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Java Software Programming Apache

Apache Launches a J2EE Project 40

Posted by michael from the one-lump-or-two dept.
gstein writes "The ASF has announced the launch of the "Geronimo" project. Geronimo will be an Apache-licensed implementation of the Java J2EE specification; further, the ASF is committed to getting it certified as J2EE-compliant. The project is looking for developers interested in helping to carry this ambitious effort forward. See the original invitation that was sent out to many J2EE communities."
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Apache Launches a J2EE Project More

Apache Launches a J2EE Project

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  • Seems like a good idea (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Arkham ( 10779 ) on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @02:38PM (#6618517)
    J2EE is a very complex standard. Of the J2EE containers that I have used (WebLogic, JBoss, and Resin), only Resin actually seems easy to set up and use. WebLogic is very powerful, but the learning curve is steep.

    It would be nice to see a complete, certified J2EE implementation that's as straightforward to use as Tomcat.

    Maybe I should join the effort. Maybe you should too :)

    • Re:Seems like a good idea (Score:5, Insightful)

      by amorico ( 40859 ) on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @03:22PM (#6619132)
      <sarcasm> Ooh, maybe it will be as fast and stable as Tomcat </sarcasm>.


      Anyone who has tried to use freeroller can tell you how stellar the combination of struts and tomcat is.


      What will be interesting is to see how it stacks up against JBoss and Jonas the other Open Source application servers. At this point, however, it is vapor, though Jakarta does have an excellent and deserved reputation for follow-up and completion. I use many of their components (which is why I have complaints ;)


      The reason the J2EE learning curve is so steep is because the learning curve for transaction oriented distributed computing is steep. J2EE makes it easi-er, but not easy by any stretch of my tortured imagination. There is no wizard that can tell you how to scale and plan your architecture given your usage environment. Most people do it with a mixture of experience, best practices, and prayer.


      Still, the more the merrier and the apache license will be very conducive to the constituent components of this server being used elsewhere. At the very least there will be more people to pray with over deployments.

      • Tomcat IS stable ! Vive Schroedinger ;-) (Score:2, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Ok, we all know it is not very performant compare to other servlet container, but things are getting improved with the latest releases.

        But about the stability, i've pushed tomcat on some big servers since years without having any kind of problem.

        If well parametrized, there is no issue for a single instance to handle more than 200 connections at the same time. This is quite enough for most people server requirements !

        Bu the way did you heard about schroedinger [micromata.de], a nice packaging that ease the setup of tomc
      • Hopefully the project will be run like the Tomcat project, and not like several of the other Jakarta subprojects. I use many of the smaller projects in an application now, and while the technology is good, the project management is terrible.
    • FYI "steep learning curve" in psychology means that it's easy to learn. Au contraire, in engineering, it means it's difficult to learn. This is due to the different ways the time-knowledge graph can be drawn vis-a-vis the X and Y axes.
    • Yes well any architecture of this nature is complex but once understood is quite simple. Taking the problem and coming up with the correct architecture using J2EE is much harder than understanding how J2EE works. Anyway JBOSS is not Sun Certified yet

  • What about JBoss? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by bornholtz ( 94540 ) on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @03:14PM (#6618993)
    I'm all for the Apache project and use many of their projects in my own open source project. However, the J2EE spec is *HUGE*. JBoss is already an Open Source implementation. Might it be a better effort to contribute and make JBoss stronger?

    • Re:What about JBoss? (Score:5, Informative)

      by sircrown ( 82531 ) on Tuesday August 05, 2003 @04:16PM (#6620005) Homepage
      For one thing, JBoss is under the LGPL and if I'm not mistaken Apache projects only use code released under the Apache Software License (ASL) or other suitably compatible license such as MPL or BSD.

      Secondly, a lot of people seem to have objections over how the JBoss Group (allegedly) runs its business. Enough so as to stop them from using the product.

    • Re:What about JBoss? (Score:2, Informative)

      by sporty ( 27564 )
      JBoss, unfortunately, is a bit of a bear to use. Just what I've learned through the frustrations of others.

    • JBoss is already an Open Source implementation. Might it be a better effort to contribute and make JBoss stronger?

      Yes, it would. However, the license used by Apache projects is less restrictive than the LGPL that is used in JBoss licensing. Also, many of the developers who are most interested in pushing Geronimo out of the incubator are actually former committers on the JBoss project. There is some bad blood [theaimsgroup.com] on this issue, and it does not look like JBoss Group is interested in letting these people be

  • ...as SUN's stuff usually feature Apache code inside (including the current J2EE RI and Application Server). It's only logical for SUN to push development of the complete application server to Apache, as it has been doing with many other code bases of it's products. Using an open source group to develop stuff reduces costs (SUN is not the only one doing this, see IBM with the Eclipse/Websphere studio for another example).

    The benefit is for everyone as we gain access to more OS code. Then again, SCO may cl

  • Advantage over JBoss (Score:5, Insightful)

    by oops ( 41598 ) on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @07:40AM (#6624665) Homepage
    The advantage that this could have over JBoss is the potential for certification as a J2EE container.

    JBoss have spent ages negotiating with Sun over the costs of certification, whereas Apache (as a registered charity) aren't eligible for the certification fee.

    I'm not making a case for certification, but for some people this is a big deal.

    • Re:Advantage over JBoss (Score:4, Informative)

      by NateTheGreat ( 151549 ) on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @09:32AM (#6625423) Homepage
      It looks like this is in the works now. From Marc Fleury's July 2003 news, which went out last night:
      JBoss is increasingly used in production and as you all move to production we realize that certification brand becomes an important check mark. We have the financials to take it on, so we are. So many people have asked us where that was at and the press is having a field day with the story. It seems everyone likes drama. So there is no drama at least not anymore on our side. For all intents and purposes, JBoss has agreed to ALL the conditions imposed by SUN. It includes what for us is a hefty sum of money. They didn't give us a break, they didn't give us any break, which is kind of normal if you think about it as there are many parties involved and SUN must treat all licensees the same. In short the ball is in SUN's court and we are looking forward to inking the contract.
      Let's hope it goes quickly so we can move on. Personally, I don't really care whether it has certification. I already know that it does what I need. However, this will provide the necessary ammo to get JBoss in the door in a few places. The really great thing about JBoss is J2EE is just a feature of the system. There are so many cool features that go beyond J2EE. I highly encourage everyone to check it out!
    • Don't know if you saw this discussion [slashdot.org] over in the Developers section. Looks like JBoss is finally making a concerted effort to move ahead with certification.

      JBoss will be certified long before Apache's J2EE is finished, so Apache won't have the advantage of being the only open-source J2EE implementation.

      However, I still think Apache's J2EE does have one big advantage--the Apache license. As others have pointed out, this could mean that we'll see Apache's J2EE code popping up in other vendors' products,
  • With this story, the "Virgin Apache hard to find" story has officially been dropped off of the apache mini-page at the top right corner of slashdot, it will be missed.

  • Mod me OT, but... (Score:3)

    by Jellybob ( 597204 ) on Wednesday August 06, 2003 @05:22PM (#6629245) Journal
    Who decided that white on black was the right colour combination for one of the biggest mailing list archives out there?

    Did someone really sit down and say "Hey, we're building a site where people are gonna sit and read large ammounts of text. How about we choose the worst combination of colours for long term reading known to man."
  • Project ELBA [sourceforge.net] has the best summary ever:
    ELBA is an interim but production ready enterprise application server written in Java. The goal of the ELBA project is to die by having all of its functionality replaced by the Apache Geronimo project.

    apparently marc flowery is chomping over this. He has been flaming [magpiebrain.com] everyone all over the place, calling the people running appache hypocrites [magpiebrain.com], pulling CVS write privalages from core [coredevelopers.net] jboss developers, and trying to make out the LGPL has some kind of mystical closed source properties [magpiebrain.com] that no-one else can posibly understand or explain!
    ha! how much do i loathe flowery, how i laughed as i downloaded allTheDocs.zip from kazza, now his empire is crumbling around him...

    this puppy is gonna run and run!

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