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Cross Country Solar Race 107

Posted by michael from the exxon-hates-these-people dept.
Dorm writes: "The American Solar Challenge, a 2300-mile cross country solar-powered car race begins on Sunday in Chicago. The 10-day race follows old Route 66 (parallels I-55 from Chicago to St. Louis, I-44 from St. Louis to Oklahoma City, and I-40 from Oklahoma City to Los Angeles) to downtown Claremont, California where teams will cross the finish line on the afternoon of July 25th. If you live along the race route or will be in the area, take a look at the media stop schedule on the ASC site and stop by to see some of the cars during the race. Some teams (including ours, Iowa State) will also be displaying their cars Saturday on the front lawn of the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago, where the race begins on Sunday." The submitter has more info about Iowa State's entry below.

"Many teams (as well as Iowa State) are using advanced technologies like lithium batteries, near space-grade solar cells, and composite materials such as carbon fiber and fiberglass in their cars. Additionally many of us are utilizing Linux with amateur radio and satellite data phones to monitor weather conditions and to help optimize energy usage.

"We run a LinuxPPC server in our solar car chase vehicle that receives GPS coordinates from a Motorola Encore GPS receiver that is driven by a Lineo uCdimm board running uClinux. The uCdimm board reads in the GPS coordinates and broadcasts the coordinates every second via UDP packets on the ethernet network in the van. The LinuxPPC machine uses the coordinates to track our position and to display upcoming route information (stop lights, turns, road contitions) and to aid our racing strategy. Additionally, the LinuxPPC machine connects to the Internet via a Globalstar satellite phone to periodically download weather maps and forecasts for our current location. We also use GPS and amateur radio with APRS in our other support vehicles to monitor all of our vehicles' positions.

"Most of the code that runs everything is developed in house with C/C++, some of it with the Qt library. Myself and another member of our team will be preparing a detailed presentation in September for our local Unix users group about how we've utilized Linux on our team. If there is interest, I'll post the URL here for that once we've got it prepared.

"A list of other teams competing in ASC next week is available online at the American Solar Challenge web site. Most are university teams from North America, but there are some international teams as well."
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Cross Country Solar Race More

Cross Country Solar Race

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  • Re:Questions (Score:4)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 12, 2001 @04:11AM (#90153)
    1. Does the race route have to be carefully planned to avoid long tunnels or deep forests?

    The race is carefully planned. not so much for tunnels and forests, but more for safety. Avoiding interstates, and avoiding small towns (i.e. traffic) are both good ideas, although seem to be in conflict with each other. It takes the race organizers the better part of a year to plan the route.

    2. What sort of percentage of maximum speed is attainable on a cloudy day (compared to a sunny day)?

    The speed is not a function of sun (at least not directly). These are electric vehicles, powered by batteries. The more sun, the slower you drain your batteries.

    3. Do the cars carry batteries as a backup in case of sudden eclipses etc. that block out the light briefly?

    Yes.

    4. If batteries (or some other energy store) are carried, how much running time can be added before the weight of the storage reduces the efficiency to a point where it'd be better to just run off solar power?

    The rules of the race limit the amount of batteries you can carry (ex: Li-ion=30kg). After the first few days of a race, teams typically run only off the sun, using power from the batteries only in the morning/evening/cloudy periods.

    5. Do you ever get kids who think it's funny to throw tins of paint at your cars to cover the photovoltaic cells?

    Kids (and adults) are always a risk. They never realize that the paper thin silicon they are about to touch is worth more than them. For this reason, when they are on display, the cars are never left unguarded. I haven't heard of any intentional vandalism though.

    6. What sort of a drain on the speed is the Linux-GPS setup?

    I beleive this setup was in the support van, not the solar car. The rules allow auxiliary batteries (replacable) to be used to power telemetry equipment, so this is not an issue.

    7. Just how fast do these cars go anyway? Are we talking Smokey and The Bandit or what?

    Honda (WSC 96) attained a maximum speed of 138km/hr. I beleive this is still the record. More typical max speeds are between 100-115 km/hr. Typical average race speeds are around 70-85 km/hr although can reach higher speeds depending on the terrain.

    Rob
    Midnight Sun Solar Car Team [uwaterloo.ca]
  • I realize that your 72 mph figure is a max when all is going well, but it does raise a question - if the car's top speed is above the legal speed limit, at what point does the race become pointless because legality is the limiter rather than technology? (I assume you still have to drive legally in this race (otherwise the cars wouldn't bother with turn signals and headlights. (Uh - okay, scratch the headlights part - I just realized that putting headlights on a solar powered car is rather pointless - but they do have turn signals installed, and from that I assume they have to obey the laws on this trip.)) )
  • Wonder if a solar powered steam car would
    beat these photovoltaics?

  • Jesus. Grow up dude. Try doing something productive with your time.
  • Most of your questions have been answered, but allow me to jump in with:

    4. Depending on the energy density of the battery, it's almost *always* better to take a hit on weight for more capacity. There was a team in the first World Solar Challenge [wcs.org.au] that had 20 kWHrs in their pack, and it paid off for them. Now 'a days one is limited to 5 kWHr's of capacity (unless that's changed since last rayce.)

    5. Kids have thrown candy at our car :(

    Mike
    solar42.umr.edu [umr.edu]

  • Speaking of being on the road at the same time as "real" cars, the first solar car at my university (Univ. of Waterloo) was hit by a pickup truck that was passing a vehicle in the oncoming lane. Well, our solar car happened to be in that lane and we were forced into the ditch. The driver was unhurt but the car couldn't finish the race.

    More info at the Midnight Sun [uwaterloo.ca] history page.

  • Solar cars are very clean running vehicles. Basically you can get a little bit of gas released from the batteries during operation.

    However, building them and their eventual disposal is another story. Lots of nasty chemicals are involved in the production of solar cells. In addition, the batteries especially present disposal issues (lead in lead-acid batteries, other nasties in other battery types.

  • Cross-country skiiers must get mighty tired...you'd think there'd be less people involved in the sport if the only way you could do it was to ski all the way across a nation. Not to mention needing a constant line of snow along the whole route.

  • I hope they follow the actual route through the cities. I live on a road that used to be route 66. It even still has the markers on the sidewalk.
  • I didn't know that. You learn something new everyday, eh? Is it a regional thing then? Like it's only pronounced 'rowt' up north, for example

    umm.. i've been to almost every part of the US, and although i don't usually ask people to pronounce certain things to make fun of their accent, i have never heard anyone pronounce route (as in the roads) as 'rowt'. it's 'root' for roads, 'rowt' for the machines that handle packets.
  • For people wanting to catch a glimpse of these magificent beasties, the only overnight stop will be at the University of Missouri-Rolla [umr.edu] who won first place in Sunrayce '99 and placed 3rd in australia in that same year.
  • The 1999 race started in Washington, D.C. in the pouring rain. The cars didn't see sustained sunshine until South Carolina or Georgia on their way to Orlando, Florida. Many of the cars were transported many miles with penalty minutes added to their final time (shortest time wins). At least one car was transported across the Appalachian moutains to charge for the day, then back to the next stop (all the cars had to reach a common destination every day in that race).


    For this race, the media access stops are mandatory, but several days separate them. If a car is unable to get there in the time allotted, it will have to be transported.


    One amusing aspect to these races is the amount of fossil fuel (gasoline) that is expended. Each solar car is required to have a lead car and a chase car with flashing warning lights (the cars can go fast, but often go slow, especially when the sun isn't out), and most teams have a car or truck towing a trailer with car parts and luggage, as well as a scout car ahead checking out the weather and the traffic. The University of Michigan team (my son and his grandfather are tagging along and cheerleading for this team) has a tractor-trailer rig complete with a machine shop.


    Obviously, I know the most about the U of M team, so I'll continue (I actually went to Stanford, and they have a team as well). The U of M car was pre-running the race in Oklahoma two or three weeks ago, hit a pothole, and totaled the car body. They proceeded to build a new one (carbon fiber, resin, etc.) and passed the qualifying test yesterday (I think) with the new car.


    If you haven't guessed, fund raising is one of the skills developed by members of these teams.

  • Well, I don't have as many races under my belt, as I was only involved in Sunrayce '95 and the World Solar Rallye in '96? before I was kicked off of the team [gwu.edu]. (Improper use of a computer system. See answer to #7)
    1. The routes are supposed to be planned, however, I seriously question the planning of the alternate routes. A typical race day for Sunrayce is about 200 miles. The typical day for us pulling the trailers [I was supposed to be one of the drivers for the car, as I'm just under 5'8", but never got fitted to the car after I built the roll bar, and the staff advisor and other driver were in the 5'4" height range, so it wasn't discovered 'till qualifyings that I didn't fit, so I got trailer duty, as I was one of the people normally talking back to the staff advisor]. One day in particular, I went through 4 states. The main race route only crossed one border. Another day, I found that there was a ferry along the alternate route.
      As for the hills, they try to avoid them up to a point.... unless some major landmark is involved. Things such as a day's end point [normally schools, which they like to build on hills], and the particularly lame ending of the race at the top of a hill outside of Denver, Co, [which after 2 days of clouds, I think only 4-8 cars actually made it to the finish line before the race was called early, as 20+ cars were on the Denver beltway at rush hour]
    2. Uphill/downhill matters more than full sun/no sun. In the case of GW in 1995, we actually got more power on cloudy days than full sun, because of a problem with the manufacture of our solar panels. [don't use conductive epoxy on solar cells. It creates oxidation when in contact with aluminum, so we were running at 1/3 the power of other schools]
    3. The batteries are there for multiple reasons. Basically, they take the excess power from the panels, and store it for later use (going up hill, cloudy conditions, etc.) Also, most of the races have 'charge times' where the car isn't running, but you have the array up to collect light in the early morning/later afternoon.
    4. As was already said, it's dependant upon the types of batteries. The GM SunRayce limits cars to using lead-acid to help even the playing field. Some races have more than one class, so that cars are ranked against similar cars. [Although, our team was in the lowest class, and won overall in Akita, Japan in '96]
  • Goddamn 'return' doing a submit instead of a preview. Here's the whole of what I was attempting to post.

    Well, I don't have as many races under my belt, as I was only involved in Sunrayce '95 and the World Solar Rallye in '96? before I was kicked off of the team [gwu.edu]. (Improper use of a computer system. See answer to #7)
    1. The routes are supposed to be planned, however, I seriously question the planning of the alternate routes. A typical race day for Sunrayce is about 200 miles. The typical day for us pulling the trailers [I was supposed to be one of the drivers for the car, as I'm just under 5'8", but never got fitted to the car after I built the roll bar, and the staff advisor and other driver were in the 5'4" height range, so it wasn't discovered 'till qualifyings that I didn't fit, so I got trailer duty, as I was one of the people normally talking back to the staff advisor]. One day in particular, I went through 4 states. The main race route only crossed one border. Another day, I found that there was a ferry along the alternate route.
      As for the hills, they try to avoid them up to a point.... unless some major landmark is involved. Things such as a day's end point [normally schools, which they like to build on hills], and the particularly lame ending of the race at the top of a hill outside of Denver, Co, [which after 2 days of clouds, I think only 4-8 cars actually made it to the finish line before the race was called early, as 20+ cars were on the Denver beltway at rush hour]
    2. Uphill/downhill matters more than full sun/no sun. In the case of GW in 1995, we actually got more power on cloudy days than full sun, because of a problem with the manufacture of our solar panels. [don't use conductive epoxy on solar cells. It creates oxidation when in contact with aluminum, so we were running at 1/3 the power of other schools]
    3. The batteries are there for multiple reasons. Basically, they take the excess power from the panels, and store it for later use (going up hill, cloudy conditions, etc.) Also, most of the races have 'charge times' where the car isn't running, but you have the array up to collect light in the early morning/later afternoon.
    4. As was already said, it's dependant upon the types of batteries. The GM SunRayce limits cars to using lead-acid to help even the playing field. Some races have more than one class, so that cars are ranked against similar cars. [Although, our team was in the lowest class, and won overall in Akita, Japan in '96]
    5. During the road race, the cars are normally part of a convoy. (lead vehicle, solar car, chase vehicle). I assure you that if someone pulled something like that, the folks from the chase vehicle would beat the crap out of the person.
    6. No clue, as we kept our GPS (and backup) in the chase vehicle. We were running Lynx (real time operating system) with a radio modem in the car. I didn't worry about that power, as it was running on a seperate bus (the motor was running at 60-72V, depending on the race)
  • Go Rosie! Go!
  • Don't you mean "Cannonball Run" instead of Smokey and the Bandit? You get Burt Reynolds either way.
  • >A solar powered car could never pass safety requirements.

    If you are referring to the cars that are built for these races, I can tell you that they are quite safe. There is a metal rollcage around the driver of course. The other materials that the car is made of are designed to be very light, and at the same time, be able to absorb shock. In a race a couple of years ago, a solar car ran into a bridge pylon, and the impact didn't even reach to the metal cage.

    Since these cars are driven on roads at the same time as "real" cars, safety is a large part of the design. It would be much easier if the roads were blocked off, so other cars wouldn't be a problem...
  • >Motor, Motor, Motor. There is a difference.

    This is why I'm not on the team anymore.... :)

  • Re:10 Days (Score:3)

    by D_Maul ( 53571 ) on Thursday July 12, 2001 @05:01AM (#90171)
    >>Unless it clouds over in which case it can take much longer to get to the finish line.

    I attend Iowa State, and I was on the Solar Car team my Freshman year. The race they had the year before I joined, was pretty much clouded over the whole time. With high efficiency solar cells, the car still receives energy, just not as much. This is why, in these races, strategy is a must.

    >I also wouldn't be suprised if they incorporated some sort of energy reclamation system into the brakes (like the one on the Honda Insight) to help keep the battery charged.

    The car we had then did have regenerative braking. Part of strategizing was determining whether it saved more energy on a hill to brake, and reclaim energy, or to give the car more speed, to make it over the next hill.

    These solar cars can go surprisingly fast. The car before the Oddysey could go upwards of 60mph, although it was really hard on the engine. The previous car probably weighed much more than the current one, since the old one had lead-acid batteries, and the new one has more advanced - lighter batteries.

  • I feel obliged to do a bit of flag raising for my school ( Not Iowa State [queensu.ca] ), who thanks to a great group of students and faculty have achieved some notable successes, namely:

    Please, check out their website! Remember, ( Not Iowa State [queensu.ca] ).

  • A nice movie to watch demonstrating this is "Race The Sun". It's about a group of kids from a Hawaii high school who decided to build a solar car for the local challenge, which then sent them on to the International challenge in Australia (going straight through the middle of Australia from south to north, which is pretty much like going the St. Louis to California leg, as far as the scenery is concerned.)

    icanneverbereached@sogoaway.com aint my address.
  • A solar powered car could never pass safety requirements. The best bet is an electric car with a solar charger.
  • GO MESSIAH COLLEGE!!!

    We actually usually do pretty well, despite never having too much money.

    Wooha.

  • I'm fairly sure that Honda's qualifying speed is not the record... I remember being told of one team (perhaps Biel!?) that had been 160km/h...

    The records as set in the Guiness Book, are fairly long in the tooth...

    Dave.
  • I assume we'll get another (well deserved IMHO) post regarding the World Solar Challenge [wsc.org.au] nearer the time of the race... But I thought I'd point out that the event is also on the way.

    ASC is looking great this year, with some new rules allowing more liberal use of higher technology. (e.g. space grade cells, etc...). (Similar to the WSC ;-).

    Our car will be up against a number of these in a few months (in the race from Darwin to Adelaide - WSC)! Looking forward to seeing you all over here...

    Sunswift 2 (the University of New South Wales Solar Racing Team's solar car) will be competing in the race...

    Our website is "in progress" (pending approval)... But is at: www.sunswift.com [sunswift.com]. Check it out in months to come. I'm looking forward to showing you the new car. It should be fairly special. Back to that abstract. ;-). Dave.

  • The best system is probably to mount the solar cells on the building roof in an optimal position and feed that energy into the grid or batteries, then charge the car's batteries/flywheel/hydorgen tank/whatever from that source.

    If you are going to spend money on expensive solar cells and related electronics, you might as well put them in the best place where they can work most efficiently for the longest amount of time.

    For short trips, there was a neat story in Discover about a electrical assisted pedal vehicle that sounded pretty cool.

  • Since when is starting from the mid-west considered "cross-country"? Oh, I guess that's to drive through the desert and avoid the global-warming-induced extra cloud cover on the east coast.
  • Hi, ass, "cross country" is a completely separate term which does NOT mean "to move across some part of a country" just because you feel like redefining it. Convenient that you didn't bother to look up "cross country":

    cross-country (krôs kuntre) Abbr. XC or X-C
    adj.

    1. Moving or directed across open country rather than following tracks, roads, or runs: a cross-country race.

    So why don't YOU give it a rest?
  • Um, no, ya see, YOU said that "cross country" simply means "moving across any part of a country", WHICH IS NOT WHAT IT MEANS. I pointed out that the term "cross country" is not a simple combination of the words "cross" and "country" and has its own separate meaning -- which is to move across part of a country WITHOUT USING ROADS OR TRACKS! That is a DIFFERENT MEANING. Your "definition" implies that "cross country" means simply moving across any part of a country, regardless of the method or whether you use roads or tracks. I pointed out that you were wrong. How does me pointing out that you're wrong, prove that you're right? Have you been taking logic classes at the University of Maximegalon or something?

  • Inquring monkeys want to know!

    1. Lying on your back in a solar car, do you get motion sickness?
    2. Due to the differences in air density and solar albido, which point on the route will give the maximum speed (assuming it's flat?)
    3. How does the efficiency, cost and effective lifetimes of the current generation of solar cells compare with, say, 25 years ago?
    4. How quiet are solar cars running at 70 mph compared to a typical internal combustion luxury car?

    I live near the Mother Road, so I'll keep a look out for .

  • The "here's my school" posts are going to get out of hand really quick; but oh well...
    Here's a link to the Rose-Hulman Solar Phantom [rose-hulman.edu]

    The Solar Phantom VI captured the No. 1 starting position by winning the Formula Sun
    Grand Prix in May at Topeka, Kan., by a record 284 miles. It was the latest achievement
    for the team, which has placed among the top three finishers in its last five races.

    More info can be found here [rose-hulman.edu]

  • It's nice to see you guys have a post about the PrISUm car on /.
    It's a great looking car this year boys and girls, have fun on the race... and do try to win. GSB supports you :)

  • Now this is funny. I'm going to have to share it with people. Though I would guess that it's somewhere on there.
  • Guys from Big Oil are investing heavily in solar technology. Notice the name for the old British Petroleum/Amoco company?

    Beyond Petroleum

    I think that says it all. Sure, they still spend a lot of money on oil, but they know better than anyone that our oil WILL run out, and I guaranteed they will be prepared for it before it happens.
  • Yup, you're right; I got the two mixed up. Apologies to the die-hard Burt Reynolds fans who're enraged that I could mistake one for the other.

    Cheers, British.

  • Questions (Score:5)

    by Dr_Cheeks ( 110261 ) on Thursday July 12, 2001 @03:23AM (#90188) Homepage Journal
    OK, I've got a few questions about solar-powered cars that I've been wondering about for a few years and I guess this is as good a place as any to ask:
    1. Does the race route have to be carefully planned to avoid long tunnels or deep forests?
    2. What sort of percentage of maximum speed is attainable on a cloudy day (compared to a sunny day)?
    3. Do the cars carry batteries as a backup in case of sudden eclipses etc. that block out the light briefly?
    4. If batteries (or some other energy store) are carried, how much running time can be added before the weight of the storage reduces the efficiency to a point where it'd be better to just run off solar power?
    5. Do you ever get kids who think it's funny to throw tins of paint at your cars to cover the photovoltaic cells?
    6. What sort of a drain on the speed is the Linux-GPS setup?
    7. Just how fast do these cars go anyway? Are we talking Smokey and The Bandit or what?
    Cheers. I look forward to being enlightened.
  • Hmm, that explains why I was always tired after those school cross-country runs !

    We'd actually traversed an entire country !

    Gosh, how Anal of me not to notice...
  • Well, ya know, global warming => rising sea levels, so Chicago will eventually be on the East Coast. The race organizers are just being forward-thinking.

  • A couple years ago, the college team cars stopped in Atlanta and my (at the time) 4-year-old daughter got to see them up close. If you're anywhere near the route, please TAKE THE KIDS TO SEE THIS! It may forever change their impression of what can be done with solar power but more importantly, they can see intelligence and determination in action!

    I have a question for any and all race participants: During the course of the race, do any of the drivers actually have to BE RACE DRIVERS, i.e., do you ever "toss" the cars, try to go flat-out thru turns, do adhesion-limit braking, etc.?

  • I've been wondering what sort of efficiency gains one could derive from a vehicle that used a hybrid-electric engine (using gas, ethanol, hydrogen, etc., in the combustion engine) or a fuel cell along with a layer of photovoltaic cells.

    Obviously, the big problem with solar is that it is not sufficient by itself to power a conventional car. Anyone who has ever looked at the design of a solar racer realizes that significant sacrifices have to be made in terms of conventional design and comfort to achieve the desired performance characteristics. However, rather than trying to power a car based purely on a hybrid engine or solar technology, a combination of the two might make for some very interesting results.

    First, the car would have an extended range between refuelings compared to that of any purely hybrid-electric or fuel-cell-powered vehicle. This much is obvious, so we won't dwell on this too long, other than too point out that the characteristics that we would see would bear some resemblance to the famous rocket equation. By adding to the range of vehicle, the solar cells would have that much more time in the sun to derive power, which would extend travel time a bit more, and so on. We could see a much bigger boost in terms of energy gained than one might initially think.

    Second, the car would actually possess the ability to store power while sitting in traffic (as opposed to expending fuel, which is the current norm) or sitting parked on the driveway. A few batteries, or better yet a flywheel system (which might be more useful if used in conjuction with a regenerative braking system), could store a nice surplus of power over and above what the solar cells and main engine alone would produce, further extending the vehicle's range.

    Third (though this would require some further technological development) while the car was sitting parked on the driveway over a longer period of time, the energy derived from the solar system could actually refill a hydrogen fuel tank with a fairly straightforward assembly (though current technology would likely make the cost of creating such an assembly prohibitive, at least for now). Either the H2O byproduct of combustion or fuel cell reaction could be stored in a tank to be electrolyzed, with the hydrogen returned to the cryogenic tank, or a condensor could be added to remove water vapour from the air, which would then go through the electrloytic process, etc.

    Fourth and finally, a hybrid wouldn't suffer the main drawback of a purely solar car, that being the obvious inability to drive at night.

    This likely won't happen too soon, but I still think that the possibilies are intriguing.

  • where their vehicles will be commandeered by the state and used to provide an alternative energy source to PG&E.
  • While I despise them, Microsoft aren't exactly the epitome of evil. The mining companies who got the CIA to assassinate Salvadore Allende, the democratically elected president of Chile, are evil. The oil companies funding the death squads in East Timor are evil. The tobacco companies who lied for a century about their product are evil.

    As far as I know, Microsoft hasn't managed to murder or torture even one person yet. Face it, when it comes to evil, Microsoft's pretty small beans.

    --
  • You know, I would love to watch this sort of competition on television. Anyone up for making GTV - Geek Television?

    --
  • Hybrids are on the way (hopefully sooner than later). Of course, when you see the grill of a large SUV on your ass getting 13mpg you realize that people will never change their habits unless we run out of oil. :^/

    --
  • that's right - it's really a question of efficiency but most people are dumbly impressed with just raw power .. I did the '94 race with lead-acid batteries and industrial grade solar cells for Univ of MD - I believe our top speed was somewhere around 85-90mph (good gearing) - but the last leg (only around 55 miles) we only sustained 55-60 for about an hour

    Keep in mind that you're racing a car designed to run off 1200-1500 Watts (the power a hair dryer consumes.) .. The brakes are much more effecient though with regenerative braking .. we hit our car with the trailing vehicle at a stop light - had to jumper out like 2 solar cells - fun engineering project.

  • We have a name, you know: Burties.

    Thank you for your apology. I will be sure to cover it at our next meeting. That is, if I can find another person to be in the club with me.

  • Yay Rose! Break a...err...cell... Good luck guys
  • "Oh, I guess that's to drive through the desert and avoid the global-warming-induced extra cloud cover on the east coast."
    ...OK, since when is the middle of the US a desert??? I'm glad to see you were modded to "Troll" status. Though I think you would have been further modded down if /. allowed...
  • Add to that United Fruit, now United Brand (Chiquita), whhich provoked wars in Latin America, which left 1000s of dead inhabitants. Just to facilitate growing their fucking bananas.

    I agree, that compared to those scumbags, Micro$oft, despite their lies and their depictable business practices are a bunch of choir boys.

    However, a company - especially one with the symbolic value like Disney - getting rich on brainwashing kids, is pretty high on the evil scale in my book.

  • Exxon (Score:4)

    by CaptainZapp ( 182233 ) on Thursday July 12, 2001 @03:57AM (#90202) Homepage
    from the exxon-hates-these-people dept.

    Actually, you could be quite right here, Michael. In the wonderful, corporate-sponsored brainwas^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H educational world of Disney Worlds Epcot there is an Exxon sponsored "History of Energy" run.

    Allthough it's a fun run, it nearly made me barf. The kiddies are told The "history" of energy purely from the sponsors perspective and agenda. The fact that energy could actually be conserved and used responsibly was just ridiculed in one snide side remark.

    It was then, when I realised that Disney is a truely and absolutly evil corporation, unmatched even by M$.

  • After the Milky Way and Andromeda galaxy collision [slashdot.org] posting and the article about the Sun going red giant [slashdot.org], I'm getting the idea that these Solar races should be held more often than yearly. With only a few billion years left, we are now running out of Solar vehicle races.

  • What are the steps needed to be taken until we have solar energy run cars in our cities ?

    There isn't enough solar energy striking an area the size of a car to power one effectively. These races are more in the way of promotional and helping research.

    1Alpha7

  • Sorry, I had to:

    The champions [umr.edu]

    One of our few braggin rights...
    It's much more interesting not the technical merit in these cars (although certainly noteworthy), but more the teamwork involved. Our school, 98% engineering majors, has psych majors on the team. It's interesting to watch them all pull together and play the strenghts best. (Interestingly enough, it seems that quite often your best strength is outside of your own major.) Heck, people even sign up just to be janitors for the team, to be part of it. And then to watch the student teams (there are a few that aren't students) break out things that real companies come to look at because we've done better than they had so far, and they've got $$$ to put into it.
  • Absolutely no paradox at all.

    The first router is a device which routs, rout being pronounced rowt, hence it is a rowter.

    The secon router is one which deals with routes; route being pronounced root, the device is a rooter.

    Absolutely no contradiction or paradox at all - perhaps you ought to learn your native language before professing shame at using it, eh?
  • Well, firstly we need more efficient solar panels. Most commercial-grade photovoltaic panels are (at best) 20% efficient. Meaning? Meaning you need a lot of panels to create a significant enough flow to power the car.

    Secondly, we need smaller, more efficient batteries. The single greatest technological reason hybrid and electric cars are not all over our streets is because too much space and weight is lost to batteries. Make smaller, more efficient batteries, and these cars become more feasible.

    And, we need to completely run out of dino oil for the world to put the internal combustion engine into the Smithsonian for good.

    Kit

    Oh, yeah. Go Michigan Tech! [mtu.edu]

  • Actually, if you were to study the process of making all the composite materials and solar cells that solar cars are made of, I'm pretty sure that you'll discover that solar cars do more damage to the environment than old diesel trucks.

    Seriously, though (as I'm sure has already been posted) the whole point of these races (or rayces asd the case was for Sunrayce) is to test the bounds of effiency. All the cars have a limited area of solar cells, so they all get rougly the same amount of energy (1 kW if I recall correctly). The challenge is to build a car light enough (composites), and efficient enough (motors from companies like New Generation Motors [ngm.com]) to maximize the distance that you get from your limited energy supply.

    In case you're wondering I used to be on UPenn's solar racing team [upenn.edu] Go Penn!!

  • > about how we've utilized Linux on our team

    This is obviously not a Microsoft sponsored race! Damn Universities! Don't you know you're suppose to get prior approval from Microsoft before you do such things??

    *QH picks up the red Microsoft phone on his desk*
    QH: Bill...We have a situation. The free thinkers are at it again...

    Scientist...
    Geesh...

  • The 10-day race ... teams will cross the finish line on the afternoon of July 25th.

    Unless it clouds over in which case it can take much longer to get to the finish line. Guess that's why it's held in the summer.


    Pinky: "What are we going to do tomorrow night Brain?"
  • As a student from Iowa State University, I can honestly say I hear too much about that damn car already. They usually tend to do really well in races, but its just a solar powered car designed for racing.

    The cars have had many setbacks as shown at:
    http://www.prisum.iastate.edu/press/

    And generally, I find it annoying that my tutition money goes to pay for this and I have absolutely *no* say against it whatsoever.

    However, just as a side note, they've been working on getting outside funding now for the last few years and I've been impressed with what they've done. I only wish half the ISU organizations were as serious about getting outside funding as Team PrISUm is.

    I just wish I'd quit hearing about that damn car.
  • None of those fuckers should be getting my money. That's the whole point!
  • All I know is that they better not leave their cars parked on the street over night. Claremont has very disgruntled police officers that like to ticket cars in the dark of the night.
  • The mos important first step is that the technology has to become more affordable. No one is going to drive around in a solar car right now, it just isn't practical. If you live in a high density population area, there are much more reasonable options available to you. For example, you could ride a bus, subway, ride a bike, or use good old fashioned foot power.

    Solar powered vehicles are certainly not ready for prime time now, but if you wish to reduce pollution, etc., there are steps you can take (perhaps literally) that can make a difference.

  • Ooooooooooh, _that_ Route 66!!!! (Score:3)

    by JohnTheFisherman ( 225485 ) on Thursday July 12, 2001 @04:31AM (#90215)
    The 10-day race follows old Route 66 (parallels I-55 from Chicago to St. Louis, I-44 from St. Louis to Oklahoma City, and I-40 from Oklahoma City to Los Angeles)...

    I'd never heard of that 'Route 66' before, but when you mentioned the fabled freeways of song and television - Interstates 55, 44, and 40 - it just came to life, man. Thanks.

  • I hope they hand out good maps. I recently tried to get my kicks down that once noble highway. For the first thousand or so miles, it turns out to be almost unfollowably convoluted. For the next thousand, someone has put a freeway on top of large chunks of it.

    The quality of the road is remarkably good, at least considering that some of the road surface is more than half a century old. That dosen't mean it isn't rather scary in spots, as when you troop out across the wilderness on the dirt trail that leads into New Mexico, but that is about the best bit of the whole trip.

    Lastly, I wouldn't be eager to cross into California along the old route from Friday untill... maybe late Monday. Traffic through the mountain pass, like when, on my trip across, a thousand bikers took over a hamlet that didn't show up on maps, makes the trip somewhat unpleasant. Then the final jump, the one across the California border, ends up being on the freeway anyway.

    So... I'm sure the race organisers know what they are doing. God help them if they don't.
  • Go State! Our new car will own you ;)
  • Does the car have "Funded by the GSB" written on it? If not, I'd better call my representative and have their funding cut.

    The truly important issues are whether or not they can wear hats though.

    fscking GSB

  • If you ain't drinkin' at the L&F you must be some kind of wussy.
  • Hey, there's nothing funny about student government buddy. Those people had at least four or five of their closest friends vote for them.
  • There isn't enough solar energy striking an area the size of a car to power one effectively.

    Yes, these aren't conventional cars in any way, especially not in appearance. Many of the ones that I've seen from races in the past look like very long, wide, flat beetles (the insect, not the VW) so as to increase the surface area that is being hit by sunlight. They are usually the size of a couple of conventional cars.

    Say "NO!" to tax money for religious groups. [thedaythatcounts.org]
  • But the only thing they give out are harmless gasses such as oxygen and hydrogen.

    Harmless? I wouldn't call them harmless. Maybe not even mostly harmless. Remember the Hindenberg? :-)

    Say "NO!" to tax money for religious groups. [thedaythatcounts.org]

  • Re:10 Days (Score:3)

    by ocbwilg ( 259828 ) on Thursday July 12, 2001 @04:32AM (#90223)
    Unless it clouds over in which case it can take much longer to get to the finish line.

    Probably, but not much longer. Many of the designs (if not all of them) incorporate some sort of battery system. The solar cells provide energy to drive the motor, but they also charge a battery to be used when it's not as bright out/overcast. I also wouldn't be suprised if they incorporated some sort of energy reclamation system into the brakes (like the one on the Honda Insight) to help keep the battery charged.

    Granted, a couple days of serious overcast/thunderstorms would cause quite a bit of delay, but then the car that was most efficient would probably have an advantage (having larger energy reserves, being able to build power on lower light levels). That's the cool thing about engineering races.

    Say "NO!" to tax money for religious groups. [thedaythatcounts.org]
  • For some of those jokers, going cross-forest is pushing it.

    --

  • I've been wondering what sort of efficiency gains one could derive from a vehicle that used a hybrid-electric engine (using gas, ethanol, hydrogen, etc., in the combustion engine) or a fuel cell along with a layer of photovoltaic cells.
    Most cars seem to have enough area on the hood, roof and trunk to accomodate the equivalent of about 2 120-watt solar panels, perhaps 3. If you consider that the car might get the equivalent of 6 hours of full sun per day, that yields 1440 to 2160 watt-hours on a sunny day.

    If you assume that a hybrid car that is capable of running as a pure electric (which the Honda Insight cannot, and the Toyota Prius can barely do) has similar energy consumption to a pure electric, you are probably talking between 170 and 250 watt-hours per mile (probably less in traffic due to the low speeds). That would give you between 6 and 13 solar-powered miles per (sunny) day.

    I live close to work because I hate long commutes. If I could get a car that could do even 6 miles/day on solar, I could go all week without burning any gasoline or using any other source of energy.
    --

  • Normally I'd agree with you, and the lifespan of a solar panel is typically much longer than the lifespan of a car (though you could design them to be detached and used separately afterward as part of a recycling scheme). On the other hand, there's no guarantee that you'd have a connection between the panel (or electrical grid) and the car when you wanted one, and then there is what is perhaps the most important thing: public awareness. Driving around in a car covered with solar cells makes a statement that driving a car with a plug does not.
    --
  • Yes, well done Queen's. You may have your solar car, since we all know that [queensu.ca]U of T [utoronto.ca] is the best school in Canada, nay, the Universe. Who names a school "Queen's", anyway?
  • I'm not a specialist in US law (*sic*) but if I am to abuse it a little bit more than it naturally is :

    I happen to have bought "LOTS" of Oil Compaany Shares. By implementing Solar Power, you DAMAGE MY BUSINESS ! and my income...

    Under US Law, do I have the right to sue ?
    8|

  • It was based on a true story, albeit a fairly mundane one - American High School raises money, competes in Australian Solar Car Race, blah blah blah.

    I haven't seen the film, but the thing that gives me the shits is that instead of using the ACTUAL finish of the Australian Solar Car race - my home city of Adelaide - they used Sydney. And I'm guessing that you could see the Opera House in every single shot. They also filmed the scenes at the start of the race in Alice Springs, instead of Darwin.

    But then, the X-files is supposed to be in the US, and they shoot it in Vancouver, so who am I to complain?

    --
    This post is about truth, beauty, freedom and above all things, Karma
  • But if the gas prices are so high, how can they develop new vehicles? They'll still need parts shipped, and with no gas they'll be stuck.

    No gas = no cars = no solar cars

    The only way we'll get them is when the powers-that-be realise that petrol is on the way out (perhaps physically, or just ethically). That way it'll still be around to be used to make the next-generation of car engines. It isn't going to happen over night :)

  • But you can cross a river on a raft, but not necessarily all the way.

    If you look at the definition here [dictionary.com] you will see that there is a definition for everyone's argument, but the fact that there is a definition that suits the article, means they're not wrong. I'm not trying to prove everyone else wrong, but that Dorm's right in what he says. Stop being so competative.

  • Your shares are not a business, but an investment. As you invested, you would have been shown a bit of paper saying that the market can go up as well as down, and that you have no recourse if it does go down, taking your portfolio with it... ;)
  • No. We pronounce it as a series of high screams, followed by some abdominal grunting.

    Oh Cisco router - yeah. 'Sisko rooter' would be about it.

  • Hey - you want contradiction? President Bush. ;)

    I have no idea why we pronounce them differently, but as I hardly ever even see DIY equipment, let alone mention it in public, I'm prepared to live with it.

  • Whatever, sunshine.

    'Genetically fucked up'? Please explain.

  • I've heard 'em on Cops say 'rowt' when talking about roads. Funilly enough, he didn't mention Cisco routers, though...
  • Ok. You just mentioned 1/30,000,000 of the population. By that example, if I find 10 people in the US who are ugly, then I'd have proved the US to be equally as ugly. Let's make a start: How many people in your mother's family?
  • Well, since you put it so eloquently, I must comply.
  • But we're still not as fat as the average American. Plus, we call fries 'chips' over here, and no-one eats crows. That'd be the same as asking if you'd like some fries with a red indian.

    (Except we didn't kill all the crows and steal their land, reducing them to making a living from casinos out in the styx, whilst symultanously destroying their ancient culture and sacred land).

  • 'Race the Sun [imdb.com]' (1996)

    'highly fictionized' - what? An American film highly fictionized? Never....

    *cough*
    Saving Private Ryan
    U571
    Braveheart
    Titanic
    *cough*

    :)

  • Steam wastes too much energy. Think of all that steam and sound steam engines make - that's just a large version of what you propose. All that steam and noise is wasted energy, whereas photovoltaic-powered motors waste very little (pretty much silent in comparison, and you can store the energy you don't use, whereas steam engines require venting if they have too much steam)
  • Such as administering artificialcheese.com? Thanks.
  • Have you run out of ritalin or something? You've just proved what I said. If your definintion had said 'cross the entire country, from coast-to-coast' then I would have been wrong. And yes, it is convenient that I didn't look up 'cross country', as everyone was complaining about the 'cross' part, not the fact that it had anything to do with a country.

    How does this site maintain even a shred of dignity with fools like you running around putting your feet in your mouths. English is a very useful tool if used properly.

  • Africa? I'm surprised you even know where it is, but it appears that you don't know much about what went on there. What we did was take a country of people living in huts, and we gave them jobs mining/farming/building. They could then use that money to buy stuff. When we left, they got what we left behind (Trains, hospitals, airfields, ports, houses etc). We didn't kill them all. The French did kill most of theirs, though.
  • But the only thing they give out are harmless gasses such as oxygen and hydrogen. The difference with solar cars and petroleum cars is that the sun's power is already where it's being used. It's analogous to the wind that powers ships. Whether you use it or not, it's still there, and if you do use it, the effect in the environment is little or none.

  • Jokers complaining about 'cross country' - read (Score:3)

    by TikkaMassala ( 411282 ) on Thursday July 12, 2001 @03:27AM (#90247)
    cross (krôs)
    n.
    A movement from one place to another, as on a stage; a crossing.

    So, cross country is moving from one place to another, within a country. Oh look - that's what they're doing. Now give it a rest, please.

  • Re:Questions (Score:5)

    by Phoebus0 ( 446231 ) on Thursday July 12, 2001 @04:13AM (#90248)
    I've been involved in three of these races (Sunrayce '95, '97, '99) for one team [messiah.edu], so here's some answers..
    1. The route is not planned to avoid anything except really steep grades, and even then there are some pretty steep hills. This is because most of the motors in these vehicles are only about 14 hp.
    2,3,4. The vehicles carry batteries with around 4 kWh of power in them. What matters is that with the different battery technologies, the amount of weight is different. 4kWh in lead-acid batteries is about 360 lbs., while 4kWh in Li-Ion is about 70 lbs. On a fully charged battery pack, some of the top cars can run at 55 - 60 mph for 3-4 hours. (That's with no sun at all) A solar car is really an electric car with a solar charging system.
    5. Actually, no. Most people just stare and point. If anyone actually tried to throw anything at the cars they would probably be tackled because solar cells are really fragile.
    6. The telemetry systems are allowed to be on a seperate battery system from the car's main power, because of the power drain issue and because of the way that the power must be disconnected, and still have telemetry going.
    7. Theoretical top speed on the most commonly used motor made by NGM [ngmcorp.com] is approximately 72 mph. Not fast by most recognition, but when you are lying on your back 18 inches off the pavement, it seems mighty fast.
  • Yay Rose! Yay Solar Phantom! Yay Drew, Q, Dan, Barton, and ya'll.

    Rose-Hulman will be #1 this year in the challenge. The last time, cloudy weather made Rose come in third overall (and with some aerodynamic problems on the tail). But on the single sunny day, the Phantom kicked some serious butt. I wish I could be down in Chi-town to send off my buds, but I don't even have an intact car at the moment, let alone a solar one! So I'm stuck in Green Bay. I'll be keeping track of the stats.

    Good luck, Solar Phantom Team.
  • What are the steps needed to be taken until we have solar energy run cars in our cities ?

  • Re:What next ? (Score:5)

    by Paintthemoon ( 460937 ) on Thursday July 12, 2001 @03:16AM (#90254) Homepage
    Um, get a government not run by guys from Big Oil...

  • Photovoltaics, not Linux (Score:5)

    by standards ( 461431 ) on Thursday July 12, 2001 @03:08AM (#90255)
    Although it's great to hear about the use of Linux in the race, the real exciting thing going on here is the wide-spread use of new photovoltaics made of integrated conjugated polymers.

    http://www.acs.org/nsa/intcong.htm [acs.org]

    Sure, not all the teams are using them - but many are, and this is sure to change the dynamics (if not the outcome) of the race.

    We're talking 150% greater efficiency here, and at lower cost.

    The photovoltaics is the interesting story - after all, we all could guess that many participants are using Linux and GPS!

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