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Technology

Scaling Walls With Suction Cups 124

tedtarg writes "What will those clever Germans think of next? The BBC has a story on a cool device called a gekkomat. Basically a set of suction cups that let u crawl up the side of buildings... Definitely a good tool for Batman to emulate Spiderman." Scaling walls is a good super power. Now lets get on scaling buildings in a single bound.
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Scaling Walls With Suction Cups

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  • by Anonymous Coward
    Just what we really needed, another patent that sucks!!
  • by Anonymous Coward
    With a valve at each actuator, you could probably maintain suction for a good while as long as you didn't move. The suggestion would probably be something like: Please use your free appendage and cell phone (you didn't forget that did you?!) to call for help.

    Of course, you would hope they'd have a manual backup pump so you could fight the leaks until help arrived.

  • Hmm... anyone who works anywhere with a reasonable size data center has access to floor pullers. You could just grab a couple of those and have at!

    And when it's late and you start getting punchy, you really do think of things like this... :)
    --


  • a large vacume pump with large surface area plungers. I wouldnt' call it profound. my only problem is what happens when you half way up and you snag a line. thats like being 500 feet down and blowing a hose. and whats the practical use. window washing, utility work. how does it out way a ladder or a scafolding. and how high can you climb before yoru too tired. also what range of motion does it allow to do work. or is it strong enough to allow you to bring up equipment ??

  • I used to live in stormy waters, just dying of fright,
    but now I've found a special hobby
    and I'm doin' all right


    Line from the song Suction Cup 6.1 [mp3.com] by Sofina [mp3s.com] on mp3.com. Great tune.

    (Nope, I'm not in the band, but they're local to my area and they're pretty darn good).

    --
  • Dude, where the hell have you been!

    Power skip [entertainfla.com]

    --
    Poliglut [poliglut.com]

  • >>>Now lets get on scaling buildings in a single bound.

    Scaling buildings in a single bound is easy, there's lots of technological solutions that can launch a 75kg mass over a large building. Surviving the impact on the other side, THAT is the hard part!

    It's a bird, it's a plane, it's...
    a smeared blob of flesh, bone and muscle.

  • by bobdehnhardt ( 18286 ) on Thursday May 17, 2001 @08:00AM (#216347)
    Sorta brings a whole new level of meaning to the term Blue Screen Of Death, doesn't it?
  • I'd be seriously worried about any highrise window that couldn't support a mere 230 pounds. Consider that such windows (especially the near-floor to ceiling type) have to be proof against people accidentally falling against them, and even more, proof against pressure differentials (in either direction) caused by high winds. For, say, a 5ft by 5ft window, a mere 1/10th PSI pressure differential gives you 360 pounds of force on the window -- and pressures can be quite a bit higher than this with a good wind.

    Now, true enough, windows have been known to pop off of highrises in strong winds (ouch!) but rarely, and that in newer buildings where installation was sloppy.

    But this whole suction cup thing has been done in countless movies and old Mission: Impossible episodes using the two-suction-cups-and-a-handle device used for pulling floor tiles in raised-floor computer rooms.
  • one word: parachute.

    -Chris
    ...More Powerful than Otto Preminger...
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • A cool gadget indeed! However, it works differently to a gecko...

    A gecko does not use suction to cling to walls. Although their toes look like little suction caps, they actually cling to walls via billions of tiny hairs on the ends of their toes, not by air pressure.


    --Gfunk
  • I've liberally coated the outside of my twelfth-floor office window with powdered corn-starch.

    squitch... squitch .. squitch ... squitch ... squitch ... sq --- pop!
    A
    H
    h
    h
    h
    h
    h
    h
    h
    h
    h
    h
    h
    h
    !

    Suction cups require a pretty clean surface to work. I suppose a clever climber could carry a big vat of vaseline, and smear it over the surface to get airtight contact.
    bukra fil mish mish
    -
    Monitor the Web, or Track your site!
  • Their video was very suspicius. It looks to be more of a demo of what this might look like than an actual video of some guy climbing a building.

    which means: vaporware

    too bad.


    Point and Grunt

  • warnings affect one pad only. the system doesn't let you have more than one [out of 4] pads loose. therefore, at any given point, 3 are safely attached [and unlikely to lose pressure]. you would not even get up there if they were not.

    as for the empire state building - you better get up there in 25 minutes. that's as long as the batteries will last ;-)

    i like the "carrying capacity of 1 metric ton"...
  • I was kind of surprised to see the climbers using this machine didn't have on a saftey line - so they must trust it pretty well.

    If you realize you are about to run out of air pressure then you get out your mountain climbing equipement and do it the old fashion way. I.e. hammer a bolt into the surface you are climbing and hook a line into your harness. If you are climbing a building, it *might* be hard to hammer into steel - but there is almost always some thing to grab onto in bulding structures - window ledges, etc.
  • The Quicktime video (Sorenson?) showing the Gekkomat in action with someone scaling a wall is here [gekkomat.de].

    It's a 4.2 MB file, which I haven't had any luck playing yet.

    Alex T-B
    St Andrews
  • Since an electronic door lock could be considered a technlogical measure to control access to copyrighten material, it may be considered illegal under the DMCA.

    Why only an electronic lock? Did mechanics suddenly stop being technology or something?
  • Yeah, really! No mechanical technology like this is perfect, any more than the outsides of buildings are uniform or nececcarily able to stand the kind of shear forces this must generate.

    It looks cool, but it strikes me as dangerous as hell - there's no way I'd personally try it.
  • Imagine if the AYBABTU trolls get ahold of this. All Your Base will no longer be limited to the online world--we'll see it on the side of buildings, hanging from bridges, everywhere.

    Then there's the peeping tom factor. One could scale Natalie Portman's apartment buildings, peeking through cracks in curtains...

    It's a great day for the trolls, and a sad day for the Rest of Us.
  • Saw "Geekomat" instead of "Gekkomat"?
    It's "geekomatic" !

    Gods. I need more coffee, methinks.
  • blue scream of death, perhaps?
  • My daughter was doing that in Spy Fox: Dry Cereal months ago. Oh, wait, that's just a game.
    --
  • David Niven? feh, I'd rather dress up in a black latex suit and mask and scale walls like Diabolik [diabolik.it]!
  • by AnalogBoy ( 51094 ) on Thursday May 17, 2001 @08:01AM (#216364) Journal
    Hang from the celing of your boss's office. Spy on meetings.

    Hang from celing of womens bathroom. Find out why they always take so long.

    Hide from/ambush DBA's who want to work you to death 5 minutes before you leave.

    Get a extremely large set of these, attach entire desk to celing. Work inverted all day long. pass out.

    attach to airplane before takeoff. Free trip, anywhere. Hint: dress warmly, carry a parachute, just in case..

    Climb buildings, save kitties, become hero of many young children.

    Climb kitties, save buildings, $%*@* off PETA.

    paint body like lizard. spend entire day on wall, sticking tonge out at people.

  • It could tell you to press your lips against the building and suck like hell!
  • Have you seen the guys who run this site ?

    Have you been to a linux expo / tradeshow and met / walked by and laughed at these guys ?

    They're geeks. They're DORKS. They don't have good haircuts, they don't shave, some might smell a little. Who doesn't ?

    But -

    That isn't to say they're not good people.

    They are adults, but they aren't "grown ups" by a longshot.
  • In today's news, a German corporate spy plunged 108 stories to his death while attempting to scale New York's World Trade Center in efforts to steal business plans.

    Spectators were stunned to see the German who has been identified as Wolfgang Dirk Schmidt yelling "Arschlock!!" while falling to his death.

    Investigators used shovels to scoop up his remains for analysis at Quantico VA, in efforts to present a case against the German goverment for inventing what they dub as "suction cups of mass destruction."

    Stay tuned
  • I remember watching scooby doo at least 8 years ago (and it was probably 20 years old) where Hilda (the circus performer) was acquitted of being the monster, because the monster used suction cups to climb the walls.

    Since Hilda used to be a circus performer, she obviously didn't need the suction cups.

    Next they'll develop telepathic powers with which to communicate with Creatures of the Sea, and claim they're all innovative.


  • Whoa Taco managed to post a story without the word "porn" inside!!

  • >Imagine if the AYBABTU trolls get ahold of this. All Your Base
    >will no longer be limited to the online world--we'll see it on the
    >side of buildings, hanging from bridges, everywhere.

    Just wait until Space Invader [space-invaders.com] starts distributing them to his minions...

  • Except i dont think the fall is far enough for a parachute to work, (but i dont know) and youre likely to get killed in traffic when you land.

    Malcolm solves his problems with a chainsaw,
  • When was the last time _you_ wanted to climb a building?

    About 2 seconds after I saw the article ?

    Who needs a real use for this thing ? It's cool as anything, and I want one now ! Hell, I want one for my cat too.

  • The cups used by glassiers to handle parge panes can be used on non-pourous surfaces. They will hold 2000 pounds. And are easy to release.
  • I could have swore that stuntmen who like to climb up the sides of skyscrapers used suction cups to maintain their grip on the side of the building.
  • "Misleading articles"? Sorry, but I don't see that. I read /. for a number of reasons, one of which is that I enjoy the humorous items that get posted from time to time. For serious news only, there are sites available, but /. is great for the mixture that gets presented.
  • I could use this to get out of company meetings!
    ----Quid


  • That's exactly what I thought when I read Taco's comments. I was pretty shocked that he didn't even take the time to proof-read his own editorial couple of sentences to recognize that he used 'scaling' when he should have used 'leaping' to describe the effect of the 'single bound'.



    Seth
  • There isn't much chance a fireman or whatnot is going to carry someone on their back down the face of a building with one of these things. Combined with their fire gear the weight of these items is just a bit on the high side.
    Presumably you could trail a rope up the abseil down. (Why are we talking about this on /. ?!)
  • There's been a device like that for ship hull cleaning for years. It's lowered over the side, and works its way down and across, doing the chip and paint jobs ships require. It can even be used at sea on calm days when the ship is moving slowly. It beats being lowered over the side in a bosun's chair.
  • You`ve never heard of base jumping? Pretty popular, yet highly illegal. Except in some parts of the far east!
  • Or activists could use it to get *into* company meetings!
  • Did you read the article? Obviously not, because it specifically mentions that the primary marketing will be focused as rescue equipment. When there is a fire, an elevator is not an option. And stair wells often fill with smoke, if not people running down the stairs to get out.
  • One aspect of spider-man is now done. But where are the web-throwing pads at wrists, the superior strength and other features? I want them too! ;)

  • by SClitheroe ( 132403 ) on Thursday May 17, 2001 @07:57AM (#216386) Homepage
    I loved this part:
    "If irregularities should occur despite intensive safety measures
    which are built into the machine, error codes are displayed and alternatives
    to solve the situation are offered by the computer."

    I can see it now, halfway up the Empire State Building: Poor suction detected. Please shutdown and perform a check-disk.

    Seriously, when you're halfway up a building and not generating enough suction, what suggestions can the computer offer other than "pray!" ???
  • The ACME company has developed new rocket-powered skates which can propell people at amazing speeds. ACME wanted to warn potential users not to use the device on curved roads near cliffs, due to numerous accidental coyote deaths.
  • Alright, this is a kinda cool idea, and it's great that the system generates enough suction to support a metric ton...

    But given that the exteriors of most modern buildings are primarily glass...it seems to limit the usability of the device.

    After all, what pane of glass can support a metric ton? Hell, I weigh 180 pounds, add 50 more for the gekkopad, and that's 230. 230 pounds suspended from a pane of glass via suction on the side of a skyscraper...

    Doesn't strike me as too good an idea.


    ----------------------------------------
    Yo soy El Fontosaurus Grande!
  • Why the hell was he wearing a hard hat?
  • Since an electronic door lock could be considered a technlogical measure to control access to copyrighten material, it may be considered illegal under the DMCA.

    Yes, I know it's far fetched....but would you not have said the same about a hyperlink being considered a violation?

    It could be a burgular tool.

    Just food for thought.

  • Don't think you'll get much grip on that.
  • Yaaaaawwwn....

    So read Ars and stop complaining. Stick to sites with are concerned with presenting material in a grown up way. Read the Wall Street Journal.

    Come on, you have to admit, /.'s popularity has not grown because of its dedication to "grown up" presentation. I really hope you don't read /. to stay on top of the technical world. /. was created to be an online community/forum for things that interested a stereotyped community, commonly refered to as geeks.

    Ask yourself: Do nerds not have a sense of humor? Or is it just you?
  • . . . but your comment both sucked and blowed simultaneously <groan>


    -----------------
  • Well I guess that this b2p (building to person) interface isn't GUI is it?

    Insert rimshot and rotten tomato throwing here

  • Scaling walls is a good super power. Now lets get on scaling buildings in a single bound.

    Sorry, I don't mean to flame here, but this is something I've been thinking about for a while and this seems like a good time to put it into words.

    Another site I enjoy reading is Ars. They don't post as many articles per day as /. and don't have as many user comments (that could be a good thing), but their articles are usually well-researched, low-hype and well-thought out comments by the poster. Contrast that with CmdrTaco's foolish statement about "Hey--let's jump over buildings now!"

    Yes, this is news for nerds. And it's mostly stuff that matters. But can't it be responsible news for nerds? And how about "stuff that matters--presented in a grown up way." I wish that authors here on /. would have a little more editorial integrity, a little more displayed smarts, and and little less of the hype and misleading articles that we've been seeing lately.

    Thanks,
    Daniel.

    --

  • It would have been much cooler if instead of using a vacuum approach, they'd tried to replicate a real gecko's (almost fractal) micro cillia. The reason gecko's can walk on walls (and ceilings) is that it's feet are covered in microscopic fibres (covered in even more microscopic fibres, branching to every more microscopic fibres). "Gecko Samui" - best surf clothing on ChaWeng Beach, Koh Samui, Thailand.
  • This was the first thing that popped into my brain. Nice work.
  • Am i the only one who wishes he could download /. in .qwk format?

    Pfft. BlueWave owns.
  • Check out the article mentioned in the initial posting - Tommorow's World is the source.
  • So what happens if one of the pads fail when you're 100 meters up? The computer will not let you have more than one pad loose. So if one pad will not connect to the building anymore you're screwed.

  • This reminds me of an episode of LA Law where some loon thought he was a superhero lizard man and climbed up the wall in the court room and fell off because someone put holes in his suction cups. Thought I'd share.
  • Just keep your eyes open for Clouseau. He is obviously some kind of genius to be so unpredictable!
  • I think I saw the suction cups on the original Batman series, not that they actually worked

    Check out the Vinny the Vampire [eplugz.com] comic strip

  • It could tell you to press your lips against the building and suck like hell!

    Funny. Angelina Jolie would rock at that part....

  • They claim to have studied the gekko when designing their device, but if so then they did a poor job of it.

    Gekkos are unique in that they can cling to smooth surfaces even in a vacuum. This is because they don't use suction. Instead they have hairs on the pads of their feet which branch multiple times until they are fine enough for the Van der Waal's forces in the surface's molecules to attract them.

    Although the attraction of any one hair is miniscule, they add up to enough to hold the gekko in place, even when upside-down.

    -deane
    Gooroos Software: plugging you in to Maya

  • Clever?! This is nothing new. Cartoon characters have been climbing walls with suction cups for over 50 years!
  • While on this topic, may I mention a wall-climbing robot, also using suction cups? It's essentially a window cleaner, capable of 120m^2/hr, which carries and recycles its own water. Damn cool.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/low/english/sci/tech/newsid_ 673000/673265.stm [bbc.co.uk]

    Tom.

  • ...but would you not have said the same about a hyperlink being considered a violation?

    Like when the MPAA tried to stop those who were linking [slashdot.org] to DeCSS?

  • Using suction cups to climb a building has been done before [eatthestate.org].
    also, scaling buildings [cnn.com] isn't new either.
  • I wonder what you start thinking when you get stuck up 5 floors high, with nobody to see you and no battery life... for the whole night!!! That would be almost like this guy from Darwin awards who went flying on the chair.

    P.S. My Casio camera sucks batteries even faster than this device.

    [Offtopic]Casio's technical support should receive pine-apples up their asses every hour. They are the most incompetent bunch of freaks I know. 24 hours on the phone - result 0%.


  • That video sucks. It makes me think it is a hoax- For some reason they shoot the climber and keep the wall off the frame -You cant see what he's climbing!, They then show some close ups of the pads moving across what could be the ground. If this is *not* a hoax than the videographer should be ashamed of themselves.


    -
  • Manual suction cups for climbing windows or such have been around for quite some time. I'm wondering what they've done to those pads to allow them to get suction on surfaces like concrete. Best I could pick up for the site is that there is some level of tolerance for porousness in the surface, and if it gets too bad, it won't work. Plus, it seems the suction unit on the climbers back can keep increasing the suction as air filters into the pad. So the remaining question is "What did they do to the pads themselves to make even that possible?" and, perhaps more importantly, how durable is that modification? Does it require a coating that rubs off after a while? Does it wear down quickly?

    Nevermind that I've never seen a cordless vacuum cleaner that both had good suction and decent battery life...

  • Scaling walls is a good super power. Now lets get on scaling buildings in a single bound.

    (Voice dripping with contempt) - Havn't you learned to rocket jump yet. I can scale cities in a single bound.

  • Seems to me you'd leap over a building in a single bound. Not scale it in a single bound. I could be wrong.
  • And they said the design wouldn't scale.

  • Oh, I don't know... I bet it gets pretty graphic when the person detaches from the building forty stories up.

  • Re: Supporting two people at once, plus equipment.
    At the heart of the system are the suction cups, each of which can hold 250 kilograms (550 lbs).

    The suction cups (all four will support ~one ton. Allowing for one failing to get proper suction, and one disengaged during moviement, you've still got ~ 1000lbs of support, plenty for carrying two large people and several hundred pounds of equipment.

    Re: Weight supported by 'Gekkonaut'. The climber is only supporing his weight and the weight of the backpack gear (66 lbs), as the suction cups support themselves. During movement, the climber must also support the weight of one 'sucker'. Hard to operate and carry a person down? Yes. But if it's your only/best option, I could see it working.

    Re: Why doesn't system auto-disengage available sucker? That sounds like a bad idea. Like rock climbing, this probably takes a bit of concentration, and you don't want a suction cup suddenly letting go of the wall when you're not expecting it (e.g. when you're planning your next move up a burning building's wall).

    Ignoring that, my prediction is that this will be the hot 'must-have' toy this christmas. I know I want one!
    -----
    D. Fischer
  • I cant remember which one mind you...I think the second one (someone correct me if im wrong)...So if they try to get the patent on this good luck!
  • Just don't tilt too much backwards when letting go of those hand suction cups.
    swoop, swoop
    Help, I am falli...
    splat

    --------
  • One could scale Natalie Portman's apartment buildings,

    Excellent! Problem is tho, um, something pushing against the building would probably push me off. Better not do it... maybe a robo-pr0tman-cam!!!

    --
    All your .sig are belong to us!

  • Maybe it's something to do with Super-Scalar for Architecture? ;-)

    --
    All your .sig are belong to us!

  • TW, a show here in the UK, had these on the other day. Quite cool, imo. They had a stunt man try them out, and he managed to climb 20 metres wearing them. Apparantly they're really heavy though - so i'd put the spider-man suit back in the closet, taco :)
  • Make a large pile of explosives on the sidewalk.

    Place a large heavily armored box on top of the explosives

    Update your last will and testament.

    Crawl into the box

    Close watertight lid.

    Seal tightly (air holes will not be needed!)

    Set off explosives.

    In this case the sudden stop at the end will not kill you.

    Any attempt to leap buildings in a single bound which does not involve continuous propulsion systems should have the same problem.

    If you solve this problem let me know

  • If I recall correctly, didn't the thief on the first Superman movie had suction cups the he used to climb up glass? His worked ok, and they were smaller! I wonder if the movie industry patented their idea...they could sue the inventor for untold hundreds.

  • ....and BASE jumpers everywhere rejoiced at the idea of climbing such great treasures as, the World Trade Center, The Arch, and other such "natural" landmarks.
  • "The Quicktime video (Sorenson?) ..."

    No, It isn't Sorenson, since it plays on IRIX6.5's Media Player. It's probabally just CinePak MPG3, or something equally as old. At any rate, if it players on IRIX, its an old Quicktime format and as such should play in Realplayer, MediaPlayer, Quicktime, and probabally some OSS codecs.

  • This was on the BBC last night (Tommorow's World - the showcase for lame new technologies). Some poor b*****d climbed 20m up a glass wall. It was such hard work he looked about to collapse at the top. It would've been easier to get to the top by stacking up G4's.
  • Now I can take up the respected trade of David Niven [imdb.com] in all those wonderful movies about the French Rivierra.

    --CTH

    --
  • I'm going to kill myself if someone uses that line one more time.

    Er... Well, y'know. You can't make an omelette without um... destroying a forest. Or something.

  • Hmmm...this could be newest tool that James Bond nemesis types can use to break into top floor offices and steal important documents and stuff.

    I would be kinda scared to use something like this. You are trusting your life with something that, well...SUCKS.

  • (A) The word you're looking for is "inanity."

    (B) Why does Slashdot need to post "responsible news for nerds" or present anything in a "grown-up manner?" If I want dry, humourless news, I read the newspaper. If I want dry, humourless, tech news, I read the tech news at the New York Times. If I want to read about new root exploits, reviews of books that only geeks would read, and other dork-related drivel, I go to /., and well I should. You don't pay for it, so don't bitch about content. Just don't read the stories that are "inane."

    As for accuracy, hype, and misinformation? This is the `net, pal. Read at your own risk.

  • There isn't much chance a fireman or whatnot is going to carry someone on their back down the face of a building with one of these things. Combined with their fire gear the weight of these items is just a bit on the high side.

    Regardless I think they are neat, but I see a bigger use in inspection and construction than rescue.

    Another point, why do they need the lcd displays at all? Why can't a processor simply determine if there are enough currently active supports to allow movement of any specific one? I think with some coaching and computer assist you could actually increase your ascent. Basically the computer would free the pad it wants you to move next, with enough practice you should be able to move quicker.
  • I used fireman as I have a relative who is one. He has two main gripes about firefighting.

    Weight of gear, and the heat because of the gear (as in you can sweat so much you pass out) - he understands the tradeoff... cause he still has his skin.

    the issue is that these pads might be able to support the weight of two humans, but the human scaling the building still has to be able to do the same. That is why all rescues involve rescurers who are not required to use their strength to support both people!. At worse their strength is needed to support the person they are rescuing.

    next is the fact that he has his own weight to contend with, this is not the same as standing on the ground. I don't know about you, but I guarantee it will get tiring moving those pads, and that doesn't count fact it has ZERO backup safety that cable suspended rescue persons have or those on high extension ladders... you will still need a cable suspended from above to make this acceptable to recue people
  • There appears to be a mirror here [art-meets-economy.de] for when this site gets slashdotted.
  • Geckos don't have suction cups. The clinging they do to walls is done by microscopic hairs on their feet. The hairs allow them to go up textured walls in addition to glass (even glass has tiny imperfections).

    I'd love to see the window cleaner using this equipment when it starts to rain and his suction cups slide down the glass from his weight. Interesting technology, I admit, but I'll stick to scaffolding and ladders for all my wall-climbing needs.
  • The power for the vacuum is a tank of compressed air. That's a fairly good energy source, and there is a lightweight and no-moving-parts way of turning it into vacuum (a Venturi). So it's got lots of vacuum, at least for a little while. Then you use a _big_ soft rubber pad and there won't be that much air leaking in from the edges even on a stubbly surface. Exterior building materials aren't going to be so porous that you can actually pull air through the bulk material. But I do think that on a brick, concrete, or stucco surface your time will be pretty limited. And always have safety lines; you could easily pull a window right out of the building, or wind up falling with a layer of paint or stucco still adhering to your pads.
  • by markmoss ( 301064 ) on Thursday May 17, 2001 @08:46AM (#216449)
    I'm kind of surprised it took 40 posts before this came up. Glass is actually pretty strong, as long as the load is spread out so it doesn't initiate a crack. Those pads spread it out plenty, and the force is mostly downwards along the pane (the strong way). But I'd worry about how the window is mounted. You'd pretty obviously pull the average house window right out of the frame. On tall buildings, the glass is thick because the high winds you get at altitude can push against a big window with a force of a few hundred pounds. But the frame has to allow the glass some freedom to move, otherwise building sway can break windows and drop them on passersby. (The John Hancock building in Chicago was once notorious for falling glass; I'm not sure if it was due to too-thin panes or improper mounts.) So I think there's a chance that the guy scaling the glass building in the picture is going to wind up hanging from his safety ropes, still attached to a big thick glass rectangle.
  • It would have been much cooler if instead of using a vacuum approach, they'd tried to replicate a real gecko's (almost fractal) micro cillia. The reason gecko's can walk on walls (and ceilings) is that it's feet are covered in microscopic fibres (covered in even more microscopic fibres, branching to every more microscopic fibres).

    So in other words they should have used technology that doesn't suck.

"And remember: Evil will always prevail, because Good is dumb." -- Spaceballs

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