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Toys Technology

Neat Stuff In Sin City: CES 2004 173

Posted by timothy from the congratulations-my-brother dept.
Sex, liquor and gambling are not Las Vegas' only tempting vices -- there are electronics, too. The 2004 Consumer Electronics Show is in full swing. Below is a informal report from the show floor: I've been walking around the place ogling flat screens of all varieties (plus one close-to-flat screen, details below) and seeking the elusive perfect portable music player I'm after. Read on to learn about some of the interesting products being hawked, and about some things for which you'll have to wait.

Even for convention-happy Vegas, CES is one of the city's biggest annual events -- approximately 120,000 attendees and more than 2,000 vendors have gathered to sell, buy or window-shop all sorts of electronic and related products, from high-end turntables (for pre-digital music stored on extruded polyvinyl) to message-scrolling LED badges, batteries and chargers, metal detectors, digital cameras, strange-looking MP3 jukeboxes, LED-strewn computer cases, and more.

Repeat: CES is not necessarily about computers -- at least it's not centered around devices with keyboards, rectangular CPUs and monitors. There's plenty of computer industry action here -- Michael Dell is one of the keynote speakers, for instance, and several of the biggest exhibitors are computer manufacturers -- but the "consumer" part of Consumer Electronics Show is an unsubtle hint that anything which beeps, glows, plays recorded music, takes batteries, or has a circuit board buried somewhere within is fair game. (I'll skip details on some of the products that slip past even this catch-all description, among them ceramic figurines and other gimcracks.) There are companies represented who will cast your industrial design in aluminum, and one which will let you do the shaping yourself, but in plastic. There's no way to see everything here; here are some impressions of what I did see, though.

May I interest you in a humongous television?

Plasma and LCD displays are everywhere at CES, in the form of new but current products, prototypes to whet your appetite for next year, and as visual aids selling other products. The ongoing switch in the U.S. to digital broadcasting and the uncertainty attached to early adopter purchases generally make me glad not to be in desperate need of a television right now, but the home-entertainment hardware on display is enough to make my eyes water. LG, both inside the show and on a billboard outside the convetion, proclaims that they have the world's first 76" plasma television (their booth has this on display, and many smaller ones as well), while Samsung's giant blue-themed booth tops that by featuring a crowd-paralyzing 80" model; people stood to watch the demo loop, which was mostly natural imagery rather than the bikini show running on many other companies' sets.

(This display, and LG's 76" model, brings up a point that seems to generalize well to many of the claims made at CES and in less overt marketing circumstances as well: Samsung calls theirs the world's first 80" plasma TV, but they also are showing a 70" model inexplicably labeled "The World's First Plasma TV." These companies are far from the only ones making dubious contradictory claims; the standard of evidence to be a "world's first" at CES seems lower than you might expect.)

TV and monitor overload is easy: Toshiba, Panasonic, Sony, Philips, Sony, Aquos (made by Sharp), Daewoo, Apex, ViewSonic, and other brands more or less familiar to electronics-friendly American householders all had their LCD displays out, both computer-only and TV-friendly devices. So did low-end, badge-stamping names like LennoxSound and Coby; some of the Coby displays had lifelike paper screen mockups rather than actual moving images. (If you're in the market for a flat-screen television, beware that some LCD televisions are really only monitors; if you need a tuner, don't assume one is built it.)

LCD computer monitors are now so mainstream that nothing stands out as spectacular in what I saw of this year's crop, though it's nice to see that bigger models are eroding 20" as a gigantic-LCD standard and pushing it down to merely large: suffice it to say, 20" LCDs may remain in the high end of computer displays for a little while, but far larger ones are now at the high end.

While on the topic of big-screen displays, two products from InFocus stand out: First is their 7"-thick, 61" screen (the model is labeled Screenplay RPTV; this may change before it ships), which is easy to confuse with a plasma model, but it's not -- it's actually a rear-projection system that's had its guts folded into a silvery rectangle taking up about a foot of vertical space beneath the display's screen. This rearrangement means it lacks the spare, picture-frame look of most plasma TVs, but the result still whips old-style console sets. Pricing is not yet set (it's not shipping until later this year), and smiling InFocus representatives deflected the question of price from several people, including me, only hinting that it would be cheaper than similarly-sized plasma models. And only your aesthetics and stud placement can determine whether a near-100-pound television qualifies as "hangable" for you. A 70" version is set to follow.

The second product, happily, does have a price; unhappily, that price is $2700. That much money buys you their LP120 model, introduced earlier this year, which InFocus says is the smallest XGA projector on the market -- it's about the size of a 5-pound block of cheddar cheese, weighs less (a hair less than two pounds) and has to be seen to be believed. It sits strictly in the middle end of the brightness scale (1000 lumens) but on the moderately lit convention floor, the image is actually hard to distinguish from that of a non-projected screen. I'm not sure at what price I would buy this (I would really like to take a projector this size along with me, everywhere), but at almost three grand (and replacement bulbs are the industry-norm 2000/hour life, $300-400 replacement cost) this is for business travelers and jillionaires more than those of us who'd like to watch "L.A. Confidential" in a hotel room.

Black boxes for your humongous television.

The electronics industry would obviously like you to buy a big (expensive) display of some sort, and they're happy to help supply moving images to make it worthwhile. "Convergence boxes," with different logos on the front, but with for the most part similar capabilities and interfaces, are on display from many manufacturers. Convergence is like perfection, though -- the pursuit is worthy, but ongoing. There will always be new file formats, media, and output devices to fold in.

Drawing a composite sketch, this year's standard-issue convergence box runs embedded Linux like TiVo (for instance Daewoo's DX C811N Digital Video Recorder) and in many cases the TiVo name (under license), holds a hard drive from 80-120GB (like Toshiba and Panasonic are offering), features composite and S-Video outputs (nearly every maker), lets you record to DVD-RAM or DVD-RW/+RW, and is still at standard resolution (rather than High Definition). High Definition PVRs will eventually arrive in force; I bet they'll be next year's big trend of the show. Also next year, you'll probably see more all-in-one boxes which can play back WMV files; one Microsoft display area was showing off the first WMV-capable DVD player, the Malata DiVA DVR-489. Confusingly enough, a few feet away Microsoft was giving out sample DVDs with WMV format high-density program examples; these can't be played back (for now) in anything but a PC running Windows; the Malata and similar, soon-to-market players are for standard definition only.

(The Daewoo PVR I mentioned, by the way, is really a different beast altogether, built for things like monitoring multiple security cameras: I lust for the built-in 8-way video multiplexer).

Considering that PVRs are becoming ever more commoditized, I hope that Apex's prototype PVR-9280 (with a DVD burner as well as an internal hard drive) becomes a reality. When I asked about that, Sal Fiore from Apex did what a lot of exhibitors at CES have to do: he hedged, resorting to a smile and calling it "a definite possibility." Though known as at best a medium-grade electronics brand, Apex has followed the path of eMachines by making more impressive products over the last few years. I'd be happy to find the PVR equivalent to today's low-end DVD players.

On the high end, though, Samsung was showing a working and very polished looking Blu-Ray recorder, which they say will be able to store up to two hours of high density programming (and 12 hours of standard) per Blu-Ray disk. (Blu-Ray, mentioned briefly here, is an optical format storing up to 27GB on a CD-sized disk.)

And now for something completely obscure ...

Since I'm in the market for a portable Ogg Vorbis player, I've asked at several of the manufacturer's booths whether they plan to support it, and specifically whether they will sell CD-based units with Vorbis decoders. (I've been encoding my CDs to Vorbis for the last few years; YMMV, but I like it.)

The results are about what I'd expect: a polite "not on our radar screen" is the gist of responses from representatives at Creative, Sony, and nearly all the other Big Names; at the lower-end makers booths (who, after all, make things like $40 MP3 CD players available at mass-market retailers), I never even found anyone who'd heard of Ogg. iRiver is the current standout in this regard, since they're releasing firmware to make their CD-based players Ogg-friendly; I'll be visiting iRiver's product lounge soon to take a look at their current lineup. I also found flash-based players from Samsung and Rio.

This isn't surprising in the crowded world of audio codecs: MP3 has the benefit of years of market saturation; Microsoft has the research and marketing clout to develop and license WMA; and the Apple touch, via ITMS, has make AAC a nearly overnight contender. (Microsoft was showing off in a dedicated booth a few dozen models of portable audio players, like the Rio Nitrus, that will play WMA files in addition to MP3s, including the smallest 20GB hard-drive based model I've yet encountered, the not-yet-in-the-U.S. Toshiba Gigabeat MEG200J. Think of portable audio as sculpted by Minox.)

However, I did find one working CD-based Ogg-playing portable (model MCD-CM600, part of the "Yepp" line) on display in the Samsung area. "On display" is pushing things; several examples of the player were on hand, but behind plexiglas as window dressing rather than as a demonstration product. A company representative did some Won-to-dollars calculation, and said the player is available in Korea for between $130-140 dollars at current exchange rates, but that Samsung had no current plans to sell it in the U.S.

Tomorrow, look for a report collecting some of the wackier (and stupider) stuff at the show -- like a Segway do-alike (sans balancing brains and with more wheels), the electronic home of the future as seen from 1982, interesting swag, and the sad fate of the Wurlitzer name.
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Neat Stuff In Sin City: CES 2004 More

Neat Stuff In Sin City: CES 2004

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  • Wow... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Quasar1999 ( 520073 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @07:03PM (#7941039) Journal
    But the real question is, did you go to Star Trek the Experience at the Hilton? Cuz if not, your review ain't worth shit, as you're not a true geek...

    Anxiously awaiting reply before taking article seriously... :)

  • OGG Portable Players (Score:5, Informative)

    by daveaitel ( 598781 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @07:03PM (#7941043) Homepage Journal
    I find the iRiver HP-120 to be a great little device. It has a nice long (8+hours) battery life, enough space to fit my whole collection almost, and plays ogg beautifully. Buy a set of panasonic sound reduction headphones and your plane experience is a lot nicer...

    http://www.immunitysec.com/
    -dave

    • However, if I do break down and get a hard-drive based portable, the Rio Karma looks nicest to me -- good interface, ethernet jack (on dock), plays FLAC even (does that iRiver?).

      timothy

      • Re:the iRiver is nice (Score:5, Informative)

        by Josh Booth ( 588074 ) <joshbooth2000 AT yahoo DOT com> on Saturday January 10, 2004 @07:35PM (#7941261)
        CNet.com review [cnet.com]
        NewEgg.com listing [newegg.com]
        It doesn't look like the iHP-120 plays FLAC, but it is firmware upgradable so it may someday. USB mass storage device so it will work with Mac, Linux, and Windows without extra software (If that's important to you). The Rio Karma's ethernet interface is Java/Swing based, so you must have that on your computer. However, I don't own either of these, yet; this is just the research I have done. I'm seriously considering the iHP-120, but it is rather expensive.
        • Then get a Neuros [neurosaudio.com]. They have a nice 20GB player that plays OGG and MP3 for $199. It has MyFi which allows you to broadcast the music on your Neuros through any FM radio, an FM tuner to listen to the radio, it allows you to record from the FM tuner or from an line input or the built-in mic. It also has someting called HiSi that lets you record a 30 second MP3 and it can identify that song for you from the Neuros online database. And, it has 10 hours of continuous playback with rechargeable Lithium Ion bat
          • That Neuros looks really nice, but it says it requires windows. Is that really a requirement? Or can you just mount it as a USB drive and access it through linux as well?
            • The code is actually Open Source. You should be able to find a link on their site. It runs great under Linux. There is a firmware update from the vorbis guys that let you play/record OGG. Many sites still list just MS Windows as a requirement. For example, my HP PSC printer/scanner/copier works great under Linux with open source drivers from HP, though on the box it has MS Windows as a requirement.

              As for Linux support, it works great [neurosaudio.com] and there is a good Linux client [sourceforge.net]

      • Re:the iRiver is nice (Score:5, Informative)

        by Illissius ( 694708 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @07:44PM (#7941309)
        AFAIK so far, here are the pros and cons of the Rio Karma 20GB vs. iRiver iHP-120:

        Karma:
        - Ethernet port
        - FLAC support
        - Mad on-the-fly playlisting capabilities (AutoDJ thingy)

        iHP-120:
        - Comes with inline remote with LCD (can do everything you could with the main unit afaik)
        - Is completely plug-and-use as a generic hard drive for at least semi-modern OS-es (the Karma needs special software for transferring files)
        - FM tuner
        - Voice recording
        - Mad i/o and recording capabilities (line in/out, optical in/out)

        What stands out is that, asides from the Karma's ethernet port, the iRiver's advantages are hardware-based, while the Karma's are software, meaning there's a good chance of the iRiver gaining some of them as well later through a firmware upgrade (of course, I wouldn't count on it, but it's something to be considered). Other than that, it basically depends on what you need it for.
        • Neuros 20GB:
          - Needs software like the Karma (but open source, linux version, cool dev community)
          - MP3, WAV, OGG, (FLAC beta)
          - Voice, radio, line-in recording to WAV, MP3
          - FM tuner and Transmitter
          - other Misc features (site [neurosaudio.com])

          IMO, you can't really have a compressed audio "jukebox" without the ability to play your music anywhere with almost any device.

          The song browsing by filesystem or media library on the iHP is nice though.
        • iHP-120:
          - Comes with inline remote with LCD (can do everything you could with the main unit afaik)

          From the pictures I've seen, I only saw a Play/Pause and Stop button on the remote... is that not right?

    • re FLAC: I dunno! I'm not that much of an audio snob. I bet you aren't either when on airplanes. :>

      -dave
    • If you must have Ogg Vorbis, there's an app being developed for the Series 60 phones (search sourceforge). It's mostly just voice quality at the moment, but it is under current active development and there are 512MB MMC cards that have been proven to work reliably with the N-Gage.

  • Intel's Cheap(er) LCD's (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Lordofohio ( 703786 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @07:07PM (#7941080)

    According to Intel, this time next year we will be enjoying 55" LCD and plasma screens for under $1,000.

    I can't find the link right now, but I read an article saying that Intel had come up with a new semiconductor that would make these displays possible. The best part was that they should be on the shelves in the next 12 months (take that with plenty o' salt).

    Did anyone else hear about this or know anymore?

    • Re:Intel's Cheap(er) LCD's (Score:5, Informative)

      by galaxy300 ( 111408 ) <daltonrooney AT gmail DOT com> on Saturday January 10, 2004 @07:15PM (#7941129) Homepage
      I don't think they're LCD's, but something similar to DLP's. It was in the New York Times [nytimes.com], but I haven't heard anything about it from the CES reports yet, and the Times article is no longer available on the web. Too bad...can't wait to hear about it.

      • they are LCOS (Score:1, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward
        They are similar to an LCD, but not transparent. They are reflective instead. They can be used in rear projection TVs, like Sony's RP LCD GrandWegas or Samsungs DLPs.

        They cannot be used in place of direct-view LCD (i.e. hang on the wall or laptop types).
    • I can confirm that I read that, I also don't know where I read it, but I found some semi-related articles. But yes, some new silicon is supposedly coming out that will drive the cost of TVs way down. http://biz.yahoo.com/rm/031217/tech_intel_televisi on_2.html

    • Re:Intel's Cheap(er) LCD's (Score:4, Informative)

      by Sir_Dill ( 218371 ) <slashdotNO@SPAMzachula.com> on Saturday January 10, 2004 @07:29PM (#7941226) Homepage
      You're thinking about LCoS and an article [nytimes.com]in NyTimes where there were rumors that chipzilla was getting into the display chip market

      here is intels official site: Intel LCoS [intel.com]

      The article in NYtimes made claims that this would produce sub 1000 dollar RPTVs by Christmas 04' I think this is a bit optimistic however it does bode well for us avgeeks.

      LCoS is Liquid Crystal on Silicon. The best way to describe it would be a cross between DLP and LCD without the colorwheel and micromirrors of a DLP system.
      I would also like to note that this technology has nothing to do with flat panel displays(LCD/Plasma)
      More Links
      Yahoo Article [yahoo.com]
      CNET Article [com.com]

      • Umm, isn't that exactly what makes DLP, ah, DLP?

        It actually reads more like a reflective instead of a transmissive LCD system.

        But I get your point.

      • I believe that if Intel can get LCoS working properly at a low price and we get decently bright displays from LCos-based Rear-Projection TV (RPTV) units, it could finally spell the end of high-end large-screen CRT TV's (except for a few models to satisfy CRT fans) and could even threaten CRT-based RPTV's on the low end of the market.

        This might be the thing that finally get the critical mass of widescreen TV's needed to deploy 16:9 ATSC-standard HDTV and get a large viewing audience. I can see two years fro
    • Yeah I know a guy at Intel.

  • I commend timothy, a so-called "editor" at Slashdot, for trying to write a summary of his experiences at CES. However, the following reviews are done by more qualified journalists. I recommend them instead.

    Wireless Week [wirelessweek.com], High Fidelity Review [highfidelityreview.com], Stereophile [stereophile.com], CNN [cnn.com].

    Thank you.

    Sincerely,
    Seth Finklestein
    Media-Savvy Internet Pundit

    • Re:Better CES reviews (Score:3, Interesting)

      by wdr1 ( 31310 ) *
      Hmm. I thought this was a troll on timothy, but I have to admit those articles are significantly better. (I mean, they're not Hemmingway, but you do have a sense that the authors are professional journalists.)

      So CmdrTaco is the founder, Cowbody Neal and company are clearly technically savvy. What do timothy and michael bring to the table? I.e., what makes them editors? Not a flame -- an honest, and I think fair, question?

      -Bill

    • Re:Better CES reviews (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Jason Scott ( 18815 ) * on Saturday January 10, 2004 @09:12PM (#7941798) Homepage
      Good Mr. Finklestein:

      While it's nice that you have other sources of information available regarding CES, and believe them to be better than timothy's work, the fact remains that he's a staff member of Slashdot and is generating content for the site.

      How can he be expected to improve his skills over time, writing about the important events in technology, without making at least an effort to write more stories?

      Slashdot and many sites like it consist mostly of links to other content-generating sites, themselves writing articles and doing the actual on-the-prowl research. One of the ways Slashdot can definitely improve itself is to encourage more and more "home-grown" articles, written by staff members, and then work with the staff from the many, many comments that each story generates. While this "learning curve" probably turns off folks who are expecting a full-on technical publication staffed with the top-flight of writers, the fact is that this site is nontheless popular and might as well make the occasional attempt to tell the story from their own, unique point of view.

      I do agree that an opening paragraph in which the writer says "The following (link) (link) (link) write-ups are out for CES, and here's my impressions" would be a small mark better, allowing readers to get comparitive views (something that the publications you mentioned will not do), but I think disparaging his "editor" title was uncalled for.

      - Jason Scott
      textfiles.com: Your Cure For a Broken Heart

  • Sim City? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 10, 2004 @07:11PM (#7941109)
    Did anyone else misread the title as "Neat Stuff in Sim City: CES 2004".

    Man, a CES show in my city, I knew it was too good to be true!

  • HP declares war on sharing culture at CES (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 10, 2004 @07:15PM (#7941131)
    http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/34804.html

    Carly clearly show where HP stands on the issue of consumer rights.
    If you watch the video she shows an example where HP DVD burners won't make back-ups of VHS tapes.
    Since when did backups become illegal? HP is obviously choosing to ignore fair use rights.
    • In case you haven't noticed, HP doesn't give a fuck about anyone rights/lives unless they are an HP exec.

      They just fucking don't care as long as they get paid. That is why they are destroying HP.
    • Fair use is a right, but access to it isn't. That is, if the hardware allows fair use, it can not be made illegal, but if the hardware doesn't, and there are laws (dmca, eucd) forbidding converting the hardware to allow it, then you have no legal recourse to go hammering about how your rights have been taken away.

      Still, it sucks, and both the EU parliament and US congress should wake up and realise citizens should come first, always.

  • Nice Mp3 player. (Score:5, Informative)

    by polyp2000 ( 444682 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @07:22PM (#7941183) Homepage Journal
    Best portable *Compressed music file* player I have seen is easily the Rio Karma. Features include

    * Platform independant Software
    * Ethernet Socket (in addition to usual connectors)
    * Smaller footprint than iPod
    * Supports non DRM file formats including ogg, and flac.

    Only minor gripe is that it doesnt look as nice as the iPod. (Although there is nothing inherently ulgy with the way it looks)

    Rio Karma [digitalnetworksna.com]

    technically speaking its a better player.

    • Re:Nice Mp3 player. (Score:2, Informative)

      by bjarvis354 ( 319402 ) *
      I just bought one for my girlfriend for Xmas and she loves it. Now if only my Archos Studio 20 would break or something I could buy one for myself and get rid of those non-free codecs...

      My only gripe is that right now we are using the Java client. She could care less, since it works great on her Debian laptop, but I want a free software client app for the Karma. There is a project to develop a set of open source client libraries for managing the Rio Karma. It is called KarmaLib [sourceforge.net].
    • Looks are subjective, though. I'd say it almost looks better than iPod... what's so pretty about plain silver rectangle?

      Looks aside, the form factor is certainly much better, rounded square like that fits on palm MUCH better than longish iPod-lookalikes (=everything else out there), and it's even got a grip.

      I've also heard it really beats the crap out of iPod when it comes to sound quality.

      I agree with other posters gripe about lack of mass-storage drive, though - it REALLY lessens the devices usefulness
    • I bought my wife a Rio Karma 20 for Christmas and she loves it. She wanted an Ipod after trying all of the various players at the store, but the Karma wasn't available then. She tells me she likes it better than the Ipod because it's smaller.

      The Rio Music Manager has been a little tough for her to learn, but she's getting it (she's not too technical). My only complaint about that software is the inability to transfer a playlist from the PC to the Karma. You use the PC to create a playlist on the Karma

  • Improve the LCDs please! (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I've been happy with my Apple 22" Cinema Display (LCD), and other manufacturers have improved the technology. I still have two gripes though:

    - Better support for non-native resolutions. I mean come on...if I want to show ~800x600 in a 22" display I should have the benefit of no screwball artifacts.

    - Consistent lighting. The Samsung 213T is a really nice monitor. Unfortunately, every one I've seen has a slight flicker to it...like it's running at 60Hz (this despite using a DVI connector).

    Please plea
    • I'm stilly pretty happy with the Sun badged SONY GDM's you can buy on ebay at STOOPID cheap prices and while all this LCD/Plasma stuff looks right frikkin groovy and all I do have to wonder about the longevity. Note that I still have the industial Sony monitor (KV1311CR) I got with my Amiga 1000 (serial # 13!) back in 85 and it's still got a great great great picture.

      Are these LCD/plasma things gonna work in 10 years? 15? 20?
    • i love my 213 t, and havent noticed it flicker yet, although i avoide flourescent light at all costs.

      my gripe is the price, $1100. half that and bring the world into the future please someone!

  • I think I speak for all of us.... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by vt0asta ( 16536 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @07:26PM (#7941206)
    ...when I say "where are the pictures of the booth babes?"

  • Waiting for OLED (Score:5, Informative)

    by Saeger ( 456549 ) <(farrellj) (at) (gmail.com)> on Saturday January 10, 2004 @07:40PM (#7941293) Homepage
    "The electronics industry would obviously like you to buy a big (expensive) display of some sort.."

    I'm not shelling out any cash for a new display until I can get a true flatscreen display. This means I'll be waiting ~5+ more years for OLED [kodak.com], and flexible FOLED [universaldisplay.com] to hit the mainstream market.

    Of course, this better and cheaper tech will canibalize the huge investments in current LCD/Plasma/etc, but that's not my problem. I'm just glad that the era of expensive, heavy, highly-toxic, energy-wasteful displays is almost over.

    --

    • Re:Waiting for OLED (Score:4, Funny)

      by jrockway ( 229604 ) <jon-nospam@jrock.us> on Saturday January 10, 2004 @08:46PM (#7941657) Homepage Journal
      I am also anxiously awaiting less-toxic displays. Yesterday I gobbled down my 21" monitor. I was fine for a while, but, uh, it got bad. Talk about shitting a brick the next day...
    • How exactly are current technologies (plasma, lcd, dlp, lcos, crt) not FLAT? Do you mean THIN? In any case, while you wait +5 years for OLED (especially for it to be affordable and also for them to solve the lifetime of blue issue) I'll be enjoying my plasma. When 42" OLED is available in 5 years, I'll be enjoying my 80" plasma for the same cost.
      • When 42" OLED is available in 5 years, I'll be enjoying my 80" plasma for the same cost.

        Hardly the same cost. You'll/we'll be paying higher environmental/energy/muscle costs for the plasma. (But of course you probably drive an SUV too.)

        --

    • Re:Waiting for OLED (Score:4, Informative)

      by kryptkpr ( 180196 ) on Sunday January 11, 2004 @12:36AM (#7942765) Homepage
      FOLED is nice, and has a wide variety of applications..

      but I await anxiously the day SOLED [universaldisplay.com] displays hit the market..it will allow for trully LARGE high resolution displays that still look good even close up.

      (I did a report on OLED technology for my materials class last semester.. the biggest problem we found facing OLED adoption is that blue only seems to last about 2,000 hours, whereas red and green have both surpassed 20,000 hours.. however, Nokia and Kodak both have OLED-based products on the market today)
    • However, there are still serious issues of the life expectancy of OLED displays that manufacturers have yet to overcome. Meanwhile, LCoS rear-projection TV's will only have around 6-7" depth, will soon be very inexpensive and will not suffer convergence and "screen burn" problems that plague CRT-based rear-projection TV's.
  • Heh, at first I thought this article was about a new GTA game.

  • Weirdest units ever... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Cyno01 ( 573917 ) <Cyno01@hotmail.com> on Saturday January 10, 2004 @07:59PM (#7941401) Homepage
    it's about the size of a 5-pound block of cheddar cheese, weighs less (a hair less than two pounds)
    Uhhh, what the hell. So is this projector made of cheese or is it some special light weight cheese, i'm not following...

    • Re:Weirdest units ever... (Score:5, Funny)

      by timeOday ( 582209 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @08:43PM (#7941640)
      it's about the size of a 5-pound block of cheddar cheese, weighs less (a hair less than two pounds)
      Uhhh, what the hell. So is this projector made of cheese or is it some special light weight cheese, i'm not following...
      In case you're not just pretending to be stupid, I'll explain it to you.

      If the projector were really (somehow) made of cheddar cheese, it wouldn't work too well, now would it? So they make it from moon cheese, which is both bright (hence the moon's high visibility at night), and lightweight (due to the moon's low gravity) - both being highly desirable in a projector.

      Sheesh!

    • But how big is it compared to the Sears Tower? Or how heavy compared to a VW Bug? I think we need a common frame of referance... I just don't know how big a 5lb block of cheddar is.
    • And it's got a 2000 hour litebulb in it, but those things are like 150 watts. How do they get cheese to last 2000 hours under that much heat?
      • 2000 hours for a 150w lamp is nothing - when you consider that it's in all likelihood an arc source, so there's no filament to break.
        And even if it were a tungsten-halogen lamp, 2000-hour lifespans are certainly not unheard of - at work, I have a whole cabinet full of HPL 575w lamps, which are rated to last 2000 hours. (okay, okay, they're the long-life versions - the regular versions only last 300 hours)
  • Anyone know if there's been any news on Sharp's Zaurus 6000 series? The specs and manual [zaurususergroup.com] were released, but it was more of a leak through the FCC than official news.

    It'd be nice to know more about pricing and release date...

  • Flat panel TV's still at early-adopter prices? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by JaredOfEuropa ( 526365 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @08:11PM (#7941464) Journal
    Flat panel TV's are becoming more and more impressive... and they'd sure look nice in my living room. But why are they still so expensive? Even the small models. A 15" LCD TV would be perfect for my bedroom... by I'll be damned if I pay upwards of 600 Euro's for one, while a computer flat-panel LCD of the same dimensions costs less than half that. Somehow, I get the feeling I am being ripped off. It looks like some manufacturers of computer LCD screens agree with me... they're offering computer screens with a built-in tuner now, just for people like me who'll just rip the thing off its socket and hang it in their bedroom.

    I'm glad to see that LCD projectors have come down in price. Since I watch a lot of movies but very little else, buying a big flat panel TV would be a really bad compromise: I'd still have this big thing sitting in my living room (even though smaller than a really large TV), and I'd have to pay some ridiculous price for it. No thanks... I just got a nice LCD projector. Do yourself a favour, dump the TV, and get a 1200 lumen entry-level model for 1100 Euro's, and a good roll-up projection screen for another 200. You'll never even think about flat-panel TVs anymore...
    • I just got a nice LCD projector. Do yourself a favour, dump the TV, and get a 1200 lumen entry-level model for 1100 Euro's, and a good roll-up projection screen for another 200. You'll never even think about flat-panel TVs anymore

      At least, not until the bulb burns out, and you find that replacements cost hundreds of dollars. If you watch a lot of TV, you might well end up spending the price of a flat-panel display over the life of the unit.

      • A single bulb should last several years on the latest model projectors.

        Bulb costs ammortized over their expected lives end up being about five to ten cents an hour now.

        • What is the MTBF for those units (the bulbs that is)? I'm sure they last a long time (read 1 to 2 years) with intermittent use, but with near constant or daily use for several hours straight I can see going through the expensive replacemnt "bulbs" reasonably often.

          Then again, maybe these things just need the geek overclocking ethic i.e. more fans and better cooling for longer life. *Shrug*

          Just replaced a bulb unit in a compact infocus at work... It was used lightly over a year and a half, although to be
          • The bulbs are rated for a certain number of burn hours. Typical values are 3000 - 4000 hours for a modern unit. The bulbs are very reliable, and are not supposed to just randomly *poof*, like regular light bulbs... they are also guaranteed for 3-6 months against that eventuality. But I have never heard of a bulb failing long before its expected life span, unless in cases where the cooling fan broke or someone dropped the unit or moved it while still warm.

            At 3000 hours, a bulb will last you over a year
            • The bulbs are very reliable, and are not supposed to just randomly *poof*, like regular light bulbs... they are also guaranteed for 3-6 months against that eventuality.

              Our DLP projector keeps track of bulb usage and shuts down when the bulb reaches its rated life whether it's still working or not. According to the manufacturer (NEC) this is because a bulb can damage the projector when it goes "poof." I don't know if this applies to other units.

      • What about Plasma burn in? I don't know much about it, other than Plasma is a lot newer than projecters (in the market overall, obviously plasma is targeting home users more, while projecters target offices) so it doesn't have a track record. I do know that they have to compenstate for burn in because after just a few hours it is a factor. I don't know how far they can compensate though.

    • The ability of a projector to give a large image is certainly enticing, but projectors have certain disadvantages that won't work for some people. 1. projectors (even short throw ones) require a large room, at least a larger viewing distance than a plasma or lcd, this means they don't work well in your bedroom or apartment 2. light bulbs don't have that long of a life and are expensive to replace 3. projectors require a pretty dark room, any ambient light and the image will be washed out, this is one of th
      • 1) Not true... well they won't work in very small rooms. It seems that all the models these days are short-throw... I put mine about 3 meters from the screen, which gives me an image of about 1.8 x 1 m. That's good to watch from 5 meters off (where the sofa is), to 3 meters. So even if your room is only 3 meters long, you can still use one. In a smaller room, just put the projector a bit closer to the screen for a smaller image.

        2) Typical bulb life on modern units is 3000 - 4000 hours. Even using it
    • There is really a very simple answer to your question. Right now, LCD TVs are highly desirable and very fashionable. Any time a manufacturer can put those two words together they know they have a limited timeframe to print their own money.

      A very similar thing happened to me recently with a set of knives (Bear with me). I had saved up for a set of 12 Global knives which were previously retailing for around 300GBP. Unfortunately, having recently appeared with a number of TV chefs and on various other TV

    • My LCD curiosities (Score:5, Interesting)

      by swb ( 14022 ) on Saturday January 10, 2004 @09:46PM (#7941960)
      I've heard one reason 15" LCD TVs are more expensive is that they use fairly expensive electronics to drive the scaler and deinterlacer, even in small TVs, and when coupled with the tuner and other electronics it really does add up to more money than a 15" LCD monitor, but that leaves me wondering why Apex hasn't released a bargain basement one coupling low-budget VGA-out type TV tuners to low-budget LCD panels and delivering a TV in the $500 range.

      Another quesiton -- why can't I buy a desktop LCD monitor with the same size and native resolution as they make for laptops? My laptop display is maybe 15" but does 1400 x 1050. All the 15" LCDs I can find are only good for 1024 x 768 (there might be an oddball that does 1280, but usually they soak you for the 17" model).

      And speaking of laptops, why haven't the laptop industry made its VGA and video-out ports on its laptops *bi-directional*? I can think of plenty of times when it would have been great to just use my laptops display. And while we're doing that, let's just integrate a TV tuner into the display chip (a laptop with an All-In-Wonder type chipset).
    • I think right now the thing that will drive the wide adoption of larger-screen widescreen TV's will NOT be flat-panel LCD, plasma or OLED displays for the immediate future. OLED's may have a chance once the issues of display longevity is solved--but that is still several years down the road.

      The real breakthrough will be Liquid Crystal on Semiconductor (LCoS), which will offer the same advantages of DLP (namely no convergence problems and "screen burn" problems that plague CRT-based rear-projection TV's) bu

  • HandHeld's Personal Video Players (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Some of my coworkers were at CES this year.... We make Hanheld Personal Video Players which can play videos, MP3's, and display .jpg's... All for only $99.00!! Yes, it's a color screen, yes it's very good quality... and that's just the first version!

    It's a pretty cool little device... Myself and another coworker were at MacWorld, and my coworker told me that he was talking with a friend of his from Apple... The Apple guy said that he had seen at least a few of these, but his eyes bugged out when he fou

    • All content and media encoded in the HHe format is doubly protected from unauthorized copying by the HHe format itself, which is both highly proprietary, carefully guarded against public release, and then further secured by using 128-bit encryption. HHe will power HandHeld?s ZVUE! personal video player, which is manufactured in cooperation with Eastern Asia Technology (?EASTECH?).

      Yipes! At least they're working on getting MPEG to play on the units.

    • You might want to reconfigure your Zope, getting ASCII garbage instead of video in Mozilla because your webmaster can't even figure out what mime types are for isn't a good sign. And while you're it, consider releasing it in non-wmv format.

      Anyway, looks a nice gadget, but something like that REALLY needs a hard drive version.

  • RIO Karma (Score:2, Informative)

    by AlphaSector ( 676934 )
    I'm not sure if this guy knows about the karma or not, but I just bought one and it's great. It's a 20gig portable player that plays MP3s, WMAs, Ogg, and FLAC. If anyone out there is looking for a portable player, I would seriously look at this player. Besides being a good player, it has a very supportive forum where rio engineers visit so if you want something in the new firmware update, they can possibly do it at http://www.riovolution.com/. You can also check it out on RIO's site here: http://www.dig
  • How else would he have heard about Carly Fiorina's attack on music sharing? It seems not only is she a lousy CEO but also is in the pockets of the music industry. Read [theregister.co.uk] and hear about the heart wrenching story of rapper 50 cents who having sold 6.5 million records this year alone now feels the need to take away some college kid's lunch and car. Or the tale of a company that for the sake of innovation is attempting to destroy everyone's freedom to innovate...
  • The first real life model of the phantom game console [newsforge.com] was also show at CES. There are pictures of it at gamespot [gamespot.com] . Not sure if this is a working model or not.

  • speaking of PVRs... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Fry-kun ( 619632 ) on Sunday January 11, 2004 @04:50AM (#7943621)
    You probably haven't noticed a small device that stands a chance of replacing PVRs. If you're still at CES, look for MVP by Hauppauge and check it out.

    In a few words, it uses an ethernet connection to connect to a computer with the video data, then just forwards it to the TV over RCA or S-video cables.

    Who needs a VCR that takes up space if you can record TV directly to your computer and then watch it on the TV in the comfort of your living room (that is, if you have one ;) Hell, you can probably even watch those divx movies you downloaded off the net.

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