Electromagnetic Ship Docking System Debuts 164
Makarand writes "A system that uses electromagnets for docking ships is getting ready to be tested at a port in the
Netherlands according to this
article in the New Scientist. Magnetic docking systems were never used in the past as magnetic fields
posed dangers to sensitive cargo like TVs and monitors. Researchers at the
Delft University of Technology have developed electromagnets whose magnetic fields do not
penetrate far into the ship for this special application.
The magnets can be periodically switched off and on rapidly to allow ships
to rise and fall with the tide."
I don't get it (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:I don't get it (Score:2)
I don't think this technology would be interesting to people if it wasn't worth the costs involved. Have you ever watched a ship dock? It's long laborous, and involves lots of people. There's lots of room for accidents to happen. If they could just pull up, flip a switch, and be attached to the dock, it'd definitely be worthwhile.
So so far I see safety, speed, simpler docking proceedures. Good?
Don't get me wrong though, you do have a point, it'll take a while for it to be adopted. But it isn't hard to imagine that the ability to use EM locks without harming cargo is very interesting.
Re:I don't get it (Score:3, Informative)
BAD PUN ALERT (Score:5, Funny)
Re:BAD PUN ALERT (Score:2, Funny)
Re:BAD PUN ALERT (Score:5, Funny)
Are you kidding? Most dock workers are bi-polar.
Re:BAD PUN ALERT (Score:3, Funny)
Re:BAD PUN ALERT (Score:3, Funny)
Re:BAD PUN ALERT (Score:3, Funny)
Some people respect the gravity of this situation!
hm.... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:hm.... (Score:3, Interesting)
If this works... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:If this works... (Score:2, Funny)
Errm... Don't know about that, but in Holland they have better uses for hemp...
Re:If this works... (Score:2)
Re:If this works... (Score:1, Funny)
Japanese Sumo porn stars?
Re:If this works... (Score:1)
I'm fairly sure that the force of the magnet decays exponentially with distance, so the magnet's field shouldn't extend too far into the ship. Also, fiber optics shouldn't be affected by the EM interference, so as long as the ship-wide wiring is run over fiber optics, things should be OK. (Fiber optic enabled routers on bridge, engine, and network closets; many manufacturing and production plants which have to deal with EM interference use fiber optics, so I'd suspect that cargo ships might use similar solutions to similar problems.)
As far as who needs 4" hemp ropes... uh, Woody Harrelson for a retrofit of the Cheer's pub?
Scene from Cheers 2:
Woody: Arr! I'm a pirate!
Norm: Hey! Give me some of the stuff he's havin!
Fraiser: Oh, what an excellent opportunity to study the affects of canaboids on socio-psychotic behavior!
Cliff: Shut up and pass the pipe.
Diane: I don't know if I like the color green... oh, my! That is green!
Sam: Hey, lock the damn doors! (bubble, bubble, gurgle)
Re:If this works... (Score:2, Interesting)
B = [messy coefficient] (1/r^3) + [messier coefficient] (1/r^4) +
Unless the coefficient of the first term is zero, then, very far from the source the rest of the terms become negligible and the field drops off as the inverse cube (becoming a "magnetic dipole field"). (For electric fields the leading term is 1/r^2, not 1/r^3. This is because there are electric monopoles but not magnetic monopoles.)
The trick, then, and what these guys have presumably done, is to make the field really huge close to the magnet (using all those terms in the
(Disclaimer: yeah, yeah, this doesn't take into account matter in the way, and the magnetic field is a vector. But that doesn't change the basic idea.)
Risk to video and audio tapes, hard drives... (Score:1)
Re:Risk to video and audio tapes, hard drives... (Score:2, Interesting)
where is this being used/could this be used? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:where is this being used/could this be used? (Score:2)
Here's more info on Canada's robotic hand/arm thing [www.exn.ca]. It's like a crazy robotic slinky/robot arm which doesn't have a shoulder. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that it uses electro-magnets, but I can't find any direct mention of the coupling mechanism it uses.
So what does the dockworkers' union think? (Score:5, Insightful)
Each of their mooring magnets generates a 1-tesla magnetic field. (from NS article)
WOW! That's strong. I used to work with a 1.5-T superconductor magnet, an MRI scanner, and it had a heck of a pull. Enough so that people have been injured or killed when a piece of metal got loose. It took three of us to pull off the base of an IV pole (no one inside at the time). Some of the research magnets are 4-T or more. But these are all superconductors, and act like permanent magnets. The resisitive magnets here must produce tons of heat while gobbling electricity. Surely "auto-dock" wouldn't be too hard to design., with mechanical restraints?
Re:So what does the dockworkers' union think? (Score:2)
Paralytic? Really? They all went off and got so trashed they couldn't come into work? Kewl! Where do I sign up...?
Re:So what does the dockworkers' union think? (Score:2)
They were already striking yesterday!
(That was about the EU allowing non-skilled workers to work at the docks though. Heh... "sharing the wealth" somehow doesn't apply when it is their wealth". Of course they are just looking after the membership, but I wish they'd just say that, instead of always giving us that tired line that they do things for the greater good)
Re:So what does the dockworkers' union think? (Score:4, Interesting)
One reason the ILWU had become such a powerful, well-paid union is the fact that when cargo got container-ized rather than loose-packed, they embraced change and took payouts for the workers displaced by the new equipment.
Re:So what does the dockworkers' union think? (Score:2)
You could be right, but I doubt it. My wife has a relative who used to tie up ships at San Francisco Bay. His salary was higher than mine (I'm a programmer), and his job consisted primarily of being on call. When his beeper went off he would go down to the dock, loop a rope over a capstan and return home. I'll grant that he was pretty much on call 24-hours a day, but he only worked one or two of those hours.
It doesn't surprise me that the shipping industry would like to eliminate these jobs. But I doubt that a union that has held on to them for so long will give them up without a fight, or without getting something equally lucrative in return.
Re:So what does the dockworkers' union think? (Score:2)
Well, until now anyway
Re:So what does the dockworkers' union think? (Score:2)
Working for a company that has many products made overseas, I can say they are the worst example of a union that I can think of. Well, unless you work for them. During the recent strike the unions were offered the following: Minimum $110k per worker, 100% medical coverage, no jobs lost due to technology. Oh, and they refused it.
There are people there STILL doing paper manifests, while the rest of the world starting using EDI in the 80's. Nope, Not the major ports in the U.S., they're unionized.
IMHO, They're a huge wart on the world economy.
Re:So what does the dockworkers' union think? (Score:1, Funny)
Except possibly pusher or shover robots.
Re:So what does the dockworkers' union think? (Score:1, Interesting)
Seriously, in the U.S. we just recently had a paralytic dockworkers' strike. I don't think they'd be amused by this labor-saving innovation. Not that I think people should be kicked out of jobs by robots.
Back in the 80's, the Japanese started using robots to build cars. Here in the US the Auto Workers Union, afraid the robots would replace American jobs, wouldn't allow the manufacturers to use them. Now the Japanese technology is far ahead of ours and the Japanese have a competitive advantage.
Re:So what does the dockworkers' union think? (Score:2, Interesting)
Why not? Automation is a good thing. Do you think that we should still be using switchboard operators and elevator attendants? As the level of automation in the world increases, the total amount of manual labor that mankind must perform decreases. Ideally, we should get to the point where the only work we're doing is maintaining/improving the robots.
Besides, if these magnetic docking systems put a few longshoremen out of work, so what? Is it really such a terrible thing that they better themselves and learn a new trade?
Re:So what does the dockworkers' union think? (Score:2, Interesting)
That's a pretty weak ideal future; humans slaving away oiling up their robot master so it can build Nike's 7% faster. :)
Ideally, we'll get to the point where advancing robotics, nanotechnology, and IA & AI, will result in the technological unemployment of just about everybody on and off Earth. And just when society is getting used to the idea of an economy of unimaginable abundance, the next shockwave will hit.
--
Re:So what does the dockworkers' union think? (Score:2)
My guess is that even if they'd have nothing to do and have their food, housing clothing etc taken care of, they'd still be unhappy. People are just that irrational.
Re:So what does the dockworkers' union think? (Score:2)
dumb mass of people not doing anything.
"What will the slaves do?" was the reason the Roman Emperor gave for not permiting the development of steam engines!
Something will need to be done to allow for the transition to a society with no need for manual laborers, but stunting the growth of technology isn't it.
Re:So what does the dockworkers' union think? (Score:4, Informative)
Why not? Why put the interests of a few (the small minority of people with 'traditional' industry jobs) before the common good of the many (who will enjoy higher standards of living with increased automization).
WOW! That's strong. I used to work with a 1.5-T superconductor magnet, an MRI scanner, and it had a heck of a pull. Enough so that people have been injured or killed when a piece of metal got loose
This is a fair point, but one should keep in mind that what is dangerous is intrinsic to the powers necessary to pull a large ship. A more traditional solution probably involves powerful winches, which of course can pose risks if a cable snaps or somebody gets a hand in the wrong place.
Tor
Re:So what does the dockworkers' union think? (Score:2, Funny)
1.5 Tesla Cryomagnets (Score:4, Interesting)
1) Did this docking system actually cost only $50M? At $5M a year, is a 10 year return on investment reasonable?
2) Is it actually Helium/Nitrogen cooled? We have to have a dedicated coolant system for our magnet to work at 1.5 Tesla. Moreover, what happens if a magnet breaks? They're not going to vent 2,000L of Helium, per magnet into the ozone, are they? (52 magnets = 100,000L total of liquid Helium)
Re:1.5 Tesla Cryomagnets (Score:2)
Re:1.5 Tesla Cryomagnets (Score:1)
Re:1.5 Tesla Cryomagnets (Score:1)
What does it matter? Other than wasting Helium, their isn't any environmental hazard from venting Helium or Nitrogen. Nitrogen's just air, after all and Helium's almost totally inert.
About the only danger I can think of is that if 2000L of Liquid Helium (or Nitrogen) is that anything it falls on is going to flash-freeze. Given that it's over water, you could just sell'em as fishsticks, I guess.
Re:1.5 Tesla Cryomagnets (Score:2, Funny)
Imagine the scene with 40 big burly guys hulking ropes around, trying to moor the boat the old way after a critical leak. All the while screaming at each other in those voices, hell this scene alone almost justifies the project.
Into the ozone? (Score:2)
Erm, what exactly would be the problem with this?
Re:Into the ozone? (Score:1)
Regarding the ozone, none that I can think of - but helium is expensive (about $5.50/liter), and a non-renewable resource, since it's light enough to dissipate from the atmosphere into space. Also, the only useful source of helium at the moment is natural gas deposits that are unusually rich in the stuff; there's so little of it in the atmosphere, and it's such a pain to liquefy (4.2 Kelvin!), that condensing it out of air is infeasible.
I assume that they're doing no such thing, though. Non-superconducting NMR magnets are available to at least 2 Tesla, presumably they're using similar designs.
Reply to Everyone: Helium (Score:2)
I agree that there isn't much of a chemical hazard with the Helium or Nitrogen, in regards to chemical reactions. Perhaps my wording was a bit off there, in regards to 'ozone'. I suppose that I'm a bit more concerned with work accidents and thermodynamics, than I am with ozone and atmospheric reactions. Given my training with 1.5Tesla magnets, I can envision accidents happening with human workers getting freeze-burns when a magnet gets hit with a fully loaded cargo ship, and explodes... splashing liquid Helium on everybody. That would be a quick way to ruin your day.
At work, they make a big deal about not "breaking" the cryomagnet by releasing the Helium. It's got an emergency release valve which vents the Helium in case an accident occurs. I'm told that stuff can cause really bad burns.
Also, there's a question, in terms of economics, if a magnet breaks. The emergency button on our 1.5 Tesla magnet has, of all things, a warning sign which states 'Refueling of the magnet is very costly.' My thinking is that if I were to ever press that button, and somebody's life wasn't very much in danger, I'd get a meeting with my directors real quick-like, regarding why it's going to cost them $10,000 to refuel the magnet.
Anyhow, seems to me like there are some practicle issues which need to be sorted out. It's going to probably cost $500,000 in liquid helium costs alone, just to power the thing up.
Ah well... Seems like a neat project to me.
c'mon guys, be more creative with the name (Score:2, Funny)
One Problem (Score:2, Insightful)
Lots of Ropes:[Initial Cost: £10,000, Ongoing Cost: £0 (near enough)].
Electromagnets:[Initial Costs £50,000, Ongoing Cost: £1000s/month]
I think the problem is obvious here
Arc
Except... (Score:2)
Re:One Problem (Score:1)
From the article:
"..they say the system could save them around 5 million Euro a year in labour costs.."
Re:One Problem (Score:2)
Lots of Ropes:[Initial Cost: £10,000, Ongoing Cost: £0 (near enough)].
Electromagnets:[Initial Costs £50,000, Ongoing Cost: £1000s/month]
I think the problem is obvious here
So... what are the costs saved in getting ships docked and undocked faster, much fewer people involved to moor the ship, and the increase in safety that'd likely result from it?
Re:One Problem (Score:1, Insightful)
Presuming a likely cost of something in the neighborhood of $5K per module (no reason to think they'll be any cheaper - this is after all, a 1-T magnet) plus another $5K-$10K per module to install (gotta tear up some bulkheads and find a way to attach the modules, tear up a parking lot and run electrical wire) plus another $50K for a backup diesel-powered 50KW generator (that's only one 1KW per module which is probably low), plus you gotta put the mooring out of service for a couple of weeks to do this with a probable lost business value of unknown size.
Intemize installation costs:
52 modules X $5K equals $260K plus installation of $260K to $520K plus backup power source $ 50K
Total: $570K to $830K
On-going costs:
50KW power 6cents/KWH $2160/month plus backup power maintenance $ 200/month plus magnet modules inspection/maint.$1000/month
Total: $3360/month
First year cost:
Installation: $570K to $830K
Maintenance: $ 40K $ 40K
Total: $610K to $870K
Now, hawsers are both more expensive and shorter-lived than you suggest, but the ROI this idea is still probably in the 10+ years - and by then you'll probably have to install new magnets and start over. A bad idea altogether.
Re:One Problem (Score:2)
Also, how do you put a cost on human life?
Re:One Problem (Score:4, Informative)
At the very least, according to the cost of medical grade 1.5 Tesla magnets, your initial costs for the electromagnet system could be off by as much as a factor of 1000. (1 Tesla magnets can cost a cool $1M each, with computer systems, real estate infrastructure upgrades, and all. And they're talking about a 52 magnet system.). My guess:
Electromagnets: [Inital Costs: $50,000,000; Ongoing Costs: $100,000 per year]
Lots of Ropes: [Initial Costs: $100,000; Ongoing Labor Costs: $5,000,000 per year (for 200 dock workers)
Five years down the road, the investment pays off real big.
But I don't know that for a fact.
Dockworkers Response (Score:3, Interesting)
"Mooring a ship can be a time-consuming, labour-intensive affair in which dock workers grab ropes hurled from the deck of the incoming ship and secure them to the dockside."
I've never been one decry progress because it'll put some people out of work, but this does have the potential to unemploy a whole crapload of people over the not-so-long term.
I wonder how the dockworkers union is handling this?
Re:Dockworkers Response (Score:1)
One of the problems with unions have been that they fight against any new labour savings devices. Yet, they would do better to fight for jobs promotion to other positions such as tech work on the mags.
Re:Dockworkers Response (Score:2)
" One of the problems with unions have been that they fight against any new labour savings devices. Yet, they would do better to fight for jobs promotion to other positions such as tech work on the mags."
I thought of that but, afaik, unions are not structured like this. The Dockworkers Union represents dockworkers, not what dockworkers will eventually become if they go with the (possibly delayable but inevitable) technical advance. So there is no incentive. Their only option is to stall.
I'm not saying I agree with it. Painters got pissed about cameras because multi-day portraits became a decidedly unattractive option in comparison. Progress marches on with very little notice or concern for who it steps on. I'm not lamenting it so much as wondering, from a societal standpoint, how they're coping. Or maybe even learning from past union mistakes.
Power failure? (Score:3, Interesting)
At least living in the Bay Area with all the uproar about the "Energy Crisis" a couple of years ago, this may not be the most reliable system if you had to rely totally on electricity to dock all those boats up there in Oakland....
Re:Power failure? (Score:1)
Re:Power failure? (Score:1, Informative)
Once moored, nothing is easier than throwing a line and having your backup.
Powerfailures in the Netherlands used to be extremely rare. I'm 38. I can remember four powerfailures. There might be one I missed, but no more. They also tend to last short. 30 minutes to 4 hours. They're privatizing the electricity-sector, which used to be state-run, so the rate of powerfailure is going up, but is still no way like America. Let alone California.
Re:Power failure? (Score:1)
Re:Power failure? (Score:1)
OK, I'm sure they will have ropes, but I think you are downplaying the consequences of a mooring system failing.
Hrmm, nice idea (Score:1)
But seriously, how much power is that going to draw? escpecially once they have a whole bank of them? and what's going to happen to the already, electricity strapped california when they start putting in banks of them?
Danger!! (Score:1, Interesting)
But it would be interesting to see what happened when they power it up.
1) The guy(or gal) gets all the piercings torn out of their body.
2) They just fly off the deck of the ship and hit the electromagnet face first.
Wouldn't this magnetize the hull (Score:2)
Doc worker Anti-Technology policy (Score:1)
Not as usefull (Score:4, Interesting)
Methinks docking lines might be a bit cheaper too - and when properly set, only slight adjustments need to be made for the tide.
What would be very cool to see is the magnet start attracting someone's belt loop or a leatherman out of someone's pocket standing nearby... wow
A solution looking for a problem (Score:5, Interesting)
This is just a solution looking for a problem, and I'll predict that it'll never ever be used.
I live at a port in New Zealand (just outside Christchurch actually) and often watch the ships docking. My father used to tie them up. If I look to my left, I can see about a half-dozen ships out my window.
The majority of the 40 minutes that the article quotes, that it takes to berth the ship, is the tugs turning, and pushing the ship to the wharf. That's the thing with ships, they have a big propeller at the back, which pushes them forwards, and they can't move from side to side. They do have a rudder, but it's not designed for more than a few degrees of turning, you can't use it to dock. (I'll stay away from bow thrusters for now)
Basically the process goes like this...
A Pilot (who works for the port, and is an expert in the local navigation/conditions of the port) is taken to the ship on a small launch, and meets it several miles from the harbour.
The Pilot then commands the vessel, until it's tied up at the wharf. (s)he co-ordinates the ship, tugs, and wharf staff who, at the end of the operation drop the ropes over the bollards.
Securing the ship with the ropes takes about 5 minutes on a slow day, getting the ship alongside the wharf takes about 35 minutes. The thing with ropes is, that...
1) They're proven. They've been using them for thousands of years.
2) It's a standard system, used all over the world.
3) It's simple, never underestimate this.
4) it copes well with varing weather and tides.
5) You still need ropes to tie between the tugs and the ship.
Now, as I said before, you've going to save about 5 minutes per berthing? Your damage costs are going to far outweigh the costs of any savings.
And, what happens when the power goes out?
The ship floats away, probably onto rocks.
Backup Generators? Yeah sure, a diesel generator is going to hold a ship with 4-8000 shipping containers alongside a wharf, is bad weather, and an especially high tide, with no outages.
I'm sorry, but there's no way this would ever work.
Re:A solution looking for a problem (Score:1)
I could see this work in a practical situtation for ships passing through docks, to keep them steady, drag them in or some jazz.
Maybe thats what they're doing this year for maintenance!
Re:A solution looking for a problem (Score:2)
Also, as I was posting elsewhere on this thread, the cost of 1 Tesla magnets is high... as high as $1M per magnet, what with the computer systems, the liquid helium and liquid nitrogen costs, the concrete reinforcements, and all.
So, how do you explain the $20M to $50M price tag of this project? I don't think somebody would spend that kind of money for 52 new 1 Tesla magnets (which the article also quotes) if they weren't doing anything other than docking cruise liners, cargo super-ships, naval destroyers, and aircraft carriers.
And if they're using 1 Tesla cryomagnets (which is common for that field strength), it doesn't neccessarily matter if the electricity goes out... the superconductor keeps the magnetic charge. Hell, if they're docking things like aircraft carriers and cargo super-ships, I wouldn't be surprised if they found reason to spend $500,000 on the liquid helium costs alone, per ship, in order to go through a complete power up and power down of the cryomagnets before and after the ships dock. Actually, if they're docking any nuclear powered vehicle, such as submarines, destroyers, or aircraft carriers, I wouldn't be surprised at all if they were using cryomagnets.
(FYI: It takes 2,000L of Helium per magnet, which costs about $5 per Liter, for a $10,000 cost per magnet, in terms of Helium alone. This works out to about $520,000 for the 52 magnets. But, then again, they may not be using cryomagnets. All they said was that they were 1 Tesla magnets.)
Re:A solution looking for a problem (Score:1)
There are other problems of having 1 Tesla magnets. They attract shit, you are going to have to make sure any ferrous metals are nowhere near the magnets at any time during docking, loading and all that. What about the affects on the boat, sensitive equipment, etc. Also the possibility of magnetism the hull (uhh - captain we're still pointing north) and other problems.
It's a bad idea, I can't believe someone got funding for it. Yeah, sure ropes are primitive and simplistic. But if you are going to go to all this effort to save, maybe, an hour then I am going to say it's a waste of time.
Re:A solution looking for a problem (Score:3, Insightful)
First of all, this is an experiment.
Second of all, they seem to have convinced a lot of people in positions they probably got by knowing what they're doing that this has the potential to save a lot of time and money. Please concede at least the possibility that this might actually happen or at the very least, your uneducated concerns might have already been addressed by the educated.
Stop for a minute and repeat to yourself: I do not run a major ocean port. I do not run a major ocean port.
Re:A solution looking for a problem (Score:2)
As for the 'problems' you forsee...do you REALLY think they haven't been adressed? They'll make sure that the electromagnetic field is shaped, that it's (eventually) going to be cheaper (that's what cost/profitability studies are for) and that it doesn't affect the GPS system. Just as an example: if they hadn't already stated that they'd ensured the cargo wouldn't be affected by their new system, would
Also, most ship's hulls are already under an electromagnetic influence: to halt corrosion, there's a block of metal called the "selfssacrificing metal" (direct dutch translation). What this does is have a different electrovalence than the hull, to ensure that the metal of that block is corroded instead of the hull. So who cares about "magnetising the hull"...it's already done, and won't affect the navigation in the slightest.
Re:A solution looking for a problem (Score:2)
Sure, there have been dumb things, but for example nuclear fusion will happen. Basic research must be done. And this isn't just basic research, this is application.
As for that last bit: *thump*. That was the sound of my head hitting my desk. I was talking elctrovalencies...which won't change. Pick up a mechanical engineers handbook, once upon a time, please.
Re:A solution looking for a problem (Score:2)
When your business involves docking every day or every other day, you come up with things make it easier.
If you ever get to tour the bridge on a Carnival Holiday class boat, check out the "docking windows" in the floor at the outside ends of the bridge. They're in the part of the bridge that hang out over the side of the ship, and have a set of thruster controls in front of each one, so you can see 10 decks (130 some feet) below to the water, to park it.
Re:A solution looking for a problem (Score:2)
Crusing rocks.
Good for oil tankers (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Good for oil tankers (Score:2)
New for big ships, but not for small (Score:3, Interesting)
Although I can't find any technical details from Google, the Alsterdampfer in Hamburg, Germany, have been using a magnetic system for at least 30 years (no snide comments about my age, please). In this image [alstertouristik.de], you can see the magnets as the black-faced buckles on the side, just above the waterline.
For this to work, the side of the jetty is plated with steel plates for the magnets to hold on to; depending on the skill (or inclination ;-) of the captain, the boat can be tucked towards the jetty quite violently...
Re:New for big ships, but not for small (Score:2, Interesting)
Those boats make passenger stops every two or three miles, and it doesn't take up much more time than a bus stop.
rj
Just asking... (Score:1)
I am not studied in such areas, but can't one just place a sensor near the docking point and tell it to make something go boom when it detects such a magnet on the hull? It's not as though there are other such magnets being used at the same hull contact points, which might confuse such a strategy.
I'm only asking...
Re:Just asking... (Score:2)
Re:Just asking... (Score:2)
Who cares!? You have terrorists on the brain...at least the Irish and British didn't overreact.
Residual magenitsm of the hull? (Score:3, Informative)
Sure, there won't be enough residual that it sticks to other passing ships, or anything, but what about interference with magnetic compasses.
I had a steel-tube frame airplane, and it got so magnetized from arc welding that the mag compass was totally useless. No amount of swinging could correct the compass deviation. Nor did it help to replace the mag compass with a new one. I ended up degaussing the whole fuselage with a degauss coil designed for TV sets, and never had the problem again.
But I can't see doing that on the scale of a container ship!
Re:Residual magenitsm of the hull? (Score:5, Interesting)
The earth's magnetic field tends to magnetize a ship over time. During the second world war, torpedoes and mines used magnetism as one method of detecting that a ship was near. The magnetism would also mess with the compasses, of course. Large ships, lacking degaussing coils, would routinely go back to port and dock in a way that used the earth's magnetic field to gradually cancel out the ship's magnetism.
Re:Residual magenitsm of the hull? (Score:2)
Re:Residual magenitsm of the hull? (Score:2)
You see, the Navy is still very concerned about how magnetic their ships are. There are many munitions with magnetic sensors. After a yard period - when a ship has a lot of welding done to it - the degaussing cables need to be run across the entire ship encasing it in a huge net.
As a practical note - doing this is a major pain in the ass. I've gone through it twice. When they need to run all those cables over (and under) the ship, it's the ships crew that are doing all the backwork. (and that's ALL the ships crew - I was an Electonic Warfare specialist - pulling cables). It also takes a couple of days to get all the cables in place. I lost a couple of weekends to these operations.
Now, it sounds to me like this new system will put MUCH more magnetism into a ship than just the earth's background field. Perhaps they've devised a way to cancel any effects (maybe, reversing the field several times a second?) But I'd bet that enough residual would be left over that would require degaussing operations much more often than normal.
My bet is the US Navy wont do anything like this anytime soon. Especially to save the last few minutes of time while tying up.
Re:Residual magenitsm of the hull? (Score:2)
Re:Residual magenitsm of the hull? (Score:2)
conversions (Score:2, Informative)
Storm force 12 = 80 knots = 92 MPH
It's been done- (Score:4, Funny)
Military vessels will never use this. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Residual fields (Score:2)
I'm annoyed by a lot of these comments (Score:5, Interesting)
First of all, this is an experiment. Experiments never usually make money in the short term.
Secondly, here's a quote from the article (which several posters need to actually read): Could we please concede the possibility that someone has done a marginal amount of research into this and backed these figures up on some real numbers? Maybe it won't save them that much, or maybe the whole thing will end up costing too much. That's the point of an experiment, after all: to determine if something is going to work.
And for all of the couch port authorities inhabiting Slashdot, please remember that this is probably going to be done with the blessing (and financial support) of a large ocean port. I know that perhaps many of you think you know more about docking ships, managing large ocean-going vessels and the expenses associated with these activities than those in charge of these ports, but please take a deep breath, relax for a minute, and consider the possibility that maybe they're supporting this experiment for a reason, and that reason probably has less to do with a mad scientist trying to dupe someone into buying them a lot of expensive magnets and more to do with a convincing argument that this experiment could save them money in the long run.
Re:I'm annoyed by a lot of these comments (Score:2)
Notes to self (Score:2)
2nd Note to self:
1. Patent, and copyright a system that uses DRM enabled, pulsed-electromagnets that attact each other.
2. Wait a few years until new electromagnetic boat docking system becomes popular.
3. Sue everyone that uses this new system under the DMCA and demand hefty license fees.
4. Profit!
5. Ask congress to invent a new tax on magnets and electromagnets that is paid directly to me for piracy compensation.
6. Low probablility of Profit, but a fun waste of time.
"Where have all the great men gone?" -me
Has been used on Mars for a long time (Score:2, Funny)
>push orange button
The writing on the button changes as you press it
The Royal Barge drifts slowly around the bend, ending up near the western bank of the canal.
>read orange button
The huge orange button reads: MagnetoMoor off
>_
(From 'Leather Goddesses of Phobos' Infocom, 1986)
Not just "a port" (Score:2, Informative)
Coutse and heading, captain (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Coutse and heading, captain (Score:2)
Can somebody please moderate me down for completely mistyping the fricking subject line? Jeez!
Imagine the cost ... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Appropriate technology or high-tech boondoggle? (Score:3, Insightful)