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The Internet Technology

IPv6 Rollout Japan, China in 2005 191

Posted by Hemos from the what's-the-real-roll-out dept.
Killjoy_NL writes "The digitimes have a piece that is reporting that IPv6 will be rolled out in China and Japan in 2005. Makes me wonder when the rest of the world will follow suit" We had a good piece a couple months back about the state of IPv6. CowboyNeal is ready!
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IPv6 Rollout Japan, China in 2005 More

IPv6 Rollout Japan, China in 2005

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  • China? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Exiler ( 589908 ) on Saturday March 20, 2004 @12:40PM (#8621469)
    An IP address for every chinese citizen? Time to start working on IPv8!

    (-1, I Like Chinese)

    • Re:China? (Score:1, Interesting)

      by myownkidney ( 761203 )
      Yeah considering a lot of people who use disposable IP addresses [mithuro.com] for spamming come from that area...
    • Because of the number of IP addresses in IPv6, every individual could receive over a million IP's and we'd still have tons left over. In fact, the number of people it would require in order to take up the IPv6 space is so large that this planet could not physically sustain them all...not merely due to a lack of resources, but it _physically_ couldn't sustain them.

      340282366920938463463374607431768211456 is an awfully big number. Its over a quadrillion times the number of square millimeters on the surface

      • Re:China? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by fyonn ( 115426 ) <dave@fyonn.net> on Saturday March 20, 2004 @02:00PM (#8621942) Homepage
        340282366920938463463374607431768211456 is an awfully big number. Its over a quadrillion times the number of square millimeters on the surface of this planet!

        it is a big number, but remember that ipv6 address space is very sparse in the 128bit address sense. as each customer is likely to receive a /48 network that makes the first 48 bits very dense in usage, but after that, it'll be almost empty.

        in reality the address space that can be assigned is a /48. the 96 bits after that are for the customer to use themselevs. /16 for their own subnets and 64 bits for host portion of the ip address. so thats 281474976710656 assignments. still alot mind you but ipv6 isn't effectively as big as most people claim.

        dave
        • Yeah, but there's enough room in those 96 bits that a single "customer" with a /48 could be a large company, school, or even a small country that would otherwise be using a /16 or /8.
          • oh yes, indeed. that 96 bits for the customer breaks down to 16 bits for subnet address (so thats 65536 networks) each with as many machines on the lan as you can stuff.

            the sparcity of the networks gives the great autoconfig stuff, and as many ip aliases as you like.

            what I wonder is what happpens when you've got mulitple sites with multiple connections. your single /48 might well be enough but can you split your network over multiple sites like that? or will you merely order a /48 per site?

            dave

            • Re:China? (Score:3, Interesting)

              by pediddle ( 592795 )
              I'm sure it would be possible to configure a /48 split over multiple sites, on the ISP level, but I can't imagine why you'd want to. There are still more /48s available to the world than the entire IPv4 address space.

        • Re:China? (Score:3, Informative)

          by mark-t ( 151149 )
          In actuality, each "customer" would be an entire ISP, corporation, or institution, not just one particular individual. ISP's could assign blocks of IP's to individual domestic subscribers as they see fit (I can't imagine that a domestic subscriber would need more than a few thousand IP's, and that's allowing for every device in his household, from his VCR and washing machine to his toaster and alarm clock radio, was connected to the internet with a unique IP, which I don't think would ever actually happen
        • Sheesh, we will have this discussion again when get everyone one of those 281 address - spaces - have been given to a single human being shall we?

          Even _counting_ to 2^128 is a daunting task. Actually, with current computers even counting to 2^64 takes practically forever if I'm not mistaken.

          You could always put the entire galaxy into a public address space if it comes that far :)
    • did you know that giving even 10^5 ipv6 addresses every second, we might not run out before the heat death of the universe?
      2^128 is a f###ing large number...

  • Slashdot IPv6 (Score:5, Funny)

    by FrostedWheat ( 172733 ) on Saturday March 20, 2004 @12:40PM (#8621470)
    CowboyNeal is ready!

    Yea, but is Slashdot?

    Seems the idea site to have support for IPv6. Last time I checked (late last year) Slashdot didn't do IPv6.

    Heck, they still use GIFs...

  • finally! (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Quasar1999 ( 520073 )
    I've been waiting for IPv6 for years... I was still in HighSchool when they supposedly started the switch over... Man I feel old...

    • Re:finally! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Saven Marek ( 739395 ) on Saturday March 20, 2004 @01:00PM (#8621589)
      And at the rate the rollout is being dragged along your kids will be in highschool before anyone next hears of it. The entire world is able to change over to IPV6 within a short timespan as long as there's a concerted effort to do so. Humans don't ever expend effort, as a group, unless they're pushed to. Hopefully with a nation the size of China working towards it, it'll drag us and the rest of the world with them much quicker.

      Then again we're still using Imperial measurements when the rest of the world is metric. Go figure that one

      Adult Mac Desktops & Wallpapers [67.160.223.119]
      • Wanna change that? When you go buy something, ask for it in liters, centimeters/meters, grams, etc.

        Enought people doing that, and someone will sell a scale at the grocery store that dislpays both metric and imperial. (like car spedometers)

  • Won't this (Score:4, Interesting)

    by robslimo ( 587196 ) on Saturday March 20, 2004 @12:41PM (#8621477) Homepage Journal
    throw a wrench in the spoke of the DoD's plan for a new, newer IP?

    Seriously, I think it'll be good. Might throw some weight against the stone wall that's holding back the US and rollout of IPv6 in general. I'd imagine that with such largescale rollouts the hardware will get cheaper and will help drive adoption worldwide.

    • Re:Won't this (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Loualbano2 ( 98133 )
      I thought this was discussed until everyone was blue in the face. Go back and read the article, the only person saying this protocol is for the Internet is the author. This doesn't make it fact. Authors of articles get things all mixed up all the time. If you read all of the quotes from Dr. Injong Rhee, he never said it was for the Internet.

      People come out with new versions of IP occasionally. This doesn't mean that they are necessarily:

      1. For the Internet
      2. Ever going to be used

      IPv6 is a standard
      • Reread my first sentence. It was meant to be a joke, though I'll admit it was more than a little humor-impaired. Facetious maybe, but not goddamn facetious. I didn't bother commenting in that prior article, having dismissed it as an obscure research project not likely to amount to anything.

        Reread my main point. It presumes IP6 is the next step in a logical progression and hints that marketing forces are the prime obstacle to adoption.

        Relax; enjoy a refreshing beverage. No one is impuning or supplanti

  • Oh, wonderful. (Score:5, Funny)

    by joeszilagyi ( 635484 ) on Saturday March 20, 2004 @12:41PM (#8621481)
    Another 945,478,233,526,156 IP addresses I need to blacklist from spamming me.

  • Other Countries slow to follow (Score:5, Insightful)

    by pholower ( 739868 ) <longwoodtrail@NOSpAm.yahoo.com> on Saturday March 20, 2004 @12:42PM (#8621484) Homepage Journal
    Japan also rolled out 3G wireless before everyone else. Have we incorporated as much as Japan? No. Japan has always been ahead of the curve for this type of stuff. But only because they don't have all of the infrastructure flaws other countries do. Besides, how weird would it be to type ::1 instead of 127.0.0.1?

    • I like to mess with people who know a little about networking and ask them to ping 127.12.34.65 - They look at me funny.

      "I thought 127.0.0.1 was the loop back"

    • Japan also rolled out 3G wireless before everyone else. Have we incorporated as much as Japan? [...] But only because they don't have all of the infrastructure flaws other countries do.

      Japan is also much more densly populated, so it's more cost effective to roll out advanced wireless products there. If by "infrastructure flaws" you mean the ability to make an upgrade in a smaller area to benefit more customers, then yes Japan has fewer of those. They also have a state run telephone network that is increa

      • Re:Other Countries slow to follow (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Vancorps ( 746090 ) on Saturday March 20, 2004 @02:09PM (#8621995)
        This is a point a lot of people forget about. Japan is a little collection of Islands and so rolling out new wireless technology is relatively cheap for them.

        However, China is also getting in on the game, they have a state run monopoly though so they can set policy, might add that they also have no existing infrastructure in very large portions of their country which they will soon change but that means no upgrade, just pure new equipment.

        The United States does have a flaw in their system but its debatable whether or not to call it a flaw. They have to make the largest number of people happy. End users probably couldn't care less about IPv4 or v6. Businesses small and large probably do and will fight to keep things working. Of course, many of these people don't realize their routers and switches all support IPv6 already because it has been around a long time.

        Basically the only reason people upgrade in the U.S. at this point is because a natural disaster or some other event occurs that destroys the infrastructure, getting a telco to upgrade is like getting a child to spinach after the proclaimed they wanted chocolate.

        • Basically the only reason people upgrade in the U.S. at this point is because a natural disaster
          Or if a major sigment of the connected network moves to IPv6, like the Department of Defense is scheduled to do by 2008: link (PDF) [usipv6.com].
          • The DoD is not a major segment of the Internet that end-users or businesses see or care about.

            One might also argue that the DoD switching would slow the progress of other parts of the country because the DoD likes to test the land first, have some time to themselves before they allow other people to use the technology they've helped create. They have real pull with the legislature so if they want people to delay they launch then it will happen.

            That said, IPv6 is quite mature as is and the DoD has been usi

            • The DoD is not a major segment of the Internet that end-users or businesses see or care about.

              But a significant ammount of DoD traffic is sent over the public internet, which must be a large ammount of data. This data is sent via backbone providers (which are buisnesses). These providers would have to support to IPv6 to interface with DoD systems in the future. This will serve to push IPv6 to wider adoption with connected backbones and out to end users (other buisnesses or individuals.) It's a cascade ef

              • I believe you have it backwards, the DoD would hold off using IPv6 because they use commerical networks. Commercial networks would have to adopt it first since you can't wrap IPv6 inside of IPv4. At least, not in a way I've heard of.

                Of course, they could create a vpn connection using IPv4 in which case their effect would be neglegible on the rest of the Internet.

    • Re:Other Countries slow to follow (Score:4, Insightful)

      by DragoonAK ( 17095 ) on Saturday March 20, 2004 @02:23PM (#8622080)
      Actually, Japan wants IPv6 because they have a lot less IPs per citizen than the US does. I can't be bothered to look up the actual numbers right now, but I remember figures on the order of 100 IPs/US Citizen and 7 IPs/Japanese Citizen. China's most likely in the same boat.

      P.S. If there was a US city with 30 million people, they'd have 3G damn fast. Wireless and high population density go together well.

  • Less mature infrastructure ? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ThomasFlip ( 669988 ) on Saturday March 20, 2004 @12:44PM (#8621497)
    Wouldn't it be true that these countries would have an easier time implementing IPV6 ? Their countrie's internet infrastructre can't be nearly as mature as the United States, therefore I'm sure it would be a lot cheaper/less complicated to implement the protocol. The United States would also have to contend with the the private sectors wants/needs which rely on this infrastructure heavily. I dont think that would be as prevalent in these Asian countries.
    • Yeah, this is a common phenomenon. Compare to the way cellphones took off in Europe as opposed to the US. Yes, part of it was geography and population density, but another big part was that the well-etablished US phone infrastructure was a lot cheaper to consumers than the comparative European networks. No per minute charges for local calls and all that.

      An even better example is the way most developing nations are largely jumping straight to cell phones and avoiding setting up all those expensive copper wi

  • The fun will begin... (Score:3, Funny)

    by MsGeek ( 162936 ) on Saturday March 20, 2004 @12:47PM (#8621510) Homepage Journal
    ...when Japan rolls out Protocol Seven [cjas.org].

    Present day...present time! Ha ha ha ha ha ha!

  • Like the Metric System (Score:5, Insightful)

    by alue ( 253363 ) <alan.lue@PASCALgmail.com minus language> on Saturday March 20, 2004 @01:05PM (#8621625)
    The US will adopt IPv6 as quickly as it's adopted the metric system [colostate.edu].

  • I remember when... (Score:1, Interesting)

    by su2ge ( 713552 )
    Ahh, how I remember laughing extremely hard when I heard news that Cisco was recalling their releases of their new IOS that supported IPv6 when they discovered that they left off a whole octet of numbers. That was awhile ago though. Chalk that one up as a blunder. In a way, I do agree with most in saying that IPv6 is way too big for right now. However, in looking ahead at all of the new devices we are getting that have network connections and require IP Addresses.... IPv6 pretty much gives you an excuse to
  • So I'll assume they are beating the US so they can grab up all the addresses. US right now holds what - 80% of all IP's worldwide? After this, 0.5% of all IP's!

  • You need to ask for it (Score:3, Insightful)

    by chrismcc@netus.com ( 24157 ) <[chrismcc] [at] [gmail.com]> on Saturday March 20, 2004 @01:42PM (#8621811) Homepage
    Hello...

    I have asked several transit providers here in the USA about providing IPv6. The answer, "Nobody is asking for it".

    The Tier 1 and Tier 2 ISPs will not provide IPv6 until there is a market for it.

    The solution? Ask for native IPv6 (not tunnels) from your ISP. If you switch ISPs ask for IPv6 in the RFP.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 )
      Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • The answer, "Nobody is asking for it".

      perhaps your could point out that they are very blatently lieing to you.

      *you're* asking!

      I've asked my two isp's for ipv6 too, not been overly successful yet either.

      dave
    • It will happen eventually. When the DoD and parts of the US government start demanding that its suppliers and partners connect to it over IPv6, then you see those ISPs start offering access. But yeah, it probably will not happen from any push within the corporate or consumer market.
    • And when your boss asks why that line the RFP seems to drive up the cost/exclude the preferred providers, what will your business justification be?

      "Ipv6 is cool?"
  • Could someone please clarify what is meant by "roll-out" in the article? It wasn't clear to me what they were talking about. My observation is that demand for addresses comes from the leaf nodes, and there is little or no end user access equipment available that does IPv6, so does this mean that they expect some to be widely available by 2005?

  • I'm confused .. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by stevey ( 64018 ) on Saturday March 20, 2004 @02:13PM (#8622023) Homepage

    I admit ignorance, but I know that one of the reasons for converting to IPv6 is the shortage of IP addresses.

    Every now and again we hear that we're just about to run out due to historically crazy giveaways of addresses, then we hear that this isn't the case.

    Anyway, if an entire nation, or large group of people move over to IPv6 does this mean that the IPv4 addressed they previously held would become free, and available back in the pool for allocation?

    So to gain lots of addresses all we need is say China to move to IPv6, or a country like Germany?

    I maybe be misunderstanding, but I thought that this is how the IPv6 tunnels worked - all IPv6 stuff on a LAN gets tunnelled via one external x.x.x.x IP address.

    With Chinas great firewall surely this means they could have a few external IPv4 addresses that are proxying things over to the internal IPv6 country?

    Feel free to hit me with a cluestick if I'm confused...

  • See this document [ipv6tf-sc.org] and this site [ipv6tf.org]. And this one for the rest of the world [ipv6tf.org].

    Also news posted at the IPv6 Cluster [ist-ipv6.org].

    By the way, a new tunnel broker is available here [euro6ix.org], also with Spanish instructions at 6SOS [6sos.org].

  • Seems like /. editors only have a problem with the shoutterm memory, explaning all the dupes. However remembering stories from months back is no problem. Interesting!
  • Want to jump in with IPv6 now? Your ISP doesn't offer it to you? Get a free tunnel like this one from HE [he.net]. I'm sure there's others, but this is the only one I know off the top of my head.
  • If we all just switched to IPv6 *now*, we would not have to worry about spammers or zombie machines. Why? Because these assholes that fill up my mailbox would not be able to find the braindead people on "dial-up" or "always-on" connections.

    Futhermore, IPv6 is designed so that addresses can be rotated (new address every minute). This is a much nicer feature.

    This is the only way to stop open relays - make the address space so big that nothing can find another computer, randomly at least :)

    The blacklists wo

  • Slashdot has no IPv6 address. It would be pretty trivial for you to set one up too. All of my systems are on IPv6.

  • You can IPv6-enable your network(s) now, using the global 6to4 address space. With a 6to4 gateway you can talk to other 6to4 hosts using transparent tunneling over ipv4, without the ipv6 hosts being aware of it. Any recent Linux or BSD should have support for acting as a 6to4 gateway.

    With a relatively recent setup, you should find that your default route to the 'real' ipv6 internet is 192.88.99.1, a multicast address that finds the nearest 6to4-to-native gateway. My IPv6 internal hosts can talk to the nat

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