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New Sony VAIO Laptop w/ 16.1" Screen 390

Posted by CmdrTaco from the now-thats-lustworthy dept.
calc writes "Sony Japan has announced a new VAIO laptop that comes with a DVD-R/RW CD-R/RW drive along with a Radeon 7500 Mobility and 16.1" UXGA LCD." The spacebar on my thinkpad has been dying... maybe its time for a change. Sony? You listening? *grin*
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New Sony VAIO Laptop w/ 16.1" Screen More

New Sony VAIO Laptop w/ 16.1" Screen

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  • DVD-RW? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Prizm ( 52977 ) on Friday July 12, 2002 @01:32PM (#3872305)
    I wonder who they're targetting with the inclusion of a DVD-RW. Perhaps they're working toward the blurring of the lines between desktop and laptop. A 16.1 inch screen and a DVD-R/W is certainly a good start in doing so.

    • Re:DVD-RW? (Score:3, Funny)

      by DeltaSigma ( 583342 )
      But when thinking about the Radeon 7500 included (yeah sure, mobile version means quake3 at 40 FPS, but hey, it's still quake), I'm lent to believe that they're merely continuing their push to make laptops entertainment centers. To do this they must, of course, blur the line between laptop and desktop but let us remember that it's entertainment, not power, which the Vaio laptop series professes is their strong point. I can't be the only one that remembers the man going to the airport and dropping his television, stereo, etc onto the x-ray conveyor belt and picking up a Vaio on the other side. Of course, these days we wouldn't have any of that. The man would be detained and held for questioning until the point at which the FBI arrived to verify that the electronic devices weren't full of C-4, or perhaps a butter-knives.

    • Re:DVD-RW? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by NanoGator ( 522640 )
      Us 3D Users (Lightwave, 3DSMax, Maya, etc...) have high hopes that one day we'll be able to do our work on laptops. Up until about a year or two ago, it was a high cost/low benefit tradeoff. You had to spend roughly $3,000 to get a $1,500 machine, and you had limitations that were pretty sucky. (I.e. lack of CDR, low RAM, small/slow hard drive, no 3D acelleration to speak of...)

      That has changed recently. Now they come with pretty decent 3D Accelleration, CD/DVD writables, respectable amounts of RAM, hard drives are big but still slow, and you can run at really high resolutions like 1600 by 1200. All this for round about $2,500. It's still a little high, but I'm due for an upgrade soon.

      There's still life to my current machine, but I am going to get a new laptop to replace my desktop in the next year or so. Until this year, I felt like that was a pipe dream. I'm very excited about what's coming down the road. The nice thing is, I'm not going to need to go shopping for an LCD Screen!

  • And the news is? (Score:4, Funny)

    by nigelo ( 30096 ) on Friday July 12, 2002 @01:33PM (#3872314)
    Reduced to posting advertisements now?

  • Is there a point to this? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Your_Mom ( 94238 ) <slashdot@@@innismir...net> on Friday July 12, 2002 @01:34PM (#3872317) Homepage
    16.1"? Why? Whats the point? Aren't laptops supposed to be /portable/? The last thing I want is to carry around a 16.1" diagonal behemoth, I'd much rather keep my 12.1" P2 300, which I can easily fit in my backpack.
    • Like the first person who replied to this, I too think this is silly. Portability is the only reason to get a laptop. I just recently also got a dell inspiron with the 15 inch screen (it was on a deal!) but now I regret the increased weight (but the screen is pretty!). My girlfriend now wants a laptop and i am recommending the small-screen ibook. I mean, a laptop should be light enough to sit in your lap without losing blood flow to your feet! 16 inch LCDs on laptops kind of strikes me a counterintuitive...

      ----rhad

      • I have a new Inspiron with the 15" screen too, and it is heavier than I'd like.

        But I was on a budget, and my money could buy more computer if I let it be heavy... besides, I needed something with quite a bit of power, I'll be using it to prototype simulations and to do analysis of data.

        Doug
    • A larger screen may make a laptop a bit more cumbersome, but it is still much more portable than a desktop machine. If you don't like a machine because it is bigger, don't buy it, but there isn't any sense in calling a bigger laptop pointless.

    • Re:Is there a point to this? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by furiousgeorge ( 30912 ) on Friday July 12, 2002 @02:08PM (#3872620)
      If you don't like it, then quit yer bitching and move on.

      I guess I'm one of the morons who would consider buying this. Why? Because I want a small, simple computer that I can move around easily if I need to.

      Right now i have a 14" Dell notebook. LOVE IT. Use it on the kitchen table, use it on the coffee table, put it on my lap when i'm in bed, etc etc. One self contained little unit that folds in half to close and to move it all i need to do is plug it in. What do you do with your desktop? You go to where the computer is. What do i do? I just put the computer where I want it and use it. Wireless networking. Life is sweet :)

      Now lets look at the desktop example. Monitor. Mouse. Keyboard. Speakers. Computer Box (which are ALL wayyyyy too big. I don't need expandability - I don't need 5 PCI cards. I need the ability to add memory - period. When the graphics are out of date I'll replace the whole thing. With hard drives already topping 160GB, the last thing i need is 4 drive bays.). Plus millions and millions of cables.

      The modern PC is really a silly, badly designed, convoluted tech nightmare.

      This is the first laptop i've ever owned, and I don't see myself buying a real desktop system ever again. This is way too convenient.

      If i was looking for something VERY portable - then yeah 16" is a bit of overkill... but there are lots of options out there. What I want is something simple, convenient that CAN be portable if I need it to be. This fits the bill perfectly.
      • The convenience of mobility is great. My wife has an Inspiron 8000 with a huge display, and in most respects it's a complete desktop replacement--except for the keyboard. I have yet to see a laptop keyboard that's any good for coding for extended periods. The cursor and Home/End/Insert/Delete keys are always compromised in size and especially position and arrangement. The Dells for example place the Ins/Del cluster at the top right, well out of easy reach, and they're also half size, seriously increasing the probability of hitting the wrong key. I love using my wife's Dell for most things, but when it comes to editing text, I pass.

    • Re:Is there a point to this? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Stoutlimb ( 143245 ) on Friday July 12, 2002 @02:08PM (#3872621)
      For me, it would be perfect. I'm an AutoCAD designer, and I have to take my laptop with me to many clients, and use it as a presentation device. In the design field, any upgrade in size and resolution, that will still fit in a briefcase or laptop sack and not break my shoulder when I carry it is good enough for me. I generally take my laptop with me to wherever I'm working, set it up for the day, work, then take it home with me. This laptop is perfection!
    • 16.1"? Why? Whats the point? Aren't laptops supposed to be /portable/?

      Depends on your definition of portable. If your definition is "desktop in a briefcase", then the GRX line is for you. This GRX91G/P will do quite nicely as a Powerbook Ti crusher. If your definition is "as small as practical", try the SR, R505, or C1. In Japan, Sony has even smaller models, like the GT (think C1 with a much larger camera attachment) and the U (recently nicknamed "My First Sony" by the /. crowd). Of course, this is all based on Sony's Japanese [sonystyle.com] and American [sonystyle.com] lineups. Toshiba, Dell, IBM, Apple, HPQ... quite a diverse marketplace.

      As for the GRX91G/P itself, it looks like the only major differences from the US-spec GRX500 are the DVD burner, the remote control, and the software bundle. Otherwise, it's the GRX500 with the core specs (CPU speed, memory, storage) turned up one notch.

      I wonder if they are going to sell that USB remote [www.sony.jp] in the States? I could use something like that.

      • Admittedly it's not as nice as that Sony product you linked to, but Keyspan does make this... [keyspan.com]

        • Try this [mindspring.com] one for $9.

          It's serial (not USB) so that might be a downside, but it has linux support [lirc.org] too !

          I've been using one on my mp3 player box, and it's great!

        • Thanks for the tip. But I think I found something better. ATI is now selling the remote from their All-In-Wonder Radeon 8500 as a separate product, imaginatively dubbed the Remote Wonder. [ati.com] So far, it's only for Windows (not a big deal for me, at least), and I think I'll have to tinker to get some of the ATI-specific keys to respond in other apps, based on a hasty search of the browsable tech specs. But RF, more keys, and two-button mouse capability for the same price as the Keyspan seals the deal. I think I have a critical part of my Living Room PC project solved. Now I just need all the other parts. :-)

    • The last thing I want is to carry around a 16.1" diagonal behemoth

      Good point. I have a Titanium which has a 15.2 inch screen. It is a wider screen than most laptops so that would make it narrower than other 15" screens. Whenever I want to take my computer to campus (to use their bandwidth), I do noticed that the computer barely fits in the backpack which has one of those compartments for laptops. The velcro flap cannot fully close because the computer is too long. Get much bigger than this, and it will not fit in the backpack at all.

      I also have an older laptop which is not quite as big but weighs >9 pounds. It is easier to carry around in the backpack because it fit in the compartment completely.

      I would say that 15" is big enough for a portable computer until they figure out how to make rollup screens (like the globals on EFC). It is nice having a large screen on a laptop, but I prefer the portability. If I wanted a larger screen, I would buy one for home to connect to the computer and leave it there.

    • Not in the US. A good number of people commute from home to work and need a computer that is portable enough to move, but not necessarily to use in a mobile environment. Assuming that you're a student based on your backback comment, then yes, this is not targetted at you, nor are those huge 3" thick Dells I see here at work. However if you need power and stare at the screen all day, yet need to take your work with you to a hotel/home/alternate place of work that has a desk, then this laptop would be easier to use than one with a 12" screen
    • 16.1"? Why? Whats the point? Aren't laptops supposed to be /portable/? The last thing I want is to carry around a 16.1" diagonal behemoth, I'd much rather keep my 12.1" P2 300, which I can easily fit in my backpack.
      Given the incredible convenience those extra inches give while you're actually working, I'd gladly put up with a little extra weight. I'd like to abandon the desktop but I don't want to have to waste time constantly scrolling.

      In any case, how much can a few inches of screen add? Sure, the bottom section of the laptop has to be wider too, but they can mostly do that by redistributing the existing weight.

      If somebody brings out a laptop with a 17" screen, I'll buy one.

    • The point is that laptops are beginning to move from bare essentials for work on the road to real desktop replacement. The buyer of this laptop will buy it replace his desktop computer, so it will more often than not be stationary on some desk. Portability is just a feature. The point is that laptops are finally offering everything desktops can, large displays, hot performance, PLUS portability when you need it. This is why the days of the desktop as we know it are numbered.
    • Simple example why : I've actually a Inspiron 8000. I only took a laptop because I need to be able to cary my PC from work to home and back. When I get to my work or home, I have a keyboard and mouse that I plug. I don't use it in the plane or train, and like the majority of laptop users, it is almost always plugged in the electric outlet.

      So I need something as powerful as possible, with the largest screen as possible, yet that I can carry from home to work easely. That Sony looks mighty good to me :) I don't care if it's a bit heavier than your normal laptop, since I don't need to move it much anyway. If there was a 17" screen laptop, I'd go for it as well :)

  • Topic missed the point... (Score:5, Informative)

    by calc ( 1463 ) on Friday July 12, 2002 @01:34PM (#3872318)
    Sony already has laptops with 16.1" screens the point of the post was the new DVD-R/RW drive included. I am not sure why cmdrtaco changed the title to miss the point. ;)

  • Oooh (Score:5, Funny)

    by billatq ( 544019 ) on Friday July 12, 2002 @01:34PM (#3872321)
    I could sure use a new thinkpad. CdrTaco? Are you listening ;)?

  • I might actually buy one... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by schnurble ( 16727 ) on Friday July 12, 2002 @01:38PM (#3872357) Homepage
    if not for Sony's -stupid- policies about operating systems.

    EXAMPLE. My girlfriend bought a Vaio from Fry's last year when her old Toshi-baaaaaah was becoming too erratic to be useful. We took it home, saw that Millenium was loaded, both rolled our eyes in disgust, retreived my spare Win2k license and CD (from a machine that got Linux'ed), and started installing happily. However, right about the time it was finishing up, I decided to go download Win2k device drivers from the Sony web page.

    That was a laugh. I looked for 20 minutes, no luck. Called tech support, only to be told -THE ONLY OPERATING SYSTEM SUPPORTED ON THAT MACHINE WAS THE ONE IT SHIPPED WITH-. If we installed Windows2000, not only would the warranty be -VOID-, but we would not be able to get device drivers (because they made none) either.

    Needless to say, the Vaio went back in the box and back to Fry's the next morning. She bought a Dell Inspiron, and has been -extremely- happy since.

    I like Vaio's. Sony makes good products. The Vaios look good. But this soured my taste for them badly.

    • Re:I might actually buy one... (Score:4, Informative)

      by Hatechall ( 541378 ) on Friday July 12, 2002 @01:51PM (#3872482) Homepage
      If you sold a product with only one OS on it, why would you give support to others? Sure it would be nice I guess, but Dell, Gateway and pretty much all major players warrentees get "expired" after formatting, fdisking, or even upgrading the OS as you stated. [infoworld.com] Sure I don't like it, but it sure as hell isn't just Sony...
      • True. But with my Inspiron, I can get drivers for Win98, WinME, win2000, and WinXP. Dell (and others) are good about supporting future OS's.

        My point was, if this Vaio ships with WindowsXP, then you'd better get used to using WindowsXP forever. When Windows2004 comes out, Sony wont release drivers for it.
    • If you check out their site, you'll see pretty much every consumer-line PC they offer is loaded with Windows XP, with no other options. Which is too bad, because while their business line _does_ have Win2k as an option, they don't have as many high-end hardware options (you're stuck with 40Gb HDD, GeForce2 MX, integrated Intel sound).

      Sony does seem to offer a lot, in terms of style and function. But choice is still my biggest consideration when buying a box -- if I'm gonna be shelling that much cash out, I'd better get what *I* want. Maybe they'll change their tune.......... until then, I've got my good ol' Win2k Pro OEM CD to keep me warm at night. :)
      • Yeah... but the difference is.. with compaq, you can still go download Win2k drivers for your hardware if you need it.

        Sony uses proprietary stuff, and refuses to release drivers.
      • If you check out their site, you'll see pretty much every consumer-line PC they offer is loaded with Windows XP, with no other options. Which is too bad, because while their business line _does_ have Win2k as an option, they don't have as many high-end hardware options

        That is not surprising when the whole point of Windows XP is to merge the Microsoft business and home O/S.

        According to the slashgossip last week the W2K option is not going to be arround much longer from any PC vendors.

        My complaint is that a lot of companies only offer Windows XP Home with the FAT filesystem and scandisk hell. The upgrade to XP Pro is not supported.

        However a Vaio z505 works just fine under XP Pro with only a couple of problems. The jog dial appears to no longer work (even with the sony drivers). Also my sound seems to be shot, but that does not appear to be the O/S as it doesn't work on boot either at the moment.

    • Re:I might actually buy one... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by DigitalSorceress ( 156609 ) on Friday July 12, 2002 @02:00PM (#3872555)
      I purchased a Vaio laptop a while back, and it too had winME preloaded. At the time, Sony made an exact same model but with a "K" on the model number (which meant that it was loaded with Win2K)

      The absolute height of stupidity is that Sony DID indeed have all the Win2K drivers available for the "k" model(exactly the same system othwerwise)but when I installed Win2K and got to the part where I needed video drivers (the screen was in vga mode) I ran the installer and the damn thing said "this is not the right model"

      Here I was with the right driver package and I was unable to run it because Sony deliberately refused to allow the installer to be run on the system.

      I spent a hellish hour on hold for tech support ot be told "YOU CAN'T DO THAT" I wold have returned the whole thing, but I found the individual pieces direct from the OEMs (Intel 815 video chipset, etc...)

      A month or two later, I found a guy's web site where he detailed his own struggle and provided a step-by-step. Too late for me, but it was nice to know that someone else had figured it out too.

      The moral of the story is: Sony makes some great pcs, but if you want a version of Windows on it that they don't support, forget it.

      (as an aside, RedHat Linux installed perfectly the first try on the same machine - now I have a dual-boot Win2K /Red Hat Vail: nener nener Sony Scumme!)
      • A month or two later, I found a guy's web site where he detailed his own struggle and provided a step-by-step.

        Perhaps you could save us Vaio owners from a couple hours of googling and provide the URL?

        • I think the helpful URL is
          http://www.myplc.com/sony/index.htm
          I found lots of useful info regarding upgrading WinMe to Win2K for my GF's Vaio FX215. I gather that Sony put the Win2K drivers on their website this spring, but this computer was released last spring/summer, so this site was it for almost a year if you wanted to upgrade.
    • I will never own another Sony product. I had a PCG-C1 at work and a woman broke the screen so I had to send it in for repair. They lost the damn computer somewhere in their repair facility. The people I dealt with while trying to handle the problem were rude and hateful and one even tried to blame me for the lost computer. Sony forever lost me as a customer that day. Not that they care.
    • That was a laugh. I looked for 20 minutes, no luck. Called tech support, only to be told -THE ONLY OPERATING SYSTEM SUPPORTED ON THAT MACHINE WAS THE ONE IT SHIPPED WITH-. If we installed Windows2000, not only would the warranty be -VOID-, but we would not be able to get device drivers (because they made none) either.

      Sony provide W2K drivers for my Vaio on their Web site.

      There are many reasons to complain about Sony support, but buying a machine without first finding out if the manufacturer supports the O/S you want to use comes under the 'your own fault bonehead' category.

      My peeve about Sony is that I have bought two z505s and both have failled in exactly the same way, the cheap and nasty power connector has snapped causing it to become unreliable.

      Now this would not be a problem if Sony had used a standard part or would sell me the part. They insist that the only way they will fix it is for me to pay $200 per machine for them to fix it. Thats a bit much for a machine reaching the end of its working life even though it is basically OK.

      • There are many reasons to complain about Sony support, but buying a machine without first finding out if the manufacturer supports the O/S you want to use comes under the 'your own fault bonehead' category.

        If I had bought it with WinME loaded, intending to load Solaris x86 on it, without checking for support, then indeed, I would be at fault.

        But I was moving from one Microsoft OS to another. Between us, we've owned lots of laptops (Gateway, Dell, IBM, Toshiba, and briefly the Sony). I've never had a problem upgrading from one OS to another. I shouldn't have to.

        We're talking about, what? Video card, modem, sound card. If a company has drivers for Win98 for those, I'd be willing to bet you can easily port them to WinME (or 2k, or XP).

        I shouldn't have to plan the next 5 years of what I do with my computer based on what it ships with now. What if I decided I wanted WindowsXP? I'm doomed.
  • I've already made the decision to switch to the powerbook G4 (yay). I've had it up to HERE with MS on a peecee, and as a graphics & print designer, *nix just isn't an option. I'm keeping a few old PCs around to fiddle with freeBSD (firewalls and security are neat!), but that's it.

    While the vaio is nice, the [slashdot.org] MS [slashdot.org] monopoly [slashdot.org] makes [slashdot.org] it [slashdot.org] less [slashdot.org] attractive [slashdot.org] than the other alternatives...
    • The Powerbook G4 is going to have *nix on it, since the DarwinOS behind OS X is a BSD distribution.

      You can even get the Darwin OS seperate from the OS X and run X Windows on it:

      GNU-Darwin [sourceforge.net]

      XFree86 on Darwin and Mac OS X [mrcla.com]

      Oh, and I discovered something pretty cool about GNU-Darwin, which unfortunately I can't do with Yellow Dog Linux [yellowdoglinux.com], a primarily Apple based Linux distribution. I can put it on a FireWire drive and then have my choice to boot from my harddrive or from my firewire drive. Of course, I haven't played with it that much, to try to do things like access the main hard drive or use the modem. Mainly that's because using OS X with rootless X (OroborOSX [ic.ac.uk]) I haven't seen the need. (I think GNU_Darwin needs a little work, I wasn't able to get Enlightenment working with it, but a plain vanilla Xserver was easy.)

      I like the fact that Apple has decided to support Free OS development. Oh, and before anyone starts complaining about "proprietary hardware," please remember that this is Apple versus (boo, hiss) Sony, masters of proprietary hardware such as memory stick, etc. (Besides, I'm not likely to go mucking about in the guts of my ultra thin laptop the way I will with my trusty desktop PC.)

      • Yes i'm aware of that... i was speaking more along the lines of the linux desktop environments. Think I'm gonna get PS for X11? *grins*

        And the BSD core is an added bonus... i get to play with a prompt i'm comfortable with, instead of that stupid MS command prompt.

  • Did they actually increase the res though? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by ostiguy ( 63618 ) on Friday July 12, 2002 @01:42PM (#3872396)
    Its probably just 1600x1200, just like the 15 inchers. Some people are hawking 14 and 15 inchers that only do 1024x768. ugh!

    i am not a fan of sony pcs anyhow though - 90 warranty unless you register, and we have had bad luck with em

    ostiguy

  • Got one of these last month (Score:5, Informative)

    by AirLace ( 86148 ) on Friday July 12, 2002 @01:45PM (#3872428)
    The screen is beatiful. But the keyboard is a nightmare, just for that reason I though of giving it back. Also, the BIOS doesn't support APM properly so you have to use the ACPI stuff if you need power management, and swsusp to suspend to RAM as it's no longer built in to the BIOS. It's also a nightmare to carry around, like the lunchbox computers of yesteryear -- this is kind of my first VAIO I've been disappointed in.
    • > Also, the BIOS doesn't support APM properly...

      LMAO, the Radeon Mobility 7500 is not exactly famous for its power-saving ability, even when it's sitting around in 2D mode. Combine that with the backlight for the extra-large surface area (as well as potentially bigger speakers), is it reasonable to think anyone is going attempt to take advantage of "Advanced Power Management"?

      Sure, such a gamer^H^H^H^H^H user might have his quiet moments where he just wants to compose poetry or manage his shopping list in a coffeehouse somewhere, but IMHO, a "laptop" with a 16" screen is going to a little big to live up to its namesake.

      I can see only one primary purpose for this machine: LAN Party.
      (...Oh yeah, and getting work done onsite, when your clients try to set you up with a "Development Station" that's too damn slow to mirror their live database backend.)

      Solomon
    • It's quite common nowadays; which is rather unfortunate, given the poor state of Linux APCI support.

      And regarding ACPI superiority - APCI is more powerful, but it's also more complicated. It's not just for power management but for general device configuration and initilization as well. Additionally, it includes its own interpreted language, AML, which lets companies write their own custom routines. As you can imagine, having to implement the AML interpreter is a somewhat large task and may be a potential secure risk. There's an overview about this at Kernel Traffic [zork.net] from awhile ago

      APM is about standard power-saving commands, whereas ACPI lets the manufacture program

  • 16" too big? It depends... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by GJSchaller ( 198865 ) on Friday July 12, 2002 @01:45PM (#3872432) Homepage
    I have a GRX-500 with the 16" screen. I'm happy with it.

    I don't want a lightweight laptop - I got this as a Desktop Replacement. When I take it on the road, I don't plan on using it on the train, or on the bus - I plan on sitting it down on a desk or table, and using it there.

    I can see why people would want a smaller laptop. But there are people who want a portable desktop, for use at shows, offsite, etc. where it won't be moved much once it's deployed.

    IMO, if I want a very portable PC, I'll use a PDA. ;)
  • In the semi-transparent view on the upper right of the page? It looks like it.

    Two fans, 16.1" screen, a Pent 4 and a DVD-RW drive. This seems like a power-hungry desktop, rather than a laptop. Anyone venture to guess on the lap temperature? How about deci-Bell levels?

    -- Len

  • Battery Life (Score:3, Interesting)

    by robertchin ( 66419 ) on Friday July 12, 2002 @01:47PM (#3872448) Homepage
    If you're planning on mastering a DVD video, wouldn't your battery die before the process is complete (encoding + burning)? If so, then what's the point? How long does it take to burn a DVD anyway?

    • Re:Battery Life (Score:2, Informative)

      by damiam ( 409504 )
      I've toyed with the Superdrive on a PowerMac G4, and it seemed to burn (not including compression) at about 1x (in other words, 30 min of video take about 30 min. to burn). This is with the default compression settings - obviously, it's quicker to burn if you compress more. DV video seemed to compress at about 0.5x (on a 733Mhz G4 w/ AltiVec).

      However, if I were burning a DVD, I'd probably plug in my computer, not run it off batteries.

    • Re:Battery Life (Score:2, Informative)

      by laymil ( 14940 )
      according to a japanese friend, the laptop must be plugged in when the dvd burner is in use. this is mentioned on the website! :)

  • Yet again another "Sony is godhead" story (Score:4, Funny)

    by MsGeek ( 162936 ) on Friday July 12, 2002 @01:53PM (#3872500) Homepage Journal
    Wow.

    You'd think /. would know better by now. Sony is NOT your friend. Sony is a member of both the RIAA and the MPAA and would like nothing better than to control everything you put into your machine.

    There are so many other companies that make laptops. Vaios are cute and kawaii but then again so is the Fujitsu Lifebook. And Fujitsu belongs to neither the RIAA or MPAA. Plus you can get a spiffomundo Crusoe chip in the thing, so you can say that you've got Linus Inside! How cool is that?

    "The RIAA and the MPAA are a bad, evil corporate conspiracy...OOOH! Shiny objects! I want!!!"

  • bad news for Linux? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by tps12 ( 105590 ) on Friday July 12, 2002 @01:53PM (#3872501) Homepage Journal
    Wow, I'm continually amazed by the high-quality products pumped out by Sony, specifically as part of their VAIO line. This little beast looks to be no exception (16.1"? Hot damn that's a lot of xterms!).

    However, I am afraid of the impact this laptop might have on the Linux market. Linux has had most of its growth running on older computers that have been replaced with fast, new ones by people who want to watch DVD's, surf the web, and play the latest games. One of the beauties of Linux has always been that you could grab that old Pentium one that was headed for the trash heap, slap Debian on there, and have a damn fine firewall. Even Joe Average PC Owner can figure Mandrake or Red Hat out enough to get Linux running on an obsolete box.

    Sadly, this is not the case with new PCs. Higher-end systems tend to come with the latest Windows (that most people will keep just for the "gee whiz" factor) pre-installed. Furthermore, they may come with the latest cutting-edge peripherals (such as video cards, DVD players, and printers) that aren't yet supported under Linux. For whatever the reason, people who don't mind using Linux to "rescue" a dump-bound 486 will frequently have qualms about wiping Windows from their shiny new Dells.

    Unfortunately, Sony has a history of making this effect even more pronounced with it's VAIO laptops. They frequently use proprietary chipsets and hardware that isn't fully supported under Linux. Reports about of incompatiblities with filesystems, X configuration, and modem support.

    What this boils down to is that this product, sweet as though it may be, is bound to have a detrimental effect on Linux sales. I think I'll pass on this one. Hopefully, if enough people (I'm looking at you, CmdrTaco) follow suit, we'll send Sony a message, demonstrate that Linux does belong on new PCs, and the world will thank us.
    • For whatever the reason, people who don't mind using Linux to "rescue" a dump-bound 486 will frequently have qualms about wiping Windows from their shiny new Dells.

      I use Linux (debian, to be precise) on my shiny new Dell laptop, and have absolutely no problems with it. You'll find that the hardware argument between Linux and Windows is different than it was 2 years ago. Linux development has progressed to the point where one seems to be more likely to find solid Linux support for a piece of hardware than to find support for your particular version of Windows.

      For hardware support, Windows is fragmented in a negative way. There are several versions of Windows in active use now, ME, 2k, XP, and even win98 boxes out there yet. Drivers are frequently not interchangeable between these, and often there are platforms left out to dry.

      Linux, however, despite its various distribution choices, has one central kernel tree developing hardware support. Because of this you can guarantee that you can always plug the latest bug-fixed driver into any Linux distribution without disturbing the rest of the machine.

  • I am not quite sure I understand where Sony is coming from including a DVD-RW drive. From what I have read, they are completely DVD+RW driven, to the point of being a member of the alliance [dvdrw.com]. The thing that irks me here is that this does not help the already splintered standard battle going on out there. On one hand you have Phillips, HP, Yamaha and Sony supporting DVD+RW, and on the other, you have Pioneer, Apple, and ..... Sony supporting DVD-RW. How can this be good for the end user?!
    • Sony *does* get it. DVD+R/+RW are Beta all over again.

      +R is more compatible than -R with settop DVD players and older DVD-ROM drives. +R/+RW drives write faster than their -R/-RW counterparts. It's arguably the "better" format.

      But...
      HP et al. screwed the early adopters with +RW drives that won't write +R. +R/+RW media is more expensive, and while + has the edge for the write-once discs, -RW has better compatibility with settop players.

      Sony is big enough that they can just bet on both horses, and no matter who wins, they're OK. In fact, Sony is rumored (or maybe it's official now) to be building a drive that does all four (+R/+RW/-R/-RW)

  • Sony Has Sold Out To Microsoft (Score:5, Interesting)

    by the eric conspiracy ( 20178 ) on Friday July 12, 2002 @02:03PM (#3872573)
    I recently went shopping for a laptop, and seriously considered a Sony 16.1" screen model. I decided against purchasing a Sony product because
    Sony has an extremely bad policy in regard to OS support.

    Sony encodes the BIOS with a designation describing the OS that it was sold with. This designation is checked by the drivers supplied by Sony. If the driver OS doesn't match the BIOS designation, the drivers do not load. This is to prevent buyers from installing an OS that the laptop was not sold with. Sony also does not make driver packages available for download online.

    The end result is that you will be stuck with whatever OS the machine was sold with. Want to run Win2K Server on a machine sold with Win XP? Too Bad.

    Want to dual boot Win2K and XP. Nah. Want to upgrade when the next Windows comes out? Nope.

    The only exception to this is that it is possible with some fiddling to install Win XP Pro on a machine that came with XP Home. But don't count on Sony to tell you how! They won't.

    In my opinion the result is that Sony laptops are completely unsuitable for technically inclined users.

    BTW, my search ended up with a Compaq 2800T with WinXP and the same Radeon card as the Sony. It's got a 15.1" screen, USB 2.0 and is FAR more portable. It also runs RedHat 7.3 and Windows 2000 just fine.It's also expandable to 1gig of RAM and has USB 2.0. The configurability from the Compaq store is also far better than with the Sony.

    Sony? Not until they adopt a less hostile OS policy.

    • You can always run linux on it:
      http://www.linux-on-laptops.com/sony.html [linux-on-laptops.com]

      But wish I could buy it with linux preinstalled...
      I hate to pay for what I don't use(eg, a Windows license :))

      \\Uriel
      • Well, if you buy an Apple laptop you don't pay for a windows license :)

        I've had the 500mHz iBook2 for over a year now, and it's been a great machine. OS X isn't quite my cup o' tea (too slow) and I don't find OS 9 useful for anything, but it runs Linux great. Not as much expansion as most laptops due to the lack of PCMCIA, but the hardware is built solid and IMHO the great battery life makes up for lack of expansion.

    • No problems here (Score:5, Informative)

      by Skevin ( 16048 ) on Friday July 12, 2002 @02:35PM (#3872855) Journal
      I bought my sister an FXA47 for her birthday, with WinXP pre-installed. WinXP on a Vaio doesn't seem to like DirectX 8.1, so I reimaged it with Win2K. The only things it didn't recognize immediately were the sound card and the modem (which was a WinModem anyway). I used the XP drivers that came with the machine, even though it warned me that the drivers were not signed/trusted; I got both working just fine.

      The only problem was getting the original applications back onto the machine, complete with registry settings. The Application Restoration Disk keeps telling me that the installer can only run on Sony Vaios... Hah! (Along these lines, I'm trying to actually write a program/script to analyze a Registry Image for such settings... a Key Copier, if you will).

      Anyway, I just want you all to know that OpenGL and Direct3D run *much* faster under Win2k than the default OS crap called XP that came installed on the system.

      Solomon

    • Re:Sony Has Sold Out To Microsoft (Score:4, Informative)

      by The Bungi ( 221687 ) <thebungi@gmail.com> on Friday July 12, 2002 @03:14PM (#3873132) Homepage
      I don't work for Sony, particularly like them or otherwise give a shit, though I think they make good consumer electronics. But this is nothing but FUD.

      I have a Vaio PCG-F430 (older model) here that shipped with Win98. It's running Windows 200 Pro right now, and at one point it was also running Win2K Advanced server. I got it through a company-sponsored purchase program. I figured Vaio was better than no laptop, although I probably wouldn't have bought one if I was spending my own money. Still, I've had absolutely no problems other than an intermittent green ghost stripe in the LCD that appears when the thing is left in the car in 110F heat for too long. It disappears after the screen has cooled.

      About four months ago I replaced the 2.5 inch hard drive. Not a single problem. I also upgraded the memory to 256MB. Not a problem.

      Sony makes drivers and utilities (such as those that control the touch pad and so on) available from their web site, on a per model basis. That means that you can find your model and download replacements for every single piece of software that shipped with the laptop originally, from the sound card to the video card. If you haven't already, I'd recommend you visit Sony's web site. Bring some crow for muching.

      Now, when I installed W2KAS I didn't even bother installing the utilities. Everything worked perfectly fine. And then with W2kPRO, I installed all of them. Guess what? Everything works fine.

      I can say the same thing for late model Vaios since I helped a friend get rid of WinME and install W2K Pro on his. He didn't even bother installing the updated drivers, because everything was working fine, with the exception of the SD thing, which he wasn't using anyway. USB, FireWire, video, sound, NIC, PCMCIA, etc. Everything worked flawlessly the first time W2K booted up.

      Perhaps you want to provide a link or two backing up your claims?

  • Linux-Loaded? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Ted V ( 67691 ) on Friday July 12, 2002 @02:06PM (#3872598) Homepage
    Sorry to sound like a typical slashdot troll, but does this come with Linux preloaded? I'm shopping for a laptop, and I *really* don't want to pay the Microsoft Operating System Tax(tm) for an OS I'm not going to use. Any recommendations on laptops with preloaded linux and places to buy them that *WON'T* charge me for Windows?
    • Please mod parent up, I'm in exactly the same situation!

      I'm still dreaming of the day I can buy a Vaio PictureBook
      preloaded with linux... *sight*

      I wish that at least IBM started offering Linux as an option
      for *ALL* their thinkpads.

      \\Uriel

    • Re:Linux-Loaded? (Score:5, Informative)

      by elflord ( 9269 ) on Friday July 12, 2002 @02:59PM (#3873036) Homepage
      Sorry to sound like a typical slashdot troll, but does this come with Linux preloaded? I'm shopping for a laptop, and I *really* don't want to pay the Microsoft Operating System Tax(tm) for an OS I'm not going to use. Any recommendations on laptops with preloaded linux and places to buy them that *WON'T* charge me for Windows?

      I get my computers from ASL [aslab.com], and so do my employers, so I've dealt with a number of their machines. They do Linux laptops, and will not charge you for Windows on a Linux-only system.

    • I've seen some really good deals at Xtremenotebooks.com [xtremenotebooks.com]. I've never bought from them, nor do I even know anyone who has, so I can't vouch for them, but they have powerful machines at pretty good prices.

      (Can anyone comment on the quality?)

  • This is news? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by penguinboy ( 35085 ) on Friday July 12, 2002 @02:07PM (#3872602)
    I saw a laptop with a 16" screen in Best Buy about two months ago..
  • My idea for a laptop: drop all the old crap and make it light. My wish list includes:
    • a bunch of USB ports (4 or 6 of em..and spread them out around the sides/back)
    • Firewire
    • Built in 802.11b
    • Integrated 10/100 + 56K
    • Slot load DVD/CDRW
    Honestly, drop the paralell/serial/ps2 ports. Almost everything nowadays is USB (desk printers, kybd/mouse, dig cameras, scanners). Now make a 15" (ok..maybe even 16") screen, but thin it up. If that means you have to drop the speed on the cpu, fine. Cant put a 40G drive in and keep it thin? Put in a 20G - should be plenty (for now). So basically, I want an x86 Itanium - big screen, slim, light (relatively), all new technology, and plenty fast.

    And if anybody knows of a laptop that has all of that, please tell me :) I dont even mind if its expensive (~2500 is around top of the line nowadays).
    • Have you considered an Apple Powerbook [apple.com]?

      *a bunch of USB ports (4 or 6 of em..and spread them out around the sides/back) has 2
      * Firewire yes
      * Built in 802.11b yes
      * Integrated 10/100 + 56K yes - gigabit even
      * Slot load DVD/CDRW yes

      Itanium? Try Titanium
      • Oops..my bad. Thats what I meant - the apple Titaniums rock - but I want x86 :)
  • On some of their Vaio's, Sony's been selling them with a cheap-ass 45 minute battery (which of course rounds up to 1-2 hours in the sales literature). This lets them shave $200 off the list price, until you get it home and discover that your laptop is only portable for 45 minutes (less if you actually use the hd or cd/dvd). A decent Sony battery (2700 maH) is a BP71A, listing at about $240. The crappy one is the BP-1A, though part numbers will change.

    So, before you buy, look at the maH rating of the battery. Or have fun getting Sony to upgrade your laptop with a battery that at least meets the low end of their claimed life.
  • I'm pretty sure I saw this at the Sony store in the Metreon in San Francisco last week. This thing is giant ... thin ... but giant.

    I folded it up and I imagined that carrying it would be like hauling around an artist's portfolio. I didn't expect it to be so huge.

    Hmmm ... maybe this [xentex.com] is a little better?

  • This is the same Sony that... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 12, 2002 @02:12PM (#3872651)
    • is a member of the MPAA
    • is a member of the RIAA
    • Blocked people from writing Open Source projects for their AIBO's
    • Blocked people from developing with Linux on the PS2
    • Sued people for writing emulators for their old discontinued games
    • Developed the proprietary memory stick, and are a proponent of the DMCA
    maybe its time for a change. Slashdot? You listening? *grin*
  • any japanese laptop shops that are willing to ship to US? Man, I'm drooling over these japanese ultra-light laptops (e.g. Libretto L5, ...) which are not available in the US.

    Sure, you can buy from dynamism.com or conics.net, but they are way expensive. conics.net charges a lot of fee for credit card.

    And Toshiba, are you listening? There are people in the US and other places that like small and light laptops too, not just those "mastodontes". There IS a market out here.

  • Wow, about time! (Score:3, Funny)

    by genkael ( 102983 ) on Friday July 12, 2002 @02:18PM (#3872706)
    I was really getting tired of lugging around this 17" CRT with me everywhere I went.
  • Pray to whatever deity/force of nature you subscribe to that it doesn't break. A client of mine purchased a Vaio in the winter, and it hasn't worked since day one. Machine starts up and then locks up intermittently. We've been running around in circles with Vaio support to the point my client had to call Sony of Canada's president to get any action on it at all. It's been 5 months. She runs a two person business. At one point, she was on the phone to the repair supervisor at the Coquitlam facility, and when she told him that the laptop had essentially been out of commission for the last 5 months with all this screwing around, and how was someone supposed to get along without a laptop for that long, the asshat actually asked her why she didn't have a spare for situations like this!? Hmm.. Let's see why she didn't have a spare.. Because she spent 75% of her small business's IT budget on a new Sony laptop that DOESN'T WORK?
  • I bought one of the 15" varieties @1.6GHz in April - a PCG-GRX550. If I could have afforded the $2200 price tag, I would have bought the 16.1" screen from Best Buy.

    I didn't know it at the time but mine came with Win XP Home and not Professional. (I lost myself gazing into such a large screen and had to buy it - no matter what, dammit!) Models with a 'P' tacked onto the end of the model have Win XP Pro installed (IE: PCG-GRX550P.)

    The one thing I'm not too keen on is some of the software that came bundled on mine. There's one program that is supposed to be some sort of graphical browser for viewing pictures with all the other pictures 'floating' behind the currently viewed picture. It was very straining to look at and very odd to use. I removed it quickly.

    One of the good things about this unit is that it comes with a Sony MemoryStick port - making it very useful for people who have Sony digital cameras or a Sony Clie. Just pop in a cartridge and it can immediately access the card making sharing pictures between LT & Camera/Clie a snap.

    The screen on the 15" model is very crisp but the 16.1" display is orgasmic! On a 15" model you can adjust the Radeon to 1600x1200 but it is 'windowed' and unweildy so I stay in 1024x768.

  • Sony Notebooks in general (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ErikTheRed ( 162431 ) on Friday July 12, 2002 @02:52PM (#3872995) Homepage
    1) I've always found them to be extremely fragile. The number of people I know with Sony notebooks that haven't (badly) cracked or broken the cheap plastic case within one year is still zero.

    2) As has been mentioned, their driver policy sucks ass.

    3) No DVD-RW drive for it yet, but my 1-Year Old IBM Thinkpad T22 has a 15" screen (1400x1050x32), weighs less than 5 lbs, fits in any standard-size notebook carrying case, has the traditionally awesome IBM notebook keyboard (and personally I prefer the Trackpoint to the various touchpads), runs any version of Windows that I want, and is fully Linux compatible (Red Hat 7.3 installs perfectly). Oh, and since IBM's notebooks use the "UltraBay" spec, I know that when they do come out with a DVD-RW drive, it will work with my machine...

    'nough said.
  • I prefer small ultra-portable laptops (for travelling). But, I also like big 1600x1200 screens. And I only want a single computer.

    So what I'd like to do is buy an ultra-portable laptop and a separate big screen. Most of the time, the screen will be plugged into the laptop. When I'm travelling, though, I'll not take the big screen with me; instead, I'll make do with the screen that comes with the laptop.

    Does anyone have suggestions on which ultra-portables this could be done with, and also on what potential problems might arise?

    Kind thanks, Sara

  • These things are starting to stretch the definition of "laptop."

    In another year or so we'll probably see models with four fold-down legs like a card table, because they'll be so big and heavy people will injure themselves if they try to just perch one on their lap.

    Here's a sneak peak at the 2003 VAIO "portable" line: Item 1, [cyberguys.com] Item 2 [cyberguys.com]

    ~Philly
  • The spacebar on my thinkpad has been dying...

    Taco, the spacebars on Japanese laptops are tiny. They're smaller than the shift keys.

  • Toshiba's Satellite 1955-S801 [compusa.com] has a 16" 1280x1024 display too, GeForce4 440 Go (32meg), etc. Unfortunately, like the Sony it uses an Intel P4 CPU. I gave up waiting for someone to make a decent Athlon laptop, gave my old Toshiba K62-333 laptop to my parents, and switched back to a custom-built desktop. Compaq's upcoming Presario 900 [compaq.com] looks like the best bet, 15" screen, ATI Radeon graphics.
  • ...not only in the posts I read here, but also in Japan where last time I went there, I was surprised when someone told his friend who was contemplating buying a VAIO: "Sony wa hidoi!" which translates roughly by "Sony, what a piece of crap!"

    I used to own a VAIO Z505 and loved it, then I got a VAIO R505 and couldn't figure out why Sony had made the fan constantly working WITH a variable speed. Had it been rotating at a constant speed, it would have been ok, but the change in speed got on my nerves. The keyboard was soso and the finish kinda cheap (wasup with all the plastic crap around), I returned the unit (and shelved a 10% restocking fee, bastards!)
    I also wasn't very pleased when I got a picturebook with WindowsMe to find out that there web site didn't have the drivers if I wanted to update to Windows2K. This one was also returned before the end of month.
    With Thinkpads and Dells, I never was disappointed, but Sony, I am afraid that something wrong will happen again. Beside, Sony are not doing the right thing for people to like them (DMCA, MPAA, RIAA, etc...) so Star Wars Galaxy, I won't buy, Everquest: I stopped playing since they got bought. I don't even watch their movies and dvds, and boycotted buying their CDs. Why is /. advertising their crap is beyond me.

    PPA, the girl next door
  • We're not bycotting the _evil_ sony anymore? Ha.
  • I've had a VAIO for awhile and I can tell you firsthand that the support sux [sony.com]. Before you buy, bop around the support site. Don't worry, it wont take long (not much there). Dell [dell.com] OTOH has been wonderfull.

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