
Self-Warming Jackets 323
jeffy124 writes: "Those of you in the frigid north who find their coats unfulfilling of their duties may be interested in a self-warming jacket. By using steel microfibres woven into the fabric plus a lithium battery, heat is actually generated to as much as 114 degrees fahrenheit. The jackets, sadly, come with a nasty price -- US$500. Among those interested in purchasing are skiers (including some Olympians), and the Military."
Finally... (Score:2, Funny)
...what? Why are you all looking at me like that?
microfibers, ok (Score:5, Funny)
-Do NOT do that.
Steel Wool and George Jetson (Score:2, Funny)
Also, reminds me of George Jetson in one episode (when he thought he was going to die) trying out some indestructable suit for Spacely Sprockets to win the Good Spacekeeping Seal. It survived all the tests, but was ruined when Jane put it in the wash. Dry Clean only!
I dunno about the submitter's jacket... (Score:4, Insightful)
Not to say that this isn't cool, but it seems a bit impractical. One wonders if it can sufficently operate as a normal jacket once its battery's worn out.
Re:I dunno about the submitter's jacket... (Score:1)
Just think if emergency situations -- fall in a puddle of water while separated from the group? Just turn on the coat! If you carry another battery and use the heat sparingly, it could easily save your life....
(Of course, REI must have been thinking the same thing when they dropped some poor guy in the snow.
Re:I dunno about the submitter's jacket... (Score:1)
Re:I dunno about the submitter's jacket... (Score:1)
sufficient. You need to get rid of
the wet clothes. There is a reason why extra
clothes is one of the 10 essentials.
For more severe hypothermia, it will be
necessary to warm the victim. Certainly if
you are in a group, someone else can warm
you up. If you are solo, your best bet will
be to prevent that situation from ever
occurring. And I doubt that anyone soloing
would want to carry the extra weight for
an emergency battery-powered heat-you-up
blanket.
Re:I dunno about the submitter's jacket... (Score:1)
necessary to warm the victim. Certainly if
you are in a group, someone else can warm
you up. If you are solo, your best bet will
be to prevent that situation from ever
occurring. And I doubt that anyone soloing
would want to carry the extra weight for
an emergency battery-powered heat-you-up
blanket."
I agree with you, but I was thinking of the gold-medal winning wrestler who just recently found himself in a survival situation.
You can read about it here:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?
He didn't have extra clothes or survival gear packed into his snowmobile. (Which would have saved his toes.)
The least he could have done is wear this coat on the trip. Assuming it still works after it's gotten wet, that is.
Re:I dunno about the submitter's jacket... (Score:2)
For the rest, snowmobilers dress very warmly, because they are going to be enduring extreme wind-chill for hours while not moving enough to generate much body heat. Not sure about Wyoming, but I'd have no worries about surviving a night here in a _dry_ snowmobile suit and boots. I'd dig into a snowbank at night, of course, but the suit itself is warm enough until you do something stupid. In daylight, I'd hike out, making sure to open the suit up enough that I didn't sweat in it. But I know how to navigate in the woods at any season, if you don't and people are going to be looking for you, it's a better idea to make some sort of highly visible markings, then stay put.
Trouble is, this guy got his boots full of icy water, and soaked the suit to where it wasn't much of an insulator. And maybe he had survival gear -- on the river bottom with the snowmobile...
I doubt that a battery-operated jacket would be working after a dunking, and if it was working, that it would provide enough heat before the batteries went out. It would be much better to stuff some waterproof matches and maybe some sort of fuel in your pockets.
Re:I dunno about the submitter's jacket... (Score:2)
Well, the whole point of it is that it's warm. So, yeah, it isn't cool.
Re:I dunno about the submitter's jacket... (Score:2)
I would imagine somebody will come out with a recharging battery that plugs into a "shoe generator".
Now if they would add microwave pockets, I could cook a potato...
military battery safety (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:military battery safety (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:military battery safety (Score:2)
Re:military battery safety (Score:3)
Re:military battery safety (Score:2)
Re:military battery safety (Score:2)
Re:military battery safety (Score:2)
Re:military battery safety (Score:5, Funny)
Re:military battery safety (Score:2)
Okay, seriously, there are a lot of out-of-the-line-of-fire jobs that would benefit from such a coat. Also, there are other battery technologies out there, shielding, batteries embedded in boots, etc...
Re:military battery safety (Score:2)
Would the answer be to make a bullet-proof self-heating vest?
Re:military battery safety (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:military battery safety (Score:2)
Absolutely the same is true for the helmets, be them simple sttel or hi-tech kevlar - it is just a thin piece of metal and believe me it rips...
Re:military battery safety (Score:2)
Re:military battery safety (Score:3, Funny)
<cringe>
Ionization of sweat problems, too? (Score:2)
Re:military battery safety (Score:2)
That gives me an idea... can you have an antibiotic and/or steriliazation suit? Not that it would help a whole lot...
Re:military battery safety (Score:1)
Oh? (Score:2, Funny)
I guess the steel mesh woven into it makes them partially metal jackets then....
$500 isn't anything for many skiers (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:$500 isn't anything for many skiers (Score:2, Informative)
probably Goretex or a Goretex clone that
make the pants both waterproof and
breathable. Cheap nonbreathable pants
are fine if you aren't exerting yourself
much, but you work up a sweat, you'll be as
wet on the inside as on the outside.
Normally I wear waterproof/breathable stuff
when I'm in the mountains. I'll take the
cheap stuff only if I want to travel really
compact and light (i.e. trail-run), and I'll
take the cheap stuff in addition if I am
glissading.
Re:$500 isn't anything for many skiers (Score:1)
nyeahh! nyeahh!
Re:$500 isn't anything for many skiers (Score:2)
Re:Absolutely! (Score:2, Funny)
North Face : Old News : Check Here (Score:4, Informative)
Wow! These were shown in Mens Health magazine here in the UK before Christmas...
Slashdot/CNN need to get with the times or get more healthy! Check it out! [northface.com]
MET 5 Jacket [northface.com]
Re:North Face : Old News : Check Here (Score:4, Funny)
Batman had this years ago. (Score:1, Funny)
even cooler...err warmer? (Score:1)
Fuel cells!! (Score:1)
Pricey? (Score:1)
Murphy (Score:4, Insightful)
- Batteries work very bad/not at all in cold conditions, you world have to keep the entire resupply of batteries inside the jacket.
- Adds complexity, will probably not work when it is really needed (Murphys laws of combat)
- Cotton still works very well from -15 deg C
to -30 -15 deg C, in fact t-shirt, jacket and winter camo works quite well if walking.
- May be usable as a emergency blanket, if you need to reheat someone suffering from mild hypothermia. Having tried that once, it was not very pleasant.
Re:Murphy (Score:1)
Well, the battery would be right next to the core of your body, so presumably they would be warm enough to heat the jacket. (And in turn, heat themselves.)
"Cotton still works very well from -15 deg C"
You've got to be kidding. Do you have any idea how many soldiers and weekend warriors would die in the wilderness if you sent them out wearing cotton?
Cotton soaks up water. That means if you sweat at all, they'll find the body sometime in the spring.
"Having tried that once, it was not very pleasant."
You didn't happen to be wearing cotton, were you?
:-)
Re:Murphy (Score:2, Informative)
It is very poor at keeping heat in when
wet. And it is slow to dry. Polyester
or fancy wicking fabrics function much better.
You can find cheap polyester shirts/underpants
for near the same price as cotton.
Benefits of Electric Clothing (Score:3, Informative)
The main reason I wear them, is for when you need to be stationary in the elements for an extended period of time. Sure, I'd be warm if I were moving about, but if you have to sit still for 60 minutes it's going to take a *LOT* of insulation to equal the warmth of a good electric vest.
There's another subtle difference between heavy insulation and active heating. Alterness. You'd be amazed at how fast your reaction time sinks when you get a little cold. That's not so bad when your hiking along a trail, but if you're driving a motorcycle (like me) or holding a gun (soliders) then a half second can be critical.
Re:Murphy (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Murphy (Score:2)
Batteries are not very efficent, but thanks to our friend thermo-dynamics those losses are converted to heat...
... Now the reason you want active heating is simple, many of the tasks they are talking about fall under the category of hurry up and wait.
A bit of background, one of my hobbies is caving in the northeast. The caves year round are mid 40's, wet, 100% humidity. When things go wrong you and the injured party can be stranded for long periods of time sitting arround while things are done to extract said party. The cold rocks and mud will just suck the heat out of your body faster than you can generate it. Tricks we use are, use 'space blankets (aluminized mylar, trash bags work just as well)', minimize physical contact with the cold rock (roll them on there side, sit on your helmet, on a pack, foam pad, ect), try to move the injured party out of any standing water, put a wool or fleece cap on (a large percentage of your non contact heat loss), use active heating if possible (candles, carbide (old miner's) lamps, heat packs (reusable, single use ones eat O2), remove any wet items that do not hold heat (wet COTTON!!, it will kill you faster than you can get out of the cave). A large percentage of an extraction involves waiting for the right tools to end up in the correct position
Why do you need active heating, becuase an enviroment like this will suck the heat out of you faster than you can generate it. As for a battery powered heater, I suppose if you could get the battery life up there. But then you have to lug arround extra weight, and if you are doing that, Carbide is lighter... and has a nice yellow flame.
TastesLikeHerringFlavoredChicken
Re:Murphy (Score:2)
to -30 -15 deg C, in fact t-shirt, jacket and winter camo works quite well if walking."
Cotton sucks as a cold weather textile. Period.
Aside from that, the problem is not when you're walking or active, but rather when you're sitting in a wet foxhole for three days. Even during a mild North Carolina winter with the temperature still well above freezing, sitting wet and motionless will quickly induce hypothermia.
Additional design flaw... (Score:2)
Being as how steel is woven into the fabric, and being as how steel is a very good conductor of heat, it also means that it's a very good heat-disipator as well. When the battery goes out, not only will the heat be lost quick, but your body heat will also be lost quicker through the fabric of the coat.
Something like this would work nice as a vest or an inside liner, but I wouldn't want to have it inside the coat itself.
Words of wisdom from a northerner who loves the cold (and hasn't been getting enough of it this winter).
Re:Murphy (Score:4, Insightful)
the armymen are not going to be jogging, doing jumping jacks, etc.. they are going to be sitting in a ditch full of ice and snow, while a blizzard of snow and small bullet shaped pieces of lead fly overhead. you are not moving while you wait it out in a foxhole... so you dont generate heat and you get hypothermia even with 32" of polar fleece wrapped around you. All military footsoldiers have never fought a hard war. in reality, if you are fighting a ground war in a very cold region (because the enemy has been shooting every plane we have out of the sky, and the country is too far inland for the Iowa to lob Volkswagen Bug sized projectiles all over. so far we've fought countries that have no abilities, so in the event we actually have to fight a real ground war this technology would be a life saver. plus it would be a morale booster, which is more important that health during combat.. A warm soldier is a fighting soldier. I pray that we never again fight a war that is anything like the conditions were during WW-II,Vietmnam,Korea..as I am certian that our ground troops are not ready for such conditions.
How expensive is this, really? (Score:2)
Re:How expensive is this, really? (Score:1)
The thing that most people seem to be missing with this coat is the bulk and weight savings compared to traditional fleece/down coats. The Met 5 jacket is significantly less bulky than down jackets, and offers more warmth for the less weight than heavyweight fleece.
Re:How expensive is this, really? (Score:2)
Here's what I use, not for "extreme conditions," but for any cold and rainy day when I venture out to check the mail.
The phrase "you get what you pay for" certainly applies. I've had 'cheap' winter coats before, and this thing makes them look like a spring jacket! The ability to apply 114F to your chest area for 2½ hours could be a life saver... so if you take the risks (off-trail skiing, winter hiking, etc.), this is a trendy form of insurance. Not that I'm going to buy one, but I can understand the comfort it affords -- less layers, more freedom of movement, the ability to sound like a true geek when you say "Excuse me, I need to go plug in my jacket..."
It'll sure be interesting when they manage to carry information on those wires, instead of just current. (Yes, I know they're working on it!)
Re:How expensive is this, really? (Score:2)
Not just jackets! (Score:3, Informative)
I saw an announcement at MSNBC about the same thing [msnbc.com] yesterday. Interesting thing: They're not worried about it standing up to washing. The problem was making the heating filaments sturdy enough to withstand industrial weaving! Never thought about that...
Interesting to note that Lands' End [landsend.com] is going to be selling electric blankets based on this same technique. Toasty! (Unfortunately, it looks like they don't have them listed on their site yet.)
Malden Mills (the PolarTec manufacturer) has a bit on the stuff as well:
X-treme R&D (Score:5, Funny)
"The company even dropped one climber in a 20-foot crevasse and buried him in snow until he started shaking..."
Now that's what I call R&D. How will they test cooling textiles? By Dropping this poor guinea pig into a pot of hot water and increasing the temperature until he starts hallucinating?
RD: "Fred, turn on the cool suit!"
Fred: "Get the bugs out of my head! Get them out!"
Re:X-treme R&D (Score:1)
testing Black Diamond did for the Avalung.
Bury people entirely in snow with and
without the Avalung. Monitor oxygen levels
as they slowly suffocate. Dig them up
before oxygen levels become dangerously low.
quote from the article (Score:1)
>20-foot crevasse and buried him in snow until
>he started shaking, then had him flip on the
>jacket.
>"Soon afterwards he stopped shaking, and we
>realized this was a pretty cool project," said
If they didn't have him flip on the jacket,
he would have stopped shaking [a little longer]
afterwards as well.
Is it worth your life? (Score:2)
Consider: If this jacket prevents you from getting hypothermia and dying, was $500 too much to pay?
Re:Is it worth your life? (Score:1)
Re:Is it worth your life? (Score:1)
heh (Score:1)
Wow... another stupid idea... (Score:1, Insightful)
You're own body heat is all you need, given adequate insulation; without it, this isn't going to keep you alive, let alone comfy. The biggest problem in the arctic environment is keeping the cold out, which means keeping the wind and snow out. I've bundled up to be super-warm, using many layers of normal clothing and sweats and jackets, and I can tell you adding heat doesn't help, since all you end up doing is sweating. Sweat+30 below zero F before windchill = unhappy freezing person.
A set of decent insulated boots would be nice. If you stand on ice long enough, even in the best boots, your feet still get cold.
By the way, do you know how much power it takes to generate heat in this fashion? If they're going to exchange insulating mass for heat generation, it will be a marvel of inefficiency. If they're not lightening up on movement restricting (and heavy) insulation, what's the point of adding a powerpack/heating elements other than to waste gobs of taxpayer money?
The real problem is that you have to be bundled head-toe in that environment, and it makes movement tricky.
So how much will a set of 12 D cells last? Probably a few hours. (Or were they planning on including a 12.7V automotive/marine lead-acid battery?) When they run out and start to leak or burst, hope you have another set. As for me, I'll take the standard issue stuff any day, it's warm, though heavy and bulky, but it's warm, and you don't drown in a pool of your own sticky sweat.
Da p01ar b3ar
$500 is not bad... (Score:1)
Skiers will snatch these babies up, $500 is nothing compared to what a serious skier spends on equipment and lift passes every year (not to mention the $50,000 SUV to get there and the $150K for the ski condo...). I think that market alone is enough to make this technology take off, although I bet there will be many applications...
-Turbo
Side effects... (Score:2, Interesting)
Yes, but.. (Score:1)
What the Butt Naked Brigade actually ordered was a warmer for their --
Finally... (Score:2, Funny)
Finally I can stop using methane to heat up my pants.
Re:Finally... (Score:2)
haha, never thought I would have the term hot grits in a post.
When they extend their line (Score:2)
Mmmmmm... toasty warm.
Re:When they extend their line (Score:2)
Nothing new for motorcyclists (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Nothing new for motorcyclists (Score:2)
I haven't tried it, but I imagine that a full load like that would seriously tax the charging system:)
Re:Nothing new for motorcyclists (Score:2)
I wasn't saying that *A* heated vest would cause problems. I was saying that two heated suits (pants, vest/jacket, and gloves) plus heated grips, ABS, CD Player, cruise, fuel injection, running lights, radar detector, and GPS together might cause a problem.
Also, check out what's going on with cars. No longer are those 12v systems enough. Many are trying to move towards a 42v (?) system that can handle all of the toys on modern cars.
Integrate it with laptops. (Score:3, Funny)
Plus it plays DVD's, so in all it's pretty much like snuggling up in front of the fire and watching a movie
If they could one day *use* the heat that these sorts of devices put out, instead of trying hard to reduce it, things might become a little more efficient
Bah... (Score:2)
...I haven't worn a jacket for several years now. Of course, I live in Northern VA, near Washington DC which doesn't really qualify as the frigid north. This winter has been rather warm, but I didn't wear a jacket last year when we had a good solid month of cold in December (ice on the canal was thick enough to skate). How do I do it?
Well, first of all, I find that I just don't spend that much time walking from the car to the inside. If you get that cold walking outside for a few minutes, you are a wimp. There is simply no other way to put it.
Well you say, what about when you are doing non-wimpy things like hiking along the banks of the semi-frozen Potomac?
In situations like that, I layer. Sometimes as much as 5 or 6 layers. More often than not, I end up pealing them off as the physical activity causes body temp to increase. In an extreme situation (e.g., hiking up the Blue Ridge) body temperature increases to the point where I have gone shirtless in 20 degree weather just for the thrill of it. You have to be doing heavy aerobic climbing for that to be comfortable though. No, I'm not overweight either. It is essential to pack several T-shirts and change the innermost layer if you are going to rest during such an outing. Otherwise the moisture can really get to you.
My only special equipment for dealing with the cold is a warm cotton hat to cover my ears, and gloves. That takes care of most of the body heat loss.
I can see how something like that jacket would be useful in Minessota, especially if you did a lot of driving and were concerned about getting stranded in the middle of a blizzard.
For me though, I've found that most special Winter clothing is something I can do without. More Winters like this one, and I may not even have to endure much discomfort to save a few bucks.
Re:Bah... (Score:2)
1) Inexpensive electric clothing for motorcyclists have been around for many, many years. It's easy to do when you're riding on top of a big, heavy, high-current battery.
2) You might consider letting HTML word wrap your posts for you. It looks better and makes them easier to read.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Heated gloves, I might go for though. (Score:2)
Again, HG do some fantastic non electric 3 finger gloves that are waterproof and warm in all but the coldest freezing fog.
I don't work for Hein Gericke BTW, just use some of their products.
Re:Heated gloves, I might go for though. (Score:2)
I've got heated grips, heated seat (came with bike, not by choice) and wife wears a heated vest. And we also have decent riding gear otherwise. But some people have different abilities to generate heat and cope with the loss of it. So some people need active heating.
Here's a joke older than I:
Why do the British like warm beer?
Lucas also makes refrigerators.
Keep the shiny side up.
Misread... (Score:2)
Power It With A Fuel Cell (Score:2, Informative)
Some form of fuel cell would be just the ticket:
Laptop Methanol Fuel Cells Promised This Week [slashdot.org]
It should be easy to convince the propane-toting crowd that a fuel cell is a sensible way to supply heat to a jacket.
And you'd never again have to face that sinking feeling, high on an alpine ridge, that what you thought was a jacket battery was actually the battery you used to complete that chunk of code during the flight out...
I doubt that the USMC, (Score:2)
God bless Western Civilization (minus the French, Germans, Spanish, Italians, and other former fascists).
Mandatory movie reference (Score:2)
Marty McFly's jacket
Overclock it? (Score:2, Funny)
Alternative solution (Score:2)
microcapsules of wax. The wax melts at room
temperature and can store quite a bit of energy.
When it's cold outside, the wax slowly releases
the heat to the body.
I'm not sure whether this jacket is on the market.
He was jobbing for a sports fashion producer when
he got it (Adidas?).
Price (Score:2)
$500 seems like a reasonable price for a new product like that and I'm sure price will come down after a while.
Self-Toasting Bread (Score:2)
This article [slashdot.org] over on FoodDot reports that researchers at Nutriglomerate have invented bread that toasts itself. A network of conductive thermal protein monofibers woven through the bread during baking draws power from an organic battery in the center of each slice. When the toast is done the battery's own heat converts it to a pat of butter. Bon apetit!
New slashdot category (Score:2)
I would like to list news that is related to Military improvments, but so would the Bad Guys [tm]
The other half of the story (Score:2)
Re:$500 is not awful (Score:2)
Re:$500 is not awful (Score:2)
I remember paying around CA$1000 for a decent parka around 1979. Of course, that, normal clothing and thermal underwear were good to around -50C. Never been out in anything colder than around -44C, though.
Re:$500 is not awful (Score:2)
Re:$500 is not awful (Score:1)
Re:$500 is not awful (Score:3, Informative)
Nothing but highest recommendations. It appears it will last a lifetime. I have had this suit for this winter season and the quality appears to exceed BMW's heated vest which I have abused for two years without fail. After tearing up a widder in less than a month and fixing it several times until it could be used no more, I would go with nothing else besides BMW or Gerbing. And the heat output is incredible. Most importantly I know it will not fail on long trips. In the cold weather on a motorcycle in the middle of nowhere, quality is the difference between life and death.
My suit has electric heated socks (which are uncomfortable by themselves,) the two piece suit which can be comfortably worn over street clothes, electric gloves (never leave home without them,) and a the collar in the jacket has extra heating and sticks inside the helmet to keep my sinuses warm. It works and is worth the investment if you like the snow.
Re:$500 is not awful (Score:2)
So your leather Jacket would be about $1500.00 and a good high altitude climbers jacket about $3000.00
which would be stupid to buy, get the cheap vest and wear it under everything. Voila every jacket I own is now self heating.
Like this? (Score:2)
Re:A few things : (Score:2)
Re:Back to the Future (Score:2)
You forgot the auto-adjust feature... can't leave that one out.
This is interesting, though. What if clothes do get electronic features integrated into them in the future? Will it really be for the better? Nowdays you can put on a wooly jumper and feel a natural warmth, but to me the idea of a completely synthetic piece of clothing which relies on electronic heating just seems to have something lacking. It's not natural. I don't want to feel like I'm wearing a computer (despite my obsession with computers and electronics).
Re:Old-hat - try carbon fibre weaves (Score:2)
The wired jacket would be good for spectators though - but maybe a little expensive.
Re:Source of heat? (Score:2)
Get a decent bike jacket (Score:2)
The Hein Gericke Voyager II jacket is a good example, though, like all sequels, not as good as the original Voyager I.
Gloves are a bigger issue. HG Pathan three finger gloves are fantastic for all but below zero temperatures, but I might be persuaded to use electric gloves if they were simple to use.