Ask About 10 Years of Free Web Publishing 114
This week's Slashdot questions go to Paul Jones, director of ibiblio.org (formerly MetaLab, before that SunSITE) since it first went live in August, 1992. Ibiblio hosts the world's largest Linux archive (including the LDP), plenty of streamed and downloadable music, the world's longest-running Web cartoon (Dr. Fun), and thousands of texts on topics too numerous to list here. This is truly "the public's library and digital archive," 100% GPL, copyleft, and/or public domain, sponsored jointly by the Center for the Public Domain and UNC. Lots of people talk about free online publishing. Paul Jones just does it, day after day, year after year. Ask him whatever you want; we'll send 10 of the highest moderated questions to him and post his answers as soon as we get them back.
Cool, but... (Score:1)
Re:Cool, but... (Score:1, Insightful)
That's like asking how libraries stay open.
FUNDING FUNDING FUNDING.
Of course its something that SPENDS money, not MAKES money. Hence the FUNDING
Should I say it again (cause more people are asking).
OK, one more time.
FUNDING
Two words... (Score:5, Interesting)
What's your take on these two technologies?
Are you afraid they'll ultimately destroy what you have been working for, for the past 10 years? If not, why?
Optional question: What about the copyright extension we have seen?
Another optional question: Linux... or BSD? =)
Ads?? (Score:1)
Kal
Re:Ads?? (Score:2)
Note the interesting list of partners.
What is your greatest success/failure? (Score:5, Interesting)
Looking back on 10 years of doing this, what would classify as your greatest success, and your greatest failure?
Figures lie and liars figure... er? (Score:5, Interesting)
*HOW* many gigs per day, HOW much cost per day, how many people download the latest linux ISO on their cable/dsl just because they can?
Sunsite (as I'll forever call it) isn't just a measure of the pulse of linux penetration, it's been the heart of it for me over the years. -_-()
Re:Figures lie and liars figure... er? (Score:3, Funny)
let's not get carried away here...
Relative importance of different material? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Relative importance of different material? (Score:2)
I don't call "Le Marquis de Sade" 's books fringe documents! But otherwise your question is good. The Gutenberg Project has a long list of books and authors published. How do they or you, Mr. Jones, decide on what is not acceptable?
Would you allow publication of "Mein Kampf" or a copyleft'ed book from Ben Laden?
Or a book on how to illegally circumvent encryption?
Government money (Score:1, Interesting)
Project Gutenberg (Score:3, Interesting)
- the preference for ascii over html (I've seen a few cases lately where html-versions were offered too-- will this be the future policy?)
- the annoying pages of smallprint at the start
- the 'server indirection' that requires a decision *every single time* of which server to use
- the absence (or obscure placement) of basic bibliographic info like publication-date
It seems like these choices were made several generations ago, in Internet Time, so I hope they're all being reconsidered?
Re:Project Gutenberg (Score:5, Informative)
First, you should know that we're in the midst of a big Web page redesign. We'll be moving our main pages from http://promo.net/pg to http://ibiblio.org/gutenberg (with virtual domains of course: gutenberg.net and friends). We'll be addressing many of your concerns. You heard it here, first.
Second, I agree our "finding aids" (in library terms) are poor. It's my #1 priority to get this stuff working better, and in fact several people are working right now to put a new database-driven system into place.
Responses to your questions: ascii over html: We take everything, but also try to make sure we have a plain ASCII file in addition to other formats. Most volunteers give us just text, since that's what comes from their OCR of books. In the near future, we will have automatic conversion on the fly into nearly ANY format, starting with Braille, then adding HTML, XML, PDF and others including PDA eBook formats....text too, of course.
small print: Since November 2001 the small print at the start is only 35 lines or so, including the title, author, pub date, etc. The long annoying legalese is at the end now. The automatic conversion process mentioned above will enable us to put the most recent header (with the short front part) on all the older content. As to "why do we need the legalese," read the small print itself, it's pretty clear.
server indirection: this is one of those finding aids problems we'll overcome. A cookie or other configuration would do the trick here...
bibliogaphic information: All the recent (last year or two) texts include this right up top. Even the older ones include a "release date" or something similar. The improved finding aids will let you search by publication date, by the way.
We're actively discussing this stuff on the Project Gutenberg Volunteer's Discussion List, see mailing list subscription info [promo.net] for how to subscribe.
Dr. Gregory B. Newby
Chief Executive and Director
Project Gutenberg Literary Archive Foundation
http://gutenberg.net
A 501(c)(3) not-for-profit organization with EIN 64-6221541
Re:Project Gutenberg (Score:1)
Cost effective (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Cost effective (Score:1)
Re:Cost effective (Score:1)
Sounds like they get money from elsewhere, not profitting.
Re:Cost effective (Score:1)
Re:Cost effective (Score:1)
> and pop up/under windows that annoy me to no end.
Why don't you do something about it? Download Mozilla [mozilla.org] to get rid of everything that annoys you when performing your daily surfing.
Re:Cost effective (Score:2)
ibiblio is a nonprofit internet collaborative supported through the generous
and enthusiastic contributions of the following partners...
http://ibiblio.org/partners/ [ibiblio.org]
Re:Cost effective (Score:1)
Content requests (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Content requests (Score:2, Troll)
What's your biggest area? (Score:5, Interesting)
Which ones get the most traffic?
Re:What's your biggest area? (Score:1)
Yeah, that was unclear. Note that the "biggest area" refers to the most popular, most prominent or most prestigious repositories hosted on ibiblio, not to the ones with the most content.
If the answer to my question is available on the site, point it out! I saw a reference to 3 million visitors a day but no hint as to where they're mostly going.
Question of Money (Score:5, Interesting)
is "They are great. But how long will they be around?"
Do you see this as a concern (esp. after the LWN announcement) and do you have any
comments regardning this. Are there any good approaches you suggest (like augmenting
free usership with voluntary subscriptions, etc) for such free sites in general ?
Thanks.
What about content producers? (Score:5, Interesting)
archive.org (Score:1, Interesting)
How similar are your efforts to what archive.org [archive.org] is doing?
Backups (Score:5, Interesting)
mythical step 2... (Score:1)
What's step 2?
Re:mythical step 2... (Score:2)
Pray.
Re:mythical step 2... (Score:1)
Not everything in this world is done for (monetary) profit.
Time management (Score:3, Interesting)
Donations? (Score:4, Informative)
From the FAQ... (Score:1)
Is Doctor Fun the oldest comic on the Internet?
No. That would be "Where the Buffalo Roam" [shadowculture.com] by Hans Bjordahl. "Where the Buffalo Roam" started in 1991, and had its own Usenet group long before Doctor Fun came along, and is still running on the web.
Slack. (Score:4, Funny)
Come Dino Boy we must escape! (Score:4, Interesting)
I think ibiblio HAS to be as large of a project as it is because it is one of so few projects of a similar nature. How unique is your organization's situation in terms of third party support? Not everyone can exactly plop down and decide to run a massive network dedicated to freedom of information and dissemination. Outside of university CS departments there's little support for the sort of information ibiblio propogates, I think the next largest group in that arena would be the OSDN network. A large part of any organization's focus and drive is going to be the people involved, obviously the people you have have working on your poject aren't replicatable but thereare like minded folk in the world. Besides the personal specifics of your group how replicatable is the ibiblio project? Is it something any dedicated group of individuals could accomplish if they set out to do it or did it require the right people at the right place at the right time with the Sun at a particular angle to happen?
SunSite vs ftp.cdrom.com (Score:1)
Re:SunSite vs ftp.cdrom.com (Score:2)
The site www.ibiblio.org is running Apache/1.3.26 (Unix) mod_perl/1.27 mod_fastcgi/2.2.12 PHP/4.0.6 on Linux.
No idea of what ftpd daemon ftp.ibiblio.org runs, I get the same response looking up the ftp server in netcraft.
If you could... (Score:1)
Of course this is a somewhat generic and personal question, but people can have very interesting answers to this question...
How are you funded (Score:1, Interesting)
GeekPAC and "When Congress Attacks" (Score:5, Insightful)
With Congress launching seemingly daily attacks on our technological freedom in order to support the revenue models of a few huge businesses, the need for a voice in Washington is growing urgent. Is the AOTC/GeekPAC working to get our voices heard? Is there a need for an umbrella group to tie together various groups like GeekPAC, Public Knowledge, Digital Consumer, etc.?
No... (Score:2)
Oh, wait. That's the same thing.
Simple question (Score:1)
I have a question (Score:1)
Who pays for all that traffic, and why? (Score:1)
How long can it last? (Score:3, Interesting)
By fluke or by design, similar barriers are going up around the internet. Bandwidth costs money, overzealous IP lawyers, new laws and a miriade of other factors are starting to inhibit the enthusiasts ability to write on this medium.
With large business and government seeking to control the internet as it does other media, how long to you anticipate the internet remaining a read-write technology for the home user?
Bandwidth on the back of Taxpayers? (Score:1)
What steps to raise funding have you undertaken in this time of state budget constraints, given the enormous resources that are devoted to running this site?
Re:Bandwidth on the back of Taxpayers? (Score:1)
iBiblio is one of the LEANEST organizations I've ever witnessed, (can you say student labor?). Many commercial IT departments could learn a thing or two. Besides, they pay their way in more appropriate methods than financial. Some of us were lured to the UNC Library School partly because of SunSite's reputation. Likewise, having iBiblio there keeps Paul Jones there, which makes for some very fortunate IS and LS students, which improves UNC's reputation...
I would ask Paul to talk about the value iBiblio brings to UNC and to North Carolina, value that could be replicated in other places by hosting similar systems. Likewise, is he aware of any up-and-comers DOING similar work in other places, places that might need some volunteer assistance, lobbying, or financial support?
~~~~~~~~~
Cost cutting using Peer-to-Peer, Bitzi etc. (Score:2)
Is this an area worth persuing, in your opinion?
Typical Questions (Score:5, Interesting)
Setting aside the money questions... (Score:5, Interesting)
Slashdot? (Score:1)
Metadata and easy searching (Score:5, Interesting)
Any $$$ offers for content from corps or VCs? (Score:1)
What about the files that ibiblo holds the copyright to? Anyone offer money to take them private? Or to take the site private?
Trust metric and online publishing (Score:5, Interesting)
Hardware over the years? (Score:1)
Thank you (Score:2)
Sometimes I see portage (gentoo [gentoo.org]) hitting ibiblio for source files. Some things never change...
err... (Score:2)
Re:err...no porn? (Score:2)
0 Collection Matches
My question is two-fold: What are you going to do to fix this? Also, would donating the use of my bed help?
information already is free (Score:2, Interesting)
To what extent is the ibiblio community idealistically motivated towards the future "free-ing" of all published works?
To what extent is the community motivated by the possibility of future profit?
Artists say "free" but don't use licenses. A fix? (Score:3, Interesting)
Of course I'd like to find more music to play that is already under these licenses (I've scoured openaudioregistry.org [openaudioregistry.org], but other suggestions welcome), but I'm also trying to convince artists, both friends and strangers, to release the music on these licenses. Usually, a band has a web-site or posts their music to mp3.com and they advertise it as "free!", but after a couple of emails, it's clear that the artists don't use free in the same way I do. Most of the artists that I talk to have either forgotten, or have never encountered, the idea of art truly free to the public. When I describe the ideas of public domain, copyright, licensing, etc. their eyes glaze over (you actually can see it over email!) and they inform me that they hate "lawyer talk".
Given your experience, maybe you can offer some insight here.
How do you appeal to an artist to take their hard work and donate it to the public and in a meaningfully legal way?
Subscription Model Adaptation (Score:2, Interesting)
Attracting/managing techies on a budget (Score:2, Interesting)
Just one question.... (Score:1)
Would Another Ibiblio Still Be Possible Today? (Score:1)
Given the way the dot-com bust has changed the Internet landscape, would something like Ibiblio still be possible today? How has the Internet changed since Ibiblio was created?
What do you think is the future of Web Publishing (Score:1)
thank you
Given the chance... (Score:1)