Las Vegas Monorail Finally Ready To Open 469
doormat writes "The Las Vegas monorail is finally set to open to the public on July 15th! The project has had some problems - it was originally scheduled to open in March. The first part of the monorail, which uses Bombardier M-VI train vehicles, 'a derivative of the famous Walt Disney World Mark VI trains', is 4 miles long and connects several casinos on the east side of the Las Vegas Strip (see map, QT video), as well as the Las Vegas Convention Center (Home to CES, NAB, Networld+Interop and what was Comdex). Future phases seek to expand the monorail to downtown to the North, the west side of the strip, and eventually the University and the airport (which the taxicab and limo groups fight tooth and nail). I swear it's the strip's only choice... throw up your hands and raise your voice! Monorail, Monorail, Monorail! Mono... D'oh!"
wee simpsons (Score:2, Funny)
Re:wee simpsons (Score:2)
What happens in Brockway, stays in Brockway (Score:2, Funny)
Re:What happens in Brockway, stays in Brockway (Score:4, Funny)
Re:What happens in Brockway, stays in Brockway (Score:3, Funny)
Otherwise, depending on their power needs, 6-gauge wire should work.
$$$ according to Zagat (Score:5, Informative)
Re:$$$ according to Zagat (Score:5, Informative)
It's clearly marketed to the weekend tourists, rather than the local commuters. Tourists, many of whom fly in for the weekend, like to travel around town (no point in giving all your money to one casino when there are so many needy casino's in town). Now you've got a choice of a quick $3 monorail ride, a $8 cab fare through grid-locked streets, or hoofing it in the 100+ degree sun. It's a no-brainer.
Once they do get it to the airport (around 2007 or so), it'll be the best thing to hit Vegas since the machine-gun shooting range.
Re:$$$ according to Zagat (Score:4, Informative)
There's another one, its more of a gun store, and it's in N. Las Vegas. The folks there are a bit, ah... conspiracy fan-ish, but they've got some good gear.
Re:$$$ according to Zagat (Score:4, Informative)
Re:$$$ according to Zagat (Score:3, Informative)
Of course there are two extremely unfashionable modes of transport that would also get you from one end of the strip to the other. The first is your legs, although in Vegas that might be a non-starter. I'm not exagerating when I say I have never seen so m
Not that uncommon (Score:4, Interesting)
I think it goes to show that when you think of this kind of rapid transit system, don't think "bus fare," which is usually cheaper. It may also be because these systems are not subsidized by local or state authorities, forcing them to charge higher fare. (though I'm not sure if this is true in either of these cases)
Re:Not that uncommon (Score:3, Informative)
Cheers.
Re:Not that uncommon (Score:3, Informative)
This was for the buses trolleys, and BART trains.
I remember the adult version costing somewhere around $80-$100, and provided unlimited BART in the greater Bay Area.
Aren't these still available?
I hope (Score:2, Funny)
Re:I hope (Score:2)
Oblig. (Score:5, Funny)
Lyle Lanley: Well, sir, there's nothing on earth Like a genuine, Bona fide, Electrified, Six-car Monorail!
Ned Flanders: Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: What's it called?
Patty+Selma: Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: That's right! Monorail!
[crowd chants `Monorail' softly and rhythmically]
Miss Hoover: I hear those things are awfully loud...
Lyle Lanley: It glides as softly as a cloud.
Apu: Is there a chance the track could bend?
Lyle Lanley: Not on your life, my Hindu friend.
Barney: What about us brain-dead slobs?
Lyle Lanley: You'll all be given cushy jobs.
Abe: Were you sent here by the devil?
Lyle Lanley: No, good sir, I'm on the level.
Wiggum: The ring came off my pudding can.
Lyle Lanley: Take my pen knife, my good man.
I swear it's Springfield's only choice...
Throw up your hands and raise your voice!
All: [singing] Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: What's it called?
All: Monorail!
Lyle Lanley: Once again...
All: Monorail!
Marge: But Main Street's still all cracked and broken...
Bart: Sorry, Mom, the mob has spoken!
All: [singing] Monorail! Monorail! Monorail! [big finish] Monorail!
Homer: Mono... D'oh!
Wow, that's a big train! (Score:2, Funny)
I had to do a double-take when I read this the first time. I thought it said the train itself was 4 miles long...
Re:Wow, that's a big train! (Score:2)
i've always wondered... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:i've always wondered... (Score:2)
The midwest high speed rail stuff is farily cool too, but still a pipe dream.
Re:i've always wondered... (Score:2)
Re:i've always wondered... (Score:3, Informative)
Other countries also lack the outstanding Interstate Highway System.
Re:i've always wondered... (Score:4, Informative)
Visit NYC sometime. Trains 24/7 that are faster and cheaper than a car or taxi.
Tim
Re:i've always wondered... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:i've always wondered... (Score:5, Informative)
And we do have some long lines, but as you say, they are pretty shitty. But those other countries are much more densely populated and smaller. In the Northeast Amtrak, the commuter railroads and subways make a pretty good approximation of what exists in Europe.
Re:i've always wondered... (Score:2)
Re:i've always wondered... (Score:4, Interesting)
Look at it as if each US state where a single european country, then make a comparison.
Mycroft
High-speed rail (Score:2, Informative)
The full text of this article from The Economist [economist.com] follows. The original content is subscriber-only; it is reproduced here in the hope and expectation that you will find it useful.
----
High-speed rail
Trop peu, trop tard, trop Amtrak
Aug 9th 2001 | CHICAGO
From The Economist print edition
Fast trains may be coming to the mid-west--and stopping too often
THE roads are clogged. The airports are worse. Might fast trains provide relief for America's frustrated travellers? A coalition of nine mid
Re:i've always wondered... (Score:4, Interesting)
I don't thing so. Europe is 3,837,000 Sq. Miles and the US is 3,537,438 Sq. Miles. Europe has a good continent-wide train system. Its just the love of cars that keeps trains from not working in the US.
Re:i've always wondered... (Score:5, Informative)
That statement is misleading as it includes part of Russia.
The European Union, for example, is about 1/3 the size of the continental US, and it has about 150 million more people (1.5 times as many).
That's approximately 4.5 times more people per square-km as the US.
Go to Wyoming some time and tell me that a nationwide mass-transit system is feasable. It's not.
That said, we could do much better. Amtrak is a disaster, and we need more "short-haul" solutions. I can take the bus from my city (Fort Collins, ~100km north of Denver) to Denver, but there is no rail. There should be.
Now, the truth is that it's simply more convenient to drive. Everyone goes ~130kph on the Interstate, and there is rarely any traffic north of Denver, so it only takes about 45 minutes to get to Denver. Compare that to a rail service which would have to be much faster to even compete (to compensate for the time spent getting to the station).
Re:i've always wondered... (Score:3, Informative)
Europe is also fairly populated throughout, meaning that complete coverage is cost-efficient. The US has areas of moderate-to-heavy population surrounded by nothing but miles and miles and miles of farm fields.
Who'd want to take a train to the middle of North Dakota?
Re:i've always wondered... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:i've always wondered... (Score:5, Informative)
In the late 1800s and early 1900s, the US had far and away the largest amount of public transit, larger than any country in europe. In the 19-teens more miles of streetcar track existed in the United States than in the entire rest of the world combined. Inter-city rail was commonly used, and relatively affordable and dependable as compared to many of the nations we currently associate with rail such as Germany or France.
It's hard to identify true root causes, but certainly between the 1920s and the 1950s, american culture and spending patterns had fallen so heavily into the pattern of the automobile, that much of this was lost. Some might point to the american habit of so strongly valuing the new (cf. electricity, plumbing, etc.), while others might talk about our devaluing of the collectivist, thus valuing individual transportation. Still another point of consideration is the ugly side of capitalism, when private industry and infrustructure can sometimes poorly interact. Recent examples include Enron and the California power disaster, historically one can look to rail companies and their self destructive rail non-maintenance habits.
In any event, public transit thrived despite our lack of physical density for a good 60 years, and then died. Perhaps the point could be made that it could no longer successfully compete against private transit in our relatively non-dense environment, but even the bostonwash DC corridor has very poor transit now as compared to history and yet remains rather dense.
The problem is a good deal more complex than you suggest.
Re:i've always wondered... (Score:3, Insightful)
Why is that? Brilliant marketing and lobbying over decades by the auto and airline industries.
Re:i've always wondered... (Score:5, Insightful)
That's the wrong question. You should be asking why we lost the one that we had. At the beginning of the century you could travel to almost anywhere you wanted to go in the US by rail. Little villages all across countryside had passenger rail service, most with multiple stops a day.
Re:i've always wondered... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's A Difference In Population Mass (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm an American currently stationed in Germany and I used to wonder the same thing myself before I got over here. Here's why it won't work the same.
Over here in Europe the populations are clumped together a lot more than in the states. In Germany all the villages are pretty tightly packed. You don't have big yards, many people live in small houses that are right up against the next house or at most has a
It's because of high parking costs (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:a correction to one of your statements (Score:4, Funny)
In other news, new trains in Minnesota (Score:5, Informative)
I took some pictures of the opening here [ringworld.org].
96,000 people tried out the line last weekend during its debut!
Re:In other news, new trains in Minnesota (Score:2)
Well I guess that's one way to test a systems load handling capacity, and as a bonus your smoke detectors.
Mycroft
Re:In other news, new trains in Minnesota (Score:3, Interesting)
Apache::Gallery does caching, so really my box isn't doing too bad. Its all about the B/W though, but my webserver is configured as QBSS queuing on the link -- it should be the 'last' packets out on the pipe.
Re:In other news, new trains in Minnesota (Score:2)
Mycroft
Re:In other news, new trains in Minnesota (Score:2)
That extra rail (Score:2)
I'll add a review (Score:3, Interesting)
-First of all, the tracks are laid right into the street. Not only has it been causing massive traffic congestion but often times the train itself has to wait for traffic lights! They should have elevated it or buried it.
-Stations: There are WAY too many stations. Obviously there was some lobbying going on b
Re:In other news, new trains in Minnesota (Score:3, Interesting)
http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/4826639.
Now the operating costs are far differen't -- I'll admit.
It wasn't money avaliable for a stadium or other costs.
We have insufficient highway infrastructure. Take a look at highway 252 sometime. Anoka County has one of the worst commutes in the nation and the region.
Nobody ever counts the road subsidies (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:In other news, new trains in Minnesota (Score:3, Insightful)
Instead we build a choo choo train! Current cost is $712 million,
Well, a train is infinitely* more useful than a stadium, so why complain? Transportation is part of the government's business, after all, while entertainment isn't. The idea of "creating jobs" never hel
CSI (Score:5, Funny)
University (Score:4, Funny)
Re:University (Score:2)
Limousines and the free market (Score:5, Interesting)
When I went to Florida, I had to catch a plane from Orlando airport, so I caught a bus to 'airport boulevard' - having been told it was near the airport. It was in the middle of nowhere and there was no chance of hailing a cab (even if as a poor student, I could have afforded one), so I walked for 90 minutes in the midday sun until I got to my flight - with 15 minutes to spare.
I had been told I was on the right bus, but there didn't seem to be a bus stop in the entire airport. I was completely incredulous. Is this the reason why?
So much for the free market and consumer choice.
Re:Limousines and the free market (Score:4, Insightful)
If you had planned your route in advance, carefully, instead of just winging it, you might have taken the right bus. For example, I can drive to "University Ave" and be miles away from the actual University.
The cabs aren't there because, as you say, you were in the "middle of nowhere". If this were a cab driver forum, you'd find no sympathy. Plus, if you happened upon a pay phone or thought ahead to bring a cell phone while traveling, you could call a taxi dispatcher. Or lacking a phone number for taxi dispatch, called local directory service (hint: 411 isn't just asking for girls' numbers) and a taxi would come.
In fact, it seems like your case is an excellent example of consumer choice--except you made some pretty naive choices. But since you were a tourist, I suppose it's excusable. Just plan ahead when you travel next time...you're a student, so you should be good at researching these kinds of things!
Anyone who has been to Vegas knows (Score:5, Funny)
In order to get to any of the stations, you'll need to walk through 3 miles of casinos. In order to buy tickets, you'll need to walk through 4 miles of casinos. If you're drunk and gambling, tickets are free.
Useless (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Useless (Score:2)
It's meant for tourists on the Strip. (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, it doesn't get to the airport yet and has yet to cover the entire strip, but it's a start and will be a boon to many who regularly visit Vegas.
Re:It's meant for tourists on the Strip. (Score:3, Informative)
I've just spent a huge amount of time working in Vegas, and I am really annoyed to learn that the monorail will soon open now that I'm gone. I'd have *loved* to had an easy/free way to hop a significant distance up the strip and start exploring again there, as I enjo
Well, this is a first.... (Score:3, Funny)
Sheesh. (Score:2, Funny)
escalator to nowhere still pending (Score:2)
MONO = ONE [snpp.com]
RAIL = RAIL [snpp.com]
~jeff
Semi-OT (Score:2)
I've seen some really cool classic cars from Italy, Germany, and a great old one from the Chicago 'el' train.
Very cool. Great history and better for the environment! Get rid of that awful SUV today!
It's reminding me of my old train set in my parent's basement. Ooh, mu
Don't like the LVMonorail? Build your own! (Score:4, Informative)
Cool!
Re:Don't like the LVMonorail? Build your own! (Score:2)
Connects to the Convention Center (Score:2)
And best of all... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:And best of all... (Score:5, Funny)
"Kaaaaaaaaaaahhn!!!"
Several Responses (Score:3, Interesting)
Responses to several comments here:
Monorail "track" is a lot more expensive to build per foot than light rail. That's the main reason Disney hasn't built any new monorail for a while, even when they moved all the parking a couple blocks away from the Anaheim park entrance.
There's no good way to evacuate an elevated monorail train in an emergency. Somewhere on the net I've read a copy of the procedures for the WDW monorail, which involves helping passengers slide down the curved windshield so they can walk along the beam to the nearest station. Yeah, right.
Say all you want about the lightrail system Los Angeles built. Fact is, it's far more popular than ever anticipated. Yeah, it goes through some pretty scary neighborhoods. But the point is to make it possible for people who live there to get into downtown where the jobs are. It's worked pretty well. And the Metrolink extensions do take some of the commuter burden off the Orange County to LA freeways.
Re:Several Responses (Score:3, Informative)
First off, Disneyland's choice regarding the Disneyland Monorail had nothing to do with cost, or efficiency. It has more to do with Disney's internal pricing policies regarding the two Anaheim parks than anything else. We are actually now hearing that there WILL be extensions to the Disneyland Monorail at some point in the future, but not to the parking structure.. likely to a theoretical "third" park that is still in development.
Secondly, please provide some proof to the claim that Monorail
Re:Several Responses (Score:3, Informative)
In the case of Walt Disney World in Orlando, FL, Disney hasn't built any new track as there's nowhere else to extend the scenic monorail line. MGM Studios, Wild Animal Kingdom, and Blizzard Beach are located adjacent to the two main attractions (the Magic Kingdom and EPCOT), hidden from view only by some trees. The monorail ride to one of these newer attraction
Fully automated? Gack! (Score:2)
"In 2004 the Las Vegas Strip corridor will see the opening of the first totally automated M-VI monorail system."
I sure don't want to be there when somebody gets caught in the crack between the train and the platform . . .
Why? (Score:3, Interesting)
Tim
Re:Why? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Why? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Why? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Why? (Score:3, Informative)
Monorail beamway has a significantly smaller footprint and blocks less sky than traditional elevated two-rail guideway. See pages 14/15 and 38/39 of this PDF [monorails.org] for some pictures. Sorry, a quick google search did not return any web pages with pics.
If you compare it with at-grade two-rail, then the advantage is that an elevated monorail has no road crossings. Of course, this is true of any elevated transit system.
Note that the small beam makes monorail evacuations more difficult than elevated light-rail ev
A Monorail in Las Vegas? (Score:3, Funny)
I dont like the LV monorail (Score:4, Informative)
Second, the cost. I usually go with a group of friends, and if the 5 of us split a cab, it always cost $10 or less total, AND takes us door to door instead of only a few stations WAY at the back of the casinos. This is also 24 hrs a day. The monorail closes at midnight!! Who the hell heads back to their room at midnight in vegas?!
The only advantage the monorail has is a direct route to the convention center. Large conventions could make good use of this, but otherwise, I'd suggest tourists stay away.
Have any of you been to vegas? (Score:5, Informative)
But for the most part vegas gets most of its income now adays from CONVENTION TRAVELERS. Which means that making it easier to get back and fourth to the convention center is always a plus. The stations they have built for this system are really nice and will also help the business traveller
Mass Transit Bring It....!!!! (Score:3, Interesting)
Mass Transit cannot and will not solve all transportation problems. On the other hand it will allow visitors and locals to have a choice of transportation.
Again if your business can't survive a tech revolution... your business is not fit to survive..... simple as that.
Vegas Taxis Severely Inadequate (Score:3, Insightful)
You know, this would be a lot more palatable if the taxi and limo services provided remotely acceptable service. When I'm landing in Vegas I don't give a crap about the $10 - $20 for the cab fare - what I hate is standing in a line of 3,000 people for 45 minutes waiting for a cab. In fact, if there were a line for the cheap monorail and little or no line for the cabs, I would still gladly take the cabs - I'm on my way to meet friends from other cities and I already know I'm going to lose money.
Everyone arrives in Vegas on Friday at 7 PM. The Vegas taxi queue is an impressive one, with 20 or 30 stands, but it's still entirely inadequate. When moving large volumes of people from one fixed point to another fixed point (airport/strip), it's worthwhile looking into systems designed to transit people in mass numbers.
Re:Yipee!!!!! (Score:3, Insightful)
Ummm... huh?
I hope you mean only releasing the source code for those who would like to see it, and not that you want the code developed according to the usual open source models.
Developing a system to control a vehicle carrying people is one thing that, at least i for one think, should be done by a set of well coordinated group of professionals.
Re:Yipee!!!!! (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes, it's "old" 70's (well, really, 50's, as it differs very little from the original Alweg designs that run on Seattle and Anaheim trackage) technology. However, buses are, what, 30's technology? Light rail vehicles, also, are nothing more than the modern version of the 1910's streetcars.
In transit systems, very little changes.. because it dosen't have to. The fundamental job of getting people from one place to another across town is a simple one: it dosen't need maglev. The physics of rubber tires on a concrete "roadway" are well understood. Construction techniques required to build the Las Vegas Monorail are essentially no different than what was needed to build I-215: once you know how to pour concrete, it doesn't matter if you're building a highway for cars or a guideway for a monorail.
Personally, I can't wait. Monorail technology is a good transit solution: clean and quiet, with the potential to be cheap and easily maintained. Hopefully, Las Vegas Monorail will prove out as good as the monorail enthusiasts (like myself) have been saying it will.
Re:Yipee!!!!! (Score:2, Troll)
This is a solution for getting people to and from Casino's to lose more money as quick as possible.
Re:Yipee!!!!! (Score:5, Insightful)
Being as the vast majority of the Las Vegas economy seems to revolve around liberating cash from tourists, looks like a good thing to me.
Besides, that $654 million dollars came entirely from the private sector, through direct financial contributions and bonds. The taxpayers of Clark County aren't paying for it, so why the hell are you bitching?
Re:Yipee!!!!! (Score:3, Insightful)
Governments SHOULD do this type of investing. If they did it correctly, we wouldn't have to pay taxes anymore. My dream is to build the federal treasury to a point where it operates off an annuity with no more income from the people. Granted, this will take a lot of upfront investment by the p
Re:Yipee!!!!! (Score:2)
The SFO airport airrail thing is driverless.
The London Docklands Light Rail is driverless.
Bart Driverless ? (Score:3, Informative)
The trains are computer-controlled and arrive on-time with regular accuracy. Drivers are present in case of unforeseen difficulties.
If you have other information, please correct the wikipedia entry.
-molo
Re:Bart Driverless ? (Score:2)
Re:Bart Driverless ? (Score:5, Informative)
The basic problem was that BART trains were designed so as to be able to detect the presence of another train relatively near ahead on the tracks. I'm not sure what the method used was, whether it was designed to simply detect objects (radar or something similar) or whether trains produced signals that the other trains picked up. Certainly detecting large objects seems insufficient for trains designed to travel at large speeds which must also operate inside tunnels etc. In any event, during hot weather outside, the sensors would have false-positive problems, detecting trains that did not exist, and would refuse to continue. To limp past this problem, drivers were necessary to take over the role of choosing when it was no longer safe to advance. By default the trains still operated autonomously in most other ways.
Casual observation indicates a number of issues with the trains are apparently mildly driver-operated. Trains which are less than full length seem to have their stop position adjusted by the 'driver' (sometimes very ineptly). The 'driver' sometimes adjusts stop times, which is quite useful for rush hour or event-related crowds, although I sometimes wish it was pre-set so people would board more efficiently. Also it seems the 'driver' has some possibility to affect train speed, as there have definitely been cases where a change of driver just north of Union City resulted in a much changed rate of progress for the duration of the trip, although I suspect this input is optional, and infrequently used.
Certainly the BART train console is relatively elaborate, but after the manner of a point-of-sale terminal, with several print-insert buttons and no visible analog inputs of any sort. When I have watched bart train 'drivers', I have certainly seen entire station-to-station journeys made with no input at all.
Re:Yipee!!!!! (Score:2, Interesting)
SFO Airport SkyTrain is not, technical
Re:Yipee!!!!! (Score:2)
They could have asked the people who did the London Docklands Light Rail system. They seem to have a functioning driverless system.
But what could a bunch of Europeans teach Mighty America, right?
Re:Yipee!!!!! (Score:2, Interesting)
"Driverless" is an important test concept on the Las Vegas Monorail not because it couldn't "theoretically" be done in the US (many systems, like SF-MUNI, BART, the Chicago "El", and the LA Metro Red Line are fully or partially automated). Questions of liability prevent many systems from operating "driverless." Concerns of organized labor (this was BART's problem) pr
Re:Yipee!!!!! (Score:5, Interesting)
Not exactly a rail system, but the PRT [wvu.edu] that services WVU in Morgantown, WV., has been running for about 30 years now. Driverless, electrically driven cars with rubber tires on a concrete track, powered from a 3rd rail. The tracks are steam-heated in winter. It was a pork-barrel Rockefeller project from day one, and most likely sucks up great piles of federal funds to this day. Being prone to breakdowns, the University still had to keep buses & drivers on constant standby to shuttle students between the two spread-out campuses.
I remember news stories when I was attending college there in the late 70's about how stray dogs would occasionaly manage to get onto the track. The PRT cars, being computer controlled, would soon overtake and squish the pooches without even slowing down, while the passengers watched the whole thing, unable to do anything about it.
Re:Yipee!!!!! (Score:4, Funny)
Oh, everything's stolen nowadays. Why, the fax machine is nothing but a waffle iron with a phone attached.
(I can't believe I managed to use a relevent Simpson's quote in a story on monorails without refering to the monorail episode.)
Re:Yipee!!!!! (Score:3, Insightful)
Do you even know how maglev works? Why on earth would you think that maglev would be
a: efficient
b: affordable
or c: even doable in a 4 mile stretch?
"Oooh!. Maglev! Let's do that!" Try to get beyond the buzzwords.
Re:Yipee!!!!! (Score:2)
Ya know, for a 70's-era invention, this TCP/IP thing is sure getting a lot of attention on slashdot.
Re:Yipee!!!!! (Score:2, Funny)
Agreed. If this was OSS, we could all test this on our own Monorail test beds we have at home!
*ahem* (Score:2)