BitTorrent Beats Kazaa In Traffic Numbers 348
prostoalex writes "CacheLogic attempted to measure the peer-to-peer network traffic by installing their network monitoring tools in data centers of large ISPs. The results are in, and Bram Cohen's BitTorrent overtook Kazaa's FastTrack network. BitTorrent traffic amounted to 53% of all peer-to-peer traffic, according to CacheLogic. It's worth noting, though, that Kazaa traffic is highly seasonal, as a lot of high-schoolers and college students are simply on vacation this time of year."
Seasonal Traffic (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Seasonal Traffic (Score:2, Funny)
Oops, small typo. Should read getting off.
Re:Seasonal Traffic (Score:3, Insightful)
No, that's why their traffic jumps during the winter. He was referring to why it drops in the summer.
Re:Seasonal Traffic (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Seasonal Traffic (Score:2, Funny)
I'm sure they held firm, even rose slightly.
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
How can they accurately measure it? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:How can they accurately measure it? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:How can they accurately measure it? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:How can they accurately measure it? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:How can they accurately measure it? (Score:2, Insightful)
"CacheLogic attempted to measure the peer-to-peer network traffic by installing their network monitoring tools in data centers of large ISPs.".
No matter how decentralized a peer to peer network is, everyone still has to go through their ISP, and the bigger ISPs would cover a good percentage of all P2P users.
Re:How can they accurately measure it? (Score:5, Interesting)
Glad you asked.
The company I work for, FreePeers Inc, faced this same problem about 2 years ago.
At that time, I invented a statistics gathering scheme that took full advantage of the decentralized nature of p2p networks.
Previously, the client/server scheme was superimposed upon networks (see Limewire's network crawler, for instance, which contacts every node it can to count them).
My invention takes advantage of the nature of the network itself as a routing/aggregation tool to gather statistics for me,and let the results "ebb" thier way to our collector.
See the public results here [bearshare.com].
Interesting to note is that we are running our aggregator node on a cable modem, and yet still get "round trip times" for measuring stats on the whole network of 5 minutes. This could even be reduced to about 2 minutes for our current network size.
In any case, the problem you describe (central counting of decentralized p2p info, such as network count or bytes transferred in a given time) is solved, and our company is awaiting a patent on it.
It does work well. We are running the aggregator on a 256Kbps cable modem (as I said above) but the BW usage is so rediculously low that it could be run on a dialup 56k modem, if only we had any in our office! With it we can accurately collect lots of good statistics about our network, and update it every 5 mins.
Each of those graphs in the linked to page [bearshare.com] is clickable, and will show more details.
-dave-
Use BearShare [bearshare.com] for all your p2p needs.
Re:How can they accurately measure it? (Score:5, Interesting)
Doesn't bearshare still have spyware embedded?
From a quick google search
http://www.oit.duke.edu/ats/support/spyware/bearsh are.html
Re:How can they accurately measure it? (Score:3, Informative)
Not to mention they're pretty upfront about it. Guy's gotta make a few bucks somehow, and Bearshare has been rock solid (thanks Dave). Wouldn't use anything else for general P2P.
Re:How can they accurately measure it? (Score:3, Informative)
Has he removed this obvious spyware in favor of a less intrusive money making model?
Re:How can they accurately measure it? (Score:5, Informative)
It would be interesting... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:It would be interesting... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:It would be interesting... (Score:2)
Sure. Although it's worth pointing out that P2P clients like Kazaa are some of the top places for distributing "funny" and "cute" videos like "grandma gets carried away by dog" or "monkey smells his butt". As far as I'm aware, most of these files lack any formal copyright protection an
Re:It would be interesting... (Score:2)
Just thought I'd point out that there's no longer a concept of "lack of formal copyright protection."
As of 1989 (year of the Berne Convention), once you create something, you have its copyright until its term expires or you formally relinquish it (even then, in Europe you retain certain "natural rights" to your work).
But practically speaking you're right; it's highly doubtful that the copyright owners of the "cute" videos care or have the resources to pursue violators. Most normal people appreciate the ex
Re:It would be interesting... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:It would be interesting... (Score:2)
Re:It would be interesting... (Score:2)
From what I've seen, I'd say it's about 99.9% infringing content, and 0.1% non-infringing, whether you go by instance or byte-count. Even when you factor in the other "legit" BitTorrent sites, like scarywater's anime [scarywater.net], the overall ratio probably won't change much.
The amount of GPL'd and other open content [slashdot.org] is increasing, though. Slowly.
--
Re:It would be interesting... (Score:5, Informative)
Sites who do legit torrents usually have their own trackers, since setting up a tracker isn't a very large effort if you already have a site of your own and easily worth the control and overview it gets you. And on the other hand, individuals who do not have a site to spread torrents with rarely do legit torrents.
Of course this is all backed up by no evidence at all.
While I'm at it, there are several numbers that would be interesting to look at: The relative usage of the various P2P protocols - this is what TFA talks about. This is something you can probably determine fairly well by only looking at the port ranges involved. The percentage of legal traffic compared to the illegal traffic - ie what we've just been talking about. This is extremely difficult and most likely impossible to find out at the backbone level.
What I'm interested in is the percentage of the total bandwidth P2P makes up these days. Imagine if something like a third of the total ISP bandwidth is consumed by P2P file sharing - then consider that nearly all of it is illegal. At that point the currently practiced stance on copyright violation is just shown to be absurd: either DO something against it, enforce the laws you already have instead of inventing moronic new ones, or come to terms with a reality that probably won't go away any time soon.
Re:It would be interesting... (Score:5, Funny)
Yes, BitTorrent is probably used for a hundred times more legitimate traffic. 0.1% as opposed to 0.001%.
But seriously... I can't remember when I last downloaded a distro on cds. Will we see netinstalls using bittorrent soon?
I'm betting it's much more (Score:4, Insightful)
1) Make people wait in line (which they hate).
2) Have ass-slow transfers (which people also hate).
3) Use BT so people help each other and a 2x increase in people equals a very small slowdown in overall transfer rate.
It really just makes sense as a protocol. You go to download something, the server contributes as much as it can, and clients pick up as much extra slack as they can. Only for the file you download, while you leave it on, so no "eating up the connection all the time" problems. If onyl one person downloads, well no net gain or loss for client or server. However with each additonal person downloading, rather than the server having to share it's bandwidth more and more, the clients help each other and the thransfer rate stays much more constant.
Hence why it has so much legit appeal. I really hope that the major browser makers start including BT in their browsers. They do that, and if it gets modified to run on the webserver directly, I imagine it could become the predominant file transfer protocol for mass distribution.
Get real (Score:2)
Just because some Linux distros use it doesn't mean anything. I guarantee there is a lot more illegimate traffic going on than legit Linux distro traffic. Linux distros are not THAT widespread. There are a hell of a lot more people pirating music and movies than sharing the latest Slackware. Just saying.
Re:It would be interesting... (Score:2)
The RIAA has played dirty tricks enough that I know I'll never put a check mark next to, "Do you use peer-to-peer file sharing software?" let alone next to "Do you use peer-to-peer file sharing software for illegal purposes?"
Re:It would be interesting... (Score:2)
It's still copyright infringement, since porn is owned by the producers, but for some reason there is no outcry from the porn industry when people steal their stuff. I wonder why that is.
Re:It would be interesting... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:It would be interesting... (Score:3, Insightful)
Of course. But I am also aware that many of them contain legal files as well. Examples of legal files include:
Linux Distros
FreeBSD Distros
Independent Movies (e.g. The recent Star Trek "reimagining")
Public Domain or Free Books (it's becoming especially popular to give away very old technical books)
Shareware Programs
BitTorrent Clients (I kind of get a kick out of this myself)
Re:It would be interesting... (Score:4, Insightful)
I realize that BT is used to distribute a lot of questionable, if not infringing content but the same is true for cars. My point is, there are very few, if any, third parties (ie. non-users) that use the FastTrack network to distribute their products. There are, however, quite a few that seem to use the BT protocol.
Kids are such slackers (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Kids are such slackers (Score:2)
Well shit. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Well shit. (Score:5, Insightful)
You should know by now that they certainly will, if they could show that ftp was ever used for music piracy they'd go after ftp servers, too. You're concerned that cow actually cares where it takes a dump?
They do (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Well shit. (Score:2)
Re:Well shit. (Score:3, Informative)
Put up a freenet node and keep it running if you want to share things without having to worry about idiots on the network ruining it for you.
That said, I've never gotten freenet to work quite right and just recently removed it again in frustration.
Re:Well shit. (Score:2)
That has nothing to do with Java and everything to do with Freenet's code. Freenet chose Java because it was secure (no buffer overflows), cross platform, and to prevent exactly what you're describing: memory leaks. The problem is that memory leaks can happen in Java as well, they just manifest as object leaks
Re:Well shit. (Score:2)
Re:Well shit. (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Well shit. (Score:3, Insightful)
Kazaa was designed and marketed from the get go as a way to share music and software among users. I don't recall anybody ever using it for their product distribution.
It's much easier to argue that a system has legal uses if you can provide concrete examples.
It seems to me that napster's, kazaa's, etc biggest hurdle was not argui
This just might be "the one"... (Score:5, Insightful)
Which is precisely why BT stands to legitimize open-structure p2p networks forever.
Napster really had no legitimate use. I mean, did you *ever* download a song from Napster that wasn't a bootleg? Neither did anybody else.
Kazaa also has very limited legitimate use. Other than renaming an encrypted tar file "Wild Donkeys do hot chicks.mpg" and using it as a backup vehicle, its use as a bona-fide legal distribution channel is pretty limited.
However, BT is different. There are plenty of BT users distributing bootleg movies, songs, and pr0n, but there are also plenty of sites using it to distribute legitimate demos, patches, ISO images, and other large files.
To think that BT allows somebody on a T1 to serve near an OC3 worth of bandwidth by distributing the load is just incredible. I don't think the industry would be willing to give up that advantage without a fight.
Too Late (Score:2)
Re:Well shit. (Score:2)
Yes [blizzard.com] indeed [telascience.org], not only to distribute Linux ISO's which is a common example, but BT usage is popping up all over the place, so I really hope they won't block the protocol at ISP level or try to make the software itself illegal. But then there's those loons [wired.com] that try to illegalize the whole thing, so you never know.
Re:Well shit. (Score:2)
Seasonal Traffic Results (Score:3, Insightful)
There's a certain legitimacy with BitTorrent (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:There's a certain legitimacy with BitTorrent (Score:2)
Great, Slashdot.... (Score:5, Funny)
I'd assume BitTorrent is seasonal Too (Score:5, Insightful)
And BitTorrent traffic isn't seasonal?
Re:I'd assume BitTorrent is seasonal Too (Score:2)
Also, I could see the two sort of cancelling each other out (although I'd be willing to bet the college student's University has a bigger pipe than the high schooler's parent's cable modem). In the summer, I would imagine high schooler P2P use goes up and then decrease during the school year. In the non-summer months, I would think the college student use would go up during the school year and decrease during the sum
Bit Torent (Score:5, Interesting)
The only thing that needs to be improved with bit torrent is a merger of all the small tracker sites into one big site where you can hook on to any torrent out there. Suprnova.org is getting there but still, more momentum needs to be developed.
That being said, the best thing about the bit torrent technology is that it's almost impossible for the RIAA to control it. The cat is out of the bag and theres no way it will be pushed back in.
Re:Bit Torent (Score:2)
WinMX is a decent compromise between Kazaa and BitTorrent. People with partial downloads can still upload the part they have so it has that benefit of BitTorrent, but also has t
Re:Bit Torent (Score:2)
The natural upside to this is that fewer people will share big directories of mp3's using BitTorrent.
Re:Bit Torent (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Bit Torent (Score:3, Interesting)
No, that doesn't fit with BitTorrents' (or rather, its creator's) stated aims. BitTorrent was not designed to replace P2P networks, but rather to allow the efficient downloading of a single file. BitTorrent is not designed to be hooked together into a massive netwo
would be nice to see some detailed stats (Score:2, Interesting)
Also is this some kind of silent protest against gator style spyware embedded in Kazaa?
Or as RIAA tactics target one section of users using a particular P2P network (sic), they shift alleigances to another?
CNET article is nice but typically lacking on details...
Not all bittorent is warez (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Not all bittorent is warez (Score:2)
Absolutely....... (Score:2)
Like a good lad, I kept my client open for a further 12 hours to help the torrent reach more users.
MPAA monitors BitTorrent traffic (Score:5, Informative)
Re:MPAA monitors BitTorrent traffic (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:MPAA monitors BitTorrent traffic (Score:4, Informative)
When you click on a link to download a torrent you download the
Even if the MPAA monitored the
-josh
Re:MPAA monitors BitTorrent traffic (Score:4, Informative)
Re:MPAA monitors BitTorrent traffic (Score:5, Informative)
Source for .torrents? (Score:5, Insightful)
Does anyone else know of a good database of torrents? RSS Feeds? Websites?
Re:Source for .torrents? (Score:5, Informative)
Disturbing (Score:5, Insightful)
If CacheLogic, then why not the RIAA?
If monitoring, then why not outright blocking?
Is that a slope, or a Slip-and-Slide[tm], ahead of me?
Re:Disturbing (Score:2)
Re:Disturbing (Score:2)
Re:Disturbing (Score:2)
Re:Disturbing (Score:3, Interesting)
You want to blow this? (Score:5, Funny)
keep it on the dl
Re:You want to blow this? (Score:3, Interesting)
"It's kinda like Kazaa, but way cooler" the young pre-pimply punk in the orange hawaiian shirt said.
"Yeah, cooler", said his little brother, wearing an equally tacky spider-man shirt.
"Oh, F***!" I said.
There goes t
Peer to Peer? (Score:2)
If you don't think that SMTP is P2P, why is that? Because there's no content theft (FUD) going on?
Re:Peer to Peer? (Score:2)
http://www.telecomm.uh.edu/toptalkers_smtp.html [uh.edu] gives a (currently) 23 MB transfered per 5 minutes, for a university (at 6pm local). That's, what, one BitTorrent connection?
On the peer to peer or otherwise of SMTP: Peer to peer implies that the cost of transfer/storage is mitigated by the number of people on the network. That's a modern viewpoint, but i
same book, same cover, same price (Score:5, Funny)
Well, of course they do! (Score:2)
Re:same book, same cover, same price (Score:3, Funny)
People, people, people... The RIAA and MPAA look to slashdot to find out which file sharing systems to target next.
I'd also like to add that nobody here should mention the fact that you can Google for nearly every single torrent listing site in existance. Nor that
Let's keep this one to ourselves, shall we?
And in other news.... (Score:5, Funny)
"We just don't know what is going on" said the CEO of Claria.
Who needs it (Score:5, Informative)
Direct Connect? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Direct Connect? (Score:5, Informative)
Now, this is just my view (which, surprisingly, might not have any basis on reality...), but i've observed that DC tends to be more "regional" and "communal" for a couple of reasons...
DC hubs don't scale well (at least the software that i know of), 1000-1500 users per hub seems to be the maximum, therefore hubs tend to be more private, usually, and anyone can start a hub. Plus most of the hubs i frequent have some restrictions on user population (for example, amount and types of files shared)
There's a couple of DC hubs in my local area that allow only local people to connect and people look for stuff there first, and then resort to other methods (bittorrent, ftp, kazaa etc.). The ISP knows of the existence of these hubs, but seems to look away, since it keeps the traffic to the outside world down. The pattern seems to pop up on many campus LANs as well. And yes, there's legal stuff in there as well (*gasp!*), a quick search shows the ISOs for all the major linux distros.
Maybe that's why... anyone can get to kazaa or use bittorrent, but dc hubs seem to be more restricted
P2P, Bit Torrent, Kazaa, DC++, Open Source (Score:4, Interesting)
The various bits are there scattered across different p2p networks. IMNSHO, all p2p networks/clients ought to have:
-Swarming (as defined/used in BitTorrent)
-Privacy/anonymity (perhaps as much as in Freenet)
-Good searching (Kazaa, Napster, those types. With room for improvement all around)
-Open-source clients with no ads/spyware
-Decentralized/self-organizing networks (no central point of failure, or at least minimal)
-Browser/web server hooks to autoswarm web content (there ought to be bittorrent:// links)
Pardon my BitTorrent bias. I moderate the bittorrent_help mailing list, so I have more exposure to that.
All these features should someday be pushed into numerous language libraries, so that they become ubiquitous.
P2P vs direct download?? (Score:3, Interesting)
I've never been unable to get a demo I wanted from a legitimate source.
I don't download pirate videos or music.
I've d/l linux distros direct or at distro sites with no problem.
So, in a short answer, why is using a P2P client sooo much better? From the consumer side that is?
I've read the info at the Bittorrent site.
And just to ask my fellow Sd folks...how safe is it?
Thanks and be well!
Re:P2P vs direct download?? (Score:3, Informative)
From a user standpoint, it's "http, but vastly more scalable". It doesn't do file searching or anything like that. It just distributes load among all people downloading a file.
Re:P2P vs direct download?? (Score:3, Informative)
For one, there's less load on the server(s). As long as the Tracker doesn't go under then mass popularity won't swamp the server, as quickly more and more of the downloaders can pick up the slack by offering up the chunks they already have.
If you can't get it down in one go, or something necessitates a reboot halfway through your Linux ISO set, it will always resume.
Heck, if the computer crashes then res
Bittorrent beats Kazaa even more... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:A bit misleading.... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:A bit misleading.... (Score:2)
Re:A bit misleading.... (Score:2)
A couple of other things I've noticed with BT. One is that if I have a second torrent running, it often won't get any remote connections, suggesting that the first torrent is taking all my available ports.
Another is that sometimes the tracker
Re:A bit misleading.... (Score:2)
Re:A bit misleading.... (Score:2)
Perhaps my 'taste' in torrents means a high volume of newbs join but never finish or get enough to make a significant contribution, thus drain. Perhaps my 'style' of torrents are sourced on a saturated connection preventing efficient all
Re:Seasonality (Score:4, Informative)
If we assume that kids have no interest in linux distros and other legitimate P2P uses and are dependent on P2P for copyrighted materials, then when kids are not online the majority of stuff that is still downloaded via P2P will be legitimate materials.
Since there are not many legitimate materials to download from kazaa, bittorent will come out ahead.
Re:Ya but... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Kazaa is dying slowly... (Score:2)
DC is well over 8.8PB, btw. I don't remember how high they are but it's quite nuts.
I just can't wait until... (Score:2)
Re:and this story made slashdot because? (Score:3, Funny)
Yes, that's true. Only for the vast majority of the human race.