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Plastic Optical Fibre: Cheap and Bendy 242

Motivator_Bob writes: "The Sydney Morning Herald has an article on making optical fibres from plastic rather than the traditional glass."Advances in optical-fibre making at the Australian Photonics research centre could bring communications at the speed of light into Australian homes and businesses in the next few years. The advance - microstructured polymer optical fibres (MPOF) - allows the manufacture of optical fibres that are much smaller, cheaper, more rugged and easier to make than glass fibres..."
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Plastic Optical Fibre: Cheap and Bendy

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  • Who still uses glass? I think all the commericial stuff out there is already plastic. I mean who wants to splice fiber every 10ms because someone breathed on it wrong?

    news.recycle();
  • Dark Fibre? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Loki_1929 ( 550940 ) on Thursday September 05, 2002 @02:03PM (#4201726) Journal
    So let me get this straight; all the dark fibre we have in the states is now obsolete and therefore useless? Great, thanks, just checking.

    "Don't bother lighting it up now, boys, just chop it up good when we start laying the new stuff."

    • Re:Dark Fibre? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Spy Hunter ( 317220 ) on Thursday September 05, 2002 @02:11PM (#4201789) Journal
      No, all the dark fibre we have in the states may be lit up in the future because a cheaper new way of bridging the last mile has just been invented. There's no reason to replace already-installed fibre, it's not "obsolete".
    • Hey,

      So let me get this straight; all the dark fibre we have in the states is now obsolete and therefore useless? Great, thanks, just checking.

      "Don't bother lighting it up now, boys, just chop it up good when we start laying the new stuff."


      I don't think old fibre is obsolete, just there might be a new, cheaper fibre also availiable. Which will be useful, because there are many places that don't have fibre running to them, and running it is expensive. Like £200,000 per mile expensive.

      They may take our lives, but they will never take our FREEDOM!!!

      Given the current political situation, a more appropriate quote may be "They may take our freedom, but they will never take our LIVES!!!"

      Michael
      • "Given the current political situation, a more appropriate quote may be "They may take our freedom, but they will never take our LIVES!!!""

        It's getting better. Anyone catch Law and Order last night? An ex US military soldier tied up and killed an arab man who he had been tracking for a while. His defense? He was defending the lives of Americans against a terrorist. The more they looked into it, the more the dead man appeared to be a terrorist (tons of money from foreign accounts, talking in code on a pre-paid untraceable cell phone, etc). The jury eventually found him guilty after a stunningly brilliant cross-examination by the prosecutor, and an equally impressive closing by the same. Basically, he posed the question, "how much of our humanity are we willing to give up for the war on terrorism." He also made some wonderful remarks about how those who came before us preserved their ideals in the face of destruction (lest we forget that our enemies burned the White House and other buildings to the ground during the war of 1812), and that we shouldn't be the generation to succumb to fear. A very powerful and refreshing episode that brings hope to those who, like me, almost lost faith in the American peoples' love of freedom and democracy.

        My sig is a quote from the movie Braveheart. Anyone who has it on DVD should really listen to the speech he makes where that statement is called aloud. It's actually very relevant to the current struggle we face to have courage and could just as easily had been said by a great leader on Sept 12, 2001. If anyone's seen a great leader around lately, please let me know?

    • Re:Dark Fibre? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by The_Sock ( 17010 )
      I wanted to mod you down, but there is no option for "-1 Wrong". I sat and thought about this for a minute or two and here's the best I can come up with.

      Wrong answers generate a good number of responses... corrections and such. This adds more comments total to the article. This will drive up the average comments per article. Articles with higher number of comments will make more people read the comments. This could again lead to even more comments. The responses correcting the misinformation will generally be modded "+1 Informative" or left alone, not modded down (nor should they be). People will not mod you off topic, troll or flamebait, because you are none of the above, you are just plain wrong. This will appear to give a better the signal to noise ratio, as there are now alot more positively moderated or non-negatively moderated posts. I say appear because comments such as these, though not modded down, are noise. The responses, though correct, also shouldn't be her, making them noise as well.

      So we have: Appearance of a better signal to noise ratio, more comments per story, and more people reading these comments which equals more ad views and a higher chance of a click-through. These all looks better to advertisers and would be advertisers. This will lead to more ad clicks, and possibly better payout per ad click.

      Conclusion:

      The slashdot powers that be are purposefully leaving out the "-1 Wrong" moderation option to get more comments per story in order to generate more ad revenue.

      Now, as for you being moderated up... well.. Apparently there's also a moderator out there who is "-1 Wrong".
      • From the text of your post, I see three main points:

        First, I am wrong. Nevermind that the post was a semi-rant about the computer industry's annoying habit of replacing a product before it was used in the first place. And nevermind the fact that you never provide any evidence or reasoning, logical or otherwise, to dispute what I have said. Your arrogance is surpassed only by your paranoia, which brings me to the next point.

        Second, there is a massive conspiracy by the editors to make money. Now, I'm not Taco's accountant, but I don't think he's catching up to Bill Gates anytime soon thanks to slashdot. They may make questionable decisions from time to time, but the fact remains that they're maintaining a FREE website for our enjoyment. If you don't like it, go elsewhere. Until now, I would have difficulty naming a major mistake they've made with this site, but I now see the one huge mistake that has yet to be corrected: allowing you to moderate.

        Thirdly, the moderators who modded me up (there were two so far) are both wrong. Well, that's three people who are, according to you, wrong, and once again we have a statement of opinion made without the benefit of any supporting arguments.

        It must be nice to allow one's self to become so amazingly dillusional. Thank you, and you have a nice day! :)

  • by s20451 ( 410424 )

    Advances in optical-fibre making at the Australian Photonics research centre could bring communications at the speed of light into Australian homes and businesses in the next few years.

    Dammit, communicating over copper with electrical pulses is also at the speed of light (roughly). This is a painful but all-too-common misuse of terminology, confusing speed as in data rate with speed as in velocity. Damn marketing types.

    • Electrons don't flow thrugh coper at the speed of light, in fact it is much slower.
      • Correct, but the electrical field propagates through the copper at nearly the speed of light -- and the signal travels at the speed of the electrical field.
      • yeah, but it's like 76% the speed of light.
        I can't tell the difference! They both seem pretty damn fast to me! And I can't drive 55!
        • actually, electron flow through copper wire in a circuit is nowhere NEAR the speed of light. I think it's more like a few feet per second... I could look it up, but I'm lazy.
          I know it's not any kind of high velocity though.

          but it's the elctrical impulse that travels near the speed of light, not the electrons themselves.. think of six billiard balls lined up with 1mm of space between each one. You hit the first one, how long does it take for the impulse to travel? How far do the balls themselves actually move? Not related at all.
      • Electrons themselves don't, but the charge does...
      • Electrons dont flow at all through copper. Its a longitudinal wave. The electrons just pass the energy along from one to the other down the length of the wire.
        • Not at all correct, I'm afraid. The reason metal has the electrical properties it does is that some of the electrons can be passed easily from one outer shell to another. In fact, the free electrons can't really be said to be in any one atom's orbital.

          Therefore, when exposed to an electromotive force (voltage), the electrons do get pulled down along the wire. Because of impurities in the copper, they end up bouncing around like a ball in a pinball machine, and never achieve a high rate of speed (according to my physics teacher, the electrons themselves move along the wire at something akin to walking speed).

          However, in a superconductor, there's nothing for the electrons to bounce off, and they do achieve a significant fraction (80%?) of the speed of light. Which is approximately the speed at which the voltage itself moves. You can imagine it as an army of twenty million people in a long column. When they hear a whistle blow, they start walking. Every individual is moving at a very slow rate, yet the signal to move propagates down the column at the speed of sound.

          Does any of this help?
      • He said electrical impulses. And he's right.

        the change in the electric field propagates at near the speed of light through copper. The fact that the electrons themselves flow is more of a byproduct.

      • The impuse travels at 120-something miles per second vs 186 thousand miles per second for light.
  • Speed of light? (Score:1, Informative)

    by AirLace ( 86148 )
    "Advances in optical-fibre making at the Australian Photonics research centre could bring communications at the speed of light into Australian homes and businesses in the next few years."

    50 years after Einstein, and people still don't realise that the electrons in a piece of copper wire travel at the speed of light? In fact, as light in fibre optic cabling bounces off the insides of the plastic tubing, it takes a less direct route and thus technically has a _higher_ latency than copper wire.

    • Re:Speed of light? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by SkewlD00d ( 314017 ) on Thursday September 05, 2002 @02:16PM (#4201832)
      Single-mode fiber has a mixture of materials that have varying indices of reflection, so that the cable is a light guide instead of a light tunnel. This allows for a shorter path because the light is kept closer to the middle. Btw, the latency of copper is much, much greater than typical single or multimode fiber because of capacitive and inductive coupling. Fiber mainly has the advantage of higher bandwidth and noise immunity, but it wont ever reduce you ping beyond (distance / c).
      • Fiber mainly has the advantage of higher bandwidth and noise immunity, but it wont ever reduce you ping beyond (distance / c).
        Don't forget that the speed of light isn't c in the fiber. c is the speed of light in vacuum.
      • There's no inherent "latency" involved in copper wires, just lower bandwidth and higher noise due to interference and reflections. Signal propagation velocity in copper and fiber are actually quite similar, 0.6c to 0.8c depending on material. Fiber is often slower than copper in actual propagation velocity.

        link [networkmagazine.com] link [cmpnet.com] link [cabletesting.com]

    • Re:Speed of light? (Score:4, Informative)

      by luckbat ( 450567 ) on Thursday September 05, 2002 @02:18PM (#4201844) Homepage
      Unlike photons, electrons have mass. Nothing with mass moves at anything close to the speed of light.

      What is the speed of electrons down a copper wire? [sciencenet.org.uk]
      • Dude, you've just pissed off a whole heap of trek fans :\
      • Unlike photons, electrons have mass. Nothing with mass moves at anything close to the speed of light.

        Another poster correctly mentioned that the electrons don't move quickly, but the pulses do (as stated in the link you put up).

        Another point that needs to be made is that photons do have mass. The de Broglie equation holds for all energy (and matter is energy) which states that m*v*lambda=h where m is the mass, v is the velocity, lambda is the wavelength and h is Planck's constant (6.626E-34 J*s). That gives near infrared light (lambda = 400nm) a mass of about 5.52E-36 kg. For reference an electron's rest mass is 9.109E-31 kg.

        Bill
      • At least thats what they said in my telecoms course.

    • 50 years after Einstein, and people still don't realise that the electrons in a piece of copper wire travel at the speed of light?


      That's only one half of the truth. Although the electrons travel at almost lightspeed, they constantly change their direction back-and-forth, so if you could see a single alectron, it would appear to be traveling at about 3cm/second in (actually *on*) a copper wire.

    • 50 years after Einstein, and people still don't realise that the electrons in a piece of copper wire travel at the speed of light?

      Maybe that's because the electrons in a copper wire don't move anywhere near the speed of light - it's the wavefront produced by the electrons' motion that travels at or near c.
    • Re:Speed of light? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by theMightyE ( 579317 ) on Thursday September 05, 2002 @02:25PM (#4201889)
      >50 years after Einstein, and people still don't realise that the electrons in a piece of copper wire travel at the speed of light?

      I'll admit that I didn't do the math to re-check this, but I seem to remember the velocity of electrons in copper wire being on the order of a few cm/second - much less than the speed of light. The confusion my be coming from the fact that when you stick an extra electron in the end of an otherwise neutrally charged wire, the spare charge sets up an electrical field that pushes a different electron out the other end (assuming it's grounded or generally has another place to go to). It's the electrical field that travels at the speed of light, not the electrons themselves.

      >In fact, as light in fibre optic cabling bounces off the insides of the plastic tubing, it takes a less direct route and thus technically has a _higher_ latency than copper wire.

      Ummm.. not quite. It's true that the light bounces around inside the fiber, but due to the low index difference between the core of the fiber and it's surrounding cladding the angle of the bounce is pretty small and wouldn't really increase the distance the light needs to travel The distance increase is proportional to 1/cos[angle] so when the angle is near zero, cos[angle] is near 1 and 1/cos[angle] is pretty near 1 meaning no big change in the distance traveled by Joe Photon. For electrical wires, speed is limited by the capacitance/inductance ratio of the cable and is typically around 2-3 times slower than free-space light.

      All in all, it's a good thing that electrons don't go the speed of light in our house wiring - I used to work with a synchrotron, which is a device that gets the electrons moving at relativistic speeds, and whenever the beam of elecrons went around a corner it produced enough X-rays due to the angular acceleration to flash-fry a horse. Be glad that copper wire electrons are slow, since if they were fast we'd get cooked every time a bit of house wiring was anything less than perfectly straight.

  • The communication people want has been increasing from 56kbps a few years ago to 54Mbps now," Sceats says. "In five to 10 years we will talk about how to connect people up at 100-1000Mbps. That's what we need to prepare for.

    from 56k->54M is ~1000x speed. the "future" they are preparing for is only a 2-20x jump. I'd say they should prepare for 54Gbit connections to people's homes, but hey, whatever.

    at the same time, who here actually connects at 54Mbits, anyway?

    • It's for work only mind you. Multiple pipes running our web hosting network.

      Then again, I have no idea who could possibly need this for home use. Even watching multiple streamed digital feeds from AOL's new world order couldn't fill that need. In short- that's a helluva lot of pr0n.

      -Matt
    • No doubt ... I certainly don't, and a good number of businesses I work with don't, either. Considering a T1 at 1.5Mbps still sets you back between $500 and $1K a month, T3 lines (at 45Mbps) will set you back quite a bit more, I imagine (about 1-2 yrs ago, I heard a T3 would run you about $20K per month). I can't fathom what Rackspace must pay in monthly bandwidth fees for the 3 OC-12s, an OC-3 and a DS-3, which they try to keep at 60% bandwidth utilization (or so). Christ.
    • I have 100Mbps. At home. For about EUR 10 per month, IIRC. One of the benefits of uni housing...:)
  • The reason for the "don't bend the fiber" rule isn't that glass is fragile. Glass is very elastic and therefore very "bendy" in small diameters (think of fiberglass). The reason for the rule is because of how internal reflections (which is what fiber optics depends on) works. Basically the laser has to hit the inside surface of the glass fiber at a smallish angle called "Brewster's angle". (Think of looking at reflections in a puddle--as you get closer your angle increases and the reflection suddenly disappears).

    This plastic optics fiber must have a higher index of refraction than glass, which increases Brewster's angle, which increases the amount of bend allowed before the signal is lost. This is no biggie, technologically speaking. The only reason it hasn't been done before is cost. Glass is very cheap and we know how to make thin strands of it already.

    • Learn some science? (Score:5, Informative)

      by stevenj ( 9583 ) <stevenj@al[ ]mit.edu ['um.' in gap]> on Thursday September 05, 2002 @03:21PM (#4202285) Homepage
      Was the subject line supposed to be ironic? Brewster's angle is a specific angle at which the reflections for one polarization are zero. (That is why you use polarized sunglasses...reflections off of water, ice, etcetera will tend to be mostly polarized perpendicular to the ground, so filtering that out cuts the glare.)

      The relevant quantity in fibers is the critical angle, beyond which all light is reflected inside the higher-index core. (Actually, the whole ray-optics picture is not completely accurate for fibers with features, like the core size, comparable to the wavelength...but it's qualitatively the right idea.) (Which, by the way, has nothing to do with the reflection disappearing from the puddle, since that is a reflection into the lower-index medium, air. The puddle effect has more to do with your shadow blocking the light.)

      Note also, by the way, that it's not so much that the index of the polymer fiber core has been increased, its that the effective index of the cladding is decreased (by adding lots of thin holes/veins, hence the name microstructured fiber). And you can do the same thing with glass fibers [ofsoptics.com]. (Because of the higher effective contrast, you can confine light more tightly and e.g. enhance nonlinear effects.

      (You were on the right track that it's the bending light loss, and the advantage therein of higher index contrast, that the article was referring to.)

      Microstructuring can also go in the other direction to photonic crystal fibers [bath.ac.uk] and guiding light in air [omni-guide.com].)

  • Cost of broadband? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Jobe_br ( 27348 ) <bdruth.gmail@com> on Thursday September 05, 2002 @02:06PM (#4201757)

    Interesting quote:

    It's all about getting these big fat pipes that were laid in North America to people who want broadband - and real broadband, not the wussy broadband people are marketing at the moment.

    Maybe I'm just naive (probably), but the limiting factor today for broadband Internet access is the cost of the bandwidth, possibly due to the stranglehold a few key companies have on access to their backbones. The cable that comes into my house can be used for speeds in excess of 30Mbps, if I recall correctly, yet I have a mere 1.5-2Mbps (at $39.95/mo). Admittedly, DSL has technical limitations on speed, but even so, the large limiting factor seems to be the cost of an OC-12/48/96 connection to the 'Net, right?

    When is that gonna change?!? What is needed to bring about that change? Regulation?

    • on the other hand (Score:4, Interesting)

      by GunFodder ( 208805 ) on Thursday September 05, 2002 @02:33PM (#4201956)
      I just read that telecoms have an excess of long haul bandwidth, which means that the issues are the cost of the last mile and consumer uptake.

      I wouldn't be surprised if the main issue is the latter. I have spent some time trying to convince one of my coworkers at a major computer hardware company to get broadband, but he doesn't think he needs it. The uses of broadband are not necessarily obvious if you don't have it.

      I also read that several telecoms will try to address this issues by selling capped broadband at a lower price.
      • I just read that telecoms have an excess of long haul bandwidth, which means that the issues are the cost of the last mile and consumer uptake.

        Yes it's the lack of the "last mile" - and content worth paying for its instalation.

        Lots of spare fiber (and empty conduit) was laid when the trenches were open, so most of it is dark. Boxes were bought to light up a few fibers, and even when they're all lit we can bump the speed to get a few more powers of two before stringing more long-haul.

        But the network speeds and capacities of the first boxes were calculated using what turned out to be Netcom's overstatement of the rate of growth of the internet's bandwidth. For the last 5 or so years it was only doubling, rather than multiplying by 10.

        Doubling every year is no slouch for a growth rate, but it's only about 1/3,125 the traffic the designers of the equipment and networks were planning for at this point. (It was 1/125 at the time of the dotcom bubble burst. Maybe some of those dotcoms WOULD have been profitable if the customer base they'd been told to expect actually existed?)

        So there's a bandwidth price war at the wholesale level, telecoms folding up as debts come due without revenue to pay them, and equipment suppliers having a REALLY hard time selling any more stuff.

        But with the CLECs pretty much all dead, the ILECs and cable companies (with the pre-installed base) have a virtual duopoly on the last mile. So there's no incentive to push cheap fat pipes into your hands. (Markets need THREE suppliers before competition starts driving costs toward price of production. With only two they'd be cutting their own throats to try to cut each others'.)

        So there's no cheap last mile bandwidth. But there's virtually no high-bandwith content available to make it worth peoples' while to buy expensive last-mile bandwidth:

        - CARP killed "internet radio".
        - The RIAA killed Napster, is killing its clones, and finally going after individuals.
        - The RIAA and MPAA are scared spitless of allowing any of their members' digital content on the net, for fear of piracy.

        So what does that leave Joe Sixpack that will convince him to pay enough extra for high-speed internet that it's profitable to dig up his street and give him a fiber? Better animated popup ads? Most of the rest of the net is more than adequate at moderate speeds.

        High-speed internet will be here as soon as there's a "killer app" requiring high-bandwidth that's popular enough to fund a new last-mile deployment, or a cheap-enough last-mile solution is found to be price-competitive with cable and ILEC-based DSL.
        • You have good points in there, and the fact of the matter is that the 'competitors' out there laying curbside fiber aren't just giving you internet. They're selling you your telephone lines, over fiber, and your cable TV over fiber too. All with one monthly bill to replace your cable your internet and your phone bill.
          This is the model that is working for fiber, and you're right only someone looking to offer competition can really do this. The bells have huge burried copper loops in triple redundancy, that they don't even want other companies to have access to. They'd have to abandon all that infrastructure to go to fiber to the home, and you still need to install a converter to allow analog telephones to use the fiber optics for telephone service. The cable company has the same situation with it's coaxial network.
          Still, fiber to the home will get cheaper because of this, and the bells and the cable companies will die a slow painful death because of small start up fiber all-in-one service companies, well, the bells won't go under, since the startups will all be customers of theirs. but cable companies that aren't prepared to adapt will watch as their market share slips lower and lower.
    • DOCSIS cable has a theoretical maximum of ~45mbps downstream (non-shared) and ~11mbps upstream (shared). This sort of speed will seldom be seen outside the lab, of course, but real world performance should meet or exceed the 20mbps mark downstream.

      This sort of speed will not be used until people start delivering video on demand through it. Look for this to show up in set top boxes within the next few years.

      Incidentally the reason AT&T bought cable companies is so that they could provide the following services, all over one fat piece of coaxial cable:

      • Cable Television
      • Internet Access
      • Local Phone Service
      • Long Distance Phone Service
      • Video on Demand

      Whether anyone will actually do wide-rollout video on demand is up for debate, and has been for a long time. With DOCSIS, however, the technology is certainly there.

      Consider PACE's STB based on Cisco's CM reference design. It contains an MPEG2 decoder (for doing digital cable), a DOCSIS CM, and a cute little computer. It also has a smart card slot, and a RJ45 providing ethernet out the back. All you would have to add to this is a little bit of hardware for IP Telephony (namely a sound card and POTS isolation hardware) and you would have everything you needed to carry out the above tasks. The STB itself can be used to surf the internet, hence it should be able to do IP Telephony (with the above hardware) without any trouble.

  • Is this how they got "time" to bend around corners in the explosion in the movie, Time Machine?

    I still have no clue who thought of the idea of time being fluid...

  • ...real broadband, not the wussy broadband people are marketing at the moment.

    Yeah, I don't want some wussy 300Mbps broadband. Where's my 10GB/s? This flexible fiber, according to the article, can cut the cost to lay last mile fiber. It's about time. Now, if we can only get an ISP to offer the service at that speed...
    • Precisely ... it'll be *so* nice to have fiber-optics to my house (and even wired *in* my house) and still only get a measly 2Mbps to the 'Net. I think what we'll find happening in the next 5-10 yrs, though, is having differing levels of speed based on geography.

      For instance, homes will be outfitted with particularly high-bandwidth mediums (to stream video from TiVo to TiVo, etc). Then, connections within your neighborhood, community, town will be the next level of bandwidth, as you stay within your local 'Net (so accessing the local newspaper, TV stations, gov't., etc. will be real quick). Then, access to state-wide and nation-wide services will be the next level, as your connection has to traverse the various backbones to get where its going. Finally, access to global resources will be the last level, as you have to traverse intercontinental (trans-pacific/trans-atlantic) connections (satellite, ocean-bed fiber, etc.)

      As the contention for a connection increases, based on the number of folks who would potentially want to access it (less folks want to access local community resources than sites such as CNN or Reuters), the bandwidth experienced will necessarily decrease, right?
  • But it occurse to me that plastics are not yet to the point where you could put nearly as many modes through as traditional fiber..
    • Well, that's not really the point. The point is that this type of FO is much better suited to domestic applications, and applications where using glass FO is not practical (ie: running through conduits not designed for FO). This doesn't look like it's aimed at replacing backbones, but nore like last-mile technology.
  • by brogdon ( 65526 ) on Thursday September 05, 2002 @02:13PM (#4201813) Homepage
    Exec 1: Gee guys, with this cheaper fiber, we could roll out much better speeds than what we get on the copper we use now!

    Execs #2 & #3: Woo-hoo, that'll really help us get a leg up on the competition!

    Exec #1: Oh, wait... We don't have any competition. We don't have to share our lines with anyone, so no one else can get their foot in the door here. I guess we'll have to bonus our expansion money out to ourselves, instead.

    Exec #2 (holding plastic fiber up to his eye) : Hey, Dick, I think I can see you through this thing. Neato. Somebody get me a martini.

  • Like I can really get excited about this. I live 52,800 feet from my telco. My copper twisted-pair is so bad going through repeaters that my software modem doesn't even recognize a dial tone. I bought an expensive hardware modem and after disabling all of the "nifty" 56k features I can usually connect at 21.6kbps.

    When will (non-lagged via satellite) broadband come to the rest of us?

    • Sorry, but there's not much of a chance of that happening. The mean path of ground-to-ground satellite communication is really long. you'd have fixed latency of 100-200ms MINIMUM because information cannot travel faster than the speed of light, 3x10^8 m/s roughly. Unless we find a way to polarize tacyons, information doesn't want to go faster than light, because then you could potentially send messages into the past.
      • With LEO sats, you could get that down to something more reasonable. My current satellite service gets minimum 600ms latency real world, in geostationary orbit, 35,000km or so up. LEO sats can be much much lower, 300-800km. At LEO, the latency is no longer an issue, in fact, you might get better latency than land lines under some circumstances!
  • by JTFritz ( 15573 )
    Dammit... I saw cheap and bendy and thought this was a Natalie Portman story. timothy, I rate you a -1 OffTopic!
  • The article mentions that the new fiber can bend more than traditional fiber optics... does that mean that it can bend past the critical angle for the material? With the traditional fiber optics the fiber would snap before reaching the critical angle so you are assured that the light will not leave the fiber channel because the fiber would physically break before you could bend it that far. If the new fibers can be bent past the material's critical angle then stupid human errors can occur and cause problems.
    • but it's not true. You can bend traditional glass fiber well beyond the point where all refraction is lost and your signal vanishes.. well before it snaps.

      Maybe on really old fiber.. but any sample I've seen in the last 10 years, it's been easy to bend it far enough to lose your signal without harming the fiber one bit.
  • ...given this announcement [cbsnews.com] that people ought to get more fiber...
  • In an unrelated story, the price of Cu falls on world markets.
  • The big problem with POF has always been that it has higher loss and dispersion than glass. Until those are solved POF is still going to be limited to very short distances.
    • I have heard studies quoted that 95% of the 10Gbps ports will be for links 2km. And IIRC, more than half will be 600m. So for all the LAN, WAN, and even Metro area stuff, and for the "last mile" it sounds like this POF stuff may be just fine. Maybe they can just blow these "fishing lines" down the sewer pipes if it is cheap enough.
  • A hair's breadth from changing thee world

    Advances N optical-fibre making @ thee Australian
    Photonics research centre could bring communications @
    thee speed uv light into Australian homes and
    businesses N thee next few years.

    Thee centre holds patents over a new way 2 make
    optical fibres using plastic polymers instead uv thee
    traditional silicon-based glass. (A polymer iz a big
    molecule composed uv many smaller molecules strung N
    long, repeating chains. Examples R DNA, proteins,
    rubber, rayon and plastics.)

    Thee advance - microstructured polymer optical fibres
    (MPOF) - allows thee manufacture uv optical fibres
    that R much smaller, cheaper, more rugged and easier 2
    make than glass fibres because, N part, they don't
    need thee added weight uv protective coatings.

    Australian Photonics CEO Mark Sceats says thee new
    plastic fibres R about thee width uv a human hair and
    can turn through 90 degrees much more readily than
    glass fibres. thee technology recently won thee
    excellence-N-innov8shun award from telecomms magazine
    CommsWorld.

    Thee fibre's lower cost also makes it attractive 2
    networking vendors who can replace copper coaxial
    networks used N most buildings and homes. Optical
    fibres will boost transmission speeds by several
    orders uv magnitude, from 100Mbps 2 gigabits a second,
    Sceats sez. Plastic-based optical fibres may also
    permit carriers 2 jump thee curb, bridging thee last
    hurdle 2 take high-speed 2-way Internet from thee
    street 2 thee home instead uv using thee slower hybrid
    fibre-coaxial (HFC) cable.

    "Thee communication people want has been increasing
    from 56kbps a few years ago 2 54Mbps now," Sceats
    says. "N five 2 10 years we will talk about how 2
    connect people up @ 100-1000Mbps. That's what we need
    2 prepare for."
    Carriers would no longer have 2 build huge trenches 2
    lay fibre, he says, when a connection thee width uv a
    fishing line would suffice.

    Thee global downturn N telecommunications and IT works
    2 Australia's advantage if we keep our eye on thee big
    prize once a recovery occurs, he says.
    "We shouldn't underestim8 thee amount uv capital we
    will have 2 invest 2 B a player N these gaymes. That's
    why getting N early enables us 2 scale up
    manufacturing 2 a very high volume."

    A problem thee industry faces iz an inability 2 get
    test beds N place 2 prove thee technology, he says.
    Also, it's not enough 2 B a research centre for
    overseas companies, because @ thee first sign uv a
    rocky economy, cuts R more likely 2 B made here then
    close 2 a US or European headquarters.

    "Now iz thee time 2 pump money n2 R&D. Because uv thee
    time it takes 2 get 2 market, we have 2 B well
    positioned 2 catch thee next wave. Its all about
    getting these big fat pipes that were layed N North
    America 2 people who want broadband - and real
    broadband, not thee wussy broadband people R marketing
    @ thee moment."
  • Fast Enough? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by RhettLivingston ( 544140 ) on Thursday September 05, 2002 @02:33PM (#4201953) Journal

    Plastic? They don't say what the top expected speed is, but historically, its not been good.

    The rollout of a fiber infrastructure costs big bucks. Usually, infrastructure is amortized over a 50 year period. Assuming a two-fold increase in speed need every 18 months (we used to follow that curve in actual deployed technologies, but have fallen off lately thanks to the telcos and cable companies getting their hooks in), and assuming 1 MBaud is needed today though I'd say its more, the needs 50 years for now would be in the area of 1MB * 2^33. I'd say that's realistic as I'd like to be able to do things like have my computer record and analyze continuously the output of multiple 3D remote cameras.

    Even glass falls short of that with today's technology, but at least gets closer and holds the possibility that advances in drivers and receivers over that time could get us there.

    Short sighted infrastructure rollouts are already killing us. Let's hope the mistake that has been made with DSL (rolling out XDSL instead of ADSL and not having clear paths to go to step through HDSL and VDSL in 18 month increments) is learned from. Infrastructure rollouts MUST plan for the distant future.


  • I have a battery-operated toy that uses 'wires' made of plastic to transmit light.

    I got it at the Smurf-Capades like 18 years ago!
  • Not so quick (Score:5, Insightful)

    by r_j_prahad ( 309298 ) <r_j_prahad@NOSpAM.hotmail.com> on Thursday September 05, 2002 @02:40PM (#4201995)
    The cost of the actual fibre is only incidental, so I hope nobody is thinking this will put broadband into their home overnight. Compare the cost of 100 metres of fibre with the cost of ripping up 100 metres of paved roadways and then putting it all back together again.

    When our town put some fibre in for a new government centre they decided to double the number from what was specified in the bid but the cost only went up something like 2 percent.
    • The pain with fiber even when you're not ripping the roads up is ending the stuff. Some guys are pretty good and fast at it, but compared to copper (crimp to RJ45s or punch to 110 panel) its time-consuming, complicated and fragile.

      If they could come up with more sturdy fibers that'd be great, but a new ending system would be even better. Like maybe some kind of connector with a built-in solvent that would melt the jacket but not the fiber and then cure to hold the connector onto the cable.

    • (I haven't read the article, but...)

      2 percent is a whole lot of money for a nationwide change.

      But more to the point, if this stuff is tough/cheap enough, it's definitely not dangerous, so there's no reason they'd need to put it underground. It's not conductive. They could duct-tape/staple it to the power line.

      But, the thing is... I thought the actual cost of the glass was already inconsequential when compared to the cost of the interface at each end of the cable. Whether or not they've got some neat new cheap way to replace the light conductor, weren't the ends of the cable more expensive? I could be wrong. I've been wrong before.

      Eh. Iduno. I think we need some wireless ethernet card maker to ship a wifi card with some dark silicon. Then once there's a million users, give everyone an update that lights up the cards and co-opts the analog TV spectrum. No one would be able to use their TVs, and the company would get bootfucked by the FCC, but we'd have our nationwide ad hoc wireless 30mbit network. Hehe. And then we'd never have to pay for bacon again, with all those flying pigs.
    • Re:Not so quick (Score:3, Informative)

      by Drakula ( 222725 )
      It's not so much that the fiber is cheaper but that the sources are significantly cheaper.

      DWDM laser = a few thousand

      POF source = a few hundred

      Also, LEDs can be used with POF. These sources are only a few dollars once mass produced.

      As far as application goes, the main place you would see POF is local area network .Due to the large dispersion and loss of POF, keeping from long distance communications. Therefore it is unlikely that anyone would rip the roads for POF.
      • Exactly. POF with LEDs could potantially be the next generation ethernet at much lower prices than CAT5 cabling. Unless of course some sort of high-speed wireless technology takes over the marketplace first.
    • That is the reason why an (initially) signifiganly more expensive polymer plasic fiber line that can bend 90 Degrees, and doesn't require being burried to operate is such a Good Thing. You can add a simple braided steel line to the outside of this thing and hang it from the power poles. You will No longer be required to bury the fiber optics to make them work, because they can bend 90 degress, which is a lot more than they're going to experience hanging from power or telephone poles. It also allows for the lines to bend around corners so you don't need expensive repeaters at every bend of the installation.
  • Somewhere in a box I have ten meters of jacketed fiber optic bundle, which I bought three or four years ago for a project where I wanted to pipe light over short distances. (The project never got done of course.) The fiber optic bundle was surplus material, and the fibers are plastic. I'm not sure what kind of plastic--that's how it is with surplus.

    Anyway, am I to take it that these plastic fibers are inferior to glass in some way? In transparency, perhaps? Or maybe they absorb in near-infrared wavelengths: glass and especially quartz (or fused silica rather) are far superior to most plastics in transmission of light in the 8000 to 20000 angstrom range.

    hyacinthus.


  • 2 years ago it costs approx.$1500 to set up an ISDN line in a clients office. thats 128k both directions.

    today I just set up another client with two officed about 50 miles from each other with a T1 in both offices plus 6 voice lines each. one T1 is 256 the other 512. plus 16 IP's e-mail and such. If I were to call the local phone company and request this service I would be paying upwards of $1500 however with another company using the same exact lines as teh local company they can do it for $600 a month. why ? simple price fixing companies will always stretch technology as long as people are willing to pay. So even if all this wonderful fiber is available commercially I doubt companies will be willing to provide it to homes. keep in mind this involves trenching all over again. A more realistic option will be wireless with fiber running to each transmition point.
  • by Lumpy ( 12016 ) on Thursday September 05, 2002 @03:11PM (#4202201) Homepage
    Until we get the internet it's self running in gigabit (1000megabit or better) and have buttloads of bandwidth out there ala the full scale release and switch to Internet2 and ipv6, and replace all the routing and switching gear to the new gigibit or higher stuff it means nothing.. too many people are spoiled with T1 or better speeds into their homes while many many businesses have a 256-512 Kbit connection MAX due to the huge costs with a real net connection. (that is approx $1000.00 a month.. with yout fractional T1 and ISP access costs...)

    fiber into the home.... WHY? is it needed? no.. will it be needed ? not for at least 10-15 years. and it wont be useful to anyone for a lot longer than that. The cost of laying fiber is not the cost of the fiber... it's the cost of directional boring or the manual labor to install it... regular old "expensive" glass fiber is dirt cheap. and most places lie down 24 or 48 count fiber when they only need 1 or 2 of them.. as the cost difference is minimal. (plus you can make gobs of cash selling the dark to other companies)

    Plastic fiber is a neat idea ... but I doubt that it will impact the costs of the fiber it's self, termination or maintaince.
    • Internet2
      >>>>>
      He he. Hopefully I'll be out of college by then. I actually kinda enjoy the 300K+ per second I get whenever I connect to someone else on Internet2. Wonder what'll happen to the speed when other people get on :(
    • Television over IP. and Voice calls with acceptable lag-time. I think its audio/video that will drive high bandwidth networks. The PC will become the multimedia center of the home - TVs will be obsolete, and they'll need major bandwith.
    • Fiber to the home is needed now. I would much rather have all of my services such as phone, internet, and cable comgin over one pipe. This would require more bandwitdh than you can get over a coax cable, I beleive anyway.
  • ...in the headline, I thought it was an article about legislators that can get laws passed for you.
  • As we all know, innovations in technology are picked up first by the adult industry. That said, perhaps this will allow inexpensive high-resolution cameras that can fit into "tight places" ?
  • Considering that singlemode silica fiber is already flexible enough to wrap around a pencil continuously without breaking, I don't know how much more flexible it needs to be.

    Maybe they're putting into layman's terms the new fiber's lessened susceptibility to attenuation due to bending. Modern fiber attenuates horribly if bent to less then (as a general rule) twenty times the outside diameter.

    The upside of this is that if your signal is too high, a proper level is only a pen and some scotch tape away.
  • I read somewhere the notion of making fiber out of hemp plastics. Not to mention just about anything else. ;)

    Cheers, Joshua

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