GNOME for Grandma 443
An anonymous reader writes "PCWorld colmnist Matthew Newton has written an interesting two part article titled "In Search of Linux for Grandma", in which he shares his thoughts on introducing computers to a 75 year old PC neophyte (through Linux).
He discusses the new spatial Nautilus that he is planning to unleash upon grandma, and quote from the article - "Grandma is never going to learn about "opening a file manager" to "navigate her way" to her documents. They are all going to live in plain view in folders on her desktop. And when she opens them, there won't be any surprises."."
Gnome for Grandma? (Score:5, Funny)
Next
Offended (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Offended: Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
I thought the article to be very insightful/interesting, as it would greatly simplify my grandmother's life.
Re:Offended (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, you don't have enough "technical competance" to reply to the right post on slashdot. So, I think you proved the posters point. Good job.
Anyways, I'd be willing to be all of my net worth that over 95% of grandmothers have a very low level of technical competance. You are the exception (and also a fairly young grandmother).
I would disagree (Score:4, Insightful)
It's all a matter of making learned guesses and rationalizing ones way through the given information. Not all grandmothers are old. Most seniors have little to no technical training. I can't say for certain whether one becomes harder to train the older one gets.
As for the statement on discrimination: while I certainly disagree with discrimination in any form, I don't see it happening here or in the article. Discrimination is a directed action against representatives of a group. When software developers develop or talk about designing software for grandmothers, they are simply making assumptions based on numbers. If one were to turn down a job applicant for a technical job, for instance, for simply being a grandmother, then THAT is discrimination.
Re:Offended (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Offended - M3 2 (Score:3, Interesting)
For that matter, who's to say the even techinically incompetent individuals may not want things simplified? I work with techinical incompetents (of diverse ages) who seem to have a definite preference for keeping things as complicated as they possibly can...
A desire, preference, or choice for simplicity over complexity is not necesarily an indicator of technical competence or l
Re:Offended (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Offended (Score:5, Interesting)
Most humans can't keep upto date with technology as they age, neither should they be required to. I sure as hell will not want to learn Perl 45.0 20 years from now.
Obligatory Duke Nukem Whenever comment (Score:4, Funny)
If you mod this up, you're sadder than I thought.
If you mod this down, you've no sense of humour.
sounds like something i could use (Score:2, Funny)
Heh (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Heh (Score:5, Insightful)
I think Albert Einstein said something similar.
In real life, the teach-a-man-to-fish aphorism is practicle and less painful in the long run.
Suited for corporate environment for same reasons (Score:3, Insightful)
Grandmas don't typically install/uninstall things, buy new hardware or software, upgrade their drivers, but when they do their IT staff (children or grandchildren) take care of it. It would be assinine to expect everyone in the world to become amateur sysadmins, most people just want to use their computer not fiddle with it.
Linux provides a rock s
Re:Heh (Score:4, Interesting)
I don't think the author of this article gives old people enough credit.
Re:Heh (Score:3, Insightful)
My grandparents only have a touch-tone telephone because they have to.
Re:Heh (Score:2)
Cron job calls it, it goes to the configured servers, updates it's software list, then goes through the list and upgrades the software that have updates available. Works nicely for Debian and Mandrake, as well as variations of Debian such as Knoppix.
A distribution Upgrade would take a bit more work, but if I were to put something like this together f
But... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:But... (Score:2)
Dilbert's Mom [unitedmedia.com]
Free software lacks usability testing (Score:5, Interesting)
Perhaps one explanation for the poor usability of many open source apps is that while open source may be a great way to engineer software, the lone hacker collaborating via the Internet is ill-equipped to do anything even approaching proper usability testing.
All may not be lost, perhaps a software tool could be written to make such usability testing easier. It could record a user's desktop(perhaps using something like VNC), while also recording their audio commentary on what they are doing.
Re:Free software lacks usability testing (Score:4, Insightful)
But still, I agree that BugZilla aren't a tool for everyone. Filing a bug about something is for better-knowers, not for the average user. Thus, interface problems won't solve without careful research like you state here.
While the projects were before standalone and small, they've now got big corporations and more money behind them. As long as they don't control the software for their own good, as at least Ximian/Novell never has done, I think the window systems will gain much from this in the years to come.
Being a GNOME supporter myself, I'm very happy with the newest release. But there are still things to fix - a lot of things that seem unpolished and featureless. I miss some extendibility in the spatial nautilus, and easier access to configuration here and there. But as earlier problems have been, these will get eliminated in a while.
Re:Free software lacks usability testing (Score:2)
I do believe you are wrong. (Score:5, Informative)
Your original comment makes it appear that you have not used a recent version of Gnome (2.4 or 2.6) because it that project a very prominent example of how free software can have a focus on usability and still provide useful applications. You really ought to try it out if you haven't lately.
You believe wrong (Score:3, Insightful)
And your comments make it appear that you aren't reading m
Meaningless (Score:3, Insightful)
Perhaps *you* aren't reading your own comments properly. You said usability testing wasn't being done, I showed you that indeed it was. So now you twist your original comment and pretend you were talk
Re:Free software lacks usability testing (Score:3, Interesting)
Observation experiments were becomming a standard part of the development cycle. In fact this is the first time that user-centricity was formally dealt with and the science of cognitive ergonomics evolved
When it comes to simplistic design you have an advantage in this testing pha
Re:Free software lacks usability testing (Score:2)
Right. So your system would test GUI usability
Re:Free software lacks usability testing (Score:2)
Question (Score:5, Insightful)
what are you going to tell her, if you can not get it to work with wine?
I like the idea, but I am not sure Linux is ready
Re:Question (Score:2, Interesting)
If you limit it to just email and web browsing, then I think Linux is ready for this, if you set it up properly.
You can do your taxes over the web with Intuit's TurboTax online version.
If you add in that Grandma needs a word processor, spreadsheet, photo processing (got to get the grandkids pictures), etc. then the problem is a lot more difficult because you run into compatibility issues with
Re:Question (Score:3)
Turbotax for the web runs in Mozilla. I used it this year and last.
Re:Question (Score:3, Insightful)
"Linux isn't ready because the software support isn't there."
"The Software support wont be there until there's a reason for the Developer/Publisher to make a Linux version. The users must be there."
"But there wont be anyone using it unless they can use the software they hear about."
Yeah, it's a vicious circle, and nothing will happen unless someone gives, but who? Who has the least amount of risk, the end user who just needs someone to show them what to do
Re:Question (Score:5, Insightful)
with most home users this does not happen.
you almost never get the "Ohh shiny new software! Must have it!" Most users here are running whatever they got with the computer and the only software they buy is usually to fill the void that the computer had in it. and yes this is at home. Most linux distros now have no void for most users. it has an office suite, a cgheckbook application, email... everything that the regular user would want and use...
BTW, it is typical for people to buy a whole new computer and get upset that Windows/Office/Works/Quicken has changed and act's different now.. the same argument that I keep hearing about Linux's disadvantage..
So if my grandma can handle
Windows 95 with works 95 and Money 95 she certianly can handle Mandrake 10.0 with it's standard goodies and better card + board games. and no, she will not want to go out and buy some new software, all her needs are always funnled the same way the other family members are... "Lumpy, What should I buy? can you install it? I ran it over with my car, can you fix it? the cat puked in it, can you clean it?... and on and on... and they wonder why I start screaming incoherent things over the phone and have to be dragged to family gatherings....."
Oh yes (Score:3, Insightful)
They only buy new PC's because a) things are so screwed up and the PC(Windows) doesn't work anymore or b) at work they got a new PC and broadband and they finally
Re:Question (Score:3, Interesting)
Linux is just an OS; someone just has to put some attention to creating a package that makes a nice simple interface to mail and web. Has nothing to do with the OS, or even X. It's all in the Window Manager that sits on top of X, and the apps.
And I think the apps are there, and simple window managers are there, it's just a matter of someone configuring them to be accessable to technophobes, which means getting rid of all the hotkeys, and simplifying the interface s
My Vision (Score:5, Interesting)
During install give the layperson the following menu.
What do you want this computer to do:
( ) Send and Recieve e-mail
( ) Author Documents
( ) Browse the web
( ) Play Music
( ) More options I've missed
( ) Advanced
In the advanced panel there should be "Install Antivirus and Firewall and autoupdater"
automatically checked. (Dear Trolls/Flame-junkies: When linux makes serious dent in the user
market, linux will require AV)
There should be a basic mode and advanced mode interface.
Basic mode should just have the options that were set up during the install.
Advanced mode would allows access to a bash shell and what not.
Both modes should be proactively secure.
One suggestion is that the ability to open dangerous attachments should only be allows
if linked to the use of virus software.
Linux could totally wipe out Windows on all fronts if it had the design philosophy like an ATM:
It performs it's function, and it does it well.
It's an approach i've taken with my mother and the family Windows XP box. I created a custom shell that displayed "Microsoft Word", "Tesco Shopping", "Log Off" buttons.
I have a happy customer.
Simon.
Re:My Vision (Score:2, Funny)
This can't be right! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:My Vision (Score:2)
Re:Antivirus SW redundant for open-source... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Antivirus SW redundant for open-source... (Score:3, Interesting)
Do any other operating systems suffer from the list of problems that plauge Windows but not (currently) Linux?
To narrow it even more;
Does Mac OSX suffer from the list of problems that plauge Windows?
My point;
Why should Linux, in comparison to OSX, be worse for the same list of issues?
Re:Antivirus SW redundant for open-source... (Score:3, Interesting)
A local exploit is found in kde. or how about a remote one found in Gaim?
Everyone is reccomended to upgrade.
Can grandma do this? Most linewbies couldn't. I mean, I'd think twice about waiting until the next distro; with current rpm packaging systems, I've broken things past my knowledge of repair more than once.
It could be said that a point release wouldn't be as dramatic, but all but the largest projects just tell people to upgrade to the new version. How long will even KDE keep up with older r
Re:Antivirus SW redundant for open-source... (Score:3, Informative)
Pure debian doesn't have one, but I'd be more inclined to call debian a distribution framework than and actual distribution. I'd have to assume that Xandros, Linspire, Libranet, Lycoris, and all the other debian-based consumer desktop
Re:VERY bad idea (Score:3, Insightful)
Not gonna work. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Not gonna work. (Score:2)
Re:Not gonna work. (Score:2)
Re:Not gonna work. (Score:5, Funny)
What you don't realize is that Grandma deliberately breaks things because, damn it, you don't come over and visit enough.
Just who do you think sets up the troubleshooting section of the RHCE exam?
And when in hell are you going to give her some grandkids?
Re:Not gonna work. (Score:3, Insightful)
You're right, what we need to see are the reactions of people who know a little bit more about com
This has to be done.... (Score:5, Funny)
I don't see anything spatial about the new nautilus
Dang...
Re:This has to be done.... (Score:2)
Enough is Enough (Score:2)
Arguably, some people NEVER care about learning new things. Wow this hole I dug myself into is dark.
Re:Enough is Enough (Score:2)
Onion: (Score:5, Funny)
Above: Lillian Widmar attempts to e-mail her daughter.
"Jesus Christ, you have no idea," said Widmar after yet another unsuccessful lesson. "Every single thing I show her, no matter how simple, totally freaks her out. She's still afraid to click on pictures because she doesn't know where it's going to take her."
Widmar said she introduced her mother Lillian to the Internet at her request.
"It's funny, I was always trying to get her interested so I could e-mail her," Widmar said. "Then, one day, she called me up and said she was watching Today, and they had a guest on who made potatoes, and the recipe was online, and was that the same as the Internet? When I told her it was, she got really excited. Maybe I should've lied."
According to Widmar, the troubles began immediately.
"Trying to show her how to use the mouse took almost a week," Widmar said. "For some reason, she got it in her head that you had to hold the button down to make it move. Then, when I explained that the computer communicates over the telephone via her built-in modem, she kept asking where you hold the receiver. And she wouldn't stop calling the keyboard 'the typewriter.'"
Still more complications arose when Widmar tried to show her mother how to navigate a search engine.
"For practice, I logged onto Yahoo! and had her search for cheesecake recipes," Widmar said. "She got totally confused by the fact that we were searching within a web site for other web sites. She kept typing her keyword searches into the Internet Explorer address bar, not into the Yahoo! search bar. Then, when she accidentally typed 'cheesecake' into the Explorer box, it actually worked, because there happened to be a web site called that, so that just confused her even more."
After nearly a month, Lillian had finally gotten to the point where she could log onto a web site on her own. Almost every time, however, something unexpected would occur, causing her to panic and call her daughter for help.
Above: Karen Widmar with her mother Lillian, who continues to struggle with Internet use.
"It could be almost anything," Widmar said. "She goes apeshit whenever a pop-up window comes up. And one time, she paged me because she got a message about accepting cookies. She was all freaked out because now she thought she was being charged for actual cookies."
Widmar said her mother still does not grasp the difference between the Internet and e-mail.
"Whenever she wants to send me an e-mail, she says she's going to Internet me," Widmar said. "I think that's because we use AOL, so she has to log onto the Internet to do her e-mailing. Then there's chat rooms, which she thinks is e-mail. I just pray she never finds out about message boards. That'll throw her whole world into a tailspin."
Despite knowing next to nothing about computers or the Internet, Lillian will frequently attempt to troubleshoot problems using new terms she had heard.
"Every time she hears a new word involving computers, she incorporates it into her questions," Widmar said. "Last time she called, she said she couldn't get her e-mail working and that there must be something wrong with her firewall. I tried to explain that she didn't have a firewall, so she said her Java must be broken."
Widmar said her mother is a fairly anxious person in general, and that her recent forays into Internet use have only exacerbated those tendencies. Among her mother's greatest fears, Widmar said, is that she will be the target of computer crime.
"Last week, she freaked out because she got a porn spam," Widmar said. "Now she thinks they're targeting her for stalking or kidnapping. She wouldn't go near her computer for four days. She was also convinced that because the computer could send photos, it was capable of taking photos of her, maki
Spatial Nautilus (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Spatial Nautilus (Score:3, Informative)
Umm, one window per folder = spatial folders. Windows explorer has the panes with the tree on one side and the contents on the other and when you click on things they open in the same window.
Re:Spatial Nautilus (Score:3, Informative)
I believe the grandparent was referring to the mode available in Win95-98 and WinNT that opened a new window for each folder. This was not a sptial system, merely a scheme that opened new windows all over the place. A spatial scheme implies the existence of other attributes (only 1 view/window for any folder, and th
Won't grandma be surprised (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Won't grandma be surprised (Score:5, Insightful)
There's a reason Apple puts a global menu bar across the top of the screen and not in every window that appears on the screen.
Re:Won't grandma be surprised (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, but unfortunately there is more to a proper spatial interface than simply opening another window for each folder. Microsoft's implementation was very simplistic and failed to implement the atttribute preserving properties, and general "window as a folder" paradigm that spatial interfaces are all about.
I'm not a huge fan of spatial navigation - I don't think it's that great without some useful systems to make sure the window managment is easy (and note that the GNOME version has many of those, while the MS Windows version did not - another serious difference in usability right there) - but to compare a well implemented spatial interface with the very broken, half implemented system Windows used is pointless. The Windows95-2k "open folder in new window" scheme never grasped the key points of a spatial interface, it just aped roughly what Macs did.
Just because windows created a very bad, half assed version of the idea doesn't mean the idea is bad, merely that the MS implementation sucked.
Check your logic and try again.
Jedidiah.
If by Nautilus you mean "GUI"... (Score:2)
My grandma worked for IBM (Score:2)
can you imagine (Score:2)
Anyone who writes meaningless jargon like (Score:2, Insightful)
Has no chance of explaining anything to the technically challenged.
FileSystem for Grandma? (Score:4, Insightful)
You just lost Grandma. Heck you just lost my dad.
You want to know how to design a computer for Grandma? You design it like a TV or a toaster is designed. Task oriented rather than open ended.
Re:FileSystem for Grandma? (Score:2)
Re:FileSystem for Grandma? (Score:5, Insightful)
Think about it... was your TV really designed to work like something else? Pressing buttons to change "channels", turn on "muting" and show "closed captioning" are all pretty abstract and bizarre sounding concepts to someone who has never used a TV. The TV user had to learn all this stuff from scratch, yet few people complain about this.
Computers shouldn't be built to behave like TV's, and TV's shouldn't be built to behave like toasters. The user interface for technology should reflect the best and most efficient way to use that particular piece of technology. If you do it right (and there's no magic bullet, other than KEEP IT SIMPLE), your average grandma will learn it just fine. Give people some credit, they're not quite as stupid as they look
My Grandmother: a story. (Score:5, Interesting)
We bought a simple Compaq for her back in the late '90's which was running Windows '98. It was a constant source of consternation and trouble. I spoke with her, and after a little debating, convinced her to 'revolutionize' her computing experience by installing Linux.
This I infact did, putting SuSE on her machine. I told her: "now, just leave the machine on all the time. You can leave the 'internet' window (aka, browser) always open. Be happy!"
Happy she is. While the DE used is actually KDE, the success of her transition goes to show that Linux is ready. In all honesty, I was surprised with the rapidity with which she grew accustomed to her system.
The most advantageous thing about moving her over: no longer are there long stretches of time where she can't email because her computer is on the fritze (she often had to wait for me or her son to visit and correct things). We've been in constant electronic communication since. It's wonderful.
Re:My Grandmother: a story. (Score:2)
2. Your grandmother is only using the internet and email. No one ever said Linux wasn't ready for that kind of work. The problem is w
Re:My Grandmother: a story. (Score:5, Funny)
Works for her, does it?
Might not be too hard. (Score:3, Interesting)
The big problem's setting it up - so the focus should presumably be on a setup and install system that basically runs itself. This is where Linux can be tricky, but to be honest, when I installed SuSE 9, it was fine.
A clueless n00b will always need help, especially if they've never seen a computer being used before (which is the worst case scenario), so why not teach Grandma how to use it and set it up for her at the same time? And why not get used to using Linux rather than Windows as a first system? Importantly, Linux is harder to break, if you stay out of root, and doesn't suffer from viruses etc.
I think Linux for grandmas is perfectly feasible with modern distros.
Re:Might not be too hard. (Score:3, Insightful)
So Grandma goes out and buys a cheapie lexmark colour inkjet printer from Circuit City for $40 (say, the LEX Z705).
And then what?
Get Granny a Mac (Score:3, Interesting)
Unless Granny is very bright and willing to learn, get her a Mac and use "Simple Finder" or whatever it's called.
Mine's 71. I gave her an old iBook running Mac OS9 and she's happy as a clam (no pun int.) She uses the bundled OE & IE. Nothing else.
Dare I say it? (Score:2, Funny)
My grandma (Score:5, Interesting)
I setup 4 icons for her to click on.. OpenOffice 1.0 (writer), Mozilla, Mozilla Mail, and a button that does a shutdown -h now.. that's it..
I also setup the system with diald, so she doesn't have to figure out how to startup a ppp session.. works great.. she only calls me once a month about "problems with the computer" which always mean, something she forgot, and is doing incorrectly.. like when trying to click with the mouse, highlighting text in OOo, and then typing over the top of whole paragraphs of text.
"grandma, just use the keyboard"
Hey come on... (Score:5, Insightful)
This has been a public service announcement from the Grandparents are not Clueless Idiots Association...
Normal service is now being resumed... flame on...
Windows Killed My Grandma (Score:4, Funny)
How do you sleep at night, Bill Gates? Oh, yeah, that's right. On a bed of money.
But then again, now that Grandma's dead, so do I. Thanks, Bill! Now I know why everyone buys your stuff!
Re:Windows Killed My Grandma (Score:2)
Not the windows install but the not properly setting it up up part to allow all of that to happen
But kudos on a fairly funny post
At least I'm not the only one! (Score:2, Insightful)
Its my job to make sure that all the people I know have their videos set to the correct time, the TV is tuned, the remote control works and the computer prints, e-mails and connects to the "interweb"
They don't care what "operating system" they use, they can barely pronounce "operating system" without strange facial contortions. All they want is e-mail, instant
Re:At least I'm not the only one! (Score:5, Informative)
It doesn't matter if Open Office has "a squirrely install" - so does Microsoft Office.
I just installed Office 2003 on my laptop here:
1. Put the CD in the drive
2. Enter the registration key
3. Select "Complete Installation"
4. Wait and watch the blinkenlights
That was it. Nothing squirrely there, I'm afraid. Yes, MSFT is an easy target - but there's no reason to blame them or their products inaccurately. It just reflects poorly on the rest of some very good points.
Re:At least I'm not the only one! (Score:5, Informative)
1. Put the CD in the drive
2. Enter the registration key
3. Select "Complete Installation"
4. Wait and watch the blinkenlights
That was it. Nothing squirrely there, I'm afraid.
Compare that to
#apt-get install openoffice.org
or a couple of clicks in Synaptic. Steps 2 and 3 are pretty squirrely compared to that and if you have a net connection, step 1 should seem a bit weird, as well.
It's not just Debian that's this easy: Gentoo and *BSD folks tell me it's that easy for them too.
I have to admit that MS does have us beaten in the blinkenlights department. Blinkenlights have obviously been a top priority throughout their corporate history.
The circle of crap is complete.... (Score:2, Funny)
So this is for Grandma, eh? (Score:5, Funny)
personal experience: family on Gnome on FreeBSD (Score:3, Insightful)
GNOME is "good enough" the way it is. Personally, I wouldn't attempt to make my grandparnts change. My grandpa is 91 and my grandma is 81. They don't really use their computer much, but can do what they do (email and that's about it). For christs sake, they're old enough, you know? why make them suffer more over so trivial an issue?
Re:personal experience: family on Gnome on FreeBSD (Score:5, Interesting)
While my parents are not as old as yours, they have been retired for a number of years now. About a month ago their win98 machine was due for it's annual fdisk like clockwork! Anyhow my mother asked why she cant try linux. Frustrated by Windows and couldnt understand why i never get p*ssed off with my linux box! I explained that much of her software might not work (the odd thing might run through wine) but she could use linux for her email and web browsing etc.
I tried her with knoppix first to give her a feel for it; evidently she picked it up almost immediately. My dad who is much less savvy has even migrated with no problems.
Anyway eventually I set them up dual booting windows and linux (Mandrake 10). The choice is theirs to make but 90% of the time its sitting there running linux and she just goes into windows to use the Family Tree Program now.
The best part is that from time to time when she goes into windows I hear her muttering about how much she hates windows!
nick
I know I'm rehashing... (Score:5, Interesting)
Rarely do I come across UIs on the mac that are confusing. Grammas everywhere should be so lucky.
Unless of course, YOU DON'T LOVE YOUR GRAMMA!!!
"New features" and learning from scratch. (Score:3, Insightful)
Spacial Nautilus just makes Gnome that much more like pre-OS X Mac OS. The new features they're advertising have been around since System 7. I like the changes, and I'll probably take advantage of them when using Gnome, but they aren't anything new.
To get back on topic, even with these "new" features, Linux is still much more complicated than Grandma can probably handle. Just because you like Linux and understand it doesn't mean that it's the right choice for Grandma. Think, why do you use Linux? Are any of those reason anything that you honestly think that Grandma cares about?
I remember when we first got my Grandfather a computer. We got an old Mac Plus running System 6.0.8 and set him up with a word processor and a printer. After a while we upgraded him to a IIsi. Then we got him a modem and put him on AOL. By the time he died he was on his fourth computer- a G4, and one of the better models at the time.
The point is that he learned slowly, but eventually got the hang of it. System 6 was a perfect place to start him at because it was simple, and let him adjust slowly to more modern technology. If I would have set him up with a modern OS I don't think he would have ever progressed past the word processing stage.
usable computers (Score:3, Interesting)
There's been quite a buzz on Slashdot lately wrt open source and usability. Making a computer easy to use for "Grandma" (an insulting label for non-Slashdorks) isn't about limiting the number of icons on the desktop, or choosing the right text labels that these "Grandmas" of the world will understand. The slashdot communal mind needs to understand that usable software isn't just about adding a shiney coating to the outside--usable software has to be designed that way from the very beginning, and is a huge undertaking!
If you're interested in usable software, consider checking out these books: "The Inmates are Running the Asylum" [amazon.com] by Alan Cooper, and Designing from Both Sides of the Screen [amazon.com] by Ellen Isaacs and Alan Walendowski.
Personally, I hope that the recent trend on slashdot to talk about usability is more than just a fad and the open source world is finally starting to come around. These books are good starting points.
BFD (Score:4, Insightful)
And there are plenty of surprises. (Not sure if Nautilus copies this or not, but this is what OS 7-9 did.) Double-click on the hard drive (or your home folder, or whatever) and put it in list/details view. Double-click on a folder--say, Documents. Go back to the parent window. Click the flippy triangle or plus sign or whatever next to Documents. Watch the "Documents" window close itself. Start explaining "spatial" to the user. Prepare for blank stares.
Face it: computers are complex devices that can perform a multitude of functions. Unless you are going to do only the most basic things (for example, only run a word processor and always save all your docs to the same folder) it will always be complex.
From my first time use of KDE: (Score:3, Interesting)
However I felt deeply alienated trying to use it myself. It had all this great bundled stuff, but I struggled to customize anything, save the wallpaper. Installing programs lead to aggravating dependency-something-or-others and it would take hours to do something that would take seconds in Windows.
However once it's all setup I'm sure it would be great, especially for grandma. I just don't have that kind of patience for headaches.
Spatial browser ... been DONE already! (Score:5, Informative)
IBM's OS/2 WorkPlace Shell (WPS) has been using the spatial browser method for many, many years.
Open up a folder anywhere, one window for one folder. It retains it's size and position from the last time you closed it, and yes, even scroll bar position and view (different views are possible).
SHIFT+double-click to close the parent while opening up the child, and just right-click to bring up the menu to open the parent.
Sound familiar?
The features go on and on...and by the way, here's one thing that Nautilus doesn't have yet. The concept of a "Workspace".
Designate a folder as a Workspace in OS/2 WPS, and next time you open it, a complete environment will be restored. All open applications, all documents, any web browser links, etc. Close the folder, and everything closes up shop automatically.
Re:More like KDE for Grandma (Score:3, Insightful)
GMILFs (Score:3, Funny)
Mmm....
Re:Can grandma really learn this? (Score:2)
It's just a bunch of us geeks that have gotten used to other means of doing things, that's why it gets criticism. I, for one, like it.
Re:Slightly off-topic: KDE and Gnome (Score:2)
Gnome and KDE have a long glorious history of competing. Competition = good. Isn't that what the capitalists always say? Hmmm, that must mean that Microsoft is not capitalist. If they aren't capitalist, then they must be... COMMUNISTS! They're UNAMERICAN! Yea, that's it! That's the ticket! Convince the DOJ that MSFT is a commie front
Re:That's great! (Score:3, Insightful)
Not necessarily. An interface that is easy to learn the first time might be a nightmare to use repeatedly. An interface that is intuitive for a non-computer-literate person might seem idiotic to a more experienced user (MS Bob, anyone?). And an interface that is fundamentally good might seem bad to someone who spent 10 years using
Re:Not the problem for Joe User.... (Score:2)
Heck if given the ISO, and a Windows user can figure out how to burn to a CD, the Windows user could probably provide all the support necessary. Then again perhaps I think too highly of Windows users.....
-Rusty
Re:hey cool yet something else 90% of us have... (Score:2)
That's like saying chicken crap doesn't smell any worse than cow crap. It's still crap.
Re:Grandma is a hacker! (Score:5, Funny)
My other grandma is strictly mainframe.
"I know all about computers. My first job was running a computer. What the hell do I need a computer for?"
She ran a database system for a police department. On punch cards, in 1954. She would probably use vi, if we ever got her near a PC.
Re:The biggest question of them all... (Score:5, Insightful)
Now please tell me that knoppix or mandrake move requires the same attention.