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Questions Continue About The KDE League 117

Posted by CmdrTaco from the stuff-to-read dept.
OrangeSpyderMan writes "Here is a further piece by Dennis E. Powell ("DEP"), the other is an editorial, submitted simply by "staff". They make interesting reading, and add a lot of info to the story previously reported Of particular insterest is an apparent clarification of the tax status of the league, which, if anything, serves to complicate a little further the true role of the league, as the editorial goes on to explain. Basically the "staff" appear to wonder if it wouldn't have been more productive to give the $170,000 that the League appears to have collected (or be owed) directly to the KDE project."
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Questions Continue About The KDE League More

Questions Continue About The KDE League

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  • How did the KDE League come up with $170,000? Donations? Something else?

    • Re:How did they get the money? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Ctrl-Z ( 28806 ) <tim@noSPaM.timcoleman.com> on Tuesday October 08, 2002 @08:02AM (#4409176) Homepage Journal

      Did you actually read the article?

      Oh, wait, this is Slashdot.

      They don't actually have $170 000. That was their budget for last year. The story that is linked is about their reinstatement as a corporation, and then rambles all over the map talking about money and non-profit vs. not-for-profit, and some pondering on what exactly the KDE League has done for KDE e.V.

      I'm a little bit confused about why they are using such old data in a current story.
      • I'm a little bit confused about why they are using such old data in a current story.

        Having read the article I would have thought it was pretty obvious that the reason they are using such old data is that no current data has been provided (and even the old budgeted data has only been leaked).

        The main point of the non-profit vs not-for-profit stuff was that if they are a non-profit, as they have apparently claimed to be in official filings in Delaware, then they are required to disclose details of their activities, which they have not done.
        • There is no meaningful distinction between nonprofit and not-for-profit. There is a large distinction between nonprofit (and not-for-profit) and tax exempt. Most tax exempt organizations have to make certain financial statements available to anyone who requests them at the cost of a reasonable fee for duplication.

          To make things clearer, some nonprofit organizations are tax exempt (most Churches, most charitable organizations, some schools, etc.). Other nonprofit orgnizations are not usually tax exempt (political action committees, co-ops, neighborhood associations, etc.).

          Being a nonprofit (for the most part) simply means that profits are not payed out to shareholders. This does not mean that the corporation cannot make a profit. Nor does this mean that the corporation is tax exempt. Tax exempt status usually means not only that the corporation doesn't have to pay taxes on its income, but that donations to the corporation are tax deductable. Because of the donation item, tax exempt organizations are generally held to a higher state of transparency than other nonprofits.

          If the KDE League is not a tax exempt corporation (and not publically held), I do not believe that there is any law that states they must publically detail any financial statements. I could be wrong on that.

          You can check out the Delaware Revised Code [state.de.us] if you like. As the KDE League is incorporated in Delaware, this is the law that governs their incorporation.

    • Its obvious... They're rehearsing to become a political party.

  • Deps original article re: KDE, Israel + Palestine (Score:3, Informative)

    by Nailer ( 69468 ) on Tuesday October 08, 2002 @07:39AM (#4409097)
    Can be seen here [linuxandmain.com].

    • Re:Deps original article re: KDE, Israel + Palesti (Score:4, Informative)

      by Nailer ( 69468 ) on Tuesday October 08, 2002 @09:25AM (#4409577)
      Judging by the constant up and down moderation of that comment as either underrated or offtopic, perhaps some context is in order: that article, which alleges that many KDE project members are somehow antisemitic for not supporting Israel, is why Andreas Pour won't speak to Linux and Main an specifically Denis E Powell - he believes DEP has a clear agenda against the project simply because some of its members don't agree with his political views.
      • that article, which alleges that many KDE project members are somehow antisemitic for not supporting Israel,


        That editorial also says:

        "a long column by the noted anti-semite Robert Fisk of the amusingly ill-named "Independent," a British newspaper."

        ...which (for me, at least) sinks it immediately. Having read Robert Fisk's humanitarian reporting from the middle east and beyond for many years, including his condemnation of all manner of arab/muslim/palestine acts, anyone refering to him as an anti-semite has a rather large agenda to push.

    • 'DEP' obviously has his own agenda which doesn't seem to have much to do with open source - he seem's to have got it in for all the KDE developers because some of them have used their 1st ammendment rights and expoused personal opinions that disagree with his

  • Sad (Score:4, Insightful)

    by e8johan ( 605347 ) on Tuesday October 08, 2002 @07:40AM (#4409102) Homepage Journal
    It is sad that the KDE project has to be associated with such business practice. I feel that this can bring down the credibility for the project, which is not only bad for KDE, but for the entire open source movement.

    • Re:Sad (Score:2)

      by Draoi ( 99421 )
      IANAL, but they'd wanna watch it. KDE is a registered trademark of KDE e.V [kde.org], the KDE non-profit umbrella org. I guess if KDEProject sufficiently piss the KDE folks off by dragging their good name into the mud, KDE can revoke permission to use the KDE trademark & all that ...
    • KDE League is just an US organisation of the industry. KDE e.V. is a German Verein. Since most KDE developers are from europe they don't care about American business law na bureaucracy.
      • It seems that you only look at KDE from a developer's point of view. The sad thing is potential users associating KDE with bad business practice.

        This is (IMHO) one of the biggest issues when launching Linux for the desktop (which I believe is one of, if not the reason for doing KDE) - people not seeing the other users as customers. If KDE will ever make it to average Joe, most users will be users. Most probably don't know what a bug report is, neither do they want to fill one out, they want it to work or they'll user their feet (internet connection, whatever) and change to another brand.
        • You are no stakeholder of KDE League. We shall you worry about something that is not your business. When Dep writes misleading information I will not follow him. Don't feed the Hypertroll!
    • Who moderated this post up? It's pure FUD. The poster is accepting Mr. Powell's hyperbole as fact without stopping to consider any of the numerous rebuttals to his articles.

      There are no bad business practices, because KDE League is not a business! It's a not-for-profit that didn't get some paperwork done in time. Sheesh!

  • Black Eye.... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Tsali ( 594389 ) on Tuesday October 08, 2002 @07:40AM (#4409106)
    People might misread this and think lump KDE with this corporation. Not good.

    Fortunately, I don't think this will hit the mainstream media for a number of reasons - a) $170,000 is nothing compared to other companies and b) KDE/Gnome are largely unknown by the common Windows-using public.

    Hopefully this will just be an ugly incident that gets resolved and forgotten.

    It sounds like the KDE league needs to fess up and give back to the community.

    • Re:Black Eye.... (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      "Hopefully this will just be an ugly incident that gets resolved and forgotten."

      Resolved yes, forgotten no!
      Aren't we supposed to learn from history?
    • KDE/Gnome are largely unknown by the common Windows-using public.

      But that can't be true! What about all the good work being done by the KDE League to errrr... never mind :)

  • IANAL (Score:5, Funny)

    by CaptainAlbert ( 162776 ) on Tuesday October 08, 2002 @07:45AM (#4409118) Homepage
    Every article like this I read makes me happier and happier that IANAL. Can you image having to deal with that kind of stuff every day? Eeeeew. It's worse than Prolog! >:-o

    If I ever *do* become a lawyer for some reason, someone please put me out of my misery?

  • Andreas Pour of the League Responded (Score:5, Informative)

    by BRock97 ( 17460 ) on Tuesday October 08, 2002 @07:56AM (#4409154) Homepage
    Just for the record, Andreas Pour has responded to DEP's article with an email that was posted over on Linuxtoday.com. The response can be found here [linuxtoday.com]. At least, that is the only place I have read it....
    • It was (in almost the same format) posted to the kde-core-devel mailing list (in this message [kde.org]).

      Basically, Pour skirts around the issues and provides some non-answers. Whether the Kde League is a non-profit or a not-for-profit (they are the same thing, in US law), they have to release their financial information - it's not up to them to decide if they want to release the information.

      • Whether the Kde League is a non-profit or a not-for-profit (they are the same thing, in US law), they have to release their financial information - it's not up to them to decide if they want to release the information.

        It all depends on the state. On the other hand, if a corp is IRS tax-exmpt, then they HAVE to release it. You can be non-profit without being tax exempt.

        I help run a Texas non-profit corp that is not IRS tax-exempt (fraternal org). By our bylaws (but not state or federal law) we are required to release all accounting data to our members.

        All a non-profit corp means is that there is no passive income (e.g. dividends) paid to any stockholder. All income has to be used only for corp purposes. Tax exempt on the other hand means that you have to provide some benefit to society, releases you from having to pay taxes on any income, fall under the disclosure laws.

        The funny thing is why did they NOT go for the IRS tax exempt status? It is not that hard to get (takes a little while though) and has benefits to boot (ie donations are tax decductiable).

        BWP
    • The linux today article and the one in the reply to this (the kde-devel list link) are replying to OLDER articles. This article has new information to which Andreas has not responded yet. Just wanted to clear that up.

  • But then the League... (Score:5, Funny)

    by tshoppa ( 513863 ) on Tuesday October 08, 2002 @08:02AM (#4409177)
    Basically the "staff" appear to wonder if it wouldn't have been more productive to give the $170,000 that the League appears to have collected (or be owed) directly to the KDE project."

    But then the League wouldn't have that cool metallic headquarters downtown headquarters from which they fight crime.

    Oh, wait, that was the Justice League [cartoonnetwork.com].

  • ...can $170,000 buy?

    Quote from the first Linux and Main article: "...said a spokeswoman for the Delaware Division of Corporations...the KDE League had been listed as "void" in error in the state's computer system and would now be reinstated... Earlier, the organization was suspended for its failure to pay a tax levied on for-profit corporations. It had been "void" for more than seven months until Linux and Main on Monday asked the state to conduct a more thorough examination of the corporation's filings, which led to the discovery of its tax exemption."

    This is not Enron. This is a case of nobody at the helm.

  • Nice move, dep (Score:5, Insightful)

    by back_pages ( 600753 ) <back_pages AT cox DOT net> on Tuesday October 08, 2002 @08:45AM (#4409352) Journal
    I previously had no experience with LinuxandMain. This fiasco has firmly convinced me that the site is a sensationalist gossip haven. I will certainly laugh whenever anyone uses the site or its contributors as a reference.

    Somehow, I think this was not the type of publicity LinuxandMain wanted to stir up. Unfortunately for them, the damage is done. I really couldn't care if the KDE League has been less than admirable in their business practices. The unprofessional hack job that LinuxandMain has done on this story is the only thing I'm going to remember about it.

    Flamebait? Sure, maybe. Maybe I'm just offering a clue to anyone over at LinuxandMain that the potential audience for a Linux website is slightly more critical and clever than the average tabloid reader. Edward Said was right. The media is self-serving and self-perpetuating, but that doesn't mean that smart people won't see through it.

    • Re:Nice move, dep (Score:2, Insightful)

      by jrfonseca ( 575890 )
      I know that it may be difficult to KDE enthusiasts to dissociate the KDE project from this endeavor called 'KDE League'. And spite of all second intentions that many of the slashdot posters argue Dennis E. Powel and LinuxandMain have, the fact is that they are doing a tremendous service to the community, especialy the supportive KDE fans which seem to have been the most damaged party in all this story.

      Since the begining that many people admired and feared the community spirit surrounding Linux and other popular open-source projects as KDE. But we can't forget that many tried and will try to make use of this community spirit for their own gain. That's why transparency should be praised, instead of being considered as an attack to the good name. , because transparency is the _only_ way to have a respectable image.

      In contrary to your opinion, what I'll remember of this will be danger that these fund-raising Leagues/Foundations can be if their business model and intents aren't properly open.

      • Re:Nice move, dep (Score:4, Interesting)

        by back_pages ( 600753 ) <back_pages AT cox DOT net> on Tuesday October 08, 2002 @09:41AM (#4409675) Journal
        But I'm not a KDE enthusiast. I used Gnome exclusively until I installed RH8.0, at which point I switched to KDE just to see how it had changed since I used it last. It's not bad, but to be honest, I'd just as soon use Gnome if KDE annoyed me twice.

        I couldn't really care about the KDE League, and it's quite possible that LinuxandMain have a perfectly valid point. But hey, maybe some KKK members had some really good economic policies. If you're going to reach an audience and expect to be taken seriously, you're going to have a tough time if it appears that extreme political views are your motivation. That's exactly how this scenario looks at this point.

        If MSNBC ran a story about KDE League's finances, I'd think, "Sure, they might be biased toward Microsoft for business reasons, but the story might check out." Instead, we get LinuxandMain, a few mailing list posts, and I'm left thinking that LinuxandMain have some extreme middle east political agenda against the KDE League.

        To be blunt, I'd rather hear Microsoft blast the KDE League because I expect them to. The bias is a result of the market. I distrust anybody who blasts anything software related potentially because of the political opinions of the members. I distrust Diskeeper because it is developed strictly by Scientologists; I distrust LinuxandMain's articles because of the political undercurrent.

        And if LinuxandMain is proud of this publicity, and stands behind this guy, it reflects on the whole organization.

        • What political undercurrent? Are you trying to say that LinuxAndMain is biased solely on the basis that it publishes articles critical of KDE League? If so, isn't that a bit like saying "I'm not going to read any articles heavily critical of Israel because they are written by people who are heavily critical of Israel"?

          What do you expect them to do? Shut up? It seems like you are expecting the impossible in some sense.

          Also it seems a little strange that you view LinuxAndMain with "distrust" because they are acting as a watchdog, but you don't view MSNBC with the same level of distrust even though they are part-owned by a direct competitor of KDE??

          • Oops (Score:2)

            by greenrd ( 47933 )
            Sorry, I know what you mean now - I read the L&M story about the US & Israel discussion on the KDE mailing list... I see what you mean! Please ignore the parent comment.

    • Re:Nice move, dep (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Dr. Smeegee ( 41653 )

      Somehow, I think this was not the type of publicity LinuxandMain wanted to stir up.

      I must disagree- this is precisely the sort of publicity that caginess and (apparent) featherbedding should draw.

      The questions these articles raise are perfectly legitimate: What does the KDE League intend to accomplish? How is it moving toward it's stated goals? Are the actions taken redundant or in contradiction to the goals and aspirations of the Open Source community? Would the money raised be better spent directly by the humans developing the code?

      I really couldn't care if the KDE League has been less than admirable in their business practices.

      Why in the world not? It seems to me that this is the central focus- is this business that has taken the name of a Community an effective, focused, representative of that Community?

      The unprofessional hack job that LinuxandMain has done on this story is the only thing I'm going to remember about it.

      Try rereading it and make an attempt to glean the actual data from the articles. Focusing exclusively on a writers stylistic deficiencies is like saying that Richard Feynman had nothing relevant to say because he had a `tik Neuw Yawhk Akscent.

    • I know what you mean, I looked at the site, thought to myself "I've never heard of this site" and then a split second later thought "I really havent been missing much!". ;-)

  • soon to come on linux and main (Score:4, Insightful)

    by imr ( 106517 ) on Tuesday October 08, 2002 @09:04AM (#4409449)
    1/ what did ximian do with the 15 millions $ ?
    2/ gnome developper heard to dislike the color "black" (to use on an icon) - probably KKK member.
    3/ usage of windowmaker linked with active trolling group - undercover anarcho-terrorrists?
    4/ creator of enlightenment drop his project - probably to escape fbi.
    5/ linux and main just bought by unknkown megacorp of redmond . soon to be renamed.

  • The problem here is the fog surrounding the legal operations of the corporation. The solution is to systematize it in a clear and unambiguous way. I've felt the need for computer systems to help people operate democratic bodies (like corporate boards of directors), and I've begun to spec out a system.

    Why do we tolerate the cloudiness around "The Board" of a corporation? Basically, the only thing you need (besides filing papers with the state after-the-fact) is some people willing to form and document a consensus about how to cooperate in the future. Couldn't that happen in an open and public way on IRC or something? After all, that is how early Linux programmers coordinated, and it seems to have woked fine to start with anyways... Isn't it a step backward to pull things into the murky and mystical darkness of "THEM" in "THE BOARDROOM?" I think, even if "can't we all just get along" is insufficient, that our alternative should conform to our basic principles of openness and scientific process.

    This is an amateur effort, and I am looking for collaborators. The resulting work would be BSD licensed, but must remain secret until the *whole* set of essential functions (closed alpha, closed beta, and THEN open beta testing) can be made freely available as widely as possible (you must agree to NDA until open beta testing). I want to "set the bar" before creating demand for commercial versions, but I don't want to discourage copycats...

  • Stop KDE Bashing! If you prefer Gnome, fine. But don't write hate articles against KDE if your side was inferior. Cui bono?
  • Ok, I still disagree with the underpinings of the article, but I think dep has a few good points:

    > When it was announced, there was a little gratuitous nastiness and hypocrisy thrown in: "Wednesday morning, before or during Mr. [GNOME founder Miguel] de Icaza's presentation, we will issue the press release announcing the formation of the League,"

    I agree. I think the League was founded as somewhat of a "me-too" sorta thing. KDE would have continued to thrive even if the League was not announced.

    > Confidentiality is a little awkward in dealing with free software projects, because it's not something to which the community is accustomed. To which the KDE League responds that it isn't a free software project. Well, then, what is it?

    Well, dep is associating the League with the KDE project, and he himself knows the difference between the two. But, nonetheless, it is a valid point. In dre's response, he said that the league was "not-for-profit", and not "non-profit".

    Can someone with experience in US law explain the difference, if any between the two? I'm still confused about this fact.

    > Though it was announced with high ideals, there's little evidence of its ever having done anything much except collect money,

    Yeah, I thought about the League a few times before this series of articles, and I never knew if they had done anything or not.

    > to it somehow benefits KDE -- though again, if you ask how, exactly, it is doing this, you will not get a response.... What they give back, though, disappears into the great, gaping, one-way maw of the KDE League, never to be heard from again.

    Yeah, again, I'm not sure how the League benefits KDE, or where the money goes.

    > We would love to be proved wrong about this. That would require a degree of disclosure that the KDE League has thusfar refused to provide.

    Yeah, if the League is legally entitled to disclose it's dealings, it would solve the whole issue.

    Even if the league is "not-for-profit", and this means they have more confidentality protections, what's the use of them? This is a corporation founded to advance a free software project. This isn't Microsoft or Enron (heh).
    • Well, dep is associating the League with the KDE project, and he himself knows the difference between the two. But, nonetheless, it is a valid point. In dre's response, he said that the league was "not-for-profit", and not "non-profit".

      Can someone with experience in US law explain the difference, if any between the two? I'm still confused about this fact.

      I'm not experienced in US law, so that probably doesn't help much :) but as far as I can tell from what the two sides are saying, the distinction they're making is :

      Non-profit : special status granted by the federal government, grants immunity from taxes (or at least some special status with respect to taxes) but carries extra requirements, including additional disclosures. This would typically be used by charities (or maybe can only be used by charities)

      Not-for-profit : just like any other company, but it doesn't trade or otherwise make a profit (and isn't intended to) so although it's liable to taxation in theory, in practice it doesn't have any taxable income. So in this case, I guess the idea is the company takes contributions from its members and spends those contributions on the things that the members are contributing them for, i.e. promoting KDS (or not). Any money left over the members are still entitled to. The company isn't charging outsiders for a service in order to generate a profit, so on no profit there's no tax.

      That's my non-expert understanding of what they're saying.
    • Depending on your state of residence, both or either term is usually used to refer to the same thing. You can find a more specific answer at the FAQ at nonprofits.org in the article Is there a difference between 'nonprofit' and 'not-for-profit'? [nonprofits.org]

      • Well, based on that information, it seems that the KDE league must reveal it's financial statements to the public.

        BUT, I wonder what the laws in Deleware (or wherever the league is based) says.
        • The real question is whether or not the KDE league is also a tax exempt corporation. As a general rule, nonprofits are not tax exempt. Only corporations that apply for and receive tax exempt status are considered to be tax exempt. Generally speaking, a corporation has to exist for entirely charitable, religious or educational purposes to receive tax exempt status. There are much less stringent rules to be considered nonprofit.

          This is a key distinction because AFAIK in terms of federal laws (and most states because the states tend to follow the feds on this) it is only those nonprofit organizations that are tax exempt corporations that must disclose certain financial statements such as their corporate income tax return.

  • Maybe some other open source group like GNOME Foundation can take over for the KDE League
  • It looks like the KDE League is a mess, and if I were a member. I would have serious questions of mismanagment.
    Also, a not-for-profit 501(c)3 has to with its filing with the IRS show public support. Hence the honest question of what has it done?
  • It may not be the most up to date resource, but:
    Go to http://www.guidestar.org to get a look at several organizations 990 filings including Red Cross Chapters, USENIX, and the IETF. Its really eye opening.
  • Below is the budget proposal listed in the first article.

    BUDGET PROPOSAL
    ------ --------
    BUDGET FISCAL YEAR 2001
    Revenues: $162,000
    Quarterly dues:
    Executive: 100,000 (10)
    Associate: 8,000 (4)
    Initiation fees:
    Executive: 50,000 (10)
    Associate: 4,000 (4)

    Expenses: $105,000
    Accounting/Tax: 1,000
    Legal 5,000
    Press releases: 12,000
    PR Firm: 40,000
    Management Firm: 24,000
    Promotional: 16,000
    Misc Expenses: 4,000

    Reserves: $ 57,000

    Notice anything funny?

    Expenses = 105k
    1+5+12+40+24+16+4 = 102k?!?!

    I think these guys need to increase their accounting budget. :)

  • As has been pointed out in bits and pieces in other posts, the KDE League is essentially an independent entity - COMPLETELY - from the actual KDE software projects. It is not analogous to the Gnome Foundation, which, as I understand it, is actually a "steering committee" that determines how development on the Gnome software projects will be done (My interpretation - replies with corrections are welcome). In short, the KDE League, while having been 'resurrected' as a concept by the formation of the Gnome Foundation (The idea for the KDE League had been floating around for some time previously, but nobody at the time had been interested), is more analogous to a "Fan Club" than a "Steering Committee".

    So, in short, the reason the KDE League has been sitting around unnoticed for so long is that it is largely irrelevant to actual KDE development. It DOES leave me wondering what they've been doing while they're supposed to be "promoting KDE", but irrelevant nonetheless...

    On the other hand...(Note:The following is humor and not meant to be taken seriously)
    I noticed that just about the same time as these stories started coming out, the anonymous CVS server for KDE's projects that Sourceforge is supposed to be hosting disappeared from the 'net. Could this be a secret conspiracy by Miguel de Icaza, Dennis E. Powell, Elvis, Sourceforge.net, and radical militant Shinto priests to cripple KDE development???

    (More seriously, though - I reported the downed CVS server to sourceforge, and got a form-reply indicating that it was acknowledged, but the system is still innaccessible. Anyone know what's actually going on with it? I'm going into bleeding-edge-KDE-code withdrawals here...)

  • In an email to the kde-cafe mailing list, Andreas Pour, the chairman of KDE League, explained the situation:

    Subject: KDE League Clarifications
    From: Andreas Pour
    To: KDE Cafe
    Date: Today 12:50:40

    Hi,

    Some of you may have seen the story at
    http://www.linuxandmain.com/modules.php?name=N ews&file=article&sid=249 , which
    is entitled "Delaware: KDE League, federally tax-exempt, is reinstated". The
    title is to the best of my knowledge a lie, and having investigated only the
    tax-exempt part of the "story" (I'm currently too busy to spend much time on
    responding to this kind of mud-slinging) most if not all of that appears to be a
    lie as well.

    Although the story correctly notes that the League has been reinstated in good
    standing, it provides a number of new (apparent) lies. I called the Delaware
    Office of Corporate Divisions at 302-739-3073 (see
    http://www.state.de.us/corp/phoneinfo.htm). Here is what I found out. (BTW, I
    would *really* like to know who the "story" supposedly quoted from the Del.
    Sect. of State office, so that the accuracy of these quotes, which is extremely
    questionable based on my conversations with the corporate division, can be
    ascertained, and in the event someone actually made these statements, that they
    can be retracted and accurate information provided instead.)

    The franchise tax was filed late this year - the recorded filing date is April
    2, 2002, whereas the due date is March 1, 2002. B/c the payment was late, the
    office did impose a penalty and since the payment did not cover this penalty the
    office did suspend the corporation. This was done in error, since it was
    explained to me that the State's policy is that not-for-profit corporations do
    not need to pay late penalties. When this was discovered yesterday, due to an
    inquiry by either the League's law firm or someone else, I don't know, the
    penalty was reversed; this meant that the franchise tax had been paid in full
    and hence the corporation restored (retroactively) to good standing.

    Then I started asking questions about the various other things that are claimed
    in the story re: 501(c)(3) status. To answer these questions I was transferred
    to Dot Savage, who told me that she made the good standing correction
    yesterday. I read her the quotes from the "story", and she insisted (a) that
    she had not said those things; (b) that nobody should have said those things;
    and (c) that they were factually incorrect. She made clear the obvious, that
    Delaware is concerned only with state corporate law and not with federal tax law
    (i.e., tax-exempt status). She added their computers have no way to track
    federal tax-exempt status and this is of no concern to them, and that certainly
    Delaware would not make a statement as to the tax-exempt status of a Delaware
    corporation. In particular, she could not understand the leading sentence to
    the story, which begins "The KDE League, Inc., filed papers purporting that it
    had a federal grant of tax-exempt nonprofit status", since Delaware does not
    track these issues and the application does not ask about federal tax status.

    The "story" also has the following statement supposedly made by a Delaware
    official: "Indeed, because it is tax-exempt, she said, the KDE League had been
    listed as 'void' in error in the state's computer system and would now be
    reinstated." I asked Dot about this and she admitted that she was the one who
    restored the League status (due to the error) but she assured me that tax-exempt
    status had nothing to do with it - indeed, as I already mentioned, Delaware does
    not concern itself with tax-exempt status. Instead, it was restored b/c the
    League is "not-for-profit" (though referred to as a "non-profit" in the
    Certificate of Incorporation, but again this is a matter of state corporate law
    rather than of federal tax law).

    As to the reference to 501(c)(3) in the League's Certificate of Incorporation,
    Article Eight, on page 3, provides:

    "Upon the dissolution of the corporation or the winding up of its affairs, the
    assets of the corporation shall be distributed exclusively for charitable or
    educational purposes or to organizations which are then exempt from federal tax
    under Section 501(c)(3) or Section 501(c)(6) of the Internal Revenue Code of
    1986."

    While IIRC such a provision is *required* for a tax-exempt organization, having
    such a provision by no means makes an organization tax-exempt; we simply felt it
    a sensible approach to distributing assets if the League were dissolved. Tax
    exemption requires forms to be filed with the IRS requesting that status, and
    AFAIK such forms have never been filed on behalf of the League, and I certainly
    did not request anyone to file them. It is true that tax exemption was
    considered, in fact quite some time was spent on deciding this issue, but in the
    end it was decided in conjunction with the League's lawyers not to seek such
    status.

    As to everything else, as I noted, I am doing an interview for Ofb.biz and I
    will address them then, but currently I have other pressing projects on my to-do
    list.

    Regards,

    Andreas Pour

    Kde-cafe mailing list - Kde-cafe@ofb.biz
    http://ofb.biz/lists/listinfo.cg i/kde-cafe

    DISCLAIMER: The views expressed on this mailinglist are the personal
    opinions of the author and do not represent KDE or the author's employer.
  • See this comment [kde.org] by KDE e.V. president Matthias Kalle Dallheimer about the rumours about the KDE League.
  • First, a few words about tools.

    Basically, a tool is an object that enables you to take advantage of the
    laws of physics and mechanics in such a way that you can seriously injure
    yourself. Today, people tend to take tools for granted. If you're ever
    walking down the street and you notice some people who look particularly
    smug, the odds are that they are taking tools for granted. If I were you,
    I'd walk right up and smack them in the face.
    -- Dave Barry, "The Taming of the Screw"

    - this post brought to you by the Automated Last Post Generator...

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