Phoenix Sounds Death Knell for BIOS 658
Anonymous Coward writes "The sky will fall next.... Betanews is carrying a story about Phoenix ditching the trusty old BIOS and moving to 'Trusted Computing'... ya right... Time to stock up on those old motherboards boys!" A follow-up/analysis on this story.
Trust Me. (Score:4, Funny)
Since when does it make sense to switch the onus for security to hardware?
Oh I knew it was time to buy a Mac [slashdot.org]! With Doom 3 [idsoftware.com] being fully supported on Mac on launch, it's going to be hard for people to criticize Mac for a lack of games [redvsblue.com]. As soon as Uncle Sam rubs his greedy hands together, to try and get all our secrets, it's time for a switch, IMHO. I'm developing my open source Doom 3 project [doomforcolumbine.com] on a Mac, so I'll be playing on one too. Maybe once Doom 3 is on Mac, the next generation of Id-engine-spinoffs will make for a slaughterhouse of new games for Mac, too!
Re:Trust Me. (Score:5, Insightful)
Never, unless of course you meant security for anyone except the computers owner. Then it makes plenty of sense to make the computer a remote-controlled slave terminal...
I wonder if the "trusted" version of Windows will be running programs for third parties, for whom Microsoft has sold their users CPU cycles ? After all, there's allready projects paying for computer time, and DRM would make this secure (impossible forge results). Why let users profit, when one can use them to profit Corporation ?
Re:Trust Me. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Trust Me. (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Trust Me. (Score:3, Funny)
You don't live in CA? That kind of terminology will soon be illegal there.
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:I'll sue if that happens (Score:3, Insightful)
Now to get you in touch with reality:
No, you will not sue.
No, Bill Gates doesn't give a shit about you.
No, if you don't even have the spine to avoid Microsoft products, you also won't have the spine to sue them. You will just shut up, swallow it just like you swallowed WPA and will say that "you will sue" when (not if) they will do the next step.
No, even if you sued you wouldn't have a chance.
Re:I'll sue if that happens (Score:4, Funny)
You will take it the way Microsoft gives it to you, whether this means bend over, or whether it means the swallowing part.
There is a reason that it is called longhorn. Because you're going to really get screwed this time.
Any questions?
Re:Trust Me. (Score:3, Insightful)
This didn't hit me as something that any sane person would want until I realized that this is how cable networks control your local cable provider. They scramble their networks at the control room and authorize cable operators remotely. If the cable operator doesn't pay their bill (or what have you) then the boxes on their end won't de
Re:Trust Me. (Score:3, Insightful)
Right... The problem is how do companys get control of the computer? Would companies be given the ability to configure their computers? Add different OSes? If so, power users will find out how also. If not? Well, I don't see how this would give companies more control.... unless you're the Motherboard manufact
Trust *this* (Score:3, Interesting)
Sorry, but I have worked at way too many companies all sharing the same installation of Windows/Office/etc to believe that they are going to increase their IT budget 10-fold to support DRM. BSA or no.
Let Phoenix go ahead and introduce DRM into the BIOS. There
Re:Trust Me. (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm glad mac users get Doom 3, but a full library of games it does not make.
Re:Trust Me. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Trust Me. (Score:3, Funny)
The last time Apple implimented DRM it was 3 words printed on the back of an iPod: don't steal music.
Re:This will be good for apple (Score:3, Insightful)
Apple's die hard fans will eat it up in the same way that the love the DRM they are subjected to today. Hell, one can hardly point out here that ITMS is DRM without getting modded down by the "we love Jobs the Leader" contigent.
Sure, Apple's implementation might leave the user a little more slack, but they have shown with ITMS that they do want to use DRM, and that their users love it. The fact that ITMS has been
Phoenix PR addy (Score:5, Informative)
Interestingly they outsource their PR.
Above is the address of Megan Kurtz who is their public relations person. Get mailing now
Re:Phoenix PR addy (Score:3, Insightful)
Why should I want to contact a PR person?
What can they do?
I'll communicate with my wallet.
Re:Trust Me. (Score:5, Insightful)
"'Trustworthy computing' means that Microsoft can trust that we didn't hack our (their) system. It doesn't mean that we can trust Microsoft."
Keep saying it until it makes sense.Re:Trust Me. (Score:3, Interesting)
Tim
Re:Trust Me. (Score:3)
You obviously have never heard of DES, that was decades ago. Might want to read a bit on computer security before saying so dumb.
Re:The wackos come out at night (Score:4, Insightful)
Open Firmware [sun.com], anyone? It's only been available for around 15 years or so. Oh, and it's a real IEEE standard, unlike whatever thing Phoenix/Microsoft will be foisting on us.
Confusing? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Confusing? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Confusing? (Score:5, Funny)
Such as SuX, POS or FUBAR ?
No, to describe that new bios, they were all taken
Re:Confusing? (Score:3, Funny)
Look at a list of the hit movies for the last couple of years, if you don't believe me... what are you going to get searching for downloads of 'xXx' ?
Or, buy a Mac... (Score:5, Insightful)
Last time I checked, Phoenix wasn't the only company on Earth that made motherboard BIOS setups.
I'm sure that something else will pop up.
Or, another idea.. write/call/visit Phoenix and tell them that you think their idea sucks. Give their 1-800 # a call. Vote with your wallet, as usual.
Re:Or, buy a Mac... (Score:5, Informative)
Another alternative... OpenFirmware (Score:4, Insightful)
I'll bet Apple will stick with OF on PPC for a long time, and implement hardware DRM as a separate feature.
Re:Another alternative... OpenFirmware (Score:3, Interesting)
So who's going to make the Linux zealot motherboards for the 5% of the population that doesn't want to run MSFT/DRM-crippled crapware?
Same thing behind Linux gaming... it hasn't been lagging behind Winblows because gaming on Linux is fundamentally flawed, it's just because that's not where the market is. Clash of open source/free software versus capitalism.
Or better yet, it's because MS will successfully continue their anti-competitiv
Re:Another alternative... OpenFirmware (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Or, buy a Mac... (Score:5, Insightful)
Nope, that won't help. ALL bios makers are implementing Trusted computing. Why? Because all motherboard manufactures are installing Trusted Computing encryption chips on ALL new motherboards. Why? Because Microsoft has declared that thir next operating system will only run on Trusted Computing hardware and it is flat-out IMPOSSIBLE to sell hardware if it can't run Windows.
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Re:Or, buy a Mac... (Score:5, Interesting)
This is stupid. If no motherboards adopted trusting computing, it'd be fucking hard to sell Windows.
Re:Or, buy a Mac... (Score:5, Insightful)
Face it, Microsoft dictates what desktop hardware looks like. This is not a good thing, but it's not an easy thing to change.
Re:Or, buy a Mac... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Or, buy a Mac... (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsoft has NEVER said its next operating system would only run on Trusted Computing hardware, and I know for a fact that this is NOT the case.
Longhorn will run on normal PCs like we have today.
Re:Or, buy a Mac... (Score:4, Informative)
Microsoft has NEVER said its next operating system would only run on Trusted Computing hardware, and I know for a fact that this is NOT the case.
Longhorn will run on normal PCs like we have today.
Lets take a look at the MICRSOFT WEBSITE:
Q: What is the Next-Generation Secure Computing Base? [microsoft.com]
A: The Next-Generation Secure Computing Base (NGSCB) is new security technology for the Microsoft(R) Windows(R) platform. It will be included as part of an upcoming version of the Microsoft Windows operating system, code-named "Longhorn." NGSCB employs a unique hardware and software design to enable new kinds of secure computing capabilities to provide enhanced data protection, privacy and system integrity.
Q: What is the "trusted computing base (TCB)" component of NGSCB?
A: The trusted computing base (TCB) includes the nexus and all the associated software and services required to enable the NGSCB environment.
Q: What is the "TPM"? Is that the same as the SSC?
A: The term "SSC" is generally interchangeable with "TPM" or trusted platform module. The TPM is a secure computing hardware module specified by the Trusted Computing Group
Please try to check your facts next time. The future Microsoft operating system will ONLY run if your computer contains a "Trusted Platfom Module", better known as TCPA.
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Re:Or, buy a Mac... (Score:3, Insightful)
Of course MS will support the TCB in Longhorn - where does it say non-TCB machines will be entirely unsupported?
Re:Or, buy a Mac... (Score:5, Insightful)
"...and it is flat-out IMPOSSIBLE to sell hardware if it can't run Windows."
Gosh... I'm sure all the used computer stores are going to be horrified to hear that all the Sun SPARC and other non-PC systems they've been selling regularly never really sold at all. And how about all those systems from SGI?
My own Internet presence? 101% dependent on a series of hardware platforms that (with one exception) cannot, due to their architecture, run any MS Windows product at all. The folks that sold me the equipment had no problem taking my money, and I had no problem putting it out.
Sarcasm aside, what I'm saying is that it is far from "impossible" to sell hardware that does not run Windows. It's just a matter of what audience it gets sold to.
My second thought has to do with the encryption/DRM/whatever hardware that, supposedly, is going to be built into future motherboard hardware. I will grant that I'm fairly paranoid, perhaps more so than others, but even I have to wonder if we're not taking the molehill of Phoenix's announcement and turning it into another Mt. Rainier.
More specifically: It strikes me that it will be up to OS makers to determine what hardware features of a motherboard their OS will use, and which ones it will not. There will always be OS choices, and I have zero evidence at this time that open-source (notably the BSDs) will not run on systems using Phoenix's CSS.
On the other wing, it's a given that Bill-ware OS's will take advantage of every hardware feature that they can in terms of DRM and other such crap, all designed to limit fair use rights. Even so, there's going to be a ton of people that Just Want to Run Windows, and that's not going to change either.
Know what? THAT'S OK TOO! If someone is bound and determined (and lazy enough) to let themselves be led around by the nose, computing-wise, then that's their thing. Let 'em have it!
Once again, it all comes down to knowledge. The amount of control you have over the technology in your life is DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL to how much you choose to learn about how it works (or how much of it you even choose -- or not -- to use at all).
Keep the peace(es).
Re:Or, buy a Mac... (Score:4, Insightful)
To the best of my knowledge the following companies make hardware that does not run Windows (tm):
Sun
IBM
Apple
Cray
SGI
NEC
Honda
BMW
Ge
Ford
Dictaphone
Motorola
Nokia
You get the picture. You're talking strictly about end user desktop hardware. Even in that niche market where Microsoft dominates, it is not impossible.
This "trusted computing" may be the one big thing that changes the domination of that market. From the tone of what I read, here and elsewhere, most people agree that this "trustworthy computing" is not a good thing. If that's the case then the issues surrounding it should drive the market to seek alternatives. Any company that offers an alternative should prosper.
And even if the masses act like lemmings, there will always be a market of those of us who just won't play that game. There will also be the market of those who, for business or security reasons, can't play that game. That should leave enough of a market for non-Microsoft controlled hardware. Enough of a market for some people to make decent livings and put thier kids through school.
Ya'll are so doom and gloom around here. Wake up and smell the coffee. Microsoft does not rule the entire world nor will they ever. Their marketing department may have you thinking so, but that's not the case. You may be surrounded by PC's running Windows but that's not the case for everyone, some of us live rich, full lives without it. A fork in the hardware is simply a fork in the hardware. Such forks already exist as I mentioned above, there are already plenty of computers that do not run Windows and life will continue to be that way.
A Tipping point (Score:4, Interesting)
Here are some forces working against success of a transition to trusted computing the open source community should think about and could leverage to their advantage:
There is a huge installed base of non trusted machines. As soon as you start penalizing machines for being untrusted on the net there will be a lot of unhappy users that may balk at being forced to buy an all new hardware/software setup to gain entry. Instead the net may engage in the self repairing behavior its known for and just route around the trusted parts of the net. One way I can see getting around this is to sell a trusted hardware/OS for a number of years so the platforms is pervasive before trying to kill untrusted platforms.
Its doubtful China or many other country outside the U.S. is going to buy into a system as intrusive and big brotherish as this is, especially when dictated from the U.S. which no one trusts any more. Asia may manufacture trusted hardware to sell to the U.S. but I'm skeptical they they will use it themselves unless places like China develop their own mutation which they control and can use to control their citizens. Asia seems to be moving to Linux and working to develop their own processors to gaurd against being subjected to heavy handed dictates, like this, from Microsoft, Intel and the NSA. If the U.S. gets the EU's backing in this they might have some chance of success. If the U.S. presses ahead alone they might well manage to destroy their market dominance in computing to be replaced by Asia or Europe.
There is a huge pool of legacy software that people are going to insist keep running. Either TCP machines are going to run untrusted software or its unlikely people are going to accept it or want to buy it. Until TCP platforms have a compelling body of trusted software they wont succeeed. Maybe they can sandbox untrusted software but it seems like untrusted software goes against the grain of everything trusted computing is.
There are still a bunch of powerful hardware vendors including Apple, IBM, HP, Dell and SUN that are backing Unix/Linux to one extent or another that are unlikely to subscribe to a hardware lock in that would kill them. As long as we can switch to PowerPC and keep on trucking who really cares, especially now that PowerPC is close to parity with Intel.
Despite all the doom and gloom I think this could be a boon to Open Source. Microsoft has never really attempted a transition this disruptive to backward compatibility. If people are faced with a transition that destroys legacy software and hardware and appears excessibely intrusive and monopolistic, a lot of countries, companies, developers and consumers may take this opportunity to really opt out of Wintel's hegemony.
There is one real danger though. The U.S. government along with some kind of coalition of the willing could try to pass laws and trade restrictions to make Trusted Computing happen in the name of the "Never Ending War on Terrorism". I would have never believed this to be possible a couple years ago but at this point, especially if we get another four years of Bush and Ashcroft it seems extremely plausible. In this scenario it would be illegal to build or import hardware in coalition countries that did not conform to trusted computing standards and after some transition period it would be illegal to hook non trusted platforms to the Internet. This would almost inevitably lead to a fracturing of the Internet in to at least two disconnected pieces, one free and one not free. Would it be possible to create a clandestine, free, wireless network in the U.S. if the government outlawed a free Internet. How could we cr
Re:Or, buy a Mac... (Score:5, Insightful)
Because I am a programmer and I have read the technical specification document and I understand exactly how it works and exactly what it does.
If you don't want to support Trusted Computing then just disable it
Read my other posts for examples of the problems you will face if you disable it. Ultimately, the new Cisco routers can deny you an internet connection. These new routers are advertized as an anti-virus measure, but they refuse you an internet connection if you are not Trusted Computing compliant.
Trusted Computing is meant to help the user secure their system from unsigned code
Incorrect. Trusted Computing allows any code to run, signed or not. This is a mjor selling point of Trusted Computing - it is fully backwards compatible and ALL old software still runs. And when I say "all", I mean ALL, and that includes viruses.
It would take several pages for a full explanation of how trusted computing actually works. In sort it really only does two things:
Number one, it scrambles your data so that YOU can't read or use it except in the way someone else has permitted you to read or use it.
For example Trusted Computing would not have stopped the Blaster worm. Blaster could infect your computer and run just fine. It could even delete all of your data. The only thing the virus wouldn't be able to do is read your files. For example if you bought a music download, the virus cannor read or steal that song. But the virus is perfectly capable of deleting that song.
Actually Trusted Computing probably would allow the virus to "steal" the song because the music service will almost certainly include some method to move songs from one computer to another. The ironic thing is that Trusted Computing will FORCE the virus to delete your copy of the song in the process of "stealing" it and moving it out onto someone else's computer. Trusted Computing doesn't care if YOUR files get stolen or deleted, just so long as no one can make COPIES of the song. Trusted Computing enforces DRM.
The second thing Trusted Computing does is to act as an "informer" against you, telling other people exactly what you have running on your computer so that those other people can deny you access unless you comply with the rules they set. For example the New York Times webserver could enforce registration and prevent you from copying articles or images. Disable Trusted Computing on your machine and you can't see the website at all.
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Re:Or, buy a Mac... (Score:5, Informative)
Phoenix Technologies Ltd.
915 Murphy Ranch Road
Milpitas, CA 95035
Toll Free 1.800.677.7305
Main 1.408.570.1000
Fax 1.408.570.1001
Re:Or, buy a Mac... (Score:5, Funny)
Assuming that it will continue be legal to make motherboards without DRM. After all, only a music-sharing communist hippie open-source fundamentalist copyright-infringing file-sharer would want them.
Re:Or, buy a Mac... (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps someone will tell us what the benefits of the randomly-changeable bios are.
LinuxBios (Score:5, Insightful)
FLASH?? (Score:4, Insightful)
LinuxBIOS (Score:5, Interesting)
OpenBIOS (Score:5, Informative)
Re:LinuxBIOS (Score:5, Insightful)
I see two different ways Phoenix could go about doing this. Either all BIOS changes will come from official sources and be signed by Phoenix (with the sigs checked in hardware), or the BIOS will be completely static, and users will be forced to buy a new mobo whenever something major changes.
Either way, I don't think you will be able to buy a board with Phoenix preloaded and just wipe it off.
Re:LinuxBIOS (Score:5, Interesting)
That said, I see now with AMD64 that the CPU is the memory controller, so maybe it won't be so bad.
Re:LinuxBIOS (Score:5, Interesting)
If they hadn't invented that, someone else would (Score:5, Funny)
DeCSS anyone?
Microsoft? (Score:5, Interesting)
Tinfoil hat (Score:3, Funny)
Phoenix is burning (Score:5, Funny)
Scary (Score:5, Insightful)
Why do I find leveraging any single crypto or security solution from one single vendor for the entire system worthy of concern more than trust? Nevermind that it's Microsoft, with an examplary track record of security expertise and openness with standards.
Not for me, nosiree.
brockman (Score:5, Funny)
Anyone got a list? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Anyone got a list? (Score:4, Informative)
IBM BIOS: IBM PCs and laptops
AMI BIOS: umm.. I don't think anyone uses them anymore
Pheonix BIOS: everyone else
Since Pheonix bought out Award, they are basically the only player in the BIOS market.
Re:Anyone got a list? (Score:3, Informative)
MSI [msi.com.tw] uses AMI, even on their recent mainboards...
"Intrinsic security", eh? (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, guess what, writing high quality software is hard. Writing high quality, secure software is *really* hard. And there's nothing that will change that.
Re:"Intrinsic security", eh? (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsoft has sold the last several versions of all of its products by telling us how much more we could do with them. Truthfully, they were primarily produced to pack more cash into the MS vaults.
Can't you hear the product development guys? They're not saying "let's put together this new trusted computing thing to make computers more secure." They're saying "let's put together a system to lock users into our stuff and get Pheonix et al to make hardware that locks out Linux. We'll call it 'trusted computing' and sell it by telling everyone it will make things more secure."
3 steps:
1. Make the product that helps your business
2. Tell the consumers it will help their business
3. Profit.
This one really works.
they'll find out.. (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:they'll find out.. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:they'll find out.. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:they'll find out.. (Score:3, Informative)
They won't. See SCOX. The problem is that Microsoft has *WAY TOO MUCH* money, and the U.S. has too many spineless politicians. The investors will see this as a market oppurtunity. The entire U.S. economy is so tied into Microsoft, that it has now become a *huge* pyramid scheme. If you are already a Microsoft stockholder, and you see the current stock market condition, you are pretty stuck these days. They must prop up
Re:they'll find out.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Who do you think the marketplace is? A bunch of disgrunted hobbyists? No, the serious market is system integrators - companies, large and small that assemble computers. If they are selling to corporate customers, these system integrators may want to deliver computers that can't be tampered with by users. Many corporate sysadmins might welcome additional weapons to fight against viruses, pirate
CCS and EFI ... What a Kludge! (Score:4, Informative)
Time for LinuxBIOS www.LinuxBIOS.org [linuxbios.org]
The sky isn't falling. The sky HAS Fallen. (Score:5, Interesting)
Without those specifications, the routers will reject packets from Linux and BSD computers (because they will be seen by the routers as being infected because they cannot give the expected response) and therefore only 'approved' (read: microsoft, and perhaps -perhaps- apple) operating systems will have access to the internet.
And now, with the access to the hardware cut off by "trusted computing"'s subsitution for the bios; open source operating systems won't even be able to write to the computer hardware itself.
(my ex-gf pointed out that someone can crack that the way the xbox was cracked, but that is not taking the DMCA into account, which would prevent any 'respectable' projects from being able to use any code generated illegally).
To top things off, the final piece of the puzzle may be the fact that europe is on the verge of adopting 'software patents', which gives Microsoft the foot in the door to sue anyone who designs a half-way decent GUI into obscurity...and this will be coming soon to a formerly free democratic republic near you.
In short, Open Source computing is a concept whose day has come and now has gone, and it's time to either get back to chasing 'warez' or give up on computers entirely.
Unless there's something I'm missing here. But after reading slashdot for the last three or four years, I really doubt that there is.
Re:The sky isn't falling. The sky HAS Fallen. (Score:5, Interesting)
In a few years we will have 2 well established 'streams' of computing.
The first will be 'consumer' computers. Largely owned by fairly well off, but technically naive westerners in the US and Europe,this stream of computing will be Microsoft based, include DMCA and trusted computing models. It will be a very one way, consumer broadcast model allowing those who have money and no sense about their privacy to be pampered with choice, watch DVD movies and whatever other Hollywood rubbish they want piped straight from AOL/Time/Warner/Microsoft HQ.
There will remain a growing second stream of computing. Largely comprised of businesses, programmers, geeks, military, government and health organisations, and for the most part the other 70-80 % of the worlds people who live in poorer conditions. Such users have no use for 'consumer' code. It will either be stripped out (regardless of any legal impedements - be realistic) or will come from manufacturers in China and the East where the freaks in Washington will be powerless to interfere in the economics of demand.
Users of each class of computing will be very different in lifestyle and psychology. The former consumers only receive and pay money.
The latter group are producers, or 'participants in the world' as I like to call them.
Eventually these streams will be entirely incompatible, consumer computing will become more like TV.
Eventually the former 'consumer' hardware will not even be considerd 'COMPUTERS' , being so crippled and controlled as not to function as general purpose computing devices (as Turing would have it).
Eventually the former class of devices will die out as society changes from a mindless consumer mentality to an active population (or dies out itself, as a matter of deductive logic eitherway the consumer technolgy dies)
Computers fit a particular definition - they are general purpose ordination devices - make them any less capable and they are no longer computers and cannot be sold as such.
Re:The sky isn't falling. The sky HAS Fallen. (Score:3, Insightful)
Very often, we, the geeks (heh), are in a position to recommend (or buy) hardware for companies/clients/friends/relatives, and if we just recommend them to not buy anything with such restrictions built in (making our base by saying how 'restricted' the Hardware/OS is - as opposed to "where do you want to go today?") the world would be a happier and friendlier place
Another 'big' issue i
The sky is falling? Bring a hard-hat. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:The sky isn't falling. The sky HAS Fallen. (Score:3, Interesting)
Yeah. Supply & Demand.
If/When the bait and switch occurs, people will begin to realize that "Trusted Computing" means that they're the ones not being trusted, and their freedom to do as they please has been taken by megacorps. No more mp3s? No more pirated Windows or Office or Games? Not being able to print an image off some website? Having your camcorder shutdown when it detects MPAA/RIAA-tagged content? What the fuck?!
That's leaves a gaping hole for a hu
Best quote (Score:4, Funny)
People PAY Gartner for conclusions like that?
Gartner Gibberish (Score:5, Insightful)
People pay Gartner for worse... managers and marketing people are always looking for pre-digested "facts" to allow them to make decisions without doing any real research. I used to work as a technical marketing manager, and dealt with Gartner (and other analysts) frequently. Their level of expertise is suspect, and they issue definitive statements with questionable data.
Remember their noises about "Total Cost of Ownership" a few years ago? I applied their methodology to a teakettle, and established that the TCO of said teakettle was well over $4,000.
Submit to Trusted Computing or be DENIED internet! (Score:5, Interesting)
ISP's can install these new Cisco routers and you will be denied internet access unless you submit to Trusted Computing.
The routers are advertized as fighting "viruses", but they do not in fact scan for or block viruses. What they do is first check if you are running Trusted Computing. If not they deny you a connection. They can then be configured to verify that you are running specific software such as up to date anti-virus software.
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Re:Submit to Trusted Computing or be DENIED intern (Score:4, Interesting)
No, this most definitely for corporate networks... Some point-haired boss will approve the acquisition of these machines after listening to a sales pitch that came with free sushi and a lucky winner getting a trip to the Bahamas. Suddenly, the mailserver, corporate IM server, and print servers won't work.
"Why aren't these working?" The PHB will ask.
"Because that router you bought refuses the connection, complaining about 'trusted computing. I'm turning it off now," says the dirty haired sysadmin.
"Turning off trusted computing? Aren't we using all Microsoft solutions?"
"No, that would be an extra 20k per year, plus switching costs, downtime, viruses, worms, etc."
"They have scanners for that. Besides, Microsoft has better sushi chefs."
"It's a bad idea."
"Switch it all or I'll replace you with someone who will."
"O.K."
The Dirty Haired Sysadmin will dutifly switch all of the servers over, and will subsequently be fired after the fifth worm attacks the network.
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
say what? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:say what? (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm curious. Does anyone know a reason why a PC BIOS chip couldn't be swapped with an OpenFirmware chip? I assume there are a few details such as launch location (0x07F0 IIRC) which must be taken into account. Plus, many OSes may have difficulties if the BIOS is not present. However, both those problems are fixable. Does anyone know of other issues?
More Info:
OpenFirmware [openfirmware.org]
Free OpenFirmware Implementation [openbios.org]
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Changing problem (Score:4, Interesting)
That may be an bigger problem if other BIOS vendors do the same thing.
After all maybe we are all forced to back to old Altair 800 days. Or to stay with current owned hardware and wait on market selfregulation (if no one buy an new HW/SW combination vendors must change rules if they want to survive). Or to buy an hardware which doesn't have TC/DRM/... features.
CSS? (Score:5, Funny)
When will we have DeCSS?
Bill Gates responds.. (Score:3, Funny)
All your Motherboard are belong to us!
You are on the way to destruction.
You have no chance to survive make your time.
HA HA HA HA
Nothing to worry about (Score:4, Funny)
(1) Microsoft makes Trusted Computing stuff.
(2) Nothing Microsoft makes is secure.
therefore
(3) Trusted Computing will be easily hackable so that it can be replaced with another BIOS.
Now, Microsoft will probably and try to make this illegal, just like they have tried to make mod chips illegal. Last time I checked, though, it was perfectly legal to hack your own PC or other hardware.
Huh? (Score:3, Offtopic)
Phoenix is not alone in moving toward such changes. Chip giant Intel has pushed for a predecessor to BIOS it calls the Intel Platform Innovation Framework for EFI (Extensible Firmware Interface).
How does one push for a "predecessor" to something? Is that like back to the future? It makes me wonder about the rest of the article.
This Is Great News (Score:5, Interesting)
Industry standard company ditching their flagship product; consumer demand for said product remains strong; product still selling.
I'll use my contacts, call some venture capitalists, and get the ball rolling.
OK. Not really. But you get the idea. Whenever something like this happens, too many people pessimisticly assume that nothing can be done about it. They remind me of C3PO--"we're all doomed.".
No. You're not doomed. Crisis. Opportunity. Mmmmm... Crisitunity.
Not All Countries .... Not All Windows (Score:5, Insightful)
In fact, it would be very surprising to me that most of the EU coutnries would submit to this kind of US verndor lock-in. I would expect to see non-TCP motherboards available for a while.
And when parts of the internet are "closed off" by TCP "checking" routers, then all holy hell will break loose. Wait until our neighbors can't get to "playboy.com"
A little while more and bios won't even exist. (Score:3, Insightful)
Bios's are almost identical, to the point that you can probably marginalize them into the driver category of most OS's these days. In a few years BIOS won't exist or if it does, it'll exist in some convoluted fashon or version of what it is today. I personally like the idea of having a bios on the hardware; something to tell me what's broken, give me error codes, etc. I see it as something that, due to being inexpensive will gain features such as full text error code outputs or if persay some obscure component on the motherboard died, instead of outputing moorse code it can give you a voice readout "Motherboard component 74x0x06 is dead. This is a fatal failure and the motherboard is dead, please return to manufacturer".
Either way, I don't think motherboard manufacturers will go ahead and start installing distribuited computing garble on their machines so that they can only be used by microsoft systems. It'll kill their market share in other markets such as server markets and it'll also make them susseptable to future abuse.
Well there goes the industry again. Right. (Score:5, Insightful)
Also I'm upset because it's impossible to get around the DVD regions and watch discs from other countries. Asia fears the DMCA so much that it's impossible to find a player that does not submit to the region codes.
ok
Seriously, this isn't going to work. Taiwan will have cloned BIOSes out faster than you can say "Overclocking is popular!" and warez groups will have the can only run on trusted hardware feature of the next windows cracked faster than you can say "Product Activation".
Give it 8 months. Even if there isn't an outcry that gets it reversed or ignorable like the P3 chip codes, I'm betting some major MB manufacturer *coughABITcough* will have something like, dual bios, trusted/untrusted with a toggle between them.
As for network routers killing "untrusted" clients, how do businesses expect to keep their linux servers on the network? Yeah, I think either we'll be seeing other OSes support it, or it'll be turned off more often than on. Also what about network-aware appliances like attatched storage, printers etc? I doubt it'll be that easy to convince businesses to just toss them as incompatible. They probably will just patch their existing windows desktops and stay on 2000, xp, or 2003 or whatever doesn't have this nuisance. I know tons of places that still refuse to move up from 2000 to XP.
Also, if only "trusted" software runs, I'm curious how students will do programming assignments on their computers at college. Do they just stand in line for the woefully inadequate lab resources? Do they get "special for academic use only" versions of windows and MSVC that allows them to execute their own code? What does it mean for professional developers, no development station can ever be on the network because it can't be trusted? That's going to make for some intersting development and testing work.
Re:Hmmm (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Hmmm (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Hmmm (Score:5, Insightful)
For hundreds of years joe sixpack and his friends have gotten weaker and weaker. The big recognizable first piece was centralized citizenship after the civil war, prior to that the only citizens of the USA lived in washington, everybody else was a citizen of their state which in turn was a member of the union.
Next came the military, the constitution set up a division of powers, the central government was not supposed to have a standing army, that was supposed to be left to the states, while the central government maintained the navy. This wasn't random, it gave the states themselves the greatest power in domestic defense and limited the central government to only the direct military power to counter foreign foes (of course the militia's could be rallied). The air force was of course not covered in the Constitution. If you pay attention you'll notice the central government makes sure they are covered if this falls through, the navy is still the most highly funded of the forces, having within it all 3 types of armed forces. The Marines for instance are really just a subset of the Navy. The Navy's air power and number of craft are almost as extensive as the air force itself. And I guess it goes without saying, the navy of course has a navy
Now after centralizing authority and military power the government then started disarming the citizens. Deciding to do no more than pay lip service to the 2nd amendment (after all the government certainly doesn't feel people might need arms to overthrow it like the forefathers who had to do just that did when they put it in!). Now guns are being taken away, the classes of arms available to citizens has been reduced and reduced, arms are VERY closely watched by our police state.
Since these things became stronger, than the last significant threat (assault riffles) has been removed from citizens hands, the government has proceeded to clench down. Showing it's force in foreign countries (iraq for instance), using "Terrorism" which was likely at least inadvertantly funded by our own CIA as an excuse to give federal agents more and more authority to lock down and control the population.
Now to ensure Joe sixpack complies with all this they have been brainwashing him in school. School curriculum's are of course regulated by the state. They have to be in accordance with state tests, if you've noticed the state regulations tend to be most specific in matters of US History, where the government makes sure that text books and tests teach the materials in it's own interpretation of history. The interpretation that paints a picture of country being oppressed and fighting the good fight for independence. Supporting the common man etc etc etc. Rather than the truth, a bunch of rich men, did not like paying taxes and did not like the fact that england had given trade monopolies to rich men in england instead of them. Well over 80% of the population were loyal to the crown, more than that before war happened an innocents were caught in the crossfire. The enlistments in that war and pretty much every patriotic cause thereafter have been founded on a grain of truth buried in a stack of propoganda.
Our government lies to us and herds of us like sheep. It teaches us a revised history in school. It teaches conformity in school. Picture our children being stamped one by one in a great convoluted Jello mold. It convinces us to give up our liberties one piece at a time. It okay to whine about one piece or another, but it happens so often on such a regular basis nowdays we hardly remember what
Re:Hmmm (Score:3, Informative)
>than the last significant threat (assault riffles) has been removed from citizens hands, the government has proceeded to clench down.
I'm pro-gun, but you are in error. Existing "assault rifles" are still in the hands of many citizens - legally. In addition, most of what what makes a rifle an "assault rifle" are the sights and magazine capacity. But what really gives a rifle its punch is the caliber, not the scary-looking accoutrements. You can still buy many excellent performing bolt action and se
Re:Hmmm (Score:3, Funny)
Didn't you know? Lysergic Acid (LSD) is a highly effective deprogramming tool. The youthful experimenting of the sixties cleared all that conformist shit right out of their heads....
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Re:Hmmm (Score:4, Insightful)
If there's a market, there will be people to cater to it.
Re:Hmmm (Score:5, Informative)
Sorry, but... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Let's count our blessings. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Why is slashdot's memory so short? (Score:4, Insightful)
I remember that interview. He danced around the primary issue which is "Will you make a motherboard that will refuse to boot non-MS signed bootloaders or kernels?". Basically all mobo manufacturers will implement this stuff (Longhorn Certified!) and part of the specs will specify that it is mandatory. The customer won't be able to do without it.