, you've found a bug then. Go tell them about it and the next version will be better.
  • I told them about relative links back around the time of M5. I'm not holding my breath for a fix. Evidently fancy gui shit is more important than standards complaince.
    --
  • Yeah, you could say that galleon is slimmed down - to the point of it only being a front end for the mozilla engine. No right click menus, no downloading for the most part... but I guess that will come later as it develops.
  • The theme builder app is not made by the mozilla team but by a company named AlphaNumerica. It's written right up there in the first sentence of the post.
  • My point: I dont want no corba/transfer manager/mail client/bookmark lists/window manager integration/etc etc etc.

    I want a gtk based browser. Thats all...


    Simon
  • I seriously doubt the whole shebang gets compiled in one shot. I woyld geuss you'd have to compile it module by module. As for compile time, at least you're compiling on Alpha...

  • Theme, schmeme. Where's the "Open" button? (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward
    In Netscape 1.x - 3.x, I used three buttons almost exclusively: Back, Bookmarks, and Open. As of 4.0, the Open button was gone, replaced with essential functionality like "look everything up on search.netscape.com instead of just adding .com" and "go shopping".

    Not to mention the way they buried the "don't load images" checkbox in the Edit-Preferences-Advanced submenu (yeah, that's real advanced).

    And do the words "incremental rendering" mean anything to these people? The best way to read Slashdot is still Lynx if I don't want to wait for the entire 500K page to load before I can see the first paragraph.

    Grrrrr.

  • I know it wasnt written by the Mozilla team. I was just saying that before anyone gets to concerned with themes we should have a working browser first.
  • I'm getting tired of poeple complaining about software getting bloated just because they want it to run responsively on their 386. This is getting a little absurd. I'm not advocating pointless software bloat, but there are a lot of interesting features that require more power than your 10 year old computer can provide.

    Okay, so Mozilla's XPI is slow and unresponsive compared to other GUI toolkits. A bunch of people complained that this feature is "useless and bloated." Mozilla responded by saying "so embed Gecko." The Galeon folks did this, and are doing a great job so far. What's the first thing we hear in this thread? "Galeon is too bloated! They should be using plain GTK+!" Oh for Christ's sake, give it a rest!

    If you want a Gecko browser for your favorite toolkit/platform, then write one! But please, stop telling hard-working volunteer developers what they should be doing just because you disagree on what features are useful!

    -zack

  • Errr...Galeon is a GNOME frontend for Mozilla, so removing both GNOME and Mozilla depency is naturally not a very brilliant idea. As for speed, I use Galon daily and it is very fast and slick. And as the optization work continues in Mozilla, things will only go faster.
  • I know it wasnt written by the Mozilla team. I was just saying that before anyone gets to concerned with themes we should have a working browser first.

    Did it ever occur to you that the Alphanumerica developers are mainly designers, and not hardcore C++ hackers equipped to work on a complex project like Mozilla?

    Non-coders are always asking what they can do to help with a project. The folks at Alphanumerica are taking it upon themselves to build some very interesting software based on Mozilla. Haven't you ever used beta software for development?

    -zack

  • Theme Builder is *NOT* a part of Mozilla. (Score:5)

    by jelwell ( 2152 ) on Sunday August 27, 2000 @10:58PM (#823802)
    First off, some comments are suggesting that "Mozilla" should be focused on X rather than a theme builder. This is just mis-informed. The theme builder was created by a third party, and is not part of the Mozilla tree. Alphanumerica (now owned by Collab.net) created this theme builder as a demonstration of how the Mozilla platform can be used to create applications. In this case an application that helps configure the look and feel of Mozilla itself.

    There are many other applications that are being developed using the Mozilla platform. A few of note are: a Jabber client, a News Reader like interface for web forums (such as Slashdot), and various games (mostly 2d recreations of classics).

    Just keep in mind that these *third* party applications being developed using the Mozilla platform does not slow down, or detract from the development of Mozilla. In fact, they can actually help: these new, outside, developers are actually testing and submitting bugs on the Mozilla platform (Html Rendering Engine, Networking code, etc.) while creating their applications -- which in turns helps Mozilla developers increase the stability of Mozilla itself.

    Joseph Elwell.
  • Read Miguel de Icaza's article on Let's make Unix not suck [helixcode.com]. He talks about why Gnome is more than a desktop and discusses the idea of building applications from components rather than wasting time and effort to build huge mononoliths which all take up memory to implement their own versions of the same thing. So Galeon can just reuse Gnome components for the UI etc and Gecko for the rendering..

    Sure its possible to release code that includes all its own libraries its own UI, it's own widgets, its own version of printf and it will compile anywhere, but aren't you getting sick of them?
  • Yawn wide as I ram my giant manmeat down your throat, veteran cockgobbling loser.
    It's man-meat you moron. Don't let me catch you leaving out the hyphen ever again.
    --Shoeboy
  • Maybe its the style sheets...

    galeon renders 2K for me then cancels so its something near the beginning there...
  • Come to #galeon on irc.gimp.net if you still can't get it working, there's lots of possibilities here.

  • Re:Galeon (Score:1)

    by nd ( 20186 )
    grr.. that's it, i'm definitely adding this to the FAQ
  • Because when I have text selected from an xterm where I'm reading news or mail or whatever on a different system, I can just left-click the open button then middle-click the URL into the window and left-click "Open" without having to use the keyboard at all. Three clicks - no waiting.

    But it can be even easier than this! Just select the URL in your xterm, and click with the middle mouse button almost anywhere. (The only places you can't click are places where the middle mouse button already has a different meaning - i.e. text boxes, scroll bars, etc.)

    This is much quicker and easier than waiting for a dialog box to pop up, and having to click right in it.

  • I installed the Galeon rpm after I installed the Mozilla RPM from the Eazel site. Imported my Netscape bookmarks and it worked immediately! I'm sure everbody can do that!!

    I got the latest rpm from rpmfind. I initially had trouble getting it to work with SUSE, either via rpm or source compilation (library soup) but the latest rpm installed and ran without a hiccup.

    I'm responding with Galeon now. If you can see this post, you know it works. :-)
    --

  • Re:Clue (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Most of the extra tools in Mozilla are competing aginst superior alternatives.

    Is Mozilla's composer better than Screem or Bluefish or Dreamweaver? NO.

    Is the email client better than Mutt or Eudora? NO.

    Does anyone give a shit about an NNTP client? NO.

    Sorry, but the earlier posters are correct - there is a market for a small stable lean browser - unfortunately the mozilla folks have missed this completely.


  • Ok, I guess I have not slept enough later.

    Sorry for the rant. :)


    --------------------
  • I have a /box for MZ too. And I saw it. And I liked it. And I submitted it. And they posted it. Not bad since there were two previous stories yesterday I had submitted a week and a half in advance.
  • It just so happens this was being discussed on another forum [lockergnome.com] just recently. While Mozilla/Netscape is 15-30 MB, IExplorer is 8MB PER WINDOW. So if you have three windows open, that's already 24MB of memory being taken up. Which would you rather have?
  • 'The'? no, 'There' too.
  • The X middle mouse button paste is not retarded. Its faster.

    Your method.

    1. Select url.
    2. Press control-C.
    3. Double click on address text bar.
    4. Press control-V.
    5. Press enter.

    The middle mouse button method.

    1. Select URL.
    2. Hit middle mouse button almost anywhere in a Mozilla (or Netscape window).

    What could be easier?

  • Re:Clue (Score:3)

    by cylab ( 217151 ) on Sunday August 27, 2000 @11:23PM (#823816)

    no no, mozilla is not dead...
    it comes slowly, but powerfull. what you hear now is the sound of a stampede, just hiding behind the hill.

    there are numerous reasons for that:

    • mozilla runs on nearly all platforms
    • mozilla is much more stable in m17, so there is MUCH progress at this issue
    • mozilla is much faster in m17, so this point will be improved, too
    • the mozilla-exe can be run without installation
    • mozilla can implement coporate design
    • mozilla makes the newest technologie (like xml and componental-structure) usable on every platform

    i had a discussion with a friend about a project, where large amounts of preformatted text must be categorized and made searchable for cdrom publishing. the view application and the displayed text shall have the corporate design of the publishing company.

    it all comes down, that we need to categorize the text with xml-tags and make some stylesheets for diplay of the categories and their content in the different search-masks. than we need to find a offline xml-viewer, that runs on all desired platforms and some kind of script language to implement the functionality. nice would be a sdk for changing the viewers look n feel, to match the corporate design... and it should be really cheap..

    hmmm... think for your self... mozilla is not only cool, because its ..eh.. cool; its cool, because it implements features, that are really needed by companies... at least needed in the near future (..ok, this is good for mozilla ;) )

    cylab

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