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GNOME GUI

Timothy Ney Hired As Gnome Foundation Director 89

Posted by Hemos from the great-news-for-gnome dept.
Leslie Proctor writes: "The GNOME Foundation announced today that they have hired Timothy Ney as Executive Director. Tim is well known in the Free software community for his work with the FSF. More details at www.gnome.org." The actual press release is online, as well as Gnome news. Having worked/talked with Tim before, this is great news for The Gnome Foundation -- Tim's an incredible guy.
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Timothy Ney Hired As Gnome Foundation Director More

Timothy Ney Hired As Gnome Foundation Director

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  • with any luck... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Satai ( 111172 ) on Wednesday August 22, 2001 @09:20PM (#2206362)
    ...this discussion won't degenerate into millions of posts yelling "Tim Ney! TIM NEY!!"

  • Nice to see growth for a change (Score:3, Interesting)

    by moniker_21 ( 414164 ) on Wednesday August 22, 2001 @09:25PM (#2206372)
    Between Covad, Loki, and god knows who else having financial trouble, it's really nice to see a company going in the right direction and hiring people. Especially in an area where Linux has been labeled as lacking, namely in the GUI department. I can't wait to see what GNOME has in store next. Good luck and congrats Tim!
  • More than 500 computer developers, including over 100 full-time, paid developers, contribute their time and effort to the project.

    What a cool statistic! Now I'm really interested to see this statistic for KDE. Somehow I get the impression that the number of paid KDE developers is smaller than 100.

    How is it that KDE is keeping up with them then? (surpassing, even, IMHO) Greater support from non-paid developers? Perhaps I am wrong about the number of paid KDE developers.

    • I think the reason is political. KDE has a loose policy where lots of developers contribute what they want and the kore team accepts whatever meets their standards and has a logical place in KDE.

      GNOME on the other hand is an official GNU project and subject to the squabbles that accompany that official political role. The developers get into arguments a lot more and it is much less clear to developers if their work will be applauded or ignored. Under the circumstances, they do pretty well.

      Even for paid developers, who is to say that Ximian, Sun and Red Hat want the same thing as RMS and the steering comittee.
    • KDE has it's base done (very well) by a whole other group called Trolltech. They make QT, and that leaves the KDE team to focus on things like Konqueror, Koffice, and all the other things that make up the desktop.
    • Well, according to this [mandrakesoft.com] slide given by David Faure(one of the main KDE developers), KDE in June 2000 had 300 developers who had CVS write access. Now, this was the KDE 1.1.x days, and since there has been a near-rewrite of kde (kde 2.0) and two more versions (kde 2.1 and kde 2.2), I'd imagine that there'd be over at least 500-600 developers with CVS access.

      From what I've seen, there is a much smaller "core" group in GNOME development. Probably not more than 25. However, there are many more people, like with KDE, who contribute patches.

    • Somehow I get the impression that the number of paid KDE developers is smaller than 100.

      Depends on how you count. Strictly speaking, the number of full-time, paid KDE developers is more like 7 -- David Faure and Laurent Montel at Mandrake, Waldo Bastian at SuSE, and probably a few more I don't know about. Browse the developer profiles [kde.org] and see how few paid coders there are.

      Even if you include all the guys at TrollTech working on Qt, I doubt if it's close to 100. Eazel probably spent more money and employed more workers than the cumulative history of KDE and Qt togther.

      Out of curiosity, where are all these paid full-time Gnome workers? Ximian can't be that big -- are they at Sun? Red Hat?

      It's funny how they stress how many paid devs they have. I'm wondering whether you should brag about how many or how few people work on your project...

      • You do if your after a corporate market.

        The reason people run things at home (now) is because they run it at work. Your average Joe who can't remember how to use Word97 since Word2000 replaced it at their office.

        So, Gnome coming standard on various OSs (even if it's only servers for now) at the office will encourage people to install it at home for consistency.

        KDE is going the other route. Trying to appease people at home, and hoping from there it works its way into the corporations..

        KDE will start out strong, but Gnome *should* (with a good product) be able to capture a significant amount of desktop space. That said, I don't think either can unroot Microsoft from the desktop.

    • Re:Wow (Score:1)

      by Ghyl ( 512941 )
      How is it that KDE is keeping up with them then? (surpassing, even, IMHO)
      Certainly in regards to the DE itself, KDE seems quite close. However, IMO it is in apps department where GNOME has forged a large and growing lead. This is where the more numerous GNOME developers are having the most obvious effect. Just to name a few apps where GNOME has a big edge: the office apps (Gnumeric, Abiword, OpenOffice, Evolution, Gnucash) also The Gimp, Nautilus, Gstreamer, Galeon and many more. As for the major apps where KDE has he edge, there's not much more than Kdevelop.

      • IMO it is in apps department where GNOME has forged a large and growing lead.

        That should change after KDE 3 is released, since the API will remain stable (binary-compatible even!) for some time, allowing an application base to build up. I think it was the big change from KDE 1 to KDE 2 that made KDE fall behind in the apps department, and GNOME will likely experience a similar phenomenon with its next major release, probably occurring within KDE 3's lifetime.

        Besides, I like Konqueror is better than Nautilus, and KOffice 1.1 is looking good (the 1.0 release was a total joke, but so much has changed since then, just try it!). Aethra is coming along well in the "Giant E-mail/PIM monstrosity" department. Also, I think aRts contains much of the functionality that is in GStreamer (but I could be mistaken). Even if GStreamer is better, it is hardly a GNOME-specific project and could be adopted as part of KDE's multimedia system.

        • That should change after KDE 3 is released, since the API will remain stable (binary-compatible even!) for some time, allowing an application base to build up. I think it was the big change from KDE 1 to KDE 2 that made KDE fall behind in the apps department, and GNOME will likely experience a similar phenomenon with its next major release, probably occurring within KDE 3's lifetime.



          Unfortunately, KDE 3 will break binary compatibility with KDE 2, which will definitely hurt KDE's application base; KDE 3 will have both API changes and use the new TrollTech Qt 3.0.

          From the Linux Kernel Cousin archives "The Road Ahead: KDE after 2.2" [zork.net]:

          there was concern over third party developers as Waldo Bastian noted saying, "Although I understand the advantages, in general I think that major version updates are very bad for KDE because it fragmentates the efforts of third party developers. There are plenty of applications out there that have never been ported to KDE 2, hell, even in our own CVS we have tons of applications that still have to be properly adapted. (grep for QDialog to see what I mean) In think that KDE's current strength is its framework and that actual applications are its weak points. Moving to Qt 3 is a huge improvement for the framework, but it puts a strain on application developers. Development can go too fast as well, you know. Having a great KDE 3 desktop is nice, but not if we lose all application developers in the process."

          • "Unfortunately, KDE 3 will break binary compatibility with KDE 2, which will definitely hurt KDE's application base; KDE 3 will have both API changes and use the new TrollTech Qt 3.0."



            GCC 3 also breaks binary compatibility

          • Unfortunately, KDE 3 will break binary compatibility with KDE 2, which will definitely hurt KDE's application base; KDE 3 will have both API changes and use the new TrollTech Qt 3.0.

            Binary incompatibility is unavoidable, since GCC 3.0 isn't binary compatible with GCC 2.x. KDE is simply using the opportunity to break everything at once instead of having several smaller breaks which would be much worse.

            The API changes will be very minor. In fact, most KDE programs will probably be able to be ported with a Perl script or something similar. The idea is not to change the API so much as fix known problems with it in preparation for keeping it frozen for the future. This will be nothing at all like the KDE/QT 1 -> KDE/QT 2 change.

      • apps where GNOME has a big edge: the office apps (Gnumeric, Abiword, OpenOffice, Evolution, Gnucash) also The Gimp, Nautilus, Gstreamer, Galeon and many more

        Have you taken a look at KDE recently?

        KSpread and KWord are about on par with Gnumeric and Abiword. OpenOffice is not a part of gnome and nowhere near usable yet.
        For Evolution, KDE has Aethera, which isn't there yet, but catching up quickly.
        For Nautilus and Galeon, there's Konqueror - which you like better is mostly a matter of taste.
        Gimp is really ahead for people who can figure out how it works (and that's all but easy) - for others, Krayon (which isn't intended as a gimp replacement - more as something easy to use and still powerful) is better.

        Off the top of my head, here's other things where KDE is ahead:
        • API
        • Kontour (formerly KIllustrator)
        • KPresenter
        • KChart
        • Kivio
        • aRts (multimedia stuff)
        • and Abiword. OpenOffice is not a part of gnome and nowhere near usable yet.

          I think the Abiword developers would disagree with you there. Abiword is part of Gnome Office [gnome.org]. Its a testament to abiwords interoperability and cross platform status that you dont think its a gnome app, its a shame more Gnome apps dont try as hard to be cross platform.

        • Re:Wow (Score:1)

          by Ghyl ( 512941 )
          Off the top of my head, here's other things where KDE is ahead:...
          API - both projects would argue about which has the better API, all we can really go on is the quality of the apps.
          Kontour - I'd definitely give GNOME the edge here with Sodipodi/Sketch.
          KPresenter - is it better than Impress from OpenOffice?
          KChart - I don't know if you'd call this a major app. These functions are subsumed by Gnumeric. Guppi offers sophisticated graphing abilities.
          Kivio - this is only semi-free/open source software. If you want anything more than the basic shapes you have to buy theKompany's proprietary stencils. Of course, the KDE project could produce their own stencils, but this would step on theKompany's toes and destroy their business model, so I can't see it ever happening. In accepting Kivio, KDE has also accepted that they'll never have a fully free diagramming program to rival the commercial offerings. Therefore, Dia is the winner here.
          aRts - it's certainly better than esound, but is it better than ASD? We'll know when they're both finished. Gstreamer, and the GTK apps like XMMS give GNOME a clear edge in multimedia.
          • We can argue this all day but,

            > API - both projects would argue about which has the better API, all we can really go on is the quality of the apps.

            Yes, we can argue about the APIs, but which project has gone through a rewrite and two new versions over the last year. And which project has released a new version with not a whole lot of changes except for one buggy and slow app that is from a defunct company :) .

            > Kontour - I'd definitely give GNOME the edge here with Sodipodi/Sketch.

            I've tried both. Kontour seems a lot more advanced.

            > KPresenter - is it better than Impress from OpenOffice?

            Of all the KOffice apps, KPresenter is probably one of the most finished. And again, OpenOffice is NOT part of gnome.

            > KChart - I don't know if you'd call this a major app. These functions are subsumed by Gnumeric. Guppi offers sophisticated graphing abilities.

            Can't really comment on this.

            > Kivio - this is only semi-free/open source software. If you want anything more than the basic shapes you have to buy theKompany's proprietary stencils. Of course, the KDE project could produce their own stencils, but this would step on theKompany's toes and destroy their business model, so I can't see it ever happening. In accepting Kivio, KDE has also accepted that they'll never have a fully free diagramming program to rival the commercial offerings. Therefore, Dia is the winner here.

            Can't really comment on this.

            > aRts - it's certainly better than esound, but is it better than ASD? We'll know when they're both finished. Gstreamer, and the GTK apps like XMMS give GNOME a clear edge in multimedia.

            AFAIK, aRts, according to proposals at GUADEC is going to be used in GNOME 2.0? Noatun is a lot more advanced than XMMS will ever be.

            Not to risk trolling here, but GNOME development really seems stagnant compared to KDE.
    • > How is it that KDE is keeping up with them then?

      quality over quantity perhaps?
    • How is it that KDE is keeping up with them then? (surpassing, even, IMHO) Greater support from non-paid developers?


      Its the underlying library Qt. It supports C++ natively, and is developed by a company and a large team of paid developers. This makes people write KDE software.

      I prefered a lot of things about GNOME, but wanted to write object-oriented C++, and unfortunatley, Gtk-- is written by a single developer, and doesn't seem to develop as fast. Its possible that a product done by a company could have longer longevity than a product by a single individual too.


      So I went to Qt.

      • I had another reason for writing for QT as well - the fact that it has full support on both Windows, Linux, and (coming soon), the Mac (though I am unusure as to whether trolltech intend to release a free version as they have for Windows & Linux). Now, I'm only writing free software, but if I was to start writing code that I wished to sell, then I would want it to be cross platform (to capture as much of the market as possible), and I would want it to be easy to program (and QT is very easy to program).

        IMHO, this means that kde will in the future, when Linux gains more popularity on the desktop, have the advantage over GNOME for commercial developers, and so more "big" apps (and closed source, and non-distributable...) might appear for KDE than GNOME.

        If you consider this a good thing or a bad things I suppose depends on exactly where you stand on the Free software/open source argument.
    • From kde-common/accounts
      To be fair the number is slightly to large (you have to reduce the number by about 3).

      06.07.00 329
      10.08.00 344
      29.09.00 360
      06.10.00 366
      21.11.00 391
      10.12.00 402
      16.01.01 415
      23.02.01 431
      22.03.01 454
      20.04.01 471
      19.05.01 486
      18.06.01 506
      25.07.01 529
      21.08.01 546

  • THIS IS ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE... (Score:5, Funny)

    by gik ( 256327 ) on Wednesday August 22, 2001 @09:36PM (#2206391)
    I'm having trouble believing that this Gnome-related story wasn't ended with a "Personally, I use Konqueror..." or "...even though KDE does blah blah....".

    I think this is a first, ladies and gentlemen.

    • Yeah, the blatantly juvenile and contrarian wit of the Slashdot pseudo-editors is wicked annoying.

      Poster: "Scientists build a black box enabling anyone to travel through time, cure the common cold, and make food out of dirt."

      Slashdot Pseudo-editor: This is a good start, but when it can explain my phone bill and sterilize my navel ring, maybe I'll buy one!

  • Didn't this guy blow up a federal building or something?


    </joke>

  • As much as I apreciate the KDE efforts, I don't want Gnome to be left behind. What I like about GTK+/Gnome is that in contrast to Qt/KDE it is far easier to use in non-C++ languages. There a zillion of language bindings for GTK+/Gnome out, so I have the freedom to write for it in the language of my choice - hey, I can even use Haskell do write GTK+ apps :-)

    Besides, I like the fact that Gnome performs notably faster and less memory consumpting on smaller machines (my notebook comes to mind) - as long as you don't use Nautilus.

    BTW, any news on Nautilus? Although it's very bloated, I like that thing. Don't let it fade...

    • BTW, any news on Nautilus? Although it's very bloated, I like that thing. Don't let it fade...

      Seeing that God^H^H^HAlan Cox made some performance observations on one of the nautilus mailing lists (based on a almost complete lack of any caching for often-used fonts and file contents), I think you'll see the performance take a big leap when 1.0.5 comes out - there is still a fair amount of activity on the Nautilus code base.

      Cheers,

      Toby Haynes

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