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The PC As Theater: THX comes to the PC 103

Posted by Hemos from the gimme-gimme dept.
Talespinner writes: "Wired has this article on THX certification being ready for the PC. Lucasfilm, in combination with Dell, created the new THX-certification standard for the PC. The new systems for Dell start around $2000 and come ready with "multimedia speakers, Dolby Digital surround sound and integrated audio and video systems." "
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The PC As Theater: THX comes to the PC More

The PC As Theater: THX comes to the PC

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  • Y'know ... I don't exactly know how the behind-the-scenes stuff happens at Slashdot, but I assume that whoever's reading the submissions just pulls up the next article in the queue, and decides whether to accept or reject it. It would be interesting to be able to see who rejected articles .. you could gather some better statistics on who posts what. (Perhaps, by learning their schedules, you could incease your chances of getting your article accepted.)

    No good reason, of course; just a thought.

  • I own a pair of Klipsch promedia's and they've been THX certified for years. Sure, they may not measure up to Bose on B&W home systems, but for $250, they sound great (and I can take them with me when I move around).
  • As someone who is into High end audio and has attended the high end audio portion of at least 5 CES shows, I consider myself to have some experience in this area. I have never heard anything that sounded WORSE than THX in a theater. From a purists standpoint, we focus on the quality of the sound rather than how many sources it comes from. It put my ears in PAIN. If you need 5 or 6 channels, then your sound quality sucks. Well done stereo should provide all of the spatial queues given by six channels. Even that is debateable. I have heard some astounding MONO as well. All this is is a Microsoftish attempt to lay claims on some marketing BS that only appeaks to Americans who think that more is better! Just like a 1.4gHz PIV. Just like those who think that a Pandora Peaks style boob job that you have to carry in a wheelbarrow is "sexier" than what is natural.
  • Yeah, the RIAA would never allow this...

    Except on most mid to high-end CD players...

    Oh, and almost all DVD players...

    Oh, and receivers with digital auidio *switching*.

    Yeah, except for those...

    I would really like to see more digital audio (both DTS/Dolby Digital streams as well as straight coaxial digital streams) on computers... At prices for DTS/DD receivers, you could almost get one specifically for the computer...

    (And I am still waiting on the Soundblaster for the Macintosh...)
  • Doesn't a 23" monitor could as a mid-sized television? A fair number of people have them, or 21"ers.
  • If you want ANY sort of D->A then a $40 bucks SB Live will sound FAR worse than the sort of card you can get for a few hundred dollars. I had an Event Gina before I left windows for good and the sound difference between it and ANY other cheaper soundcard I have ever heard was clearly audible to me, someone with a not very good ear! Besides which if my understanding is correct THX is all about creating complete systems that should ensure that the sound you hear is what was intended. THX was started by Lucas as a way to tell Movie theaters that they can't just slap in any old sound system, they should take care. On a computer it is the equivalent of saying "don't pretend you are hearing the soundtrack as it was intended just because you have a 5.1 system. You have to have a good 5.1 system. I'm not suggesting that THX is vital or anything like it, but if you are not tone deaf and are willing to spend a few bucks to ensure that you have a reasonable sound system but not a few hours/days shopping to put it together yourself you can just buy some THX gear and be pretty sure that you won't be disgusted. If you just buy a system with 5.1 channel audio you could easily end up disgusted.
  • 1. it is too expensive - especially if you want the live platinum, for it's s/pdif outputs.

    All of the SB-Live cards have s/pdif connector, even the SB-Live value, it just on a pinout on the borad it's self. I have the x-gamer and it works just fine, s/pdif as well.

  • Re:digital only AC3 and/or DTS sound cards? (Score:3)

    by jonnythan ( 79727 ) on Thursday January 18, 2001 @04:17PM (#497568)
    I have this.
    I have a standard SB Live! Value, and I paid about $25 for a daughtercard from Hoontech that outputs the virgin digital audio - Dolby Digital works great on my external decoder. It has coax and optical outs!

    Great card.
  • This is important to note: THX certified just means they paid $$ to Lucas and Friends. E.g.: Yamaha home theater receivers, among the few taken seriously by many hi end audio nuts, are NOT THX certified.

    THX != Hi Fi

    But, THX does mean the box met *some* minimum standards and will likely sound Very Good For A Pee Cee and better than most.

    Don't get me wrong - Good Sound is possible from a computer, but you'll need a good sound card . See www.pcavtech.com/soundcards/index.htm for suggestions...
  • If anyone will notice, there is a specification in the Dell/THX certification scheme that says you MUST have a Geforce2 GTS card for a system to be 'THX' certified. Hrrm. /me thinks something is up here. My Reciever at home is 'officially' THX certified, yet it does not have a GeForce2 GTS Card in it.

    Keepin it Real. <g>
  • The sound card in the Dell THX systems (it can also be purchased from the manufacturer [voyetra.com] or with non-THX certified systems") has SP/DIF out (and the sound doesn't get procesed either). You'd need a 1/8" mini din to RCA adapter, but that's what's sold with the 885 speakers anyway.
  • I have a set of the ProMedias too. I love em!
  • I just got one of the newer dells with the THX speakers, It really isn't anything special, It's better then my TV for watching DVD's but that's just because I have a 13 inch TV.

    I've haven't gotten the Dolby Digital on the speakers to work right I end with just normal stereo or I hook it up to my reciever to get 5.1

    Luckly I got this system for other reason or I'd be a little pissed

  • Apple will do this next/first?

    After all, they have the color-space and color-sync issues handled (for years now, to boot), and they are pushing their PCs as the center of the digital lifestyle hub.

    Why wouldn't the next step, after high fidelity color, fanless/noiseless devices, and digital video, be digital audio?

    Perfect digital signals, no interference, shielding and such, etc, with an external standalone amp and speakers? Why not?

    Even better if they can figure out how to do this without wires!

    Geek dating! [bunnyhop.com]
  • ...stands for Total Harmonic Xtortion.
  • unbeatable computer speakers. get em now!

    Of course, hooking your computer up to your super home theater might be better, but this is the next best alternative

    Mike Roberto
    - GAIM: MicroBerto

  • The other Thx level is THX Ultra ; or the "real" THX as referred to by audio/video snobs.

    Not me though.
    I'm a broke college kid content with his onkyo/psb stereo setup.

    -Dennis
  • Why not? At least then you would be able to decode the signals on the PC (software allowing) and then pump out 6 dedicated channels of clean audio instead of requiring a outboard decoder to get surround sound! Also, I can hear the difference and I am NOT an audiophile with perfect pitch or even a great ear so even for games ...........

  • THX (Score:1)

    by AlgUSF ( 238240 )
    I wonder how much better the windows "Tada" sound or "Ding" sound will sound with THX? Really, who watches movies on their PC? Hmmmmmmmm, 19" computer monitor or 43" TV....(Hard Choice)

  • Arent the altec lansings d885s thx certified, not to mention the klipsch promedia which have little THX stickers on them. So is Dell going to start selling promedias with their systems for double the cost?
  • Best system was either Purist Audio, where they took a very scientific approach and used scopes to measure the room and tune the syaytem to the room.

    Or Shun Mook - where they used ebony as a vibration damper through out the system. This was late 60's McIntosh Gear with an Oracle turntable.

    Also I recall an astounding Van den Hul system, where Van den Hul himself demonstrated that the sound stayed the same even if he stood in front of one speaker.

    Anyway - interesting how people jump out to bash me when they have never even heard a high end system! Amazing! Experts based on nothing!

    I consider the highest quality components to be $5k and above. Systems can range from $5k for an "entry level" high end system, to $25k for an average system, to well over 100k. To give you a feel of the caliber of people, I have met John Hagelin at CES - he has a company called EAD that makes excellent digital gear.

    The High End CES show is like a competition for engineering and material design. People go and put forth product knowing that they won't sell a unit because it is an artform and thay are making a statement with their designs. From electronics, to material to presentation - it all has to be the pinnacle.

    There is much to be said for clean power, vibration free components, components matched for performance, room treatments, engineering and physics.

    Consumer gear sounds like MP3 compared to high end gear, but as the average /. "expert" will tell you "I cain't tell the durn difference!". (And I'm the one with the superiority complex?)

  • If you like non-upgradable damn near almost propiterary solutions, then I guess a Destination is for you.

    I had to reinstall the OS/Apps for one of these from scratch at work. I was using Windows 98 SE. Bad, bad, mistake. The components inside those systems are awfully strange and only seem to like perfectly with their factory-preinstalled Windows 95. I spent literally about two months before I got everything working in Win98 SE, and still the Tuner software doesn't deal with the audio channels perfectly. It requires you to pick one input then go back to TV before it actually starts feeding audio. The multimedia software isn't somewhat buggy, it's really buggy. I couldn't get audio to the DVD for weeks. Spent hours on the phone with Gateway support (who don't even officially support anything other than 95 on the system). They replaced the DVD Drive, the internal audio cables, the sound card. I kept explaining to them I didn't think the hardware was bad at all. I was right. For the DVD to work in 98 SE it required just the right combination of factory/downgraded/MS Default/updated drivers. I don't think I'd ever be able to duplicate that again (three cheers for Norton Ghost!)

    Fresh out of the box, a Destination is probably a beautiful thing. Anyone who wants to use a relatively modern operating system it will be a nightmare for. And don't even THINK of using Linux on one. The insides of those systems are a nightmare. Multiple inputs to multiple inputs on seemingly custom designed cards. Barely an industry standard thing inside the beasts.

  • Re:THX (Score:2)

    by Splat ( 9175 )
    tada.wav - PCM 22,050 kHz, 16 Bit, Stereo
    ding.wav - PCM 22,050 kHz, 16 Bit, Stereo

    It won't sound better - at all. The major fault I see with THX inside a PC is the uninformed buying public will expect all audio coming out of their PC to automagically become THX. Unless your source material is THX, which very little material from a PC is, it will sound just the same as it would from a good pair of speakers.

    19 inch monitor, or 43 inch TV. Good point. I'll take the TV any day of the week.
  • The computer should be digital only as far as sound goes. Let the digital come out on optics to feed a good decoder/receiver. My MIDI is external and opto coupled. Result - no ground loops or digital noise. Good sound should be this way and not subject to the digital hash inside a PC box.
  • Well, i'm not into HT so I dunno.. As long as we're talking music, the stuff on goodsound (and particularly what i got - paradigm monitor 3's speakers, NAD cd changer and NAD integrated amp) - result in a far better sound than sub+5sats for $600 from sony. But of course, it's much better than stuff that is usually available for pc audio... Basically, if you want good music sound, audition paradigm speakers at a hifi store.. Chances are you'll be impressed, although it depends on music too. For instance, I used to be dep mode and pet shop boys fan, and with their music it doesn't seem to make all that much difference. For my current fave - PF - it makes tons of difference, though. With all the atmospheric sounds and stuff...
  • there are two problems with that card:

    1. it is too expensive - especially if you want the live platinum, for it's s/pdif outputs. This wouldn't be so bad if not for the other problem...

    2. every sound that travels through the card is resampled to 48Khz, and then back to the orignial rate. This muddies up the sound.
  • THX really stands for "We're milking you for every single penny you got". Really, go ahead and spend a whole buch of cash on something that has 3 well known letters attached to it.
    I don't think its something to get so hyped up about. Klipsch [klipsch.com] has their Pro-Media's. Don't get me wrong, they're very nice, but theres lots of other nice speakers out there too, that don't cost so much. Sadly, they don't come with the status THX symbol.

  • Re:THX certification (Score:4)

    by bryan1945 ( 301828 ) on Thursday January 18, 2001 @03:12PM (#497588) Journal
    Yes and no. There is no such thing as a THX "solution". But there is such a thing as THX certified components. In the (non-theater) world, there are 2 levels of THX- select and something else whose name evades me for the moment.

    Each component type, say a receiver, must meet certain technical details such as power per channel, types of decoding, dB rolloff at certain frequencies, etc. If a component meets all the specs it is then THX certified. Due to the requirements, certified equipment tends to cost more. Of course, the pretty logo will probably increase sales.

    Now, all of this is well and good; but, it doesn't automatically mean that some THX equipment will sound great. A great receiver with $3 speakers is just gonna blow. Plus such things as room size, speaker placement, acoustics, etc., are important to the final sound of the system.

    Which brings me to my main point (finally!). It's great and all to have equipment that meet certain technical requirements, but watching a DVD on a PC is most likely to be 1/10th as good as watching a DVD on a mid-sized TV with an ok stereo system.

    Analysis- a bunch of technical specs aimed at a less than suitable platform to generate marketing hype. Yes, better than the standard PC with average monitor and speakers, but I'll take my home theatre (such as it is) any day.

  • Well, you can go far if you use insanely large cables... 12 gauge would do fine for normal sized runs though, no need to worry about noise with such a heavy cable... The computer speakers we get come with pathetic 22 or 24 awg cables, no wonder why they sound awful.
  • The Dell THX certified systems all have a few things in common.
    First of all, they all have an nVidia GeForce 2 or GeForce 2 Ultra. Secondly, they all have the Turtle Beach Santa Cruz Sound Card. The Santa Cruz has a digital out port called the Versa Jack. The Versa Jack can act as analog in, digital out, and stuff like that. The Versa jack sends the AC-3 (WinDVD sends the output directly to the sound card which just passes it through without processing it at all) digital output straight to the speakers which decode it.
    In this case, the EMI shouldn't interfere with the output from the sound card. The speakers are the Altec Lansing ADA 885s.
    Hopefully this gives some people a better understanding of what we're talking about.
  • THX certification for pc's is part of the plan to make theaters fully digital. If the equiptment is cheep it is more likely that the theaters will upgrade. Just think movies without the little circles discribed in Fight Club or when geeks go see Antitrust they can notice that the taskbar is showing during the movie. Worse case senrerio is people acualy start making movies with their iMacs like the guy from The Fly does.

    Travis

  • I thought the sony home-theater-in-a-box I've got, with a "big sub" and 5 satellite speakers (dav-s300 us$600 list price) is good enough, and I also saw a lot of good reviews before buying it.

    Any difference between this one and pc speaker systems (like the cambridge soundworks 4 point) I got for my pc?

    Anyway, at the dolby site, they say that for 5.1 surround is best to have the the same model for the 5 speakers.

    Any enlightment for me?

  • This is exactly why I moved over to Kuro5hin [kuro5hin.org]
    Besides, Inoshiro is cute.
  • For some good advice on audiophile-grade systems and equipment try goodsound [goodsound.com]. I followed their advice and I got a system that sounds better than I ever imagined possible. I did pay over $1k, though - but you can go lower, about $500 for cd, amp and pair of speakers.. or even less if they're used (not a good idea generally if you're not already experienced).
  • does this mean that i will be pestered by ushers to put away my lightsaber????????? =)
  • > this isnt what computers should be about. Rubbish. All audio/video is going digital. Computers are the logical choice! > If you want to watch DVD's, a computer screen > isnt what you should view them with. True, but a PC can be used to drive a projector, a SDTV, a HDTV, even a regular TV via s-video. Home Theatre PCs are producing *the best* video signals available, and for a hell of a lot cheaper than highend scalers/doublers etc. > If you want to listen to music, no sound card > in the world can match a proper hi-fi system. Rubbish. 24bit 96kHz `audiophile' grade cards have been out for a while now, and they kick the pants off most HiFi DACs, as well as being able to pass pure 16bit 44.1kHz, 24bit 44.1kHz, 24bit 48kHz, 24bit 96kHz... > they will not turn to computers like these for > the solution. A digital HiFi/Home Theatre is basically an embedded computer. Think about it. -- niall@holbytla.org
  • Now we know why Lucasarts spent all that time and effort to remove the 'THX' startup sound .WAV file from websites over the past few years. They wanted to charge you for it.

    By the way, here are a few recent locations of the THX startup sound that haven't been taken down by LucasLaws, Inc:

  • THX is bull (Score:4)

    by ywwg ( 20925 ) on Thursday January 18, 2001 @05:14PM (#497598) Homepage
    DVD fans have known for a while that THX certification is basically a sticker you can buy. If you pay Lucas enough money, he'll give you THX certification for your DVD. My guess is this applies to these systems too. read this little rant [dvdfile.com]on dvdfile.com for info about what I'm talking about.
  • Or DVD drive? Or HDD? Talk about your noisy components. I still love DVD on my PC (finally, a compact, portable, non degrading movie format!) but damn if all those spinning things aren't LOUD.

  • I guess it could, but I consider midsize to be in the 30+ inch range. Not really based on any true metric, so take it for what it is... just a number!
  • One of Lucas' best. But so sad (seeing those 60's Trumph Motorbikes get trashed). Didn't we all wince when that guy got his ear stapled.

  • For THX Multimedia support (not the same THX standard as for [home-]theater), the recognized favorite speaker rig for gamers is the Klipsch Promedias [klipsch.com]. They've been available for around $250 for, oh, I dunno, forever, making Dell's announcement sorta unremarkable.

    Interested readers may want to check the forums and reviews 3D Sound Surge [3dss.com] to see how these speakers fare against speakers from Videologic, Cambridge Soundworks, and Aletec Lansing (which in my circle have somewhat of a rep for poor-quality construction).

    < tofuhead >

  • I first heard about THX perhaps 10 years ago in an article in Speaker Builder magazine. The idea was fantastic, Lucas was tired of going to theatres with crappy sound systems which didn't allow you to enjoy the music.

    At that time the THX certification meant that not only was the sound system of a high calibre, but the theatre itself had been designed with quality acoustics in mind. It was a certification that only the very best theatres were capable of receiving.

    Then I guess they decided they needed some more money for the Lucas studios because they started slapping THX on home audio/video equipment. Still it was typically good equipment that you found this label on.

    Now, what is it? More money, or is Dell hoping to be buzzword compliant?

    I can't believe they'd slap a THX label on a cheap tinny Altec Lansing computer speaker setup.

    Sheesh, you'll get better sound spending the same money on a pair of PSB Alpha's and a small NAD integrated amp. Yeah, it may not be "surround" but it'll sure sound better.
  • I don't know if anyone remembers the (now defunct) Gateway Destination systems, but I have one. This is THE most "convergent" system I've seen. It is basically a 300 Mhz P2 with 36" monitor(800x600 max resolution) and Boston Acoustics DigitalTheater 6000 Dolby 5.1 Surround System, and a proprietary hardware/software combo consisting of 3 RCA inputs and outputs in the back (for my CD changer, cable and VCR), and (somewhat buggy) multimedia software. An article from Stereophile (7/98) describes it here. [guidetohometheater.com] I plan to upgrade to an all new system, with a HDTV projector. But adequate sound output (like the BA I have now) was always an issue. Hopefully this little announcement will spark some interest in audio manufacturers.
  • Back around 1990, I had a friend (Charlie Kellner) who demonstrated to me how to build my own THX system to me... In case you can't find relevant credits, he was one of the people who *designed* THX... How do you build a THX compliant system? Purchase a Hush IIc preamp, you can get these anywhere from $50 to $250 through miscellaneous music amp suppliers... (try Rocktron)... Use that and you have your THX sound system... Several steps cheaper than buying a "true" THX system... Mind you, I built mine in concurrance with a Carver C-1 (serial number 000009) sonic holography preamp, the resulting effect creating 3D surround with only 2 speakers, jumping when sounds from Blade Runner emanated behind me without the extra speakers...
  • Will they run Linux?
  • Just what I need, more reasons to bitch to the apartment management about my fscking neighbours' computer sound levels...

    "Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."

  • digital only AC3 and/or DTS sound cards? (Score:4)

    by grappler ( 14976 ) on Thursday January 18, 2001 @02:37PM (#497608) Homepage
    What I'd really like is a sound card that does no analog processing and has coaxial and optical outputs for dolby digital(AC3) and possibly DTS streams. I've got an audio system that can take it from there.

    Besides DVD support, I'd also like the sound card (or the drivers for it) to support the OpenAL 3d audio standard - besides support for games, there are other uses. I am writing software for data visualization, and that data has an audio component. 3d sound support would be a great addition to the current OpenGL app I have right now.
  • No....THX certification is based on sound quality of the components, including the Dolby Digital Processor, amplifier, and speakers...

  • Review of Dell THX System (Score:5)

    by XBL ( 305578 ) on Thursday January 18, 2001 @02:37PM (#497610)
    on Sharky Extreme [sharkeyextreme.com]. He basically says it is nothing special.
  • d00d, does this mean I can use my 31337 m5tr1x KDE theme and watch the Matrix at the SAME TIME!?

    -antipop
  • That got our attention - The Audience Is Listening!

    Sorry ... somebody had to say it - didn't they? :)

  • If so, is the sound better than a ~$1000-1500 Stereo/Speakers
  • ... have been certified THX for a couple years now.... specifically the ProMedia's.

    www.klipsch.com [klipsch.com]
  • Funny that lucasfilm/lucasarts/lucas conglomerate should be the one to initiate that...sorta like the movie theater's requirements for screening Episode one....largest theater, minimum number of screenings per week/day, skywalker or other THX soundsystems.....ewokskin upholstered seats etc...

    don't get me wrong, lucaseverything has certainly pioneered the sound and film industry with their sound systems and their digitally screened/filmed movies. I am impressed with what they have done, just not impressed enough to spend $2000 on the latest. :)

  • This reminds me of some super blown up shots of a scene rendered with Full Screen Anti-Aliasing on both a Voodoo5 and a Geforce2. That was the only way you could see any difference between the two because at 1000 pixels wide, there wasn't much. Seems to me that sound especially has gotten to the point where you can't tell the difference between a really expensive sound card and an SB Live for $40. Why waste all this cash if you're not looking at the tiny details because a Cyber Demon is hot on your tail?
  • Don't worry, they measure up to Bose and surpass it. Haven't you figured out? Bose is yet another one of those marketing scams, like THX... Their speaker systems would go for 1/10th their current price... total wastes of money...
  • What I'd really like is a sound card that does no analog processing and has coaxial and optical outputs for dolby digital(AC3) and possibly DTS streams

    RIAA would never allow this. It would allow people to rip cds with little to no error in less time than it takes now.

  • It seems to me that although it obviously has great multimedia capabilities, this isnt what computers should be about. If you want to watch DVD's, a computer screen isnt what you should view them with. If you want to listen to music, no sound card in the world can match a proper hi-fi system. For those truly interested in these areas, they will not turn to computers like these for the solution.
  • FSAA does have huge wins, especially when a games maximum resolution is limited. For example, Escape From Monkey Island (Lucasarts, 2000) is locked to 640x480. The difference between regular and FSAA on my Geforce 2MX at home was highly apparent on my 19" monitor. After turning it on, I couldn't bear to go back.

    Sure, FSAA'ing a 1600x1200 image may have almost no visible improvements. But, once you see what it can do at lower resolutions, you don't want to go back.

    Nathan Mates

  • THX & Noise (Score:4)

    by jthomas2 ( 102083 ) on Thursday January 18, 2001 @03:22PM (#497621)
    IMHO, THX certification should require PC's have maximum audiable noise specs. That would have PC makers think about noise reduction measures.


    -Jay Thomas
    http://www.uiuc.edu/~jthomas2 [uiuc.edu]

  • Hmm... i think THX has already been on the desktop for ~1 1/2 years in the form of the 4.1 Klipsh Pro Media [gamers.com] speakers. I'm not an audiophile, but u don't have to be one to know that these speakers sound very good for what you would pay for them ($400 CAN).

    I may not be hardcore into sound, but i know that 400 watts RMS on the sub and 60 watts on each satellite is pretty decent.

    Anyway i think that Dell is playing catchup and they do not in fact have anything THAT new.


    Ceres

  • It IS nothing special ... (Score:3)

    by SuperRob ( 31516 ) on Thursday January 18, 2001 @03:24PM (#497623) Homepage
    It's a completely arbitrary standard. The speakers are THX certified, but that's about it. The rest of the machine is a fairly cookie-cutter Dell multimedia machine.

    The black & silver case and the black Trinitron monitor are very slick looking, though. If it weren't a fuckin' P4, I'd get one.

    By the way, Altec Lansing has better speakers available ... the ADA-890. Same THX certification.

  • Or you could just raise your kids the way you want, explain to them that various people have different views and will try to subvert you to their beliefs, and stay involved with your child.

    Of course, my mom, who has been an elementary school playground monitor for 18 years, keeps telling me that the school is going to "hell in a handbasket".

    Next time, try presenting your views with less rhetoric and degredation, and you will most likely get your point across.

    Of course, WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING POSTING THIS CRAP HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Sorry for replying to myself. Bad form, I know.

    Klipsch ProMedias are available for order in BTO Compaq PCs. So Dell's new product is doubly-unremarkable.

    < tofuhead >

  • You're totally right. I would *love* to have one of those FSAA boards and I'm very jealous of you. I meant that the difference between the Voodoo and Geforce algorithms were so small that only when an image was zoomed way in could you tell that 3dfx's was slightly better. So why waste the extra $50 for an overpriced Voodoo5?
  • here [zdnet.com] and here. [zdnet.com] These are from PcMag.com

    I'd term them both as cautiously enthusiastic.

    -s

  • Yeah, it had nice sound.. too bad the rest of the game was crap..

    Ultima XII til I die! ;)

    Justin
  • Sony? well, for the price, it *might* be good, but if you are looking for very low end setups, go Kenwood. Usually you want to stay away from electronic makers such as Sony who make everything. And yes, the same type of speaker is good, it promotes an ideal setup where sound from all places are the same, takes a more neutral approach, no speaker overpowers the other. The soundstage is much better when all satellites are the same; my home theater setup consists of 5 identical cube speakers (cambridge soundworks) and sounds fantastic (350$ too)...
  • Chances of any of these systems running linux by defualt is slim to nil.

    unlike Dolby Digital, THX is not a method of producing sound and video it is a standard in which to gauge the quality of them. Those that measure up are certified. Now even if all the hardware in the system get certified, I doubt if any company is willing to foot the bill to try and certify and kind of software that isn't microsoft based, thus any other kind of software would nix the certification.

    So you'll have THX speakers, monitor, and video hardware, but with linux you lose the complete system.

    Shame

  • Re:THX is bull (Score:3)

    by logicTrAp ( 2864 ) on Thursday January 18, 2001 @06:38PM (#497631) Homepage
    Amen. Anyone who doubts this should go rent the "THX Certified" Highlander DVD. Crap video, crap audio. And "THX Certified" VHS tapes? Sigh...
  • THX 'theater' certification is not free and it's not cheap. For a cineplex to become THX certified, a certified Lucasfilm engineer has to perform SEVERAL tests such as ambient sound levels, proper viewing angles, etc., etc. ( see http://www.thx.com/theatres/sound_criteria.html ), and of course make sure that the theater is using THX certified equipment.

    Now, home theaters, it really just bears down to certified equipment ( amps, speakers, interconnects, etc. ). You can, of course, have the room certified, that's a lot of money.

    I think that THX certified computer is just a half-assed THX certification. Read the mission statement and the reasoning behind THX, and you'll find that it was to provide the audience with an 'theatrical atmosphere' that most closely resembles what the director wanted someone to experience the movie. I don't think that the James Cameron wanted his audience to watch T2 crouched around a computer desk staring at a 19" monitor...

    I think having THX certified PCs is just something to brag about... I don't ever expect a PC to outperform the quality of a THX certified home theater.

    But... if you have the money to drop on the system, I can't stop you.

  • The THX certification on VHS casettes simply means that the video and audio on the casette stands up the best possible video and audio that can be displayed with VHS according to THX. Although VHS sucks compared to laserdisc and DVD there still should be a standard and THX made one. Although I think it's mainly to cash in on the lucrative home movie market. (I don't think certification is free)
  • Not according to this link [dromo.com]
  • Uhhh.... didn't Klipsch sorta take the whole THX certifacation first? Ohh and BTW KLIPSCH v2.400 ROCK! Never have you heard such good speakers. j00 ph33r! thx
  • Funny, I think new speakers are a great reason to bitch to the management : My neighbors keep banging on the friggin walls all the time. They just bang so damned loud, I have to turn up my music to hear it =)

    I don't need new speakers though, I just need a 400 sq.ft. sound proof booth =)
  • Well, you can go far if you use insanely large cables... 12 gauge would do fine for normal sized runs though, no need to worry about noise with such a heavy cable... The computer speakers we get come with pathetic 22 or 24 awg cables, no wonder why they sound awful.

    Personaly I wouldn't even use cable cables. Optical fiber would be the best way to connect a computer to an amp. In the past, every time i have ever tired to use copper cabling, regradless of size, I have always got noise. Only one sound card I know of has optical links the Creative Labs Soundblaster LIVE! Platinum 5.1 and that's with a drive bay.

  • THX is a certification standard, not a technology.
    THX certification requires all the audio components in your system to meet strict, specific requirements for quality. Also, the PC certification is different from the home audio certification last time I checked (the link is slashdotted right now so I don't know if it's been updated).

    You're probably thinking of DTS or Dolby Digital, which are digital formats that you can use on a capable audio system, including THX-certified ones.
  • I have the Klipsch as well-- and my audio source is probably better than the THX-certified one in the Dell system (Santa Cruz).

    I actually have two soundcards, an SB Live! for gaming and some MIDI work, going into a Mackie mixer. For MP3's and digital audio work I have an old Turtle Beach Pinnacle soundcard with s/pdif going into a Tascam DAT which can function as an external DAC, then into the mixer and the speakers. The Pinnacle is a few years old, and it's ISA, but it has better analog and digital IO than any mainstream consumer soundcard today. That is some killer sound quality, though only the Live uses all 4 speakers.
  • 2000-11-22 17:26:54 Lucasfilm + Dell = THX computer! (articles,news) (rejected)

    bah. Old news.
  • that makes no sense. Right now, I could rip a cd (they're encoded in stereo anyway, unless you mean the new Dvd audio or sacd formats) and send it over a 100BaseT ethernet pretty damn fast.

    One benefit of outputs like this would be that you could rip the sound of a concert dvd, or one of the new music formats, retaining the 5.1 channel separation, and compress it with a format like ogg vorbis, and then play it later over your digital sound card. Which is _exactly_ what I plan on doing.
  • As I've always understood it, you cannot go out and buy a THX-certified ``solution'' (for lack of a better word). In order for something to be THX-certified, a THX engineer has to come out to the site and inspect all the equipment, take readings, and so on. Only his word makes something THX-certified. I assume some osrt of certificate is installed.

    At the same time, I've never quite understood why there are THX logos on certain home entertainment products. I've assumed that it means that that component can be part of a THX-certified solution. Not that others can't, but you've got a better shot, THX has found it to be of superior quality, etc.

    Of course, this could all just apply to movie theaters. Maybe they have more relaxed restrictions for consumer products.

  • Okay, this is totally off-topic, but...

    To me, the motion of aliased straight lines (jaggies) really distracts me. It's like a moving moire pattern. Shudder.

  • Tthose are the speakers that were developed for Compaq and their THX system. THX requires speakers as well as sound source to be compliant. Speakers are just one piece of the puzzle. One awesome piece! (have some at home)
  • This appears to be nothing more than a ploy to get people to purchase more Dell components, and to further line the pockets of Lucasfilms. There's no indication that it will go to further the experience of the home PC user.

    There's no evidence of any objective, published metric that may be used to certify the performance of a particular system, and even if they did attempt to make one, the variation in listening space of the home user (unlike a movie theater) is going to render those specifications essentially irrelevant.

    I ask - how much money would it cost a vendor to say that they're THX-certified? Then we'll know what the real purpose is of the metric - it's my guess that Lucasfilm is just playing the old Dolby tricks, and extracting licensing fees to use the marketing logo.

    What we may see is other vendors who will claim that they 'surpass' THX specifications, if they're ever actually published. I hope they do this, and do it without paying out royalties - Lucasfilm doesn't deserve them for this. Until they actually make a real technological contribution, they shouldn't get a dime.

  • Good Resources on HTPC (Score:3)

    by Tim McNerney ( 7987 ) on Thursday January 18, 2001 @02:55PM (#497646) Homepage
    Stereohpile's Guide to Home Theater has had an excellent set of home theater PC articles over the last six months or so. It's definitely worth checking out for details on what is out there and what works well.

    Check out:

    http://www.guidetohometheater.com/pcinema.shtml [guidetohometheater.com]
    http://www.guidetohometheater.com/shownews.cgi?760 [guidetohometheater.com]
    http://www.guidetohometheater.com/shownews.cgi?817 [guidetohometheater.com]
    http://www.guidetohometheater.com/shownews.cgi?843 [guidetohometheater.com]

    The more recent articles are not on their website, but are available in the print edition, though they mostly cover new software players. Definitely check out the first item listed and follow the links to the manufacturers of turnkey HTPC systems.

  • I am not sure I agree. Though it sounds like you have much more experience in the high end, I think a well done multi-track soundtrack with multiple sound sources would be better than even the greatest of stereo. I espouse this belief due to the fact that (once again, if done correctly) multiple (physical) sound sources would more accurately reproduce an immersive sound experience.

    With THX theaters, I totally agree! Many people equate loud sound with good sound- total bs.

    BTW, what was the best sound system you have ever heard?
  • In case anyone was wondering if there was anything out there that actually would make use of this, the now defunct Origin Systems spent $1M+ on a THX-certified sound studio and used it to create all the sound & music for Ultima IX. Didn't help Origin in the end (unfortunately for us Ultimaphiles, U9 was a colossal sales failure and lead to EA absorbing the once proud company into itself) but it did have nice sound :)

    Wood Shavings!
  • Considering the quality of most main stream movies now-a-days, I'll take home-made movies. Of course this is coming from a guy who likes "Blair Witch Project" and the original "Evil Dead". Take it or leave- just no flaming on how bad Blair Witch was; I've heard your arguments and rhetoric, and I still like it.
  • Are you kidding?!?!?!

    400 watts on the sub will probably outrate 90% of peoples' home theater's sub. 60 watt sats is a lot, also. How big are those things?
  • PC's are too noisy to even do justice to CD quality audio, let alone whatever niceness THX offers. I'm certain that this is why so many people can't tell the difference between MP3 and CD audio -- because they're sitting right next to a PC that has four fans and a couple 7200rpm hard drives.

    Try bringing a hair dryer into the next symphony that you attend :)

  • Yes and no. For shielded cable, long length and wide gauge is fine. But if the cable is not shielded, longer cables lengths invite more frequencies to hop onto the cable.

    And yes, Onkya has some pretty tasty equipment!
  • 400 total, 60x4 for the sats and 160 for the sub.

    -----------------------

  • hah... sorry... ya... Datafage is right... 160 for the sub... :)

    Ceres
  • You know, THX stuff is very very expensive. Adding THX to a receiver adds about $200-300 to its price, for what is known as "reference quality" components. If Lucasfilm is okaying entire THX-ready computer systems for under $2000, they are GUARANTEED to be lower quality than other THX certified components. Besides, I've seen the "top of the line Dolby Digital" setups from Dell, and they're utter crap, even compared to a sub $400 integrated DD/DVD solution from Kenwood. What this cert. means is not good news of high quality tech for pc theatre enthusiasts (which is a bit like saying "hyundai accent driving enthusiasts"), but bad news for real videophiles: Lucasfilm's THX rating is now officially nothing more than a brand name. It means nothing. And the extra money I *could* have spent on a nice McIntosh MC500 power amp but instead laid into various THX certified speakers and components is now an even worse mistake than I worried it might be.

  • ...I've heard of in a while. Hmm... watching movies on your PC. Listening to music through your PC. Makes me laugh. I don't know of anyone, not a soul, who thinks this is a good idea. Oh sure, a few think it's clever or mildly interesting, but not one person I know has even considered trading in their TV or stereo setups and started done their viewing or listening on their computers. Not one. Hell, I have a hard enough time trying to recreate a reasonable facsimile of the ``theatre experience'' with my modest stereo/TV setup. Why would I want to try doing it in an even smaller space.

    Sure it can be done but why would you want to? And why the heck do you want to spend $2000 to be able to do those things. No computer system that you can afford will match the picture quality or sound quality of a nice A/V stereo setup. At least when I'm in my family room watching a movie or listening to music I don't have to listening to spinning disk drives or muffin fans. And sitting in front of a computer is not as comfortable as sitting in a nice easy chair with a bowl of popcorn.

    Besides, I can think of a few dozen ways I'd rather be spending $2000 on computer equipment that don't involve attempting to turn it into a home entertainment center. (Actually, with the amazingly low quality of the majority of TV programs, movies, and worst of all, music releases, my computer is my home entertainment center. A couple of hours working with Apache/PHP/PostgreSQL is, generally, much more enjoyable than the equivalent amount of time spent watching television.)

    Take a break from the effin' computer once in a while... unless, of course, you have some real computing to do. But, cripes, if you want to see a movie go to a theatre (or rent it and watch it on a decent TV) or attend a live concert (buy CDs from the band and support the musicians in a way that the RIAA doesn't). Get a life.



    --

  • Yeah, I have the same problem when I'm watching DVD's on my computer, the dvd spin is annoying, it really takes away from the sound of my (admittedly, relatively modest) surround system. I therefore install "proffesional sound baffles" (also known as pillows ;) around the case leaving enough gaps big enough for a bit of air flow (hoping the soft pillow material will absorb more sound than it reflects out.
  • I purchased one of these baby's last April, it lasted for three months before the sub blew, so I got a replacement. I got the replacement, worked fine for 3 months, and then pop *acrid smell* fizzle, sub's dead. The sub came back the week I was going to call for another replacement, and just yesterday died again (filling my computer room with a wonderful smell...). So screw you Dell, OEM sucks ass and I am disgusted that THX AND Altec-Lansing would lend their names to such crappy workmanship.

    I'll be calling you for a replacement tomorrow...

    Capt. Ron

  • Godd sound does not lie in a computer (Score:5)

    by StandardDeviant ( 122674 ) on Thursday January 18, 2001 @02:55PM (#497659) Homepage Journal

    Don't get me wrong, I like hearing my mp3s at "good enough" quality and various honks and tweets from first person shooters, but I'm also an audiophile. Even if you could somehow get standalone-amplifier sound quality from a computer card (hint: it ain't happening any time soon; decoding is one thing but amplification with clarity is entirely another), most computer speaker setups I've seen are just _wrong_. They all seem to revolve around 2 to n small, tweeter-sized speaker boxes, and one "big" subwoofer. The problem is this completely b0rks the midrange sound reproduction of the system (the more different speaker sizes (for cone speakers), the more discrete bands of sound you can reproduce at a time).

    So if this new THX system has just a good, line-out only, decoder-only card, with a pamplet telling the end user how to buy a good amplifier (go Onkyo! :-) ) and good speakers (personal preference here, but practically anything mainstream home audio is better than the crap the computer manufacturers pawn off on people), then they're doing the right thing. Otherwise it's just a marketing gimmick. (Note also that THX certification is highly overrated, in that it is possible to qet audio kit that meets or exceeds the THX certifcation standards, but lacks the logo because the manufacturer didn't want to pony up the USD$100K (IIRC) that logo cost.)

    If they aren't shielding the audio subsystem from EMF they're definitely doing it as a marketing gimmick. EMF does not do nice things to audio reproduction, and the inside of a computer case isn't exactly a low EMF area... ;-)

    To do surround sound _well_, your're probably looking at USD$600-1200 for a good amp and $500-1500 for speakers; with virtually unlimited upward headroom for cost expansion (e.g. vapor deposition speakers, which a really cool, and really expensive (saw a set once of 4 speakers a center and a sub that cost $60K)). This is for a system that would do a DVD encoded in 5.1 justice; that changes it from watching a movie to _feeling_ the movie. It sounds like a lot of money, but then once you've heard it it's hard to go back. :-)

    One last random note for those of you who're contemplating hooking up your computer to your stereo: use the absolute minimum cable length you can -- noise increases with cable length (c.f. SCSI).


    --
    Fuck Censorship.
  • Why not just plug into the USB port, and create a driver to just listen to the 1s and 0s as they would come to the Sound card?

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