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Ford Testing a New 'Traffic Monitoring' Device 535

Poletown writes "The Detroit Free Press put out this article today about a new vehicle based 'traffic monitoring' system that Ford is testing. It will report your speed, the road temperature, whether or not your wipers/headlights are active, and even if you've used your anti-lock brakes. Initially, the system will be tested on Ford-owned and municipal vehicles."
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Ford Testing a New 'Traffic Monitoring' Device

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  • tinfoil (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:13PM (#8410506)
    Quick! Someone make me a hat!
    • Re:tinfoil (Score:5, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:21PM (#8410622)
      That won't work... you've got to make it yourself. Otherwise, how do you know that The Man hasn't made it inside-out so it will amplify your thought waves and make it easier to track you?! And don't even think about buying that tinfoil in stores - the automatic door openers read your dna and won't let you in unless they correlate you with their files (the red light will come on to confirm this). You've got to steal the tinfoil out of your neighbors recycling for it to be any good.
      • Re:tinfoil (Score:3, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Jeez, what kind of nut are you??? You can't possibly trust your NEIGHBOUR. I mean, you may have known him all your life but who's to say he isn't a government agent or a body-snatched alien infiltrator who was placed next door to you just to provide you with 'laced' tin foil???

        Everyone knows you have to don a black suit with only eye holes and sneak into the city dump late at night to steal your tinfoil. Statistically speaking, there's so much there that it would be almost impossible for it to ALL be 'l
    • Re:tinfoil (Score:5, Funny)

      by cluckshot ( 658931 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:27PM (#8410704)

      I think we may need more than a tinfoil hat! How about some sort of armor... against the idiots who see only the "benefits" of such a system.

      Just remember that you can make something "Fool Proof" but you can't make it "Damn Fool Proof," because fools are so ingenious...

      • Re:tinfoil (Score:5, Funny)

        by bob dobalina ( 40544 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:30PM (#8410740)
        Yeah, because it's not like the government isn't already monitoring your speed and the road conditions with traffic cameras and speed & ground radar. Dammit, citizens have a right to their anti-lock brake systems' privacy!
        • Re:tinfoil (Score:5, Funny)

          by paganizer ( 566360 ) <thegrove1@hotm[ ].com ['ail' in gap]> on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:52PM (#8410997) Homepage Journal
          Don't worry about it.
          I, for one, WELCOME this new opportunity to sell kits for cars that bypass this sort of shit.
          There are people who know electronics in the world, and aren't completely unfamiliar with automotive systems; Just rip the shit out, or better yet, have them think they are looking at you when in actuality they are tracking the driving habits of the Local Sheriff.
          This is about as silly as worrying about RFID tags; don't look at this as a imposition, look at this as the chance to misdirect and confuse!

  • is that all?? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by freerecords ( 750663 ) <slashdot@nOsPAm.freerecords.org> on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:13PM (#8410510) Homepage Journal
    it does all that but it doesn't drive yet!??
    but seriously, what use is a traffic monitoring system - if you live in an area REALLY hit by traffic (i live near Central London, UK), there is usually almost no way to avoid it! what's the use unless you're a long distance commuter, or want to decide whether to use subway/underground or car
    • by w3weasel ( 656289 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:20PM (#8410599) Homepage
      I used to live in Atlanta, GA... notorious for bad traffic. Back in the early 90's they installed several large digital billboards that would display important traffic information such as "overturned vehicle at I-85 & I-285... expect delays".

      The result of these billboards...
      I had something to read while parked on the freeway.

      This sounds like history repeating.
      • by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) * on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:31PM (#8410753)
        Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • Re:is that all?? (Score:4, Insightful)

          by LostCluster ( 625375 ) * on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:59PM (#8411086)
          Traffic information is realtively useless on the backed up roadway. You're already there, can't really change your route, and knowing that there's a blockade ahead of you is something you likely could have already figured out yourself.

          It's a case of good information gone stale... it's too late to save you at this point. Traffic infomation needs to be distributed well before people get to the scene of the problem, so that they have a chance to select that "alternate route" that sends them on a longer path with less congestion. Once they have passed that point, it's too late.

          Therefore, traffic infomation needs to be distributed very rapidly and distantly from the scene of the problem in order to have any influence on the situation.
          • by RLW ( 662014 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @03:46PM (#8411540)
            Car drivers file a drive plan which works in conjunction with accurate real time traffic monitoring an on board computer that could generate an alternate route and guide the driver by way of on board navigation system: cool. but what happens when all those drives select the same route beucase each onboard system generated it from the same information? The lower volume roads will be jammed too.
          • Re:is that all?? (Score:4, Interesting)

            by frdmfghtr ( 603968 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @03:54PM (#8411596)
            Therefore, traffic infomation needs to be distributed very rapidly and distantly from the scene of the problem in order to have any influence on the situation.

            A system that does this is already installed...it's called CB radio. OK, so it may not be that cool now, but it still has a use.

            When I had a CB, I could drive east on the Indiana/Ohio tollways and get radar and road reports from the drivers headed west, and vice versa.
          • Re:is that all?? (Score:5, Informative)

            by nolife ( 233813 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @04:11PM (#8411748) Homepage Journal
            Good traffic reports CAN help you. Almost every traffic report given by any radio station are useless, the only exception I've ever heard is for those that live in the DC area that listen to WTOP [wtopnews.com] (they have a listen live link and traffic is on the 8's if you want to here an example. They describe the traffic, what the bailouts are like, what is causing the delay and expected recovery time, the status of the cause (police on scene, sunshine delays, loading the smashed car on the truck, moving pothole repair crew blocking left lane, lights short timing, cars moved off to the median, rubbernecking etc...), references to previous days like worse or better or simply volume delays. Their reports are very detailed and not just telling you that interstate whatever is backed up to exit whatever. They have a very detailed picture of what is and was going on in the DC area and they describe it very well to the listeners.
      • by 955301 ( 209856 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @03:12PM (#8411236) Journal
        Let me bring you up to date since you left.

        Last year, someone headed back into the city during rush hour crashed into one of those billboards on GA 400 southbound, bringing it down and blocking the entire road well into the evening.

        I wasn't there, but I hear people who saw it happen could see the display blinking:

        Traffic sign down on GA 400 S & Windward. Use alternate route.
  • no more... (Score:5, Funny)

    by enrico_suave ( 179651 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:14PM (#8410513) Homepage
    no more tittie bar lunches for the Public Works sand trucks anymore I guess...

    *shrug*

    e.

    • by Tackhead ( 54550 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:22PM (#8410637)
      > no more tittie bar lunches for the Public Works sand trucks anymore I guess...
      >
      > *shrug*

      "Shrug"?!?!!

      I fill potholes for two hours a day, and for the remaining six, I'm a barkeep at a tittie bar, you insensitive clod!

    • Obviously... (Score:3, Interesting)

      ...you've never worked in the civil service before.

      "The computer says what? Why, that must be wrong. We were just eating at that Denny's next door. I don't know, sir. If you can't prove it either way, I guess you'll just have to trust us."

    • Re:no more... (Score:4, Informative)

      by LostCluster ( 625375 ) * on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:47PM (#8410943)
      Here in Massachusetts, there was a big deal about contract snow plow operators being ordered to carry GPS-reporting cell phones to let the state authorites know where the plow assets are at any given time, and also for proof that they really are plowing the roads they say they are, and not taking unauthorized breaks.

      The plow operators countered that it's not uncommon for a plow to get held up for an hour or two because they are blocked by police, accidents, or other obstructions, and they should be paid for that time.

      The state countered by saying it's trivial for them to tell the differnce. If your spend an hour at Dunkin' Donuts, you will not be paid. If you spend an hour trapped on a highway that you belong on, you will be paid.
    • Re:no more... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by RESPAWN ( 153636 ) <respawn_76@NOsPaM.hotmail.com> on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:47PM (#8410946) Journal
      A friend of mine was telling me a story about this guy he knows who owns some kind of service business. This guy got all his employees some new cell phones (or something, some kind of communication gear) with GPS built in. The first week he fired something like 2 people, one of whom was taking a nap somewhere (presumably) and the other of whom was found in a very very bad part of town -- apparently buying drugs.
  • by onyxruby ( 118189 ) <onyxruby@ c o m c a s t . net> on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:14PM (#8410524)
    Good idea but it won't work, here's why. This essentialy puts in real time monitoring information from your car's computer to a relay device that collates and condenses the information. In thoery this could allow more localized reporting conditions such as areas where a certain valley with a river can have weather different than the sorrounding community and so on. The article doesn't note if this is GPS enabled or not, but it would inevitably happen sooner or later.

    But it wont work because if a device can tell if your antilock brakes are working it can just as easily tell if your speeding or any other number of big brother activities. This information could be relayed to your local municipality and insurance company. Imagine discovering that you've gotten a speeding ticket and your insurance rates went up before you even finished driving home.

    This would be a very effective privacy erosion and people will rebel with the inevitable horror stories that would follow. Your boss could find out if you go drinking on the weekend, and so on. Imagine anyone being able to use this "public" information to stalk or harass someone. Since the information would reported to municipalities, it would by definition be public unless legislated otherwise.

    Now, you could make it work, and it could produce very nice real time results. If several thousand cars all suddenly come to a crawl where traffic conditions wouldn't otherwise call for it an automated dispatch to 911 could be sent to find out why - there's probably a good reason for it. The problem is that you have to find a way of reporting the information in aggragate and without the ability to uniquely identify where it's coming from. If it can be uniquely identified it will be subponead by some lawyer and abused.
    • by funny-jack ( 741994 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:19PM (#8410592) Homepage
      But it wont work because if a device can tell if your antilock brakes are working it can just as easily tell if your speeding or any other number of big brother activities.

      Ever heard of OnStar? It's got GPS, and can therefore report whether you're speeding, and yet it's not abused in the way you suggest it would be. People actually even pay extra to have it in their car.

      I'm not saying that it isn't good to be cautious, but just because a technology can be used in a "Big Brother" way doesn't mean it will.
      • by captain_craptacular ( 580116 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:30PM (#8410745)
        I'm not saying that it isn't good to be cautious, but just because a technology can be used in a "Big Brother" way doesn't mean it will.

        Yes it does, It's only a matter of time before the fed/state/local authorities start to supoena onstar. First it will be for a good reason (murder, kidnapping) but once it starts, we'll be sliding right on down that slope. How long until someone is arrested for terrorism because their SUV was parked at a fertilizer store, a diesel station, and an airport in the same day?
        • by DanoTime ( 677061 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @03:18PM (#8411291)
          Supoena!?!? Heck, why bother with all that paperwork?

          A Judge told the FEDS to stop listening in to OnStar [com.com]
        • by tessaiga ( 697968 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @03:23PM (#8411335)
          I read the grandparent and thought the same thing, but you beat me to the punch. It's interesting to look at the E-Z Pass system on the East Coast as a comparison, since similar concerns were raised when it was first implemented. Although initially records were supposed to be for billing only, over time they've been subpoenaed to be used in criminal cases, divorce proceedings, etc. [slashdot.org]. If the information is there, there'll be a temptation to use it.

          Having said that, I don't see why they couldn't implement these systems in public and city-owned vehicles only, like buses and public works vehicles. There's no reason you need every car in the city to have one, just enough so that you can monitor traffic flow.

        • They already did. (Score:5, Interesting)

          by Ungrounded Lightning ( 62228 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @03:35PM (#8411431) Journal
          I'm not saying that it isn't good to be cautious, but just because a technology can be used in a "Big Brother" way doesn't mean it will.

          Yes it does, It's only a matter of time before the fed/state/local authorities start to supoena onstar.


          As a matter of fact, they already DID subpoena OnStar or one of its clones. And not just to track the vehicle, but to use the phone function to BUG it. This came to light in the news media as a result of a suit by the service provider.

          It seems the device is basically a cellphone (without a ringer and with a fixed number to call, and WITH a data connection to the car's computer). Inbound calls are silently accepted (the better to track stolen cars without alerting the thief and to unlock the door for customers who lock the keys in). Of course this makes bugging the occupants trivial.

          The emergency signal is sent by transmitting a tone in the upbound voice channel. With a call permanently set up between the car and the FBI's tape recorder, the emergency service the company was being paid for couldn't be provided. (The tone would go to the tape recorder, rather than a call being made to the emergency service proder.)

          When the FBI wanted to continue the tap after a month, the company sued to get them to release it.

          (The news item carefully didn't mention which OnStar-or-clone company was involved.)
    • by thedillybar ( 677116 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:20PM (#8410606)
      Slightly offtopic, but speeding tickets in the US are issued to the driver of the vehicle, not the owner of the vehicle (like a parking ticket).

      Can they really write you a ticket if they know that your vehicle was speeding, but they don't know who was driving it? It seems they are using cameras to penalize red-light runners in some cities already, but how are they doing this? If the car isn't registered to me, then I don't get the ticket?

      • by (54)T-Dub ( 642521 ) * <tpaine.gmail@com> on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:38PM (#8410829) Journal
        You are absolutely correct. The "Red Light Camera's" take multiple pictures. One of your car behind the line when the light turns red, one of your license plate and one of you driving.

        The trick is to send them a picture of you writing them a check ;-)
      • by pongo000 ( 97357 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:52PM (#8411002)
        Slightly offtopic, but speeding tickets in the US are issued to the driver of the vehicle, not the owner of the vehicle (like a parking ticket).

        In Texas, many cities are "home-rule" cities which means they can sometimes enact laws which are not specifically prescribed or proscribed by the state. In the town I live in, they issue civil citations to the owners of vehicles caught by the red light cameras. By issuing a civil citation, the city finds it easier to skirt around due process. If you refuse to pay, then you'll find yourself at the receiving end of a criminal charge for failure to pay a civil fine levied by the city, rather than being held responsible for the offense under criminal statutes.

        Here's another example: We have several toll roads where I live. I sold my car a few years back; in Texas, the tags go with the car. So of course,the lowlife I sold my vehicle to decide to rack up several hundred dollars in fines for running the toll gates. The toll authority issued me a civil fine of several hundred dollars based on photographs of the rear license plate of the vehicle! Had I not been able to prove that the vehicle was in fact sold (I had a bill of sale), I would have been held liable for the fines.

        So yes, in some parts of the country you can receive a citation by simply owning a vehicle caught speeding, running red lights, etc.
      • by jomegat ( 706411 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:54PM (#8411028)
        Can they really write you a ticket if they know that your vehicle was speeding, but they don't know who was driving it?

        Apparently they can. Gene Weingarten wrote an amusing piece [washingtonpost.com] in the Washington Post last week that describes his failed attempt to get out of just such a predicament using the defense you have suggested. It didn't work.

    • Your boss could find out if you go drinking on the weekend, and so on. Imagine anyone being able to use this "public" information to stalk or harass someone. Since the information would reported to municipalities, it would by definition be public unless legislated otherwise.

      GOOD!

      We as a country do too much just because we think we'll get away with it--and we let slide our liberties because we aren't challenged when we exercise them, and so don't have the chance to defend them.

      BOSS: "So, Planesdragon, I see that you bought twenty-four kegs of beer last weekend..."

      PD: "Yep. I had a kegger at my house. It's my personal life, and, as you can see, I'm here bright-eyed and bushy-tailed monday morning. So what's it to you?"

      BOSS: "Oh, ah... Ok."
      • That works fine, until your boss gives you alcohol screenings based on this information; particularily if it happens as a part of public knowledge. Agreed, in an ideal world, it wouldn't be a big deal; but systems like this get abused frequently.
      • Actually you could get in trouble because of this;

        BOSS: "So, Planesdragon, I see that you bought twenty-four kegs of beer last weekend... why the HELL wasn't I invited!?!!? Greedy bastard, no raise for you this year!"
    • by oneiros27 ( 46144 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:27PM (#8410702) Homepage
      Yes, your issues are true for personal vehicles. However, in the case of fleet vehicles, where the person doesn't get a choice if it's on or not, I could see it being quite helpful.

      In fact, I know a few people whose work vehicles will report to their employer when they showed up at the work site (construction related field). This is just an extension to that.

      You're automatically assuming that 'consumer' means 'private citizen' which it may not be. I can see significant demand for this for fleet vehicles, especially if it can be correlated to GPS or some of the other monitor systems that already exist.

      Public works vehicles would be a prime candidate for this, as it could give indicators where potholes are, or snow problems, or flooded roads. Radio and TV stations might put it in their vehicles, so they could improve their traffic reporting.

      It might move to private vehicles, if there were incentives. Maybe discounts on your insurance, or taxes, or the like, but I don't see people just jumping out and wanting it on their own, for the very reasons you stated.

      And it's entirely possible that they'll be put in without people knowing about it, such as the black boxes that record airbag data, or forced to be in there by law [all vehicles in the state of must have them], similar to emissions controls, which help the general population, but not the individual user.
    • rebellion? uhh.... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by ThosLives ( 686517 )
      ...people will rebel with the inevitable horror stories that would follow.

      Unfortunately, people won't rebel because they won't take it upon themselves to build cars without said devices, and that's even assuming that the Law allows cars to be manufactured without all that stuff anyway. What will happen is that people will just say, "That sucks! Oh, well, I want a car...."

    • Blackboxes which provide data about what might have happened already exist for cars. There have been numerous court cases regarding the privacy issues surrounding it's uses, mostly because drivers have no clue they exist in their cars. Apparently Ford and GM have been doing this since the 90s [usatoday.com]. So Ford is probably just taking their technology a step further.
    • Your making an assumption that this would need to be on all cars. Only a small percent of cars would have to have this on, and enabled, for this to be able to monitor conditions.

      If a small incentive was given many individuals, or companies, would probably be willing to have their car tracked...
  • Traffodata XP (Score:4, Interesting)

    by almaon ( 252555 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:14PM (#8410526)
    Microsoft will soon take away Ford's glory, Bill vs Henry round two with Traffodata 04.

    Nerd history of the Traffodata is located in Fire in the Valley, a great computer history book.
  • Can you access it? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by stephenb ( 18235 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:15PM (#8410528) Homepage
    This would be cool if there was some way to hook up your own home PC and access the data. You could write cool python scripts to visualize your commute to work, etc.
  • Ah, crap. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by lukewarmfusion ( 726141 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:15PM (#8410536) Homepage Journal
    When I have kids, I'll expect updates on all their cars' data at regular intervals.

    I can't decide whether to praise this kind of "innovation" for the convenience, or to complain about the possibilities for abuse. I know we'll hear plenty of both - but I'll lean toward praising this for now. Technology will always be abused, and complaining about basically harmless things and their potential for evil is not generally productive.
    • by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:23PM (#8410647)
      Well when I have kids, I'll be permanently affixing wireless webcams to their heads, along with microphones. I certainly wouldn't want to trust them in any way to do what I'd taught them, and I'll be expecting realtime data on all that they see, do, and say.
    • by GoofyBoy ( 44399 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:32PM (#8410763) Journal
      >When I have kids, I'll expect updates on all their cars' data at regular intervals.

      And the one metric I would be looking for would be the "engine off, shock adsorbers experencing extreme stress" indicator.
    • by mattkime ( 8466 )
      I'm sure you'd feel that way until you find your car reporting -

      -Its been parked by the river for an hour
      -The radio is playing
      -Strangely, its reporting rough, unpaved roads
    • by Ungrounded Lightning ( 62228 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @03:46PM (#8411536) Journal
      When I have kids, I'll expect updates on all their cars' data at regular intervals.

      So will the stalkers, rapists, sexual predators, and serial killers.

      Is this what you REALLY want for, say, your teenage girl?

      How about for your teenage boy - the one with the really cute butt?

      How about for your cousin, who just bailed out of the abusive marriage and is trying to duck the ex-husband? You know - the one who broke her nose, blackened her eyes about once a week, and wants to continue the practice?

      How about the crook who knows your car is worth fifty grand and you just spent ten minutes in a bank parking lot?
  • Spin (Score:5, Informative)

    by funny-jack ( 741994 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:15PM (#8410537) Homepage
    Hey, why not? GM sells cars that do a pretty good job of spying on the driver, and people buy it for this excellent "feature." And to them, it is a feature. It just takes some good marketing spin.

    If every single car being made had something like this, then there would be cause for concern. Otherwise, just don't buy the cars that have this if you don't want it. Simple.
  • by aacool ( 700143 ) <aamanlamba2gmail DOT com> on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:15PM (#8410538) Journal
    This is a big opportunity to reduce traffic jams, said Thilo Koslowski, vice president and lead automotive analyst at Gartner Group, a technology research firm. "The challenge is to get enough cars with these devices on the road to collect enough data."

    This can potentially further clog the microwave/radio spectrum, depending on the range of these sensors. Also, unless some standard exists/is applied, competing manufacturers could select different protocols, leading to a babel of messages, and more traffic jams rather than less

    It could have some good use as an anti-theft device.

    No comments on the Orwellian overtones of the original post

  • Tickets? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Xeed ( 308294 ) * on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:15PM (#8410542) Journal
    This is government-funded, so they are going to be seeing the data at some time. What is to stop them from sending a ticket in the mail from the information they collected?
  • by trix_e ( 202696 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:16PM (#8410546)
    From the article: "Slow vehicle speeds with frequent stops would signal traffic congestion, for instance."

    uh... it could also signal that my Mom is at the wheel...
  • by Wedge1212 ( 591767 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:16PM (#8410547)
    the ECU in a modern car already logs half of those things listed. The data from your ECU can be used against you in court. I can see this becoming a full production line "feature"
  • Driver monitoring (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Rorschach1 ( 174480 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:16PM (#8410552) Homepage
    On a related note, check out the sample videos at DriveCam.com [drivecam.com]. So long as you're not at fault, this would be great to have. I was thinking of using a single-board computer with a couple of USB webcams under Linux and a solid state accelerometer to do the same sort of thing. I think I'd add a manual trigger to catch video of the idiot who ran a red light in front of me or cut me off, though.

  • Jerks on the road (Score:5, Interesting)

    by October_30th ( 531777 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:17PM (#8410564) Homepage Journal
    Good for us.

    Hopefully this will help getting the speeding jerks off our roads. Quite frankly, I wouldn't mind having completely remote-computer controlled cars in our lifetime.

  • Possibly off topic- (Score:5, Informative)

    by IWantMoreSpamPlease ( 571972 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:17PM (#8410566) Homepage Journal
    I used to do EPA/OSHA type building inspections.

    Once I was asked to do some inspection work on a DOT (department of transportation) site, and they had just finished installing (and monitoring) useage of their DOT vehicles.

    I was there when the output was generated. The DOT devices monitored how long the vehicles were in motion, how far they traveled, how fast, how long they stopped and using a GPS, where exactly they were at any given time.

    The workmen knew nothing of this installation until that point in time.

    The moral? The crews weren't doing what they were supposed ot be doing (running about filling potholes) and instead (as found by the GPS) were down at a local bar and grill, drinking it up.

    So they were fired.

    Sure, they probably deserved it, but should they have been fired in this manner? This device *sounds* like it could be used for *exactly* that.

    Something to think about.
    • by shaka999 ( 335100 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:39PM (#8410848)
      Yes, they should have be fired exactly like that.

      The work crews were expecting their actions to be untraceable and they were caught. As a taxpayer I hope all city vehicles are setup with this info. As long as their employment agreement states that the city/state has the right to monitor their vehicles then whats the issue...
  • Great... (Score:5, Funny)

    by the_skywise ( 189793 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:18PM (#8410573)
    I'm not going to be car owner anymore...
    Now I'm just going to be a user of the Ford Mobile Traffic Network.
    But I bet I'll be allowed to opt-out... If I can fill out all the paperwork.
  • Traffic Waves (Score:5, Insightful)

    by RobertB-DC ( 622190 ) * on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:19PM (#8410581) Homepage Journal
    The "intelligent roadway" concept sounds all gee-whiz and cool, but the fact still remains that it's we, the drivers, who are responsible for both the volume and the density of traffic. Our being on the roads in the first place generates the volume, and our need to get "there" first generates the density.

    Someone posted a link to this site about how one driver can singlehandedly eliminate traffic waves [amasci.com] simply by not driving like a nut. I've tried it, and it's not difficult, but I can't imagine convincing my wife to let a gap open up in front of her... there's something in human nature that rebels at the thought of someone else getting ahead of you in line.

    My prediction: If these devices and systems lead to more efficient roads, then there will simply be more people on the roads. The end result will be *worse* congestion than before. That's why building new expressways [houstonfreeways.com] is so futile -- you just can't build your way out of gridlock. [Insert mass transit rant here]
  • by Wayne247 ( 183933 ) <slashdot@laurent.ca> on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:20PM (#8410603) Homepage
    Here in Montreal, they buried a bunch of sensors into the ground under the major highways. These sensors track in realtime the flow of traffic, so you can have an instant glimpse at the entire network's traffic status, and find out where to avoid. For now it's a small portion of the roads, but it's already proven to be very effective. Can't wait until more roads have that and the map! See it here [gouv.qc.ca].
  • Big Brother (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Nycto ( 138650 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:21PM (#8410616) Homepage
    Wow... I can't say how much this kind of thing scares me. As an advocate for privacy, I don't want people to be able to follow my every move.

    I realize, of course, that there are benefits of being able to track cars. Finding stolen cars, keeping unsafe drivers off the road, et cetera, but sometimes you have to sacrifice all these things for the rights of the individual. Our culture has a tendency to take ideas with good intentions and take them to dangerous extremes. Take bias censorship in schools, for example. There are extensive rules that publishing companies have in place so as not to offend children. It started in 1970 as a way to keep racism and homophobia out of schools, but is to the point where you can't mention, for example, a blind man overcoming his disability and climbing a mountain. According to these bias guidelines, that kind of statement could offend blind children.

    What is the next step after this? Tracking devices implanted under the skin? Big Brother is watching you. /me shudders
  • Not in your car. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by gpinzone ( 531794 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:21PM (#8410620) Homepage Journal
    This is going to be installed in municipal vehicles and police cars, not your vehicle. Relax everyone.

    Good luck figuring out traffic patterns by putting this in police cars. The police by me are either sitting by the side of the road looking for speeders and HOV lane violators, or they're cutting through traffic in the disabled vehicle lane.
  • Just wrong (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ketdogg ( 740971 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:21PM (#8410621)
    This sounds like a good idea, but i see it being used in all the wrong ways. Cops would no longer have to catch someone speeding, they would just have to link the illegal speed with the vehical and send the ticket in the mail. Any government could track were certain citizens are (or rather their cars) at any time. I wonder how long it would take someone to put linux on one of these systems. It would be a pretty tight mobile computer.
  • by GillBates0 ( 664202 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:23PM (#8410653) Homepage Journal
    without location information. The transmitted data would most likely be tagged with the VIN or some unique ID, which ofcourse would be sufficient to track down the location of the driver.

    Might as well put that chip inside my brain so it can sense my stress/roadrage levels and turn my car off if I get too violent.

  • by wholecake ( 640250 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:25PM (#8410668)
    FORD = Found on road dead
    FORD = Fucker only runs downhill
    FORD backwards is an acronym for "Driver Returns On Foot."
    FORD = First On Recall Day
    FORD = Fix Or Repair Daily
    FORD = For Oversized Rednick Dicks

    Ford Acronyms [urbandictionary.com]
  • Rental car agencies are already exploiting GPS tracking devices [nytimes.com] for uncapped profit (eg. bouncing a $250 rental fee to $3.4k). I wonder how long it will take them to exploit this one so they can charge penalties for ... oh ... not using your blinker, leaving the dome light on when the car is off, and perhaps even for not flipping down the sun visors. Y'know, 5 minutes of harsh sunlight can really wreak havoc on unprotected automotive uphostlery, and possibly increase the maintenance cost for a vehicle by a full $0.000000005!!
  • by Clemence ( 16887 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:33PM (#8410777)
    "A market is never saturated with a good product, but it is very quickly saturated with a bad one."
    --Henry Ford

    Rental car companies use GPS to clock your speed or location and fine you for speeding or leaving the geographic area covered by your contract. Red light cameras dole out tickets (usually through some government contracting company). EZ-Pass toll systems can help track the movements of drivers. The microprocessors in your car can provide data to help determine fault in auto accidents. I won't even get into OnStar. Sheesh, next thing you know, Anheuser-Busch will be tracking your drinking habits - oh wait. Imaging linking those databases.

    With a simple identification code in each Ford car, the freedom of movement in the U.S. could become very expensive. To me, it's almost more frightening that so many of these functions (and this data) is in private hands than if it were the government getting it itself.

    There will be (actually already is) a flurry of legal wrangling to determine: (1) how the private companies can use this (i.e., when they can disclose or sell it); and (2) under what circumstances the government can get to it and use it.

  • Pay attention... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Dutchmaan ( 442553 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:36PM (#8410809) Homepage
    That which causes outrage today is commonplace tomorrow...

    Technology is like fire... if you don't keep a careful eye on it and keep it under control, what was your servant becomes your master...

    That's all I'm saying... make sure such useful technology doesn't become abused... It's a duty to those who wish to remain free.

    "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."
  • by scorp1us ( 235526 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:36PM (#8410813) Journal
    It's a bunch of BS to get people to let this big brother in the car.. then ZAM it'll start to be abused.. Just like OnStar was. OnStar gor saved via a tecnical detail, but if they had multiple audio out channels, it's still be abused today.

    The fact is, it's US thats the problem. We employ a greedy and not cooperative strategy on the roads. They did research around here, and they found that all the highways were completely cpable of handling the volume of traffic at rush hour. It's out driving that creates backups.

    And don't get me started about RUBBERNECKERS! ARH.

    People here are some tips:
    1) Don't rummberneck, mangled metal is fun, but it's none of your business.
    2) Don't tail gate, leave good room. Tailgating makes you slam on your brakes, so the guy behind you needs to slam arder, and so on, until people are locking up anc causing more accidents.
    3) When in a backup let the gap be made. Don't floor it to the next guys bumper then brake hard 1) it wastes gas 2) you repeat #2. I've seen "averagers" - peopel who average the flow out create a huge difference. And I think we all rather me slow and steady rather than stop-and -go. If you are a stop and go person: remember: 1) all that gas used to get up to speed gets wasted when you put on your brakes, 2) you waste more brakes killing the effect of overusing gas 3) you create more changes in speed which is more changes for a rear-end collision by another unattentive driver. We handle things if they are steady.
    4) Get over early. You having to slow down your lane so you can get over in a hurry, slows down your lane and causes others to change lanes.
    5) minimize lane changes. Each one is a time when you a leagally vulderable. When you change lanes, right of way is with the person who is already there. And we all know about 2 people, one moveing left, the other right, that don't see each other.

    That shoudl take care of 90% of the problems on the road.

    Thank you.

  • Let me see, the same company that is currently producing a ~400 hp SVT Cobra is going to want a report on how fast I'm going? Why, I'm going the legal speed limit! Of course! Seriously, I intend on picking up my Cobra and driving directly to an auto parts store to get the mod chip that transmits a nice fake signal to Ford.
    SVT COBRA VIN#12345
    WINDSHIELD WIPERS:OFF
    HEADLIGHTS: OFF
    SPEED: YOUR MOTHER
  • by St. Vitus ( 26355 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:38PM (#8410832)
    For Ford SUVs, it will also report if the vehicle is upside-down.
  • by LostCluster ( 625375 ) * on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:38PM (#8410844)
    There is no point for every driver on the highway to have this system in their car. Afterall, the car next to you is not likely to report anything different than what you're reporting at any given time.

    However, think of this usage. A local radio and TV station operation offers to pay to have this system installed in 2000 volunteer's cars, and those people are paid $250 or so a year to participate. Suddenly, this station will have a a very informative realtime traffic system, because as odds are one of their spotters will be delayed by any rainstorm or lane closure. What's more, the spotters don't have to do anything active to report that they've been stopped or slowed, since the system phones in their reports for them.

    There's no need for everybody's privacy to be violated, because this doesn't need a census, just a sample. If a few people are willing to give up some privacy, the whole public can benefit from the data collected in the form of better traffic advisories.
  • Big Brother FORD? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by n()_cHIEFz ( 203036 ) <nochiefs AT hotmail DOT com> on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:40PM (#8410863) Homepage
    I really don't see how this will have any impact on traffic. You may know everything about the status of the vehicles but how is that going to lessen the load of traffic? Seems to me it would be just as effective to install sensors along the roadway that monitor traffic flow and suggest re-routes as needed. Really this is just another way for big brother to watch us.

    Oh, BTW, for all you Ford haters out there, my '82 Ford Bronco is still running after 215 thousand miles. Never had any major work other than replacing the oil pump. Environmentalists procede with the flaming on my gas guzzling beast, but I do live in New Mexico and take my car off road all the time, I don't own an SUV just because they're cool or big.
  • by TheTomcat ( 53158 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:51PM (#8410990) Homepage
    Embed the sensors in the roads..

    I use this [gouv.qc.ca] every day to choose which way to go home (red on Decarie (the 15) is particularly bad).

    S
  • by CheapScott ( 83584 ) <e1-v8r0-qj13-8193@emailias.com> on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:54PM (#8411034)
    Here's the question, though...

    Would you drive a car with the intent of being monitored if it meant that your insurance company would give significant fee breaks or if the government gave rebates of some form?

    If you start to put money into the equation, things start to seem more interesting than threatening, n'est-ce pas?
  • by snub ( 140826 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @02:59PM (#8411085)
    After they installed cockpit monitoring devices in all vehicles, the insurance companies analyzed the data and found an amazing coincidence. The last words said in 80% of all pickup truck accidents were the same: "Hey, hold my beer and watch this!"

    Before anyone flames me: I drive an F-150.
  • by tazanator ( 681948 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @03:01PM (#8411109)
    I watched when my Kenworth T600 was in the shop, thay hooked up a system the size of a laptop and had a complete report from speed to RPM's to brake use and pressure. It even showed air pressure to the suspension giving them an idea of how much weight was on each axle. Combined with the qualcomm on board they knew within 3 feet where and what I was doing every 15 min. with the company truck.
  • Car monitoring (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Bender Unit 22 ( 216955 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @03:14PM (#8411252) Journal
    Ok, monitoring the car can be good or bad. Here's a little story from the real world.

    Someone had a very expensive car, the kind of car that cost a fortune to get a insurance for. So the car got a tracking device installed to get a lower insurance. These devices are normally intalled in different places hard to find unless you take the entire car apart and also has their own battery.

    One day the police got a call from the company tracking these cars for the insurance company. The car appeared to had been stolen and was going down the freeway. The police got running updates of the location of the car. drove after it down the freeway and ended up "capturing" the thief in a parking lot by blocking the exits with police cars.
    The "thief" turned out to be a family member not normally driving the car who had forgotten to disarm the alarm.
    The alarm did not make any noise if not disarmed, it just sat there, sending the coordinates from a gps antenna through the cell phone network.

    So the owner was happy to see that the alarm indeed worked but less happy about all the attention the Saturday shopping got.
    The story said nothing about the price for this mistake.
    • Re:Car monitoring (Score:4, Informative)

      by SirWhoopass ( 108232 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @04:16PM (#8411785)
      How about the On Time [ppsontime.com] system?

      A microprocessor and display are installed in a vehicle that has been purchased with a loan. The display indicates if your loan payment is current. As the due date approaches, the display warns you. Should you miss a payment, your vehicle is automatically disabled. When you make a payment, the loan company sends you a code to enter in to the system, giving you another month of vehicle use.

      This isn't some test system. It has been used in more than 100,000 vehicles throughout the United States. Right now they are being used in situations where people are a credit risk. Typically the person has the income to afford the vehicle, but has a history of late or missed payments.

  • by handy_vandal ( 606174 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @03:37PM (#8411457) Homepage Journal
    They call it a "traffic monitor". But traffic is a higher-level function: traffic is an aggregate of vehicle data.

    Really, these things should be called "vehicle monitors". But that phrase conjures up such ... invasive implications ....

    -kgj
  • by John Courtland ( 585609 ) on Friday February 27, 2004 @03:45PM (#8411530)
    Perhaps in a few years there can be a democratic road system that more or less lives off of information provided by cars (anonymously of course). It continuously checks the flow, adjusts lights to match, even offering on-road re-routes ahead of time to avoid large delays. Radio and digital displays are nice, but they aren't quick enough to really help 90% of the rush hour drivers.
  • umm, yeah. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by H8X55 ( 650339 ) <jason.r.thomasNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Friday February 27, 2004 @04:42PM (#8411995) Homepage Journal
    "Yes, Mr. Thomas, the data pulled from your 2005 Ford Mustang GT indicates that you were going 134 mph when you wrecked last night at 3:27am. Local weather reports show that it was raining, yet your wipers, as well as headlights were out. Our assumption is you were drunk. Claim denied."

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