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KDE League .... Inc. No Longer? 103

Posted by chrisd from the good-desktop-regardless dept.
An anonymous reader writes "The corporate status of the KDE League, Inc., was revoked earlier this year by the Delaware Secretary of State when it failed to file necessary papers and pay fees, according to this report in Linux and Main. In addition, the organization seems to have overlooked financial disclosures that are supposed to be made public under federal law. And asked about it, the KDE League's chairman, Andreas Pour, refused to comment." Update: You can read a statement from Andreas here that explains what's going on. Thanks to Thomas Zander for the update.
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KDE League .... Inc. No Longer? More

KDE League .... Inc. No Longer?

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  • How dare The Delaware Secretary of State!! (Score:4, Funny)

    by Zapdos ( 70654 ) on Saturday October 05, 2002 @07:44AM (#4392794)
    Try to change the default way that KDE League, Inc does paperwork.

  • I bet... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Dethboy ( 136650 ) on Saturday October 05, 2002 @07:50AM (#4392800) Homepage
    The Delaware folks are Gnome fans...
    • I'm from Delaware, and am deffinatly a gnome fan, but a switch with every release. Kde1, then gnome 1.4, then kde2, then kde3, now gnome 2.

  • Bash Bash (Score:3, Funny)

    by Alsee ( 515537 ) on Saturday October 05, 2002 @07:51AM (#4392805) Homepage
    The corporate status of the KDE League, Inc., was revoked earlier this year by the Delaware Secretary of State when it failed to file necessary papers and pay fees

    Now if only Microsoft would forget to file some paperwork and pay a few fees.

    -
  • I'm so embarrassed for KDE I'm going to have to stop using it...Oh, wait...I'm using RedHat 8.0...It really isn't KDE anymore anyway...Nevermind...

  • Sad news... KDE League found dead :( (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I just heard the sad news on talk radio. [linuxandmain.com] KDE League Inc. nonprofit corporation was found dead. Even if you didn't understand how the League was really supporting KDE, there's no denying its contributions to the promotion and development of free software. Truly an Open Source Icon.

  • KDE (Score:1, Insightful)

    by SabberFlapper ( 533942 )
    Why don't they register as a German Verein? Like KDE e.V.? I think that would cause less trouble with bureaucracy.

  • Um.. (Score:2, Interesting)

    by ATAMAH ( 578546 )
    So what happened to the KDE League, an organization that at one point reportedly had more than $100,000 in its coffers

    A new company. New money. _Las Vegas_. Yeah...what in the world could have happened...

  • This is the most outrageous crap you have come up (Score:1, Troll)

    by Anonymous Coward
    This is the most outrageous crap you have come up with for a long time dep. It is quite normal to let a body lapse if the members lose interest as most groups and individuals have in this type of organisation since the dot.coms and Ximian.
    Or do you think that Dre should fork out a $1000 of his own money to keep the shell going of an organisation that he is a member of?

    I myself let an organisation lapse when the members got tired of it, it is a normal everyday occurence and it is no wonder all these volounteer just give up with muck rakers like you around who try to turn nothing into a crime just because Dre has beat you in so many debates and the kde community rejected you because of the type of person you are.
    We could write the same crap about you; Slashdot.org is just a $2 shelf company with no bricks and mortar.

    You Sir are a disgrace to the human race.

  • Oh god.. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by fault0 ( 514452 ) on Saturday October 05, 2002 @08:04AM (#4392828) Homepage Journal
    In better news, KDE 3.1 beta2 is out!

    Anyways, the KDE league is and was never tied to KDE itself. KDE does not tie itself to any particular commercial groups (except KDE e.V.).

    So, if the KDE league is really down, it doesn't hurt KDE either way. In the end, open source software goes on. I'd like a comment from Dre (Andreas Pour), before I jump to any conclusions.

    I reserve this trust in him because he's always done a phenominal job as one of the KDE project's PR guys.

    • Dre's comments [was Re:Oh god..] (Score:4, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 05, 2002 @08:14AM (#4392840)
      You want a comment from Dre:

      here it is [kde.org]

      The story is just more LinuxAndMain FUD about KDE
    • And Dre said... nothing you idiots!
      Dre's dead, he's locked in my basement! (Ha-ha!)
    • If KDE league was never actually tied to KDE, what exactly do their share in common besides the name, or is it just the name?

      I've not heard of the league before. From the article it seems they were something like a KDE publicity group that never did a lot of what they said they would?

      Please don't flame me, I have nothing against the league or KDE, this is just my interpretation of what I read in the article
      • Disclaimer: this is my very subjective opinion.
        If KDE league was never actually tied to KDE, what exactly do their share in common besides the name, or is it just the name?


        I've not heard of the league before. From the article it seems they were something like a KDE publicity group that never did a lot of what they said they would?

        My interpretation of events are as follows: back in 2000, several companies got together and formed the GNOME Foundation in order to promote GNOME. Tensions were still running a little high back in those days between the GNOME and KDE camps, and a knee-jerk reaction was to create the KDE League. And that is pretty much the end of the story. Besides the little Google incident, the KDE League pretty well disappeared off the face of the net. In my opinion, KDE doesn't really need a foundation or league or whatever to promote it; it does a fine job of promoting itself just by putting out good stuff. And that seems to be the opinion of most people within KDE, given the amount of attention that has been paid to the KDE League since.
        :Peter

  • ha (Score:1)

    by mikkado ( 535011 )
    Andreas Pour...
    No wonder he's out of money
  • It's an evil plot by the Legion Of Gnome.

  • Comment from dre himself: (Score:5, Insightful)

    by fault0 ( 514452 ) on Saturday October 05, 2002 @08:23AM (#4392863) Homepage Journal
    Posted on the kde-core-devel list:
    I think it clears everything up. The kde-league is *not* dead. The website, linuxandmain, just seemed to have jumped the gun a bit before getting a serious comment from Andreas Pour.

    And life and KDE goes on..

    List: kde-core-devel
    Subject: Re: What has happened to the KDE League?
    From: Andreas Pour
    Date: 2002-10-05 7:34:38
    [Download message RAW]

    Shawn Gordon wrote:
    >
    > http://www.linuxandmain.com/modules.php?name=News& file=article&sid=247
    >
    > Is this true?

    Parts of it. As to the dissolution issue, that is something that needs to be
    straightened out with the League's lawyers, who are supposed to be handling
    this, undoubtedly some clerical mix-up. However, as dep wrote to me in a
    private e-mail (so he knows this), and as is the case, this is easily remedied
    and virtually inconsequential.

    As to the supposed IRS from, since theKompany.com was briefly a member, you
    should know that the League is not a non-profit but rather a not-for-profit and
    hence need not file the forms.

    As to the website, it's hosted on a server that experienced hardware failure and
    should be back up early next week.

    As to the finances, that is not something for me to disclose. The League as a
    corporation cannot release its financial statements without approval of the
    members, and that approval has not occurred. That came out in the threads which
    were selectively quoted, IIRC, but the piece seems to be just another malicious
    KDE attack by a website well versed in those matters.

    > If it is true then the League is beyond a colossal failure,

    It certainly is not.

    > it is also engaging in illegal activity.

    Sorry?

    > KDE really needs to get some
    > spokes people together and have something in place to handle this kind of
    > fall out. I wonder if this post will even make it through Dre's filters on me.

    What filter?

    Ciao,

    Dre
    • As for the website in question itself (linuxandmain), I don't think the website is trying to put down KDE itself. The main guy behind it, dep (Dennis E. Powell), is a KDE user, and has been a participant in the KDE community for a while. So, as for Andreas saying that the comments come from a website prone to attacking KDE, this is not true.

      Linuxandmain is a great website for getting linux related news. Usually, the articles are well written, even if some guest essays are full of FUD, but then again, anyone can reply to the guest essays with essays of their own.

      </rant>
      • dep called the whole KDE project a bunch of nazis. This is why he uses GNOME now, because it's American. What an asshole.
        • Perhaps better post the link proving it [linuxandmain.com] too.
          • He himself didn't call the whole KDE project a bunch of nazi's. He just said that an outsider perusing the kde-cafe mailing list might just view it that way.

            I happen to agree with him, especially from the fact that some people who posted used kde.org emails. Anyways, why does the kde-cafe exist anyways? It seems that most of it is just political jabbering that can go on in many other places. Why does it have to be affiliated with the KDE project? I think that any non-KDE related posts should be banned from any KDE-sponsored lists, but that's just my opinion.
            • So some people used their kde.org email to utter some private opinions. This doesn't make it the opinion of KDE independent of any interpretation. And the list is not sponsored by KDE, it kind of was but moved.

    • He's not just spinning this! (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I work for a company which has been subject to "administrative dissolution" for failure to make timely filings and fee payments. The only reason I even know this is that I'm the one who failed to file the forms :) Technically, we did not exist for almost a year, but the snafu was easily corrected by making the filing and paying late fees. We continued business as usual for the whole length of our ontological haitus. There were no bad consequences beyond a trip to the Secretary of State's office and a $20 late fee. I therefore find the implications of this "story" ridiculous, and Dre's response very reasonable.

    • Re:Comment from dre himself: (Score:5, Informative)

      by AIXadmin ( 10544 ) on Saturday October 05, 2002 @11:49AM (#4393526) Homepage
      A few corrections to assumptions by Dre:

      1. The IRS makes no distinction between not-for-profit and non-profit. THe former is really just a more accurate term to describe a 501(c) organization. Any organization that doesn't make a profit is eventually going to go under without constant investment.

      2. Any not-for-profit has to make available within 24 hours of the request a copy of there form 990 which details things like the top 5 highest paid employees, and a high level overview of there finances. If that is not furnished then requestor can file a complaint with the IRS.

      3. The IRS tends to scrutinize not-for-profits more then regular corporations. Better be carefull.

      Cheers, from a guy who has founded a not-for-profit corporation after six months of exhaustive research on the subject.
      • Not-for-profit and Non-profit organizations are very different. Non-profit can usually be seen as charities like Save The Rainforest or UNICEF, and are 501(c). Not-for-profit are corporations like NPR (public radio) or PBS. 501's are more heavily regulated than Not-for-profit.

  • oh no! (Score:4, Funny)

    by gr8fulnded ( 254977 ) on Saturday October 05, 2002 @08:24AM (#4392865)
    The corporate status of the KDE League, Inc., was revoked earlier this year
    In a press release, KDE employees stated: "Ah Krap!"

  • As a Delaware Resident.... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Aquitaine ( 102097 ) <sam@iamsa m . o rg> on Saturday October 05, 2002 @10:01AM (#4393136) Homepage
    To Whom It May Concern,

    Please convey my/our heartfelt apologies to the KDE League for this mix up. As many of you are aware, many corporations are headquartered in Delaware due to our tax laws and court system. This creates a burden on Delaware residents. In fact it creates a burden on all three Delaware residents. Just yesterday, I was talking with Ed, and he was trying his damndest (as usual) to attract a fourth resident, and he thought that some Linux news might be a good idea, since 'maybe we could get Delaware slashdotted,' and I had to remind him that Delaware already serves an honorable place in Slashdot as the dot.

    We were further upset recently when we realized that our third resident, the governor, had died in 1973.

    In closing, please accept the apologies of Ed and myself on behalf of the great state of Delaware -- the first state to sign the Constitution and the state that nearly everyone has 'driven through on the way to visit their parents.'

  • Seems reasonable (Score:3, Interesting)

    by IGnatius T Foobar ( 4328 ) on Saturday October 05, 2002 @11:59AM (#4393564) Homepage Journal
    Let me start off by saying that I am a KDE user; I prefer it strongly over GNOME.

    However, there's no FUD in this article. We all would like to know what happened to the KDE League. It simply disappeared. The fact is, while the GNOME Foundation actually got together and formed a consortium, and produced results (look at how much Sun's involvement did, for example), the KDE League appeared out of nowhere as a sort of "me too" thing, and then disappeared just as fast.

    KDE is a terrific desktop. I use it every day, at home and at work. But the fact of the matter is, KDE is a "cathedral" project. Most people who have observed its development have arrived at this conclusion.

  • Delaware Franchise Tax Report (Score:3, Informative)

    by jck2000 ( 157192 ) on Saturday October 05, 2002 @12:07PM (#4393601)
    A Delaware franchise tax report is is a blue slip of paper about 8.5 inches wide and 4 inches high. Every year a Delaware corporation is required to complete the report by filling in the names of the company's officers, its address and the number and par value of its authorized shares (e.g., "the corporation is authorized to issue up to 1000 shares of common stock, par value $0.01 per share") -- that's about it. The franchise tax is computed based on the aggregate par value of the common stock (in my example, $10 = 1000 x $0.01). The franchise tax is _not_ an income tax and the report does not require reporting of a company's income or activities. The franchise tax assessible on even a large corporation is relatively modest -- this is one of the reasons Delaware is a desireable state to charter a corporation. As the Linux and Main article itself (which was a real hachet job) said, the KDE League's franchise tax owed was $20.

    Forgetting to file a franchise tax report is a very common error. The Delaware Secretary of State's office sends the report form to the last known address, and if the address of the company has changed or, if the particular person at the company does not recognize that the uninteresting-looking envelope contains important information, it is easy to overlook it. Failure to file the report, even to the point of becoming terminated by the Delaware Secretary of State's office, tells me little about the KDE League.

  • Dep has a problem with KDE... (Score:5, Informative)

    by 10Ghz ( 453478 ) on Saturday October 05, 2002 @02:54PM (#4394206)
    You may or may not know this but dep (the author of this "article") has a problem with KDE. Basically here's what happened (I posted this on the Linuxtoday.com article about this as well):

    1. KDE hosts an off-topic mailinglist (kde-cafe). There KDE-developers and users can talk about off-topic things (movies, politics etc.)

    2. One KDE-developer (I don't remember which one) posted a message where he criticized Israel policies when it comes to the palestinians. He also voiced concern regarding some US policies as well.

    3. Dep got involved in that discussion and he held an opposing viewpoint. During the course of the discussion he basically called everyone who disagreed with him and idiot.

    4. He also decided that anyone who criticizes Israel is a nazi and an antisemite.

    5. He then wrote a story for Linux and main where he claimed that several KDE core-developers are nazis and antisemites.

    6. In reality, few KDE-developers simply criticized some of Israels policies in an off-topic mailinglist. That does not make them in to nazis.

    • The discussion [kde.org].

      I don't support th killing of innocent people by either terrorists from Israel or Palestine (look up a dictionary definition of the word and tell me there aren't groups on both sides that qualify). But it annoys the shit out of me that everyone who questions Israel is labelled as a racist. Locally, in Australia, the `Anti Defamation League' labelled the Wesley Mission as anti semites because they expressed sympathy with the Palestinians during a prayer around the beginning of the recent incursions. I'm sure I'd be labelled the same by saying any nation that publically supports torture disgusts me.
      • Good for them. I previously had no opinion of linuxandmain and likewise of this KDE league. This has served to paint linuxandmain as a pit of propagandist filth. I hope this attack falls off like water on a duck, and wonder if it accomplished what the author intended.

        Terrorism includes ethnic cleansing, of course. No reputable military force regularly shoots children in the streets outside their homes. The Israeli military does.

    • ...none of which has any bearing on DEP's article on the KDE League.
      From nizcor.org's list of fallacies [nizkor.org]:

      An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting). This type of argument has the following form:

      1. Person A makes claim X.
      2. Person B makes an attack on person A.
      3. Therefore A's claim is false.

      The reason why an Ad Hominem (of any kind) is a fallacy is that the character, circumstances, or actions of a person do not (in most cases) have a bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made (or the quality of the argument being made).

  • ...and I cannot lie..
  • Disclosure: I'm a Gnome programmer [rebelbase.com] who likes both Gnome and KDE.

    Andreas Pour's response [linuxtoday.com] just says that he's not going to speak to DEP because he's not fond of the things that DEP has written.

    His response [kde.org] to the Kompany's Shawn Gordon dismisses everything as, "a non-issue and just part of some mud-slinging campaign."

    "ad hominem" simply means attacking the person making the argument, rather than the argument, itself. IMO this is what Andreas is doing, which is a shame because the argument itself needs answering, namely:

    The KDE League's web site was down, it hadn't filed its Deleware paperwork as an organization, and it hasn't made any press releases since its launch in 2000. If the KDE League is still in business, what is it doing other than collecting quarterly $500 or $2,500 checks from its ten members?

    There's no doubt that Andreas is the person who should answer this question: he's the chairman of the KDE League, he's listed in the KDE Promotion FAQ [kde.org] as the KDE League's point of contact, and, for crying out loud, a reverse lookup [anywho.com] on the phone number in kdeleague.org's whois address [domaindiscover.com] gives Andreas' phone number in an apartment complex.

    Which brings my two questions:

    If the KDE League is really just Andreas, is he just pocketing these members' checks, or is it being fed back to KDE Developers?

    If there really are other members, why on Earth are they letting him destroy the League's credibility this way?

    The only reason I can think of for the KDE League to not answer is if it's done nothing since its inception.

    The only reason I can think of for other League members to stay quiet is that either there aren't any, or that they know the jig is up and would rather let Andreas take the heat.

  • I was in this prematurely air conditioned supermarket and there were all
    these aisles and there were these bathing caps you could buy that had these
    kind of Fourth of July plumes on them that were red and yellow and blue and
    I wasn't tempted to buy one but I was reminded of the fact that I had been
    avoiding the beach.
    -- Lucinda Childs "Einstein On The Beach"

    - this post brought to you by the Automated Last Post Generator...

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