So Long, Digerati: The Vanishing Digital Divide 147
As recently as three years ago, studies showed that the majority of Net users were similiar -- high-income, tech-savvy, mostly white, male and very career-minded. They constituted a highly tech-centered subset of the population, a distinct techno-elite.
Their understanding of and experience with technology was radically different from that of most Americans, few of whom were online. Included in this group were the people literally constructing the elements of the computer revolution, and building the Net and the Web. There was consequently a powerful class element to computing -- poor, older and blue-collar people were, by and large, not involved.
That has changed, suddenly and dramatically. Despite media reports of a tech slump, computer and Net use is exploding, and among all age groups and class, racial and ethnic categories. As many suspect, the much-hyped tech slump has mostly hit poorly run, ill-conceived dot.coms, not mainstream technological use or growth.
And boy, has the Net gone mainstream:
According to Nielsen/NetRatings, 56 percent of the U.S. population, nearly 154 million peoople, accessed the Net in the month of November, 2000 alone. This represents a whopping 30 percent increase over the previous year alone.
The average age of the Net user, reports ZDNet, is now 39 years, and rising. At the same time, their average education -- 38 percent hold a college degree -- is falling.
So is their socio-economic status. One of the dominant characters of tech culture has been it's affluent, educated, tech-centeredness. No longer true. The fastest-growing segment of Web newcomers are Americans over 55 years old with working-class incomes, older members of minority groups, blue-collar workers, and people with decidedly non-tech interests and backgrounds. The new generation of wired Americans, says American Demographics, looks "increasingly like the folks who cruise your local Wal-Mart." From the surveys, they are clearly drawn online by e-mail, other messaging systems, and especially, entertainment and related communities.
These new figures don't mean that all poor people actually have computers or are even online. Members of the underclass -- especially minorities -- continue to lag behind when it comes to access to computing. But the divide is definitely shrinking, and faster that all but a few starry-eyed visionaries ever predicted.
This means that in the United States, Net users are no longer a monolithic group with anything resembling a common view, either of the Net, technology or other political issues. There are so many different people of different backgrounds using the Net in different ways that the very idea of a typical Net user -- or a digital citizen -- has vanished.
Despite that, the tech core -- the geeks, nerds, programmers, designers will almost surely continue a separate entity, shaping and and influencing computing and the evolution of the Net and Web.
But clearly, there are other significant constituencies online now as well, and the class differences are interesting. The newcomers are different from the first generation of Net users, primarily because they aren't as interested in the underlying technology, but see the Net much as they see TV, a focal point for varied activities.
There are other differences as well. In fact, says Nielsen, last May the number of women online surpassed the number of men for the first time. And Harris Interactive reports that the online community has grown by more than 900 per cent over the past six years.
This new reality will change the political and economic environment surrounding the Net. It will be a lot tougher for politicians to demonize cyberspace as a nest of theives and perverts now that many of their constituents are regularly online. Nor can Net users be dismissed as an arrogant elite.
The new American Demographics data shows some surprising trends -- the poorer the user, the more time they are apt to spend online. Why? Because many upscale Americans are Web-surfing vets who have bookmarked their favorite sites, and know how to use search engines efficiently. Nielsen//NetRatings says that Internet users now frequent an average of only 10 sites per month, down from 15 just one year ago. While on those 10 sites, they are digging deeper, reading more pages than they used to.
Another class factor is Net work access -- those who lack the ability to surf the Web at the office (blue collar workers in particular) are more inclined to go online at home. Another socioeconomic difference is that more affluent Net users go online to gather information, access services or data, while poorer Net users are more likely to go on the Net for amusement or entertainment.
The study has enormous political and economic implications. Vast potential new markets are coming online for businesses, despite all of the hysteria about the dropping NASDAQ. These numbers make it more, not less, likely that the Net will soon have an impact on new forms of retailing, and on the political system. It means the entertainment industry has bigger problems than Napster. Issues like copyright and intellectual property will move beyond colleges and into the broad population, as these newcomers are particularly interested in accessing entertainment information and content online.
The much ballyhooed Digital Divide isn't quite bridged. But it appears to be growing inevitably smaller. And like it or not, the Digerati will soon be rubbing elbows with the hoi-polloi.
democraphics? (Score:1)
The net is just like cars (Score:4)
Then, Henry Ford decided to apply production line technology to autos, pay his workers a good wage, and the masses were able to afford autos.
Timewise, comparing computers to autos, I think we're at about 1930. This is well before expressways, suburbs and drivethroughs, if that makes you think.
The Average age is 39 and rising (Score:1)
I'm not against this but.... (Score:1)
Let's hope that with increased Net usage, general computer usage skills of the average American increase as well....
sigh.. (Score:1)
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Don't worry Jon... (Score:1)
Other derivatives of "Take this job and shove it." (Score:1)
Derek Fawcus to the MPAA upon release of DeCSS: "You can take your Content Scrambling System and shove it."
LAME team to Fraunhofer IIS: "You can take your sluggish, proprietary fast fourier transform method and shove it."
ShugaShack users to George Broussard on February 7, 2001 [shacknews.com] after the cease-and-desist order on DIOQ3: "You can take your intellectual property issue and shove it."
Tech Slump == Market Slump (Score:1)
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informed (Score:1)
Members of the underclass -- especially minorities -- continue to lag behind when it comes to access to computing.
Which minority would this be, according to statistics, Latins outnumber whites, and blacks are just slightly under whites as well. I guess you meant the Chinese, or something.
Anyways just think about what the snippet posted said and look from another angle, so poorer classes are online now (or Wired). This does not mean they will be purchasing anything online at any time soon, in fact the way I took this article, I'm thinking too poor to have a credit card, so bye bye e-commerce.
Now on a downside to having a slew of newer users, yuo have higher bandwidth, so it'll cost you more, more people in these lower classes will likely look along the lines of, "Where can I get this for free", which means they still won't be spending. Incidents such as cybercrimes will likely go up as more and more people who've watched movies like The Net, Enemy of the State, The Matrix, will be attempting to act out some of these things, which could at some point force the government to propose strict rules as there are in China, and recently Australia's new non forwarding mail rule.
EOF
Framing Private Ryan [antioffline.com]
The net just got simpler...and cheaper (Score:1)
Only up from here... (Score:1)
As more people jump online as the article states we'll slowly be doing more and more online! Part of the slump was all of the early businesses that started up and couldn't hold on for the motherlode. Wait a while, and see how it flowers...
The Net isn't a FAD
Don't even get me started! (Score:1)
!!!!!
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No the game never ends when your whole world depends
Still a long road (Score:3)
Eternal september. (Score:5)
Oh, yes, they will. Those days you could still keep up with Usenet, the days 99% of posts was relevant to the group and the previous message, those days when "Flame" stood for an intelligent, almost literary rebuttal, instead of moronic incendiary gutter-drivel, the days of the Crystal Cave, the days the 'net _was_ free and open, and abuse and crass commercialism non-existent. They will be missed, Jon, until they pry the keyboard from my cold, dead fingers and nail the coffin shut. And I bet many will agree, if maybe not here.
Stefan.
Re:democraphics? (Score:5)
demo-crap-hics
That is, the people (demo is from "demos", the people -- Jon evidently had a Classical education) are crap (crap) hics (folks from the sticks i.e. backward). Jon is an elitist member of the Digerati living in New York, you see, and he's just as worried about the on-going "AOLization" of the Net as anyone.
Tell it like it is JonKatz! Right on!
International Digital Divide? (Score:1)
Can anyone provide statistics about non-American users?
All things considered, the poor in America are still much better off than most of the rest of the world. So while the picture may be kind of rosy on the home front, it's a sure bet that the rest of the world isn't keeping pace.
The whole notion of a narrowing "digital divide" is small consolation if you live in a place with no health care and no clean running water.
That, of course, is the real divide, but it's not usually of any interest to the American marketing machine.
US leading the way (Score:1)
Point of view diversity (Score:2)
Well maybe, but.. (Score:5)
This is no bad thing, but there is a mistake in thinking they are 'computer literate' instead of just 'net literate'. These new users will hinder, not help, attempts to fight DMCA etc.. because they will be the first to accept, and unquestioningly use, copyright friendly content viewers/players. And are very succeptable to the suggestion that anyone who deviates from this path must be a 'evil nerd/hacker' to be despised, bullied and then called a coward by lame presidents when they finally snap.
sorry, bad mood today.
EZ
There will always be a digital divide. (Score:4)
We're already seeing the end of free tech support, especially in the business world, so I think that this maxim will hold true for computers and software as well. Those who build, maintain, and know how to most effectively use their own code, web sites, etc... will always be the ones on top.
To create 'award winning' websites, for example, one must know the ins and outs of inter-connected systems. A good knowledge of HTML, Javascript, any of the several graphics editors, and the minute differences between the major browsers is necessary to create the front-end of a 'good' site. A better than average knowledge of SQL, a scripting language like Perl, PHP, or something more robust and clunky like Java is necessary for the back-end.
Those who say that 'Microsoft FrontPage' can eliminate the barrier between content producers and users have obviously never to use FrontPage to make a sell-able website.
By the same token, Granny just ain't gonna up and start making kernel patches despite the fact that Junior came over and installed Mozilla and StarOffice on her clunky old P2-200 machine. Even if Granny can wrap her aged mind around the interface, which the folks withe Gnome and KDE have been making better and better, you need some real computer skillz to get down and start editing conf files to make your computer do what you want it to.
While I used an improbable example above, it holds true for every OS. To make it perform... to be a 'digerati' so to speak, you gots to gots to gots to know what you're doing.
Trust me. I'm a professional....
More is less (Score:1)
I don't think so
Just because there are more people on the net, doesn't mean that they are clued.
Refer to The September that never ended [tuxedo.org].
More Warez! (Score:1)
Well, not in Europe I guess... (Score:3)
This will not be the case in most (all?) countries in Europe, because you pay for your phonecalls, and thus being online, per tick or second (yes, even for local calls). So, at least in Holland, it's probably: the poorer you are the less time you spend online, if at all.
How to make a sig
without having an idea
$400 rebate??? (Score:1)
Re:sigh.. (Score:1)
--
days of the digerati (Score:3)
the digerati would certainly be missed were they to disappear, but I think think you parsed that sentence as "those days ... will not be missed". I miss them.
It is a really good thing that more and more people are getting net access, just like it's a great thing that most people have telephones and TVs. There are a lot of benefits filtering up and down from universal access.
But it's also true that elitism can be a very good thing if you are one of the elite. It's nice not to get spam, it's nice to ask questions and get them answered by smart people, etc., i.e. the digerati are great digital neighbors. A lot of that has been swept away by the^H^H^H hoi polloi ("hoi" means "the" in Greek) as we see everywhere and especially on Slashdot. So, yes, universal access is good, and hordes of users supply the add revenue you need, but don't pretend there is something wrong with the digerati, they're great in some unique ways and we'll miss them in every way that they get harder to connect to.
Re:Don't even get me started! (Score:2)
Seriously. And I even like some of Katz's stuff. But quips like that make me wonder if he's ever actually bothered reading this site.
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"You owe me a case of beer. Sucka'."
Re:I'm not against this but.... (Score:1)
They'll do it for the Children! (Score:1)
Interesting Point, But... (Score:1)
Mixed Feelings. (Score:1)
Of course, over the past few years, with the proliferation of free or low-cost access, inexpensive computers, etc... the internet has changed significantly. I curse silently every tiume I get one of those "make a wish and send this message to 10 people to make it come true" or the infamous "Intel/Microsoft/Disney/mega rich corporation will send you $$$$$ for forwarding this message". It's typicaly not the "technosnobs" who send these things, it's the typical "consumer" who does.
As more and more consumers get internet access, more and more of the content will be "dumbed down" for them. Just look at the typical cable television network in any city. There are a few channels with reasonably good content, some of the time, and a whole bunch of channels with nothing of any value. The internet is moving in that direction as more and more people get online.
Now, I know that due to the nature of the internet, there will always be sites with quality content, they'll just be difficult to find.
It will be interesting to see how things evolve over the next few years. I hope that the changes are for the better.
How does this stop the slump? (Score:3)
How does a new influx of internet users change anything? Are they likely to suddenly start buying things from all the dying online stores that do not turn a profit on items sold anyway? Or will they view so many of those ads that do not pay for the bandwidth the site uses? Are you expecting them to all start buying tickets on priceline when the airlines sell the tickets just as cheap?
Or will they all just be a bunch of non-paying content producers/digesters like most of the net users before them.
More users does not mean an end to the internet slump. All of the useless
And in short, everyone will get over the internet, until some huge change (Like easy, cheap, accessible broadband.) comes along to get the net moving again.
How is the tech slump related to Net usage? (Score:1)
Re:Eternal september. (Score:1)
Flames have always stood for personal attacks.
So long, Digerati (Score:1)
Another change, Politician lies will be harder... (Score:1)
Minorities online mean that the old race warlords are also going to be in a fix, suddenly they won't find the world to be a black versus white issue.
The net will be liberating to the minorities who make it there, mainly because they will have the means to find the truth instead of having it spoonfed to them.
The net will be liberating to many people, because now perhaps they will finally be presented with contrary opinions, not ones given to them by their local politician.
Granted some people will use the net to scam voters and minorities, but hey, I actually work with a guy who believed that FOX program saying the moon landings were hoaxes. (and we'er both IT professionals)
TV, the next generation (Score:5)
Note that these views cast the new numbers as consumers to be entertained and marketed to, rather than as participants in information production. And general Net trends these days seem to support this characterization.
The one thing that I will miss about the "digerati" (as Jon calls them) is that they really believed in the Net as a medium to facilitate our communications among ourselves as a group of peers, as members of communities. It appears that the rush of the masses online is drowning out that vision with the somewhat competing vision of the Net as a delivery vehicle for spoon-fed, one-direction-only, cross-tied Valuetainment (tm) marketing. The displacement of the so-called techno-elite in Net demographics has not come without its own price. But so long as the technical core can continue as niche communities on the Net, I guess we have gained much over the truly one-way media of old.
Was there EVER a digital divide? (Score:1)
Electic light: Approx. 40 years to hit 80% of households
Telephone: Approx. 80 years to hit 80%
Television: Just under 15 years for 80%...wow!
Auto: 65 years!
Radio: About 20 years
To have roughly 50% of Americans install a very complex device (relative to the above technologies), and a fairly expensive one at that in under 10 years (when the internet became truly accessible) is pretty darn good, I think.
Re:UK poverty stats (Score:1)
Re:sigh.. (Score:1)
We are the Digerati... (Score:4)
As people have said before those with the real skills will rise to the top. Even if we are hampered by others. The influx of people who believe WWF is real, people who voted for Bush and people who believe in Microsoft will hamper the internet. These people aren't interested in free speech, the DMCA or gnutella. They want hotmail, MSN Messenger and AOL/Time Warner telling them what to watch and read.
The same thing happened with newspaper. In the mid >> late 1800s newspapers were only read by the educated. Now we have the National Enquirer, everything is ground down to the lowest common denominator.
What we need to do is to get rid of free tech support, break up AOL (spam, adverts and nasty software), and remove all restrictions. Mmm now that's my kind of internet.
I see it more like telephones.... (Score:2)
I don't think the net started off in such a fashion, but I see similarities(novelty wearing off, real use...)
I think it's a wonderful thing, when the net reflects more of what WE? are. Suppose, for example, we have more participation in political forums ala net, what do you think will happen?
Or suppose some -o- those po' folk manage to get a better education(managers cringing everywhere) wnd demand a better standard of living.
No, I don't think it's a matter of "Me too"isms. I think people can see more potential than the TV. Bandwidth be damned, people want a creative outlet, not just a better "brain morgue©".(I hope&&pray) People want interactive at a level 'we' never had before. The NET doesn't care if you belong to a country club, own a BMW, or other facades. It exists for the user without typecast(kinda like Javascript, no?)
I like
Nah, my vote is for telephones...
Re:US leading the way (Score:1)
Re:Still a long road (Score:1)
The most important factor in the outcome is the parent. The next factor is the teacher. Funding is lower on the list (you don't need a new computer to teach physics or chemistry)
Once in a while a student can rise above their surroundings and achieve great things without the help of their (often absent) parents, but this is like 1 in 1000.
Re:Eternal september. (Score:1)
Ah, Camelot! (Re:Eternal september.) (Score:1)
Oh, yes, they will. Those days you could still keep up with Usenet, the days 99% of posts was relevant to the group and the previous message, those days when "Flame" stood for an intelligent, almost literary rebuttal, instead of moronic incendiary gutter-drivel, the days of the Crystal Cave, the days the 'net _was_ free and open, and abuse and crass commercialism non-existent. They will be missed, Jon, until they pry the keyboard from my cold, dead fingers and nail the coffin shut. And I bet many will agree, if maybe not here.
Just how far back are we going, Grampa? I started reading newsgroups a couple of years before the September-that-never-ended [tuxedo.org], and absolutely none of the conditions that you mention above obtained. Pretending that, by October, all those clueless newbies either caught the train or dropped out ignores all of those dysfunctional yet persistent perpetual students who eschewed getting a life in favor of ceaselessly trying to exert some sort of control or influence, however negative, on that imaginary world displayed in 80 columns of monospaced type on their CRTs.
Hey, maybe there was, indeed, a time before that when there was a lower S/N ratio, if only because there were only a handful of research institutions on the net and only CS majors had accounts. Certainly there's a lot more noise these days on just about any group. But mourning the "days you could still keep up with Usenet" strikes me as just a little creepy; it's kind of like being nostalgic for the days when you could still keep up with all the books being published, because there were only about twelve, including the Bible.
Re:Still a long road (Score:1)
They do in places where school expenditures are tied to real estate taxes (because more affluent folks have more expensive homes and therefore generate more tax money, per capita, for local school districts). This has been the case in the municipalities where I have lived.
Once in a while a student can rise above their surroundings and achieve great things without the help of their (often absent) parents, but this is like 1 in 1000
Agreed, for the most part.
Future of da NET !=FAD. BT needs to re-eval.... (Score:1)
Now that would be progress
Oh, the humanity... (Score:1)
First, poor people learned to read and write...
Now they're learning to use the Internet.
So much for pathos.
Shhh!! (Score:1)
"Digerati" my ass (Score:1)
Give it up, Jon. Your pseudo-intellectual crap doesn't fit here. Geeks have finely honed bullshit detectors, and most of what you say doesn't make it past our filters. Go write for the Village Voice or something.
Everything for Everybody... (Score:1)
The Digital Divide (Score:1)
misinformed (Score:2)
Um, don't the Chinese make up one quarter of the world's population, the biggest race in the world? China has CITIES bigger than the entire population of the USA. So in what way are the Chinese a minority?
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Re:$400 rebate??? (Score:1)
That said, there are times when this might make sense. When I moved to the U.S. I took a loss on my house in Canada (which was in a real estate slump at the time), and so had to accept a 95% LTV mortgage. Yup, you said it, PMI.
'Course the difference is that I can apply extra cash each month against the mortgage without penalty (and thus extricate myself from PMI real soon now) -- for me, cash on hand was the problem, and not a revenue stream. You can't pay MSN "extra" to make them go away sooner.
Still, if online chatting and email take the place of long distance phone calls, or other expense, the MSN "deal" might be worth it for some people who would otherwise might not be able to get an adequate computer. It is sad though, that the cost of entry is greatest for those who can least afford it. Perhaps a cooperative that provides financing to such people can reduce this burden.
Re:Eternal september. (Score:2)
It's the same patterns, over and over again. Television: weren't so bad when there were only a handful of stations; now we have 120 channels of shit on the tv to choose from, and almost all of 'em will make your eyes bleed. Radio: weren't so bad when there were only a few stations in town; now we have dozens of crap-pop teeny spooge to numb us. Slashdot: great place a few years ago, when the few hundred/few thousand users were savvy; now it's overrun by dolts and assholes.
And on and on. The more popular anything in American culture gets, the worse it gets. There's an undying, unrelenting drive toward bottom-dollar profiting, which all-too-often equates to pandering to the lowest common denominators.
It's a society driven toward making trailer-park trash feel like they're an acceptable, useful, necessary part of society.
The fool thing is, the intelligensia and privileged buy into this bullshit. They watch fucking "Survivor" and pretend that it's an acceptable way to spend an hour of one's life.
The Internet will never again be as interesting, stimulating, challenging and refreshing as it was back at the tail end of the '80s and beginning of the '90s. The unwashed, ill-bred and ignorant masses have come online, and they're ruining it as surely as they ruin everything else they touch.
[And the only thing I'm curious about, is whether anyone will self-identify with the low-class dregs of society that I've been dissin', and will take offense! Flame on, you slovenly patrons of KMart, you viewers of daytime soap operas, you wretched fans of Brittany Spears!]
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Active and Passive user (Score:2)
I think with enough patience (especially among tech support and sysadmins), people from a wide cut of the socioeconomic spectrum will begin to use the computer and the Net on a daily basis. But there is a difference between being an active and a passive user. Let's consider the two technologies most compared to the Net/Computer in this discussion: TV and automobiles.
TV is inherently a passive technology: users are fed and there is only limited feedback from user to TV programmers. So it is not really a fair comparison to the Internet revolution, a revolution where users not only can get a lot of content but also actively participate in the shaping of the available content. I think Slashdot is a great example of this two way feedback. So talking about how the digital divide will disappear like it did for TVs is a misleading comparison. The divide will still be there if most of the 'masses' only learn to accept content from the Internet (such as check stock prices, news reports, sports scores) as opposed to build/manipulate some of the contents themselves.
As for the comparison with automobiles, this one probably has more merit as there is more of an active participation on the part of automobile consumers. But I think the divide that was crossed earlier is now widening: most people cannot fix nor truly understand how their cars work. This is especially true with modern cars that require sophisticated, specialized electronics to diagnose even the simplest of engine problems. And I think the automobile metaphor provides an important lesson: a divide that appeared to have been crossed can in the future re-widen. As more people become savvy with the current state of PC and Internet technologies ... we have to keep in mind that technology does change (especially in the PC/Internet world) and that the divide can re-appear and widen if we don't make sure people keep up.
So in summary, we need people to embrace the digital revolution as opposed to just accept it in order to close truly the divide.
The divide is as big as it always was. (Score:2)
I think you are far too US-centric in your perspective on things. You attack the so-called "digital divide" as if it were something meaningful at all.
What are you thinking? Do you honestly think getting rid of the "digital divide" will suddenly eliminate the world's problems? Will it stop your US corporations from exploiting third world resources and people?
It's time for you to broaden your perspective on issues, and start writing about the REAL divide in the world - the divide between the US and other first world nations, and the impoverished third world. THAT is the REAL divide!
And no, the "third world divide" is not showing any sign of closing.
Help the world for a change... rather than your writing career.
Farewell, Digerati, you will be missed. (Score:2)
though i'd say it's a lot longer than 3 years ago, the state of the Internet when i joined (mostly academic, with very little independant use except usually ex-academics on dialups), Usenet was informative and useful, searches (on gopher before the web) were concise and accurate, people followed posting standards for all manner of content, and users were helpful, well-mannered and well-informed. it was a pleasure to be there. no having to wade through reams of "DOOD HOW DO I GET BRITNEY SPEARS PR0N????/".
seems to me the increase in numbers has not been matched with an increase, or even consistency, in netiquette/resourcefulness. seems perhaps the old adage of "there is a finite amount of intelligence in the world" may be true substituting "usefulness" and "the internet"...
there are still areas of good stuff on the net, but they're increasingly hard to find. best of luck.
david
Call me just the teensiest bit cynical, but ... (Score:4)
Saying that the digital divide is disappearing is just another way to sell more banner ads.
-schussat
The days of the Digerati are gone... (Score:1)
Seriously, the days when the net was dominated by computer professionals are gone, but they're still there, if you know where to look and demonstrate knowledge and civility, which are also in short supply on the net these days.
Consider pop music: in the 50s and 60s Elvis was outrageous and Beatles records where burned. Now they're national treasures, Elvis is on stamps, and fake rebellion is marketed by megacorporations (will the Real Slim Shady please fuck off), but you can still hear alternatives, be it rave, metal, folk, indie if thats your bag, you just have to be more selective.
So it is now on the net, and people bemoaning the eternal September only need to look a little harder.
This is truly the greatest yet. (Score:1)
I would love to hear this piece in full digital dolby surround sound with THX. Why, you might ask. I'll tell you. The special effects in Jon's latest are great, but could be oh so much better.
JonKatz, I am your whore, your bitch, your personal sex-toy. Please, I beg of you, for the love of the goddess, please fuck me! Cyborg monkey has snubbed me time and time again.
Please, Mr. Katz, do me baby, one more time.
You like to talk of sex and fucking
Re:There will always be a digital divide. (Score:4)
I have to disagree with your point . . . knowing how to rebuild your camshaft has no bearing on how much, or how well, you drive your car. As with any field, there are the professionals, and the consumers. Most people are consumers (in any field). This is not what the so-called "digital divide" issue deals with.
The digitial divide is the fact that (until recently) very few people were online; specifically those with money and technical backgrounds. Very few of the general public had the ability to become Internet consumers. The professionals will always be the professionals.
Don't worry, Granny isn't threatening your l337 h4x0r status . . . the point of the article is just that she's online.
no longer a printing press (Score:2)
I guess one point that is missing is the fact that the intended uses of these new users is different than what people used to think about in the old days. One of the big points that used to be made all the way back in '94/95 was the low cost of informaion distribution that the web would allow, being a revolution for people of all SES levels as we handed the equilavent of printing presses out to every person who could reach the network. What JK mentions are pretty much the same-old same-old: new markets for business, and new opportunities for the entertainment industry. Sure we are bringing the poor online, but they are being brought in now that we have figured out how to make them customers/an audience -- consumers of information instead of producers. At least the the Wal-Mart comparison is right.
I have spent seven years working in community networking and still see, every day, vast differences in the way the technology is used by schools, non-profits, churches, and the poor. So while the news about access may be good, there are significant qualitative differences between the way that the tecnology is applied by people with different abilities (white educated techies compared to the wal-mart types) to raise their quality of life.
Re:We are the Digerati... (Score:4)
Most /. readers are trolls, newbies, wannabes, larval stage or just plain linux fashion victims. The [alt.sysadmin.recovery] digerati [advogato.org] are [c2.com] elsewhere [microsoft.com], believe me...
Yay, sort of (Score:1)
Does this mean... (Score:2)
Can we also abolish Esther Dyson while we're at it?
-grendel drago
Re:Well maybe, but.. (Score:1)
In case someone out there is confused by this quote, the "in-credible" U.S. President Bush called the boy who shot-up his high school (in Santee, CA, outside San Diego) a coward.
Here's the quote:
Bush called the shooting "a disgraceful act of cowardice," adding, "When America teaches our children right from wrong and teaches values that respect life in our country, we'll be better off."
Summary of Katz article (Score:3)
Now it turns out they not only are buying bigscreen TV's, but PCs too, so they can enjoy e-porn.
Another killer article, Katz.
***
Go ahead and mod me down. If you don't like my opinion or sarcasm that makes me a troll or flamebait, right?
Re:There will always be a digital divide. (Score:1)
Well and good, but the second point of the article was that the Digerati are on their way out, and on that point, the grandparent of this post is spot on: not only will there always be Digerati in the form of professionals, that gap is safe by the unwillingness and inability of everyone to become digital professionals. Mostly, this is due to the necessity of having a day job.
I think the real question is whether digital professionals are going to fall in with legal and medical professionals or automotive professionals. Clientelle would imply the former, but rough education leads me to lean towards the latter.
Ushers will eat latecomers.
Re:Eternal september. (Score:2)
"You obviously don't understand. Next time, take your head out of your ass before posting."
and...
"FUKN GOAT MUNCHING FAGOTS! I'LL KIK YOR A$$ PUNKK!!!!"
I can see how the former might seem almost literary... It's the difference between Kernel Traffic arguments that get out of hand and trolls here.
-grendel drago
Re:More is less (Score:1)
Definitely Not. (Score:2)
Canonizing unstable children as potential avatars of electronic activism is a blatant Katzism.
-grendel drago
Whine whine whine (Score:2)
The Internet still has at least as much hardcore computing information as ever (in fact much, much more). If you don't like the fact that the Web is now more of an entertainment source than a forum for computer geeks, don't visit entertainment sites. The beauty of the Web is the fact that you are in control . . . if you only ever visit the übergeekiest sites out there, as far as you're concerned the Internet can be just as geeky as ever.
Being on the Internet at all used to make you "digerati". Now that everyone's on, you just have to find something else to feed your elitist complex. Learn to program Smalltalk. Get into nanorobotics. Learn to troubleshoot assembler for some obscure platform. There are plenty of areas to get into with a small, geeky, "elite" audience.
The Internet lets you choose - use that choice (Score:4)
If I want to share information about overclocking, Linux, configuring Apache, or any one of a thousand related topics, the sheer volume of the 2001 Internet makes my search for information that much easier. With the rise in mass Internet culture comes a concurrent rise in the ranks of Geeks.
I can go to Salon and discuss any number of non-Geek related issues, and in many cases the caliber of discussion beats the pants off any Usenet discussions I was privy to in 1994.
Think of it this way - the rise of the CD made audiophiles everywhere panic. Now vinyl is back, there are small, high-quality record manufacturers selling vinyl to afficionados.
Once Budweiser reigned supreme in the aisles of American liquor stores. Hell, maybe it still does - but microbrews are everywhere, and some of them are damned good.
Sure, 99% of American television is total crap, but there are some bright spots (History channel, Discovery, A & E, etc.) that would never have come into existence without the expansion of all the other crap TV.
The Internet is a market, in many ways like any other. Supply will meet demand, as long as the Net remains decentralized, new ideas will flourish. The masses can have their crap, but discerning users can still have quality.
Re:TV, the next generation (Score:2)
-grendel drago
Re:Eternal september. (Score:1)
Ok, maybe this is true, but on the other hand, I can find out about snow back east without paying any long-distance phone charges and I can do literature research (IEEE and ACM digital libraries) for free and without wasting paper.
Furthermore, my grandmother, who can't really get around anymore, can play bridge from the comfort of her bed.
So I ask you - does what you miss from the 80s and early 90s even compare?
remember the 1994 cultural shift (Score:4)
Those of us using usenet which was mainly
academic was invaded by AOL and webtv newbies.
The discussions definately downscaled then.
I don't think going from 30% to 90% usage is
going to be as traumatic.
I have to disagree... (Score:2)
Look at
Sites like
Instead of wanting it back the way it was by reducing the number of people, you should be working to get the sheeple out of their self-made intellectual lazyness. Maybe we'll actually be able to change things then.
P.S. My english's not very good, especially when I haven't had my first coffee. I just had to reply.
Re:Still a long road (Score:2)
Ouch. I take issue here. Doesn't it make sense that affluent parents not scrambling to work two jobs each to pay the bills would be able to invest more time in their children? I take issue with your implication that rich white folks make better parents. My parents were/are working-class white folks, just like two thirds of the people where I grew up. So why are only forty of us from an original class of two hundred doing the same? Parents make a difference -- no matter how little they make, parents can always invest their concern in a child's schoolwork. The wealthy just have the option of hiring someone else to do so...
The most important factor in the outcome is the parent. The next factor is the teacher. Funding is lower on the list (you don't need a new computer to teach physics or chemistry)
Good Lord, man! Have you been to college recently? You *do* need textbooks, and they're damned freakin' expensive. Unfortunately, high schools can't bleed the students dry for them, so they're frequently stuck with outdated, obsolete textbooks.
-grendel drago
Re:The Average age is 39 and rising (Score:3)
In other words, old people who did not learn about the net are starting to die off, while young people who did learn about it are starting to get old.
The average age is continuing to rise because we are all continuing to get older. (Astonishing, ain't it?)
Yet another example of why statistics are often worthless.
City gov'ts need to do their part (Score:2)
All that needs to be done is set up the machines with monitors, printers, and modems, and do fresh OS installations, but there is no money to pay for the work. The mayor is now asking for donations.
Maybe some slashdotters in the Baltimore area could spend a few Sunday afternoons and help?
Re:I'm not against this but.... (Score:2)
You don't suppose this could have anything to do with the stigma placed on people lacking basic skills, do you?
I mean, really! What are your options if you've just taken the 'computer' thing out of the box and connected the similarly colored cables? Of *course* extremely-newbies seem like idiots to us, we've been using these things since we were four.
But it's not (always) actual stupidity, but real lack of knowledge that makes people computer-illiterate. And it certainly doesn't help that the only response they can get is guffaws and "You idiot!". Seems like the "digerati"'s way of perpetuating its monopoly on knowledge.
-grendel drago
Pot Calling Kettle 'misinformed'... (Score:2)
Um, no. The largest city in the *world* is Mexico City, around 25 million. The US has a population at least ten times that. Yes, there are a lot of Chinese. No, there aren't *that* many. Check your facts.
-grendel drago
Self-identify? I'll bite... (Score:2)
On the other hand, I have a couple of CS graduate degrees, and became a Usenet reader in September, 1989, so perhaps I have left my low-class roots behind?
Anyway, quit your damned elitist whining. Look around the net a bit to find a group that shares your sensibilities. If you can't find one, whip one up! Then you can moderate out the rubes and keep the conversation up to your high standards. There is plenty of bandwidth for us all.
By the way, I've noticed that special interests can still result in the caliber of exchange you want. If you are into something like antique radios or Middle English literature, I'll bet you can find newsgroups/mailing lists/web sites galore that have high signal-to-noise ratio.
Re:Eternal september. (Score:2)
Oh, yes, they will. Those days you could still keep up with Usenet, the days 99% of posts was relevant to the group and the previous message, those days when "Flame" stood for an intelligent, almost literary rebuttal, instead of moronic incendiary gutter-drivel, the days of the Crystal Cave, the days the 'net _was_ free and open, and abuse and crass commercialism non-existent. They will be missed, Jon, until they pry the keyboard from my cold, dead fingers and nail the coffin shut. And I bet many will agree, if maybe not here.
I call bullshit. Maybe you really feel this way, but stop whining - if you really are hanging around bemoaning the good ol' days, then it means you have gotten slow.
September refers to the start of the fall semester, when a whole bunch of Freshmen in college got access to the Usenet, and all the veterans (many of them sophmores) had to start educating the newbies in ettiquitte and "the way things are done around here". It made things more civil, more of a tight-nit community, etc., because the numbers were small enough that the old users always outnumbered the new users.
The September that Never Ended [fwi.uva.nl] refers to when AOL openned Usenet access for it's members, and the newbie outnumbered the old-timers by huge margins. Usenet got overwhelmed by uncouth barbarians who didn't learn the rules, didn't want to learn the rules, and were numerous enough never to be taught properly.
What did the old-timers do? Some tried to cope, updating the FAQ, and making sure that new folks knew that there were rules to be followed if they wanted to be accepted and respected. Others bitched and moaned, and were called elitist for their whining. Others, who couldn't stand the newbies, formed other, smaller newsgroups or mailing lists, and abandoned those when they got too popular.
Those that did not like associating with every Tom, Dick, or Harry paying $14.95 for AOL access has two choices: stay and complain, or create something new. Those creative types gave us many new forums: ICQ, excelent mailing lists, moderated newsgroups, Slashdot, Kuro5hin, etc. When their pet group gets too popular, they will move on to something new, and take their friends with them.
These forums (Usenet, Slashdot, etc) get good because creative folks invest themselves into making them good. Even the common user recognizes quality, and wants a part of it (or, more annoyingly, to destroy it). Good forums and good ideas will eventually get popular. Deal with it, or move on and make something better.
Besides, you will always have something to divide the lamers from the elites. AOL vs. "pure" ISP. MSIE vs. fringe browser. FrontPage vs. HTML by hand. Web user vs. web builder. RPM user vs. Make user. GUI vs. CLI. HLL vs. Assembly. Diable vs. Angband. Internet Multiplayer vs. LAN party. Whatever you use to make yourself more superior than the next guy, go ahead, latch yourself onto it.
For my part, I welcome an Internet that is less white, middle-class, college-educated Americans. One that doesn't get deomonized by politicians, or blamed for school shootings, but one that is part of our lives, with a supported backbone, and enough space for everyone to play.
We already have... (Score:2)
What's the future, of mankind?
How should you know?
You got left behind...
Re:Everything for Everybody... (Score:3)
Sturgeon's Law, anyone?
The presence of bad art doesn't preclude the presence of good art. If anything, there's more good stuff out there. Of course, you have to be a *critic* (oh, the pain) and judge for yourself what's worthwhile...
-grendel drago
Re:Don't even get me started! (Score:2)
A little background: The culture at WIRED these days seems like that of a "Salon" magazine with more tech-oriented stories, but back in the days before they fired Katz, they really seemed to believe they were part of some kind of social revolution. They were trying very to become to 90's geeks what The Whole Earth Catalog was to hippies a couple decades earlier.
Actual geeks never really took WIRED very seriously, so they evolved into more of a tech-business journal. Mr. Katz, one of the would-be revolutionaries, did not fit in with a magazine that reported actual news, so he was cut loose and landed on Slashdot.
His perspective is not that of an actual geek, but as a geek observer who is trying to parse meaning out of what he thinks he sees. The tone of this article seems to indicate that he might be coming to the realization that there isn't one; that that the only thing that really sets geeks apart from everybody else is math aptitude, and all other stereotypes fail to apply as well an editorialist looking for a "cultural shift" might have been hoping for.
Re:We are the Digerati... (Score:2)
Please don't do that. Every time someone says they don't believe in Microsoft, someone's Windows computer crashes.
--
Re:TV, the next generation (Score:2)
I'll miss the idealist Internet as well, but remember, that is mostly a white, middle-class, college educated dream, and even mostly European or even American. That kind of idealism only really exists in isolation, or in a few battle-hardened individuals who can no longer think another way.
My wife works in a literacy service, and she has be instrumental in integrating computer education into adult literacy services. Some of the students have really been amazed by the web, and have become self-taught web surfers. It's interactive nature, which also provides information on almost any subject, is great for motivating students to keep learning to read. They may start out on Britney Spears and Temptation Island, but they don't have to stop there.
It is hard for her, however, when one of these students wants to buy a computer for themselves. They feel limited by the computer lab, which often requires a bus trip downtown, during work hours. They want to surf at night, which would mean daily reading practive. However, even low-cost computers are prohibitively expensive at minimum wage.
The sense of community that many of us get on the web is fuelled by a comfortable middle-class lifestyle, where it is reasonable to pay $X per month for a computer, or even buy it all at once. We don't even have to decide between a computer, cable, a fast Internet connection, constant air conditioning and heating, eating out, having a car, and a game console.
This new phase in Internet growth, into mass media, will create a new class of newbies. We are already seeing them, the web page builders who don't bother with spell check, those that surf to web pages provided by television, who don't know about filters, DMCA, MPAA, RIAA, etc. But they bring with them lots of money, some to be invested in infrastructure, and gets this tech thing the respect of politicians and the media. Prices will continue to go down, letting more people get online, further narrowing any digital divide.
The "old school" messages will be competing with the "Valuetainment" messages, and the bad guys will win. Not because they are right, or the best, but because we will continue to act elite, evangelize the "one true way" to ourselves while never explaining it to outsiders, and general turn anyone off who may thing of joining us.
If we really wanted to win the culture war, we would be making the ultimate "Guide to the Web" website, explaining everything from how to turn on your computer to HTML to building a kernel and beyond. Instead, they'll go to www.disney.com for their information.
Sorry, trailed off in a rant there...
Re:Eternal september. (Score:2)
Funny, I always thought it started with PSUVM.
Re:More Warez! (Score:2)
"Can't afford Office? Can't afford a big new computer to run Office? For only $9.95 / month, you can run the newest and best Office from your old computer, using .NET."
Oh, and that report you titled "Breast Cancer incidence in Teenage Girls" has been reported to the FBI per the COPA laws regarding child pornography.
John
Re:Something I never got (was Re:Eternal september (Score:2)
It's mostly (I think) a lack of any true sense of responsibility for actions. This comes with age, as you begin to empathize with others, and respect the feelings of others. But it does come with age, and you can't apply adult morality to children and adolescents.
I feel I was a fairly good kid (my parents seem to agree, looking at my younger brothers), but I remember instances as a child and adolescent when I was cruel, when I destroyed other's property, and when I thought things like the anarchist's cookbook were cool. Looking back, it was as if I was a different person, and I'm glad I grew out of it, and I still think I was a good kid. If I did the same things today, though, I'd have to admit I was a bad adult.
Parents seem to understand this - that you can't reason with young children, and often a little spank is all that will stop their animalistic impulses. Eventually, the kids internalize what is right and wrong, and non-corporal punishment (grounding, extra chores, whatever) becomes a reasonable deterrent. Eventually, when they have matured some more, you can give them rational reasons for what is right and wrong, and indeed they demand them (heaven help the parents that are still saying "Because I told you!"). Sometime after they ask for rational reasons behind rules, they recognize that not all rules are rational, and either fight them (which is good, if the rule is bad), or they respect them, because of the rewards of following the rules (stay out of jail, earn the respect of those that love them and/or have control over them).
So, we can't do much for the annoying elements of SlashDot - they have to follow the rules themselves. We can hope that someday they try to run for office, or get promoted, and their goatse.cx links come back to haunt them (formative years my ass!!!).
I secretly hope that the Slashdot moderators are recording data about anonymous posters, etc, and will one day create SlashJustice, where you can find the names and addresses of the most annoying posters, ranked by how close they are to you. You could then exercise SlashJustice on their asses. Penny Arcade had a comic on the issue, but it's amoung those lost in the server move.
The USSR and the USA dealt with each other in a much more cordial manner at the height of the cold war, when each was prepared to completely annihilate the entire planet!
You also have to remember, for every US/USSR summit with its dignified and cordial atmosphere, there was a Sylvester Stallone movie or a Vietnam. We weren't always very nice to each other.
Hey, Moderators: Is it really off-topic if it was an honest responce to a previous post?
Re:We are the Digerati... (Score:2)
People who believe the masses are all idiots are judging with very narrow criteria, and don't seem to appreciate that people in fact spend a good deal of their lives living their lives. Unlike us, some of them even have lives. They deserve some credit for it.
Fuck them, my comp ain't a TV (Score:2)
So why the hell do I want my PC to become a new form of TV? That's bullshit. I try to teach every net newbie I meet what the internet SHOULD be, what it was, at least.
It's a winnowing-out process, you see. First you add a huge amount of new users who don't know what the internet was originally like. To give an example, modern SAT tests could convincingly include "internet access" and "satellite TV" in an analogy. Then, you criminalize and dehumanize the few (relatively) remaining people online who refuse to be a cog in the marketing machine. Once you can criminalize them, you can get rid of them.
I foresee a time when anyone who is NOT online via AOL etc will be considered dangerous and a cybercriminal. IMO, if that's what's going to happen anyway: create a new net, hopefully based on Freenet's topology or something very like it, for the "digerati" to move to. (Gawd, I hate that term, makes me think of starbucks-frequenting latte-sipping Wired-reading twerps, or in Denis Leary's words, "haiku-writing motherfuckers")
This new net will have the disadvantage that it will also be looked on with suspicion and denounced by politicians as the abode of "hackers", "terrorists", and "child pornography"... But at least we evil monsters will be safely hidden away where the AOLers wouldn't be in any danger of catching our cooties. I think that may actually be a solution.
Then the computer plebes can stay on the old internet and use it for their mp3's and their Jerry Springer streaming video and their online shopping and their cotton-candy-censored-"for the children!!" content. Who cares? Let them have what they want. If a cable modem is just another form of satellite TV box in their opinion, who am I to stop them from enjoying it?
As for me, I would move to the "new" internet where one might be able to have an intelligent conversation and do some coding and/or get some pr0n and/or play violent games. And maybe NOT get 3 million unwanted ads for penis enlargement in my email (which is actually kind of an insult when you think of it
-Kasreyn
No maybe; harassers are first and worst cowards. (Score:2)
Until the schools get tough with bullies and sanction them (up to and including expulsion) for "creating a hostile educational environment", we can expect the victims to reach the ends of their ropes and do something about it. As it is we are only seeing the tip of an iceberg with the shooters, because most of the victims respond by transferring schools, dropping out or committing suicide. The losses in destroyed educations and lost lives from bullying and harassment are many times as large as the losses from school shooters, and it's high time that something was done to address it.
--
spam spam spam spam spam spam
No one expects the Spammish Repetition!
Think of it this way (Score:2)
Re:There will always be a digital divide. (Score:2)
That's not even a little bit true. People who just drive into their local express Lube shop every 3000 miles, and let the mechanics replace parts when the book says they should, are going to get 150,000 to 200,000 out of just about any car.
The maintenace of modern, high-performance, high-efficiency engines is such that it is outside the realm of the typical "car guy" anyway. You might be able to completely disassemble and reassemble the engine of a 1975 F100 Ford truck, but just replacing the spark plugs in my 2001 truck is a $3000 job, which must be done in a professional shop with specialty tools. (Fortunately, the plugs are made to last 120,000 miles before they need to be changed.) On the bright side, I get much better power, feul economy, cab room, and towing capacity that that old Ford could ever have given me, and it cost me less in adjusted dollars than that Ford did when it was new.
With computers, on the other hand, we haven't really been through such a revolution. GUI's made things a little simpler, sure, and CPU speeds have moved more or less according to Moore's Law, but I would say that the computing industry is not yet even in the '75 Ford stage of development... I would say we've only begun to move past the first-generation Oldsmobiles. ("A fine downhill car," was the joke at the time, because the Olds was notorious for struggling on even modest inclines, and the engine sounded best when a slope was moving you forward anyway. Does that remind anybody else of the last 10 years of Windows?)
Re:Eternal september. (Score:2)