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Sicilian Suspension Bridge to Go Ahead 392

Posted by michael from the bigger-is-better dept.
SpanningTheGap writes "According to the BBC, Italy plans on building a suspension bridge connecting the Italian mainland with the island of Sicily. The bridge will be five kilometers long and its central span will be over three kilometers long, easily breaking the old record length for a suspension bridge. The artist's conception image of the monster is a sight to see. Another article with more info can be found here." There's a website with assorted technical info about the design.
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Sicilian Suspension Bridge to Go Ahead More

Sicilian Suspension Bridge to Go Ahead

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  • This Bridge of Ours (Score:3, Funny)

    by gspeare ( 470147 ) <geoff AT shalott DOT com> on Friday June 07, 2002 @09:22AM (#3659326) Journal
    Wow, I hadn't realized that they were so low on places to dump bodies that they needed a bridge to drop them off of...

  • have to wonder (Score:5, Insightful)

    by JeanBaptiste ( 537955 ) on Friday June 07, 2002 @09:23AM (#3659330)
    how this will affect the culture of both areas. I know throughout history that small gap of water served as enough of a barrier to make sicily a distinct separate culture, is this bridge an end to that? or is this already the case due to other transportation?

    • have to wonder how this will affect the culture of both areas.


      Well, Scotland and England are joined by land but still have their own cultures. At times the natives hate each other (like whenever England play football, most of Scotland supports the other team, no matter who it is).

    • Sometimes its nice to have pockets of the world that are not easily accessible. That way they maintain their distinct cultural nuances and avoid societal homogenization.

      A good example is the hawaiian island of Kaua'i.
      There have been some comical failed attempts to make the main highway (Kuhio Hwy, but it changes names) go all the way around the island (I think the earth moving machines are still stuck in the swamps to this day).
      Since it never happened there are still out of the way places. Never mind that it isn't a huge gap, and that driving from one extreme corner of the island to the other takes less time than it does to drive from New York to D.C. (2 hours as compared to 4-5 (depends on how fast you drive!))
      that little element of inaccesibility and that lack of convenience tends to preserve the outer corners.

      But I don't think there will be any threat to sicilian culture. With the way italians drive, the mere threat of an accident on that bridge will stop most people in there tracks.

      -P.S.- don't bug me on the italian digs. I'm full blooded and yes I've been there.

  • Chunnel (Score:4, Interesting)

    by hagardtroll ( 562208 ) on Friday June 07, 2002 @09:24AM (#3659336) Journal
    If this is so controverial, Why don't they just build a chunnel instead?

    Seemed to work for the English Channel.

    • Re:Chunnel (Score:5, Informative)

      by Fantanicity ( 583135 ) on Friday June 07, 2002 @09:27AM (#3659363) Journal
      The english channel is more stable than the Med. See 20 Years of Seismicity in the Mediterranean - 1977 - 1997 USGS [seismo-watch.com]

    • Re:Chunnel (Score:3, Informative)

      by bunyip ( 17018 )
      Not sure, it's not like the water is too deep:

      http://www.ifm.uni-hamburg.de/~wwwrs/publication s/ rubino/fig8.html

      Maybe it's the rock. The Chunnel was bored through chalk.

      Also, the Chunnel is a train tunnel, with cars and trucks put in large wagons to take them through. Cars and trucks driving through a long tunnel are too fire prone (remember the tunnel under Mt. Blanc?).

      Any civil engineers out there have a good explanation

    • Re:Chunnel (Score:2, Informative)

      by arri ( 95615 )
      Simple: it is a seismic area (terrible earthquake in Messina in 1901 inclusive of tsunami) with the fault ine running right between Sicily and the mainland. The currents are particularly strong which make a "suspended tunnel" (one of the original designs) also impossible. Apparently the only design with a sporting chance to work is a suspension bridge.

    • Since the Channel Tunnel was 31 miles long, it seems a suspension bridge was not really a valid option.

      I imagine a tunnel is a lot more expensive to construct than a bridge, so it makes sense that if a bridge is a viable option, then that is the one the project engineers should take.

  • The bridge is going to be 5 km long. How many kilometers will they be paying for? 10? 15 km? I take that the EU will contribute so one never know about the costs.
  • I was in Sicily not long ago and this seemed to be the controvertial issue. However, I was under the impression that a suspension bridge this long couldnt be built, being over 1km longer then the current longest span. What technology are they using that even makes this possible? Must have some bitchin ass suspension cables :-P
    • Maybe Kevlar - Much lighter than steel, and stronger.

      But expensive...
      • Kevlar and ultraviolet light do not get along very well.
  • This seems to me to be one of the next modern wonders of the word. I think it'll rank up there with the artifical island in Japan that houses the new airport and the twin towers in Malaysia..

    Besides that, I wonder how many cars a day it'll hold, and how bad it'll be if some of the crazy Italian drivers get into a good sized accident. If you every been to Rome, you know what I'm talking about.
    • and how bad it'll be if some of the crazy Italian drivers get into a good sized accident. If you every been to Rome, you know what I'm talking about.

      Their driving sure does appear crazy to Americans--I should know, having lived in Italy. I saw one accident in five months. They drive faster and more agressively than Americans, but they also drive more competently. Driving is a right in America, but a privilege in Europe. Europeans who can not drive competently are not given licenses.

      That said, I think this bridge will face more danger from seismic and terrorist [le rosse, etc...] activity than commuters.

      • Mentioning something like Brigate Rosse is a blow below the belt. What a load of FUD. You should be ashamed of yourself.

        Sorry, but I had to say it.

        I personaly think that it will generate an economic boom in the region, which was very much needed indeed.
      • Every (American) state driving manual I've ever seen states explicitly: Driving is a privilege, not a right. That doesn't seem to make the bad drivers any better, though.

        That being said, not all American drivers are as bad as you say. They span a continuum, from Michigan (superb) to New Mexico (horrid).

        • Re:Huge engineering feat.. (Score:4, Interesting)

          by Bios_Hakr ( 68586 ) <xptical.gmail@com> on Friday June 07, 2002 @10:29AM (#3659797)
          In America, you study a book and take a written exam and a driving test to get a license. In Italy, you attend a year of driving school where you learn a LOT about cars and how to drive them. The school costs about $2000 which can be overwhelming when you consider the avreage Italian makes less than $25000/year, and pays about 35% income tax in addition to a 20% sales tax on all consumer items.

          As a 25yo American in Italy, I knew a lot of people my age who were not able to afford a car, much less a license. On top of that, gas was about $4/gallon, maybe more. In America, driving is really a right, even if the book referes to it as a privelege.

          Another good thing in Italy is that the older population does not drive. This gets rid of a good percentage of the people who should not be on the road in the first place.
          • Another good thing in Italy is that the older population does not drive. This gets rid of a good percentage of the people who should not be on the road in the first place.

            Really? Ever driven the milan ring road at rush hour? 110 MILES per hour plus in the outside lane.
      • "Driving is a right in America, but a privilege in Europe. Europeans who can not drive competently are not given licenses."

        I live in Canada and every time I go to the USA I am shocked at the driving. This is mainly in New York and Michigan states. I see more stomach-churning driving there in a day than I do in a decade in Canada. This is not exaggeration. And the rudeness ... oh the rudeness of those drivers. It makes my blood boil.

        • I live in Canada and every time I go to the USA I am shocked at the driving. This is mainly in New York and Michigan states. I see more stomach-churning driving there in a day than I do in a decade in Canada.

          I don't doubt it. I grew up in Indianapolis, and I now live in Columbus, Ohio and on every trip I've ever made towards the east coast (Philadelphia, NYC, Boston) the driving has been frighteningly bad. They also tend to be incredibly rude too. Of course, I think that most people in the midwest can't drive to save their lives either...
      • Driving is a right in America, but a privilege in Europe.


        Every time I go to traffic school for speeding here in CA, they always remind us that driving in America is a privilege, not a right. We have to be licensed for it, and the privilege can be taken away if we disobey laws.

    • according to the second article here [sicilianculture.com]:

      Current plans call for the bridge to carry eight traffic lanes, four service lanes and two rail lines. It will have a capacity of about 100,000 cars and trucks and 200 trains a day.

      The real concern might be: What happens during a bad derailing?

  • Built between 1831 and 1864...

    http://www.bristol-city.gov.uk/ImageLibraryAppli ca tion/image_library.html?location_id=5

  • Gibraltar Bridge (Score:5, Interesting)

    by CaseyB ( 1105 ) on Friday June 07, 2002 @09:27AM (#3659364)
    I seriously doubt that it'll ever be built, but the Gibraltar Bridge [discovery.com] is a fascinating concept nonetheless.

    9 *miles* long, with 3 towers, each almost twice the height of the CN Tower. Crazy!

    • Even better is the revolutionary hybrid cable-stayed/suspension design of the Gibralter bridge. They should try that in Italy instead of the boring plain jane suspension bridge they are planning now.

    • Re:Gibraltar Bridge (Score:3, Insightful)

      by brad3378 ( 155304 )
      &gt I seriously doubt that it'll ever be built, but the Gibraltar Bridge [discovery.com] is a fascinating concept nonetheless.
      9 *miles* long, with 3 towers, each almost twice the height of the CN Tower. Crazy!

      If the Gibralter Bridge is ever built, I predict it to be an incredible boost to the economies of both Europe and Africa. Industry in Europe could gain by getting cheap labor in Africa, while nations in Africa will receive heavy investments - Improving their infrastructure. Surely it would be a Win-Win situation for both Africa and Europe.

      Like the Tunnel connecting France and Great Brittain, I think it is likely bridges like these would only be feasible if high speed railways are used. High speed railways would allow more traffic and therefore higher revenues to help offset the costs. Unfortunately, I don't think Railways at the southern Regions of the Italian Mainland are currently up to the task. As Americans, we might fail to realize that railways are a primary mode of transportation in most of Europe. Although Expressways do exist, Many people choose to not drive at all because train rides are cheap yet convienient.

      It is my belief that the Sicilian Bridge will require much greater investments than the bridge itself to become sucessful. Traffic is what pays for gigantic projects like this, and without high speed railways and expressways it may be difficult.

      • If the Gibralter Bridge is ever built, I predict it to be an incredible boost to the economies of both Europe and Africa.

        Not to mention an instant target for Islamic and White Supremacist terrorists.

      • ...incredible boost to the economies of both Europe and Africa. Industry in Europe could gain by getting cheap labor in Africa, while nations in Africa will receive heavy investments - Improving their infrastructure.

        Well, there are already hundreds of thousands of immigrant moroccan workers in Spain. They travel by ferries, visit their families over weekends and so on (actually situation is similar to mexican immigration situation in southern US states). But the biggest is hardly the transportation; bridge would do nothing for real barriers for free flow of labour (legal barriers as labor unions in Europe are afraid of cheap labour, governments worried about social problems etc etc)

        And as to investments to Africa, money need not be transported via bridges... lack of investments is not really caused by missing road infrastructure between Europe and Africa but by total lack of interest. Africa is about the worst place to invest, and has been for past couple of decades. Sad but true. :-/

        In short, even though bridge would have its uses it's unlikely it would have huge impacts on any nearby economies.

      • If the Gibralter Bridge is ever built, I predict it to be an incredible boost to the economies of both Europe and Africa. Industry in Europe could gain by getting cheap labor in Africa, while nations in Africa will receive heavy investments - Improving their infrastructure. Surely it would be a Win-Win situation for both Africa and Europe.

        Perhaps if Carthago had triumphed over Rome it would have been the other way around...
  • Or how about that PYRAmatrix stuff from the other day? I don't understand why they are using silican.
  • A link between Sicily and mainland has been a topic of discussion for at least fifty years: a bridge, or also an underwater tunnel, but nothing has been ever really done.

    There are a lot of reasons for this: it would be *huge*, and an environmental monster. It would change the two sides' life in unpredictable ways but maybe business won't increase a lot and it won't increase the "isolation" of Sicily, which is not only generated by geography.

    Two more reasons: area is very very seismic (that stopped any underwater idea) and there is that little Sicilian organization, the mafia (yep, the original one), which is looking forward to jump on the cashpiles generated by the contracts - which will be probably be awarded in a "special" way because the project is "special"...

    Last but not least, this Italian government is always keen to boots high-profile projects (with or without the necessary funding) and a little less keen to work on more urgent stuff, but maybe I'm biased on this last reason...
  • Seems like a good plan, until you look at disaster scenarios. What happens to this immensly expensive engineering feat if something does happen?

    I think in this situation, a 'chunnel' or something like it would make more sense, not just because it would be more durable, but because a big bridge like this will disrupt shipping lanes during construction, and possibly dangerous to ships after it is completed.

    Not to mention it would be a target for terrorists faster than you can say "strategery".

    • Re:Lucifer's Hammer (Score:5, Informative)

      by ocbwilg ( 259828 ) on Friday June 07, 2002 @10:07AM (#3659640)
      think in this situation, a 'chunnel' or something like it would make more sense, not just because it would be more durable,

      Except during times of high seismic activity, for which the area is known. The articles also stated that Sicily drifts northwards about 3 feet per century, and shifting that is likely much easier for a suspension bridge to cope with than a tunnel.

      but because a big bridge like this will disrupt shipping lanes during construction,

      If there are no pylons in the water as planned, disruption during construction should be minimal.

      and possibly dangerous to ships after it is completed.

      The articles stated that the bridge will be some 230+ feet above sea level which allows enough clearance for US aircraft carriers. That should leave plenty of room for cargo ships.

  • Build It! (Score:2, Interesting)

    by grokBoy ( 582119 )
    "But Italy's Green Party said it was ridiculous to spend such astronomic sums on the bridge when many Sicilians remained without a proper water supply and the island's roads are badly in need of modernisation."

    Well, call me idealistic, but surely the building of the bridge itself will bring jobs to the area in the short term, and allow greater communication/commuting possibilities for Sicilian residents when completed?

    This, therefore, will bring in wealth to the area - and hopefully the improvements that are needed will follow suit. However, the decision to fund this project through the use of tolls may impact on its success, at least from the Sicilian side.

  • Bad perspective (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Borodog ( 210706 )
    Anyone else notice that the "artists conception" photo is impossible? Look at the support tower on the right. The perspective clearly shows you are looking at the interior side (i.e. the water side) of the support tower. Yet the span dwindles into the distance to the far tower. Bzzzzt. Wrong.

    This does not bode well for their engineers, if they failed to notice a little thing like a crooked support tower . . .

    • Re:Bad perspective (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Fantanicity ( 583135 ) on Friday June 07, 2002 @09:43AM (#3659482) Journal
      This does not bode well for their engineers

      I doubt the Italians are stupid enough to hire the BBC's photoshop monkey as their chief engineer.

    • Fish Eye Lens (Score:4, Insightful)

      by hotsauce ( 514237 ) on Friday June 07, 2002 @10:19AM (#3659730)
      *Sigh* Never seen a photo from a fish eye lens? That effect actually makes the bridge even more impressive.
    • Heck, it could be some whacked-out crazy new design, where the towers on each end aren't perpendicular to the roadway. *shrug*

      It did look odd to me when I first saw it though, and this explains what it was.

    • Any engineer worth his salt can design a brige to look like a single Artist drawing. Now granted it is silly to put a support tower at an angle so that someone standing on one spot on the shore can see both the inside of a far support tower, and the bridge dwindling off into the distance, and it will probably look odd from all other angles. Still if that particular view is the more important than all others, I can design a bridge that will be both safe, and look like that view.

      Now if there were two drawings that both were really odd like that, then I will agree that it can't be done. I think this can be done though. Just remember it will cost extra money.

    • As the text states this is a 180 degree fish-eye lens view. There are very few clues, but I suspect the rock blocks in the foreground are in fact in a straight line and not a curve like they look.

      I suspect the bridge from that POV would be absolutely enormous and any normal camera lens would show only a small piece of it.

  • The bridge to Prince Edward Island [tourcanada.com] in Canada is 13km. Over twice the distance.
  • Once I realized the article read Sicilian and not Silicon (a silicon bridge?) I debated reading the article...Then I read this..
    The latest estimate is $4.5 billion, but interest payments could drive this figure up considerably.

    The government plans to get private investment to cover more than half the total cost in exchange for toll fees.

    That's one large private investment. Who's got that kinda money to throw around, the US?

  • "Silicon Suspension Bridge"?

    Largest wafer in the world?

  • Timing (Score:2, Funny)

    by KingKire64 ( 321470 )
    I wonder if pizza delivery times will be improved by this bridge?
  • Funny how the mind works, at first glance I thought I read Silicon Bridge (like Silicon Waffers, etc). Not until I clciked-thru to the article did I finally realize is was Sicilian, as in the island off Italy. Builting a bridge out of Silicon would be something to read about. Oh well....


  • I always have admiration towards the Sicillians.

    They're Italians but they are NOT part of italy.

    They speak Italians, but they are NOT as lazy and as inept as the average Italians.

    That is why Sicillians have Mafia, and Italians can only "mama mia" over it.

    No, I am not in love with the violence, what I like about Mafia is that they have GUTS, which the Italians can never find within themselves.

    And now comes the bridge, the bridge that will make Sicilly a part of Italy.

    Doom will the unique tradition of Sicilly. And as far as Mafia goes, they will become as complacent as the Italian government.

    Sigh !

  • Now it will be much easier to dispose of bodies! (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Once the Sicilian have fitted their "friends" with cement overshoes, they'll be able to to throw these friends into the ocean from speeding Cadillacs! Think of the time it will save, not having to search for an abandoned wharf or lake. Surely this bridge will revolutionize Italy's crime industry, which accounts for 65% of the country's GDP. (The other 35% is a combination of spaghetti sauce and cheap Renaissance merchandise.) Italian crime also accounts for about 5% of the US GDP. Hooray for mobsters!

    -- The_Messenger

  • Re:Sicilian Suspension Bridge... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by rmohr02 ( 208447 ) <mohr.42@DALIosu.edu minus painter> on Friday June 07, 2002 @09:42AM (#3659474)
    The bridge will be five kilometres long and its central span - supported by four steel cables each nearly a metre-and-a-half in diameter - will measure over three kilometres.
    A meter (I'm American--that's how we spell it) and a half wide?!?!? How do they make steel cables like that, or, for that matter, get them to bend at all?
    • Take a bunch of strands and wrap them together.
    • Notice that it's a cable 1.5 meters across and one kilometer long. So effectively the same ratio as a 1 meter long and 1.5 mm wide rope. It will bend just well.

    • Re:Sicilian Suspension Bridge... (Score:4, Funny)

      by poot_rootbeer ( 188613 ) on Friday June 07, 2002 @12:33PM (#3660605)
      A meter (I'm American--that's how we spell it)

      Funny -- I'm an American too, and I spell it Y-A-R-D...

  • Longest span, not longest bridge (Score:5, Informative)

    by Mr.Phil ( 128836 ) on Friday June 07, 2002 @09:45AM (#3659496)
    This new bridge will be the longest span between towers, but not the longest suspension bridge. Mackinac Bridge, connecting Michigan's Upper and Lower Peninsulas, is five-miles long, including approaches, and is the world's longest suspension bridge between cable anchorages.

    http://www.mackinacbridge.org/

    I've been over it on days that where so windy there was a police escort across and you had to turn the car wheel at the expansion joints to stay in your lane. This was shortly after the lady in the Yugo blew over the side of the bridge in a wind storm.
    • Steinman was the chief designer of the Mackinac Bridge, and the Messina Straits bridge was his dream. Unfortunately he died (long) before it became feasible either technically or politically.

      I gather that the Mackinac Bridge, the Confederation Bridge in PEI, and maybe some others have the occasional person who shows up and then is too nervous to drive across. So a toll booth attendant drives them over.

      - adam

  • ...until I won't see it built and working, and I will hear a committee of engineers stating that it's safe, I won't believe it. And the committee must be independent from any sort of government, expecially the Italian one.

    Sorry, but being an Italian makes me quite used to that bloated political stuff... plus, for what I've heard [nothing official, I'm asking what do you engineers think about it], it will be built using outdated techniques. Could it be true?

    Anyway, I hope it won't just suck the (little) Italian government money, as so many of those projects did for the last 50 years (corruption, et cetera).

  • Kobe bridge (Score:5, Interesting)

    by --daz-- ( 139799 ) on Friday June 07, 2002 @09:46AM (#3659503)
    I saw a documentary on bridges on the History channel and they were talking about the current #1 bridge (in Kobe, Japan) and they said that it's so long, that the main towards that hold the suspension cables are not parallel. The tops point out, away from each other significantly DUE TO THE CURVATURE OF THE EARTH! Sweet.

    Man, this Sicillian bridge will curve even more than that!
  • The powers that be are talking about a new super-bridge here in St. Louis (Missouri, USA, central North America for you furriners). Problem is they have pre-decided that it will be a cable-stayed design: just like the last 3 Mississippi bridges.

    Now, the first few cable-stayed bridges were kind of neat, but at this point they are starting to look all alike and quite boring. Can't we have any more real suspension bridges, like the Brooklyn Bridge? How about a cantilever like the Firth of Forth? Architecturally that would fit in well with St. Louis.

    But NO - everything has to be cable-stayed these days it seems.

    sPh

  • I read the headline as "Silicon Suspension Bridge to Go Ahead." And I thought, "a bridge out of silicon? That doesn't make sense."
  • But Italy's Green Party said it was ridiculous to spend such astronomic sums on the bridge when many Sicilians remained without a proper water supply and the island's roads are badly in need of modernisation. Ok.. I can MAYBE see the water supply issue, but ROADS? Come on. It seems like there isn't much traffic NOW going to Sicily, why would they need to spend money on making nice roads?

    Now, if the bridge is built, Sicily could easily attract weekend tourism, would would bring in more money, that would pay for the new roads.

    They'd also need the clean water..

  • WHAT, is your name?

    Sir Gallihad of Camelot

    WHAT, is your quest?

    To seek the secret Mafia headquarters

    WHAT, is the overall weight of the bridges galvanized steel wires?

    I don't know that... nooooooooooo.....
  • Has always been the Mackinack Bridge spanning the Upper and Lower Peninsulas of Michigan. We used to drive this way all the time to go to Southern Ontario (from the North, eh?) The suspension part on the bridge has steel grating in the middle two lanes - it's pretty cool to look straight down at the water. They frequently close this bridge during poor weather. I think about 10-15 years ago, a small car (Yugo?) actually blew off the bridge during high winds.

    www.fishweb.com/maps/cheboygan/mackinawcity/brid ge

    8 km total length. Cool.

  • What about the Wayne Newton bridge? (Score:3, Funny)

    by gelfling ( 6534 ) on Friday June 07, 2002 @10:19AM (#3659727) Homepage Journal
    Yeah you know, the one they'll build in 2031 to connect The Las Vegas Islands to the Arizonian mainland?

  • Another interesting new bridge (Score:3, Interesting)

    by sehryan ( 412731 ) on Friday June 07, 2002 @10:24AM (#3659760)
    The longest suspension brigde in the US, and what looks to be the thrid longest span in the world (4th if you count this new italian bridge) is currently being built in Charleston, SC. The span will be 1546ft, with the total bridge coming in at about 2.5mi. Check out some info on it here [charleston.net].

  • Security thoughts (Score:2, Interesting)

    by tm2b ( 42473 )
    I dunno, it seems like large engineering projects like this present an easy target for terrorists.

    Not that this should deter us from undertaking such project, just that security concerns should help dictate their design. The chunnel, for example, is already pretty well protected from external attack by the rock it was built into. Suspension bridges are much more difficult to guard.

    Just a thought.
  • Have you seen the confederation bridge in Canada?

    It's 13Km long...

    Here is the website:

    http://www.confederationbridge.com/
    • The confederation bridge isn't a suspension bridge. Thats why this is impressive. Suspension bridges typically have a much shorter span. You can't really compare the two. There is a bridge which is by no means spectacular in the San Francisco Bay area (the San Mateo Bridge) which is about 10 miles long, so 13Km isn't really all that long.

  • The near tower is angled all wrong, you see the wrong side of it. I guess whoever drew that didn't know much about perspective.

    - adam

  • But Italy's Green Party said it was ridiculous to spend such astronomic sums on the bridge when many Sicilians remained without a proper water supply and the island's roads are badly in need of modernisation.

    A project like this creates lots of jobs and business opportunities, at least if it is managed at all reasonably (if most of it is lost to corruption, the local economy won't benefit).

    The design itself seems iffy, however: it seems unnecessarily susceptible to disaster and attack. Rather than building a single, big bridge, a series of islands (possibly floating) might be a better choice.

  • Build your own damn bridge! (Score:3, Informative)

    by teamhasnoi ( 554944 ) <teamhasnoi@yahoA ... inus threevowels> on Friday June 07, 2002 @03:03PM (#3661734) Journal
    Here [chroniclogic.com] is possibly the home of the coolest game ever. And here, [bridgebuilder-game.com] is it's friend.

    Now all you, "I can build it for half that", and "Supension? They should make a jump..." people can put your money where your mouth is. So there.

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